Apple Returns Volley -- Pre Holds its Ground 118
As expected, Apple unveiled a new iPhone (the iPhone 3G S) during the WWDC keynote. They also dropped the price of the current iPhone 3G to $99. The reaction around the Web has been interesting.
CrunchGear wrote about the cost of upgrading:
"Better read the fine print, friends. Apple said today that the iPhone 3G S costs $199 (16GB) and $299 (32GB). But that’s the price only for new AT&T customers. The price if you’re already an AT&T customer and/or are upgrading from an iPhone 3G? Try $699 (32GB), $599 (16GB), and $499 (8GB). To quote Peter Ha: “HOLY SH@#.”
And Gizmodo posted about that "fine print" in a piece titled "What the Hell Is This Gibberish?"
The comments for each of those are amusing.
Over at MocoNews, in Tricia Duryee's story ("@ WWDC: Expectations Were High For Apple, Did It Deliver With The iPhone 3GS?"), she remarked, "On the surface, the WWDC keynote was a bit underwhelming." And she had this to say about how the new iPhone measured up to the Palm Pre:
"It is the iPhone 3G S and the new operating system together that will make Apple difficult to beat. It would be an exaggeration to say that Apple killed the excitement and momentum surrounding the Palm Pre.
Even after today, the Pre continues to be a better phone for multi-tasking, and will appeal to those who want a tactile keyboard. It also has a cheaper data plan—something that Apple has not been able to negotiate. To be sure, Apple's news today will continue to push all companies in the space to innovate."
If you've been following Palm on Facebook, you may have seen a "Vote for Pre" post that links to a poll Engadget is conducting. Right now the iPhone 3G S is crushing the competition, but given the behemoth that is Apple, the Pre is putting up a respectable showing.
Meanwhile, back on Wall Street, Palm shares closed down 84 cents at $12.16. A Reuters story attributed the move to concern about supply.
If you haven't done it yet, check out the thread (Palm made the first move - Apple struck back - Palm can win this) on our forums.
118 Comments
What? Still no multi tasking on the Brand new 3rg gen iPhone?????? Wait what? They just got copy and paste?
Do I need to say more?
apple built it they will come. and more that one fan boy will pay the price to get the 3gs b4 his/her contract is up.
Even if Pre didn't have multitasking, I would still get Pre over iPhone 3GS because of Palm Synergy, Intuitive notifications, and faster browser, Mojo messaging/3rd party push, phys keyboard, better network, on and on. But damn do I love multitasking and swiping the cards away!
... better UI, better OS, Universal Search, faster accelerometer, multitouch in more apps (email, DocViewer, SprintNav, others), more/better native apps (Sprint TV, Sprint Nav, Sprint Nascar, all the apps in catalogue are free also for now)...
You're joking, right? Palm doesn't have Universal Search, no matter what they call it. It only searches contacts + apps + 4 internet potals. The iPhone has Spotlight, which searches everything: including emails and calendar...all from one central location like the Pre's supposed "universal search". Apple also basically invented multi-touch on phones, so what are you talking about it's in less apps? It seems to be in most everything to me.
All 18 apps are free in the catalog? Please...
The Pre has definite advantages over the iPhone, you didn't need to spew the utter cr@p you just did there.
Convenient for you to ignore all the other aspects I pointed out and pick out UniSearch for you to bust on. Why would I want to search emails and calendars from outside the email and calendars applications?! Universal search is meant to search actual data usage items on device, things that actually have place holders like contacts, applications, and then on the internet: on Gmaps, Google, Wiki, Twitter, and more to come (which iPhone does not! Oh you mean the iPhone that isn't even out yet, that you haven't actually used yet? Yeah, that iPhone!). And iPhone did not invent multitouch on phones, they are actually currently being sued by the company that invented it for mobile devices for patent infringement (http://www.pcworld.com/article/162821/apple_slapped_with_multitouch_laws...)!! Pre's multitouch is completely diff technology, that's why THEY ARE NOT BEING SUED!!! The iphone uses multitouch for basically two native apps (web and photos). What other non-AppStore apps does iPhone use multitouch in? Pre uses it for about 6 (web, photos, email, Gmaps, DocViewer, and more), that's what I mean by saying "for more apps"! So, what did I say that was "utter crap"? Maybe you should actually know what you are talking about before you call someone else's comments crap!!
You can't search in the calendar app or in email, at all. Not from within the application, nowhere.
iPhone uses multitouch in photos, web, email, third party games (you have any of those?), google maps, attachment viewer (we have one, it's just built in and un-advertised), and more! Have you even used one? It's in all of the applications you'd want it in.
I've used iPhone 3.0, so yes, I've used all these new features (cut copy paste/spotlight/other stuff).
Seriously, stop being a fanboy and actually understand the competitio before you rag on it. I like the Pre a lot and I like the iPhone a lot. I just recognize the disadvantages of both, and you bashing the iPhone for stuff that isn't true is either disingenuous or ignorant. Your pick.
I wasn't bashing, idiot! I was pointing out Pres advantages. I didn't say anything was wrong with the iPhone, just that Pre has way more to offer! You were bashing UniSearch and I defend it! You can search in calendars and email, I actually have a Pre, you obviously don't!!! Notice that I never said one negative thing about iPhone, so I wasn't "ragging on it" or "bashing" anything. I was pointing out Pre's advantages!! Did you pass your SAT reading comprehension section?
