Bradley: HP may "resurrect" TouchPad? | webOS Nation
 
 

Bradley: HP may "resurrect" TouchPad? 146

by Derek Kessler Tue, 30 Aug 2011 11:11 am EDT

HP Personal Systems Group EVP Todd Bradley is currently over in China, where he spoke to Reuters about the future of the PSG. Speaking somewhat candidly, Bradley admitted that the preferred path for the PSG is a spin-off as an independent company and not an attempt to sell the massive PC manufacturing arm of HP to another company. Quashing rumors about his possible departure, Bradley said that he intends to stay on through this transition, and to lead the separated company if it comes to that.

He also broached the subject of webOS, which he claims to have not been in China to discuss, even though he has said previously that “a number of companies” have approached HP about the mobile operating system. What caught us by surprise was a line in the Reuters story: “Bradley said the company could resurrect HP's short-lived TouchPad tablet computer.” There’s not a direct quote on the subject, but we can’t help but be conflicted about the prospects.

On one hand, HP very publicly trashed webOS hardware and it would be a massive public relations reversal to switch around to building and selling the TouchPad again, not to mention the expenses HP has already incurred in shutting down manufacturing and the discounting to fire sale pricing. On the flip side of the coin, the response to the discounted TouchPad has been so intense that even HP was caught off guard by the demand. Of course, that’s demand for a full-fledged tablet priced at $100 – a price where HP is taking a considerable loss.

It’s important not to mistake enthusiasm for a great deal for enthusiasm for the platform. For sure, the shut down and fire sale have greatly increased awareness of webOS, but actual desire is a fickle thing. But if HP can pull off closing down the product, dumping it into the market at negative margins, and then brining it back to life as a healthy ecosystem, that’d be the public relations coup of the decade. We’re not sure HP’s quite that savvy.

Source: Reuters; Thanks to rot and Bill for the tips!

146 Comments

Let me put this nicely... s c r e w you HP, s c r e w YOU!

I understand the sentiment... but how about this instead:

S c r e w You LEO & HP BOARD.

S C R E W YOU LEO & HP BOARD.

For somebody that speaks 5 languages, Leo cannot communicate effectively at all. It would be nice if HP could hire a CEO for once that had some long-term vision. Maybe promote a CEO from within that had some invested stake in the company. Carly, Mark and Leo all pee'd on the HP bush to make their mark.

"Carly, Mark and Leo all pee'd on the HP bush to make their mark. "

And now no one wants to go near that bush.

Almost anyone from this board could do a better job at the top of HP than what they have had of late.

I echo all of these sentiments!

It's such a relief as a Palm/gadget guy to finally be watching the whole Palm-HP-webOS fiasco thing from the sidelines.

Waiting for a suitable Pre Plus replacement (my second Pre) after having a launch day Pre Minus was about all I could take after nearly 2 years on the webOS roller coaster. I'm off and finally looking at these corporate blunders without the heartburn I felt while I was vested in webOS.

I'm surprised we're not hearing a peep from Leo, specially now at this trying point in time where a voice of leadership is required to reassure both customers as well as investors. Perhaps they've muffled him, eh?

What HP's board should really do is spin off Leo and his business plan with some nice, funky non-HP related name ... ooh, how about "Autonomy"?

And then let's get back to business.

I'm not sure they are capable of it either. I think the demand is essential in finding a company to buy their selloff. By proving demand and increasing userbase, WebOS now looks attractive to a buyer and drives the value up.

Well at least this is a sign that webos isn't dead.... :/

Severely wounded, but still alive...does anybody have any Kingsfoil?

Do you mean "Athelas"? Isn't that a weed ;)

Sell them for $100 and $150 and it'll do great. Try to sell them at the higher price points, and we're going to have the same problems all over again.

The lowest market price for the TP is $225 on eBay. So I'd say they could sell it for zero loss to a small profit of $10-$20 per unit.

Not necessarily true. Look at E-bay. They are going for $200 - $300.

I think TouchPads would sell if they were as good or preferably better than iPad hardware wise (thin & FAST) and sell at a price point of $199 - $249 16 GB and $299 - $329 32 GB. Of course the software apps need to catch up, to provide the truly desired and needed apps.

$149 for 16gb and $199 for 32gb.

That is the market price. If they can find a way to make money off apps and other stuff, to make up for the loss up front it could work. Get enough touchpads out there and they can get phones sold to people who will become familiar with, and love webos. Then you make money...

Again, it's not about selling a few on ebay, it's about flooding the market and massively undercutting Ipad. Just because diehards buy on ebay means nothing, diehards here bough the thing for $500 and $600, and now they look like fools.

What market are you looking at? Ebay prices are in the $200-300 range. Even those prices would have been a loss for HP. They should have priced the 16GB at $300-350 and the 32GB for $400-450. That would have undercut the Xoom and the iPad but would have given them much higher sales.

I am looking at a $99 dollar price tag that people are going crazy to buy it.... Not selling the thing on ebay....

If HP had 10 million Touchpads to sell they would probably sell them all at the reduced price, and that creates Market Share, which is what WebOS has always lacked and could finally have.... if they are willing to lose money out of the gate, and find a way to mke up for it through apps and stuff.

People here are enthusiasts, not regular consumers who HP and WebOS desperately need. HP has you already, they probably had you at $600... they need the other people.

A lot of people bought them at Staples at the $299 price point. They are still being sold well on Ebay at the $250 price point. It can build market share at these prices, just obviously not as fast as a $99 or $1 Touchpad.

There's a big range of middle ground between what some enthusiasts here paid $500-$600 and the $99 fire sale price.

I think we can all agree that the first is too high and the second is too low (at least if they intend to sustain the price point indefinitely).

