Classic on webOS 2.0 made possible thanks to webOS 1.4.5 Doctor, homebrew ingenuity | webOS Nation
 
 

Classic on webOS 2.0 made possible thanks to webOS 1.4.5 Doctor, homebrew ingenuity 122

by Derek Kessler Tue, 23 Nov 2010 9:22 am EST

Classic on webOS 2.0 PreCentral forum member and homebrew developer Arthur Thornton just earned himself a page in our book of awesome people: he figured out the so easy a caveman with Terminal access could do it method to getting Classic to work on webOS 2.0. It’s simple in concept and execution: extract the Palm OS ROM from the webOS 1.4.5 Doctor, and then load it onto your webOS 2.0 device. Tada, Classic instantly works.

It seems to be as simple as that, which makes us wonder why Palm decided to drop the Palm OS ROM from webOS 2.0 and shaft MotionApps in the process. The only thing the Palm OS ROM does is take up space (not a lot, it is Palm OS after all) and wait for Classic to launch it, so why cut it out. Unless Palm is pulling an Apple (dropping the floppy drive) and forcing developers and users to move on from old tech. Full instructions after the break.

Source: PreCentral Forums; Thanks Arthur!

Download the webOS doctor for your device (Pre or Pixi).

Extract the Doctor using a tool like WinRar.

Open the “resources” folder and extract the webOS.tar file.

Unzip the “nova-cust-image-castle.rootfz.tar.gz” file.

Hook your phone up to your computer and load the usr/lib/palmos/rom0/ROM.bin file onto your USB partition.

With SSH or novaterm run “ln –s /media/internal/ROM.bin /usr/lib/palmos/rom0/ROM.bin” to move create a link to the extracted Palm OS ROM in the USB partition to the device’s OS partition.

Reboot the device and launch Classic.

122 Comments

Oh, you're welcome :p

I just hope this all works! I've not tested it yet, so it is still in the speculation stage, but it is highly hopeful speculation.

It also requires that the Classic app isn't pulled from the Catalog.

Oh, why report on it if you're not even sure it works at all? Seems a little misleading when Derek says, "Tada, Classic instantly works."

I have to wonder whether HP/Palm would allow this. They intended for Classic to go away, so I'm interested in how they react if this does in fact work.

Guess it's time to backup classic now so that I can always load it back! THANK YOU!

Good job on this. That's quite a technical feat. :)

This is a good temporary solution, but if it relies on Classic being in the App Catalog, then it's not going to last when WebOS 2 is rolled out to all Pres and Pixis, right?

As long as you don't delete it, you'll still have classic. If you're concerned that Palm will remove it from the catalog and the app won't survive doctoring's (and it probably won't), then copy the classics app to your PC so you can install it whenever you want.

Oh, okay. I misunderstood. I thought that it being removed from the App Catalog would somehow mean it would be pulled from your device. Glad I was confused. :)

How do you copy Classic to the PC? I have looked at every folder on the Pre when it is in USB mode and can't find the Classic application anywhere.

Derek, I approve your use of the term "shaft". That is all.

Double Post fail

I love how this is purely speculative and untested yet the article makes it seem like a slam dunk.

I wonder if there might be licensing issues involved and that is why Palm wanted it to die? There could be code in the Palm OS ROM that HPalm is not licensing anymore, therefore this could land you, or even HPalm in legal trouble.

Palm has held the full patent rights since late 2006 (IIRC) and MotionApps gave them ALL patent rights when they gave Palm the Classic source code earlier this year.

OK, just trying to think why Palm would have ripped it out. If it really is as small as mentioned seems like the only reason left is that they wanted to "shaft" MotionApps.

With all of the stuff they've added in webOS 2.0, (such as Flash, newer builds of other things, etc.) it looks like they HAD to cut something out, and the ROM was something they probably figured was an easy cut-it-out solution where MotionApps would just have to package the ROM inside the IPK.

I have predicted before (in these very august pages) that the palmos rom would remain in legacy devices after the upgrade to webos2.0.

The reason why they do not want it on the newer devices is that they are trying to build a new ecosystem of apps, and attract as many developers as possible. By eliminating the palmos rom, they eliminate the legacy programs from competing with the new ones.

Your logic is faulty. If that was their position then they wouldn't be such firm supporters of homebrew.

Classic is a niche app that hearkens back to a dead OS formerly owned by a dead company. HP is moving on towards the future while others cling desperately to the past. To continue to support code that provides functionality to only one app, and a niche app at that, is just not good business (or good software design).

No, my logic is dead on: Homebrew spurs innovation on the NEW platform; Homebrew allows new developers to try out the new platform with minimal effort, zero cost, and near zero liability.

