App Catalog updates three apps, loses two 59
Thu, 08 Oct 2009 11:10 pm EDT 
The webOS App Catalog has received two updated apps, in the form of PicHunt - Vintage Cars and PicHunt - Pets yesterday and PicHunt - Space Explorer today. The trio of spot-the-difference apps from EpicTilt were available before as free apps and now are $0.99. They now come with 50 photos each to examine and can upload your scores online so that you can compare with other players.
While that’s good and all, the App Catalog has also lost two applications: Homebrew graduates FriendsFlow and BlockDrop. It turns out that FriendsFlow was taken down due to changes made with the way Facebook works that broke the app; the developer is working on an update. There is no official word from Palm as to why BlockDrop, a Tetris game, has vanished from the store, though being the paranoid conspiracy theorists that we are, we have our suspicions...
59 Comments
and those suspicions are.....?
Copyright complaint? Wasn't there talk of an official tetris app? Maybe they complained to Palm...
Cease and desist? IIRC, a Tetris clone was pulled from iPhone-land as well due to a request from The Tetris Company. I was actually surprised to see a new clone in the App Catalog, figuring TTC would be locking down their own release.
I bought Friends Flow yesterday and the program never worked. It simply allowed the homebrew version to work. I would be more than happy to send the developer 20 bucks directly as a donation for his hard work. Should I not expect a refund from Palm? cam I missing something here?
haha :P
Yea - how do we get our money back for Friends Flow? I bought it and within 8 hours the x.facebook.com site had been updated which totally obsoleted Friends Flow.
I had always wondered how anyone would be able to sell a Tetris clone without the permission of the owner of the Tetris copyright. I posted this very question in the BlockDrop thread awhile ago but never received a response from the developer.
First, understand what a "copyright" is for. It's to protect an original work from someone's else making a claim of ownership. Technically, one need not ever register a copyright (in the US, it's with an office of the Library of Congress). You just declare that you have a copyright. Downside is that, if it ever went to court, you'll likely need to support of an "actual" copyright to support your claim. But, I digress from the original point.
A copyright is for the work, itself, and not for a general concept. For example, it's possible to copyright a book you wrote about trees. You cannot, however, get a copyright for ANY book about trees.
So, a software copyright is for a specific piece of software. Microsoft can copyright "Microsoft Windows 7," but they cannot (as much as they may want) copyright all operating systems.
A patent, on the other hand, can be used to protect certain "inventions." An invention can be a small thing, such as "use of a touchscreen device to manipulate shapes."
When you see an intellectual property lawsuit, it's usually about a patent and not a copyright. Trademarks (and other marks, such as service marks) also see quite a bit of legal action (there is a current case against a supermarket by Apple for the use a stylized apple as a logo).
So, the owners of "Tetris" may have a copyright on their particular software code. They may have a trademark on the word "Tetris." They may even have patents on specific methods of manipulating blocks. (I actually don't know what they have, as I'm too lazy right now to look it up.) What they do not have is some sort of IP that prohibits anyone from creating a game whereby one tries to assemble block shapes.
In other words, from a legal perspective, it's highly unlikely that someone could be prevented from making a Tetris-style game. There may need to be some specific differences, however.
The thing is, an individual developer isn't going to have the money or time to go to court. So, when faced with an accusation of infringement, they simply give up. Why spend thousands of dollars just to file a legal motion, when you're expected revenue for your product is that?
One other thing: Tetris, as a concept, predates any IP. Elements of the game have been around for thousands of years. The specific computer game has existed for over 20 years and has been in the public domain. As such, there is pre-existing art which invalidates anyone's claim to own the concept outright.
One last thing for those that are interested: the most famous "case" (actually a series of cases) on this subject, pertaining to games, is like Monopoly. There have been lawsuits over the name (warning to the "Pre-opoloy" developer), graphical elements of the game, etc. The various owners of the game (it has changed over the years) have won a number of suits, but they have yet to prevent anyone from making a game where people buy "things" (be they properties or Martian hotdogs) in an attempt to own everything.
Does that help? Maybe not. Bottom line: anyone can make a "block drop" game. What you cannot do is use the name "Tetris" (or something similar, like Pre-Tris), use copyrighted code, or use substantially similar (copyrighted) graphic elements.
Thanks for the detailed explanation. After doing some reading on the topic, it looks like The Tetris Company has filed cease-and-desist letters in a few cases, even when the name of the app was nothing close to "Tetris". One example was the Mac game "Quinn".
