Apple Blocks Palm Pre iTunes Syncing | webOS Nation
 
 

Apple Blocks Palm Pre iTunes Syncing 305

by Dieter Bohn Wed, 15 Jul 2009 2:38 pm EDT

It has begun.  With the release of iTunes 8.2.1 (via TiPb), gut46 tells us, Palm Pre syncing with iTunes is indeed kaput. At least on this Pre user's Mac, iTunes sync isn't working after the 8.2.1 update.* According to Apple's surprisingly forthcoming release notes:

iTunes 8.2.1 provides a number of important bug fixes and addresses an issue with verification of Apple Devices.

We were wondering if this day would come after the back and forth between Apple and Palm on the issue.  It's as-yet unclear exactly what method Apple is using to block Pre sync, but we suspect is wasn't easy.  ...Which means we also suspect it might not be easy for Palm to turn it back on.

Well, webOS developers, a hard choice is in front of you.  We already know you're awesome, now you just need to decide whether you direct your awesomeness at this cat-and-mouse game or focus on other things (like custom notification sounds).

For me, this news doesn't actually hit all that hard -- I already use doubleTwist for Palm Pre Media sync and recommend you do too until this issue gets sorted out.  It may just be a long time, though. As noted in our comments - you also have the option of just not updating iTunes.

Thanks gut46!

*Quick update: plugging the Pre in does bring iTunes 8.2.1 to the front as though it wanted to work, but then iTunes simply doesn't show the Pre in the sidebar.

Update 2: Brent reminds us that Mac users may also want to check out The Missing Sync for Pre.

Category:

305 Comments

You use your "Anonymous" profile to say that Palm should "develop their own client..." and not rip off Apple. Here: http://www.precentral.net/doubletwist-manages-pre-media-freely-easily-tr... There is no need for Palm to rip off Apple.

You are not "going" for the Pre, yet you make comments on this site about the logistics of the Pre and it's software, why?! So you think non-iPod and non-iPhone users that use iTunes have not been able use move their music from their computers to their mp3 players? Of course they have!

Palm uses WebOS, 99% of the syncing is done over the web! Palm obviously wants people to download music from Amazon. But it still supports drag and drop for computer based music downloading!! Don't act like without iTunes sync, people that use iTunes won't be able to listen to their music on the Pre!! Trust me no mp3 player user sees this as a loss for the Pre or their mp3 player. If anything this is a loss for Apple for being discriminatory against syncing with non-Apple devices!

Let's get real people!

Sorry, by default it changes to anon, I hadn't realised...

Here, is that better?!

I'm allowed to comment, I've read a lot about the Pre from many different sources, in my opinion the product and the launch seems disorganised and worringly they couldn't even give a date for the UK version, presumably because they didn't have enough cash in the bank to actually start making the handset in time....

I didn't say they hadn't, what I was saying is that if you want to use the SYNC feature of iTunes you should buy an iPod..

Fine, then why are there people on here bitching about not being able to use iTunes for their pre then? I mean, seriously, if Palm want to try and esentially sell a hack then thats their problem, they should fix it and customers should be informed that they will have to put up with gaps while palm patch.

Well, I think your sweeping statement of "Trust me nobody sees this as a loss" is slightly incorrect ,if it's all the same, I won't trust you and i'll base opinion on what I read ...

The simple fact is that this has caused a lot of people to come on here and comment, some of these people are even saying this is a problem!

Perhaps Palm should realise that the user community don't want to do everything over the web? I still have a bookshelf full of CD's I like, and I prefer them in non DRM lossless thanks, not horridly compressed MP3's.

iTunes is an iPhone/iPod client, Palm need to stop ebing the same old Palm and ripping other people off, GARRR they really irritate me to the core, as I said before, they were dying, people should have done the right thing and done the whole smartphone industry a favour.

There is no need to sync with iTunes. Period. I use iTunes, I have been dragging and dropping onto my mp3 player forever it seems. What is the big deal? You can download DRM-free music, have iTunes tag the music, then drag and drop the files onto the Pre. Pre sorts the songs based on the music by tags anyway. AGAIN, WHAT IS THE BID DEAL? Don't sweat the small shit people!

It is amazing the amount of deluded palm fans here, try to turn this into a david and goliath story. It isn't, and no one cares.

Bottom line, it doesn't matter if itunes sucks or not. It's everywhere. That the pre can not be used with itunes now is a huge blow to palm. You guys really think consumers are going to think "apple's a bully, I'm buying a pre"? No, they're on itunes, and now they're going to avoid the pre.

Unless you're a palm fanboy, or simply ignorant, there's no way to spin this except a miserable decision by palm in the first place. Aww the rah- rah lets go pre down with apple rhetoric is great on this site. In the real world, it means little.

Keep deluding yourselves. The sky isn't falling, right?

EXACTLY... It's purely that, people think that Palm have changed since their days of ripping off customers and then running for the hills when they found they actually needed to suppport them...

The same people run this company, the same values still exist and after working for a large business who used Palm handhelds (and eventually saw the light with a certain canadian company) their enterprise support SUCKED even more (if indeed that's possible)

Buy the Pre but I won't be suprised when Palm suddenly gets bored and decides it's newest venture needs it to go dark for 15 years!

Mission accomplished Apple. I've bought my last song off Itunes.

Apple doesn't care if you buy music from iTunes. They make very little money from running the iTunes Store. Their profit comes from the hardware, iPods & iPhones.

There is better profit in music sales than all the other stuff. Its all automated and highly scalable. By excluding a segment of their own market, they run the risk of somebody replicating itunes to exploit "the void" and face a competitor rather then extra customers.

Use Winamp. http://www.winamp.com

It works better than iTunes, supports nearly every audio format known to man, it's free, it syncs flawlessly with the Pre, and it actively watches your music folder so when you add new files it updates for you. Oh yeah, and it will sync podcasts just like iTunes, without the Big Brother of Apple killing your hopes and dreams.

No need for DoubleTwist!

Also, for those still spending $0.99 a song, grow up and look around. If you're paying more than $0.30 then you're getting ripped off. Try e-music.com, mp3panda.com, the list is endless.

I hate apple its like an evil empire of death... I use to use Apple products but they act as if they are gods and we were just nothing that's why i use Ubuntu www.ubuntu.com Because i hate Apple and Microsoft... Every time i see some one using a mac book i just feel sorry for them....

Don't worry. Us Apple people really don't like you either and feel pity for you.

Let's get one thing straight here. Apple isn't shaking in their boots in fear of the Pre. Apple is shaking in their boots in fear of the CEO of the company that makes the Pre. BIG, BIG difference there fellas. Regardless of whether the capability is restored or not, Apple's got a fight on their hands they didn't exactly want to participate in. I love competition and free markets!! Perhaps Obama needs to weigh in with a mobile device content syncing Czar. His administration likes to get their hands into everything.

The last thing we need is Obama weighing in with anything,

iTunes sucks anyway plus I can't even get a Pre in Canada yet so it's a bit moot at this point for me (when are they coming here btw? anyone know?).

