Analyst prediction du jour: First webOS tablet to ship in March? | webOS Nation
 
 

Analyst prediction du jour: First webOS tablet to ship in March? 106

by Jonathan I Ezor#IM Tue, 14 Dec 2010 11:09 am EST

While we're not fond of reporting what every analyst says, lately there's so few out there that even remember that webOS exists so we're duly reporting this one via Forbes. According to BMO Capital Markets analyst Keith Bachman, HP will ship its first webOS tablet in March 2011. Bachman's information comes from a recent trip he and his BMO colleagues took to Asia, where they met with "more than 30 tech-related companies."

According to Forbes, Bachman isn't "overly optimistic" about the webOS tablet and its share of the 40 million worldwide tablet sales that BMO expects for 2011.

Source: Forbes (Thanks to tasogare in our forum for the heads up!)

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106 Comments

The successful tablets will be those that have supporting phone models so that people can enjoy a good and familiar experience. This, of course, rules out WebOS.

Lets Hope So ..

Dear Hp ,
All I Want Christmas or Valentines Day Is A New Webos Phone.. Pretty Please
- D33P

I hope this guy is wrong as the Palmpad needs to roll out far sooner after CES to jump the iPad rev and the Blackberry pad. OTOH, I could see a late Janurary, early Feburary intoduction of Palm superphones influencing a delay of the Palmpad.

high hopes.... I just hope they don't get crushed

+1 . Merry late christmas to me.

it's starting to look like HP was better off buying a billion dollars worth of McDonalds.

Blah.

I'll be in line to buy one regardless who or how it's released. And if there is a new phone in the mix... it's going to be an expensive first quarter of 2011.

Sorry to be a negative Nancy, but there will not be a line at any store to buy these. Does HP really think these will be successful without a strong app market?

who knows. HP may actually be smarter then that. But the most of the people that get to interview them and the fanboys are not. And thus, they never pose that question when they get interveiws. They ask broad developer or tech geek questions about stuff like the sdk or ares or stacks or something else that isn't going to get regular people buying a device.

haha, i dont blame the guy for not being overly enthusiastic about the tablet, why would he? there's going to be a ridiculous amount of competition in 2011, that it's really going to be hard to stand out. oh apple ipad 2? yep. android tablets running honeycomb, mhm. windows taking another stab at tablets, yes, they'll be there. RIM is coming out with one too?? yeah.

good luck Palm. im expecting your tablet to heal people.

who cares how good the tablet is if there are no apps to run on it?

I love our OS and am anxiously waiting for this however, it is true. There is no way this can succeed unless there are many, new and improved apps, Netflix, Google Earth, ESPN, and more, and more and more.

Yep, also without a good mobile office product it will be tough to make it.

I know for a fact it will be released somewhere in the coming months... so that may be March, but that may be September just as well.

I'm actually in doubt whether we will see any glimpse of this PalmPad at all at CES. We're only a few weeks away and I would assume HP should have sent out some appetiser invitations shouldn't they. Didn't Palm do something like that before the announcement of the Pre at CES 2009?

Sure, there will be tons of tablets in 2011...most "clone" Android tabs on blah hardware and not even running Froyo much less the "tab optimized" Gingerbread.

iPad2? Sure, one "minor spec bump" coming up. Cameras? Yep. Proper multitasking? Nope. Flash. Not a chance. But I will really enjoy seeing all the iPad buyers flock to the two thus proving that followers of the fruit will rebuy their same products over and over again. Jobs really is an evil genius.

HP needs to worry about the GTab and the BB Pad for now, esp the BB Pad since they have shamelessly copied Palms IP.

Maybe that's what they're doing (just hoping). They've seen the PlayBook and thought. Wow, we can't match that, let's revisit the PalmPad and make it more competitive, hence the lack of leaks and annoucements...

I agree- too many crappy clone androids will flood the market in 2011 which will not be optimized. Google doesn't care but consumer will be confused by the android experiences which will range from good to crappy.
HP will sell some palmpads through its enterprise channels which no consumers think about.
HP only wanted its own os so it could control its own destiny. It isn't thinking in terms of months like all of us.

I don't think anyone cares about Flash on mobile anymore. It doesn't make sense because it doesn't work well because it's not optimized to be running on those kinds of devices. Why should Apple bend and break? And sure, you can probably decipher Apple's secret and complex marketing schemes where they release new products every so often. Who doesn't do that? They make money, people buy it, thats the point of it. Look at Apple's rising stock price and let me know if there is anything wrong with their 'evil' strategy. if they are following through with bigger and better products every time, why not give the opportunity for people to upgrade. proper multitasking doesn't exist yet on mobile devices. pre can do it, but it cant handle it. apple does it, and only does it so that it works with what they are giving us. sometimes its better to do things right and have it be great, rather than doing it first and having it be underwhelming.

seriously. Apple has their impregnable customer base... For now anyway. The Palmpad needs to go after all the other tablets out there. Hp|palm has already stated their not in it to compete with Apple. But they can definitely stand out against the rest, especially the Playbook.