They are not selling like hot cakes on eBay because #1 everyone is waiting on HP's 2nd wave of $99 TPs #2 everyone is mad at the ebay guys for hogging all the $99 TP just to profit. They are just being scalpers.

if they were the normal price they would be selling out.

Actually those ebay prices are after the bidders have pushed the price up. They are selling at those prices.

Now consider ebay sales price is usually slightly lower than what you would see in brick and mortar or more reputable online shops at $250ish on ebay lots of folks will gladly pay 25 to 50 more to not have to ship and deal with a company they know will be around the next day.

See the link below, ending right now, 23 bids, price right at $250 w/ $15 shipping. If that is an ebay price, brick and mortar could easily retail at $299.99.

Yeah, they could really probably sell them at 499 and 599.

I know you have no desire for fact or a functional worthwhile discussion. My post is complete fact to current market condition.

It's okay though, soon enough the front page will be updated and trolls like you will be gone.

what are you going to do to us? I have rights!

Uhmm unless you own this site, the moderators can choose what posts they deem are out of line.

There's very little happening in the WebOS world going forward, especially concerning PHONES, so I sincerely doubt anyone cares whether the front page gets even more silly and dictatorial.

There are actually many people that care, and P|C staff have confirmed changes coming to the front page server/software.

But if they ban the people critiquing HP, what will Derek use as material for his next hypocritical rant that makes no difference whatsoever?

I am sure you are very aware there is a difference between critiquing HP and trolling.

CNET's Brooke Crothers had an article on Aug 27, where he interviewed a financial analyst who had this to say, "If you were a big company like HP and you were doing a new category product launch, it would not be weird to have a marketing budget in the hundreds of millions... so, you could have used that money to subsidize the price of the TouchPad and you can flood the market with these devices that are worth way more than you have to pay for them. And get them in everybody's hands. Get everybody talking about it. That could have been the loss leader entry into the market". Fascinating take on the tablet market already saturated by Apple's I.P. Like gaming console market, perhaps (though admittedly unlikely) HP could slim down a new wave of Touchpads to save some manufacturing costs, while subsidizing the lower pricepoint on the back-end through other avenues, like accessories, apps, OS updates, and/or subscription services.

HP isn't going to make up for the losses through "apps and stuff." Get real.

Not to mention, it targets the cheap people or those that already have primary tablets and has a Touchpad for backup or to port android to. These aren't the ones who are going to spend on other services even if HP offered them.

Look at this forum. Most are jumping up and down at how FREE everything is. They won't spend the money that HP would need to subsidize these losses. Heck, most here are still stuck on Sprint because they can't afford otherwise.

I haven't bought one webOS app yet for this Touchpad. I spent 90 on one Touchpad, sold the rest for a good profit, got an upgrade to box.net, and basically using free apps & preware. It's just a toy to use around the house. Something to let the kid use so you can use an ipad (that I've spent hundreds in apps alone on) in peace.

But then again, i could easily make over 250 off this touchpad and touchstone i kept. I'll probably end up ebaying it too if i get bored with it. It makes little sense to keep at that FMV.

It turns out that people everywhere jump up and down for free stuff. It's not just this forum. It happens for free iPad and Android apps too.

You make it seem like a bad thing that people are price conscious with their decisions. Wal-Mart and Target built very good businesses on models catering to the value-minded customer. In fact, they've done so well at delivering products cheaply that I can't think of any similar higher-end chains like them. I can't think of an Apple-like store that competes with Wal-Mart and Target. Am I missing one?

You're right. Relying on value minded customers to make up tablet losses by selling them "apps and stuff" seems like a good plan.

When Sony comes out with Playstation 4, they will sell it at a loss, they make up for that loss by selling people "games and Stuff"

When AT&T sells someone an iPhone it's at a loss, they make up for that by selling "data and stuff"

But who am I to argue with the ebay selling master of all time? What is your feedback score? 99.8%?

Sony sells those games for 50-60 a pop. HP? They're lucky if someone downloads a 99 cent app. Besides they're too busy handing out 6 packs and free updates like doc editing.

Please, let me know what HP could sell to subsidize its tablets? 99 cent apps of which it only gets 30% or so? Get real. The costs of providing the app catalog services eats that up.

Data plan? Nope

Media? Nope. HP has no clue there.

High priced accessories? Nope.

C'mon, this is easy right? Just sell at a huge loss. Brilliant :P HP needs to go all in on that.

I can give some insight on how one value-minded customer thinks - me.

At $499, I couldn't justify a tablet. At $299 at Staples, I tried to buy one, but couldn't find on in stock. At $99, I got two, one for me and one for my wife. (Note: I was too value-minded to pay 50% more for the 32GB version.)

I went out and spent $140 on high-margin accessories - getting two cases, two touchstones, and a keyboard at Best Buy, even though those were highly discounted. I would have paid more for the accessories, like I would have for the TouchPad, but HP priced everything at firesales. Good for me.

On the apps side, as soon as my TouchPads arrive (in a couple of hours according to FedEx), I'll be getting Glimpse for $5 and KalemSoft Media Player for $8. The Media Player is very much a required app purchase for anyone interested in using their TouchPads for video. I'll surely be buying more apps as I discover them.

If you don't understand why HP is giving out the 6 pack apps (to help developers get money and get people introduced to using the app catalog) you are very much a lost cause.

Is all that enough to support a $99 TouchPad? Of course not. Is it enough to support a TouchPad at around $299, probably pretty close to break even from what we know about the cost to make the devices.

If HP were to create a TouchPad 2, they could reduce the amount of loss they are taking. The idea is to incrementally get that back up to profitability while getting users. It's not about being profitable now. You have to follow the plan that Microsoft did with the Xbox, lose money for a couple of years to get users and then focus on monetizing.

