Apple Blocks Palm Pre iTunes Syncing 306
It has begun. With the release of iTunes 8.2.1 (via TiPb), gut46 tells us, Palm Pre syncing with iTunes is indeed kaput. At least on this Pre user's Mac, iTunes sync isn't working after the 8.2.1 update.* According to Apple's surprisingly forthcoming release notes:
iTunes 8.2.1 provides a number of important bug fixes and addresses an issue with verification of Apple Devices.
We were wondering if this day would come after the back and forth between Apple and Palm on the issue. It's as-yet unclear exactly what method Apple is using to block Pre sync, but we suspect is wasn't easy. ...Which means we also suspect it might not be easy for Palm to turn it back on.
Well, webOS developers, a hard choice is in front of you. We already know you're awesome, now you just need to decide whether you direct your awesomeness at this cat-and-mouse game or focus on other things (like custom notification sounds).
For me, this news doesn't actually hit all that hard -- I already use doubleTwist for Palm Pre Media sync and recommend you do too until this issue gets sorted out. It may just be a long time, though. As noted in our comments - you also have the option of just not updating iTunes.
Thanks gut46!
*Quick update: plugging the Pre in does bring iTunes 8.2.1 to the front as though it wanted to work, but then iTunes simply doesn't show the Pre in the sidebar.
Update 2: Brent reminds us that Mac users may also want to check out The Missing Sync for Pre.
306 Comments
Totally expected. Was dumb for Palm then and still is. Get with Amazon and develop your own desktop manager Palm.
anyone though of just not updating itune jeeezz!!
bah-WEEP-grah-nah-WEEP-ninny-BAHN
Everyone who is complaining or siding one way or another is missing the biggest point here. Palm still doesn't support .m3u playlists. Now that the iTunes sync is gone, hopefully they'll get around to doing that so that the people who don't like/use iTunes (me me me!!) don't have to use it to get a darn playlist on our Pres.
You could always...you know...use one of the many other programs out there that has been working since day one.
This is ultimately a good thing. There are better apps than iTunes and there is no reason it should be the default. The only reason it is for so many people is because the iPod was their first experience with mp3s and digital music.
Attitudes like this are why Microsoft cant get rid of XP
Guess I can't shop in the iTunes store any more. Dammit, now I'll have to pay less elsewhere. My loss?
NOOOOoooOOOooOOOOoo! It's a pain to manually sync my podcasts with Double Twist!
Just don't update! You don't have an iPhone, or you wouldn't be here drooling over the pre all day!
That's right, Pre users. Never update your iTunes again....
If I could go back in time and get one of the older versions of itunes that just synced media and had a podcast directory, I'd be much happier. iTunes is ridiculously bloated.
thats not possible with mac users!!!!! eventually the software updater will force the update!!
Not our fault you bought a Mac. So much whinging and crying about how Windows sucks and Macs "just work".
Well, they only "just work" if you're doing what Apple wants you to do. Have fun in that walled garden while the rest of us have plenty of software that will sync, do playlists, and catch podcasts.
Apple never forces update. Just close window.
Apple's a monopolist. And, apparently, a bully.
The good news for Palm is that Apple has now validated what iPhone fanboys didn't want to admit: Palm is a competitor to be concerned about.
WTF - you want to expand on how Apple are a 'monopolist' and a 'bully' ?
If protecting the investment in software designed for your own hardware is not common sense then I don't know what is. They have every right to do this and given that the revenues from iTunes are not that great but that it drives hardware sales where the margins are considerably greater then it makes perfect sense.
Palm need to write their own music store/sync utility if they want the complete customer experience - not pilfer Apple tech.
From a business perspective it makes sense for Palm to forgo the effort and cost of developing it's own full featured media app to compete with iTunes. If a company can't create something that will distinguish itself from its competition then they shouldn't create it. Instead they chose the cost effective option of leveraging a competitors product, which is the smart move considering iTunes ample install-base across Windows and Mac.
Making the hardware appear as if it were an iPod was a quick and inexpensive solution that buys time until either a third party can step in or until the company can justify the expense of building their own dumbed down sync app.
The ultimate solution should be similar to what RIM did with BlackBerry; Provide a separate software package that leaches iTunes and syncs to the phone. I'd take that a step further though and put the software executable on the USB of the phone with zero install like a pocket app. Done right this could allow a user to sync with multiple machines and not have to worry about installing extra software to do it.
Oh and Google CEO sits on the board of Apple. Wonder if Apple will block Android phones from synching. SEC is already interested in Apple for many reasons.
Apple and Google are 10x than Microsoft ever was.
You should rethink your statement and do some homework first. The CEO of Pre was one of Apple's greatest and best engineers who invented the Ipod. This is guy is not some outsider. This is politics not simple "being a smart business man stuff". This is Apple saying take your nifty little device and stick it where the sun don't shine. Rubinstein, (Jon that is) was vetted by Jobs to build the ipod. He crafted the technology and worked to develop the software hardware relationship you so intelligently spoke of. Of course it would be political. Think of how many more songs Apple would be selling if the Pre still synced to it. Think of how much more MONEY (smart business) Apple would be making. They are not losing shit to Pre except face. Apple, as much as I love the company is stupid to make this move. It only makes them look uncool. That's Apple's whole gimmick, buy this and you will not only have the best technology but you will also be the coolest guy around all your dork PC friends.
This will only last for so long. Apple should learn that lawsuits and bully practices don't equal "cool" in cultural terms. Rubinstein knows this and that's why the PRE is cool.