And how many NEW apps are there for Palm OS? None. How many new Palm OS developers are there? None.

Classic was a reach-out to Palm enthusiasts of the past to adopt the new platform. It was a calculated risk in hopes that the old Palm users would adopt the new Palm.

that's the problem that i have with it. Lure customers with Palm Os emulation and then take it away. Bad business.

Well, if they adopted the first generation devices, then they have not had it taken away, and as I stated earlier, they won't have it taken away if my prediction is correct.

If you didn't adopt the first genereation device, what would make Palm think that you would switch now? How many Palm OS users are left? Wouldn't most of them that wanted a better phone in the last two years have already switched to an iPhone or an Android already if they didn't already buy a Pre or Pixi? I'm not saying there are none, I'm just saying that that number is too small to base your business plan around.

This happens all the time in technology. There is a myth of backwards compatibility that follows any established ecosystem that always hacks some group of users off when the company changes things so that the old stuff doesn't work anymore. Can I say, for instance, Windows 95 and DMA: does that ring a bell to anyone? Microsoft and Intel had prided themselves on their backwards compatibility because on a lot of competing platforms back in the 80's and early 90's, every time the os was upgraded, users were required to replace all their software with the new version for the new os. But with Windows 95 and the pentium processors, and support for RAM greater than 4MB, they eliminated DMA (direct memory access) which was used by a lot of old (DOS) programs to process graphics. All those old programs that worked wonderfully in Windows 3.11, broke overnight. (Believe me, I had dozens.)

I think you are forgetting that not all Palm OS consumers had phones (or at least I presume they had phones just not Palm OS ones ;-) ) rather they had Palm OS PDA's. Like myself for example. Now I am migrating from my mobile phone and my PDA to a Palm Pre 2 and there are many functions and apps on my Palm PDA that I want on the new webOS platform. Unfortunately not all apps have new improved webOS counterparts - the main example for me being my Fuel mananger and my audio player (as webOS does not support ogg vorbis).

Therefore having that ability to continue run some of those niche PalmOs apps which was possible before webOS 2.0 is important functionality to many consumers - others may not care for or require it. Of course we all hope to be able to transition to webOS apps in time but I have at least two applications where that is not currently possible until someone can write an app for that.

Admittedly, the numbers are harder to factor as whilst there were many Palm PDA owners many have surely migrated to other platforms (iOS, RIM, Android, WP). Still regardless having the option is the key thing - thanks to Arthur we still have that. :)

Its probably as simple as "out with the old, in with the new."

actually, doesn't ACCESS LTD own the rights to the palm os? palm split into two companies before the HP merger: a HW company and a SW one. HP merged (bought) the HW company, whie ACCESS LTD bought the SW one.

ACCESS LTD even provides the latest version of palm os (palm os 5 aka garnet) as virtual platform for nokia internet tablets: http://www.access-company.com/products/platforms/garnet/index.html

it works pretty well, i have it on my n900.

my guess: ACCESS wants royalties for palm os, and HP doesn't see classic as driving sales volume for new webos devices, so palm os is not licensed.

or am i wrong? is there dispute over who owns the palm os IP? something like SCO versus the world regarding unix?

I think its a good work around. Palm/HP continue to push borders by dropping it and homebrew keep giving more options.

I'm looking forward to seeing if this is as successful as it sounds. I know many here don't see the need for it, but some of us really like having Classic. The app itself was a pretty expensive purchase in these days of $0.99 cent apps, making the thought of losing it all the more painful.

Also the above instructions don't actually move the rom to the OS partition. It looks like it simply creates a symbolic link (shortcut) which more than likely works just fine. Just understand that if you remove the rom from your media partition it will fail to work. Perhaps you could clarify that Derek so as to prevent confusion

- Phil -

I concur...

I added that to my forum post and I hope that Derek makes that a part of the article.

Yeah, but why not just copy it?

Because Palm removed it for a reason, which is most likely size constraints.

My mother in law had me help her with an issue on her Treo 650 this weekend. Using it again (I had all iterations from 600-750) I was aghast at how clunky the OS was. We look back on that thing with rose-colored glasses, but it really was a bad OS when measured by modern day standards.

I for one am more than happy that Palm is EOL'ing PalmOS. There's nothing useful about it and I can't see why they would put any resources behind it.

This is the way of technology, people. Either get on board or disembark.

i agree, and santa should bring that lady a pixi + :)

I understand the need to move on with new software on the WebOS. However, some of the palmOS software programs do not have replacements in WebOS. Until there is software to replace the old programs, we need to be able continue to use Classic.

