ChangeWave report shows Palm mindshare slipping, Android gaining 123
Tue, 05 Jan 2010 6:58 pm EST 
Looks like the pundits may have been right on this one, as the latest smartphone survey from ChangeWave shows that Android’s mindshare has surged in the last quarter, with 21% of potential customers eyeing Android as their future platform of choice. In September 2009’s survey, Android was tied at 6% with webOS. In the past three months, new releases like the Motorola Droid have catapulted Android’s mindshare over Palm, Windows Mobile, and BlackBerry, leaving only the iPhone in its sights.
So what about Palm? According to ChangeWave’s numbers, Palm’s potential buyers were cut in half to just 3% of respondents. Windows Mobile and iPhone also dropped, but their losses were 33% and 13% respectively.
The operative word here is "Ouch." We'll break down a few more numbers after the break.
What does this mean for Palm? For one, their CES presentation has to knock it out of the park. New carriers and an evolution to webOS won’t be enough to recapture significant mindshare, let alone marketshare. And in the face of expanding Android sales, Palm’s marketshare has also slipped, from 6% to 5%. Granted, Palm continues to sell phones, but they’re clearly being handily outsold by just about everybody else.
While it is worth noting that Palm OS numbers are factored into the results, presumably the only place where that has a significant impact is on Palm’s overall owner satisfaction ratings, where 33% of owners reported being “very satisfied.” ChangeWave recognized this and broke down Palm’s numbers by OS, with webOS scoring a 58% very satisfied rating, while Palm OS scored 29% (which is still higher that Windows Mobile’s score). According to ChangeWave, “the vast majority of Palm owners still use the older Palm OS.” We’re not sure whether to be surprised or not, but that does seem to indicate that Palm has made some headway in the expanding into new markets goal.
On the side of the competition, iPhone and Android owners scored 77% and 72%. While all three are more or less tied on the user interface front, this just reaffirms the position that apps are becoming more and more important to the end user.
123 Comments
Doesn't surprise me one bit, what with the "Android Army" being unleashed on multiple carriers. Palm needs to up the ante, and I'm not talking about more creepy ads. They need to totally scrap that ad campaign and start over.
What I see is the Droid ads got people's attention. The Pre ads had a certain Zen quality to them. Not sure if Zen's use smartphones though. The Pixi ads had life, no meditation and self reflection needed to make a call or send an email. IMO, the Pre creepy commercials sold no phones, maybe scared a few people away. Palm loyalists and anti-Apples got Pre off the ground.
What is surprising, BB showing an uptick and Iphone showing a marked decline. The superhuman numbers Android got, make the whole thing seem a bit fishy. But all these surveys usually have a defined slant, so take them with a grain of salt.
EXACTLY! I wonder if the person responsible for Pre Marketing is a double agent. What was that Pre ad?! If it was meant to scare children, and weird out adults: mission accomplished.
To top it off, Sprint makes some of the worst ads. Usually drab and boring, unlike Verizon, ATT. Atleast the recent Sprint ads are a bit lively.
Sprint: You dont have to use only black and yellow in your ads just becoz thats your logo colors.
@Palm: PLEASE MARKET BETTER!
@Derek and Precentral: save the Pre! Please send Rubenstein a letter requesting him to liven up the Pre marketting. Show what it can do and why it would be fun for pple to use it!
I heard Sprint got an award for those ads.
Sprint's ads were fantastic. Imaginative and eye catching - the way an ad should be. They even showed off the Pre's features. They more than made up for the Palm ad's imo
Maybe so. I agree that Sprint has picked up their game recently. But I dont think the Pre has been showcased well enough. For instance (like one poster says below) the genius and usefulness of the card view & the gesture area needs to be shown better and in an eye-catching package.
ATT and Verizon are going at it presently, trying to showcase explicitly what their network/phones can do. Not saying that Pre should get into a phone war. But it needs a more agressive ad campaign, like the Droid has/had. Those ads were cool,they stick with you, and make you wanna buy that phone. Pre needs similar stuff. Mind you, I write this as a Pre and WebOS lover. I want Pre to kick ass :)
Imaginative and eye catching maybe, but still not good. If you didn't know it was an ad for the Pre, would have known what they were selling?
Motorola did it right, they put the features and phone front and center with the iDon't ads.
The early Pre ads told you nothing about the phone and placed the focus on the add looking woman in the add, not the great looking phone.
I would argue that as advertising goes, the ads sucked. They were form over function ads and Palm doesn't have the luxury of being able to have vague and artsy ads.
The current crop are far superior, if less visually beautiful.
Yeah, the Pixi ad was definitely a step in the right direction. It had snap and life to it. A shame they weren't persistent with that track.
I heard that Android got a $100 million advertising budget for the quarter. $100 million can buy a lot of mind share.
Just goes to show that you have to spend money to make money!
Palm needs to show off the gesture bar more.. make fun of iphones. tap tap click tap tap click etc..
The gesture bar is genius and card view.. those are the 2 things palm has over everyone.. they need to focus on that..
also they need to stop whatever they are doing and unlock and implement the voice recording, so all the brilliant developers can get cracking on voice apps, like voice recording, voice texting, voice email, voice directions, etc.. (if possible)
This is really old news :(
I'm confused. The color labels says that orange is December and blue is September. So Palm has GAINED 3% and not lost them. But this graphic also has a big fat typo in the headline so maybe it's just a bad info source :-)
@Derek Kessler
According to the article the legend colors are inverted.
we need cool commercial that show off what we can do. Showing that we can do all that fancy stuff as well!
it pisses me off that we aren't getting credit!!!!!!
here here... Maybe after CES Palm's big new "newness" will catch mainstream attention and the Pre and WebOS will take off!
we need cool commercial that show off what we can do. Showing that we can do all that fancy stuff as well!
it pisses me off that we aren't getting credit!!!!!!
Let's see: 33% overall Palm owners very satisfied. 58% for WebOS, 29% for old PalmOS. WM still lower.
That would imply that there are at least 6x as many Palm OS+WM phones as WebOS ones. Basically you can solve a simple equation ad deduce at most 14% of Palm users are using WebOS devices.
Sorry about the chart - fixed.
How about "Platofrm"? Was that a photoshopped text addition or a mistake on the real chart?
...I don't know how much weight a chart can hold when it has typos like that from a major company... For you, Derek, I think we're willing to forgive. :)
That's me. I rebuilt the chart and seem to have not been paying attention as I did it.
Advertising.... sure the CES presentation will help, but only geeks give a damn about CES.
The reason that Android has captured mindshare is largely due to the Droid. Think about the advertising blitz that the Droid has had, they made it cool, hip, and dangerous.
Android had stealth fighters blowing up towns with a phone you didn't really even get to see... but that makes people WANT to see it even more.
We had a mentally unsound albino woman whisper about jugglers and things that had nothing to do with the phone, it might as well have been a commercial for Tampax.
We need more presence, in a BIG way, and that can ONLY happen through the power of advertising.
The Droid attention brought Sprint users to Google Apps... I hear this constantly, and Sprint currently offers 2 Google phones, and according to the local Sprint store and local Best Buy stores, The HTC Hero is currently their Number 1 seller and the Moment is Number 2 for them. Pre and Pixi sales are almost non-existent any longer.
Not good news for WebOS. Beating Apple to the punch with a smart pad would have been a big boost for WebOS, but that would have meant good planning on Palm's part, and not achievable by their history. Always a day late and a dollar short! It's sad!