So even though BlockDrop may be legal since it doesn't infringe on the Tetris name, they may have received a cease-and-desist letter and may not have the resources to fight this battle in court.
The apps available now, such as the games are cool and all but i'm still wondering where the professional apps are? I love the Pre im just wondering when the business apps are coming while i still have room to install apps on my Pre.
like what kind of business apps are you looking for?
How about full "CANT" sync with Outlook, office document editing, PDF with reflow, a working calendar app, and a way to undo synergy.
WebOS is very nice in some ways, but as a PDA OS, which is what I really want, it sucks compared to the Treo. I, too, thought there would be a wave of professional apps right out the gate when the paid catalog was announced.
Why would there be a wave or professional apps for WebOS on launch? There are at least four other solid mobile platforms that have sold millions of devices. It probably costs $100K to $150K to develop the kind of app you are thinking about. Right now, people are trying to figure out whether they can make a profit on $9.99 professional apps.
Because without these things the phone is junk. Palm has longstanding relationships with certain developers, like DataVis and Chapura, for example, and so they should be making sure that we users get these requisite features ASAP. Throw those devs a bone! Help them help us. Otherwise, it's back to Symbian for me, where all these (easy) things are easy!
I've said from the beginning that Palm (or Sprint even) should subsidize the development of these apps, IMO. I for one really need Documents to Go (or some other office doc editor) and until I have it, I am forced to carry around my old phone. Business users need these things.
I love my Pre, but right now, other than the messaging and scheduling capabilities that it has, it's really more of a toy for me to play with rather than the productive business tool I would use heavily on a daily basis.
I know it's coming, and I am sticking it out. But not everyone in a similar situation as me will be so patient.
Any company that has had a long-standing relationship with Palm has suffered mightily over the past several years as Palms marketshare and mindshare has stagnated.
Don't forget that when Palm dropped the ball it took out a lot of developers and software companies that had to do one of two things: 1) Move their products to different platforms; 2) Die.
So, you expect these companies to jump up and down and say "Palms Back!" if they even exist anymore? Notice the dearth of traditional Palm OS "partners" that have released or even announced WebOS products. Chapura and who else?
I think some of these companies allowed their name to appear as a partner but are holding back to see how WebOS really does in the marketplace before committing any resources.
Chuck Norris broke friends flow....
I dont have a problem in the friendsflow works at all. the x.facebook.com site which yu are supposed to be able to comment on status' doesn't even work, friendsflow works and works great!
I'm truly disappointed. They made it sound like they had so much apps, they had to hire new staff just to help get the catalog going, we get like 15 apps, some then pulled. 2 Thursdays in a row now that we haven't gotten anything, that space explorers today does not count in my opinion. Where's Twee or Tweed? Where's Docs2Go? Where's something that some of us might actually care about?? If no more gets released until Monday and then we have another Monday of more photo comparisons and air hockey type apps, bitterness will plague me. :(
It appears Facebook fixed the problem, because both the pay FriendsFlow and the beta (which you can't run without paying) work just fine. x.facebook.com also works, and I will admit that if I had known about it, I wouldn't have bought FriendsFlow. Such is life.
Hmmm... I just bought Block Drop this morning. Guess I get to keep it for now. ;)
I'd say after the Kindle's 1984 fiasco it'd be a shocker if Palm went so far as retracting previous sales, hopefully. Thanks, Amazon!
as it is said, that palm has included a kill switch in his webOS I would not count on it. PALM IS EVIL!
PicHunt...wow..it's like those kids on YouTube that think they're getting a Wii or something and it's empty or filled with crap.
Or like those adults who bought a communication device and don't really care about gaming on it.
Nobody ever said this would be a Gameboy or an iPhone.
I didn't expect it to be a Gameboy or an iPhone, that's why I want more useful apps than PicHunt etc.
So don't buy it. Problem Solved. Move along.
Tetris clones exist across the internet. US copyright law, I read (I may try and find the link), does not allow a game idea to be copyrighted, just the name and, for a lack of the proper term, the trade dress.
What might have happened is that Tetris Proper objected to something somewhere within the game and BlockDrop was pulled while the offending bits are removed.
is it just me or do most of these apps suck?
I want to know why the Pixi gets a facebook app stock and pre users (with a higher end phone, same company) have to pay for one.
The pre will get the same app when the Pixi is released...
