Apple Blocks Palm Pre iTunes Syncing 306
It has begun. With the release of iTunes 8.2.1 (via TiPb), gut46 tells us, Palm Pre syncing with iTunes is indeed kaput. At least on this Pre user's Mac, iTunes sync isn't working after the 8.2.1 update.* According to Apple's surprisingly forthcoming release notes:
iTunes 8.2.1 provides a number of important bug fixes and addresses an issue with verification of Apple Devices.
We were wondering if this day would come after the back and forth between Apple and Palm on the issue. It's as-yet unclear exactly what method Apple is using to block Pre sync, but we suspect is wasn't easy. ...Which means we also suspect it might not be easy for Palm to turn it back on.
Well, webOS developers, a hard choice is in front of you. We already know you're awesome, now you just need to decide whether you direct your awesomeness at this cat-and-mouse game or focus on other things (like custom notification sounds).
For me, this news doesn't actually hit all that hard -- I already use doubleTwist for Palm Pre Media sync and recommend you do too until this issue gets sorted out. It may just be a long time, though. As noted in our comments - you also have the option of just not updating iTunes.
Thanks gut46!
*Quick update: plugging the Pre in does bring iTunes 8.2.1 to the front as though it wanted to work, but then iTunes simply doesn't show the Pre in the sidebar.
Update 2: Brent reminds us that Mac users may also want to check out The Missing Sync for Pre.
306 Comments
Totally expected. Was dumb for Palm then and still is. Get with Amazon and develop your own desktop manager Palm.
bah-WEEP-grah-nah-WEEP-ninny-BAHN
Attitudes like this are why Microsoft cant get rid of XP
Just don't update! You don't have an iPhone, or you wouldn't be here drooling over the pre all day!
From a business perspective it makes sense for Palm to forgo the effort and cost of developing it's own full featured media app to compete with iTunes. If a company can't create something that will distinguish itself from its competition then they shouldn't create it. Instead they chose the cost effective option of leveraging a competitors product, which is the smart move considering iTunes ample install-base across Windows and Mac.
Making the hardware appear as if it were an iPod was a quick and inexpensive solution that buys time until either a third party can step in or until the company can justify the expense of building their own dumbed down sync app.
The ultimate solution should be similar to what RIM did with BlackBerry; Provide a separate software package that leaches iTunes and syncs to the phone. I'd take that a step further though and put the software executable on the USB of the phone with zero install like a pocket app. Done right this could allow a user to sync with multiple machines and not have to worry about installing extra software to do it.
Palm was not using or relying on iTunes for you to transfer your music and videos to the Pre.
Clearly, Apple did this in order for iTunes users to look dis-favorably upong non-Apple devices. That by concept, is monopolistic!!
The point of WebOS is that it doesn't rely on iTunes or NEED to "pretend" for you to transfer information to your Pre!! Dragging and dropping files downloaded from iTunes is just as easy as syncing, for computer literate people. Why can't or won't you acknowledge that? Palm simply saw the shear size of the iTunes community and decided to make a work around. Palm is not SOLELY depending on iTunes anyone else's software for anything! Don't be a drama-queen.
"Pre got caught doing something they shouldn't have Apple stopped it"? Wait, who said that Palm shouldn't have coded their media sync mode to look like iPod's? What is inherently wrong in doing that? Please tell me. Again, Palm doesn't need an app or even need media sync AT ALL because of the nature of it's OS and UI. Furthermore, this is not a 'debate' because it is not up for change or discussion as to whether Palm/Apple should change something! Again, I have used iTunes for months, with no Pre, no iPod, no iPhone, and have been able to transfer music to my old mp3 player with no frustrations. Dragging and dropping tagged music is just as easy because Pre sorts the files for you.