Palm's ads weren't all bad. A couple were excellent. A couple really bad. About 50/50. The real problem was that they were more like pre-release ads than post. Wonderful sense of mystery in them, which is great for building anticipation. Now we need to create desire for the phones.
I don't really know that I agree with the 50/50 Bad/Excellent mix. I do like the Pixi commercial much much more than any of the Pre's commercials. I also can't include the Sprint/Pre commercials in the mix, because as much as I'm a fan of Sprint I feel like those commercials were lacking in the actual advertising of the phone. Sure it was in there, but the reality is that the Pre has to be a phone that has its own identity separate from the carrier. If you look at all the other brands out there, for the most part, they have established themselves as a brand (Android/Iphone/RIM) Pre needs to be more than Sprint's amazing phone.
The point of the matter is, I feel, personally, that the ad's that have been pushed out by Verizon/Motorola for the Droid have shocked people into paying attention to an entire platform, not just a phone.
Palm is being modest about the phone in the commercials they've launched, they need a much stronger advertising blitz to get the mindshare back, this will create that desire that you mentioned. Because in the end, desire is fueled by a persons perceived value, weather it be fashion or usability.
Read: Gotta make people WANT this smooth river stone!! :)
As far as WebOS on Sprint is concerned, I assume that since Google Apps are most desirable, the hit is due to the release of the HTC Hero for those who want an iPhone feel and the Samsung Moment for those who want a QWERTY Keyboard.
Well. No surprise mindshare has slipped for Palm. A lot has to do with lousy marketing. Not only were the commercials not that great, but they didn't get much exposure either (which may be because they weren't that good).
Meanwhile, the Droid got so much buzz and heavy marketing. Plus, many users have a blurred understanding of the difference between the Droid and Android OS... which actually works out in well when you're talking about mindshare.
If Palm continues to slip, it won't be because of lousy marketing.
A lot has to do with lousy marketing.
Palm has marketing?
Oh yeah. Read my whole statement. And that last sentence was supposed to say:
"If palm continues to slip, I HOPE it's not because of marketing."
My meaning being that it would be shame to see a company with excellent products go under just because they didn't know how to talk about it in a way that gets people excited. Whereas if their product in the long run ends up being lousy and they can't get it right, well, how long can they really sustain themselves.
Well this is like beating a dead horse. We know the android market is growing. They have released I don't know how many phones? We only have the Pre and the Pixi. Its great that Verizon is going to get the phones to help expand Palm market share. I am praying that Sprint will get the Pre Plus or Pre 3.
I love my phone...but I wish it had flash and more premium apps. I love how the app store has expanded, but we need larger companies and more useful apps.
And PLEASE...this is 2010, have better commercials. I think thats what did us in. I love the Pixi one though, it was cooler than the Pre's.
Curious, which big companies and which apps do you want to see on webOS?
How about Chase Bank and ESPN Sports Zone for starters? Both are on my iPod Touch and are very handy to have.
To be fair, unless they're a geek, nobody - NOBODY - knows what Android is. Every time I mention it, I get the reply, "Oh, you mean the DROID on Verizon?"
So, Android has become the Droid handset. That doesn't mean anyone cares about the myTouch or Hero.
We'll know after a few months on VZW how these numbers reflect people's purchasing decisions. Until then, it's fluff.
Interesting. For me it was the other way around. I thought "Droid" was just a short name for the "Android" OS. Didn't know that this is a phone. :-)
Yep. Mindshare only matters to those who have it when their contract is up. Most people don't think about another phone until they know they can.
Mindshare matters a lot before hand as well... it helps a person when making the decision by creating desire and awareness.
Without that, why WOULD a person switch from they're carrier?
Choice?? What choice? The product is just on Sprint in the states while droid is everywhere. Lets look at this whenever palm gets on ATT and Verizon.
"The product" do you mean Pre? That is in Canada, Mexico, Europe, etc.
On the flip side, what happens if the Droid finds it's way to Sprint.
I have become a fan of Sprint (although I miss being able to talk and surf at the same time on AT&T) and I like my Pre. But I might seriously consider switching to the Droid if it was available on Sprint.
Big screen, expandable memory, better multimedia capablility, 200x the apps. It would be very very tempting.
Palm needs to close the gap on the areas it controls (video recording, better calendar, proper note synchronisation)and do what it can to speed some of the areas it doesn't (i.e. Flash).
Android has 200,000 apps? :P
Sorry, 20x. Good catch. Still 19,000 more apps is a big lead.
On the side of the competition, iPhone and Android owners scored 77% and 72%. While all three are more or less tied on the user interface front, this just reaffirms the position that apps are becoming more and more important to the end user.
BINGO
I really like my phone, and I think that the OS is just as easy to use as iPhone OS (my wife has an iPhone 3G). But it's all about what you can do with the phone, and right now iPhone and Andoid users can do a boatload more with their phones than we can.
Kudos to Palm for getting to 1,000 apps quickly. But they need to keep the accelerator on the floor and do whatever they can to encourage developers to design for the device. Personally I would like to see them ID a few key apps (visual voicemail springs to mind) and offer a nice payment in exchange for the app.
this is the dumbest survey analysis ever.....besides apple all the other phones are on more than one network in the USA...all are complete phones with their OS out there for more than 2 years . Palm is not a complete phone yet!!! try selling the phone with the flaws it had back in june july aug sept oct nov .....we are finally hitting our stride with the dec 28th os 1.3.5 update. That was the turning point....we are on par!!! all the negative reviews are dismissed!! keep your heads up and spread the word.
As the phone becomes more complete, interest wanes. And your number of networks concern is invalidated by you telling us to ignore the champion.
Rethink and repost please.
I agree, how can one compare the Pre (7 months old) to the Iphone at what 4 years. And, not to mention, the Pre handles itself pretty well in comparison. Palm is just not a household name like Apple. The 1.3.5.1 update makes the Pre pretty awesome in my estimation. This phone is a beast now! Oftentimes, I am listening to Pandora on stereo bluetooth while surfing the net and answering text messages and emails and answering the phone simultaneously! I get a little lag, but it's bareable considering all the stuff I'm doing. If Palm/Sprint want to really revitalize the Pre, they need to bring mainstream tethering to it at a fraction of the cost that folks would pay to carry the internet on their laptops. I know there are hacks, but I don't necessarily believe that you should allow everyone to pull boatloads of data for free! However, I also don't believe that the company should charge mainstream rates for tethering as it does not work quite as well as a dedicated data/internet service. Next, bring expandable memory to this phone and a killer battery that can last one day with really heavy use. I would not want the form factor to change much if at alll. I love the size and feel and shape of the phone. Just make it feel more professional and durable as a slider!
I love the Pre and reallly hope it survives!
I hate having to re-iterate this point... but, here it goes: If you release a phone 4 years after another platform/device, then your 1.0 HAS to be able to hang with that company's 3.0/4.0 device or you will die.
How can one compare a 7month old phone to a 4year old phone? Thats the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard... of course you compare them, because the benchmark that has been set, was set 4 years ago... if you can't measure up to that benchmark 4 YEARS LATER, then you can't hope to survive. 4 more years of development time and 4 more years to build on the ideas of your competitors, to see what they did right and wrong, to see what you can do better.
I love Palm and the Pre to death, and with 1.3.5 I'm now revitalized with hope that this phone has had what it takes to win all along, and hopefully we'll see more after Jan. 7th when Rubinstein tells us what the future holds for this company and our beloved phone.