I bet you were one of those who said the iPad was just a big iPod touch that only iSheep would buy. What a difference a few months makes. The iPad KIRF with wOS from HP should come out just in time to get CRUSHED by the next iPad. I can hardly wait. :)

The iPod is just a giant iPod touch but apparently, that's what the iSheep want. The iPad 2 will be out long before the HPad (or whatever they will call it) and yes, without apps, who's going to want an HPad when they can get the iPad 2 and have millions of apps? A tablet is useless without apps. who's going to write for the HPad? How many developers have bailed on Web OS already? How many more will bail before March?

Have you ever played with an iPad?

I HATE Apple.
I will NEVER own an Apple product.

However, I sat there with my girlfriend playing with the iPad for over and hour at best buy.

That is a SWEET device.

I can only hope that Android gets tablets that compare.
[Because I have given up on WebOS and also because WebOS doesn't have the devs to support it via apps]

Dude, cobrakon, it helps to actually know what you're talking about before speaking.

All Android tablets will be running Honeycomb, likely Q1, this upcoming year.

Honeycomb is the Android optimized version for tablets.

The amount of Android Devs that will build Tablet based apps are going to be ridiculous.

Android will, very likely, own the entire Tablet market by the end of next year.

Sure Matty, because everybody knows that as soon as Google releases a new version of Android it quickly finds its way to all Android powered devices.

I mean there aren't any devices out there running 1.5 or 1.6 right? All those new state of the art Android devices, like the Epic for example, are running 2.2? Oh, wait, no they aren't.

I don't care for the iPad, too many missing features. But Android's history of multiple versions does not bode well for tablet buyers.

I'm really sick of people on precentral that comment on things like this when they just don't get it/don't know what they're talking about.

First of all, it is not Google's fault that devices don't get upgrades, it's the manufacturer fault.

Secondly, there are only a few devices that are running 1.5/1.6 and those are devices that have WORSE specs than the ORIGINAL PRE [and therefore can barely run 1.5/1.6 much less 2.1/2.2.

Third, it is almost a 100% certainty that manufacturers WILL update to Honeycomb because that is the Android version that will actually be good for tablets, unlike previous versions.

Finally, the only reason that the Epic hasn't received 2.2 officially is because Samsung is slllloowwww when it comes to actually doing anything software.
However, it WILL get 2.3. They probably didn't do 2.2 for the Epic because they knew that only a few months after the release of the Epic, 2.3 was coming out.

Just wait till CES!! Then the Great Pumpkin will deliver Web Os to everyone who believes. March seems a lot late to get into the tablet game with a struggling Os. It seems like hp and palm are trying to kill web Os. What a shame!

Funny that you mention that. I was thinking the same thing. Release a spec bumped Pre that no current Pre user wants (accept for the 4 fan boys left). Don't release it in the USA and especially on Sprint, where it's likely to be bought by many original Pre owners. No. Release it in France and perhaps Canada. Talk about releasing WebOS 2.0 to the us customers "in the coming months". No buzz. No leaks. No facts to support doing anything with Smartphones. Not even a leak about tablets. Nothing. They want to kill Palm in the eyes of the public. I think it's working.

HP Palm pad released in March? Sure. Wishful thinking. Released in "The Coming Months", would be more accurate. By then, the BB Playbook, the iPad 2 and various Android Tabs will have already shipped and made a joke of whatever HP does.

Wow, March (maybe even LATER in the year since it's just a rumor)

This is pathetic.
Whomever thought that HP was a good buyer for Palm, and I'll admit that in the beginning I thought they were too, is a retard.

Hp clearly is just Palm with more money.
No idea how to do anything right.

You're honestly gonna wait another FOUR MONTHS before releasing a tablet?

Wow.

R.I.P. WebOS.

Here is my prediction of the 2011 product launches.

January = Release of Pre2 / Pixi 2

March = Release of PalmPad

May/June = Release of larger phone w/ landscape keyboard

October/November = Release of larger touch screen device phone & a wifi only version of the same thing.

-jmho

If that happens then,
December = the end of WebOS as Android will have released 50 tablets, across all the countries Android is in and every carrier, and 150 more phones released in that time-frame providing every type of user with the variety they desire. [both numbers are probably conservative]

It won't die unless Palm releases a long series of terrible products. At this point for Palm, doing nothing is much better than doing the wrong thing. They should take the time to do enough research to make sure that the next "new" product is great. They should expect to gain traction in late 2011 / early 2012. HP|Palm needs to ensure that they have a solid foundation to build on. They have time. OTOH only you can determine how much time you have to wait for a phone.