Yes, I got over a 750, but thanks for the concern.
You can't search calendar and you can't search email. It's been discussed everywhere on the net, and I went to the Sprint store to check it out. Please, go ahead and try to search calendar and email and let every other Pre owner know how you did something everyone knows isn't yet a feature. I'm sure they'll add it at some point, but it's not there.
You were wrong about search, you were wrong about multi-touch. If you're going to proclaim the superiority of the Pre over the iPhone, at least use legitimate points. I have no problem with you having the opinion that the Pre is better (it is for a lot of people), but you just being ignorant of the iPhone's features is just embarassing.
You can't search email subject headers, but you can search contacts/senders/recipients in mail, you can search appointment/event attendees in calendars with the keyboard. So I wasn't wrong about search! How was I wrong about multi-touch? You were wrong! You said that they invented multitouch in cellphones, but I showed how they stole the patent from another company, and now they are getting sued! I said Pre has more usage in more native apps (email, DocView, etc) then you say that iPhone can use it in third party games and such! Clearly you don't know what the word "native" means! And I have never seen it used in the iPhone email applications! I had an iPhone 1! You still say I am bad-mouthing iPhone, but I still have said nothing negative about iPhone! BTW, reading comprehension is just one portion of the verbal SAT, impossible to get a 750, and if you did get a 750, that means you only missed 2 questions. Take your lies elsewhere!
You can't search appointments. You just can't. You're lying, and you know it. No one else can do this, how can you?
I talked about native apps. Multi touch is enabled on web, e-mail (yes it is, open an email and zoom and pinch), google maps, photo app, and the attachment viewer. It's enabled everywhere you need it.
750 on verbal, of course. Reading comprehension is a major part of verbal so I put that. You seem to be so fixated on it, I'm at a great college, so I don't care about the SAT anymore. No one does when you're older than 17. Doesn't mean I can't remember what I got though. Stop with attacking me personally, it's immature.
Appointment attendees I said! As in people invited to events and appointments! Jesus man, read and comprehend!!
And why would you need to search appointments anyway? All the day's appointments are displayed in one page, right in front of your face! Not like the appointments would be hidden somewhere! Again, think practically!!!! iPhone only did this to one-up the competition, not because it is actually useful!
You have to realize, Apple doesn't make the best device they can everytime they release each year. They just make a device that one-ups the old device or another competitor because it knows sheep like you will buy it so you can have the coolest new thing. Wheres all the features in 3GS/3.0 could have easily been in iPhone 1. But why not just add 3 new features every year and give it a snappy new name and sell, sell, sell!!!!
But you can't search calendar. That's just searching contacts.
You can insult me all you want. The iPhone has multi-touch in every NATIVE app where it needs to and it will search everything both within the app and in the central spotlight, which was taken directly from Mac OSX, not the half-executed Universal Search in the Pre.
EDIT: TYPO
so this is what intelligent dialogue looks like
"All the day's appointments are displayed in one page, right in front of your face!"
And if I'm looking up an appointment from 6 months ago and don't know the exact date? On a Palm OS device, the easiest way has always been search--even if the phrase is in the appointment's note.
Here's hoping Palm remembers this too and updates the search capability...
The audacity of Palm to sell the device on a point of "universal search" but then to take a step back---it sorta rubs me raw.
Yeah offer more search options (files, docs, Google, Gmaps, Wiki, Twitter) but miss calendar search! Tisk, tisk, such a step back!
(Sarcasm)
But I can search all those things with one more button press by just accessing the web on my iPhone. Is it easier on the Pre? Yup, it is. But the difference is that I still can. They are advertising Universal Search at the same time they remove the option to search through important things on your local device that have been searchable for the last 10 years.
iPhone? Who said anything about iPhone?
Don't play dumb, although I don't know if you're playing anymore. We've been talking about the Pre's advantages over the iPhone the whole time, and you know it. Your original post is what we've been replaying to in this conversation, and you say Universal Search is an advantage. Further, you clearly have been saying that Spotlight on iPhone is a ripoff of the Pre and that the iPhone's search isn't good because it searches too many things locally and also nothing on the internet.
Actually caj and others were talking about Palm OS devices having calander search and how WebOs doesn't. YOU are the only one who is so fixiacted with the iPhone that you cannot stop trying justify in your own mind why Pre isn't better! This is a Pre oriented website. Go to theiPhoneblog.com if want to keep talking about the iPhone!
Your first two posts of this thread
"Even if Pre didn't have multitasking, I would still get Pre over iPhone 3GS because of Palm Synergy, Intuitive notifications, and faster browser, Mojo messaging/3rd party push, phys keyboard, better network, on and on. But damn do I love multitasking and swiping the cards away!
"... better UI, better OS, Universal Search, faster accelerometer, multitouch in more apps (email, DocViewer, SprintNav, others), more/better native apps (Sprint TV, Sprint Nav, Sprint Nascar, all the apps in catalogue are free also for now)..."