The point is, don't let a company off the hook for anything, this is YOUR phone and in the end you are the person that is paying them for the product you receive. I for one demand that it be able to compete, and after 1.3.5, I truly TRULY think the Pre/WebOS can.
I can agree that a 1.0 platform needs to compete with a 4.0 platform, but I don't believe that it needs to be on par. WebOs brought some new tools to the game and if your statement is true, then the Iphone should have already had multitasking when WebOs hit. But, it didnt . And, what Palm did with the Pre was bring it in on par with the Iphone in many areas. The Iphone didn't have MMS Or videorecording when the Pre hit. However, the main difference between a 1.0 platform and a 4.0 platform is the smoothing out and streamlining the OS. But, if you say that Palm needs to be on par, then you are also saying that they needed to have 50000 apps ready to go when the Pre hit the market right? In fact, on par is a pretty broad term when there are so many different user tastes that a company could cater to. In actuality, where Palm screwed up was by trying to be on par with Apple and leaving behind things that made them famous. But, can you blame them? The Iphone was selling like hotcakes and was a pretty basic PIMless phone when the Pre hit. People loved the UI of the Iphone and Palm one upped them with multitasking and gestures.
being on par is just not a true statement. What a new phone needs to do is bring something NEW that people think is hip and cool. And, people in general didn't give a shit about PIM apps when the Iphone hit the market. The Iphone was not on par even with the treo 755p when it first came out, but it sold because it was cool and NEW! On par meant NADA!
And FIXXX, I know you didn't use the word "on par," but "hang with" means the same thing as on par, IMHO!
I have to give credit to Palm for making it this far in such an up-hill battle! I think Palm needs to make a few changes though in order to succeed:
1) Get the apps/features that people want then ADVERTISE THEM! Things like video recording, Visual VoiceMail, and a fully-functional and integrated Facebook App would be a good start.
2) Optimize for speed. The Pre has a killer processor AND GPU but the interface (calendar!) is painfully slow.
3) Work to get more developers. The long review process, limited SDK, no real means to secure our code (no bit-code!)... these things are definitely not winning over any advanced developers with this (thus the reason we see so many so-so apps in the catalog)! In addition, I think Palm is hurting themselves with the 30% cut from app sales. Apple and Android might be able to get away with it since they have an ESTABLISHED platform and customer base but Palm can't! Developers are not going to want to put loads of time into a platform with a small customer base when, for the same price, they can do so in a more popular platform.
4) Release a developer phone.
5) Level the hardware playing field. People like touch, candybar, and slider phones so why only have a flagship phone of one type?
In my opinion, webOS has features and a UI that is far superior to the competition but through taking too long to release the Pre and the lack of advertising they have let other platforms steel customers away from them and even copy their ideas.
Great points, all!
Especially the ones about apps people really want, and their advertising.
A few apps that'd be great: Airline-website apps, google-search app (I know its basic), amazon, IMDB (flixter is great, but still), native facebook (a must I feel)
I agree that by keeping limited hardware to just Pre and Pixi, Palm is limiting the market to the people to whom the Pre(+Pixi) appeals in its present form.
For instance, even tho I love the Pre, it'd be nice to have a larger screen, while keeping the qwerty keyboard.
@WhoAmI - speed improved a whole lot for me in 1.3.5 update. esp calendar.
I'd be interested to hear which apps people think are a glaring void on the Pre.
To be honest, I really can't think of much more that I would want my Pre to do that it can't do already - other than play additional video formats without conversion (like being able to use the mplayer application somehow).
(Note: I get almost all my apps through homebrew, with a few of the free apps from the App Store sprinkled in. I've yet to spend a cent on any paid apps.)
Thoughts?
For me it's not so much the lack of apps but the lack of features/speed. I greatly miss features from DateBK6 on my Treo such as the advanced alarms, floating events/tasks, task integration, Agenda, and very quick methods of adding complex events. It's as if Palm took a huge step back in the very PIM features that they used to be known for!
How about Docs2Go? Or any way to open, edit, save and send documents, spreadsheets and presentations?
How about other common office/road-warrior apps that are available for other platforms, but not WebOS - i.e., Quickbooks, Act! & Maximizer, etc.
How about the dozens of municipalities and media outlets (i.e., CNN, others) that have released apps for accessing their services for iPhone and Blackberry only?
My firm writes applications for the public safety arena: police, fire, ambulance and disaster response. They are all written for Java. Palm doesn't support Java (yet?), so they're not available for the Pre or Pixie. I don't care how easy-to-use Ares is, I can't justify spending even a few weeks of effort to re-write apps (that are working perfectly well on multiple phones under Java) AND double my maintenance and support costs for a platform that (currently) represents such a tiny increment over the huge field of phones that support Java.
Apps I'd like to have:
Record and Send Video Clips over SMS - This is a killer app for me. I have have the homebrew Precorder app and the attach video to messages patch, but because of no support for the format used to transmit video over MMS it is not possible to send these clips to my family members that are still using feature phones (no email on phone).
Shazaam App - hold your phone up to some music playing and this app identifies the song. Even some dumb phones have this app.
SlingPlayer Mobile - I own two slingboxes which basically make your cable tv box/dvr available over the internet. I was able to get this app on my Treo700w, but it is not available yet.
Augmented Reality App - I think these types of apps are really cool and would love to have one for the novelty of it as much as the utility.
Ditto on the Video and Shazaam... I don't own a SlingPlayer but I imagine that it would be useful for those that do. Augmented reality... sure... why the hell not, I'm down with cool for the sake of cool ;)
Bank apps plus ESPN Sports Zone.
I want Shazam and a decent game, for starters.
im in print media. up here in canada, Bell put on a bunch of very good ads,, that engaged the viewer on the tube. the problem, they got tired fast.
i compare the marketing of this phone to the roll out of the actual Web os, plus its updates. Too damn slow, Too damn quiet.
sorry, but what is needed here is a major announcement, tied with a huge, let me restate this HUGE, ad blitz, print and broadcast. flash needs to appear, as well as a lot of other functions that are stock on 3 year old phones. do not get me wrong here, i love my phone, but i tire of waiting months for the basics. CES is a natural for it. the day Palm does their little show, should be the day that the blitz starts.
its gotta be loud and proud palm.
After the 1.3 update (I believe) borked my phone, I gotta admit, I was looking at Android, and still think it might be my next phone. I love my pre, and the most recent updates really added some needed speed and fixed all my card error notifications, which was great. Keep up that good work, but Apple has clearly proven apps are important to users, and a way to entice developers to develop for the pre is something palm needs to invest in. And not just developers developers developers! and people that create tons of meh apps, but folks who create solid beautifully designed applications.
I love my Mac's applications because they are well developed and easy and fun to use. There may be less of them than for Windows, but the overall quality is better. Palm needs overall quality apps.
I got to play with the Android...its NOT all that. It is clunky and not nearly as easy to handle on the software side as the Pre. Yes it has more apps...but if you are patient, so will Palm. Its all about patience. you would be dissapointed by the Android...and end up missing your Pre as it develops and gets better...I guarentee it.
I don't mind being patient and I plan on it. I do think WebOS is more polished. My concern is that it's not catching on. That could mean no future development. Time will tell, but I also just like to experiment with things, so out of curiosity, Android seems like something to check out.