Dude, I understand what you're saying but that should have been happening the last two years.

Palm marketshare [that's Webos AND PalmOS] is 1.3% now.

It can't get much worse because any worse would be completely out of the market and if what you just said is in anyway accurate, that's EXACTLY what is going to happen.

You know what I fear?
I fear that what you said is an OVERESTIMATE of what's going to happen.

HP doing nothing = watching everyone pass them by. Even Windows Phone is outselling Palm products. HPalm's 1.3% marketshare isn't increasing at all. It's decreasing while HP does nothing. Consumers are bailing to Android, Apple, BB, and Windows Phone. Developers are bailing because they don't know if the dwindling marketshare of Palm doesn't offer them anything, whereas Android, Apple, BB, and Windows Phone do. Doing nothing will cause the marketshare to dwindle to nothing. You really think someone who has an EVO 4G or a MyTouch 4G can be lured to any Palm phone when the app market is shrinking and the market share is dwindling?

I honestly think what I posted up a half page or so...


Begin quote...

"Wow, March (maybe even LATER in the year since it's just a rumor)

This is pathetic.
Whomever thought that HP was a good buyer for Palm, and I'll admit that in the beginning I thought they were too, is a retard.

Hp clearly is just Palm with more money.
No idea how to do anything right.

You're honestly gonna wait another FOUR MONTHS before releasing a tablet?

Wow.

R.I.P. WebOS.

By Mattykinsx on Tue, 14 Dec edit reply"

webOS is becoming our religion... ALL WE HAVE LEFT IS FAITH! Lol *sigh*

Very disappointing if this is accurate. I was willing to wait until January or even February to see what the PalmPad might bring to the table before deciding between the plethora of tablets that will be out there. But I will not wait for March for my first pad purchase, and I will not buy another pad after that first purchase for at least two years, if not longer.

Not only must HP/Palm compete in the OS (WebOS is my favorite by far, although iOS4 is close behind), not only must they compete on hardware (seriously the android tablets feel and look cheap; the iPad--very nice), but they MUST compete timely.

Well, I have another 1.4 years to wait before I will upgrade my phone. Maybe by then they'll have something truly webOS amazing. Or webOS and I are probably, sadly, done.

flash is becoming a non issue with html 5.0 specification.

if it can do more than the ipad (input/outputs like usb, hdmi etc) and have cameras and options to shoot pictures, video, and the like along with pairing external keyboard and run office type applications, it may do well.

The Palmpad must offer a unique feature set over the competition to be successful. It's also got to have awesome internals and quality build.

I don't think anyone cares about Flash on mobile anymore. It doesn't make sense because it doesn't work well because it's not optimized to be running on those kinds of devices. Why should Apple bend and break? And sure, you can probably decipher Apple's secret and complex marketing schemes where they release new products every so often. Who doesn't do that? They make money, people buy it, thats the point of it. Look at Apple's rising stock price and let me know if there is anything wrong with their 'evil' strategy. if they are following through with bigger and better products every time, why not give the opportunity for people to upgrade. proper multitasking doesn't exist yet on mobile devices. pre can do it, but it cant handle it. apple does it, and only does it so that it works with what they are giving us. sometimes its better to do things right and have it be great, rather than doing it first and having it be underwhelming.



I couldn't care less about flash on my phone, but on a ten inch screen which is mean to be used to watch video? You bet I care. I live in the UK, try the BBC website without it. I have an ipad, and I like it, but the flash is certainly an issue.

Apples stock price is due to more than their incremental upgrades. It's a running joke even amongst their most loyal followers. They do hold back, then add a little, then a little more. It does piss some people off, it drove me away from the iphone when I bought a 3GS and realised I'd been sold the same phone twice. Try and be a little objective.

Proper tasking doesn't exist yet? The multitasking in web OS is near perfect, and it doesn't slow one iota on a Pre 2, I've had one for the last two weeks. The multitasking on the iphone and ipad is a disaster, pissing about double clicking and basically just having a carousel of the items that are on your desktop. It's a nonsense, and everyone bought Jobs' spiel about "prioritising apps" and "save states". Be serious, it's clunky, totally unintuitive and a mess. I would bet my life Apple would kill for webOS multitasking, but Jobs couldn't bring himself to copy it so readily.

I am a longtime mac user, I have three at home, I have an ipad, I used to have an iphone, but the pre and webOS os the best phone for me, I dont need to bash the iphone to make it feel better, it has the best multitasking, best all round integration of services and best PIM available. Try organising your day or getting 200 mails on an iphone, it's a nightmare. Watching videos and farting about on the web? Perfect. Doing some work? Disaster.

concur with the comment about being timely. Granted the acq of palm by hp has wrinkled the timeline... Bottom line is -once- they get back in the smartphone game, and subsequently the tablet game, they will have to deliver blockbuster products in order to generate industry buzz and attract new customers to the holy grail of mobile operating systems: webos.

everyone knows what an iphone is.

everyone knows what windows is.

everyone knows what google is.