I think it's pretty obvious, especially when you say the iPhone by name and then run down a laundry list of the Pre's supposed advantages over it (which exist in some ways except for the two I took exception with), what you're doing. Stop trying to backpedal. It's not working and you're embarassing yourself.
STOP! It's getting hard to read! LOL
One more thing about UniSearch. Pre has a keyboard in which you can search for items in any app, apart from UniSearch, so you don't have to exit and use Spotlight to find something, or scroll all over the place to find what you want! Just think practically man.
And talk about stealing ideas! Apple did not even begin designing Spotlight until they saw Pre's UniSearch! In the press release in March where the announced iPhone 3.0, they actually said that iPhone 3.0 "will have Pre-like features" like Spotlight... sorry for you, that's the only Pre-like feature they could whip up in time for WWDC!
Universal search isn't universal. Again! And they didn't steal the idea. The iPhone 3.0 was announced a month after the Pre was announced, and spotlight was already built in. They use the same technology they use on their desktops and put it in the iPhone and you think they're copying another phone who hasn't even implemented search in its media player, calendar, or email? What a joke.
Pre announced and demoed on Jan 3rdish, iPhone 3.0 announced on March 18th, not demoed, just announced, 2 months later!! Did I not just quote the press release? 'PRE-LIKE FEATURES'!! Agian, you know nothing about the Pre, you can search the media player, calendars, and email, just not from UniSearch, because it would dumb to do if from UniSearch! Does Spotlight (again, still not released yet) search GMaps, Google, Wiki, Twitter, Facebook, or any online source? Not sure, but don't think so.
A beta was released shortly after announcement with Spotlight working perfectly. They took Spotlight from Mac OSX. It was a direct port since the iPhone runs a mobile version of OSX. It's been OSX's main feature for years.
And dont' give me "Pre-like features". You said "And talk about stealing ideas! Apple did not even begin designing Spotlight until they saw Pre's UniSearch!" STEALING IDEAS.
Universal Search does not search calendars. You can't search the calendar from inside the application either. Attendees might be different, but do you really want to have to put attendees (which can you even create those on the Pre itself?) for "Work-out at Gym" so you can search for those people when you want to find that appointment in the future? And it's not dumb to do it from one central location. It's listed on the basis of relevancy. What does it matter if you have to scroll through some results when the one you want is at the top. At least it gives you the option on looking at your whole phone.
No, spotlight will not search those 4 internet portals. It takes one extra tap to do it in spotlight. I'd much rather have email and calendar in main search than something I can just do in Safari.
Shouldn't be too smug on the copy and paste thing. C&P on the Pre is hugely crippled. You can't even copy a URL or email address out of web page, for Pete's sake.
Wouldn't say it's crippled, but they need to make it so you can copy any text anywhere, not just in editable text fields. I am sure this will be in the first official firmware update.
I hate to say it, but I do not know where the prices came from in this article for existing customers. I am an existing iphone (2g) owner. I upgraded to a 3Gs as an existing at&t plan owner and it was $199 + 2 $19 fees and tax.
http://www.apple.com/iphone/compare-iphones/
down in the fine print area, 1) For non-qualified customers, including existing AT&T customers who want to upgrade from another phone or replace an iPhone 3G, the price with a new two-year agreement is $499 (8GB), $599 (16GB), or $699 (32GB).
Yeah-- I read that AT&T cut some slack to people upgrading from the first iPhone to the iPhone 3g because the first iPhone was NOT subsidized by AT&T. However, the 3G IS subsidized, and I doubt that what AT&T is doing differs from any phone-- if you want to upgrade a year before your 2 year contract is up, you're not gonna get the full subsidized price.
This is amusing to me, though, all the whining tha 3G users are doing, like they're entitled to cheaper prices regardless of how the business model is set up. And with Sprint's premier customer program... I'll qualify for a full upgrade in 12 months :D
from http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/06/08/want-an-iphone-3g-s-already-have-an...
UPDATE So this is what AT&T tells us:
An iPhone 3G customer in most cases can early upgrade at $399 [16GB] or $499 [32GB].
That's still just crazy!
Just like all the Sprint users who've been whining because their 2 year commitment isn't up, and Sprint won't give them a deal? Whiners come in all denominations.
Wow Otter, you upgraded to a phone that is not even released yet? I am amazed...how did you do that?
I'm going to go ahead and guess that he pre-ordered it for delivery on launch day. Just like I did. I'd say that's upgrading it. He didn't receive it yet but he used his upgrade to purchase a phone.
Sprint SEP 450 plan. 70 bucks gets you 450 minutes and unlimited data, messaging, nights and weekends at 7, and Telenav GPS program.
To get that with AT&T you pay 39 for the 450 minutes, 30 for messaging and data, 9 bucks for nights and weekends at 7, and another 10 bucks for the nav. Bringing you to 90 bucks a month.
Sprint's plans still blow ATT away and I am still waiting to start reading POSITIVE network results across the board. I tried them in February and service was horrible here in central Texas.
Hey bubbatex. When you say central TX, are you near San Angelo? Just curios. Would like to ask someone else about their Pre and coverage in town.