How is this? Palm was using someone else's service, not monopolistic by Apple from stopping them, it's not like they had an agreement, and it Powers Apple's products including their phone and app store, Pre has their own apps, so why not get their own way of syncing music? Now see how stupid you sound when logic is presented?
Palm was not using or relying on iTunes for you to transfer your music and videos to the Pre.
Clearly, Apple did this in order for iTunes users to look dis-favorably upong non-Apple devices. That by concept, is monopolistic!!
The only way the Pre worked was by PRETENDING it was an iPod, at least RIM built an app so they could sync with iTunes, Apple didn't stop them and they are a bigger "threat"... if Palm makes an app all will be good for the Pre that's the issue at hand is them using the device and a "bug" to pretend it was an iPod for it to sync, maybe now they'll take the time and do things legit by making an app like everyone else. Also why aren;t you guys complaining you can't sync with the Zune Desktop? Oh I get it that doesn't count because it's not Apple, I see.
The point of WebOS is that it doesn't rely on iTunes or NEED to "pretend" for you to transfer information to your Pre!! Dragging and dropping files downloaded from iTunes is just as easy as syncing, for computer literate people. Why can't or won't you acknowledge that? Palm simply saw the shear size of the iTunes community and decided to make a work around. Palm is not SOLELY depending on iTunes anyone else's software for anything! Don't be a drama-queen.
The debate is syncing though, that's what it's all about. I'm not being a drama queen all the Pre fans are, because the new update doesn't trick iTunes into thinking the Pre is an iPod, in fact I was even on a side saying make an app like RIM did and you can sync with iTunes, but you don't want to see that I'm not being completely biased you want to make it something else to look good for Pre users, Pre got caught doing something they shouldn't have Apple stopped it and now it's time for them to make their own or make an app that allows them to sync like other companies, and you've still not told me why people aren't complaining they can't sync with the Zune's software, I mean it is the same as not being able to sync with iTunes.
"Pre got caught doing something they shouldn't have Apple stopped it"? Wait, who said that Palm shouldn't have coded their media sync mode to look like iPod's? What is inherently wrong in doing that? Please tell me. Again, Palm doesn't need an app or even need media sync AT ALL because of the nature of it's OS and UI. Furthermore, this is not a 'debate' because it is not up for change or discussion as to whether Palm/Apple should change something! Again, I have used iTunes for months, with no Pre, no iPod, no iPhone, and have been able to transfer music to my old mp3 player with no frustrations. Dragging and dropping tagged music is just as easy because Pre sorts the files for you.
See this idea that Apple developed iTunes solely for uses with their own hardware isn't the case. If it was the case the program wouldn't be available to those without an Apple product. The fact is that iTunes is marketed as a media player/data base program and the front for the iStore. It would be very interesting to see just how many of iTunes users do not in fact own an Apple product and uses the program to buy and play media files. I'm guessing that with the numbers they are selling, most of us would be surprised. Personally the only thing I'll miss about the iTunes sync is the playlists. What I won't miss is how slow the program starts and runs, AAC files, Genius pointing to the iStore everytime you do a search, only being able to sync with one computer and the way iTunes hides the file.
The debate is syncing though, that's what it's all about. I'm not being a drama queen all the Pre fans are, because the new update doesn't trick iTunes into thinking the Pre is an iPod, in fact I was even on a side saying make an app like RIM did and you can sync with iTunes, but you don't want to see that I'm not being completely biased you want to make it something else to look good for Pre users, Pre got caught doing something they shouldn't have Apple stopped it and now it's time for them to make their own or make an app that allows them to sync like other companies, and you've still not told me why people aren't complaining they can't sync with the Zune's software, I mean it is the same as not being able to sync with iTunes.
Yes! Simple isn't it! So easy to see how Apple has turned to the Dark Side.
No, that by concept is proprietary. Apple has no obligations whatsoever to allow non-Apple hardware work with their software.
Of course Apple has no obligation to cater to non-Apple hardware. But why shut out others that benefit from a product that you sell, just because you are using a hardware that they don't sell? This is more than proprietary! It's like Microsoft saying that they are all of a sudden disabling all software that is running on non-Microsoft operating systems, just so you have to go buy a Windows OS. That's why Microsoft got sued for being monopolistic in the past.
Apple doesn't benefit in selling music in itunes, they benefit in selling ipods/iphones. Apple allowing others to sync 3rd party or pre-tending hardware does not give them profit. Besides, there are other ways to sync media on the pre. They just exploited a bug in the itunes software.
Uuuh, they get almost half of of the price sold. Uuuh.
Come on, you are so wrong it's not funny.
You mean 35% of a $.99 single right? 65% of that goes to the recording company. Of that 35%, Apple needs to pay for the cost the server, bandwidth and credit card charges. Compared that to the revenue from hardware that they are selling, they get more money out of the hardware. What's wrong with that?
WHAT?????? Are you kidding or just that brain washed?? The only retailer making any real money on recorded music sells is Apple. A majority of them maybe iPod users but not all of them.
"Piper Jaffray released its 13th annual survey of teenaged technology consumers today. The survey found Apple's iTunes store accounted for a whopping 90% of the online music downloads. Napster's share of the music-download market held steady at an anemic 3%, according to Piper."
They all but control the retail recorded music market. Don't believe me then go to the apple site - http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2008/04/03itunes.html
This is unrelated but made me laugh - http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10288022-37.html
By the way wasn't one of the points of the MSFT anti-trust Lawsuit over them bundling their own programs like IE with their OS? OH but this is Apple right? The kinder, gentler, major international corp.