That facebook app will be on the pre, probably, by the time the pixi is launched. It's not like they will have it forever while we don't. The phone's not out yet, be patient.
there should be a limit on submitting the same type of bs games.. all of these pic hunt games could be consolidated into one app.. i'm not a cheapskate but come on now these epictilt games could be made by a 5th grader.. and before a douche bag decides to cry about my post saying "wah wah.. webos wasn't made for gaming.. wah wah.. if you want games get an iphone" i already know this.. we all want to take up for our webos device.. so understand that i am not downtalking pre.. i'm downtalking a wack developer.. come up with something groundbreaking.. or at least something outside of the box! i'd gladly pay for it.. dear epictilt.. i wish my brain wouldn't waste its time automatically reading your pathetic crappy titles as my eyes gaze past them! ugh
@d.moss epictilt thinks they can milk the fact the pre catalog is young and think pre users are stupid and will pay $ for this junk because there isnt much else to buy right now. The know this stuff is junk and isnt developed by 5th graders.. more like 12th graders with no programming background lol. trust me i know. i once had the displeasure to work there and that shit bothered me the whole time.
ps. epictilt is the same co as jirbo. do a google on jirbo and youll see why they had behind another name lol. best people can do to keep this from getting worse is not to support them by buying any games and keep voicing your opinions in comments and online forums.
good stuff there buddy.. good stuff
PicHunt... Wow. And remove ff and blockdrop... Talk about moving 2 stpes forward and 3 backwards. Pathetic. Wake me up when there is an actual app worth talking about. Have about a VIDEO APP; I'm talking about regular video, with sound, one that I can actual see what the heck I am recording, even an app like the one the old TREO 650 has (what, 10 years ago? but the new revolutionary PRE doesn't even have one?). How about a Photo app that adds a date stamp to pics you take if you want, and can reduce and crop it before you upload it or send it to friends/work etc. How about a SMS app where you can add most common emoticons and can forward. How about an EMAIL app where you can delete quickly all emails you don't want or have read already, but quickly like most other smartphones can do now, and could do YEARS AGO as well. I am not asking for much. Be PAR, at least. This stuff has been around for years. And I don't want to hear about some of the homebrew attempts at it which are not completely working, and I have to do the hocky poky so they work, and sometimes they don't etc. How abou that, ha? I am grateful for HOMEBREW, but dont' tell me that is the final solution. In the meantime, stop wasting bandwidth on crap like PicHunt, and or, what, another where-to-eat app. Please, give us a break. I bought the PRE, WebOS so I can play/match pictures? Please.
I believe you are putting the blame in the wrong places.
If you have complaints about email, sms, or video those are complaints about palm. App developers CAN'T write apps which fix those and release those to the app catalog.
If you have complaints about what apps people choose to develop... start your own company and write your own. It isn't palm's fault that developers seem more interested in writing games and restaurant apps.
I was complaining about PALM, not the app developers. They can come up with whatever crap they want. My choice is to buy or not. Done!
This is the medium where one complains about the PRE or braggs about. This is the right place, and I was puting the blame squarely on Palm, the creator of the PRE. It is up to PALM to invite, approve and or improve the already good HOMEBREW apps out there into the APP Catalog or allow more silly crap like the stuff they are letting throuhg instead of giving us fixes for their lack of functionality. There was NO reason to go stupid with the PRE and let go of basic functions just because they were coming with WebOS. Big deal! And so until Palm brings functionality back to PAR, any little stupid silly games and what-nots they allow on the App Store (or prevent serious ones from showing up) will continue to irritate the hell out of us.
epictilt makes that weird espn app too. ESPNzoom.
i have no idea why these are the first apps coming out. i mean if there are better why not release those? And if there aren't better then that's not too good. i checked out their iphone apps too. they are all kinda strange. Good luck to them but not the sort of thing i'd hoped for. especially when iphones are getting Guitar Hero announced. And i don't even like guitar hero. I wouldn't mind getting invited to the party though even if i don't want to go.
This is ridiculous. I NEED MY HERO!!! Thank god i'm within my 30 days on the Pre.
Hi, FriendsFlow developer here.
FWIW, I submitted a fix to palm hours BEFORE I asked them to take it down.
I told them that I wanted them to take it down if they couldn't put the new version up, because I didn't want to sell broken software.
So, I'm not "working on a solution," palm has had my solution since a couple hours after facebook made the change.
Palm needs to work on being able to push out bug fixes quickly if they are going to be able to have "cloud apps" which could be broken at any moment by the "cloud provider."
Working in the cloud has its advantages, but you're also at the mercy of the service provider. However you would think they wouldn't make drastic changes to their public API without posting notifications on their developer web page in advance to give developers enough time to make the associated changes in their code prior to the new API going public.