Regarding the iPhone pricing issue: I don't see how it is any different from any other carrier. If you're on Sprint and got a new subsidized phone just last year and aren't yet eligible for another subsidy, how much does it cost to buy a Pre? Same thing for Verizon and whatever new must-have phone you'd like to pick up this summer (do they have one?). Seems like in most cases for existing iPhone 3G customers the upgrade price premium is $200 not $400, so $499 for a 32 GB phone (that's my case and I'm not eligible for upgrade until May 2010).
But it wasn't much of a comeback to the Pre. I was hoping it would force Apple to enable at least limited multi-tasking (give me at least 1 app I can leave running please!). I continue to be impressed by the Pre, but am too invested in the Apple ecosystem (apps, etc.) to give up now.
Does AT&T have upgrade plans like Sprint does? (the $75 after a year, $150 after two years)?
Wow I thoiught my day was going to be boring. First I find out the Jimmy Fallon is to be the opening comedian at the Apple event, now this....
Apple if you think Palm and the pre is going lie down and take this, you have got another thing coming.we have only begun...
What about Jimmy Fallon? I must have missed that one.
Isn't Fallon a Pre user now? He had it demoed on his show.
Oh one more thing, on the iphone you still have to open and close an application right? Thought so
For more, please read my rant beginning about 3 comments down. :)
Nope...he is the opening comic..read it on twitter. He posted it.
GET THIS PREPLE: APPLE IPHONE USERS DON'T CARE ABOUT MULTITASKING! I'm glad that you can do two things at the same time when I'll be doing AWESOME things - one app a time - on my 32GB 3GS in 1.5 weeks.
Oh, and enjoy those 18 apps on Pre. Are developers even committed to Pre?
Actually developers are very committed! the DevCamps for the Pre are huge success! I am sure since iPhone can't do it, users "don't care about multitasking". That makes sense (sarcasm). It's like communist China telling their citizens freedom is bad, so they learn not to want it! I hope someone takes the Apple microchip out of your brain stem soon, so you can stop thinking like a fanboy and more like a consumer.
To me, what's more important is an integrated experience than what the Pre offers. Pre is for a more nerdy crowd, not for a basic, easy push-here-dummy experience. God knows how many times I fumbled with Treo's just to find where a bunch of programmers put a basic function.
I hope you're right about the devs. Or else you got yourself a pretty phone that will play old-school Palm apps. Yuck!
Doesnt that make the iPhone in a category of its own? Doesnt it then become a dumb phone? and regular cells are just phones, the pre is a smart phone... You dumb phone user ;)
Here are some of things I will enjoy with my Pre, a better network, better call quality, better OS, just to name a few. The fact Apple is throwing in 32MB should be very telling to you, Apple is focusing on media and gaming, Apple wants you to continue to buy those redundant app's, you're better off getting an ipod touch. By the way, 60% of the developers that created app's for Apples app-store, have already signed up for Palms SDK.
Apple wants you to pay $90 + per month to ATT. That's where the real money pours down.
I wonder--How many apps did the original iPhone launch with? 12? 18?
I just worked 4 days w/an iPhone user--he cared deeply about multitasking. You may not want it or like it, but you are wrong to speak for all iPhone users. In fact, he was planning on visiting a Sprint location to check them out. He loved his iPhone, but showed more than a passing interest in the Pre.
But did he switch?
Here...have some warm milk and a cookie to calm you down my child
Iphone fans were expecting, new casing, OLED screen, front facing camera, 800MHz CPU, etc. What they got, a dressed up iphone 3G, Apple basically added a few features to the 3G iphone unlocked the CPU to it's maximum potential, and added an extra letter. From the comments I've seen on some of the iphone/Apple blogs a lot of iphone fans are upset. I've been telling folks for a while that Apple is more interested in their app-store. The Pre is still a better choice than the 3GS, ATT's network cannot even handle MMS, the new iphone still will not have that feature. Speaking of network, there is no way the 3GS will reach 7.2Mbps on ATT's network, as I said, ATT's network cannot handle MMS. I believe Apple is conceding the cell phone market, for the most part the majority of people who wanted an iphone already have one. Most of them will not be fooled again.
AT&T can handle MMS, but they need some time to make adjustments so it will work with the iPhone.
The network is still a mess however.
You don't know any of that, especially about the CPU. They most likely upgraded it to what's in the Pre, and they definitely added a new 3D processing unit. They also added stuff, it was a good upgrade. ATT's network can handle MMS, they just need to manually enable it for every iPhone user. Stupid, yes. Unable to handle it? No.
Conceding the cell phone market? They kept a $99 iPhone 3G that goes up head to head extremely well with the Pre, for half the price...without rebate. The iPhone and iPhone 3G was only the beginning for crazy sales numbers. It's not like the iPhone has even come close to saturating the people who have ATT; many of them still have dumb phones.
The CPU in the 3G has a max of 600MHz, Apple under clocked it to 400MHz. In the 3GS Apple unlocked it to 600MHz which as I said, is the maximum. Both the 3G and 3GS use the same Samsung ARM 11 Chip. The Pre does not have the same CPU as the iphone. The fact Apple is boasting the 3D processing is proof again, the iphone is gearing more towards a gaming device. Why is it so hard for you iphone fanatics to understand that? ATT specifically said their network is not ready for the iphone's MMS.