I'm still very much sane thank you. You are correct, Apple does make money selling music on itunes. But compare that to how much they make for selling hardware, it makes more business sense that they sell the hardware. In order to preserve that, they have to protect their own software. I believe if Palm was in the same situation, they would not allow Apple to have a free ride on their software too.
Does anyone here know whether its better to rent an RV in California or Colorado to take a trip around the West for the month of August. I also was looking to know if anyone is interested in buying a custom '92 Harley FXRS with sidecar.
Its called a lock out. A lock out is when you create incompatiblities with other competitors products with your own product platform. This hurts consumers as they lose the choice of mixing products for their appropriate use. It would be like Microsoft making Mozilla products incompatiable with its operating system or Sony making its TVs the only display that works with the ps3, hurting Samsung, Vizio, LG, Pioneer, and etc. The only reason why nobody is noticing it is because Apple likes to pretend they are anti-corporate and they are actually a small company. If Microsoft made Windows Media player incompatible with other non-itunes base mp3 players, everyone would be in an uproar about it. To Hell with Apple for their hypocricy and double standards.
Please, don' use words you don't understand, which apparently includes 'monopolist' and 'bully'.
This was a no-brainer by apple. If palm can't make it on their own, their doomed. Palm will never be a competitor for apple to worry about. Take off your pre fanboy glasses and hope they simply sell enough to save the company.
So you honestly believe Palm needs iTunes for the Pre to "make it"? Take off your Palm-hater glasses!
Apparently *Palm* thought they needed iTunes to "make it", or they wouldn't have invested the development effort required to make iTunes sync possible.
"... invested the development effort..."?? Are you serious? Palm is being run by the guy who created the iPod. How much effort do you think it took to make Pre's media sync mode look like iPod's?!
Palm has it's own media contracts with Amazon, that has 90-95% of the media that iTunes has. Why would they invest MONEY with Amazon (forget about "development effort") if they were going to rely on iTunes to "make it"?! Be serious, man.
They're more likely to rely on iTunes outside the US. Amazon only sells it's music to customers with a valid US Credit Card and Billing Address. Kind of sucks for the rest of the world.
Palm was about to die. They hired an Apple guy to save the day, but his name is not Jobs so they will be punished for their sins.
Ah yes Danielson.
Apple's fearful reaction to the Pre is telling. The 3GS is a snore. AT&T sucks. The plastic is discoloring. The upload speeds are a crippled by short-changed chip choice. Instead of focusing on making quality products, they are now lashing out at competitors for daring to allow users to use their devices and media the way they want, not how Apple wants. With all the problems Apple is having, stomping out a handful of Pre users in their top priority? Cracking up, they are.
A 'snore'? The biggest weekend in AT&T's history was when the 3GS was released. Plastic is not discoloring- the 3'rd party cases caused that, so you can't blame that on Apple. AT&T has it's issues, not many will discount that (dont' get me started on 'short-changed chip choice'). Apple has always protected their intellectual property and this is no surprise to anyone, and you can't blame them. iTunes was never intended to synch any other device and blocking that sync is perfectly logical.
Apple is not having problems, but it's nice that you care so much.
Spot the iTroll in this picture. :-\
Dude, Let's say we're in a different time (and dimension), Palm is on top with the best media sync software and Apple is at the bottom, releasing a breakthrough product that will make or break the company. Apple gives a surprise announcement that their breakthrough product can sync with Palm's media sync software pre-tending to be one of Palm's hardware. Will Palm allow the pre-tender (from Apple) to latch on to their software? I don't think they will. Most likely they will do what Apple just did. What do you think?
YOU HAVE TO BE JOKING RIGHT? maybe you should send you CV to comedycentral, looks like you have a lot of talent! then maybe PALM should build there own SOFTWARE!!!! but hey just a thought!!!
Let's review something here:
- iTunes includes an unencrypted XML file listing the tracks in iTunes.
- The music is not encumbered by DRM (at least, the new stuff).
- Any desktop application has full access to that XML file, the file system, and the USB bus.
Add it all up, and there's one inescapable conclusion: Palm doesn't need iTunes to perform the sync of iTunes music to the Pre.
So Apple's denying them iTunes access. So what? They can write their own Pre music sync program. Just don't rely on Apple's code doing the work.
So true! Apple makes great products but they have learned many bad habits from the likes of Microsoft and other bullies in the tech industry. Sad to see it go down that way.
It was a nice kick in the balls to Apple, but like Cardfan said...It was expected for Apple to patch it. Anyone who thought otherwise was in denial.
Palm should strike a better deal with Amazon & make their own desktop app.
I'm not going to upgrade my itunes. I'm going to hold off for as long as i can.
I agree with the above...just dont udpate your itunes. It is that easy.
I just had the same thought. I'm guessing that you should sync your pre before updating the iTunes. You should be able to clean it out most of it. The other option and I think the only way to get rid of all of it would be a soft reset. Before you reset I really suggest that you have everything backed up and I think you will have to reinstall all the apps.
Here we go ladies and gents. Let the free Palm advertising begin!
It was fun while it lasted and I think Palm's mission was accomplished. Phase two is to clown Apple publicly in social media: "United breaks guitars...Apple breaks my Pre..."
I'm fine with walking away from iTunes. My question is, what's the proper way to clean up my Pre of any media iTunes has left stranded on it? Is there any gotcha if I mount my Pre with USB and simply trash the iPod_Control folder? Anything more or less I need to do?