I use several palmOS programs each day that simply can't be replaced currently. If I have the choice of WebOS 2.0 without Classic or WebOS 1.45 with Classic, I will choose WebOS 1.45.

Wow big ups to Arthur.. I've interacted with him on his PSN Friends app and @ 1st there was some kinks to be ironed out with his app.. Artthur noticed me here on Pre Central and remembered me from the review on his app.. He msg'd me and gave me some pointers to solve my issues, he would update the app and keep me posted and now everything is working fine and I'm a happy customer.. You don't find that in most devs.. Much respect to him and keep up the good work :)

Thanks for the mention and respect :)

I try to always look back at the following when responding and reacting:

Do unto others as you would have others do unto you

Knowing nothing about you other than some of the great things you have done... Your last line is all I would need to know

Do unto others as you would have others do unto you"

I applaud you and wish you great success.

Fantastic! I hoped there'd be a hack for this. I'm sure even if they pull Classic from the catalog, there'll be copies of it floating around the web... modified not to call home if necessary. ;-).

... and for the record, I'll say what I know a lot of people in the same boat are thinking: I don't care if it violates any licensing. Some of us have come to rely on a workflow that uses apps that were designed for Palm OS. Yes, it would be ideal if someone would re-write them for WebOS. However, in a lot of cases (for example, the airline pilot logbook software we've discussed in the forums) the apps are specialized and the devs have disappeared so the likelihood is low. If folks who rely on that stuff can find a way to make a program they BOUGHT work on a device they OWN, you can bet it's gonna happen! ;-)

So major kudos to the folks who are working on this, even if it's only in the "conceptual" stage. Heck, WebOS 2.0 isn't even out yet, so we've got some time! Thanks guys!

You know, I've seen references to "Classic" around here before and now seems a good time to ask:

What is the attraction to having a WebOS device operated like or look like a Treo? I had several Treos and I can't think of anything I miss about it except the ease of copying and pasting a calendar entry. Is there something great about it that I've forgotten?! Thanks.

It isn't that they want to have PalmOS running, but rather they need it running because they rely on apps that are on PalmOS when webOS has nothing as good.

An example is that I see a lot of people who say they rely on Datebk6. The reason they use that is that it is much better than the calendar in webOS.

They have reasons for their need for Classic, and until developers (or better, Palm) bring truly amazing PIM apps to webOS, PalmOS is superior in some areas (such as PIM).

I've never used a Treo (or anything from the PalmOS days), but I understand the reasoning.

Precisely

the reason for physicians would be EPOCRATES ESSENTIALS, instead of the beta version of Epocrates that isn't updated more than every 6 months, and doesn't have the full dose calculator or medical reference info. The PalmOS version has all that.

For myself, I am hoping that this fix or a version of it will keep Classic and Epocrates Essentials working for me. I am that much closer to sending my 21-day old Android phone back now...

A big "Thanks" to arthur thornton and PreCentral for this!

Derek.. Could you update the post to reflect the latest changes.

Thanks!

Thanks Arthur !!! You are the Grandmaster!!! Thanks to Precentral as well!

For how long does the license last that Palm bought from Access? And maybe it's got something to do with the acquisition that they (had to?) drop support for PalmOS in webOS?

+1
I firmly believe this has much to do with why HP removed the ROM. Even with this, the likelyhood that the Classic app will be removed from the catalog is almost a foregone conclusion. As MotionApps has released the app to HP, for HP to continue to sell/provide an app that they know is non-functional without homebrew support would be unthinkable.

Just tried this and it works! There's even a symbolic link already present in the Pre2 code - thanks Arthur!

For me, the killer app in PalmOS that I simply cannot do without is SplashMoney. I have a myriad of accounts, expense reports and the like which I use SplashMoney for. Both the mobile version and the desktop sync'ing are essential features and there is nothing like it on webOS.

Thanks Arthur! I was dreading going to 2.0 because of this issue and now I'm ready to update!!!

^This and SplashID are the primary reasons why I still use my Treo 680. And the fact that SplashData isn't fully supporting webOS.

Plus the now-awesome-when-compared-to-my-Pre battery life.

For those of you that don't use classic, good for you. Since the choice of apps for webOS is so weak many of us have apps that haven't been written. (apdl from logbook pro as mentioned earlier.) If I can't run classic then I am going to have to carry my treo as a PDA until my contract is up and I switch to a droid or HP pushes out some quality apps. (there are some quality apps on webOS but many categories are missing)

"Classic" is for the true Palm user.

The type that are SO AFRAID OF CHANGE they have to have 90s software running on their phone.

How's that SDTV and dial up working for ya?

you obviously are blinded by your fanboism. Some people made the investment into webOs because of the emulator and the rom. The software was $30 to even run old Palm software.