See this idea that Apple developed iTunes solely for uses with their own hardware isn't the case. If it was the case the program wouldn't be available to those without an Apple product. The fact is that iTunes is marketed as a media player/data base program and the front for the iStore. It would be very interesting to see just how many of iTunes users do not in fact own an Apple product and uses the program to buy and play media files. I'm guessing that with the numbers they are selling, most of us would be surprised. Personally the only thing I'll miss about the iTunes sync is the playlists. What I won't miss is how slow the program starts and runs, AAC files, Genius pointing to the iStore everytime you do a search, only being able to sync with one computer and the way iTunes hides the file.
Of course Apple has no obligation to cater to non-Apple hardware. But why shut out others that benefit from a product that you sell, just because you are using a hardware that they don't sell? This is more than proprietary! It's like Microsoft saying that they are all of a sudden disabling all software that is running on non-Microsoft operating systems, just so you have to go buy a Windows OS. That's why Microsoft got sued for being monopolistic in the past.
WHAT?????? Are you kidding or just that brain washed?? The only retailer making any real money on recorded music sells is Apple. A majority of them maybe iPod users but not all of them.
"Piper Jaffray released its 13th annual survey of teenaged technology consumers today. The survey found Apple's iTunes store accounted for a whopping 90% of the online music downloads. Napster's share of the music-download market held steady at an anemic 3%, according to Piper."
They all but control the retail recorded music market. Don't believe me then go to the apple site - http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2008/04/03itunes.html
This is unrelated but made me laugh - http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10288022-37.html
By the way wasn't one of the points of the MSFT anti-trust Lawsuit over them bundling their own programs like IE with their OS? OH but this is Apple right? The kinder, gentler, major international corp.
So you honestly believe Palm needs iTunes for the Pre to "make it"? Take off your Palm-hater glasses!
"... invested the development effort..."?? Are you serious? Palm is being run by the guy who created the iPod. How much effort do you think it took to make Pre's media sync mode look like iPod's?!
Palm has it's own media contracts with Amazon, that has 90-95% of the media that iTunes has. Why would they invest MONEY with Amazon (forget about "development effort") if they were going to rely on iTunes to "make it"?! Be serious, man.
They're more likely to rely on iTunes outside the US. Amazon only sells it's music to customers with a valid US Credit Card and Billing Address. Kind of sucks for the rest of the world.
Apple's fearful reaction to the Pre is telling. The 3GS is a snore. AT&T sucks. The plastic is discoloring. The upload speeds are a crippled by short-changed chip choice. Instead of focusing on making quality products, they are now lashing out at competitors for daring to allow users to use their devices and media the way they want, not how Apple wants. With all the problems Apple is having, stomping out a handful of Pre users in their top priority? Cracking up, they are.
Spot the iTroll in this picture. :-\
It was a nice kick in the balls to Apple, but like Cardfan said...It was expected for Apple to patch it. Anyone who thought otherwise was in denial.
Palm should strike a better deal with Amazon & make their own desktop app.
I'm not going to upgrade my itunes. I'm going to hold off for as long as i can.
I just had the same thought. I'm guessing that you should sync your pre before updating the iTunes. You should be able to clean it out most of it. The other option and I think the only way to get rid of all of it would be a soft reset. Before you reset I really suggest that you have everything backed up and I think you will have to reinstall all the apps.
Here we go ladies and gents. Let the free Palm advertising begin!
It was fun while it lasted and I think Palm's mission was accomplished. Phase two is to clown Apple publicly in social media: "United breaks guitars...Apple breaks my Pre..."
I'm fine with walking away from iTunes. My question is, what's the proper way to clean up my Pre of any media iTunes has left stranded on it? Is there any gotcha if I mount my Pre with USB and simply trash the iPod_Control folder? Anything more or less I need to do?
What mission? To rely on third party apps for basics that Palm should be doing? In this case, it was a competitor's app.
This was screwed up from day one. Yes, itunes is popular but so what? So's the iphone. Why is giving customers a half baked experience on a competitor's app considered a good idea?
This is Palm's baby. Media mgmt, app catalog portal, Amazon video/audio portals, along with desktop syncing should've been a Palm desktop app all along. Forget an itunes experience..make it yours Palm.