What mission? To rely on third party apps for basics that Palm should be doing? In this case, it was a competitor's app.
This was screwed up from day one. Yes, itunes is popular but so what? So's the iphone. Why is giving customers a half baked experience on a competitor's app considered a good idea?
This is Palm's baby. Media mgmt, app catalog portal, Amazon video/audio portals, along with desktop syncing should've been a Palm desktop app all along. Forget an itunes experience..make it yours Palm.
The mission was purely PR. It was a clever and ballsy play to nab some 2007 iPhone 1.0 early adopters whose contracts were expiring. "iPhone user? Hey, the Pre will sync with your iTunes library!" If Apple blocked it, it's more David-and-Goliath PR win for Palm. And if Apple screwed up and there's just one genuine iPod that now won't sync with iTunes, then it's epic Apple fail.
Palm was ready for this and has the counter-move all lined up. Just watch.
"If Apple blocked it, it's more David-and-Goliath PR win for Palm. And if Apple screwed up and there's just one genuine iPod that now won't sync with iTunes, then it's epic Apple fail."
Are you really that stupid? Nothing will come out of this except the news that the pre will no longer work with itunes. There is not win for palm. None.
I thought apple had fanboys. Pre fanboys are far worse.
[deleted duplicate]
What mission??? To get its users to defend them blindly when they make a hack to access iTunes data rather than write their own conduit? To advertise a feature that's actually a fraud? And then to get their idiot fanbois angry at SOMEONE ELSE, when this is really Palm's fault? Get real. Like sdfisher said:
-----------------
Let's review something here:
- iTunes includes an unencrypted XML file listing the tracks in iTunes.
- The music is not encumbered by DRM (at least, the new stuff).
- Any desktop application has full access to that XML file, the file system, and the USB bus.
Add it all up, and there's one inescapable conclusion: Palm doesn't need iTunes to perform the sync of iTunes music to the Pre.
So Apple's denying them iTunes access. So what? They can write their own Pre music sync program. Just don't rely on Apple's code doing the work.
chickens.
chickens.
who cares? iTunes is the buggiest software I ever used. There is plenty apps to sync your palm.
Unfortunately many technology sheep use iTunes. And purchase music that isn't really theirs after they buy it. Unfortunately.
"And purchase music that isn't really theirs after they buy it."
You realize this isn't true any longer, correct? You might want to do a little research before spouting nonsense.
Hmm. If the music is really mine, then why the hell does Apple care what device I'm syncing it to?
Uh, they don't. The non-DRM files play perfectly fine on any device that supports AAC, including Pre. You can move them around in the Finder or Explorer or any app that handles media files. Apple's just not supply free sycning software for a competitors product.
See this is more of Apple's "sure you can have any color you want as long as it's black", AAC files? If Apple was really as open and uninterested in controlling where the files they sell end up, why are they not selling the much wider used MP3s? You know the file that can be played on just about any device or computer without downloading iTunes.
AAC is higher quality and most modern music player can play it, retard.
Uh, AAC is a Dolby standard. Not an Apple standard. And a heck of a lot more people than Apple use it. My Cannon HG10 uses it. In fact, lots of consumer devices use AAC.
Of course the music is yours.
I'm sure I can copy the NON-DRMed music I buy via iTunes,
to any other device in the world, including a Palm Pre.
I'm just not going to be able to buy it directly from iTunes,
using a Palm Pre. That's hardly unexpected -- even by Palm.
They bought a little time to develop other solutions, is all.
I'll never buy a Palm Product myself. No class displayed.
Sunny Guy
So if that is true, how do I put the iTunes music I purchased before I understood the evils of DRM onto my Pre? If it is really mine. Sure it doesn't matter for stuff purchased now. But I can no long listen to $70 worth of music, without purchasing an Apple device or going through a crazy conversion via CDs.
Say what? Do you even pay attention to what you write? Let's see... I go to iTunes and buy a track. It has no DRM. Who precisely owns this, if I don't?
And the tracks I bought 2 years ago, protected by the FairPlay DRM? That was the most liberal DRM anybody ever offered. Easier DRM to strip. Simply burn it to a CD and then rip it again. BOOM. DRM all gone. Could you do that to any of your subscription-based purchases? As far as I know, the answer is a resounding no.
You like your Pre, fine. But guys are just hysterical with your hatred. Grow up. Palm wrote a hack. Technically, they exposed a bug in who iTunes recognized devices. Apple just patched that bug. But as has already been pointed out, Palm HAS ACCESS to iTunes playlists and files. It's available. They just suck too much to write their own conduit. Don't hate Apple because of what Palm just brought down on you guys. If they'd acted differently, Apple might have tolerated them. But they were loud and snotty. Why was Apple obligated to case a blind eye toward Palm's hackery?
Asked Palm for comment - it's early so all they could do was repeat the comment linked above "back and forth" - with just a minor change.
Palm's statement:
Palm's media sync works with iTunes 8.2. If Apple chooses to disable media sync in iTunes, it will be a direct blow to their users who will be deprived of a seamless synchronization experience. However, people will have options. They can stay with the iTunes version that works to sync their music on their Pre, they can transfer the music via USB, and there are other third-party applications we can consider."
Understandable that that's all they can say this early, IMO. For me, I agree with you guys who said it was inevitable and honestly I can't decide whether I want Palm to fight this particular fight.