I didn't run classic but certainly rubs me the wrong way. i guess if it doesn't affect you personally it's ok because it opens up the door for personal attacks on the ones it does affect.

*edit*

furthermore, what does it say about webOs that their users have to fallback and emulate their old OS for productivity? I don't think anyone would be complaining if webOs delivered in that regard.

The only thing I'm going to say to this is what I'm going to post on the person below you as well:

If WebOS can't do what you want/need it to, to the extent that you're going back into the stoneages as far as mobile OS, AND HPALM SHOWS NO INTENT OF MAKING IT DO WHAT YOU WANT/NEED IT TO, maybe it's time to *omg watch out because this gets really intelligent* MOVE TO A PLATFORM THAT DOES SUPPORT WANT YOU WANT/NEED IT TO....instead of spending $30+ to run some emulator of an OS that doesn't even exist anymore.


I salute Homebrew Devs that spend their time doing this for the masses.
I don't salute stupid people because they are so in love with a brand name they would rather be taken advantage of instead of getting what they want/need done.

apparently a lot of people have done exactly that, if you need evidence look at webOs market share. why are you being a blind fanboi? Again, I have ZERO interest in Palm OS emulation myself but I'm not attacking those that are pissed off that it's going away because I can see why it would be very frustrating.

Giving someone something and then taking it away is BAD business anyway you look at it. Imagine if they did the same thing with Flash (oh wait we are still waiting on that one...) or anything else. There's nothing to say that they wouldn't do this again in the future but I suppose you won't really care because you like grabbing your ankles and saying "yes sir!"

Explain what aspect of any of my posts are "fanboy". Let's not use words just for fun.

As far as what you're suggesting I think this is merely more evidence that even devs are sick of the way WebOS is being ran.

I can't fault a business for not continuing to do, what many consider to be, bad business.
And to date that's exactly what WebOS is, bad business.

"Classic" is the only way I can lisen to Audible.com audio books on my Pre (since Audible has absolutley no intention of supplying a WebOs version of their software) so I, for one, will be glad to have this option - thanks

I said this above, I'll say it to you as well:


"If WebOS can't do what you want/need it to, to the extent that you're going back into the stoneages as far as mobile OS, AND HPALM SHOWS NO INTENT OF MAKING IT DO WHAT YOU WANT/NEED IT TO, maybe it's time to *omg watch out because this gets really intelligent* MOVE TO A PLATFORM THAT DOES SUPPORT WANT YOU WANT/NEED IT TO....instead of spending $30+ to run some emulator of an OS that doesn't even exist anymore.

I salute Homebrew Devs that spend their time doing this for the masses.
I don't salute stupid people because they are so in love with a brand name they would rather be taken advantage of instead of getting what they want/need done."

Wow - a little upset are we? Take a pill and relax dude

I'm not upset at all I just type the way I would speak.

imagine the outcry if windows in their next service pack said "ok guys, xp legacy mode is going away! Have a nice day!"

The outcry is pretty irrelevant though.

Windows XP after SP2 was a very solid OS. Probably one of the best ever.

Was.

Past tense.

Windows XP is 9 years old now.


In computer years that's about 250.
Time to move on.

that's not always an option for everyone. What if your business can't buy new hardware with windows xp on it anymore and upgrades to windows 7 but the software you run still requires xp and isn't windows 7 compliant. You're waiting on the FDA to approve the software version of windows 7 but in the meantime windows decides to take away legacy mode in an update that is essentially required because it also addresses a major security flaw.

For every one time that the scenario you just presented occurs 99 other complaints are just because people don't want to upgrade.

And actually if Microsoft took my advice and actually forced people to move on from the dark ages then that software that isn't Windows 7 compliant would become Windows 7 compliant all the more faster.

I'm fairly certain the only thing that happen is more lawyers lining their pockets with green bills because there would be a substantial amount of lawsuits that would ensue.

I fully believe that in this *wonderful* [that's sarcasm] country we live in people would sue because an old version of software that's two generations out, and no longer sold, is no longer being supported.

I fully believe that.

That doesn't make it right to sue, though.

there's a HUGE difference between offering something to entice customers and than taking it away and simply not continuing to support software.

Okay and your assumption is that they are doing that just to be jerks.

There's a valid reasoning for it.

you're assuming that there is a valid reason. I'm not assuming anything, simply stating the facts.

Palm takes ROM away
Palm DOESN'T even bother to tell Motion apps
customers that bought either a webOs phone because it was able to emulate "old" software and/or simply spent $30 on software to emulate old palm favorites are teed off with no explanation from Palm or HP

Companies, especially those in the position that Hpalm is in [with respect to WebOS], don't do things for no good reason just to piss customers off.