Does Songbird sync with the Pre? Songbird isn't too bad and if you like iTunes it should suit your needs perfectly since it's basically an open-source version of iTunes that -unlike the real thing- doesn't act like a virus.

I agree that Palm should probably come up with it's own software though, or maybe it can convince Microsoft to let it share the Zune software. (I don't have a Zune but I do use the Zune software for all my media and it's pretty great! and incase you were wondering I use an iRiver)

I think it would be quite the coup if Palm and the big M pushed Zune and Pre against Apple and it's hegemonic but crappy/slow/irritating/buggy/virus-like/etc. iTunes. Add in some Zune Marketplace support in Canada and you're golden!

"I think it would be quite the coup if Palm and the big M pushed Zune and Pre against Apple"

Oh, please show me where to sign up for this dated partnership? I would be guaranteed dated, old-school, buggy software that's fer sure.

Zune! Hahahahaha Good one.

Why do some think the Pre needs an iTunes like platform to be functional? The iphone needs iTunes for updates and because Apple is forcing iphone owners to use Apple related software. The Palm Pre lets you side load music/videos from any computer. I have been using Amazon with the Pre, I believe it is much more functional than iTunes.

Well the question the keeps getting raised and never answered is; Why do other non apple devices continue to work when the pre was shut out specificly?"

And to top this off, the real question is what purpose does ITUNES serve?
Primarily it is a music/media store, that will then organize and play your music for you as well as syncing it to the device you want to play it on. As you paid for the music you should be able to sync it through the program with any device that was written with the purpose of working with the software.

Apple doesn't need to code in a way for the Pre to work, thats Palm's job. But if Palm makes it work (which they did) without asking you to do anything, then breaking it for no other reason then to not let use it is just plain stupid!

Anyone syncing Itunes to a Pre already has a Pre... your not loosing an Iphone customer, you gaining a Pre using Itunes customer, who will now pay you for music and videos and content.

sums up what i was going to say. well stated.

hmmm maybe moving towards...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_antitrust_law

Apple is NOT singling out Palm.

Other devices do NOT use iTunes to sync to their phones.

They use their own software to sync with the iTunes Library, which basically includes the song info, playlists, file locations, etc.

Palm is the only company that directly uses iTunes to sync, and it dupes the software into thinking its an iPod.

Poor form Palm. They should have done it the right way to begin with.

How can you say; "Apple is NOT singling out Palm", With a straight face? The Pre is not using iTunes, the Pre (just like those other 3rd party devices) uses it's own software, "webOS'! WebOS is Allowing the Pre to be recognized by iTunes, those other 3rd party devices do not have the software or capability built in. Simply put, the function is built into webOS, whereas those 3rd party devices need external software to work.

So I can sync music from my iTunes library to my Pre without having the Tunes application open? Exactly how do I do this?

WebOS "allows" iTunes to recognize it? Really ? iTunes only recognizes a specific number of devices that use the iTunes plugin API (http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2172). I don't see the Pre on this list, or pretty much anything built anytime recently for that matter.

"the function is built into webOS, whereas those 3rd party devices need external software to work" .... because they are using the legitimate method to sync media files. They use a desktop application to access the iTunes XML library file. BlackBerry, Nokia, and even DoubleTwist do this. Palm uses a hack.

Apple is NOT singling out Palm. They are correcting an unauthorized hack. Otherwise tell me why they haven't blocked BlackBerry Media Sync which works with millions and millions more phones than the Pre?

Apple doesn't need to code in a way for the Pre to work, thats Palm's job. But if Palm makes it work (which they did) without asking you to do anything, then breaking it for no other reason then to not let use it is just plain stupid!

Pretend I have a wifi access point in your house, and that I live next door to you.

Pretend that I didn't set up strong security on this access point, so that with a little bit of work, you're able to use my internet service. You made it work, and you didn't have to ask me to do anything.

Now let's say that, after realizing that you've been using my wifi without asking, I change the security and you can't use it anymore.

You're saying *I'm* at fault here?

Not at all, Apple is not at fault for closing a hole in their security, I am just saying that them doing this to make the pre not work only serves to their detriment.

Its more like I hacked into your wifi so I could pay you for downloading music, then you said i would need to setup my connection again in another way, and you were making it harder for me and i had to use a different interface, so that the ease of using your interface is gone. The fact that itunes won't sync with other devices is a poor on and will only work to apples detriment.

What ever, App-peeps. I synced my pre to iTunes once. Didn't like how it put the music on. Haven't done so since. I'm a drag/drop person. I may try WinAmp, but I've never really relied on a phone for music. I rarely purchase music from iTunes for myself. The monitors/raters over there don't know how to categorize music as Explicit. Folks, watch your kids on that software! Make sure you know what they are listening to. The Parental Controls is atrocious!

So, does Apple want to sell more Hardware or sell more music to consumers? Personally, I would concentrate on the music consumers rather than worry about what player they're syncing with.

I have been using iTunes to convert my PERSONAL CDs (NOT PURCHASED FROM APPLE) to digital format. I suppose I will have to now worry about apple removing the CD rip feature because it cuts into their iTunes store sales..... TALK ABOUT THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK!!

What are you talking about? Apple is not going to remove the ability to rip cd's into iTunes. Apple's #1 priority is to its customers. iTunes is designed to be used with Apple devices for Apple customers, it is an extended feature of the device. If Apple wants to block all other devices from masquerading as an Apple device, they have every right to.

This doesn't have anything to do with iTunes Store sales - anyone is can freely download iTunes, buy music and download podcasts and put them on device they desire as long that device supports MP4 formats; AAC, H.264. The iTunes Store is self-sustaining and doesn't rely on hardware sales to subsidize its existence.

So if the #1 Priority is to Customers.... Then Apple should NOT make the iTunes SOFTWARE freely available to anyone. Make it available only to VERIFIED owners of their HARDWARE (and not available to folks who STOLE THEIR IPOD). That way, no issue with who uses Apple software with the appropriate hardware. THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.

Thanks Michael (unverified)

Before installing and using doubletwist, I'd strongly recommend glancing over their EULA. It's perhaps one of the worst I've seen. Not only does it take away your rights, give them permission to install crap on your computer without notifying you, and generally screw you over, but it is rife with hypocrisy - DVD Jon can circumvent any DRM he damn well pleases, but if you try to circumvent doubletwist DRM you better be ready to get sued.

No thanks.

I'll just fail to update iTunes.

It's not big deal. I mean, comeon, why do we need iTunes for Palm Pre. I never use it with my palm pre. I like to custom myself and sync OTA with gmail account. It's simple.

Photos? Use it as USB device and look up. EZ

I could care less. Apple sucks and so does iTunes. Yeah I use it for my iPod but I don't care for it. There are better apps out there. They spend more resources trying to block the Pre from syncing than making their app better. Figures. That's why their recent upgrade for the iPhone wasn't much of an upgrade at all. Poor iPhone users. Guess copy/paste and video was something to write home to mom about after all!