The mission was purely PR. It was a clever and ballsy play to nab some 2007 iPhone 1.0 early adopters whose contracts were expiring. "iPhone user? Hey, the Pre will sync with your iTunes library!" If Apple blocked it, it's more David-and-Goliath PR win for Palm. And if Apple screwed up and there's just one genuine iPod that now won't sync with iTunes, then it's epic Apple fail.
Palm was ready for this and has the counter-move all lined up. Just watch.
[deleted duplicate]
Unfortunately many technology sheep use iTunes. And purchase music that isn't really theirs after they buy it. Unfortunately.
Hmm. If the music is really mine, then why the hell does Apple care what device I'm syncing it to?
See this is more of Apple's "sure you can have any color you want as long as it's black", AAC files? If Apple was really as open and uninterested in controlling where the files they sell end up, why are they not selling the much wider used MP3s? You know the file that can be played on just about any device or computer without downloading iTunes.
AAC is higher quality and most modern music player can play it, retard.
So if that is true, how do I put the iTunes music I purchased before I understood the evils of DRM onto my Pre? If it is really mine. Sure it doesn't matter for stuff purchased now. But I can no long listen to $70 worth of music, without purchasing an Apple device or going through a crazy conversion via CDs.
Asked Palm for comment - it's early so all they could do was repeat the comment linked above "back and forth" - with just a minor change.
Palm's statement:
Palm's media sync works with iTunes 8.2. If Apple chooses to disable media sync in iTunes, it will be a direct blow to their users who will be deprived of a seamless synchronization experience. However, people will have options. They can stay with the iTunes version that works to sync their music on their Pre, they can transfer the music via USB, and there are other third-party applications we can consider."
Understandable that that's all they can say this early, IMO. For me, I agree with you guys who said it was inevitable and honestly I can't decide whether I want Palm to fight this particular fight.
They should use their time and little money to create their own app for this. I feel that Palm was so hard up for a total cloud experience with this phone, they didn't see the true need for SOME computer apps to be built (data sync)
Palm really should get something of their own up and running. I do think it was pretty cool they beat on Apple's toes by pointing out the Pre did sync with iTunes while it did.
Too bad Apple doesn't force us to update like Palm does ha sucks 4 them . I just updated last week to 8.1 so ill be good
Apple is demonstrating their weakness. Just goes to show they are getting scared of Palm Pre's competition. If they were truly confident in themselves, they wouldn't care about something as minor as a differen't phone syncing with mp3 software. Cowards! It makes me laugh, even though I've never used that stupid software to begin with.
I also couldn't care less about iTunes syncing. I love how Palm played it. It works. Apple can break it. Then you can ask them why. Brilliant.
The implication here being that folks who use Pre-iTunes sync are getting something that normally costs for free -- essentially stealing it. Last I checked, iTunes itself was free. So what is Palm stealing again? What code is running on the Pre that is owned by Apple?
I fail to see the logic in your argument. For Palm to have stolen "Apple's intellectual property", they would have had to have taken Apple's code and respin it as their own. Last I checked, there was no Apple code running on the Pre.
So, iTunes is free, and I own the songs I buy through it. Where is the theft again?
If it was illegal, somebody would be getting charged or sued. This has nothing to do with the law. Nothing was stolen.
Apple changed their software. I never said they didn't have the right to do so, nor did I say that they were wrong for doing so. I question the business sense of it, in that they are losing music sales in the long run ostensibly to increase device sales.
Legality has nothing to do with this. Whether it was "right" or not is somewhat subjective, but it certainly wasn't illegal.
Yeah seemed like tgis was going to happen but I think this really is good for palm... It is going to be talked about on every gadget podcast/site and news about gadget site... Hell maybe double twist will get some free advertising. And yeah like a previous poster said apple is conceding its fear... They finally admit to the public they fear the pre.
Yeah seemed like tgis was going to happen but I think this really is good for palm... It is going to be talked about on every gadget podcast/site and news about gadget site... Hell maybe double twist will get some free advertising. And yeah like a previous poster said apple is conceding its fear... They finally admit to the public they fear the pre.