There's a valid reason behind it, even though they may not have handled it correctly.
[But hey, name one thing related to WebOS that WAS handled correctly]

the relax comment was directed to Mattyknox

you're the one that isn't getting it. The emulator was NOT homebrew. It was an official Palm catalog application. And as far as moving to a platform that does what they want it to, a lot of people thought they did exactly that when they upgraded to webOs with palm OS emulation. You get the new and the familiar old but now they are taking it away from those users for apparently no reason.

"Classic on webOS 2.0 made possible thanks to webOS 1.4.5 Doctor, HOMEBREW ingenuity"

I didn't say that Classic was homebrew.
Obviously making it work on 2.0 is.


I get what you're saying but here's what I'm saying:

Since WebOS has came out the ONLY thing that has been done is modifications.
For one reason or another almost EVERY aspect of WebOS has been modified.
There's a problem with that.

There's nearly a 1000 modifications available for WebOS to make it do what people want it to do.

Well guess what, that's ridiculous.
And what's even more ridiculous is that the response to the modifications from Palm/Hpalm has been to ignore those modifications and alter OTHER aspects of WebOS instead.

That works well for the 1% of people that want to mod their phone, not for the other 99% of users.

It's PAINFULLY obvious that they aren't listening/aren't getting it.
Yet people decide to continue to stick around because of this "love" for Palm.

so I'm not sure what you are complaining about, it seems that you are complaining that you CAN modify webOs via patches?

so if you couldn't modify it, that would be less ridiculous?

I'm pretty sure my Mom who has a Pixi isn't like "oh man, I wish this phone did this and that and that other thing she didn't think she wanted it to do."

webOs does, for the most part, what everyone wants it to do. There is a calendar (for me it's perfect), contacts that automatically back themselves up, best notifications ever, too many cards error (I don't even play cards, no really I got that as a txt last night from my mom..she was joking of course), and a slew of other things. For the rest of us that want to customize webOs to our hearts desire there is homebrew and the fact that they are, as of now, openly embracing the community.

You told me that Classic is used for things that WebOS cannot do.

What I'm telling you is that if WebOS cannot do what you want/need it to then maybe it's time to move on.

I continued my point by showing you that Palm/Hpalm seems to have NO INTEREST in improving WebOS.
I back that statement up by showing you that very few, if any, "patches" have actually be incorporated into the WebOS platform.

There are several patches that have come from the homebrew that have made there way to the actual OS

Name three, keeping in mind that the notification LED patch doesn't count because it was actually found in the coding for one of the versions of WebOS that was released but wasn't actually available as it wasn't completely finished.

1. Adding additional and naming App Launcher Pages
(Coming in 2.0 yes?)
2. Precorder was homebrew for video recording before the video option was implemented in webOS
3. yes the LED notification
4. CPU Scaling (Palm Pre2 / webos 2.0)

Those are the first 4 that come to mind off the top of my head.
Take note I am not willing to argue the fact that you may justify the precorder or LED not counting because they "were not finished" nonetheless it was a patch/homebrew that allowed us to do something the OS was not able to do at that time. Which was shortly or later after input into the main OS.

Given the 4 above I would say even though HP Palm has not taken ALOT of patches/homebrew and input them into the OS they certainly have taken the most Valued of them all. I applaud HP Palm for the ones they have chosen

You're missing the point, if the emulator WASN'T available to begin with then those people that webOs currently doesn't cater to would have more then likely moved to a different platform. Instead webOs DID emulate their old programs that they are familiar with. That's a HUGE boon of an incentive. Get a slick OS like webOs and the ability to keep all of your familiar programs that you are accustomed to.

again, my gripe is not that webOs doesn't do these things out of the box currently. I could care less. My gripe is that Palm gave their customers something and is now taking it away. That's a kick in the pants to people that invested into webOs knowing that they'd be able to emulate important applications.

You're a little confused, man.

Classic is made by motion apps.

http://www.motionapps.com/classic/

Motion apps has chosen to NOT continue this app, very likely due to the realization that WebOS is going no where.

because PALM is taking away the necessary ROM embedded that makes that application even possible.

Okay and your assumption is that they are doing that just to be jerks.

There's a valid reasoning for it.

Holy crap.

Uh... you know that when John Rubenstein was at Apple he was the one responsible for getting rid of the floppy drive.

Hmmmmmm...

To: An open note to home brew programmers.

You people are amazing....once again you have shown why the open system of webOS and all of your creative talents have made webOS the best in the business.......

In just a few weeks time since we have we were told about webOS all of you have been hard at work.