You Pre boys are dumb, sad, probably both.
Apple afraid of Palm?
Palm will be lucky to sell 500K Pre's by the end of summer.
Apple can sell that many iPhones in a week.
What Palm Pre sells in a month, Apple iPhone does in a week.

Apple doesn't even see Palm in the rearview mirror.
Oops, there's Palm roadkill. I see it now. Bye.

Blows my mind how many apple fangirls feel they need to troll this site that has absolutely nothing to do with their precious iphone. It is every bit as lame as the blu-ray fans who'd troll all over the HD DVD forums. I honestly think we are dealing with 12 year old kids. Let's not forget that the Pre is actually meant to be a business device which the iphone fails to be rather than priority of an mp3 player. That is just a bonus. Go back to apple land and stay the hell out of our forum. Sure wish the mods would delete your accounts.

And when apple grows up, they'll sell half as many units as Blackberry!

What Palm Pre sells in a month, Apple iPhone does over a weekend.

iPhone sells worldwide not just in the US like Pre. So you think they sold 500,000 3GS's in the US in a weekend? Quit telling lies. What is your point anyway? iPhone has been around for years, Pre, less than two months.

Funny how people bash Microsoft for doing tricks like this to cut out competition and the iPod/iTunes history is all about cutting out competition. Apple should be smart and separate their hardware from music download business. People will buy other hardware, that is the reality, why should they also be forced not to give you money for music. Just my two cents. I know that mp3 download is now available but cutting off syncing just seems petty.

Actually what is really petty, is former Apple employees using inside knowledge of Apple's devices to help boost the perception that their product is somehow superior than other's.

And people fault/blame Microsoft for unfair practices, not for protecting its own technologies or products.

Oh, you mean like all the ex-Palm people who Apple hired when making the original iPhone?

You know, the iPhone that:

In 2007, copied the portrait-orientation of the 2001 Treo?

In 2007, copied the Web browsing Palm offered since 1999?

In 2007, copied the Exchange sync Palm offered since 2002?

In 2007, copied the Apps store Palm offered since 1996?

In 2007, copied the ring-vibrate switch Palm offered since 2001?

In 2007, copied the threaded SMSes that Palm offered since 2001?

That Apple?

Forget about Missing Sync. The Pre version simply doesn't work at all.

I've been a Missing Sync for PalmOS customer since 2005, and it mostly worked ok (though it was often flaky) but the new Pre version is completely useless. I've gone through three of their beta releases now, and I have *yet* to be able to successfully sync my contacts and calendars twice in a row without Missing Sync failing.

I've sent them detailed debug logs with each new beta release, and I haven't gotten a single response yet.

My beta trial period is going to expire in a week, and I sure won't be purchasing it. Since it, you know, doesn't work. I guess I'll have to finally bite the bullet and start using Google Calendar, which I *really* don't want to do.

No fanboy here (Have a pre and past Palms), but here are my thoughts, Palm looked for an easy way out to sync media onto their phone. They obviously knew Apple was going to fight back (who wouldn't). So now palm advertised that there phone works with a product that they never confirmed with and looks like a retard. They should have just left that out and used the USB method until they came out with something supported.

What i mean is Palm shouldn't advertise that their products will work with something unless it's official and will be supported.

Oo well, palm screwed up, and for all the clients left empty handed (for those that update itunes), revert back to the USB method like they should have in the first place. Palm will need to worry about supporting a product to sync, then waste there time on a product that will break every other update.

Seems to be a lot of angry people out there today, Apple has a proprietary software that Palm "hacked" to allow the pre to sync with. We all knew this was going to happen, do you blame Apple, not one bit. I am big Apple fan, and I also love my Pre, but there are other ways around this, like a lot of people are saying don't update, or use Doubletwist. Not the end of the world. One thing there is to say is that Apple could have gained more revenue with having Pre users the ability to sync with iTunes, but do they really need that or does it really matter to them? I am sure if Palm and Apple come to some sort of licensing agreement this will all go away. But for now do what you must to continue to enjoy your Pre.

Cheers

Apple gain more revenue from Pre users? They lose revenue with lost iphone sales if they don't prevent Palm from leaching itunes.

That argument doesn't hold. Using iTunes does not require the use of an iPhone. There are many people who bought a Pre specifically because it is NOT an iPhone.

And, exactly what leeching did Palm do? I don't think they used any of Apple's code...

I think he was talking about people using iTunes to purchase their music from the Apple Store.

Rob

Not being an iTunes / iPod user, this does not impact me as much. My hope is that Palm will provide integration with Napster and Rhapsody ToGo natively or give strong support to third parties to develop apps for them. One example is PocketTunes for Palm OS.

I recognize that there is a huge number of iTunes/iPod users; however, I think this will provide the opportunity for others to take some of the market share from iTunes (not that that is the goal).

And do not forget about Amazon.

So, who needs iTunes? Ever since Amazon introduced DRM-free downloads, I have forgotten about iTunes and haven't looked back. I don't see myself as missing anything. Amazon has a very broad selection and they don't try to dictate how I use my music files.

I can't wait for the class action suits.

Palm clearly advertised that their phone syncs with iTunes. That is no longer true. That by itself wouldn't open them up for class action suits. BUT, it was clear to everyone who follows the matter that Apple would block Pre syncing in the next iTunes upgrade - and Palm had to know this.

So Palm sold a device with a 2 year contract by using a claim that it would sync to iTunes, knowing full well that it was only temporary. Furthermore, if Palm continues to use that feature on any of their packages or ads from today forward, it is further evidence of false advertising.

Ordinarily, class action suits are bogus, but this one would have merit.

Actually, it wouldn't. Palm *could not* KNOW that Apple would disable this functionality. Palm also has stated that the Pre syncs with iTunes version 8.2.0 and earlier -- they never made the statement that it will sync with all versions of iTunes forever.

I think you need to work a little harder on your law degree before you make statements about legalities. Just because something seems like common sense or appears to be obvious does not mean it meets any tests of legal rigor.

Sorry, pal, but I've run enough companies that I know that intentionally defrauding customers is illegal. And if it gets in front of a jury, they'll get hammered.

Everyone knew that Apple would change things - by the 'rational man' standard, Palm was negligent in not reporting this. They are currently stating on their web site that compatibility with future versions is not guaranteed, but that doesn't appear in all their ads, nor did it appear in all the information people considered before buying their Pre.

Everyone didn't know; everyone speculated. Are you saying that Palm knew Apple's product plans and knew that Apple would change the code to make this not work? That would be a difficult assertion to prove.

Further, the Pre did, in fact, sync with iTunes. It still syncs for me with iTunes versions earlier than today's version.
I don't see the intent to defraud. It works as advertised.

Lastly, your argument is based on the speculation that an announced software feature will work exactly the same way forever, regardless of changes in technology. It seems to me that "everyone knows" that software changes over time and may obsolete equipment. It just happened to be sooner rather than later in this particular case.