"They kept a $99 iPhone 3G that goes up head to head extremely well with the Pre."
Is that a joke, the Pre still outshines 3GS, better/faster CPU, better OS, better functionality, integrated message system, multitasking, etc. The fact the 3G iphone can run the same OS as 3GS, should tell you something. Again, the only differences between the 3G and 3GS, are, the camera and unlocked CPU.
You don't know that they just clocked it back to its maximum. They increased the battery life as well, which is not consistent of removing under-clocking in its current chip. Much more likely is putting a newer CPU that is more power efficient than what they were using. Clocking a processor at 400 mhz up to it's normal 600 doesn't result in more than double and triple the performance on almost every task. Beter 3D? I'll take it. Games are fun sometimes.
ATT's network is ready for MMS. They have it on their other phones. The reason it won't be ready for the iPhone is because they flagged every iPhone account as opting out of MMS. If you had looked at an iPhone account on ATT's OLAM, you'd see the flag exists. They now have to undo those flags, manually. It's widely reported, I'm not telling you a conspiracy theory here to defend ATT. It's really dumb of them, but they support it. Calling ATT to remove the flag will enable MMS. They're just saying it will take a couple of months to do it for you.
And I didn't bring up the 8GB iPhone 3G to say it's better than the Pre. I said it stacks up well against it and it was in direct refutation of your original point that Apple was conceding the mobile market. I put that there to show their making a stronger play than ever at getting that "fat middle" of people who still have dumb-phones.
Apples marketing has you well programmed, sad, but true.
Explain where I'm wrong or refute my reasoning. Until then, stop with the mindless fanboy accusations.
One example, the CPU! ;-)
Where do you see that the 3GS's processor is the normally clocked version of what is under-clocked in the iPhone 3G now? Logically, I don't see how they get more battery life by clocking their current CPU to it's normal speed and keeping the same battery size. Further, you actually think loading applications and other stuff 2 to 3 times faster could be accomplished by a simple 200 mhz clock increase and improve battery life at the same time?
I'm just doubtful. If you have a source I'll gladly concede this point, but as of yet I didn't think anyone knew exactly what hardware was in the iPhone 3GS. If you could provide a link, that would be great.
It's a great possibility (likely) 3GS will have less battery life than 3G. Apple are saying 3GS is 3 times faster than 3G. 3G was supposedly 3 times faster than 2G, there is a huge difference in battery life between 2G and 3G.
Apple's iphone OS is written for the ARM architecture, will be available for the iPhone 3G and the new 3G S; if Apple planned to move to a new processor architecture, the iphone OS 3.0 would not straddle both phones. I reiterate, 3G and 3GS have the same CPU.
The iPhone 3G was never advertised as 3 times as fast in general use. The internet was advertised as much faster because of the EDGE-->3G switch. Further, it won't have worse battery life, it will have better. The times might be inflated, but they'd be inflated universally for all generations.
Aren't there newer ARM processors than there were 2 years ago when the iPhone was introduced? Please, give me a link on why you think they have the same processor.
Here you go: http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3579
I already told him to take the Apple microchip out of his brain-stem. His logic is horrendous. He cares nothing about practicallity, just only what Apple has to offer, nothing less, nothing more. He is so brainwashed!
I almost bought a Pre! Hell, I would have if it had calendar search on launch day. I love the Pre, it's a great device. What have I ever said that was a fanboyish/Apple-stan statement? Please, quote me.
Go to the top of the page and start there. Just look for your name under the comment.
Says the person who thinks the iPhone doesn't have multi-touch in its native applications and that the Pre actually does seach through your calendar and email (even though everyone knows it doesn't), and who resorted to ad hominem attacks on my intelligence instead of making valid points...
The easiest way to make someone look dumb is by showing them they are wrong in their logic or conclusions, not directly insulting their intelligence and bringing SAT scores into the mix.
Do you just like lying to yourself? I did not say iPhone doesn't have multitouch in its native apps!! I said that Pre has MORE native apps that use multitouch. This is why I began insulting your reading comprehension ability. The Pre does search through calanders and email, just not in the same way iPhone does. That doesn't make it inferior! I am sure I explained clearly the way it searches.
Logic 101: You can't compare apples (no pun intended) to oranges, then say you like the taste of apples better, then say oranges suck, just because you like apples better!
This is the last time I will comment on your responses, your iPhone obsession is not letting you think clearly.
thank god
This is you:
"The iphone uses multitouch for basically two native apps (web and photos)."
That's a quote.
I named four off the top of my head that come native with the iPhone and youu continue to argue semantics.
I then refuted that. Don't pretend you didn't say what you did.
EDIT: This is a reply to Ecoteric, not to caj :)
Read my initial comment that you responded to, then read your response. I have never seen a more fan boyish response in my life!
Then immediately I begin to correct you and defend everything I said that you called "utter crap", eventhough I never said one thing bad about iPhone, was just touting Pre's advantages!