Why do you stupid apple fanboys even comment on our site? Go away! no one wants you here!
Haha, I was waiting for them to do this. Now palm HAS TO make some software to sync with. Maybe something that can use the iTunes database to work XD
Syncing to iTunes was a win-win situation for Palm. Either it keeps working and their customers have an extra sync option or Apple "breaks" it and the David vs. Goliath stories begin. We now know the second scenario is in play. It's genious.
Because it was worth it in advertising to show how Apple wants you to only lock into their hardware. Worth all the effort just in the PR and geek blog buzz that it will generate.
Sync to the Zune software!
Jon, you are forgetting that blackberries can sync with iTunes without a license.Apple obviously isn't hurting today because of the pre. The Pre is nearing half a million sales while on the 2nd smallest carrier in the U.S. When the pre is around update 1.5-2.0 and on 20 carriers in 10 countries that is what apple is scared of and that is what is inevitable. Lets say every carrier sells 1,000,000 Pre's over the course of a year. 20,000,000 phones sold in the world your gunna tell me this doesn't scare apple?? Okay!
Just wish double twist could encode without the Pre attached. I don't want to hang my Pre on the computer for a couple hours to encode a bunch of TV and Movies on my Pre.
SyperSync (Mac/Win http://www.supersync.com/ ) ought to work just fine too. I'll try it when I get home tonight.
Ok, I'll tell you what i think... Palm had to rush and push the PRE out to get it out b4 the new Iphone and had deadlines to meet... hopefully they used Itunes as a quick fix for Pre users to use while they worked on their own Desktop Application. Hopefully we will see an app released soon that helps us Sync all of our Media seamlessly. Thank you Palm... LOVE YOU!!! :-D ????
I don't know about an Amazon music player. Look at the Kindle. They had the same DRM control fanatical outlook that Apple has with music. Bought up Mobipocket and only release new players that play Kindle content, but not mobi. The difference is one value between the two.
This assures there will be no new development of a mobi pocket player for new platforms (i.e. Pre) and that the protected books you purchased are no longer viewable on new platforms. One of the many ways the DRM is evil.
So how do you explain Apple being fine with many, many other devices syncing with iTunes? (Sorry, I should have written "many, many other devices ripping off their intellectual property".)
Pull your head out of Palm's ass, retard.
I still don't see any reason to use this spam/spyware from Apple. In the past it may have been a well written and useful app. But things have changed.
Just don't upload new verison
If you're on a Mac, you can type this command at the terminal to prevent Software Update from asking you to upgrade iTunes:
softwareupdate --ignore iTunesX
iTunes itself will still prompt you if you have the "Check for new software updates automatically" setting selected.
Apple gets on my nerves. I own an iPod Touch and a Pre. I don't want to keep track of another music library in another program. This is a prime example on how closed minded Apple is. I purchased my Apple product, and I've purchased my share of music on the iTunes store. The software should allow me to sync my music to any device I choose, including the Pre!
BTW for the record iTunes sync with the Pre was hardly seamless for me. We have multiple user accounts on our family Mac and invariably when I plugged in my Pre and tapped Media Sync, iTunes would launch offscreen in my wife's account instead of mine, forcing me to switch users, unplug, replug, etc. Not fun.
You use your "Anonymous" profile to say that Palm should "develop their own client..." and not rip off Apple. Here: http://www.precentral.net/doubletwist-manages-pre-media-freely-easily-tr... There is no need for Palm to rip off Apple.
You are not "going" for the Pre, yet you make comments on this site about the logistics of the Pre and it's software, why?! So you think non-iPod and non-iPhone users that use iTunes have not been able use move their music from their computers to their mp3 players? Of course they have!
Palm uses WebOS, 99% of the syncing is done over the web! Palm obviously wants people to download music from Amazon. But it still supports drag and drop for computer based music downloading!! Don't act like without iTunes sync, people that use iTunes won't be able to listen to their music on the Pre!! Trust me no mp3 player user sees this as a loss for the Pre or their mp3 player. If anything this is a loss for Apple for being discriminatory against syncing with non-Apple devices!