Given that the "technology change" was performed by a company other than Palm, I don't see how Palm can be held accountable for a class action suit. Such an argument is ludicrous.

Again, running companies != law expertise. I've known enough people who have run companies to know that.

Palm advertised thatt Pre worked with iTunes?

Can you link to that ad?

Thought not.

Here is the proof and the link from Palm Investors,

And Many More Links and Pages with Screen Grabs that Palm Say;s Directly it Syncs with ITunes, Also During the Interview with Roger M. He stated that Apple would stop it, And he directly said this, Look for the interview, It's on Youtube.

I provide you with this link from Palm, It's up to you to go to youTube to see the Interview, Just search for the Interview with Roger M. of Palm

Note PALM Screamed the Pre would sync with iTunes and Said it many times also Bolstered the Fact to Investors that it would Sync with itunes.

A..Hah Yes Palm Has it in Print, Direct from Palm Themeless, Here is the Link, Read it Yourself, And yes, You will see Legal Proceedings against Palm, Its Coming, and they have allot to answer for. If they would have kept it silent and not taunted and bragged abut the syncing ability, it would have been fine, but using the iTunes syncing ability as a selling point just Proverbially "Sunk There Ship" For Palm Pre and iTunes False Advert.

Link: http://investor.palm.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=386488

Quote From Palm from Link.

Palm Media Sync

"Palm media sync is a feature of webOS that synchronizes seamlessly with iTunes, giving you a simple and easy way to transfer DRM-free music, photos and videos to your Palm Pre.(2) Simply connect Pre to your PC or Mac via the USB cable, select "media sync" on the phone, and iTunes will launch on your computer desktop. You can then choose which DRM-free media files to transfer.
"We designed Palm media sync to be an easy and elegant way for you to take the content you own and put it on Pre, and it's just one of the ways we think you'll be amazed by webOS," said Rubinstein. "We've had an overwhelming response since we introduced Pre at CES, and with availability just days away, we can't wait to let everyone see firsthand what the excitement is all about."

SOURCE: Palm, Inc.

Palm, Inc.
Leslie Letts, 408-617-8671
leslie.letts@palm.com
Copyright Business Wire 2009

Uh, no, you stated that Palm "advertised" that it worked with iTunes -- not that a passive investor in the firm noted that it supported iTunes at that point in time.

Using your logic, I should be able to sue Apple because my Laserwriter isn't supported by Mac OS X -- after all, they said it has Mac OS X support!

Apple's dodgy business practices here are evidence of their fear of Palm's product as being the better product. They'll sell more iPhones than Palm for a year or so until Palm's got a global distribution network for Pre, but then Palm will kick Apple's ass.

Apple is all about screwing its own iTunes customers to "get Palm," and overcharging them. It takes away choices about what devices you can use with your iTunes music, what devices will sync with Apple software, and even what network you can use their phone on.

When Palm is available on all four major networks in the USA while Apple's still stuck on the worst of the big 4, Palm will outsell Apple in the USA. Ditto for global markets.

Long term, Apple will collapse to the 3% global share in smartphones that it has today in PCs -- an irrelevant fashionista device for people who buy technology as a fashion accessory. It will be as irrelevant for most global smartphone users as Macintosh is for most global PC users for the same reasons -- Apple's arrogance, restrictions on customers, high prices, and assumption that it rather than customers should be able to determine what they do with the device they bought with their hard-earned money.

I just ran my touch through the saw and sent it to Apple.. Will it mean anything to them? probably not... They did though just lose a customer....

Pictures or it didn't Happen.

>>Palm clearly advertised that their phone syncs with iTunes.

Here is the proof and the link from Palm Investors,

And Many More Links and Pages with Screen Grabs that Palm Say;s Directly it Syncs with ITunes, Also During the Interview with Roger M. He stated that Apple would stop it, And he directly said this, Look for the interview, It's on Youtube.

I provide you with this link from Palm, It's up to you to go to youTube to see the Interview, Just search for the Interview with Roger M. of Palm

Note PALM Screamed the Pre would sync with iTunes and Said it many times also Bolstered the Fact to Investors that it would Sync with itunes.

A..Hah Yes Palm Has it in Print, Direct from Palm Themeless, Here is the Link, Read it Yourself, And yes, You will see Legal Proceedings against Palm, Its Coming, and they have allot to answer for. If they would have kept it silent and not taunted and bragged abut the syncing ability, it would have been fine, but using the iTunes syncing ability as a selling point just Proverbially "Sunk There Ship" For Palm Pre and iTunes False Advert.

Link: http://investor.palm.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=386488

Quote From Palm from Link.

Palm Media Sync

"Palm media sync is a feature of webOS that synchronizes seamlessly with iTunes, giving you a simple and easy way to transfer DRM-free music, photos and videos to your Palm Pre.(2) Simply connect Pre to your PC or Mac via the USB cable, select "media sync" on the phone, and iTunes will launch on your computer desktop. You can then choose which DRM-free media files to transfer.
"We designed Palm media sync to be an easy and elegant way for you to take the content you own and put it on Pre, and it's just one of the ways we think you'll be amazed by webOS," said Rubinstein. "We've had an overwhelming response since we introduced Pre at CES, and with availability just days away, we can't wait to let everyone see firsthand what the excitement is all about."

SOURCE: Palm, Inc.

Palm, Inc.
Leslie Letts, 408-617-8671
leslie.letts@palm.com
Copyright Business Wire 2009

Again, a press release about Media Sync is neither an advertisement, nor a guarantee that Apple would not declare war on end users and specifically redesign their software to break competing devices.

Why does anyone even care about Itunes ?? I think it is terrible anyway and far more complicated than it needs to be , Itunes is a waste of time and Apple can keep it all to themselves, just fine with me

Am I seriously the only person on the planet who doesn't care at all for iTunes? And, for that matter, still uses Winamp?

You're not the only one. Yawn. I couldn't care less. I never use iTunes, it isn't particularly good. I guess those who need Podcasts might be concerned?

That is what I mainly used Itunes for, but could not get them to play on the Pre using the Itunes sync anyway. Having the sync feature on the Pre makes it easier for those wanting to leave their Iphone for the Pre to make a switch, so I can see why Apple would want to stop that. I have no sides, just enjoying watching the two teams play.

Winamp does sync podcasts. And does it better than iTunes.

This is a classic flamewar. Bravo contributors.

Brents twitter status is 404ed

@Rasen!

No, my grandpa is old school too and uses winamp

Not to go onto something else, But winamp is awesome especially when it comes to playing FLAC

Pretty much every single file format known to man is on there. I run around on a Creative Zen Vision: M, and it handles it better than the native software. Also, it fits better in my desktop configs.