Nice going!

Take care,

Jay

Can anyone post instructions on how to do this for the ones like me that is a bit challenge?

Meh, why use PalmOS when you can set up Debian on your phone and have access to the thousands of programs made for Linux desktops?

I'm still wondering who has the 2.0 update. If it's you sprint hurry the hell up! You've had enough review time.

I don't think there's any evidence at all that webos 2 is ready for existing devices; at this time it runs on the Pre2 only. hp/palm keeps saying "in the coming months" which to me indicates they're not even close to releasing it to the carriers.

I foresee HP's embrace of the homebrew going away in the future. There's no way they are going to continue to support homebrew if and when they gain substantial marketshare. Just my opinion here and I'm think this is a great work around but if Palm puts up roadblocks and we can get around it using things that others don't provide (webOs doctor) to get around licensing issues it will go away. mark my words.

Now I'm confused here. There's some people saying Palm has full rights to the PalmOS, they bought out the patent and MotionApps gave up rights to Classic when Palm announced it was dropping PalmOS from webOS. Then there are people saying that Palm dropped PalmOS because of licensing issues. Which is it?

Besides, if it was the licensing issues, I would say that prevents Palm from distributing it, but others can still find channels to get it. It would not rest on Palm to completely block PalmOS. Whoever has rights to PalmOS would have to pursue people who break their licensing agreement.

I'm only saying this because if we can utilize webos doctor to circumvent Palm/HP removing a rom from their latest update for whatever reason that is certainly different then developing apps that utilize api's that aren't' officially available or making a theme for webos or various patches. There was something else recently that brought into question whether HP/Palm would approve but I can't remember what it was.

I'm not dogging on anyone for this, just to be clear I think this is a great workaround. I'm just saying i foresee them embracing the community in the short term because for the most part that's all they have right now is us.

2 words.
Custom Kernels

Yet HP Palm still promote this idea and I would say this is much more invasive to their product than adding additional support to your current device.

It just "might" be safe to say that we as consumers are not use to a large company embracing the homebrew to the extent that HP Palm has been embracing us.

I believe if there was something wrong or crossing lines we would hear of it. I say this because look at the good relation HP Palm has with webOS-internals. They brought Rod to Dev Day and had him speak to developers and let them know what this community has accomplished. Thats Support, Thats good relation

Yeah, it's funny, HP talks a good game about supporting Homebrew, but, well, they're a huge American company. Usually companies that are that large can't see the benefits of innovation, and they usually die because of it. That's just been the history of business, not just in America, but all over the world.

If one day they turn on the homebrew community, the community will still survive, they'll just go underground. And HP/Palm will have sealed it's doom.

Why is everyone talking about HP turning on the homebrew community? They didn't remove Classic to shaft homebrew. I don't know of any homebrew projects that use Classic. Since homebrew got PalmOS on webOS 2.0, now you think you'll be the object of HP's wrath, when just a couple of days ago every Palm developer either mentioned a homebrew app or used one at Dev Day?

This is great news! I see some saying if WebOS doesn't provide a feature or app we need, we should move on, but the problem is no platform does, so we are stuck. Besides, WebOS is pretty good. Amazing.

But it is missing some features (hopefully it will be resolved with the 2.x api's and resources from HP). PalmOS has the best PIM features, anywhere, still. The calendar was amazing, it could back-up/sync to desktops, and had over 25,000 applications. That is 5x what WebOS has now. Many of those applications don't yet exist on WebOS (or any other platform).

Personally, I use Classic for Passwords Plus. There isn't a WebOS password program that has desktop support on Mac/Windows (who wants to enter url's, passwords, etc. using their phone, seriously?). I also occasionally use it for doc editing (Docs to Go 11). And for historical calendar data. WebOS calendar broke when I tried to import 10 years of data into it. Then tried Missing Sync, which took over 2 hours, and breaks ever other week. Finally, I gave up. Used Classic. Works great.

So if you want the PIM features, or a particular app, Classic is your ONLY option.

It is a stop-gap solution. Hopefully, in a few months, we'll have alot more apps, more features, and we can move on.

And for those making the Microsoft analogies, note that every version of Windows still includes a DOS terminal...

so i guess this is good for those who a) already HAVE classic, and b) already have a pre. very happy news for those folks, and a good piece of work.

is there any way to download a copy of classic without a phone, since i am on sprint and don't have a webos phone yet (hopeful that a new device will show up someday soon)? and if motionapps has discontinued it, how are you to get a license to fully enable a trial copy? i sure would like a copy safely stored away before they are impossible to get.

i suppose it isn't possible for someone to post the file for the app (trial without license) somewhere for people in my situation (i.e., no phone to install it to)?