Let's get real people!
There is no need to sync with iTunes. Period. I use iTunes, I have been dragging and dropping onto my mp3 player forever it seems. What is the big deal? You can download DRM-free music, have iTunes tag the music, then drag and drop the files onto the Pre. Pre sorts the songs based on the music by tags anyway. AGAIN, WHAT IS THE BID DEAL? Don't sweat the small shit people!
Mission accomplished Apple. I've bought my last song off Itunes.
Let's get one thing straight here. Apple isn't shaking in their boots in fear of the Pre. Apple is shaking in their boots in fear of the CEO of the company that makes the Pre. BIG, BIG difference there fellas. Regardless of whether the capability is restored or not, Apple's got a fight on their hands they didn't exactly want to participate in. I love competition and free markets!! Perhaps Obama needs to weigh in with a mobile device content syncing Czar. His administration likes to get their hands into everything.
sums up what i was going to say. well stated.
hmmm maybe moving towards...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitrust_law
What ever, App-peeps. I synced my pre to iTunes once. Didn't like how it put the music on. Haven't done so since. I'm a drag/drop person. I may try WinAmp, but I've never really relied on a phone for music. I rarely purchase music from iTunes for myself. The monitors/raters over there don't know how to categorize music as Explicit. Folks, watch your kids on that software! Make sure you know what they are listening to. The Parental Controls is atrocious!
So, does Apple want to sell more Hardware or sell more music to consumers? Personally, I would concentrate on the music consumers rather than worry about what player they're syncing with.
I have been using iTunes to convert my PERSONAL CDs (NOT PURCHASED FROM APPLE) to digital format. I suppose I will have to now worry about apple removing the CD rip feature because it cuts into their iTunes store sales..... TALK ABOUT THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK!!
So if the #1 Priority is to Customers.... Then Apple should NOT make the iTunes SOFTWARE freely available to anyone. Make it available only to VERIFIED owners of their HARDWARE (and not available to folks who STOLE THEIR IPOD). That way, no issue with who uses Apple software with the appropriate hardware. THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
Thanks Michael (unverified)
Blows my mind how many apple fangirls feel they need to troll this site that has absolutely nothing to do with their precious iphone. It is every bit as lame as the blu-ray fans who'd troll all over the HD DVD forums. I honestly think we are dealing with 12 year old kids. Let's not forget that the Pre is actually meant to be a business device which the iphone fails to be rather than priority of an mp3 player. That is just a bonus. Go back to apple land and stay the hell out of our forum. Sure wish the mods would delete your accounts.
iPhone sells worldwide not just in the US like Pre. So you think they sold 500,000 3GS's in the US in a weekend? Quit telling lies. What is your point anyway? iPhone has been around for years, Pre, less than two months.
Funny how people bash Microsoft for doing tricks like this to cut out competition and the iPod/iTunes history is all about cutting out competition. Apple should be smart and separate their hardware from music download business. People will buy other hardware, that is the reality, why should they also be forced not to give you money for music. Just my two cents. I know that mp3 download is now available but cutting off syncing just seems petty.
Forget about Missing Sync. The Pre version simply doesn't work at all.
I've been a Missing Sync for PalmOS customer since 2005, and it mostly worked ok (though it was often flaky) but the new Pre version is completely useless. I've gone through three of their beta releases now, and I have *yet* to be able to successfully sync my contacts and calendars twice in a row without Missing Sync failing.
I've sent them detailed debug logs with each new beta release, and I haven't gotten a single response yet.
My beta trial period is going to expire in a week, and I sure won't be purchasing it. Since it, you know, doesn't work. I guess I'll have to finally bite the bullet and start using Google Calendar, which I *really* don't want to do.
Seems to be a lot of angry people out there today, Apple has a proprietary software that Palm "hacked" to allow the pre to sync with. We all knew this was going to happen, do you blame Apple, not one bit. I am big Apple fan, and I also love my Pre, but there are other ways around this, like a lot of people are saying don't update, or use Doubletwist. Not the end of the world. One thing there is to say is that Apple could have gained more revenue with having Pre users the ability to sync with iTunes, but do they really need that or does it really matter to them? I am sure if Palm and Apple come to some sort of licensing agreement this will all go away. But for now do what you must to continue to enjoy your Pre.