Too bad folks. You want a phone that syncs with iTunes (er . . . I'm not going to state the obvious)? Palm deserved it and should've expected this. Create/license your own apps and don't leech off of other companies. Apple is correct in protecting their I.P. and their brand.

hey "Boo-Hoo"... hey real quick ... I just wanted to let you know that you were a fag. Thats all... have a good night.

Dragging and Dropping is not an option. I rate music, I have distinct playlists, and much more than 8GB of music to simply "drop everything" on the Pre. I am also very particular about file naming convention and album artwork. I do this through iTunes. DoubleTwist doesnt even have album artwork does it? Ug I just DLed DoubleTwist and it is very ugly. I guess I'll use some type of 3rd Party iTunes sync app.

Palm launches pre in Europe, palm takes apple to court, EU sides with Palm that Apple must allow other devices to sync with itunes if it wants to sell music to non-idevice users.

Apple complies and cuts off a bigger market, or apple opens up there software in europe which we then take and install here in the us.

Same deal that happened with MS and IE. Just now it involves a monopoly with hardware/software syncing.

Yes.

take vlc
make a skin that has the same layout as itunes
add your app store
add an amazon interface
add rss podcasts.
done. and it would use less resources and install less crap then palm.

I have hated Apple longer then I can remember... I barely remember when it started... I think it was somewhere around the time the 1st ipod came out as a much inferior and much higher priced alternative to the young but exploding mp3 market and used DRM and a flashy add campaign to take it over and bastardize it. Add in 100s of spoiled presentations I have sat through when graphics/videos wouldn't show up or play properly because "sorry everybody, I made this presentation on my mac"
My first foray into ever using anything apple myself was trying i-tunes on my pre...... here is my experience.

Scanned and synced well enough but then when I looked for my music using my pre as a hardrive it was unrecognizable. WTF?

I was excited to try out this whole podcasting thing I keep hearing about but it didn't work too well (admittedly Pre's fault not i-tunes) so after about 3 days I just quit messing with it and felt a little dirty for letting myself be tempted to play with Apple to begin with. This is the nail in the coffin of mine and apple's brief and unsatisfying tryst.
My hat is off to Palm for having the balls to set up the pre to trick i-tunes but they from day 1 said it was not guaranteed to last so any of this ridiculous talk of class action suits against palm needs to stop.

In a nutshell.... kudos for the cojones Palm.... just what we all expected from the evil empire.

You just went on a rant about how much you hate apple for 3 paragraphs, and your opinion holds water? Haha.

You're funny.

Technically Mac should also be sued by MS in Europe and be forced to allow the software to be installed on PC's. Then Apple has one option to keep its revenue up, increase the price of both Mac OS and Mac Hardware.

MS wont though because then they might lose market share. It would have to be class action.

What's funny is the same group of people who would defend Apple in this position are frequently the same type of person who would chide Microsoft to NO end for the same thing.

Apple says Itune is their software, to use any other device than theirs is a hack, and will go out of their way to break other devices. A special breed of people say - "Go Apple!"

That same breed of people would scream to no end about how evil Microsoft was if they were to announce that Windows was their software, to use any other browser than theirs on it is a hack, and went out of their way to break other browsers.

Apple gets away with all kinds of behavior that NOBODY would even tolerate a hint of from Microsoft. It's amazing how much people are willing to defend Apple.

So I can make a playlist, hit crtl + C and then paste that in my PRE USB mode, right?

i just select all, copy then paste. It actually takes less time than syncing with itunes or doubletwist. I tried both and unless you have an ipod i dont see any reason to use itunes. I transfered all my music the first day i got the pre, and now every time i want a song i just download it from amazon on my pre. some songs are 89cents at amazon. not sure if its the same price but when i baught music for my ipod touch from itunes songs were never 89cents. Dont know if amazon gets a better deal.

It was inevitable that this happened, however itunes is sincerely flawed. The windows version has several problems and to be honest the fact that it only works for apple products makes it less atractive. People only prefer itunes because it is the simplest sync solution for ipods and most people do have or come from ipods. I would rather see a universal one with more syncing capabilities and options like the missing sync except more media features and an amazon store feature i

It seems the issue Everyone is trying to address is why Apple singled out the Pre and not anyone else. The Pre is masquerading as an iPod to fool itunes into treating it like an iPod. If anyone else was using this method to access itunes it is likely that their sync is broken too. I doubt an anti-trust case/lawsuit initiated by palm would go anywhere since what actually occurred is palm showed Apple a flaw in their software and Apple rectified it.

Short: itunes didn't say if device = Pre then don't sync it most likely added a second verification step beyond if usbID = iPod then sync.

Actually here in the US I agree, it wouldnt go far. In the EU it would, and apple would lose. Its the same argument for browsers being installed on Windows. Technically then MS could block browsers from installing. its the same arguement.

you are all idiots.

Bottom Line

In U.S. Palm needs to find another hole.

In the E.U. Once the pre is launched they can take apple to court. If Palm Loses then sam thing as US, but the EU courts admit to being wrong about MS, or biased as this is the same arguement just software/device based. If palm Wins then apple has to open the hole back up or accomodate other devices.

Just wait palm will come up with a solution.

Suck it, Pre-Babies! LOL Now go play with all 30 of your apps and STFU.

Your momma! You don't even have the guts to leave your/any name.

Seriously??? I guess I don't get it... WTF are all these apple geeks in a palm pre Forum for? I have a iTouch and a Pre... If the software was for the customer how come i can't use the software how ever i want... I mean owning the Touch makes me a consumer of Apple's Right??? So then, the Software should be mine to use as well? Hmm... sounds like Apple has a stick up their Asses.
Also, Apple is def watching Palm... I mean this is a company that wasn't doing very good and then suddenly releases a phone that does incredible. Maybe it didn't sell as many phones as the iphone but the difference is that apple isn't and wasn't struggling to begin with. so the fact that a company that was struggling has now become a major contender is something apple really needs to keep an eye on and for good reason. The webOS is something that is really great and has a lot of great Features... So, Bravo Palm for moving from the Back of the race toward the Front... KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!! :-D

I use my itunes for my ipod and my pre as a smart phone. Who cares about itunes.

May I suggest to Palm to forget trying to find another work around and continue to improve webOS. You know when the apple clowns start coming on the blogs you got something good.

Peace

I haven't seen any mention here of Palm Music Assistant, available from http://palm.com/support under Phones-->Palm Pre-->Downloads.

It's cross-platform (Win/Mac). Its sole purpose is to move your Amazon downloads from your Pre into iTunes on your computer. Some notable points:
It enables Media Sync mode on your Pre, overriding iTunes
It creates a new "Amazon Music Purchases" playlist in iTunes
It removes the Amazon downloads from your Pre; to get them back you have to sync the new playlist


It's very limited but I used it once (I've only downloaded one song from Amazon..."Doorway"!) and it works fine, though it's a little clunky.