They should use their time and little money to create their own app for this. I feel that Palm was so hard up for a total cloud experience with this phone, they didn't see the true need for SOME computer apps to be built (data sync)
Palm really should get something of their own up and running. I do think it was pretty cool they beat on Apple's toes by pointing out the Pre did sync with iTunes while it did.
Suck it up, brahs. You had a free ride for a while, but the conductor found you and kicked you off the train. You'll have to find another ride, or lobby Palm to deliver it to you.
........................................................... blah blah blah...................................................
Too bad Apple left all of their old reliable trains still running.... version 7.0 on up to 8.2.0.... that's a crap load of trains.
Too bad Apple doesn't force us to update like Palm does ha sucks 4 them . I just updated last week to 8.1 so ill be good
Apple is demonstrating their weakness. Just goes to show they are getting scared of Palm Pre's competition. If they were truly confident in themselves, they wouldn't care about something as minor as a differen't phone syncing with mp3 software. Cowards! It makes me laugh, even though I've never used that stupid software to begin with.
I also couldn't care less about iTunes syncing. I love how Palm played it. It works. Apple can break it. Then you can ask them why. Brilliant.
And while you're at it, why don't you ask the subway people
when they're going to patch the loophole that let's people
ride for free, by jumping over the turnstyle.
"Of course it's their fault. I wouldn't even be cheating -- if they
they hadn't made it possible for me to cheat.
"They're discriminating against people who'd rather spend their
money on something better than subway tokens."
1/2 :-)
Sunny Guy
The implication here being that folks who use Pre-iTunes sync are getting something that normally costs for free -- essentially stealing it. Last I checked, iTunes itself was free. So what is Palm stealing again? What code is running on the Pre that is owned by Apple?
I fail to see the logic in your argument. For Palm to have stolen "Apple's intellectual property", they would have had to have taken Apple's code and respin it as their own. Last I checked, there was no Apple code running on the Pre.
So, iTunes is free, and I own the songs I buy through it. Where is the theft again?
If it was legal (and it's completely up to Apple to decide what can and cannot be done with its software) then Palm wouldn't have to use a hack in order to trick the iTunes software into thinking it's something else (i.e. a device that the software is actually designed to serve - an iPod). Palm was completely in the wrong, and Apple played this completely by the book.
If it was illegal, somebody would be getting charged or sued. This has nothing to do with the law. Nothing was stolen.
Apple changed their software. I never said they didn't have the right to do so, nor did I say that they were wrong for doing so. I question the business sense of it, in that they are losing music sales in the long run ostensibly to increase device sales.
Legality has nothing to do with this. Whether it was "right" or not is somewhat subjective, but it certainly wasn't illegal.
Yeah seemed like tgis was going to happen but I think this really is good for palm... It is going to be talked about on every gadget podcast/site and news about gadget site... Hell maybe double twist will get some free advertising. And yeah like a previous poster said apple is conceding its fear... They finally admit to the public they fear the pre.
Yeah seemed like tgis was going to happen but I think this really is good for palm... It is going to be talked about on every gadget podcast/site and news about gadget site... Hell maybe double twist will get some free advertising. And yeah like a previous poster said apple is conceding its fear... They finally admit to the public they fear the pre.
Sorry but Apple isnt the "devil" nor are they scared of the Pre. Theyve sold 100 times more iphones than the Pre, so they arent worried. Its just a fact, Apple's sales arent hurting one bit.
What did you expect? Palm OBVIOUSLY did this without Apple's permission or a license, and itunes is Apple's own software. They can do whatever they want with it, especially if it was being used without permission.
Maybe people should be complaining PALM is the one not giving a native solution for media syncing, not trying to ride Apple, hmmm?
Why do you stupid apple fanboys even comment on our site? Go away! no one wants you here!
stupid fanboys who cant see past relying on a competitor's software with licensing it? Ya ok!
Hmm, relying on competitors software.. Then what would happen if Microsoft blocked all non microsoft web browsers for use in Windows.... Oh yeah, they gor sued.
Well hell, apple should have just made their own OS to install iPods on and iTunes... Oh they do? Then why use a competitors OS to leach off of. Could it be that despite a supirior OS, they still only account for 6% of the computing market?
The sign of an apple Fanboy is believeing and promoting the idea that apple is a victom. But Palm could not make media syncing software that works with iTunes, or the iTunes store. And it would miss out on a crowd who are so smart that they think the Zune sucks cause it won't play iTunes music... And missing out on a crowd that for many years was Forced to download iTunes because it was bubdled in with Quicktine.
I don't hate Apple. But they are a company allowed to get away with things most other companies aren't. I only await the day that they are finally brought to earth. Microsoft was not allowed to lock the worlds most popular OS to a web browser or media player, Apple should not be allowed to lock the worlds most popular music store to one set of Hardware devices.
Personally I think the biggest mistake Apple is making is that they are still a hardware company. While it is certainly true that they sell hardware (at a premium), what makes Apple gear so good is the software.
Apple should allow OEMs to license OS X.
The irony of the whole Mac vs PC thing is that the Mac IS A PC! PC means personal computer. Mac was the new deal after the Apple II series. Back then, there were many other contenders. IBM only made it thanks to their big blue status. And Microsoft, Apple's earliest major 3rd party app vendor, came up with a crappy CP/M alternative for the original IBM PC.
What Microsoft did right was arrange a non-exclusive license. So when Compaq came along with a cloned BIOS, MS-DOS worked on it. And thus started the meteoric rise of Microsoft.
Apple software IS better. Not perfect of course. There is no such thing as that. In fact a good way to go is with a Linux distro like Ubuntu and cheap hardware.