... In terms of phones: this is the battle that must be waged.

hahahaha I am not really into this speculation stuff anymore.. HP/Palm is moving about as fast as dial up internet while everyone else is using broadband...

however if the webOS pad comes out I'll probally get one if it's similar specs to either the iPad or Galaxy Tab. True multitasking on a tablet intrigues me.

blah blah blah. Call me when HP actually says anything if that ever happens.

The only thing coming out of HP is "In the coming months". They aren't saying anything that's inspiring anyone to not bail on them. And Rubinstein is about as inspiring as black board chalk.

Agreed. I love webOS but it feels as if Palm/HP is daring me to leave. I hope CES brings some good news/products because it's getting harder and harder to hang on.

concur with the comment about being timely. Granted the acq of palm by hp has wrinkled the timeline... Bottom line is -once- they get back in the smartphone game, and subsequently the tablet game, they will have to deliver blockbuster products in order to generate industry buzz and attract new customers to the holy grail of mobile operating systems: webos.

everyone knows what an iphone is.

everyone knows what windows is.

everyone knows what google is.

... In terms of phones: this is the battle that must be waged.

Hm, I wonder what is going on at androidcentral.com?

About 25 posts a day on a slow day of new apps, new confirmed news, new phones new tablets new new new new...

Nice!

Need a word document app or an ebook reader app for a pad!

Also it need 2 cameras. Picture editing.. Just everything the iPad does plus real multitasking

the palmpad is just going to be a bigger palm pre 2 without the keyboard. Why would anybody be excited about that. They can't even get a us carrier to sell the pre 2 so you can pretty much predict how the palm pad will sell.....

So, can to be interesting: show in CES/January, and sell in March...

Two Months to the Market comment about...

Serious: the BIG move of Apple wasn't exactly launch a Tablet, but promisse to sell magazines and others that everybody gonna to pay do read in IPad.

Remember: the big newspappers and magazines are crazy, because they don't like to puts "free" news in his websites... they wanna gain more $$$...


Best Regards...

$10 in Monopoly money that one of the ads says something like:

"...with the first Operating System designed specifically for Tablets...:

I still haven't heard anything that would compel anyone to consider a webOS tablet. Why would anyone buy one of these instead of an iPad, Android tablet, RIM Playbook, or a Windows 7 tablet? Apple and RIM have a defined user base. Android is a good platform for great hardware companies or low-cost ones to strut their stuff. Windows 7 has all of the PC capabilities built in.

WebOS? - I doubt the zero percent mindshare mobile OS will be a driving factor for the PalmPad.

Enterprise? - Does that mean that companies will assign these to their employees to use?

Any business school student knows the hazards of introducing a product that meets no defined need. Who is the target market for this device? Or, does it merely exist because HP "needs to be in this space".

If nothing much happens with this is it destined for the same fate as the iPaq?

Good points.

And the Palm Pad will come to market after the BB Playbook and iPad 2 have already been on the market gobbling up consumer market share (Apple) and business market share (BB). What will be left for HPalm by the time Android gobble up the crumbs that are left? Less than 1.3% market share. If Microsoft ever comes up with a tablet strategy that has a clearly defined customer base, HP can forget about it.

Very simply, because to actually *produce* something on a tablet, one needs the kind of multiwindow, multitasking interface present on computers but sorely lacking in iOS or Android. I plan on using a webOS tablet as a portable writing environment; I want to be able to access Web pages and other documents alongside whatever I'm writing. {Jonathan}

Your issue is, if you don't have an app to do that, or if the apps on IOS or Android are more productive/better than what you have available, who really gives as shit if you can flip through apps a half second faster?

You know what I'm sick of? People constantly badmouthing HP/Palm on this site. Let's all remember why you're even reading this right now. WebOS is amazing and we love what it does, and the potential it has.

For once I'd like to read positive comments on here. So much anger flying around, and it's all coming from WebOS users. It's a shame...

First off, just because someone is on this site or commenting on this site doesn't mean they're a current WebOS user or ever were.



Second off, I'm really sick of people complaining because people make negative comments.
People aren't just doing it for fun.
There's very valid reasons for it.
People are sick of/tired of/done with/what have you with the way this whole production is ran.

Finally, there's a very important word that you put in your post.
Potential.
Ya know what's important about that word?
It's meaningless.
Potential is COMPLETELY irrelevant.
If you do NOTHING with the potential, which is what Palm and HP have done so far, nothing....then it's completely irrelevant how much "potential" exists.

If you don't have or never had a webOS phone then why are you on this site?I'm sure there is a blog for your phone. This is for anyone that fits into this category. Now if you had webOS and you moved on,I could understand you being on this site.But like I asked before.F you moved on,why are you still here?