And if everyone went out and did what you did, HP would still lose big. You say you bought high margin accessories but they were heavily discounted..lol How was this helping HP mitigate what they lost with your two touchpad purchases? Along with spending 13 dollars on a few apps that netted HP 3.90. I know, you're willing to spend a lot more on apps. You'd have to spend 700+ on apps just so HP would get a little over 200 back. But you bought two touchpads. HP is still losing big.

Even if they sold the Touchpads at 299, its still a loser for them.

Do you have a better plan?

Do you intend to sell the tablet at above cost? That has been tried. It failed due to lack of apps and user-base. It's chicken-and-the-egg, can't get the developers without sales of hardware, can't get sales of hardware without developers.

The selling at a loss solves that problem as people are willing to buy tablets at the right price without apps. Once a userbase is there, you most certainly can make up the losses by gradually delivering better product at lower losses and making it up selling them apps, accessories, etc.

Costco does quite well selling extras to value-minded customers. People go in with the idea that they are going to save a few dollars on a barrel of mustard and come out with a new camping tent - happens all the time.

I like your Costco analogy I go there all the time to buy water and some chicken and maybe pizza. Thinking I will only buy these few items. Does that happen? No, I leave typically buying 150 and up worth of goodies.

HP isn't a retailer like Costco. That's a silly comparison.

Try to understand. HP would never make up any losses on hardware through the app catalog. Perhaps a bit on accessories but good luck when you sell the tablet for 99. How will they sell a Touchstone for high margin? They had to cut those prices too.

If I was HP and hellbent on making webOS a success, then I have to go all in with it. It's just damn risky though.

What I mean by "all in" is by investing billions into getting services as well as "apps & stuff" that people want and need. This will help sell your hardware. They also have to decide to focus on consumers as well.

They HAVE to find a way to leverage those PC's & printers they sell.

What would or could HP invest in or acquire that people would want to use with a Touchpad purchase? That's the big question. And this is what people need to talk about when discussing what HP should do even if they just want to continue with the software only.

When i fire up a touchpad, i should be able to launch an app that brings up my HP computer and let's me operate it seamlessly. I should be able to operate my webOS phone seamlessly from my touchpad. TV at home? I should be able to launch a tv app that let's me view and operate it on touchpad or vice versa and play on tv wirelessly.

Brand it. Call it HP Connect or something and offer a premium version of it as a subscription.

HP talked all about connected devices. This was what sold me and kept me interested. So far, there's nothing being connected hardly. But focus on this. Bake it into the OS so that it's talked about.

Lowering prices to 99 in hopes that it brings in more users and by that more apps is foolish (but is what you're advocating). Money should always be spent on trying to build the foundation in an attempt to lure buyers. I would have stayed the course at 399 a touchpad and poured money into providing services and connectivity and improving webOS.

Now Glenn, they don't look like fools. Some of them are pretty smart dressers, fitted shirts, casual slacks, and several wear t-shirts with witty yet understated messages (probably from wootshirt I would say). Now I know a couple of us have worn socks with sandals and yes, that is a fashion faux pax, but you have to allow a slight amount of eccentricity, don't you think?

I could see it slightly higher...$199 for 16gb and $249 for 32gb.

They could've done this from the get-go, take a slight loss, get the TP and WebOS out into the market and then drop the TP2 in Summer 2012.."First Quad Core Tablet" = )

If HP brings back the touchpad, they would HAVE to fix many of the problems that plague this one now. They would need to improve the performance of the unit as well as add other components that were missing or not working in this one. It absolutely cannot be half-baked and they have to do better with graphics performance. You can just tell that it's not optimized on the touchpad when using it for just a few minutes.

People bought this at $99 b/c of the firesale price and because they realized it was the last webos device. HP should never have went toe-to-toe with apple in pricing. People knew right away it wasn't an ipad2 and weren't about to pay the same price for less.

HP also bumbled when they announced another touchpad like device was coming shortly after the touchpad. People knew this touchpad was lacking somewhat and anticipated that the next one would be better, so they held their purchase.

Last, they haven't released an updated phone yet for the Pre. I think many people were anticipating this first before their tablet purchase. If you ask me, however, HP should've brought out a slab phone that didn't have slider problems or keyboard problems. Sure, there are many people who want a keyboard, but truth be known, the majority of people don't want a small keyboard but rather a virtual keyboard. Proof is in the pudding since a vast majority of android and ios phones are selling with virtual keyboards. They should've introduced two different phones (slab and slider). The slab would've been more resilient b/c no moving parts and it would've been viewed as more "solid".

At $70 for a Touchstone charger and $40 for a rubber cover. At those prices for accessories, HP can still recover a lot of the cost of the HW.

True, I distinctly heard Bradley, in an employee meeting before the touchpad came out, say that HP was not trying to compete with Apple for their customers but were trying to tap those "on the fence" customers that had not bought into this technology. Can you think of a better way to do this? Most of us know how we felt when we found out how good this OS was and how we really don't want to leave it. Where would I go if webOS was no more...

The lack of speed in webOS 3.0 has little to do with the hardware in the TouchPad, which is actually quite solid.

I'd say around the ebay prices people should still be biting. Which is around 200 for the 16gb and 250 for the 32gb. $100 and $150 really were INSANE prices!!! Not that anyone was complaining.

how about resurrecting the pre 3 to I can touch to share..... **** !!!!

Yeah keep your kids away from this pervert.

They should sell them at the price that they are selling at eBay. 199 for the 16g and 249 for the 32

+50 and I'd still get it... However prices would have to be dollars and no straight 1:1 conversion to euro's

I have to agree that such a move would be far too savvy given the recent decisions made at HP.

That said, resurrecting the TouchPad would be an amazing move for HP at this point, and would likely earn them some goodwill among the WebOS faithful (and consumers who missed out on the fire-sale).