Wow! I posted this same idea... Of using the rom .in the current 1.4.5 and putting it un to 2.0...... I guess great minds think alike.

(I posted this up on one of the classic 2.0 posts in the forum here)

Glad someone read them and acted upon it. Mabrook

I thought of this the day it was mentioned that Classic wasn't in webOS 2.0.

I finally decided to put up instructions because Palm hadn't made any announcements regarding Classic.

We do think alike, but I didn't read your post and I came up with this idea 100% on my own.

We recognize you both.

Many great ideas were founded by different people independently.

Calculus, for example, was discovered by both Issac Newton and Gottfried Leibniz.

Sounds pretty much like "The Secret" to me.

[insert Twilight Zone music here]

I tried this on my Pre 2 and it works perfectly! Thanks devs for the great ideas!

With SSH or novaterm run

really? wow.

Unfortunately this is impossible for people who didn't buy a Classic license while they were still selling it. I installed the Classic app, but there's no way to purchase a license for it!

Maybe we can convince them to sell licenses without support? I can't see anyone turning down money, but maybe there is something we are unaware of...

Is the 2.0 App catalog allowing the install of Classic since Palm is deeming it incompatible?

I'd like to know...

If this means that one can take the rom of an EFIGS (english, french, italian, german and spanish) Palm Centro rom (the device Classic emulates) and put it there instead the english one, to have classic in other languages...

If someone could port the POSE emulator, written in C, to make possible to run Palm OS 4.x roms in WebOS 2.0, being that emulator freeware (I think)
Cheers.

How do I get the most recent Motionapps Classic app?

I am grateful to Arthur for making this happen. While I don't often launch Classic any more, I still prefer to have it available as an option for those apps and functions that are not (yet) on webOS, like HanDBase. Classic was never intended to be a permanent solution for most of us, but it has not yet outlived its usefulness.

Hopefully, once HP/Palm starts pushing out multiple devices, and the broader developer community sees sufficient sales volume to take the risk on a new platform, the remaining apps and functions will become available on webOS, and Classic (and the PalmOS ROM on which it runs) can be retired with appreciation of their service. {Jonathan}

Thanks for the gratefulness.

Also, I'd like to thank you for the presentation you did at Dev Day. I couldn't attend, but I still watched your presentation.

Thanks Arthur.
I have a big part of my life setup on Natara Daybook and Datebk6. Nothing on WebOs comes close.

My heartfelt Thanks

\\BEGIN SARCASM\\
Thank you soo much Hpalm for allowing me to used an unlicensed file to keep my Classic programs going. Without this I wouldn't be able to use Epocrates Essentials, a true working VNC program, and Audible to name a few...

Don't worry though, I'll only be violating your licensing terms for a short while, as the Iphone will be on Verizon soon! (and all the above apps already work without hackery on the Iphone)
\\END SARCASM\\

Anyways, Arthur Thornton, I truly do appreciate you working this out for us all, to buy us all some more time...

"If WebOS can't do what you want/need it to, to the extent that you're going back into the stoneages as far as mobile OS, AND HPALM SHOWS NO INTENT OF MAKING IT DO WHAT YOU WANT/NEED IT TO, maybe it's time to *omg watch out because this gets really intelligent* MOVE TO A PLATFORM THAT DOES SUPPORT WANT YOU WANT/NEED IT TO....instead of spending $30+ to run some emulator of an OS that doesn't even exist anymore."

Let's explain this again, for the folks among us who flunked remedial reading: FOR SOME OF THESE APPS, THERE IS NO PLATFORM THAT RUNS THEM EXCEPT FOR PALM OS. Coming back to the APDL logbook software so many of us aviation professionals use - that software DOES NOT EXIST on IOS, or Android, or BB, or WebOS... or anything! It runs on Palm OS and THAT'S IT. There is NO OTHER SOFTWARE, by ANY NAME, on ANY PLATFORM, that performs a comparable service.

Physicians have a comparable suite of software for THEIR profession. So do some others. Yes, we're in the minority. That doesn't mean our requirements aren't important! Classic may not be important TO YOU, and in that case, great news! I've got the perfect solution for you: DON'T USE IT!!!

Genius, I know. ;-)

With all due respect I sincerely-- SINCERELY-- doubt that between the Apple App Store, the Android MarketPlace and the Blackberry catalog....almost 500,000 apps across three platforms...there is NOT ONE APP that does your APDL logbook or any other app that Classic may contain.

I'm sorry, that is virtually impossible.

My guess is you either haven't looked or don't care to look.

500,000 apps. Someone has something equivalent.