I second that. I will adopt a wait and see attitude. Nothing multi-tasks like this thing...NOTHING. We will see on the 7th.
If they got no game I may switch phones.
You only get to be the new phone that people talk about once. Look at the Blackberry Storm 2. It's getting pretty good reviews but there's absolutely no buzz about it. That's what Palm is in for unless they surprise everyone with a new device. As for developers, 3% mindshare isn't enough to justify a significant investment time and effort in a platform.
I couldn't agree more!
The bigger problem is this poll is VERY skewed.
They asked just over 4000 folks from the US. 4000 out of 308,xxx,xxx folks barely makes a statistic.
What demographic... Geeks? AT&T customers? Google users?
By the way the article was written and focused, this survey was VERY LIKELY sponsored by Google.
And if it was, then obviously the results will be skewed in their favor.
Take a statistics class. Hurry..
You can make accurate assessments of a 4k sample size, but only if the sample is representative. That is what the previous poster was saying. I have taken a statistics class. A few in fact.
You Fan Boys talk about the Pre like paid propagandist defending its HUGE shortcomings right out of the box. The unforgivable limitations (no video, alarms in your ear, no voice record, no back up of call logs or txt, no sync to computer out of box, this idiotic cloud concept forced on you, exchange problems over and over), the horrible build quality the total lack of apps but yet an app centric phone, the in your face marketing about how much better it does this and that and then not delivering... The list goes on...
Horrible build quality, the phone rattles when you use it (oreo)! The cracks, the dumb usb door, and the just as shoddy cases from Seidio, those horrible tabs and the flawed clip holster that snaps after a month of normal use.
All of these negative things orbited around my phone, and when anyone asked me what I thought of my Pre I was honest. It sucks, don't buy it. But I have nothing against the Pixi, which came too little too late... My negative reaction to the Build Quality of the Pre already did its job... I had such high hopes after owning so many other Palm products...
You can't release products like this folks, no matter how many loyal Fan Boys you have...This phone is a text book example of how to over promise and under deliver. Yes, I hate the fact that it is an epic failure.
The numbers don't lie...
Somebody give palmparcha a cookie so the adults can talk. But check the cookie for cracks and no less than 13 chocolate chips, or we'll never here the end of that either.
Dumbass.....Lets call a spade a spade!!! Is the phone in JUne the same as the phone right now JAN 5??? If your answer is yes then do me a f**king favor and stop with the BS and go see a doc. If you dont see the progression then return your phone and bitch somewhere else. WE know palm made a mistake launching OS to early. LEt me ask you this is the Android OS the same as it was when it first launched? No and as it improved it increased traction......Palm will be next.....How the f**k are you going to sell a phone that are missing features and bad reviews. Now as of Dec28th what negative review will you have?? So do me a favor and use some logic....this is a bs survey!!!!
Yes dumb-ass the phone is EXACTLY the same Goddamn phone in hardware! Just because they fix a few things doesn't mean the hardware problems changed! When the iPhone and iTouch came out they had serious software problems, but the hardware was SOLID! SOLID! The next hardware release they improved by I still own a GEN 1 iTouch and it is SOLID.
You have no respect for money, simply an irresponsible consumer. If you are the future of American consumerism, we're all fu**kd.
You admit their mistakes and you defend them? You should get your head checked!
You continue to live in that bubble son, and you'll get ripped off through out your entire life. Grow some balls and realize when you're being ripped off so you can better shape the companies that provide products for us all...
ARe you really that f**king dumb??? I admit their mistakes and believe in their future you idiot!!!! IF you hate them so much y the screen name!!! You miserable f**K!!! The software platform is more important than hardware. Hardware can be altered. Hard to get people to like your software and now that these bugs have been fixed or improved look at the forums. It has been silenced except for some more apps, gaming ......idiot
i feel you forget the pre unless a pre2 come out and feel like a powerful phone this shit feel like a toy if you feel the other phones like the DROID AND THE IPHONE you're be ilke damn this is for my lil sister come on palm what the fuck and they ceo saying no new phones they like what they got well if a new pre don't come out say bye bye palm and hello apple or android if they couldn't do it then they can't do it now so hello iphone 4G
iPhone 4 G. Maybe on the Sprint network. ATT cant even get there 3G network up to par. Sprint is the only one with any 4G in 2010. Maybe they will release the iPhone 3GSH**
Hell, why not, I'm bored? Point-for-point, as unbiased as I can be:
> You Fan Boys talk about the Pre like paid propagandist
> defending its HUGE shortcomings right out of the box.
Agreed, some people defend everything. Then again, that's EXACTLY what fans of something do! Metallica's latest album not as good as in the past? Fans still love it. Latest Mac OS release has some silly bugs? No problem, fans still defend it. That's the way it goes with fans, as it should be.
> The unforgivable limitations
> no video
I frankly agree. Very hard to tell people I can't record video yet (without homebrew, which honestly isn't for everyone) on my latest-and-greatest while they're POS $45 candybar can.
> alarms in your ear
Yeah, granted, kind of a silly mistake. But, now you're talking about an honest mistake I think... someone simply screwed up. Kind of surprised it isn't fixed yet, but I'd expect it to be soon, so I'm inclined to not go nuts about this.
> no voice record
Yeah, I miss this one too, maybe more than anything else from my previous smartphones. But, OTOH, it's not something that everyone needs and uses... in fact, I suspect most who have this capability now don't use it. So, yeah, *I* definitely want it yesterday, but if something had to be cut for some reason, this one seems OK to me.
> no back up of call logs or txt
I don't think this is a big deal frankly. It's a nice to have for sure, but I wouldn't hold this up as a serious shortcoming.
> no sync to computer out of box
Hmm, yeah, would have liked to see that myself. But again, is it a huge shortcoming? I don't think so. Just because other devices do it doesn't make it good, or necessary. Again, *I* would like this, but more than a nice to have? I don't think so... especially given:
> this idiotic cloud concept forced on you
You call it idiotic, many of us call it the inevitable future. It's only idiotic when it fails! Otherwise, the fact that I was able to DR my phone the other night and within a half hour have nearly everything restored automatically (in fact, *everything* I care about personally) is a HUGE deal. In fact, I'd go so far as to say the fact that other devices can't do this is a *MAJOR* advantage for Palm... too bad they aren't advertising things like this better. So idiotic? Not by a long shot IMO.
> exchange problems over and over
No real knowledge personally, so no comment.
> the horrible build quality
Some have had issues, yes, but many of us have very solid devices. My wife's phone and mine have both taken serious tumbles and are no worse for wear. The only thing I'll admit is I do wish the slider mechanism was smoother. But that's about it.
> the total lack of apps but yet an app centric phone
Well, first, I'm not sure I'd at all agree that it's an "app centric phone"... in fact, it's specifically CLOUD-CENTRIC. Now, having said that, it's I think true that over time we're getting more app-centric... but is it fair to say there's a "total lack of apps"? NO!
There's over 1000 apps... yes, before you say it, a lot of them are crap. Then again, a lot of the apps in any other smartphone stores are crap too. There's a lot of good, solid, useful apps too, and more coming every day. To say there's no apps is entirely unfair.
Plus too, don't forget that webOS gives you a very good Internet experience, and there's tons of online apps for you to use.
So sure, I agree, we want more apps and we need some top-notch development houses to deliver some of the more robust apps many of us would like to see, but to have gotten to 1000 apps in about half a year is in my estimation, quite good compared to the competition.