Should HP in fact return the TouchPad to market, the obvious question is whether they have learned a valuable lesson from this 'experiment'. Clearly, pricing a tablet in-line with the iPad is a recipe for disaster, and if you look at the TouchPad prices on eBay it seems the $250 range is really the price-point to hit.

If HP can commit to the TouchPad and sell it for a price that 'makes sense' to consumers, the ecosystem will continue to grow (beyond it's recent surge) -- once the app catalog expands and the hardware is refined, the pricing can be brought up. Perhaps a non-Apple tablet will never succeed at $500, but quality hardware with an extensive app selection can surely command a price that is close to that.

Ultimately, it's a question of commitment and the willingness to allow time for the ecosystem to develop.

After a $100 fire sale I wouldn't turn around and buy the same TP at $250. They'd at least have to release a new model with better specs and way more apps than are out there now.

If you have a $100 TouchPad then you wouldn't be the target audience to buy a $250 one.

However, those who missed out the $100 TouchPads and are in the market for a tablet might find themselves thinking, "At $250, this is a very good deal when compared to the competition." Not everyone will have this thought, but surely a good number would.

I don't have a TP, though I do want one. However after being burned by the fire sale (pun intended). I would NOT buy the same product for $250.

I wouldn't either.

Me either.

How were you burned by the fire sale?

If you had to buy a tablet tomorrow (say that school or work required you to have an iOS, Android, or webOS tablet to run a required app, but for some reason weren't going to reimburse you) and the TouchPad was available for $250, and an Android Transformer at $399, or an iPad at $499, which would you buy?

You might respond that you'd take the other two because you've built up enough spite due to "being burned by the fire sale", but I think a more rationale consumer would go with the TouchPad (this presumes that HP pledges to again support the ecosystem and it isn't a dead-end like it was thought to be with the $99 price point.)

The fire sale prices were too low, hence the inventory went too quickly. There was no quantity limit so many of them went to scalpers. People who didn't need or want a tablet were going out and buying them because they heard it was a great deal. I was on vacation and didn't even know there was a sale until all available stock was gone. Now the only options are to wait until HP has more and maybe land one, or give someone a $150 profit for being quick. I call that getting burned!

If I had to buy a tablet tomorrow, I would probably skip over the Touchpad at $250 since the app catalog is dismal and there's no promise it's going to get better.

But there are people paying that $250 on ebay I think. You know what though, I would like to find out actual numbers and prices selling on ebay. Is there a way to get that info?

Because what's left of the webOS base know there's no more Touchpads being made. Either you buy now or you don't get one.

You can do an advanced search on Ebay. Look for the completed listings check box.

I don't know if they could succeed in coming UP to a $500 tablet, but they could succeed (with Android, Amazon, etc.) in bring the iPad DOWN to a more level playing field. Look at the rumored "cheaper" iPhone4.

When Todd Bradley said HP may resurrect TouchPads he meant the spun-off entity that he intend to lead and not HP. Leo A. and his gang doesn't even want the whole consumer PC business, let alone the resurrection of TouchPads. If Leo A. has his power he would sell all of the webOS stuff to Samsung at a reasonable price which could be more than double of what HP paid to Palm. Now if webOS gets sold before Bradley could engineer a spin-off then it will be a defeat for Bradley, because he himself admitted without mobility tools the traditional PC business is not growing at all. Current era is for the mobile-computation ! And the market for the mobile computation is here to stay for a while. But if Bradley could spin-off the hardware entity from HP, then he could bring Jon Rubenstein to resurrect TPs and Pre-3 s ,and may even create new devices like webOS Ultra-lights etc. Lets see who wins ;)

Why not release the Pre 3 to North America then?

**** yeah!!!

No carriers want to support it?

I'm pretty sure Apotheker can't. OTOH, I'm pretty sure he's not long for the company, either. They're 5-10 years late to try and go the services route the way he wants, and his $10 billion mistake is making that clear before it even goes through. Now is NOT the time to destroy all your capital to try and play catch-up in yet another market. How about you work on building the ones you've already got? And that includes webOS!

HP couldn't keep the platform alive when it had a heartbeat, I don't see how they could bring it back from the dead.

It was dead a month ago, with no interest and few sales. Today, it is more alive than it has been since the the Pre minus launch day - a solid userbase and a ton of interest.

It was dead when HP was trying to keep it alive and it's thriving as they're trying to kill it off.

I'd just as soon have them keep trying to make it stay dead if this is what results.

Savvy to keep selling tablets for a loss with no ink cartidges to sell?

Apps will never be the ink for them as that app catalog will take a long time before it breaks even if ever.

Why would an app catalog not break even with the device selling at a loss and a lot of them in consumer's hands?

Digital downloads are very cheap and the margins are pretty close to infinite considering that they don't have to create the applications. It's almost like being Nasdaq, just making commissions on everyone buying and selling stock, just being an automated middle-man makes money.

HP isn't amazon...

What would be in your TP Lite version? Where would you cut costs?

I think you'd pretty much have to consider the current TouchPad the "lite" version and come out with a improved TouchPad 2 to rival the iPad 2 in that $299 range.

"rival the iPad 2"

???

I mean in terms of specs - lighter, thinner, and all that stuff.

There's no doubt that the TouchPad is physically similar to iPad 1. A TouchPad 2 would have to at least physically come close to the iPad 2 in being thin and light-weight. A TouchPad 2 could have a lot more things - perhaps a better chip from Qualcomm, perhaps a better resolution screen, but the TouchPad 2 has to come out with hardware that does what iPad 2 did for iPad 1.

Stop talking about the damn ipad. The Touchpad is never going to "rival" the ipad. That sort of talk and thinking is what f'd everything up to begin with.