I'm bringing this up to point out that Palm Music Assistant demonstrates that Palm currently has some experience developing desktop solutions that will sync your music with iTunes. All the important pieces are there: Media Sync, transferring files, manipulating playlists. I'll speculate that PMA is a prototype and that the same folks at Palm who developed that are working on a full-blown iTunes music sync solution, independent of the USB hack. I won't at all be surprised to hear that PMA 2.0 is exactly that.

palm pre sucks. it's a cheap piece of plastic junk. why are they using apple software? idiots!

apple is a big pile

hmmm.. what's so hard about clicking and dragging mp3's to and from the phone? really.

How many times do we have to say it??? It's not only the Pre that can't sync to iTunes. It's any non-iDevice. Get over it. You don't hear BB users bitching like this; that'd be crazy. It's simply protecting their I.P.... that's that. And if you guys hate Apple products so much, don't use iTunes for crissakes! Palm really blew this one!!!!

Oh my goodness there are some ignorant arguments in this thread.

What Palm did isn't a "hack", it is reverse engineering to provide compatibility. There is a big difference. Hacking involves changing code in order to break into something you shouldn't be using. Reverse engineering is protected by law. Palm did nothing wrong by trying to give people an additional option. They aren't making people using iTunes, they are just trying to allow those people that use iTunes to continue to use the programs they are used to.

What many of you don't realize is that Apple's move is considered monopolistic because they have a majority share of online music sales and they are blocking a competitor actively. Many of you may not be old enough to remember Microsoft pulling crap like that and intentionally breaking competitors software with Windows updates. They got sued and had their butts handed to them. They have been more careful about it since. It would be totally within Palm's rights to sue Apple. Don't forget that some countries already officially consider Apple a monopoly.

This totally ignores the fact that it was a very tasteless and stupid move on Apple's part. I have been using iTunes just because it works a little easier with playlists for my audiobooks and because doubletwist corrupted my music twice before I gave up on it (and the palm requires the entire drive to be reformatted). I will continue to use an old version for the time being, but if I have to worry about Apple screwing things up, then I'll be buying all my music from Amazon instead of iTunes. That means that Apple has just lost one customer at least and likely more.

It really baffles me that they would do it. They stand to make more money than they lose. I can't really see anyone ditching their Pre for an iPhone just because of iTunes. Not at this stage of the game anyways.

Oh, and the other stupid thing that people say is "Palm blew it" or "Palm screwed up". WRONG!!

Ok, if iTunes was the Only way to get music on your Pre, I'd agree with you. Instead, they are on par with pretty much every other MP3 player out there that doesn't use iTunes. You can sync with Windows Media player or just copy MP3s. It's not like iTunes is the only way to copy music.

Palm added iTunes compatibility as a BONUS, not as the only way to sync. So Apple decided to be a jerk, big deal, it only means less people use iTunes. They aren't any worse off than if they hadn't offered it in the first place. Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if they have an update that gives the ability back.

Also, this is NOT about apple protecting their IP, this is about them being anti-competitive. If Microsoft pulled anything like this they would be sued. It would be one thing if iTunes was a purchase product and Pre was packaging iTunes with a Pre without permission. That would be infringing on IP. Reverse engineering to allow hardware to access another companies software (or vice versa) is totally legal and ethical.

I agree with your assertion that this is not a "hack," in the sense that Palm didn't alter Apples product to allow iTunes syncing.

However, all the talk about monopolistic behavior on Apple's part is off base. You claim that "Apple's move is considered monopolistic because they have a majority share of online music sales and they are blocking a competitor actively." Having a majority share of ONLINE MUSIC SALES does not automatically make Apple a monopolist. Palm is not even a competitor in ONLINE MUSIC SALES for Apple to be "blocking actively." Apple holds no majority when it comes to PHONE SALES which is the market where Palm competes. Nothing Apple has done in changing iTunes does anything at all to "actively block" Palm where they compete. All Apple is doing is ensuring the product that they pay for in R&D works only with the product that they designed it for, in the way in which they intend.

Also, comparing this to Microsoft and the browser wars holds no water either. You cannot simply compare products A and B with products X and Y and claim that somehow their respective market conditions are similar, correlated, or even remotely related to each other. What got Microsoft into trouble was not simply blocking a browser from working with their operating system, instead it was using this as leverage with computer hardware manufacturers to sell more versions of their operating system. Also, Microsoft was accused of not giving Netscape the same technical information and access as they were other software companies. Apple is not allowing anyone else to do what Palm was attempting to do, and they are not leveraging iTunes syncing or online music sales to prevent other companies from selling their competing products. Apple is simply providing an ecosystem for their own products, using their own R&D money. You could argue that the DRM seen in many products, not just Apple's, was an attempt to leverage market share to prevent sales of competitors' products, but iTunes songs are now DRM-free.

Also, Microsoft was accused of using the threat of withholding Windows 95 licenses from hardware makers if they pre-installed Netscape on their computers instead of IE. Apple has done nothing like this. They allow third party software to access the files that iTunes handles and Palm would be no different had they created software to access those files. Instead Palm chose to emulate an Apple product and use Apple's continued R&D on the iTunes software to increase the utility of their own phone, the Pre.

You may find Apple's decision to be tasteless, but I don't believe that has anything to do with it being monopolistic. If you would care to point out how Apple's music sales have anything to do with "actively blocking" a competitor's phone sales, I'd enjoy the read.

Before I'm called some sort of fanboy of some product or another, I am not. I was going to buy a Pre, and may still, but currently use an iPhone due to the coverage in my area and the applications I rely on. I enjoy products from many companies but I do not enjoy the condescending ("Many of you may not be old enough to remember...") and ignorant posts that show up on this site and others.

I love how Apple fanboys come around here to shout at Palm and call their trick a "hack" when it isn't...
And yet they can't live without jailbreaking their iPhones... which is a proper "hack".

If iTunes syncing is not important to the choice of a Pre, then why are so many people
making such a big deal about it?

And if it is important to the choice of a Pre, then why didn't Palm do it legitimately?

Take your pick.

Sunny Guy

Nobody's making a big deal out of it, except the amount of Apple guys coming here to comment.

Some of us might have thought "too bad".
Then excited Apple lovers come here and tell us how screwed up Palm is and how much of a "FAIL" they are for trying to "HACK" iTunes into being THE ONLY WAY (because they still don't understand it's a bonus function) to sync music onto the Pre... and how that was ADVERTISED as the selling point for the Pre (but they still don't have an add that proves just that)...

You know... all the fuss is generated in the comments, really. The article states it doesn't work anymore. We mostly don't care. Apple does. iPhone buyers seem to care a lot.

I wonder if we'd hit a quarter of the comments count if The iPhone Blog didn't link to this page.

Yes this is about business on both sides. However, there is some bad blood between Steve Jobs & Ruby. This didn't take long after Jobs came back.

Forgive me if I missed this (this article is at close to 200 comments now and I haven't read them all), but doesn't doubleTwist just act as a go-between the Pre and iTunes when syncing? Has anyone confirmed that it will continue to allow Pre syncing after the update?

ugh

DoubleTwist itself syncs. No need for iTunes. Luckily.