This is the internet not a members only club.

I did have a Pre, as if that's your business.

People come to sites like this for news. To keep tabs on things.
Etc.

If I eventually ditch my Pre (the most probable tipping point likely hinges on CES announcements), I will still check back here for new developments because of the elegance of the platform and its potential for growth. But a beautiful foundation does nothing on its own.

That uncertainty is the same reason I read Engadget stories about iOS, Android, and MeeGo - I want to see if they will meet my needs with a future update, so I keep tabs on them just like Mattykinsx does at Precentral.

We are not fanboys, so there is no reason that we have to be blind to the rest of the gadget world, and we are certainly allowed to comment wherever we choose.

Now, if someone comes in and claims they are a webOS user and they are quitting if something isn't released soon, I can understand your frustration.

Which is exactly what I have done. I moved on to another device a while ago, but still like to keep up to date on webOS news and where it might be going.

Although, I'll admit, it's kind of like watching a train wreck in slow motion this past while :/ I do still hope something more comes of it, it would be a shame to see webOS simply disappear over time. I have a feeling though that once the announcements start, there's going to be a number of them all at once.

+1

I hope it doesn't look like that picture above. If that guy isn't optimistics about the webOS tablet that worries me about even getting one. They(HPalm) needs a sleek design like the ipad.CES in a few weeks!!! Hope HPalm is there!!

I really hope Hp is listening to us because they need to step it up and announce stuff without the words "coming soon" or "Coming months" or "later date". Give us an actual month this time.....

If HP were listening, we'd have some information or some action. Obviously they don't care and it doesn't matter to them. Whatever plan they may have (which right now looks like- "DO AND SAY NOTHING"), they are following it strictly. Let's just hope it doesn't kill the platform entirely (it would appear that is their plan).

I don't know if I'm repeating others here (haven't caught up yet), so my apologies. Here's the deal: HP ain't no fool. They didn't spend more than a billion dollars to squander it. They have shareholders to appease, and no one wants to father a failure. I absolutely guarantee you that the reason you haven't heard much is because HP wants to blow the doors off when they do make their "BIG ANNOUNCEMENT", so they've seeding money like mad to developers and having them sign NDAs like mad. I'm also sure they have a mad ad campaign under wraps, and huge plans for waking up the mindless hordes that have crawled into Apple stores, slobbering all the way. Chill out, folks, it's the calm before the storm... :)

Same thing could have been said about Palm after the release of WebOS.

Assuming that something is going to happen because there's big corporations involved, or simply because you want it to be the truth, doesn't make it the truth.

We have seen NO evidence that HP is doing anything intelligent with WebOS.

The Pre 2 is a joke, plain and simple.

You might bring up WebOS 2.0. I'll guarantee you that 2.0 was in the works before HP even put in their bid for Palm.

So what has HP done for WebOS thus far?

"Coming soon...in the coming months..."

Nothing.

Seconded. Agreed

I could hazard a guess as to the reason for some of the delay. It's quite possible HP is having a hard time finding enough factory space to make their devices since their competitors are ramping up too, and they didn't want to publicly commit (or publicly leak) until they had firm committments in that regard. They were late to the game, after all. As to the Pre 2, as many others have pointed out, it was probably already in the works when HP took over, so blaming them for that is unfair (I'm sure they just released it as a stop-gap).

We can assume/hope/rumor/whatever things all day long.

The reality is nothing is being done because no one can see that anything is being done.

The only thing we know is that "in the coming months...","sometime soon...", "maybe eventually..." we MIGHT see something.


And that's why Android fans, Apple fans, Blackberry fans and hell even Windows fans are just laughing at this whole thing.

Even Nokia users are laughing at this whole thing. Inaction on HP's part is killing the platform. Those who argue the "wait and see" approach are losing that argument. Just go over to all of the sister sights in this network and check out what is happening with iPhone, Android, BB, and even Windows 7. THEY ALL have TV commercials but HP? No. No mind share. No action. Market share dwindling...

"The reality is nothing is being done because no one can see that anything is being done."

Hmmm, does that mean that the other 7,999,999,999 people on the planet (or whatever the number is by now) are sleeping off a quick one 'cause they haven't told you what they're doing?

I agree that HP should be dropping more hints, but if their goal is a reboot, complete with a mind-blowing conference demonstration, this silence may be part of the big picture. I just don't think it's worth losing sleep over. We all know their market share is something like 1.3 percent, so they're not losing much by not saying much. If you build it (the really, awesome, knock-your-socks off stuff), they *will* come [back]. Can HP pull this off? Time will tell...

The difference between HP now and Palm after the release of webOS is that HP has tons of money to throw at "the problem". Palm created an outstanding OS on what seems to be a shoestring, but they couldn't get the hardware right.