> the in your face marketing about how much better it does
> this and that and then not delivering
Completely your opinion. I personally think they've delivered on probably 3/4 of what they claim is better... anyone who doesn't like Synergy is nuts. Anyone that doesn't like the ability to be online all the time is nuts. They haven't executed perfectly to be sure, but you're going way too far.
> ... The list goes on...
Does it now? Please tell.
> Horrible build quality, the phone rattles when you use it
> (oreo)!
Mine does not. I realize some do. Clearly they're not 100% on build quality. But "horrible"? No, that seems very unfair.
> The cracks
Again, a minority experience this.
> the dumb usb door
Agreed, not a fan of that either.
> and the just as shoddy cases from Seidio
You're blaming Palm for a third-party vendor? Hrm.
> those horrible tabs and the flawed clip holster that snaps
> after a month of normal use.
Hrm. Unless Palm owns Seidio, not their fault.
> All of these negative things orbited around my phone, and
> when anyone asked me what I thought of my Pre I was honest.
> It sucks, don't buy it.
Perfectly fine. They asked for your opinion, you gave it. Cool. I don't think you did them a service if you simply said "it sucks, don't buy it", but I wasn't there.
> But I have nothing against the Pixi, which came too little
> too late...
Interesting... so does the Pixi not suffer from all the webOS issues you talked about earlier? Maybe your hardware issues are null and void with the Pixi, but if you're saying you have nothing against the Pixi, that seems to imply you have no software issues either, which contradicts much of your earlier points.
Which is it?
> My negative reaction to the Build Quality of the Pre
> already did its job... I had such high hopes after owning
> so many other Palm products...
If that was your personal experience then I totally understand. But don't extrapolate all sorts of problems for everyone from your own experience. I can tell you my experience has been nothing like yours, and I suspect many others can say the same.
> You can't release products like this folks, no matter how
> many loyal Fan Boys you have...This phone is a text book
> example of how to over promise and under deliver. Yes, I
> hate the fact that it is an epic failure.
Little bit of personal history: I've never before owned a Palm device. In fact, years ago I had a number of chances to do so and passed on them every time because they seemed inferior and I just didn't think Palm produced very good products. I don't know if I was wrong back then, but that was my take on things. The point: I am most definitely NOT a Palm fanboy, not by a longshot.
To say the Pre, Pixi or webOS is an "epic failure" is just blatantly ridiculous.
First, you certainly can't judge webOS itself yet, it's far too early to say either way, but if you were to go down that road than I think you'd honestly see more positive signs than negative. Second, you're tossing out a lot of dubious claims about the Pre hardware... some of it is certainly true in general, and some of it may be true specifically for you. But there's no way in hell you could categorize it as an epic fail. At least, not yet.
You talk about fanboys, but you're clearly the exact opposite: someone who it going to poo-poo what Palm is doing regardless of reality. Couldn't be more obvious.
> The numbers don't lie...
Which numbers? There are some that, I agree, aren't very encouraging for Palm, but then there are others than shed a more positive light on things.
In short: you're not totally wrong about everything, and some of it is opinion, which is fine, but you're clearly going way too far on some points and drawing conclusions way too early in a product lifecycle. There's already been huge improvements in all things Pre/webOS over the past six months... tell you what... let's have this discussion again after CES and see where things stand then.
+1...good response!
And your point is?
I'll be right here after CES, like I was after the last CES. Waiting with baited breath to read all the chatter about how all will be fixed by Palm. You don't seem to understand that the Pre was supposed to be a "killer palm product" and it didn't deliver. In the context of PALM inc. the PRE is an EPIC failure.
I'll continue to read long winded posts by simple people like me telling it like it is, by the way on a post by Precentral which was totally NEGATIVE news about our Pre. I posted a somewhat NEGATIVE comment for a negative post, which in my opinion is totally fitting. Sorry to pee on your parade, fan boy.
> "And your point is?"
Well, I thought I had made that abundantly clear before, but keep reading...
> "I'll be right here after CES, like I was after the last
> CES. Waiting with baited breath to read all the chatter
> about how all will be fixed by Palm."
You won't hear that from me, unless they announce something truly revolutionary. In fact, I expect some announcements that I'm not entirely on board with.
Will you be right? Depends on what you think you're right about... will they solve all their ills in one day? You're right, probably not. Will they dominate all the competition in one fell swoop? You're right, probably not.
Will they have some fairly exciting things to show the world? We'll both have to wait and see now, won't we?
> "You don't seem to
> understand that the Pre was supposed to be a "killer palm
> product" and it didn't deliver. In the context of PALM inc.
> the PRE is an EPIC failure."
Depends on how you define "killer palm product" I suppose. I'm not sure I recall anyone (at Palm) say that the Pre was supposed to knock all other competitions down to the bottom. Did it and webOS effectively save the company (if you believe it needed saving)? Too early to say for sure.
Is this Palm's best product to date? MANY would say yes, including me (more to the point: it's the first Palm product I've ever wanted to own). In that regard, there's no way in hell you can proclaim it a failure.
And none of this even takes into account the long view. Palm seems to have a strategy for webOS in mind and they are executing on it over time... whether it's a winning strategy or not, none of us can say right now, and if you think you can then I suggest you go buy the appropriate stock and get rich because you'd clearly be smarter than everyone else on the planet.
The strategy doesn't seem to have been "take over the world instantly", it's more like "here's our ideas, which we think are winners, and we'll deliver on them over some period of time". I seriously doubt that period of time was only 6-7 months.
> "I'll continue to read long winded posts by simple people
> like me "
Indeed... your Freudian slip couldn't be more apropos.
Oh, I'm sorry, I used big words for your simple mind. My bad.
> "telling it like it is, by the way on a post by Precentral
> which was totally NEGATIVE news about our Pre."
I'll try one more time: it's the "telling it like it is" part that's the problem... you have opinions that are negative. Fine. You have a right to speak your mind. Also fine. But you seem to think that what you're saying is undeniable fact, and that's BS. It's nearly all debatable. That you can't accept that fact further supports your "simple people" slip above because only simple people shut their minds to ideas that contradict their own.
Raise things up for debate if you want, that's cool, but don't expect that no one is going to call you on your obvious axe-grinding. Some of us like what Palm is doing. If you have such a big problem with it, take your business (and pointless rants) elsewhere. No one will miss you, I promise.
> "I posted a somewhat NEGATIVE comment for a negative post,
> which in my opinion is totally fitting."
It is... *IF* you are willing to entertain the notion that you might be wrong. If you're simply deaf to others' opinions than I won't waste any further time on you.
> "Sorry to pee on your parade, fan boy."
Awesome. Resort to an ad hominem attack. Not only is it a resort to a cheap debate tactic that only people who subconsciously know their ground is weak, but in this case it's based on something I've fairly well shown isn't factual to begin with.
But, what else would I expect from admittedly simply mind such as yours?
Good try, but you have to consider who you are talking too. Keep it short and sweet. You get the same reaction.
I came from an HTC 6800 WinMo, first Palm phone. I have to say it was a nice phone. I broke the screen 5 times though with simple drops, one I tapped it out of the box and it broke. The Pre, with it's "plastic" feel is 300x the hardware of that 6800. Note the weight.
I have a very slight Oreo effect, but guess what my 6800 broke a tab which stopped the slider when opened, which made it open all cocked! Talk about annoying! The oreo in this phone doesn't bother me a bit.