Meh.

I was happy to get that nasty software off my machine when I sold the iPhone.

Ha, ha!! Pre loooooooosers!

Um, they also broke access to some early generation iPods. Opps.

I sense the Pre will release a fix to this...the cat and mouse will continue.

This is why I will never buy another Apple product again, or use iTunes.

Since I've never been a fan if iTunes or really of any Apple product that forces me to do things 'their' way - this is no real loss. I've always preferred just a simple USB sync - let me copy files how I want - when I want... in the format I want.

Besides - many of us who bought our PRE's did so because we DON'T appreciate the value that APPLE forces down our throats in so many ways...

I vote for PALM NOT to continue down this path... much more important to work on unique features that differentiates WEBOS

Go figure, someone always has to ruin the fun...

I am so glad this happened. I never liked iTunes and did not want my Pre to be associated with Apple in sharp or form.

If I wanted anything Apple I would have purchased an iPhone to begin with.

Now we can shake the Apple out of the Pre for good once and for all!

Rob

You'll never shake Apple out of the PRE. Didn't Palm hire Apple talent for this whole PRE thing anyway??? Without Apple you'd still have the Treo and non-innovative Palm OS!

http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/7797/palm-hires-apples-former-head-of...

http://www.businessinsider.com/2009/2/palm-hires-yet-another-apple-vet

http://www.everythingtreo.com/news/palm/palm-hires-ex-apple-product-desi...

Without Treo, there'd be no iPhone, dumbass.

Treo had portrait orientation with a keyboard at the bottom -- which Apple copied with iPhone in 2007.

Treo had mobile e-mail with Exchange integration in 2003 -- which apple copied with iPhone in 2007.

Treo had threaded SMS in 2001 -- which Apple copied with iPhone in 2007.

Treo had mobile web browsing in 2001 -- which Apple copied with iPhone in 2007.

Treo had desktop sync in 2001 -- which Apple copied with iPhone in 2007.

Treo had camera with video capability in 2004 -- which Apple copied with iPhone in 2007.

Treo had touchscreens in 2001 -- which Apple copied in 2007 and had the audacity to claim it had invented itself.

Treo had app stores and 25,000 applications back in 2001, when Apple was still making cheap plastic egg-shaped iMacs and six years before Apple released iPhone.

Hell, Apple even copied Palm's phone interface (with the switch/conference call patented features) and the Treo "ring/vibrate" switch.

Without the Treo to copy (and add a candy-colored Apple shell on top of), iPhone never would have happened.

So kindly take your arrogant non-technically-versed Apple fandom talking points and shove them up your skinny "I'm a Mac" non-sunshine place.

Thanks!

hey guys. try Media Monkey instead. it's far superior to iTunes.

Things have changed over here at precentral...
Welcome to where many bigger sites are, which comment sections are more usable for personal entertainment than gathering more information about the topic. Especially if the topic is somewhat iPhone related. Why that is... well... ;-)

By the way, I still miss a post about the dev meeting in NY...

The serial number that showed up when you plugged the pre in was XXXXXXX, they probably just put in a serial number check. That would be the easiest way to block devices without valid serials.

I already own an ipod nano so it doesn't matter, I listen to music on that in the car or wherever. Its tiny and holds twice as much music. My phone is for using like a phone.

Apple the new Microsoft.

Run Luke, Run...

Despite the fact that is pathetic these iPhone slave users are trolling around a PRE site that should have no interest to them since they are 'soooo much better'. Besides that, the point is Apple is showing its egotistical side, blocking their own users and buyers who own maybe an ipod or nano, but NOT an iphone. What do you think these users will do? Sell their pre and toss their ipods and go buy an iphone, get real Apple. These people paid for their damn songs and should be able to get at them whatever way they want. Stop telling people what to do and gauging them into your pricey shit and contracts. PS: I dont even have iTunes, I use other software to stay way from Apples monopoly conquer the world approach with 'no competition', like microsft tried and apple hated them for it.

Now Palm can further show off their innovative software writing talents by writing their own "music store" for syncing as opposed to stealing the talents and efforts of Apple by saying the PRE is an iPod. No copyright infringement there I'm sure!

I wonder how many of those chiding Apple as a bully would feel if say a neighbor borrowed your lawnmower to cut their yard every week? As a good neighbor you'd probably say yes. As time progressed, you'd say get your own damn mower!

Good for Apple! Palm, get your own damn store to sync!

should i buy the Palm pre.. was thinking on buying it tomorrow, right now i have the samsung instinct first Generation should i make the change, for $299.99 + mailing rebate ??

I did, and I don't miss the samsung instinct at all!!!
Wors phone I ever had!! The pre is Just Amazing. My wife had the iPhone. I let her play for 10 minutes with the pre and the iPhone was sold on ebay.

i there - I came across your blog via MyBlogLog. Good recommendation - I

Very good !

Well done Apple...
Palm have to do his software... no take the software of other firm...

I've got a better solution for you guy ! Buy a iPhone ! it work better than a Pre ;-)

If the better statement is more applications i'm with you.
The Pr

PEOPLE USE http://www.precentral.net/doubletwist-manages-pre-media-freely-easily-tr...

Im wondering if some actual macOS useres will buy a PC for sync the Palm Pr

I dont get it. I love this phone this is my 3rd palm phone. I don't care about I-tunes. I find the comments here helpful most of the time, but this is just funny to me. I am having some much fun reading these comments.What realy matters is that this is the 1st Pre, and the 1st phone to give the Iphone a run for the money. Just wait till v2 or 3 get here.
PS just use Amazon.

Hey, can someone try the Palm Pre with CopyTrans Manager?

It's a free iPod manager, I think it will work. Please give feedback!

http://www.copytrans.net/copytransmanager.php

Thanks

Mine still works and I had just down loaded the new version of itunes 8

You can always go back to previous version . There is site for old version files
http://www.oldapps.com/

:) in case u upgraded

Palm really does need to come up with their own music solution...using iTunes in the first instance was almost a confession of "Apple do music better than us...let's use their system"

I used to listen to Podcasts and songs on my Treo 680 via "The Juicer" and Pocket Tunes...the entire process of subscribing to podcasts, getting these on the Treo, finding the songs again and playing them was always a messy, multiple step process....

With a new 160gb Ipod Classic I insantly found out why the consumer masses have purchased the ipod in droves....literally:

subscribe to podcast/purchase song
add to playlist
plug in ipod

everything syncs ...everything is done....no geekiness required...

my experience with the 680 was not this simple...

when I hear stories of people "hacking" Pres in order to provide better functionality with their music the point is very clearly made....

Palm need their own music eco system...with the same level of simplicty...not something that requires hacking or geek tricks...