And it's what makes talking about HP resurrecting the Touchpad sort of stupid as well.

I think you missed my context when I used the word "rival." missing. I was writing about how the TouchPad could come out with a TouchPad 2 with hardware that would rival iPad's hardware - in that it would be as thin and light.

You can go through the iPad 2's hardware here: http://www.precentral.net/how-much-does-touchpad-cost-hp-build and see how it's more advanced that what the TouchPad has.

A TouchPad 2 would need to close this gap (while keeping an eye towards what Apple has with its iPad 3). This is what I meant by "rival."

Finally, if you plan to sell tablets, you better be thinking about what you are going to do to compete with Apple. Otherwise, you are going to be out of business very quickly.

"Where would you cut costs?"

Remove touch to share considering the Pre 3 isn't being released in the US?

HP already had a lite version in the works. The TP Go/Opal with its 7in screen.

That actually seemed like the better version. Too bad..

I actually agree with Checkmate for the first time here. It was rumored to have the same dimension screen but more portable. That's good for those interested in ppi.

first time for everything :)

AHHHH DAMN YOU HP. STOP FOCUSING ON THE TOUCHPAD AND START FOCUSING ON PHONES!

never been a truer statement than this! If HP doesn't release another webos phone, many people will jump off their webos phone devices and start using other android and ios devices, losing momentum again.

Remember, apple succeeded by starting with success on the iphone.

Actually they started with the iPod.

][

If I were a carrier, I wouldn't go near a webOS phone a couple of weeks after the company said that they weren't going to make any new hardware. If I'm a carrier, I'm saying, "One story last week; another one this week; what am I going to get next week?"

TouchPads don't require carriers, so they are an easier part of the ecosystem to build.

I realize that you want phones. I want a new phone too. Just realize that it isn't going to happen unless another company buys or licenses the OS or the TouchPad gets around 20% of the market to show the carriers that there is a large potential market for webOS phones.

"Remember, apple succeeded by starting with success on the iphone."

Are you f'n serious?!? You don't really believe that, do you?

they have to realize that had they have released the Pre3 or any other phone to play nicely with the tablet, their sales would have been a bit better. I for one was holding out on buying until they released something able to work on sprint. why invest more into an ecosystem if i can't use the product 100%. however, with the $150 price point, how can i not buy in earlier than I'd like to.

i'm wondering though, if they do rez it, what would the price be? **** if they keep it the same, and if/when a new model came out, they could raise the price then after they get people hooked on the OS and get more devs on board.

Derek
Once again - I Love your reporting -

I would be markedly encouraged if HP kept the TP alive, However, and I said this before - I really don't Need a tablet (I do like my touch pad thought), I NEED a new phone, I WANT the Pre3.

How do we get HP to release the Pre3's that we know they have allready made?

March a million of your closest friends to the corporate headquarters of your carrier in matching webOS gear.

If you can accomplish that, I'm betting the carrier and HP will be able to reach an agreement to satisfy the demand.

Right now it doesn't seem like carriers believe there's enough demand and HP doesn't seem to want to risk a sales situation like the TouchPad launch when few people bought them.

The should launch the 64GB white version for $299 or $350. If they can take a hit and flood the market with WebOS, they would end up creating the ecosystem they were after. At some point the devices would become a premium and they could get back to a higher price (not the $599 and up price, but something that will make some money.

I think this fire sale proved one key thing - tablets are over priced. Folks have been paying a premium for Apple devices for several years. Today, they are the exception, but all other vendors should realize this is sell their tablets cheaper. Just like HP laptops, a lot cheaper than MacBook Pro and Air. HP IS the #1 PC maker in the world and they should continue to leverage that in the tablet.

They should also get Samsung or HTC to build the phones and a tablet, with agreements that the price point is set to move the devices.

They are not actually overpriced, if the BOM pricing is to believed. A product with a BOM cost of $300 really can't be sold for much less than $450-500 when taking into account R&D, marketing and fulfillment.

Now, you might believe that tablets cost too much for the average consumer, and you might be right.

But anyone who thinks people are paying Apple a "premium" (or at least that Apple started out that way -- they are very likely getting a premium NOW with their strategic buying of materials and volume pricing) is misguided.

Just like laptop components are more expensive than larger desktop components, tablet components are more expensive than laptop components.

I think the only thing the firesale proved was how stupid HP was. People wanted these at 99 to resell at a more obvious price. It was easy money knowing there would be demand and a limited supply.

Few wanted these for webOS.

Nooooo! HP had their chance and mucked it up royally! No one else could have done worse, Palm was immensely better.

Let someone else have a chance, Samsung knows how to make mobile hardware, they just need a great OS to go with it. Oh gosh, say it isn't so!

If they resurrect it they would have to upgrade something. They could make is a slightly thinner, put a non glossy back on it, add a rear camera. I don't think they would need to change much but it needs to be a little different and therefore could release it fairly soon since most of the internals would be the same.

Why? So you can look like a 'tard taking pictures with it?

I see you didn't get the memo

Resurrecting the TouchPad would be a mistake, it won't sell well above the firesale now and it wasn't actually very good hardware.

I think HP was actually right about killing webOS hardware development, Palm have consistently failed to meet deadlines, failed to engineer reliable hardware and been consistently behind the curve on tech specs. Where HP screwed up royally was in killing hardware development, they did it in the worst possible way with horrible PR which has hurt the platform.

I think HP has been very lucky that they have generated the sizable install base now, without that I can't see it appealing to potential licensees (or purchasers of the entire webOS GBU). HP publicly said they wouldn't put the money into webOS devices to make the platform competitive so why should anyone else think they can?

Disagree, hardware is OK, especially if you clock the CPU to 1.5 Ghz. Obviously as next generation that is compeditive with iPad 2 or 3 would be desired.