OS X is cut from similar cloth though. Linux is a POSIX implementation. Buried in OS X is a Mach kernel with BSD (another POSIX implementation) and some other stuff.
The huge jump in OS X sales is due to the iPhone and iPod touch. iPhone OS is a flavor of OS X. There is a large intersection between the two systems.
Apple has simply become too corporate. They are now seriously risk adverse. OS X is only available on Apple hardware unless you go the hacking route. The shame of it is, Apple could make a lot of money licensing OS X to OEMs that make hardware like notebooks, tablets, desktops, etc. OS X is very portable.
The money that Apple loses to hardware sales thanks to their premium prices could easily be made up for in licensing fees. That's where Microsoft makes their money.
OS X also includes development tools out of the box. Windows does not. You want a system you can program for? Linux and OS X are the players. Windows is not. Getting a development environment for Windows costs serious $$$. With Linux and OS X, you get it out of the box.
If Palm is smart, they will also be giving away free development tools for their devices. They will let you debug off of the device. That should be no problem. Apple relies on GCC for this. Guess what? GCC is FREE!!! Not just free as in beer. But really FREE as in you can do what you want with it.
Xcode is just a nice front end for GCC. It's different from Emacs but it works.
Personally, I would like to see more variety in the marketplace. I think Apple can promote this without losing money or sales. They would gain respect and good karma in return. This would make Apple more profitable in the future.
The alternative is being mowed down by Google and Amazon.
I restate my earlier ....................................................................blah blah blah..................................
Wrong.
Windows is Microsoft's software but do you think they're allowed to block competitors browsers? Of course not. There are laws against that sort of thing.
The same laws apply to Apple, all the way down to their closed application store. Nobody has cared enough to battle them yet, but they would most assuredly not be able to keep exclusivity on application distribution or dictate which devices can be used with iTunes.
Haha, I was waiting for them to do this. Now palm HAS TO make some software to sync with. Maybe something that can use the iTunes database to work XD
Missing Sync for Pre is available for Mac users. There is no Windows version yet, but it is being worked on according to: http://www.markspace.com/products/pre/mac/palm-pre-sync-overview.html
This was entirely predictable. Which only raises the question, what in the world was Palm management thinking when they released this "feature"? Relying on the beneficence of a direct competitor to implement syncing for you is just plain idiotic. There should be some heads rolling in Palm management.
Syncing to iTunes was a win-win situation for Palm. Either it keeps working and their customers have an extra sync option or Apple "breaks" it and the David vs. Goliath stories begin. We now know the second scenario is in play. It's genious.
Because it was worth it in advertising to show how Apple wants you to only lock into their hardware. Worth all the effort just in the PR and geek blog buzz that it will generate.
Unfortunately the vast majority of consumers don't see things in terms of these dramatic metaphysical battles like you guys do. They just want a product that works as advertised.
Sync to the Zune software!
Jon, you are forgetting that blackberries can sync with iTunes without a license.Apple obviously isn't hurting today because of the pre. The Pre is nearing half a million sales while on the 2nd smallest carrier in the U.S. When the pre is around update 1.5-2.0 and on 20 carriers in 10 countries that is what apple is scared of and that is what is inevitable. Lets say every carrier sells 1,000,000 Pre's over the course of a year. 20,000,000 phones sold in the world your gunna tell me this doesn't scare apple?? Okay!
It doesn't scare apple and blackberry's can't sync with itunes without Media Sync or some other 3rd party software. Let both companies innovate and improve- that benefits everyone.
Just use Double Twist guys. It's better than iTunes if you're using a Pre.
Just wish double twist could encode without the Pre attached. I don't want to hang my Pre on the computer for a couple hours to encode a bunch of TV and Movies on my Pre.
SyperSync (Mac/Win http://www.supersync.com/ ) ought to work just fine too. I'll try it when I get home tonight.
Palm Pre was pretending to be an iPod to work with iTunes. Both companies knew what they were doing. If Apple let Palm get away with it, what other companies would try to trick iTunes. If you such big iTunes fans, stick your iPods, or maybe get an iPhone.
OR maybe
Tell Palm to actually put effort into making syncing software instead of tying to trick their competition's software.
For whoever said iTunes was buggy software? Maybe its your low-end PC, not iTunes.
And a hearty ....................................blah blah blah.............................. to you too sir.
This is all I have to say to Apple: http://www.oldapps.com/itunes.php
Good find, now I do not really care if the Pre can or cannot sync with iTunes, I do not use iTunes. I am wondering if Apple is violating the Law by specifically blocking a particular device. Apple allows other devices to sync with iTunes, why are Apple only targeting the Pre?
Calling yourself Informed is really laughable.
BlackBerry uses their own software, BlackBerry Media Sync, to sync with the iTunes Library file. It does the same for Windows Media Player. Since the iTunes Library is an xml file, anything can read it, and lots of different applications do.
Palm uses the iTunes application directly and misrepresents the Pre as a device that it's not.
There is a clear difference between the two, you understand that right?
Palm should have provided their own syncing solution as other phone makers do.
Oh, and by stating that you don't really care if the Pre syncs with iTunes because you don't use iTunes is even more uninformed. Any feature that appeals to millions of other people leads to increased sales, which leads to increased developer support, which leads to a successful product with a robust future.
And the guv'mint ought to investigate those big city subways,
that discriminate against people whose preference is not to
squander money on tokens. Monopolistic behavior, isn't it?