I have had two speaker failures on my Pre's, guess what, I work around metal filings and the speaker is a magnet. I think more than half the hardware issues are the user's wanting this shiny little stone to be perfect. No scratches, nothing, or the users were the root cause. Which BTW, Sprint still took care of me on the speakers!
I still don't understand this oreo effect? Do you twist your phone and lick the inside?????????
Build quality was a issue at first and for some. All phones have problems. My Blackberry you have to pull the battery every couple of days to get e-mail to work properly. So yes some peoples phone broke. Thats what happens when you have moving parts. LG and Samsung sliders come apart. It happens. If your not happy move on. I guaranty if I hated my Pre, I would have another phone. There is nothing wrong with liking your phone and supporting a company. Personally, I always though Palm was a waste. I had a Palm Pilot all of two days before I took it back for a windows PDA. The Pre is the first Palm device I have ever liked. I bought a phone without a video camera and voice dialing. Yes I miss my visual voice mail, but guess what? I bought a phone without it. Palm owes me nothing. I payed for what I got out of the box. Anything they add on is gravy.
What this chart really reflects is how much money was spent on advertising for each platform. Lately, every other commercial is either that of an iphone or a Droid.
Since we have not seen a Palm commercial in months, maybe they are saving their advertising dollars for either an upgraded model or a new one.
Oh I see them. On IFC. Not sure that's effective value for the dollar, but I suppose if the budget has shrunk...
I dunno, they need a big announce at CES and then they need to advertise the hell out of it. Like 3x the advertising of before. For the first month or two, Palm and Sprint were doing a good job of getting the word out, but I don't think it translated to sales, so I think the message/product wasn't right.
a year ago droid was in the same boat, but they build on there new platform and pushed out many phones on many markets on many carriers.
now that palm is going that same thing lets see what happens and how things are different in 6 months to one year.
however i dont know if palm has any intention of being number one or two but just a solid contender.
with that much money to be made in the phone market, i would settle for 5th any day
and the funny part is everyone forgets about all the problems with the droid when it first came out and with no apps. but look at it now.
palm will be up there quick, just wait
I don't think the mind share had increased much with the number of phones pushed out, compared to the boost by the Droid commercials.
Really? let's see, Verizon has spent over 100 million dollars in advertising for the Droid. You can't connect the dots?
And considering the sales, VZ is probably really smarting over that.
@netwrkr: You make his point for him, the buzz wasn't created by ads for multiple Android phones (the Droid is a specific product), but for the Motorola Droid. That one product by itself has done more to raise the profile of Android by incorporating the name of the OS in the name of the product than any 5 other Android phones combined.
Android's raised profile is almost as dependent on 1 phone as the iPhone.
You kind of brush on an important point. WebOS and Pre do not relate to each other recognitionwise for non egg-heads. Droid links to Android OS. Blackberry anything relates to Blackberry OS. iPhone relates to iPhone OS. For people that don't know of WebOS but do know the name Pre, they might not have found the right pigeon hole within the survey for their answer, or assumed it was Android knowing it wasn't BB or Apple.
Ok listen...I believe what matters here is that there is a big enough user base that palm can develop WebOS. As long as WebOS internals and us users continue to provide quality feedback...WebOS (WHICH IS STILL AN INFANT) can grow and prosper and therefore so can Palm. So why we might be at the bottom now, its our ability to stand by Palm and tell the world how great Palm is that is whats going to raise Palm up in the world of smart phones. Think of it this way...we have nowhere to go but up...:)
I'm not sure that even 1 out of 100 smartphone buyers would be willing to put up with this kind of schedule. Most people aren't into tinkering with their smartphone OS as a hobby. You know, the kind of people who do not read smartphone OS blogs. They want to find something that works for them so that they can move on with their lives. Certainly no consumer-marketed brand like Palm can survive with this.
I doubt 1 out of 100 average consumers even use the term "smartphone". Whip out your Pre in front of a group of average people and start doing some cool stuff. Here's what will happen: "Hey, what's that, a new Iphone?" "No, it's a Palm Pre." "Palm Pre, huh? Is that like an Iphone?" "Well, sort of. It's a smartphone from Palm. It can do almost everything an Iphone can do, and a lot of things it can't." "So it's like an Iphone, but from Palm?" The fact is, we live in Iphone world now. There is just no ignoring the 800 pound gorilla in the room. If you're not making a product that is superior, or at least seems cooler, don't even bother, because you're just background noise. Fortunately for other companies, the Iphone is limited to AT&T, and many people that aren't already their customers are unwilling to go through the hassle and expense of changing providers. This means a cool phone like the Pre has a chance by being a big fish in a small pond; Essentially being the Iphone of Sprint. Unfortunately, this means that you have a very limited time to make a big splash before the next cool thing comes out. Did the Pre reach critical mass in time? Sprint seems to have moved on to Android phones as the next big thing, so only time will tell.
I doubt that the Pre is the flagship device anymore...I'm looking forward into the future to see the Palm "Pro" or whatever device Palm is thinking of launching next summer or fall. In the meantime, I will gladly be the guinea pig and allow WebOS to develop before my eyes
WHERE IS THE PRE2 bc sprint is coming with a ANDROID 4G phone in june so palm will lose me if they don't pick it up you feel me if you feel the same WB
I want a 4g phone, but to be honest, I can wait. The combination of EVDO RevA and WIFIis very effective for me. I'm not ever really feeling like I need faster data access. So, I can wait until Palm provides a 4g WebOS phone!
What has confused me over the last six months is why do the Pre commercials show the phone far away as if Sprint doesn't really understand what the phone does or Palm doesn't want anyone to see what it could do? Even the latest ad with the girl in yellow... none of that stuff looks like what you would see in the Pre except when you first see her swiping cards. If they could take Palm's two videos from their website and just air those... it would be 1000% better than what we have seen on TV, or condense the presentation that was done at last year's CES... everyone was blown away by Palm then... if they do an ad similiar to that... the average consumer would be blown away too.
But I have to say the Android commercials are great... although I keep yelling at the screen saying... the Pre does the same thing! But due to the piss-poor marketing no one knows it except actual Pre users and those who like to stalk (monitor) the Pre sites/forums like me while waiting for AT&T version of Pre... or waiting for the Sprint post-CES 2010 version of the Pre.
The Pre was spotted on the season premier of Heroes yesterday by yours truly...:)
Yeah, but did you notice it was a dummy phone, like in the stores? Which once again is another reason this phone won't sell. If you can't play with it, the reps aren't pushing it - it won't sell!
Pre lacks the tuetonic appearance and feel of Droid and Iphone. Closed its a featureless riverstone. With the slider open, the keyboard tray looks like a plastic spoon. It has plenty of substance and it's by no means ugly, but at a glance it's not come-hither beautiful.
people also remember Palm compared to a Google, and Apple is very very small. The company is trying to comeback now, and is doing so but with baby steps. Google had money alot of money even before entering the phone market, and when they did they copied apples basic needs for a consumer (apps) and released many phones on alot of carriers which they could because they have alot of MONEY. Palm has the best OS in the game right now no matter how much jailbreaking the iphone does to try, what is a poor attempt and multitasking, and googles poor attempt with the nexus. Once their phone is released on other carriers like verizon they'll start to gain ground, as well as more and more developers. As long as Palm plans to release a super phone to run webos for the summer, they wont have any problem convincing people of why they do have the best OS. Also good and bad releasing it on sprint first the good is that they can have complete freedom, and keep the cost down, the bad is that most he say she say people just dont like sprint, regardless if there a very good cell phone company. So threat not android to me has nothing appealing the Nexus can have a 2gig processor and still do nothing because they dont bring nothing new to the table umm cough cough htc hd2 cough same ish different laxative. As will apple have the same when they release the new iphone. So in conclusion either palm will get there themselves in a i predict year in a half releasing it on different carriers, or a big company like NOKIA (in my opinion it would help both companys) buys Palm and could really push an extreme cell phone world wide, and would have no competition at all.
sounds like a lot of wishful thinking to me. Clearly someones liking these competitor phones cause they are selling a lot of them. You may not find it appealing but a lot do.