Can you provide some details as to what changed in their API that broke your code? Did they provide any kind of warning before making the change? Could this happen again in the future?
Thanks for the update. This seems to be a bit of a problem. The good people over at Tweed (the only other paid app I'm currently interested in) have been insinuating on their Twitter feed that Tweed 1.0 has been submitted to Palm for over a week now, waiting for App catalog approval. How is it that retarded "Match The Picture" apps get a higher priority than the things people actually want to buy?
I submitted FriendsFlow before labor day. They are MUCH more backed up than a week.
just incase you dont know, at E3 this year ea had a keynote with Alexei Pajitnov, the creator of tetris, and talked about the new tetris versions coming out (25th anniversary) and basically said they paid ALOT to acquire the rights to tetris and will pursue anyone who infringes on their I.P. Which means basically any game like tetris with those same rotating blocks. Also since ea has some titles on pre they are obviously monitoring the store.
The Tetris Company's lawyers sent Palm an entirely bogus 512(c) take down notice.
Palm is REQUIRED to do the take down of course, until DF can reply with a 512(g)
A 512(c) is a DCMA copyright take down notice, and of course, as was pointed out above, you can't copyright the GAME ITSELF only its instances as publications.
There's no equivalent to a 512(c) takedown for a patent or trademark, although they could send DF a cease and desist directly.
But since blockdrop is an entirely unique work, I doubt that will happen.
Apple's policy has been to refuse to accept 512(g) counter notices. I have no idea why other than that they're (((word redacted)))
Palm is following the DCMA standard here.
If true, this pretty much assures that I will never buy the commercial version of Tetris in the Palm App Catalog. I don't reward companies that turn to lawyers because they feel they can't compete otherwise.
Wow that sucks. Hard.
but then again I made the decision long ago to stay away as far as I can from anything that looks like something any big corporation is making money off.
Thing is that even if they're full of **** they can still make your life a living hell because they have money to hire lawyers to harrass you and most of us don't.
With money you can pretty much just sue competitors to death. Sad, sad thing.
FriendsFlow was cool till they updated x.facebook.com. I agree the previous commentor who asked for a refund.
TWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!!
Was the blockdrop game based on a opensource java variant of tetris seen on many platforms? Maybe I'm confusing it with another homebrew.
There are a FEW decent apps, but really, most of it is junk. The iPhone has a lot of junk apps, but it also has great stuff! I just DON'T care about games. I bought a smart phone to be productive, not distracted. How come there isn't a better PIM app that has all your todos, daily schedule, all together on one screen? There were zillions of those programs on the old Palm OS... How about another calendar app that I don't have to wait 5 seconds to see another day of events?
You're right of course.
But the companies who wrote the Palm OS and Iphone apps can not directly port their apps to WebOS.
And the people writing professional WebOS apps are working on it, but professional apps take time.
You can not write a professional time-and-billing app in a week.. You can not write a professional quick-books front end in a week. You cannot write a word processor in a week.
And -- companies wanting to support binary format programs like Word and Excel and such, have to negotiate with Palm for access to the un-released binary SDK.
You don't do THAT in a week. Many of those companies are waiting for proof-of-market before investing tens of thousands of dollars in development of WebOS apps.
If you need those apps NOW.... then get something else.
The Iphone didn't COME with those apps. It's a mature market.
Palm must be updating the App catalog, I keep receiving a the yellow triangle saying app catalog unavailable, try again later.
Any guess as to when the "Beta" banner will be dropped from the initial app catalog page?
There is another game named block drop available as a web game and an iphone app is it possible it was that dev that filed the complaint, since by having the current block drop tetris clone on the app store he would be unable to sell his block drop?
Well I have about ran out of patience with this damn phone, I mean really I feel like I was suckered in. I should have changed from palm to another company, trying to be loyal silly me. Patience, Patience, Patience, is all everyone wants to preach, but by the time Palm has fixed all their minor issues, (Video Recorder, SMS forwarding, better Calendar App, App limitations, better business and gaming apps, and so on and so on AND SO ON
I couldn't have said it better. My sentiments exactly. thank you.
get the hero, it's going to be bad*** with 10,000 apps. oh and you can change the messages ringer. oh and you will have LED notification. oh and you will have an actual virtual keyboard (not bootleg). oh and you will have flash. oh and your phone won't look like that greasy kimbo slice manhandled it. oh and your phone won't feel like a toy. i'm sure there is more but really.....do i need to continue?