Sunny Guy
Ok, I'll tell you what i think... Palm had to rush and push the PRE out to get it out b4 the new Iphone and had deadlines to meet... hopefully they used Itunes as a quick fix for Pre users to use while they worked on their own Desktop Application. Hopefully we will see an app released soon that helps us Sync all of our Media seamlessly. Thank you Palm... LOVE YOU!!! :-D ????
This was expected.. moving on, the sync feature wasn't complete in the first place with apples iron fist on controlling everything.. Apple needs to choke on one.
Have a nice day :)
You DO realize that the DRM on Apple iTunes music was imposed by the music labels, not by Apple? Apple was the company that lobbied for the music labels to offer the DRM free music that is now available on the iTunes store.
And you realize that iTunes only started offering DRM free music after major players like Amazon? And once they started offering DRM free music, you had to pay extra for it?
Only when the masses said, "um, no, we'll pay less and get more" did Apple respond by removing the DRM on the entire catalog at the standard 99 cent price. And if you want to remove the DRM from all the songs you had previously bought? Well, you could do that, too.
For a price...
Apple gets kudos for figuring out that people were willing to pay per song (and that many would choose to pay for a legit copy over grabbing a pirated version through a peer-to-peer network), but let's not pretend that Apple actually cares about people. They are a business, and a very large corporation at that. They engage in rigorous monopolistic practices. They are not the innocent lamb. Any company with billions in cash on hand is not a lamb.
I thought it was a clever hack by Palm. An interesting move. And this rebuttal was quite expected. But it's irrelevant, I prefer the Amazon service, and that ten cent a song difference can add up over time.
Oh, and for the record, iTunes is one of the most bloated media players I have come across. Don't have it installed (except on my old PowerBook which had it factory installed). And on that, I don't update it. I simply don't use it.
One more reason why I wholeheartedly am against Apple and iTunes. I long ago stopped buying music from iTunes because I had bought 2 ipods both of which had died (and believe me they were well protected and cared for) and both times had to struggle with getting the non-DRM music reloaded. I have always thought it was rediculous to pay for music that I can only run on their device when options like Amazon were already out there. Yes, their UI was nice, but I refuse to give money to a company that continues its monopolistic run. Yes, you can't fault them for wisely marketing a device and music component and having a real strategy about how to create a device and leverage the natural extensions of the product, but that does not give them license to pull the crap they do.
I agree with the person who said Amazon should develop a music player. They should do so and let it sync with anyone/everyone and then we'll see how much nicer Apple decides to play.
I don't know about an Amazon music player. Look at the Kindle. They had the same DRM control fanatical outlook that Apple has with music. Bought up Mobipocket and only release new players that play Kindle content, but not mobi. The difference is one value between the two.
This assures there will be no new development of a mobi pocket player for new platforms (i.e. Pre) and that the protected books you purchased are no longer viewable on new platforms. One of the many ways the DRM is evil.
DRM IS evil. It prevents fair use. One fair use is making a backup or copying the work to a new device when you upgrade from the old.
I know that fair use is only a defense. But the DMCA took that away.
Yeah this broke Pre synching but I've gotten some legit errors on iPod synching this update probably also addresses.
I doubt the update was all about Pre. I don't think apple cares that much about Palm at all but broke Pre syncing because they were already updating that component.
that's a load of bull...
Apple absolutely did the right thing by blocking the Pre from syncing through iTunes. Palm was stupid enough to use a HACK and sell it as a feature, so they deserve this. It doesn't mean Apple is shaking in their boots in fear of the Pre. It means Apple does not want their intellectual property ripped off and then used to benefit their competitors. Palm can't piggyback on Apple's success. They need to build their own syncing application for PC/Mac.
So how do you explain Apple being fine with many, many other devices syncing with iTunes? (Sorry, I should have written "many, many other devices ripping off their intellectual property".)
Of what non-iPod/iPhone devices do you speak? Surely not that Nomads and other players that are left over from when iTunes used to be SoundJam?
Explain how Palm "hacked" iTunes? When did Palm ever "sell" that as a feature?... What commercials/advertising? If Palm were ripping off Apples so-called "intellectual" property, 1) It wouldn't be a hack, 2) Don't you think Apple would have sued Palm? Apple may be violating the Competition law (US Antitrust Law), Apple allows other devices to sync, but they block the Pre?
Those other devices get licenses from Apple to work with iTunes. In other words, they do it the RIGHT way. Palm accomplished their syncing (yes, with a hack) by attempting to fool iTunes into thinking the Pre is an iPod. That is how it's ripping off intellectual property.
Why do you keep talking from your rear? Apple licensed iTunes, those other devices do not need a license? Most consumers of those 3rd party devices do not use iTunes, do you honestly think the manufacturer of that device is going to pay a licensing fee for the hell of it? Again, Palm allows the Pre to be recognized by iTunes, just like the Pre shows itself in Windows, did Palm hack Windows as well?
"those other devices do not need a license?" -Was not meant to be a question!
Um, you have no idea what you're talking about. You're comparing Windows recognizing the Pre to iTunes being tricked into thinking the Pre is an iPod? One is an operating system (Mac OS X recognizes the Pre too, just like Windows) and one is a closed piece of software built specifically for Apple's devices. It is a well known fact that Palm used Apple-specific USB/Vendor IDs from the iPod to make the Pre appear as one in iTunes. That is a hack. A clever hack, but a hack nonetheless. Period.