With all of that said, count me among the people who are getting impatient. I have a Pre Plus and won't be upgrading to anything until April. I'm hoping to have a choice of a better webOS phone by then. I doubt I'll leave webOS though. The only thing that would tempt me is if the iPhone finally comes to VZW. If that happens, it could be the death blow to Palm anyhow.

The assumption that money can solve all problems in business is incorrect.

Look at Facebook or even Google.

They built from nothing. It's not about money as much as it is ingenuity.


Until we actually SEE results of Hp buying Palm, not rumors, nothing has been done and that "money" is as irrelevant as the "potential" that WebOS has.

And do you work for Hp? The Palm division of Hp needs to stop being so pendantic.

Sadly, no, I don't work for HP, but I'd love to. Granted, I have a history of supporting companies that have squandered great things (Amiga, BeOS, and now Palm), but I prefer to have hope and expect MORE great things, than give up hope and pray for death. Just the optimist in me... :)

Dont feel so bad. I championed:

Blockbuster entertainment, Primeco, MCI, Circuit City, and now WebOS lol

All the wishful thinking and hope in the world isn't stopping developers and end users from bailing on this platform. 1.3% dude. It would take a mammoth product launch with thousands of useful apps, and an incredible marketing push that includes numerous commercials and products that DO NOT have AT&T exclusivity. And even if that were to happen, who's going to bail from Android and Apple to come to Palm?

Listen. Some of you don't know what you are talking about at all.

Its been less then 1 year for the tablet place. What makes you think a couple months is really going to change that much. That's like saying laptop companies had 1 year to get to market or they'd never sell a computer and would go bankrupt.
HP could wait another year and still make money on tablets if they wanted to. Just cause a similar product is already out doesn't mean you can't make a new product better and make a profit which is the most important issue for any company.

The problem with what you're saying is your misconception of this market.

Those laptops were all running Windows [or to a lesser degree, Mac OS]

That's not what this is like.

This is less a fight of hardware and more a fight for software.

A few months is an eternity.

It's a COMPLETELY different market and Hpalm is just blowing another opportunity.

So is the mobile market world going to be an either Android or iOS phone world like it is in computers with Windows and Mac?

How sad that will be with only 2 operating systems...

Your personal opinions aside, there's not gonna be 5 or 6 different platforms when the dust settles.

It will be consolidated.
And it's very, very unlikely that WebOS will be around when the dust settles.

forgetting about WP7 and Blackberry OS. But yeah basically. Will get streamlined. This is Blueray versus that other technology.

Ditto, well put.

Indeed. HP's inaction just about guarantees that WebOS won't be around when the dust settles. Everyone is moving forward. WebOS is moving backward. The only HP commercials where WebOS is displayed at all are the "connected printers".

If they have all of this time to waste then they should really think about increasing webOS's market share among smartphones before they dive into tablets with an operating system that usually is considered "other".

I agree. HP, Lenovo, Dell, Gateway, E-Machines, and Acer all made PCs that, more or less, did the same thing and ran the same way, and they all made money. Unless I'm mistaken, that's more than 2 vendors in the marketplace. There's room for HP in the mobile market, especially when you consider that they have beaucoup buckets of money to throw at it. They can put together complete packages for schools, businesses and specialty stores, and build a presence and mind share that way. Add developer "pay-offs", commercials and celebrity goodie-bag giveaways, and you can build on that. Hell, HP could write ALL their big-name apps themselves with the money they have. HP, FTW!

I hope the new phones are hot spot capable.

I hope the PalmPad is awesome.

We'll see.

There will be no "hot spotting" on AT&T and probably VZW. Sprint might give that up and T-Mobile could, perhaps. As for the Palm Pad, after they sue RIM for stealing their IP, things could get interesting in the tablet space.

Hey Mattykinsx, please reply to this message.

if someone isn't an anti apple, anti droid fanboy why would they buy this over an ipad, tab, or blackberry tablet? Like for the unbiased consumer why buy this over the others? I see no reason.

Choice.

Just because Japanese cars are selling better than American cars in this day and age does not mean that American car manufacturer's should just give up being in the market, even if all cars essentially do one thing: drive.

There's always money to be made. No one has a 100% stranglehold on any market of any kind.

PalmPad will be fine. It will be better than most Android-based tablets right from the get-go because every cheap ass manufacturer thinks that they can stuff a free OS onto crap hardware with a resistive touchscreen and make bank at your local Walgreens or Target. Until Motorola and Verizon team up again and spend billions on an ad campaign for the "DROID PAD" or whatever, your average consumer won't even regard Android tablets. iPad is the tech to beat just like the iPhone... and IMO, Palm successfully created a better experience in the Pre than Apple did in the 3GS.

Actually only the top three American auto manufacturers made it. There was no room for a fourth. The rest gave up.