(having said all that I'm still looking forward to the Pre arriving here down under....but I will probably keep using the iPod classic for music)

When you combine this with seamless Alpine car audio integration

If you don't have a love/hate relationship with all l these giant corporations, then you are just their prison bitch. There are no saints in the boardroom. Apple is rotten, just as all the villagers with pitchforks have known about Microsoft for years. Apple made mistake after mistake, for decades, until they figured out kiddies like music. Then they broke their arrangement with Apple Records to stay out of music. Apple loves closed systems. We love our toys, but they are not made by Santa and his elves.

I thought it was audacious of Pre to advertise that their device sync'd with iTunes when it was, to put it bluntly, a hack.

Apple is a competitor so why would Palm think this would be allowed? Zune doesn't work with iTunes.

Still, Apple comes off looking like the bad guy here.

Though in the end, you can still drag and drop the non_DRM iTunes purchases...just not sycned. I bet more than a few software engineers at Palm are thinking they wasted their time...

The fact that Palm made the Pre look like an iPod to iTunes says it all. Think about it. The Pre is pretending to be an iPod. Isn't anyone the least bit embarrassed by that? In the strategy session, big boss says, "How can we gain a competitive advantage over the iPhone?" Eager idea man says, "Let's dress up like an iPhone!" Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but this is taking it way too far.

Some are calling for Palm to engage in a cat and mouse game with software updates. Is this really the best plan Palm has for syncing music on their device? Really?

The worst part about this debacle is that instead of the media talking about how Synergy revolutionized the way we deal with contacts from multiple sources, they are talking about how Palm is desperately trying to connect to the market leaders solutions. Stupid in the first degree. It is hard to root for Palm in the face of that kind of Sophomoric stupidity, even for those of us who want to.

I agree the Pre doesn't and shouldn't need any links or associations with iTunes when Synergy should expand to all facets of your media life.

Stand on your own two feet Palm Pre!

I dont like this one so much..

Palm knew this hour was coming just wish, for their sake, they had thought of a highlarious in yo face Plan B which would trigger after Apple's moment zero. Underdogs must capitalize the opportunity.

well cr@&

Has anyone tried Salling Media Sync?

Using iTunes only benefits Apple in the end and I find it a little bizarre that any well established company would reduce there direct advertising purely out of spite.

Add to that iTunes isn

The whole pre/ apple fanboys argument is irrelevant in the broader market. As earlier comments have expressed, the general public are not going to come into this forum. They just want something to work and if they used iTunes before (as they most likely have an iPod), and got the Pre because it worked with that, they are going to be mad about it not working any longer.

Who to be mad at though? Palm for saying it would work in the first place (from their Pre webpage footnote, 6 Compatible with iTunes v8.2. Compatibility with future versions not guaranteed. Within wireless coverage area only.) or Apple for breaking it?

I am a fan (not fanboy) of apple products, I don't have an iPhone though as in NYC, AT&T is an abomination and I wouldn't grease their palms (no pun intended) with a dime until they improved the network. I also liked the look of the Pre and wish them all the best but this was not a good idea.

Who to be mad at? well, the average user probably both companies, nobody a winner. Sure there are other products that do the same job but if you have an ipod then having 2 apps to do much of the same thing is a pain. If they had incorporated a music manager that took the catalog and playlists from itunes, even a link to launch iTunes, into a Pre manager that would have satisfied most users. Instead Palm and Apple look bad, I think Palm is going to suffer more though. For Apple they may loose a customer on iTunes that gets a Pre, Palm on the other hand may not get the customer in the first place or loose the one they have. . . . time will tell, I would bet on Apple's marketing winning the day though.

Palm have a chance here to make up ground, Blackberry are not after non-business consumers and the rest of the competition are nowhere (Ballmer still thinks Windows Mobile is the future!). Apple has the best product overall in my opinion, when you consider the hardware, software, SDK, store and the applications you can get for it. Palm are going to be swimming upstream, they may have an advantage that people hate AT&T but when Apple releases the iPhone for other networks here in the US, the main reason to not have an iPhone (other than you hate Apple for some incoherent reason) will be removed. When that day comes, Palm will have needed to make an impression (especially offering a good syncing tool for all aspects of the phone and a large number of applications) otherwise I for one, will be getting an iPhone.

For now I will enjoy the reliability of Verizon (who's phones suck, I know) and carry an iPod, waiting for LTE to come along. . . . and then . . . over to you Palm, stop pretending to be an ipod and do something brilliant yourselves.

satan is coming, the end is near, sell your Apple stock Jobs will be catatonic in the next year due to the fact that he bought Michael Jackson's Liver.

I must say all this talk and no real resolution to the real problem at hand here.

AT&T coverage sucks balls, and yet Apple signed another contract until 2012.

Sprint is CDMA (sucks) great coverage when combined with Verizon who they partner with, but the Pre is kinda sucky compared to an iPhone.

Somebody fix this fucking mess and quit bitching about your nerdy arguments.

Apple, Microsoft, and Palm are all capitalist bastard run corporations who aspire to the likes of whores like ATT and Sprint. Start here...

ive jalbroken my ipod and when i open up my itunes it says "this ipod cannot be used because it needs itunes 8.2" so what do i do cause i went to itunes to download it and there was only itunes 8.1 plz help me other i have an ipod for no reason

let's see:

a) apple has NEVER promised, advertized, or supported syncing besides the ROKR phones from Motorola.
b) apple wrote the software for iPods
c) & apple makes the ipods / iphones.

which means that apple pays for the R&D, makes the deals for the store, etc. if palm is trying to mooch off of that, then that's their problem. Now, not to say that there isn't a "mine is bigger than yours" between the 2 CEOs...

I own neither phone, but I do a couple ipods & macs.

i don't have the updated itunes so i can easily sync all my songs with the pre. whats the worry? :)

It's BACK!

The new WebOS update "fixes the issue" again, so now it is again possible to sync with iTunes (8.2.1).

Go PALM!!! WebOS is unparalleled by any other mobile phone operating system. Seems like Apple is pissed because well... Jon and team (i.e Palm) built a better product. Apple knows they have a huge presence in the market, with both the iPhone and iTunes, so they're going to attempt to thwart Palm's success in anyway possible (funny because instead of spending time trying to figure out how to break the Pre/iTunes syncing capabilities Apple would be better off spending the extra time and money to figure out how to make their precious iPhone MULTI-TASK!). Either way, in a year or two people are going to realize that the WebOS is just plain better. Good job Palm, thanks for listening to your customers and having some balls. And if your wondering, I own a MacBook Pro and about 3 iPod nano's so it's not that I hate Apple. It's just getting ridiculous how they make EVERYTHING proprietary so they can charge a ton every-time you need something. Apple's products are good... but they're not that good. Enjoy your current reign Apple because it's looks like a long slide to the bottom from here. As for Palm... KEEP IT UP! YOUR PRODUCT IS "SOLID" AND IT'S ONLY A MATTER TIME BEFORE THE HERD STARTS TO MIGRATE AND THE MILLIONS OF SHEEP FOLLOW.

You guys are still talking about this???????????? Palm already fixed this. Update your pre and start sycing with ITunes. I hate iTunes, so I dont realy care.