Palm needs in your face advertising that highlights what the webos does so well, highlight how quickly the app catalog is growing, take those ever so popular iphone apps and develop them for their catalog and tell the consumers that palm does apps and more. increase memory, enable video and voice and battery life, and give the consumer more than one network while shoving it down the consumers throat...this is what apple does so well. they gather up their new toys and features and throw it right in our face, and force us to see what it does...and they show us that it works.palm should follow their advertising method...it is a great product that is improving, it is just not being showcased
Palm had better go nuts with the ads and innovations before this summer, or it's all over. The Pre will join the Instinct in the hall of failed Sprint Next Big Things.
It's called "marketing", or more precisely, whose done the most, more recently. Android had a heck of a "grassroots" campaign comprised almost solely of people who hadn't ever even used Android and just repeated over and over "man, I wish I had a droid" or similar in every comments section on any blog they could find...or they were people who had used Android and very little else...maybe WinMob or iPhone at best. And...I'll be blunt...Palm did a horrible job with their ads. Attempting to make people "think" or "feel" about a device isn't as good as convincing people that it's something that can help them (and save them a lot of money, but deliver as much as anything else).
Not to mention, Palm and webOS took the brunt of what was pretty much an aggressive FUD campaign run very similarly by Apple's attack dogs, but Android really hasn't taken much of a hit by Apple's dogs. Can't say why...maybe because it dawned on them suddenly that Apple's perch on the top wasn't as impregnable as they thought it was, with all these revolutionary new mobile OSs coming out that could do more than iPhoneOS from the get-go.
You need to capture the imagination of those selling the phones on the floor. The iPhone has a genuine following amongst O2 employees, they want you to buy it because they think it's cool and there's no other viable alternative out there.
Palm is too small and too slow to effectively compete on the scale needed. They can't release phones fast enough or wide enoungh carrierwise. And though they've done an admirable job updating webos they haven't fix some glaring omissions. i think they need to be bought by a much larger company that can do those things. And likely licensed. Unfortunately, Android is already out their, it's cheap to put on your phone and many big companies already have invested too much in their own OS.
interesting that Android is released on 7 or 8 phones, same with Blackberry. Pre just isn't wide enough or good enough. And even the Nexus one specs at a glance look to trounce the current pre. 1GHz and a 5 Megapixel camera. Compared to the Pre's 600mhz and a lesser camera? It's a hard sell.
my suggestion. Make better phones. Have better management. Pray someone with deep pockets buys you not named Named Nokia. Struggling companies buying struggling companies is a recipe for bankruptcy.
I think what the iphone does is play on what people use, and then they try to make sure that they do that best. So people use apps, check. so people listen to music, check. So people surf the net, no longer a check (pre has this now). people like to text with pictures and videos, check. but the gaps are closing. where palm failed is in their release or launch. i dont think they had everything covered and they pushed the device out early.
I am extremely happy with mine, but we here in the palm community are the minority. If they had ensured video, voice, multi messaging and a little bigger app catalog to begin with, i think the masses would have stayed with the device longer. I bought my phone 2 months into launch, and the local rep was already off of it. he had one, the entire shop had it, but they were unhappy with unfulfilled promise and switched...it had capabilities that were not being showcased and it makes it hard to sell most people on something that will eventually be there for a price of today. It is really bad when the reps at their launch sites are off something only 2 months in, people dont research they let the reps tell them what to buy, and they are sold. To be fair, the rep had great things to say about the pre, in particular the web browsing (all of which i was pretty certain of to begin with) but he seemed confused about why it was a seemingly empty device in his eyes. it is easy for them to sell the app catalog, which is what he was trying to do to me with the htc.
We in the palm community are very pleased about how they listen to our wants and during their updates they seem to be fulfilling them, but it seems to be dragging on and on. they need to pick up the pace a little for the public to take notice (and i understand they are a small company, but the public doesnt give a shit!)
The Pre ads were clearly a big FAIL. Only one of them even hinted at what multi-tasking could do for you. The Sprint ads are only marginally better ("do multiple things at once"? Big deal, I do that all the time.
The Pixi ads aren't as creepy, but they still don't emphasize what's different, or better, about the Pixi. All I get from the "FUN" ad is: it takes pictures (like every other phone), it texts (like every other phone), it's got a touch screen (like a great many phones), and it's got a keyboard (like many other phones. Based on those ads, I'd guess it's a competitor for an LG Rumor, albeit with a touch screen.
But I think there's more here than just poor marketing. In 6 months, there's almost nothing new to show. In the month or two leading up to the holidays, there were 3 or 4 new Android phones introduced, and a pretty big splash about Android 2.0. What did Palm show in that period? A few hundred new apps, and, umm, uhh, that's about it.
Six months is an eternity in the phone business. Palm's GOT to move faster in getting out updates, new features, and new phones, or at least the same phones on multiple carriers so that those carriers can start advertising the phone, too.
If I'm looking at my fist smart phone, there's little to recommend the Pre over it's competition. It's only on one carrier (and a not very popular one, at that). It's got few apps available. And there's no compelling story about what it does better than other smart phones. (Yes, it does do some things better, but the card methaphor isn't an easy sell compared to the additional features and apps available for other phones. Heck, AT&T is even showing how the iPhone can multitask.
thats pretty bad when windows mobile is ahead of you.
two reasons why (IMO)
1. The network
2. Bad Marketing
I know at least 4 people myself that have gotten an Android phone because it's on Verizon. I am really rooting for Sprint to step it up and provide more service in more areas.
WebOS is amazing, inspiring, everything a mobile OS should be. Unfortunately the average non-technical person does not know this because they see a creepy girl in a commercial or they get dizzy from the pixi commercial. I wish they would just make a commercial that shows ONLY the phone and its capabilities. (Like the iphone commercials, simple and to the point. gets the message through)
Just because Palm does not have 50% of the "mindshare" does not mean that it's the end of the company. Here's why:
-Palm is a small company. 3% of the market of the entire US cell phone market (over 200,000,000 cell phones) could be pretty impressive.
-Palm is an international company. There are over 4 billion cell phone users in the world. The US has only 15% of the cell phone market
-This survey only asks what they think, not what they will do. The people that say "Android" are the people that watch TV the most. Does that neccesarily mean that they will buy a phone that requires $50 dollars more a month for data? It could be that Android is what they would like to get if they had money and stopped watching TV.
WOW i read about every comment watch out for the trolls. I was a WM phone user 6700,6800,6900, touch pro, on verizon. simple fact i switched to sprint me and a co-worker talked about our bills i was paying $180+ a month for tether,1,500 minutes and unlimited data and text. Coworker said i have unlimited everything and i pay 115 out the door. i was like ok 70 dollars every month i could save WOW what am i doing. AT&T they dont even have a unlimited everything plan. Im in it for the savings of money. then shortly after i switch the same guy told me he heard of this phone that sprint has like the iphone coming out.