"wasn't actually very good hardware"? Is your name Calvin Klein?...I mean Marty McFly? :O

You speak as if you are from the future.

Last I heard (that would be today and over the last 1.5 weeks) folks are just now getting TouchPads and are becoming very enamored with webOS...or enameled...one of those...AND with how great the Touchpad is running.

My point is, lots of new TP owners are saying lots of good things about the hardware and webOS. Perfect, heck no...but good.

I speak of the TouchPad in the past tense because it has been discontinued, no time travel required.

The TouchPad is fat compared to most other tablets out there. People in the forums are reporting cracks by the speakers. The hardware is not very good.

I do love my TouchPad (32GB, bought on Canadian release date) but I didn't buy it because of the fantastic hardware, I bought it because of webOS.

A lot of people are saying good things about webOS and for $99 or $149 I would be very pleased with the hardware too (keep in mind the TouchPad is actually ~$300 hardware at which point it isn't great anymore).

HP said that they wouldn't put the money to make the platform competitive, but with the firesale, they've proven themselves wrong.

Sure it's not competitive yet, but it's not that far away and that's all on HP's money.

Someone else picking up webOS now would get the patents (which are arguably worth billions considering the Motorola deal) as well as able to leverage previous Palm and HP investments.

I can't run a marathon. However, if two people were to give me a ride of ten miles each, I could probably finish out the last 6.

Sounds like a good plan. Start production again at a higher price point, release them poorly, give them 6 weeks to take over Apple or stop production again, bail and have another fire sale (round 3?). I haven't got mine yet. I feel like we are being jerked around by HP and their new patent on indecision and lack of information. Do they even have a plan?

It seems like they have a plan, but every time they execute it something unexpected happens. They tried to create a good device and get it people's hands as quick as they could. (Some would say they failed on both accounts, others would say that they did the best they could considering the constraints they were under.)

The device didn't sell, so they lowered the price by $100. It still didn't sell. They decided that they can't risk spending millions in advertising to get this in the hands of people. So they throw up their hands and say, "We want nothing more of this. They are only $99 now. Get these things out of our sight!" that creates a frenzy of interest - the biggest thing that was causing HP to depart the business.

If you were HP, wouldn't it be best to re-evaluate the current status and at least think, "In a lot of ways, this fire-sale has solved our problem. We have new problems, like trying to get up to break-even profit margins, but we've got a lot of users, we've got a ton of free advertising from the news outlets. This is actually the best situation that webOS has ever been in."?

at this point I just have to believe he's messing with us

i wouldn't trust you with webOS as far as i could throw you, HP.

but if HP are the only option on the table for keeping webOS alive, i'll take it. but don't expect me not to grumble about HP! :)

"Resurrect" is most likely the byproduct. Why leave partially built or filled warehouses of current TPs and take 100% loss. The firesale pricing at least alleviate some pain. In addition, it gets webOS into more people's hands even if they don't stay with it, they now know what it is and it's potential. Seed for the future. A potential that should be enticing to Samsung (or whoever) to build the next webOS device.

I would agree - I don't see the HP folks as being savvy enough to take advantage of the Old/New Coke situation they've gotten themselves into. I'm hoping a way forward with a licensee or buyer can be announced soon. If HP could continue production in the meantime (any shape or form), that would be a bonus since any licensee probably won't have HW ready for 3-6 months (unless they already have Qualcomm based tablet HW with a 1024x768 resolution in testing).

I don't think HP has much credibility on any statement regarding their commitment to webOS HW at this point. If HP sold the Touchpad at $250/$300 (roughly half the cost of comparable iPads) resulting in a slight loss, they would probably be able to rack up some steady ongoing sales without spending too much on marketing, given all the recent free buzz. The other option would be for a licensee/buyer to purchase the rights to continue production of the Touchpad (and maybe Pre3) designs under their own brand until their own designs come online.

It's totally dreaming, but it would be amazing if Amazon released their new rumored tablets on webOS. As much sense at this would make strategically (moving away from a platform controlled by a competitor, Google, and to one that would leverage their website programming skills), there's no evidence that Amazon is doing any significant app development on webOS besides Kindle reader (and the maintenance mode MP3 store that is available for phones). Amazon definitely has a business model (the Gillette shaver/razor model) that could support taking a small loss on tablets indefinitely.

I only believe if Leo Apoetheker say something.

The rest... it's a rest.

Best Regards... B)

One of two things is happening here, IMO.

1) HP can't get the licensing or sales price they wanted for the PSG or

2) This demonstrates the lack of leadership at HP & the struggle w/in their walls on where to take this company.

I think #2 is more likely and IMO, they are a bit late to be trying to define themselves in the market place. They need to figure this out quickly or NO ONE will invest in them. They need someone who can communicate to the HP Team, the media, and the consumer. Certainly, Leo has failed at this as even the Senior & Executive VPs were caught by surprise, much less the consumer since there was and is no consistent message coming out of HP. AND they still are struggling to figure out what is next. As an investor, it gives me NO confidence. As a consumer & lover of webOS, it is just sad.

People wanted the TouchPad and WebOS; I saw tons of people eyeing it up at Best Buy and elsewhere. They just didn't want to pay this year's price for last year's hardware. It's as simple as that.

Of course, if you're going to sell a ton of low-margin hardware you have to find some other way to monetize the traffic. Apple does it with iTunes and the App Store, essentially taking a cut of the media traffic. Google sells advertising through Android. Sony stopped making CLIEs because they were more interested in their media properties and DRM. Shoot, even Microsoft basically lives on Windows and Office with everything else being a sideshow. HP has no such channel for monetization, though maybe somebody else does.