"It is a well known fact that Palm used Apple-specific USB/Vendor IDs from the iPod to make the Pre appear as one in iTunes." Let's see this well known fact!
Unlike you, I'm not full of crap. Here is your evidence: http://www.macrumors.com/2009/05/29/palm-pre-emulating-an-ipod-to-accomp...
From that "Apple" related blog, "according to Johansen, the Palm Pre must be specifically presenting itself as an Apple iPod to trick iTunes into syncing data with it." You need to understand the difference between fact and speculation, that article is speculating. FACT, Palm never has said how the Pre syncs with iTunes. Find one article where Palm has said so.... Just What I thought, you CAN"T!
@ Informed
For your perusal
http://nanocr.eu/2009/06/04/palm-pre-usb-hack-confirmed/
http://nanocr.eu/2009/05/28/syncing-music-and-video-to-the-palm-pre/
http://gizmodo.com/5272495/how-and-why-the-palm-pre-syncs-directly-with-...
http://arvino.typepad.com/digital_living/2009/06/how-does-palm-pre-enabl...
Where is "Palms" confirmation?!? You Apple fanboys are crazy. Those links lead to speculation, nothing else!
You are an imbecile. Over and out.
and Informed, chew on this too ... or maybe actually read it. Something that most people do to stay informed:
http://www.precentral.net/speculation-how-itunes-pre-media-sync-works
Logical speculation in the absence of a confirmed explanation is as close to facts as we can ever get.
Apply Occam's Razor, a very handy tool to bypass emotional excess in the pursuit of truth.
It is so hard not to play the ad hominem card here, but you are a such total assmunch that anything you ever assert as true is probably wrong. I can definitively support this by referencing your chosen username.
Pull your head out of Palm's ass, retard.
The reason to stick with documented APIs is so that the implementation can be changed at will while allowing the APIs to continue to work.
Palm never advertised it as a feature. It was just a bonus feature that they announced in a press release. If they "advertised" it, they'd have to support it as a feature after Apple pulled the plug. This was just a pie in the face for Apple by the ex-Apples at Palm and a return pie throw was all too predictable. But, there are workarounds, including picking up an older copy of itunes or blocking updates on your itunes. And blocking Pre, cuts off apple from all the music Pre owners were buying with the money they saved by not overpaying ATT for smartphone service.
I'm an iPod fan, but hate itunes with a passion, so I can chuckle about this, and I'll keep my current bloated copy of itunes incase I ever lose half my brain contents and decide I want to use itunes when I dont really have to.
I still don't see any reason to use this spam/spyware from Apple. In the past it may have been a well written and useful app. But things have changed.
Just don't upload new verison
If you're on a Mac, you can type this command at the terminal to prevent Software Update from asking you to upgrade iTunes:
softwareupdate --ignore iTunesX
iTunes itself will still prompt you if you have the "Check for new software updates automatically" setting selected.
Apple gets on my nerves. I own an iPod Touch and a Pre. I don't want to keep track of another music library in another program. This is a prime example on how closed minded Apple is. I purchased my Apple product, and I've purchased my share of music on the iTunes store. The software should allow me to sync my music to any device I choose, including the Pre!
Hee hee hee, it sure is fun to watch Apple look like a big company. Remember when Apple was simple and easy and friendly?
BTW for the record iTunes sync with the Pre was hardly seamless for me. We have multiple user accounts on our family Mac and invariably when I plugged in my Pre and tapped Media Sync, iTunes would launch offscreen in my wife's account instead of mine, forcing me to switch users, unplug, replug, etc. Not fun.
Unfortunately this IS a big deal for the Pre. People who comment on precentral may feel perfectly comfortable using DoubleTwist or the missing sync, but average joe or jane smartphone buyer out there would rather just have a device that is easy to use with an easy sync to a program they are already used to.
I love my Pre and will probably use DoubleTwist, but to hope that Palm will come out with an iTunes-like software is probably wishful thinking. For all the iTUnes hate on this comment board, think of how many inferior music management programs have been crushed by iTunes. Not to mention that 90+% of people who are buying smartphones already have/had an iPod and are used to iTunes. Bad news for competition, but apparently that is not what Apple wants.
At the end of the day I agree with the posters above who said that it was stupid for Palm to advertise iTunes sync. Why in the world would Apple allow that to go on? No one but the media cares about the David-Goliath storyline. Truth is, Palm owned the smartphone/PDA world and ceded domination of it because Palm was stupid and slow until they woke up and made the Pre. It's more like Stupid-for-too long-Goliath vs. Smart-opportunistic Goliath, not David vs. Goliath.
Palm was purchased by 3-COM. That was its doom.
For goodness sake. This to me is EXACTLY why i'm not going for a Pre or for that matter anything made by Palm.
At first I was shocked to hear that the Pre doesn't have it's own client, or at least a decent plugin for something like WMP.
Can't be arsed to write your own client? well why not rip off someone elses without even asking them? - Apple have every right to do this and Palm have shown their true colours by trying to rip off someone elses work...
Pre owners beware, you'll end up like everyone else who ever bough a palm product, left on the sidelines waiting for software updates that never turn up and being forced to upgrade to newer hardware. This happened to me THREE times before I finally got the hint! Palm don't have a clue what they are doing and this shows in a badly executed product.
And to those bitching about podcasts, well, you know, they're something that apple devised released and run now, if you want that kind of stuff buy an iPod, if not force the other players in the market to get off their arse and do something other than bitch at Apple for once...
Palm were dying for a reason, everyone should have left them to it rather than flocking to another device Palm will get bored of....