I researched and found this phone was the pre and it was comming out in a month. At this time i had the touch pro and had all the same issues with it that i had with all the other 6000 series on verizon. this whole time i was working with people who majority had iphones and were reseting the phone about 3 to 4 times a day. i was like that must suck to have a phone thats does all that stuff and still having to reset the phone a couple times a day under heavy use "I HAVE NEVER RESET MY PRE JUST BECAUSE I USED ITS FEATURES". that and the fact after about 3 hours they were looking for a power outlet to charge whats the use of having a multipupose phone to be UBER mobile just to run to a wall or car outlet after 3 to 4 hours.
I drop my pre 8 feet cracked the corner my friend dropped his iphone 5 feet cracked the whole screen. Build quality i still used my pre with no problems the iphone was less fourtunate. anyone that buys these highend phones are getting insurance NO MATTER WHICH PHONE YOU GET cause accidents do happen.
I just like the phone this is the first palm phone ive ever owned. the apps arnt that big a deal to me. all the apps my friend use on iphone and G1 are stupid fart and noise joke apps im like you payed for that crap. lots of the apps are mindless time waisters and retarded. not to mention of those 1 trillion apps 35% or close are copies of another app so whats numbers if these 5 are doing exactly the same thing.
No phone iphone G1 has amazed me just by using it like the palm pre. its just easy to do what you have to do and be done with it.
Let the trolling begin
The bottom line is Palm is trying to get around 5% of the market at this point. They are not trying to take over. They cant. They don't have the money or resources. You can argue all you want and talk in circles. The bottom line, People are still buying Pre's and they like them. If Palm survives, this time next year, we may be talking about a phone that can make a run. If not, we will all be either using a Blackberry, iPhone, or Android. I think i am going to be sick just thinking about it............
You have to keep in mind the average person doesn't even know what a operating system is. So arguing about any of this is pointless. People buy the iPhone because they had a iPod, then a iPod Touch. It has nothing to do with how much the phone will improve there life. They like listening to songs. I talk to people all the time who have Pre's and don't know what Web OS is and don't care. They bought a phone. Its only nuts like me that care. People are buying the Droid because Verizon is telling them too. Same with the Hero. Sprint sales people are pushing them, so they are out selling the Pre's. I bet 95% of the people buying the Hero don't even know what Android OS is. One girl I spoke with yesterday had a Hero and didn't even know what the app catalog was.
There are still things I am very disappointed about with the pre, the largest is a lack of medical apps (epocrates running under classic is a joke). However hopefully this will be fixed (I'm even willing to pay for lexicomp if it is ever released).
As for the build quality I did have one pre die on me. The power button stopped working. I pulled the plastic off, cleaned it, but still couldn't get it to work. Sprint replaced it at no charge, although my replacement phone was a refurbished with a "fixed" oreo effect (it was kinda of fixed but not perfectly). However the tiny bit of wiggle doesn't bother me and I am otherwise in love the phone.
There are beginning to be some descent apps. I use Time Spent to manage my study/leisure time. I also recently purchased paratrooper as it was a fun little game. With the low level API's and the openness of Web OS I am convinced that more games are coming. Even more exciting is the possibility that someone will create a descent emulator for NES/SNES. While action games would kind of suck given the keyboard, I would love to play some of the old SNES RPG's on my Pre (incidently the story on this site about the porting of LucasArt's adventure games also has me very excited).
Sprint does have somewhat sucky coverage. I never a problem receiving verizon's signal (with the free roaming) however when I am at school sprints comes and goes. The constant back and forth from sprints network to verizon kills my battery. Thus I am left with either disabling roaming (and not getting calls all of the time) or having to swap the battery out mid-day. Still sprint is cheap. 2 pre's with 1500 minutes, free mobile to mobile, and an airave (which is awesome) costs me only 140 month.
That sprint made forwarding to google voice for voicemail free also rocks. My wife is really bad about leaving her pre on silent in her purse or worse, leaving it in her car. With sprint, I have her voicemail forwarded to google voice which then rings our home phone (a voice over IP ooma device) before letting me leave a message. It makes getting a hold of her a lot easier.
My only other complaint is that, when using the airave the phones GPS gets messed up. It will occasionally say I am near the veterans hospital in Milwaukee when I am in fact near my house in Madison, WI. This only seems to happen when my phone switches from the airave to a regular tower. Anyone else ever get similar weird things happening?
Folks..Please don't blame this all on the "Marketing" of the Pre..be real with yourselves. The problem with this phone is that the only help this phone gets is through the wonderful Homebrew folks. And how many people do you think are tech-savy enough to add things to their phone. I have 3 coworkers that have the Pre and all use only regular functions. If you go to Best Buy to compare phones this is the NEW customer talking to the clerk.
Does this phone?
1. Record video like the android?
2. Doesn it have visual VM like the android?
3. Does it play nice games like the android?
4. Can you record voice?
5. Can you forward text?
6. Can you mass Text?
7. Can you download video?
8. Can you send audio and video like the Android?
The answer is NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
So why in the heck wouldnt Android be better the Webos??
Yup you are right!!! and imagine when it first came out...that is why this survey is BS.....Once the phone encompasses all of the itemized functionalities that you just listed it will blow everyone away.
Until then, to paraphrase The Steve Miller Band, "Mind keeps on slippin'...slippin'...slippin'... into the future."
I doubt that eventually developing equal functionality to the iPhone, Droid, Nexus One will exactly "blow everyone away".
Completely agree...
Palm is about 5 years late with the webOS. When the iPhone Launched, that should have been a CLEAR indication to stop development of any other phones and re-design their OS. Had they done that then the Pre wouldn't have as many pitfalls as it does.
Which is exactly what the Pre is; a pitfall. Palm's desperate and horribly failed attempt to combat the iPhone.
Palm OS has two things and two things only. Synergy and Cards.
If I were Google, I would steal the cards and synergy from Palm. Adopt multi-touch and they WILL reduce the iPhone to their respective fanboy market.
Until then, iPhone all the way and no amount of bitching about a slide out keyboard will change that. And I HATE Apple products...
I'm a die-hard Palm fan but I refuse to stand by a company that keeps making poor and foolish decisions. Palm is f***ing toast, I'll be surprised if they make it to 2012 without being acquired by a larger entity or going bust.
Boom...Head Shot!
I would expect there are a ton of very bright people at EP and Palm looking for a liquidity event ASAP. Perhaps on the heals of CES but I would say they have 4-6 months to do a deal before the cards start to fall.
BTW, I love my Pre but it is clearly not keeping up (now catching up) with Google and iPhone.
I ditto the last two remarks. Quit Politicing and someone make a visionary decision that won't be old school by the end of next week. Pre Plus is a Pre Minus to me because this is still not giving me anything above and beyond the iPhone. I'm a Palm fan too, but it appears that there is too much commercial short term focus. How is it that the revolutionary WebOS technology has already been closely duplicated? Oh and STILL no "Documents to Go" solution for those of us who had high hopes to actually have a phone that can help us to "DO" stuff. How is it that a High Priced Computer technology company (Apple)come in with a single idea that was probably birthed from the handicap stall in the mens room, and render a veteran smartphone company close to lifeless??!! This makes perfect sense........for me to poop on!! Come on guys!!
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