There's a serious issue with what you're saying, well besides how you down play Android..the OS that has ran over IOS and RIM in just a year... American cars [and even Foreign cars] offer the same basic things.
Foreigns were winning for a while with better quality and better gas mileage now American cars are doing the same with also technology built into the car experience etc.

WebOS has cards.
That's about it.
No apps, no manufactures or devs whatsoever behind it.

And to be completely honest, cards "greatness" is over exaggerated.
[I can easily switch between apps in the same time frame it takes with webos, on android, except it's actually more organized as I get icons]

But anyway, back to the point, WebOS offers nothing.
EVEN IF you say that cards are the best way for multitasking...who cares if there's no good apps to multi-task with.

Good point. No one is going to leave the millions of iPhone apps or hundred thousand Android apps behind to buy into a platform that has a couple hundred apps at best. Apps that when compared to Android and iPhone apps, just don't cut it. No one is going to jump from Android or iOS to WebOS. The apps aren't there. Which carrier is going to have their staff prioritize Palm products over Android or IOS, both of whom have a foot hold at certain carriers? And IF the iPhone comes to VZW, you can forget about Palm on that carrier.

I'm not downplaying Android dude, just the way it's implemented. The OS is free which makes it very, very vulnerable to crap hardware and to crap overlays like TouchWiz which fragment the hell out of a consumer's perception of what Android actually is. Your average consumer thinks a Droid is a Droid and an Evo is an Evo, not that both are Android-based and are completely different looking.

When a consumer asks questions, it's always like "Is that Sony laptop good?" or "Is that Toshiba any good?" not "Does it have any fancy overlays or software that enhance or detract from the Windows experience?"

This is why Apple is king. Their hardware and their software are married and people will get the same experience this year, next year and the year after that... and when Apple raises the bar and throws them some very tasty crumbs (like front-facing cameras or high res. displays), their customers commence brick shitting.
WebOS is great because it just works. You don't need to get some task killer, app uninstaller, antivirus, or need to doll up it's basic functions so it doesn't feel like a convoluted mess. There are very solid apps for it and it's homebrew community is second to none.
WebOS is aging and it STILL feels far more futuristic than Android and iOS, both in which have had major overhauls.

The only thing you just said that I'll agree with you on is your comment of how most people misperceive what android really is... and that's because it's hard to argue when even you prove it with all the misconceptions and incorrect statements you make about it in this post.

You DO NOT need task killers for android.
PERIOD.

You DO NOT NEED an uninstaller app anymore than you would for webos.

You don't need an antivirus anymore than you do for any other platform.


Apple is losing to Android now so I'm not sure why you're saying it's "king".

The reason is because Apple is not open source. Open source is why Android is killing everyone else. That and being backed up by google apps and google functionality.



Your "Webos is great because it just works" comment truly sums up the delusions of this forum.
Try running WebOS without any patches or anything...yeah ok...
Now try running Android stock. Actually, you know what's funny about this? Besides for Kernel changes [which are phone specific, not Android specific] 80-85% of the changes made via homebrew roms are themes and removing of bloat-ware.


Also the homebrew community comment is silly too.
The Android homebrew community is 1000 times bigger than WebOS.
The ONLY attractive aspect of WebOS homebrew is that it's smaller so therefore it's much more organized. Only minor benefits of that.

You are incorrect, you have misconceptions, you are wrong, and did I mention that you are incorrect? ... damn, relax bro. We're all friends here.

Apple isn't losing -anything-. Trust me. Not a single cent that they make is being bled because Android. They are a very wealthy and profitable company and when they decide to move their iPhone to other US carriers... well, good luck to Google, Palm, and MS. It'll be amazing to watch every company step up their game all at once.

And you're trying talking OS vs. OS here, not hardware vs. hardware.
If you want to have a valid argument on Apple you need to do Apple vs. Motorola. Or Apple vs. HTC.
Not Apple vs. Android.
Apple's iOS is throwing down against 60+ Android devices with their handful of devices and ONE carrier in the US and doing very well... kind of sad if you think about it. That's like ... Neo vs. a thousand Agent Smiths from that one bad movie. Unfair, but not at the same time.

I understand open source's goods and it's evils. Free turn-by-turn? Good. Bing replaced by Google and take away free turn-by-turn? Evil. It's all at the mercy of A) manufacturer, and B) service provider.

I did try stock Android 2.2 and WebOS 1.4.5 without any patches. Don't get me wrong, I like Android's utility but I find myself using and liking WebOS more. I'm not delusional because of that and for you to attack this community about liking one OS over another is making your fanboy show... and it's ugly, buddy.

The only thing I'm going to say to all this is if WebOS is so damned "great out of the box" then why are there more patches to edit the OS than freakin' quality apps for the OS?