The problem with fanboys like you is that you are so brainwashed with the "coolest new thing" that you feel offended and threatened by someone even considering that something else is better. For example, Pre's UniSearch searches contacts, apps, documents, files, then 4 internet sources. But you say it's not really Uni because it doesn't search a few things that iPhone does. That is fanyboyish!! Eventhough, overall it searches a larger database than the iPhone! Am I starting to get through to you? What if I said that iPhone's home screen is not really a home screen because it doesn't have activity cards? That would make no sense. You get it?
The Pre's advantages you stated aren't advantages if you misstate the features of the iPhone you're comparing it with. I picked two features out of your "advantages" list, and refuted them. You won't let that go, and that's your fault. If you remember, all I said was that the Pre DOES have advantages over the iPhone, you were just too ignorant about the competition to pick the right ones.
Badandy127 makes sense. the other guy makes less sense and is obnoxious.
I am sorry I forced you to read my comments. Sorry for the gun that I put to your head, that was so obnoxious of me.
Other people have tried to get through to this guy about what a non-objective fanboy he is. You are the only one who thinks he makes sense.
Now that's definitely not true. If I were spewing falsehoods I'd have more than one person (you) all over my case. I'm being objective, and considering I was about 50/50 on which phone I wanted to get before ultimately deciding on the iPhone 3GS, I have no reason not to be. I almost bought a Pre and still think it's a great phone.
Ecoteric, name your favorite feature on the iPhone that doesn't exist on the Pre. I dare you!
Not nearly as bad as it sounds. I got my 16GB iphone 3G July last year, the day it came out. If I bought in June when it comes out the 32 gig 3GS will cost $499. BUT, if I wait until July 12, 2009, I can get it for the same price as someone new, $299. And that's for phone with much better battery life than the existing one (and much better than what I got with the Pre- returned it today), 4 times the storage, etc., etc. Yeah, I know supposedly Sprint is cheaper, but you get what you pay for. AT&T for me has been superb. Plus, the Pre overheated, couldn't handle exchange on a company locked server, had lousy battery life, etc. Had great hopes for it, but it is definitely not ready for prime time.
For what it's worth, I rarely get dropped calls on ATT'3 3G network. Also, my data averages about 1.2 mbps on their 3G in Los Angeles, which seems like a lot more than people are currently seeing on their Pre's. ATT's network is also able to do voice + data simultaneously. People have different experiences, those are mine.
I used ATT in 2004. I wanted to kick myself in the crotch regularly because my calls wouldn't go through. I had to send and send again my calls that would be met by a voice telling me the call wouldn't go through. Very frustrating. And then ATT took $200+ out of my checking account accidentally. I take partial blame on that one for giving a corp accounting department my direct-debit info (never again).
T-mob was nicer to me, but their network coverage wasn't better.
Now I have Sprint and it's 2nd only to Verizon in call quality and coverage where I live. I can't comment on data transfer rates; I've been avoiding getting a data plan to save cash.
Remember, that was 5 years ago. Do you remember Sprint 5 years ago? ATT has invested billions in their infrastructure and towers since even the original iPhone launch. Still, it can be better, and I don't doubt Sprint's coverage is better in some areas. I think ATT gets a pretty bad reputation in terms of current service based on how it was even 1 or 2 years ago. I still get a couple of dropped calls, but not nearly as often as when the iPhone originally launched. My 3G is way fast, too.
I agree with your T-Mobile comment. They're super nice and accomodating but their coverage is just too limiting.
Totally valid point about coverage evolution.
I wish there was more transparency in understanding network coverage. I'm about to move, and I don't want to sign a contract with the crap-network of the neighborhood. You know what I'm saying?
Anyway, I'm pro-smartphone awesomeness regardless of the company. But the apps catalog needs to expand faster for PRE or I'm going to pounce on the Palm Treo Pro, probably. I do tons of journaling on my phone in my free time. iPhone and Pre don't seem to fit that bill very well for me (iphone->softQWERTY issues and Pre->app-anemia). I am cheering for the Pre--I even have flirted with the idea of writing my own webOS apps.
Couldn't you just sign up for a contract with a network and return it if the coverage isn't good? IDK if there are any restocking/activation fees that would make that a bad option. Secondly, I hate how coverage maps always show blanket coverage over areas where it is spotty. I don't expect a real-life Verizon guy to go over every inch of the U.S. to do coverage maps, but perhaps a few more real-world tests instead of theoretical range estimates should be in order...
I'd rather a palm pre. But new customer to new customer the $99 8gb iphone compared to a 8gb pre for $199 after mail-in rebate at a corporate store is more appealing.
I love Pre's small stature. What if the Pre was 5% bigger? Yes/no?
Adjust your screen resolution to 1280 by 800. Adjust your browser to 100% scale, and look at this life-size pic of the pre, 5% larger! http://twitpic.com/6ziae/full
Do you like it the way it is or larger?
I realize this is a Pre-ferred site but just wanted to say that I have a non-iPhone AT&T account eligible for upgrade. My current offer allows upgrade to the iPhone 3G(S) for the 99/199/299 pricing.
I went out on Saturday and got the Pre to try it out before deciding if I wanted to upgrade to the iPhone. So far I like it very well. I will look at the 3GS when it comes out on the 19th, but it will have to really impress me to make me return the Pre. As for the Pre, the battery life is my biggest concern. It doesn't last all day if you actually "use" the Pre.