Cheers
Apple gain more revenue from Pre users? They lose revenue with lost iphone sales if they don't prevent Palm from leaching itunes.
That argument doesn't hold. Using iTunes does not require the use of an iPhone. There are many people who bought a Pre specifically because it is NOT an iPhone.
And, exactly what leeching did Palm do? I don't think they used any of Apple's code...
Not being an iTunes / iPod user, this does not impact me as much. My hope is that Palm will provide integration with Napster and Rhapsody ToGo natively or give strong support to third parties to develop apps for them. One example is PocketTunes for Palm OS.
I recognize that there is a huge number of iTunes/iPod users; however, I think this will provide the opportunity for others to take some of the market share from iTunes (not that that is the goal).
And do not forget about Amazon.
Actually, it wouldn't. Palm *could not* KNOW that Apple would disable this functionality. Palm also has stated that the Pre syncs with iTunes version 8.2.0 and earlier -- they never made the statement that it will sync with all versions of iTunes forever.
I think you need to work a little harder on your law degree before you make statements about legalities. Just because something seems like common sense or appears to be obvious does not mean it meets any tests of legal rigor.
Everyone didn't know; everyone speculated. Are you saying that Palm knew Apple's product plans and knew that Apple would change the code to make this not work? That would be a difficult assertion to prove.
Further, the Pre did, in fact, sync with iTunes. It still syncs for me with iTunes versions earlier than today's version.
I don't see the intent to defraud. It works as advertised.
Lastly, your argument is based on the speculation that an announced software feature will work exactly the same way forever, regardless of changes in technology. It seems to me that "everyone knows" that software changes over time and may obsolete equipment. It just happened to be sooner rather than later in this particular case.
Given that the "technology change" was performed by a company other than Palm, I don't see how Palm can be held accountable for a class action suit. Such an argument is ludicrous.
Again, running companies != law expertise. I've known enough people who have run companies to know that.
I just ran my touch through the saw and sent it to Apple.. Will it mean anything to them? probably not... They did though just lose a customer....
Not to go onto something else, But winamp is awesome especially when it comes to playing FLAC
hey "Boo-Hoo"... hey real quick ... I just wanted to let you know that you were a fag. Thats all... have a good night.
Dragging and Dropping is not an option. I rate music, I have distinct playlists, and much more than 8GB of music to simply "drop everything" on the Pre. I am also very particular about file naming convention and album artwork. I do this through iTunes. DoubleTwist doesnt even have album artwork does it? Ug I just DLed DoubleTwist and it is very ugly. I guess I'll use some type of 3rd Party iTunes sync app.
Palm launches pre in Europe, palm takes apple to court, EU sides with Palm that Apple must allow other devices to sync with itunes if it wants to sell music to non-idevice users.
Apple complies and cuts off a bigger market, or apple opens up there software in europe which we then take and install here in the us.
Same deal that happened with MS and IE. Just now it involves a monopoly with hardware/software syncing.
Yes.
take vlc
make a skin that has the same layout as itunes
add your app store
add an amazon interface
add rss podcasts.
done. and it would use less resources and install less crap then palm.
I have hated Apple longer then I can remember... I barely remember when it started... I think it was somewhere around the time the 1st ipod came out as a much inferior and much higher priced alternative to the young but exploding mp3 market and used DRM and a flashy add campaign to take it over and bastardize it. Add in 100s of spoiled presentations I have sat through when graphics/videos wouldn't show up or play properly because "sorry everybody, I made this presentation on my mac"
My first foray into ever using anything apple myself was trying i-tunes on my pre...... here is my experience.
Scanned and synced well enough but then when I looked for my music using my pre as a hardrive it was unrecognizable. WTF?