Why is it that the average person, as I remember reading on this forum in a poll a while back, has more than 100 patches installed to edit the system?
Why is it that when I had my Pre, when my brother had a Pre and now when my mom has my old Pre...we all have over 200 patches installed?

I thought it was oh so great out of the box?

It's not.




Homebrew is nice dude, really it is, but it's NOT a selling point and that's why Palm hasn't used it as such.
The average Android user isn't rooted.
The average WebOS user isn't in dev mode.
The average iPhone user isn't jail broken.

While it's nice to have those options, most people leave their phones stock.
Thus we see what people really like.
When WebOS was released Palm marketshare was 7% and stayed at 7% for a few months.
Since then, that was June 2009, it's fallen to 1.3%.
Android's has doubled three times over since then.

The proof is in the pudding.

If you're going to claim one of those OS are "great out of box" then it's easy to conclude it's Android.
Moreover, you brought this debate on yourself when you brought up WebOS "just working" [which I've proven is obviously not the case]


One other thing, that "Apple empire" is falling. It will probably not completely die, but it won't be what it has been. Thankfully.
$1500 for a laptop that's $600 if it runs Windows simply because it has the half eaten apple on the back...pathetic.

I never said it was great out of the box. I said it just worked. Which it does, very very well. You haven't proven ANYTHING otherwise other than say Android is better out if the box. My Samsung Fascinate and my gf's Droid say no to you, sir. And at least the Pre can friggin' game like an iPhone all day long.

And when I said the WebOS homebrew guys were second to none, it was an opinion. I appreciate what they do and they don't have to warn me about bricking my phone either. Much love.

Like I said before, PalmPad will do fine. If WebOS ever picks up momentum next year, we will be seeing a lot more than just 2.0. I'm not happy about the waiting game but it's not like i haven't been messing with other devices either.

WebOS attractions? Dwindling market share. Developers bailing left and right. HP completely inactive while every other platform continues to move forward and expand the number and functionality of apps and handsets (Android in particular). Want a real laugh? Go stand next to someone who has an iPhone or an EVO. Look at their apps and look at your WebOS apps. You'll get the point as to why everyone is bailing, very quickly, or just remain in denial with the other four fanboys who are left.

WebOS is great. Tablets okay. Fact is the hardware & form factor needs a rework. The Pixi (Much better form factor, I would love to have it with the Pre Plus Specs but BIGGER) is okay but underpowered.

The Pre form factor doesn't suit me. The battery life sucks ass. I'm on my second Pre Plus. No voice dialing, the auto correct sucks. Palm is thinking tablets when it's phones are way behind the curve in hardware, build quality and features that are pretty common on dumb phones. Seriously a metal body and glass screen plus a larger size in addition to voice dialing would help.

WebOS is the best Mobile OS, no doubt, but I'm not going to wait for Palm to play catch up. There are too many quality options to justify doing Palm's evangelism and being a fan boy for no output or even a hint.

The new Palm Pre is the phone they should have come out with 2 years ago. Face it, the best thing to happen to Android and IOS is Palm and HP's inaction.

I'm jumping to Android or Apple. IOS pales in comparison to WebOS but Apple's iPhone is a sturdy and elegant machine. Most Andriod phone are ridiculous with features. Thanks HP! I'm thinking you bought Palm for the patents, not the products.

I think HP could just start from zero, losing that 1.3% market share, without a problem.

Actually, probably 90% of that 1.3% is stil enjoying theyr Palms without knowing about the "in the comming months" nor P/C or anything... So it'd be actually just a bunch of users they would lose, if they do at all, because I'm pretty sure most of us will wait a big longer, including most of those threating about jumping ship.

But returning to my first sentence, the market tends to infinit regarding time, so if they bring out good enough products, they'll eventually get theyr share... They just don't worry about the few of us, they worry about theyr business in the future, and that's not the comming months, it's more likely the comming years, so I suggest all whining people to assume this, stop suffering,try to enjoy what you have and if you need something else in the short future, you better move on and search elsewhere, because it's going to take time before HP will be on par with Android and Apple (regarding apps that is, because I don't think they have much to envy regarding OS, much the
contrary)

Don't know if I made myself clear since english is not my native language, but long story short, I think HP is considering itself as new in the game from next year, and I think there's room for everyone since market keeps growing, it'll just take time and doing things well to get theyr share, and we'll just have to wait

With hundreds of people working on Palm products, and with the unavoidable logistical difficulties of merging Palm into HP while continuing to move ahead on planned products, I have to believe that awesome announcements will come soon, with the products ready to ship when product announcements are made. In this market, being secretive is necessary. I can't help think that HP/Palm employees get regular laughs from reading the constant angst on this site. Since I'm not eligible to upgrade until next October anyway, it's probably easier for me to have an optimistic and patient attitude, but even so, I do get weary of the constant negativity and I find I read comments less and less often.