Right. They need to start making Pre-specific 1600 mA batteries. Then offer a trade in at Palm and Sprint stores for $5 or something.
Palm will avoid doing this. Palm will probably try fixing a few bugs as they possibly can without losing the majority's loyalty. It's a gamble, that's for sure.
Why should Palm gamble? Because there's a pot of gold: the next iteration of Pre can fix one bug at a time each year. And each year many of the same sheeple-Eloi will buy a new phone and sign a new contract with the exclusive device subsidizer/ servicer. Perfect device the first time = one-time cash infusion + cult-classic.
How else can a company (such as Apple or RIM or Palm) afford to pay a perks and pensions to your design/ electrical/ mechanical engineers? Call me an armchair corp-biz strategist.
Why do you apple fan boys follow apple so... The people who brought you the iphone dont work for apple any more... Palm owns them now, idiots.
I fail to see your point. They were lured away from Apple by Palm and they created a great phone. Why must you be so adversarial without being provoked in the slightest?
Good Point
Haha! Thanks for the laugh. :)
:)
I just needed a taste of being a fanboy for the moment. Isnt that what apple fanboys do? Blert out worthless statements?
Well if you've read this thread you'd see it's the other way around...
Actually it goes both ways, both camps have them, there is no sensible convo here...
Huge misinformation here! Rubenstein had nothing to do with the iPhone. He did create the iPod though. A few of the iPhone software engineers came over to Palm and helped create the Pre. But it's not like the Pre is really just an Apple device with a Palm logo on it!
A few of the engineers? The iPhone was inspired by the iPod. Therefore, the Pre is a rebranded iPhone. (bait)
Remember, you said you wouldn't respond to me anymore...
God you are a loser.
Not my fault you can't stop digging an even deeper hole for yourself even after you promised you'd stop.
I've been objective this whole thread. I was considering buying a Pre and still think it's a great phone. The iPhone *barely* won out in my decision. I have no reason to not be objective. I raised issues with your uninformed posts that you could not defend and instead you threw up the response everyone else does when they should concede a point: "You're just a fanboy" or "You're such an Apple stan."
I mean, when I asked you to pick out one of my statements where I displayed utter subjectivity you couldn't do it. You just said "all of it". You're the only one who seems to take exception with all my posts here, and I wonder why? Here's a hint: I'm raising valid points with the ultimate objective to inform people of their choices without using divisive rhetoric or misformed opinions. I'm acknowledging the merits of both phones and making no unsupported claims tainted by allegiance to a company I don't even work for.
"Rubenstein had nothing to do with the iPhone."
He was there during the design of the original iPhone. It's been reported in several articles that he disagreed with Steve Jobs over whether or not it should have a physical keyboard, and that dispute was part of why he opted to leave Apple. Since he was there, and in a senior-level position, it's hard to make a case that he wasn't involved.
He left well before the iPhone was created. Having a keyboard or not is a very early schematic design decision! Rubenstein did not influence the UI, OS, software on the device, and obviously not the hardware.
Correct, Rubinstein designed the original ipod, he left in 2001.
Go Pre!!! iPhone scary cats...lol
Man this is getting out of hand. Why can't we all just get along and enjoy the wonderful technology. Both the iPhone and Pre are good phones and people will like them for different reasons. The Pre should be good at this point it would be a shame if they released it to be no better that iPhone 2G. The had almost 3 years to get it right (so the fact that they included things like multitasking and synergy are features I would expect, however it wreaks havoc on the battery life...guess Apple got that right...). The iPhone 3GS is another step in innovation it offers faster internet speeds, a better camera, video recording, etc. as a poster mentioned above who wouldn't want those things. For existing users like myself the price is steep, but you can choose not to buy it. The iPhone 3G is still a great phone and better than any other out there hands down (we all know it), but it had 3 years to get to this point. I also stood in line on Saturday excited about getting the Pre. I really like the phone, but all of the things that separate it from the iPhone is the reason I returned it. The multitasking is great, but as I said it kills the battery. The physical keyboard is too small and limiting (no landscape mode which is great for surfing the web. The copy/paste feature does have it's limitations. The reason I was in line so long was that the synergy feature didn't work right and didn't handle mine or others contracts right (one lady came back twice). With that being said, version "1" of this phone is a success and a definate step in the right direction. The release of the Storm, G1, Pre and iPhone is opened up the market for better and more innovative phones. Phones that we "all" will benefit from. Why do we care which one is better when you have a choice to buy what you want.
The gauntlet has been laid down by both Apple/AT&T and Palm/Sprnt, no let's see what our T-Mobile friends will do (heard the HTC myTouch/Magic will be release this month)...
Verizon has the Storm which was a good first attempt as well.
That's exactly right. I don't care which one is better. I'm just trying to correct people for misrepresenting facts, whichever side those misrepresentations happen to be on. Sorry your Pre didn't work out, hope you like your iPhone. That's your choice based on your experiences with both. One fits you, another phone might fit someone else. The problem I have is with people putting their favorite product on a pedestal by unfairly criticising whatever's competing with it. It doesn't matter if it's the Pre or the iPhone. If someone said the iPhone was better because the Pre couldn't play music in the background, I'd correct them and say they were flat out wrong. If someone said the Pre was better because you could use multi-touch in only two apps on the iPhone, I would (and did) correct them.