I was excited to try out this whole podcasting thing I keep hearing about but it didn't work too well (admittedly Pre's fault not i-tunes) so after about 3 days I just quit messing with it and felt a little dirty for letting myself be tempted to play with Apple to begin with. This is the nail in the coffin of mine and apple's brief and unsatisfying tryst.
My hat is off to Palm for having the balls to set up the pre to trick i-tunes but they from day 1 said it was not guaranteed to last so any of this ridiculous talk of class action suits against palm needs to stop.
In a nutshell.... kudos for the cojones Palm.... just what we all expected from the evil empire.
Technically Mac should also be sued by MS in Europe and be forced to allow the software to be installed on PC's. Then Apple has one option to keep its revenue up, increase the price of both Mac OS and Mac Hardware.
MS wont though because then they might lose market share. It would have to be class action.
So I can make a playlist, hit crtl + C and then paste that in my PRE USB mode, right?
Actually here in the US I agree, it wouldnt go far. In the EU it would, and apple would lose. Its the same argument for browsers being installed on Windows. Technically then MS could block browsers from installing. its the same arguement.
Bottom Line
In U.S. Palm needs to find another hole.
In the E.U. Once the pre is launched they can take apple to court. If Palm Loses then sam thing as US, but the EU courts admit to being wrong about MS, or biased as this is the same arguement just software/device based. If palm Wins then apple has to open the hole back up or accomodate other devices.
Your momma! You don't even have the guts to leave your/any name.
Seriously??? I guess I don't get it... WTF are all these apple geeks in a palm pre Forum for? I have a iTouch and a Pre... If the software was for the customer how come i can't use the software how ever i want... I mean owning the Touch makes me a consumer of Apple's Right??? So then, the Software should be mine to use as well? Hmm... sounds like Apple has a stick up their Asses.
Also, Apple is def watching Palm... I mean this is a company that wasn't doing very good and then suddenly releases a phone that does incredible. Maybe it didn't sell as many phones as the iphone but the difference is that apple isn't and wasn't struggling to begin with. so the fact that a company that was struggling has now become a major contender is something apple really needs to keep an eye on and for good reason. The webOS is something that is really great and has a lot of great Features... So, Bravo Palm for moving from the Back of the race toward the Front... KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!! :-D
I use my itunes for my ipod and my pre as a smart phone. Who cares about itunes.
May I suggest to Palm to forget trying to find another work around and continue to improve webOS. You know when the apple clowns start coming on the blogs you got something good.
Peace
I haven't seen any mention here of Palm Music Assistant, available from http://palm.com/support under Phones-->Palm Pre-->Downloads.
It's cross-platform (Win/Mac). Its sole purpose is to move your Amazon downloads from your Pre into iTunes on your computer. Some notable points:
It enables Media Sync mode on your Pre, overriding iTunes
It creates a new "Amazon Music Purchases" playlist in iTunes
It removes the Amazon downloads from your Pre; to get them back you have to sync the new playlist
It's very limited but I used it once (I've only downloaded one song from Amazon..."Doorway"!) and it works fine, though it's a little clunky.
I'm bringing this up to point out that Palm Music Assistant demonstrates that Palm currently has some experience developing desktop solutions that will sync your music with iTunes. All the important pieces are there: Media Sync, transferring files, manipulating playlists. I'll speculate that PMA is a prototype and that the same folks at Palm who developed that are working on a full-blown iTunes music sync solution, independent of the USB hack. I won't at all be surprised to hear that PMA 2.0 is exactly that.
I agree with your assertion that this is not a "hack," in the sense that Palm didn't alter Apples product to allow iTunes syncing.
However, all the talk about monopolistic behavior on Apple's part is off base. You claim that "Apple's move is considered monopolistic because they have a majority share of online music sales and they are blocking a competitor actively." Having a majority share of ONLINE MUSIC SALES does not automatically make Apple a monopolist. Palm is not even a competitor in ONLINE MUSIC SALES for Apple to be "blocking actively." Apple holds no majority when it comes to PHONE SALES which is the market where Palm competes. Nothing Apple has done in changing iTunes does anything at all to "actively block" Palm where they compete. All Apple is doing is ensuring the product that they pay for in R&D works only with the product that they designed it for, in the way in which they intend.