The number of apps doesn't say anything about the usefulness in a business environment, sadly. Being one of the physicians mentioned above, I still heavily rely on PalmOS apps. I don't need any of the 10^x farting, beer glass emulator, or waggling bossoms apps. My PalmOS PDAs not only opened the way to the SkyScape service, they made it possible to carry a couple of compendia (MobiPockt format), and doubled as a voice recorder for speech recognition via DNS. It's more than a decade since I began using PDAs. Apple's first trial beating Palm, the Newton, disappeared quietly from the market in those years. Apple was pretty close to follow the Newton's fate.

WebOS with Classic was (and still is) a nice way to continue using most of the PalmOS apps with very little effort, and still carrying only one device in my gown's pocket. The Aceeca PDA32 is another opportunity. Or maybe StyleTap on one of the supported platforms.

As long as the PalmOS apps are still useful, I will continue using them. Yes, call me old-fashioned. I don't mind. And happily continue commuting with my side car bike. I don't need a Porsche, a Mercedes, or an iPhone. By the way: there is no big market for side car bikes either. Or folding cayaks. I don't mind. And will enjoy using all this vintage stuff, as long as god will allow me.

Oh, I almost forgot: An awful lot of thanks to Arthur!

With all due respect, you are sincerely -- SINCERELY -- wrong. Do you honestly think that, of the ten thousand-plus airline pilots in this country (USA) alone, one of them wouldn't have found this mythical app by now if it exists?

Maybe you aren't familiar with how fast gouge travels in this industry, but believe me, even BEFORE the advent of the internet, if someone found something else that did the job, we'd all know about it in a week. Today, in the internet age? We'd all know about it in a day! ;-)

There just sincerely isn't anything else that does the job. Are there half-baked attempts? Sure. Most of them cater more to general aviation than the airlines though. None of them track flight/duty time limitations the way APDL does, and none of them sync with Logbook Pro.

Dude, every other first officer I fly with has an iPhone or Droid. They're all jealous I can still use APDL on my phone. I'm TELLING you, an equally-functional app DOES NOT EXIST, on any platform.

None of that has anything to do with the point of the discussion though: don't like Classic? Don't USE Classic! See how easy that is to solve? Just leave the rest of us alone! ;-)

> None of that has anything to do with the point of the
> discussion though: don't like Classic? Don't USE Classic!
> See how easy that is to solve? Just leave the rest of us
> alone! ;-)

+1. Thx.

;-)

Just curious whether anyone has confirmed that this actually allows Classic to work on WebOS 2? Since the only WebOS 2 device currently is the Pre 2, and as I understand it it's impossible to download classic onto a Pre 2, then no one actually knows if this works.

Somebody confirmed it in my explanation post.

If you follow the source link and go to the second page, you'll see the confirmation of a working Classic on a Pre2.

Mr, Thornton
Any help you can give to get "Power48" to work in Classic would be greatly appreciated.

There are obviously a lot of people that are concerned about Classic. I agree that it is old and we should move on with the new, but WebOS still is not ready without classic. The PIM of classic is still as good or better than Outlook and the present PIM in WebOS does not let me do the things that I need to do for work and personal reasons.

At work, I use many classic apps that I must use related to healthcare. As of now, WebOS does not have these programs or similar programs. So I am stuck. I did not buy and Android or iPhone because I still needed these programs for work. I bought the palm pre plus because I could continue to use needed programs until new Palm apps replaced the Classic ones. At least this give us users that still need some of the classic apps to attempt a fix until WebOS apps are available to replace the older PalmOS apps.

I guess the other option is to block updates of the WebOS (if that is even possible) until WebOS has the type of apps that are needed. And if HP/Palm does not step up to the plate to help out, I understand that Droid may be getting a program that runs classic and that a jailbroken iPhone can. So my question to HP/Palm why dump us in such a competative market? Hope every has a great Holiday.

Can someone make this work for WebOS since i can not longer download PalmOS?

I need it for work to tune peoples stereos, and only app is for PalmOS and Windows Mobile.

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.asp?cat_id=1&ser...

click software downloads to download the PalmOs file

LOAD the phone via USB and then once done, UNMOUNT the phone.
You need to be in PHONE mode for the last step(see tether example, he does this when in phone mode)

Last two steps(fix):

mkdir /usr/lib/palmos/rom0
novacom -t open tty://
issued to allow access to the internal storage (OS-side) to get the ROM (APP) to work.

SEE PALM Tethering example for 'older' version.

make the link NOW.
THEN REBOOT the phone(issue exit to leave).

/usr/bin/luna-send -i palm://com.palm.applicationManager/rescan {} while inside PHONE mode inside the novacom session will reload the apps list.