I wise man once told me to not argue with fools, because from a distance, or online, you can't tell who is who.
You're spouting nonsense. Just go play with your Pre.
Just wanted to restate my original posting before this iPhoner moron started telling me that I was busting on the iPhone, when I actually never said anything negative about the iPhone! Here:
"Even if Pre didn't have multitasking, I would still get Pre over iPhone 3GS because of Palm Synergy, Intuitive notifications, and faster browser, Mojo messaging/3rd party push, phys keyboard, better network, on and on. But damn do I love multitasking and swiping the cards away!
... better UI, better OS, Universal Search, faster accelerometer, multitouch in more apps (email, DocViewer, SprintNav, others), more/better native apps (Sprint TV, Sprint Nav, Sprint Nascar, all the apps in catalogue are free also for now)..."
Then this moron tries to tell me that I "spouting nonsense about the iPhone". Does anyone see anything negative in this quote about the iPhone? I didn't think so.
If you weren't such a brainwashed, iPhone sheep, you would see that I was stating positives/advantages about the Pre!
""... better UI, better OS, Universal Search, faster accelerometer, multitouch in more apps (email, DocViewer, SprintNav, others), more/better native apps (Sprint TV, Sprint Nav, Sprint Nascar, all the apps in catalogue are free also for now)...""
I took exception with your "Universal Search" as being better than the iPhone. I take exception with Universal Search because of the following reason: While you can search through 4 internet portals from the home-screen, I can do that by just going online. It takes longer, though, but it's possible. Conversely, while I can search through calendar and email (important for many people, maybe not you though), you can't. At all.
I then took exception to "multi-touch in more apps" because you originally said that the iPhone had only two native apps that could utilize multi-touch. That's what you said. I immediately responded with four that could (web, email, photos, google maps) off the top of my head.
That's it. That's all I said. I said nothing fanboy-ish, nothing. You can tell me I'm a fanboy all you want, but I said nothing that could be construed as being unfairly subjective.
I mean, when I asked you to pick out one of my statements where I displayed utter subjectivity you couldn't do it. You just said "all of it". You're the only one who seems to take exception with all my posts here, and I wonder why? Here's a hint: I'm raising valid points with the ultimate objective to inform people of their choices without using divisive rhetoric or misformed opinions. I'm acknowledging the merits of both phones and making no unsupported claims tainted by allegiance to a company I don't even work for.
See in your mind if I say the Pre is 10 in one aspect and iPhone is 9 or 8 in the same aspect, then you perceive that as a bust on the iPhone and a personal attack for some reason. So you lash out and so that what I said was "utter crap". When it is just merely a small difference of opinion. That is the iPhone fanboy mentality that so many of us are sick of! Saying that my preferences are "utter crap" must be part of your "ultimate objective to inform..." LOL. Such bs, I can't even say out-loud without cracking up!
I never said that your preferences are utter crap. People have opinions. You have one opinion. I have another opinion. I can accept that. You like the UI more than the iPhone? That's fine with me! I might too!
It's when you took your preferences and tried to turn them into facts that I started replying to you. You are ignorant about the competition, and I'll point to just one example so you can understand it.
You said only two native applications on the iPhone could utilize multi-touch. I named four off the top of my head. That's when you launched into your screams of "fanboy" over and over while ignoring what facts mean.
That's it. Seriously. That's all I said, along with the fact that the iPhone's search can search email and calendar events and the Pre's can't. That is fact, not opinion. You can keep calling it an "iPhone fanboy mentality" all you want, but everyone else knows that's not what I'm displaying.
Go read my original post, then go read your immediate response, then comeback and tell me you didn't say that what I said was "utter crap". You can't do it. I'm sure you don't want to look like the bad guy, so now it it convenient for you to start spinning and mincing your words when all anyone has to do is just re-read the thread. I'm done with you iPhone boy, this is not an iPhone blog!
Spin words? I quoted you and refuted what you were saying with facts. I called your post utter crap because it was. When did I ever deny that I said your post was utter crap? Never.
You said only two native apps on the iPhone could use multi-touch,
-That's not true. I named four.
You were wrong in your comparison, I pointed why your comparison was wrong with facts. That's not being a fanboy, no matter the tone you think I used.
I have looked at the Fallon link...he is actually making fun of the Apple convention. He probably didn't get it anyway
I'm a windows mobile user who is looking to switch to the pre or the iphone. The comments are this thread are great read and hilarious.
one very interesting point that i noticed early in the comments - "Why would I want to search emails and calendars from outside the email and calendars applications?! Universal search is meant to search actual data usage items on device, things that actually have place holders like contacts, applications, and then on the internet: on Gmaps, Google, Wiki, Twitter, and more to come..."
a true universal search does seem a bit much. wouldn't the results be overwhelming if you had a lot of email and calendar entries? anyone with an iphone have any complaints about this? i would think it would be better if search was available within email and calendar but left out of the main search when you want to find something fast on the phone. given that i haven't used either - what do people think?
if palm is looking at expanding their search capability, hopefully they take this into consideration.