Also, comparing this to Microsoft and the browser wars holds no water either. You cannot simply compare products A and B with products X and Y and claim that somehow their respective market conditions are similar, correlated, or even remotely related to each other. What got Microsoft into trouble was not simply blocking a browser from working with their operating system, instead it was using this as leverage with computer hardware manufacturers to sell more versions of their operating system. Also, Microsoft was accused of not giving Netscape the same technical information and access as they were other software companies. Apple is not allowing anyone else to do what Palm was attempting to do, and they are not leveraging iTunes syncing or online music sales to prevent other companies from selling their competing products. Apple is simply providing an ecosystem for their own products, using their own R&D money. You could argue that the DRM seen in many products, not just Apple's, was an attempt to leverage market share to prevent sales of competitors' products, but iTunes songs are now DRM-free.
Also, Microsoft was accused of using the threat of withholding Windows 95 licenses from hardware makers if they pre-installed Netscape on their computers instead of IE. Apple has done nothing like this. They allow third party software to access the files that iTunes handles and Palm would be no different had they created software to access those files. Instead Palm chose to emulate an Apple product and use Apple's continued R&D on the iTunes software to increase the utility of their own phone, the Pre.
You may find Apple's decision to be tasteless, but I don't believe that has anything to do with it being monopolistic. If you would care to point out how Apple's music sales have anything to do with "actively blocking" a competitor's phone sales, I'd enjoy the read.
Before I'm called some sort of fanboy of some product or another, I am not. I was going to buy a Pre, and may still, but currently use an iPhone due to the coverage in my area and the applications I rely on. I enjoy products from many companies but I do not enjoy the condescending ("Many of you may not be old enough to remember...") and ignorant posts that show up on this site and others.
Yes this is about business on both sides. However, there is some bad blood between Steve Jobs & Ruby. This didn't take long after Jobs came back.
Forgive me if I missed this (this article is at close to 200 comments now and I haven't read them all), but doesn't doubleTwist just act as a go-between the Pre and iTunes when syncing? Has anyone confirmed that it will continue to allow Pre syncing after the update?
ugh
DoubleTwist itself syncs. No need for iTunes. Luckily.
Meh.
I was happy to get that nasty software off my machine when I sold the iPhone.
Since I've never been a fan if iTunes or really of any Apple product that forces me to do things 'their' way - this is no real loss. I've always preferred just a simple USB sync - let me copy files how I want - when I want... in the format I want.
Besides - many of us who bought our PRE's did so because we DON'T appreciate the value that APPLE forces down our throats in so many ways...
I vote for PALM NOT to continue down this path... much more important to work on unique features that differentiates WEBOS
Go figure, someone always has to ruin the fun...
hey guys. try Media Monkey instead. it's far superior to iTunes.
Things have changed over here at precentral...
Welcome to where many bigger sites are, which comment sections are more usable for personal entertainment than gathering more information about the topic. Especially if the topic is somewhat iPhone related. Why that is... well... ;-)
By the way, I still miss a post about the dev meeting in NY...
well cr@&
Has anyone tried Salling Media Sync?
Does any one know if Amazon is going to develop a desktop manager just like itunes or if palm pre is gonna do it?.
i love palm pre and i don't want to buy an iphone
pleasssssse! WHERE WE CAN ASK PALM PRE TO DO THIS???
iTunes should be sued for this unfair tying arrangement. If I want to buy (and use) songs from iTunes I have to use an iPhone, not Palm Pre. They have tied the iTunes to the iPhone and unfairly blocked other users.
If there is any class action lawsuit against iTunes for this monopolistic behavior, sign me up.
If your itune songs are not DRM, you can just drag to the music folder on your palm.
No need to sync with itunes. This is one of the many reasons I dropped ipod and apple.
well that just absolutely sucks. I wish the palm phones were fully operational. Evidence shows they are not.
health insurance