Although HP has always been lousy at marketing consumer products they make some of the best by-geeks-for-geeks products out there, and geek is a little more fashionable than it used to be. I think there is a place for the WebOS in a wide range of spaces along the lines of what they must originally have been thinking--make it the glue that makes a wide variety of things talk to each other: appliances, computers, consumer devices, entertainment devices, set-top boxes, GPSs, fitness stuff, you name it. It could be a fast-boot option for PCs that lets you at some basic functionality without loading in the whole system (remember the laptops that played CDs or had mini-displays in their outer covers?). Of couse, they'd have to fix WebOS so it actually boots quickly, the PalmOS was a true thing of beauty in that regard.

I *know* there's a way to make it work, I just have to think HP screwed the pooch. I still just cannot believe the recent turn of events. I still haven't figured out why I haven't marched down and picked up an iPhone and and iPad 2 yet, but I'm still waiting to see what happens...

I think there's too much being read into his statement. "could resurrect" and "may resurrect" are miles apart. One says it's certainly concievable but who knows, the other says it's been discussed.

Does anyone still put credible stock (pardon the reference) in anything HP says, intends, plans, aims, with webOS??

I love webOS as much as the next fan but c'mon. Stop following this confused, tech behemoth around while it tries to find its way out of the reeds. From my outsider, uniformed perspective, they seem to have no vision of where they're heading as a corporation, and those snippets of their vision-in-progress which they've shared, have sent their stock shares and image plummeting.

They don't know what to do with webOS. They grossly underestimated the time, energy and commitment it would take to make webOS a success, and now on the heels of their firesale surprise, they may be even more confused – trying to preserve the buzz generated by TP firesale, but still unwilling to commit proper resources to webOS.

The latest doc editing and OTA update are doubtless the completion of cycles set in motion before this PR and product disaster. The real question would be, have any new resources been assigned to webOS since this began? Probably not.

Personally, after the fire-sale pricing, I wouldn't pay more for a resurrected TouchPad. I would actually be insulted if HP turned around and started production on the TouchPad and priced it higher than $100.00 & $150.00. I would like to own one, and would like to experience webOS, especially to compare it to Android and iOS, but I refuse to give my money to a seller on eBay or Amazon who purchased 10+ units during the firesale so they could turn around and make a hefty profit; **** that. I saw someone selling a 16gb TouchPad on Craigslist for $300.00, with a cracked screen! Unbelievable.

If they do resurrected the Touchpad and improved it. I won't mind paying for it and selling my touchpad for $100.

I'm sure there's plenty of others that would do the same.

Dear Customer,

Thank you for your interest in the HP TouchPad and webOS. The overwhelming demand for this product in recent days has made it difficult to fulfill your request at the present time, and we are working to make more available as soon as possible. While we do not yet have specific details, we know it will be at least a few weeks before we have a limited quantity available again. We will keep you informed as we have more specifics that we can communicate, and we encourage you to join the conversation here for the latest information.

In light of this and other recent HP news, we want you to know that we remain committed to you. We will continue to honor our warranties now and in the future. We will continue delivering products that make a difference in your life and we will continue to provide the best possible service to you every day.

We are grateful for your patience and loyalty and to show our gratitude, we are offering you an exclusive one-time opportunity to save an additional amount on all of our products, valid through the end of the day tomorrow, Wednesday, August 31, 2011. You'll save 25% off all printers, ink, HP accessories, and PCs starting at or above $599. To take advantage of this offer, use your unique coupon code 2112413792 at checkout, and for more information on the details of this offer, please look at the bottom of this email.

Sincerely,

hpdirect.com

Just got that email as well. Looks like the touchpad is on hold for another fire sale.

Is HP trying to rethink this whole mess they have created?

Or just release the TouchPad Go at these price points. I would imagine with the smaller screen they're cheaper to make.

That's a good point. Touchpad Go (Opal) was supposedly in assurance testing (on target for Fall release) so it would be ready soon. In some ways it represents a Touchpad v1.5 since it was rumored to have the same resolution and processor but supposedly boasted a rear camera (and GPS? Can't remember). In theory, it wouldn't be high risk from a software perspective given the high degree of commonality with the current Touchpad.

The only way an HP resurrection of the TouchPad will work is:

No.1 Pricepoint down to $199 for 16GB & $299 for 32GB

No.2 Do a 'Six-Million Dollar Man' on Steve Austin and revamp the bejeebers outta the 1st-gen TouchPad, making it better, faster, stronger....

"Gentlemen, we can rebuild him..."

I agree 299 is worth it for the 32G especially with a hardware rebuild.

Also, what about this OS update that Engadget mentioned coming out today? Why no news here?

if psg is spun off, they will be a seperate company. No one in the psg wants anything to do with leo. They wold love to have palm. They would get back into mobile and pads

I saw an HP email in my inbox and got excited. I thought at first it was the notification that the TouchPad was available. Turns out - it was their attempt to capitalize on the TouchPad craze to sell computers and printers. Disappointed to say the least

Dear Customer,

Thank you for your interest in the HP TouchPad and webOS. The overwhelming demand for this product in recent days has made it difficult to fulfill your request at the present time, and we are working to make more available as soon as possible. While we do not yet have specific details, we know it will be at least a few weeks before we have a limited quantity available again. We will keep you informed as we have more specifics that we can communicate, and we encourage you to join the conversation here for the latest information.

In light of this and other recent HP news, we want you to know that we remain committed to you. We will continue to honor our warranties now and in the future. We will continue delivering products that make a difference in your life and we will continue to provide the best possible service to you every day.

We are grateful for your patience and loyalty and to show our gratitude, we are offering you an exclusive one-time opportunity to save an additional amount on all of our products, valid through the end of the day tomorrow, Wednesday, August 31, 2011. You'll save 25% off all printers, ink, HP accessories, and PCs starting at or above $599. To take advantage of this offer, use your unique coupon code 1048221854 at checkout, and for more information on the details of this offer, please look at the bottom of this email.

Sincerely,

hpdirect.com

The current webOS hardware was discontinued in order to get the failure out of the way for the new HP consumer hardware division. The last thing that this division needs is an underperforming flagship device. Think of it as an amputation. Cut off the disease before it infects the rest of the company.

That's why they didn't want these devices languishing in the bargain bin of all of those retailers for months on end. It would taint what is otherwise a profitable division for HP.

Can't wait to see HP half-heartedly give this another try...only to get squashed by the bazillion secondhand Touchpads out there brand new in boxes that they firesold at $99, and are now being resold on eBay and Craigslist at prices HP can't touch.

Gosh, which one will somebody with the least bit of interest in a cheap tablet choose? Hmmmm.

HP is the comedy gift that keeps on giving.

If they are REALLY planning on going this crazy route, here are my suggestions:

1. Fire Leo
2. Fire Leo
3. Fire Leo
4. Speed up WebOS
5. Built new TouchPad model with SD card reader, front and rear facing HD cameras, video editing software.
6. License WebOS and let others make hardware for it (phones, tablets, etc.)
7. Continue giving away app six packs
8. Throw money at major developers (We FINALLY got kindle, but still needs things like Netflix)
9. Stop worrying about the bottomline for the next 5 years. You'll be losing money. When you're this late in the game, you can't expect to gain market share and make profit at the same time. You have to take some heavy losses till you command a large enough market share
10. Work on compatible accessories such as Camera connection kit, TV out connectors, etc.

HP, simply let it go... Give webOS to someone more capable since you obviously weren't.
Especially not under Looney Leo.

More TouchPads on the Way by Mark_Budgell yesterday - last edited 8 minutes ago

I finally have some solid news to share about TouchPad availability.

Before I share, let me first say thank you for enthusiasm for this product. Since we announced the price drop, the number of inquiries about the product and the speed at which it disappeared from inventory has been stunning. I think it’s safe to say we were pleasantly surprised by the response.

Despite announcing an end to manufacturing webOS hardware, we have decided to produce one last run of TouchPads to meet unfulfilled demand. We don’t know exactly when these units will be available or how many we’ll get, and we can’t promise we’ll have enough for everyone. We do know that it will be at least a few weeks before you can purchase. See more information in the updated FAQs below.

And there it is..... More waiting.... Who would have predicted that?

Is HP that savvy?

No.

A columnist in the WSJ last Sunday gave a boatload of reasons. Don't depend on HP for much of anything.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405311190478740457653521158951433...

If the link doesn't work, google "H-P's One Year Plan".

Here is the blog info that is now offline

More TouchPads on the Way
by Administrator Mark_Budgell yesterday - last edited 18 minutes ago

I finally have some solid news to share about TouchPad availability.

Before I share, let me first say thank you for enthusiasm for this product. Since we announced the price drop, the number of inquiries about the product and the speed at which it disappeared from inventory has been stunning. I think it’s safe to say we were pleasantly surprised by the response.

Despite announcing an end to manufacturing webOS hardware, we have decided to produce one last run of TouchPads to meet unfulfilled demand. We don’t know exactly when these units will be available or how many we’ll get, and we can’t promise we’ll have enough for everyone. We do know that it will be at least a few weeks before you can purchase. See more information in the updated FAQs below.

Bryna (@BrynaatHP) and I (@MarkatHP) will update you here and on Twitter on the status of the new batch of systems. Please continue to share your thoughts and questions with us. Although we can’t respond to every one directly, we are sharing your feedback with teams inside HP.

Please note that many of the questions below address concern about orders previously placed on our HP Home & Home Office and HP Small & Medium Business online stores. It’s important to note that these are separate stores with slightly different procedures. We also know that we’re sparse on information about availability outside the US. We will share updates on regional availability as the information comes in.

preCentral, btw...

thanks for the last link to this great Leo Pic. I like it that much, even made a Background out of it (not for the Toucpad, but for my PC in the office. At least we are HP Partner, there). It really says it all.

And, after thinking again about that Samsung thing, I'd really like to see WebOS on my next TV.

HP touchpad is dead.. no one is going to want to pay for an item that was selling at $100 earlier.. but then again, they may get some traction with a 16gb $200-300 price range, but HP still would lose money..

what they need to do it sell the Pre3 at a sweet direct sale off contract price or with a contract make it free, it would fly off the shelves (since webos touchpad has gotten much needed hype and brand recognition) and then either step up their game for new devices (marketing, etc.) or sell webos off (no one is going to want to licenses it, since you already stated webos is dead)...

So in summary, release pre3 all carriers.. everywhere ASAP! and do it for a reasonable price.. and then look for buyers.. Samsung or someone will pick you up and the pre3 will give us suffice webos enthuiast until the new webos owners can make and release new hardware!!

I'll take 2 Pre 3s and 1 more 32MB TP please.

But this time include all the Prepare speedup plus xecutah so I can run Ubuntu apps in webOS "cards".

WebOS is a superb "touch" GUI for Linux systems... Just what the pads of the world need. Don't kill it; set it free (for a price) before it escapes into the wild (like Unix -> Linux -> Android etc).

Note: n2acards.com is now selling full blown Android OS for Color Nooks. Soon we will see someone selling Android for TP. What we NEED to see is someone selling webOS that way!

Ignore the opportunity, and soon someone from the Xdev community will write a webOS "shell" (GUI) for Android. All it will take is HP ignoring customer demand by over pricing or under fulfilling. I bet they'll **** up again... But now they are forewarned.

Hint: put "Preware" in your spelling checker so it quits substituting "Prepare" and making you look as foolish as I did in my prior post.

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What is that wallpaper used in the picture of the Touchpad of this article?

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