The Competition: 57 Percent of Blackberry owners looking to switch platforms 46
A recent study conducted by research firm Nielsen examining consumer attitudes in the US smartphone space had some rather staggering findings, the most alarming of which bodes poorly for Canadian smartphone maker Research In Motion. Of the respondents polled, 71% of current Android owners are looking to stick with the platform for their next upgrade, 89% of iPhone owners were likely to purchase another iPhone, and an alarming 42% of current BlackBerry users plan on buying another 'Berry. This, combined with the recent setbacks RIM has been facing in newer markets such as the UAE and India, the company has more than ever riding on the upcoming refresh of its operating system.
It should be noted, of course, that webOS remains as just a tiny blip on the smartphone operating system radar, showing only a vanishingly thin 2% market share with little sign of that turning around any time soon - though if RIM's slide into oblivion continues, handset makers like Palm will be able to continue to eat their lunch.
Other interesting metrics echo those that we've seen come from other recent studies - that smartphone penetration is ever on the rise and the unstoppable force that is Android is on track to overtake iOS as the top selling platform - if it hasn't already.
Via: AllThingsD; Source: Nielsen; thanks to everyone that sent this in!
46 Comments
Research form?
I stopped using a blackberry 2 years ago and haven't looked back
The fact that 7% of BB users are looking for Other is a point that HP/Palm must exploit. I doubt many BB users are looking for symbian/meego, so Palm needs to step up and say, we're what you want. Palatable size, real keyboard, whatever, Hurd needs to get the message out and others may follow. That's a lot of BB users ready to be stolen, even if they're pointed at droid or apple. Press that Enterprise button, lets see what happens.
If there were some significant marketing to make people aware of HP/Palm and WebOS, we might see more people thinking about going in this direction. Remember, Verizon didn't advertise the Pre Plus at all, and the same goes for AT&T. This means that virtually all sales are by word of mouth or people doing their own research.
Verizon PUSHES the Droid and Droid X, while AT&T pushes the iPhone. There is NO push for Palm devices by the carriers. With a true flagship product with a 1GHz or faster processor and a 3.7-3.9 inch screen, that would put a new Palm phone in a very good spot for those wanting a modern phone that LOOKS competitive on paper.
Now, if AT&T and Verizon started to sell the Pre Plus pre-overclocked to 1GHz, that would also help, but advertising, or at least having sales people pushing the devices would also be needed due to the lack of advertising presence for Palm devices.
It would also help if Palm made better smartphones.
That's the #1 reason right there.
Considering I am running my Pre Plus at 1005MHz, the only bad thing about the Pre Plus compared to the phones at the top of the market is the screen size.
1GHz....We have that, it just isn't the stock speed.
512MB of RAM, we have that.
16 gigs of storage we also have.
Open operating system that doesn't require jailbreaking or rooting is something we have that other devices do not.
The only real problem we have is the smaller screen and with it, smaller battery. The build quality of the Pre Plus on both Verizon as well as AT&T is actually pretty good at this point.
So, better phones? All we need are some fairly minor upgrades to the hardware and WebOS would have a device that would make the other devices out there seem somewhat clunky.
And thats the reason I finally left Palm. I've been a Palm user from the M100 series to the Treos running Garnett and even tried the 800w. I camped out for the Palm Pre on June 6th and when the phone finally went, I decided to move to BlackBerry. Palm MISSED the ball on a few things with the Pre. In their effort to make the messaging and calendar apps more eye pleasing (there are a number of features in the calendar app of course), they really forgot what made them so great (at least to me). The speed of being able to open up an email, text message, calendar without waiting for the app to load is something I missed from my Treo smartphones and the reason I'm on BlackBerry now.
For Palm to get me back as a customer:
1. Bigger keyboard (Treo/BlackBerry size please...and no gummy keys)
2. Faster app loading. Seriously go find a BlackBerry/Treo and open up the messaging app. How long does it take? Its pathetic that people came up with patches to help cope with the wait time by having the app icon pulse faster, slower or not at all to make it APPEAR faster.
What? Sprint had multiple Pre commercials. Verizon had multiple Pre commercials. PALM had multiple Pre commercials. How much longer are we going to blame "advertising"?
Last time I checked, Palm has (as of three weeks ago) access to unlimited resources and has an OS that they are trying to promote beyond any individual device. They only have themselves to blame if they never created effective ads, didn't coordinate with carriers to make them, and are letting radio silence continue at a time when their mindshare is zero.
When was the last time you seen a commercial? And the ones they had were bad. So the point is they need new hardware and then great marketing NOW!!! And we need carriers that actually WANT to sell them.
If Palm/HP comes out with great hardware, and a WebOS update with full PDK support and make an attractive deal with carriers they should do well. And if with all this they could also come out with a new idea that is not currently done on a smartphone that would help.
So are they still lumping webOS and PalmOS together under "PalmOS"? Is that helping or hurting?
Also, are there any smartphones running just Linux? I ask because Linux is listed as a category with pretty low numbers.
I'm willing to bet they're grouping both OSs together under PalmOS. If that were the case, it would only help. However, the # of actual PalmOS users out there is probably pretty negligible. Googling for information on WebOS market share seems to coincide pretty well with the graph.
http://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&pws=0&q=%22webos+market+share%22
Yet another survey/comparison that doesn't even include WebOS. Sign of the times for WebOS.
the keyboards on those blackberries rock. tapping twice on space bar to make a "period" is so fast and fluid.
Well, you can count me as a WebOS owner whose next desired platform is Android.
Looking forward to an RTM widget, swype keyboard, and bluetooth voice dial.
Oh, and 4G, a modern processor, Super-AMOLED screen, and a platform that people actually develop apps for.
Bye.
here let me count you....
douche bag = 1. Check.
now get your wallet out and leave.
+1 HuevosOS sucks
So do we REALLY think HP wants to spend time and money making up for a 2% market share in an industry where they already said they don't have any interest in "SmartPhones"? I think WebOS is the "intellectual Property" they were really after and it will have very little to do with phones.
I hear what you are saying but it just isn't resonating with me so I will just dismiss it.
Its more about HTC and Motarola than Droid in my opinion. Most users (avg) dont have a clue if they are using 2.0, 2.1, 2.2 or the latest Android version, but are more focused on the latest visual hott phone.
This is why MS7 is seeking to follow same blueprint. Everytime the phone-makers push out a new model with minor additions, buyers will bite.
You really NEVER here users rave about Android, but more about the latest cool device.
Replace Android with webOS on these devices, and webOS may have already over-taken iOS.
I agree, there are a lot of HTC phones out there that run WIN and people think are droids, and vice versa. Most people still shop on phone hardware and capabilities, its how we buy computers, the O/S is assumed to be fine if the hardware is a good value.
RIM really has been slow to update their aging OS.. I know 6 is right around the corner but the fact that they've released two "touchscreen" devices that were meant to compete with iPhone with an antique OS didn't help matters.
This is definitely an opportunity for Palm/HP to capitalize. Get the Palm Messaging thing working and deploy it ASAP to get some of those BB messaging sticklers to change their minds.
God help us if people think that only two platforms matter. I could care less about Android or iOS. Seriously. I can buy whatever phone I want, just about any time I want and I would still choose RIM or Palm at this point. I prefer hard keyboards, and that immediately cuts Apple. Everybody keeps making midrange garbage phones with hard keyboards for Android. I've used both of their OS's as well and neither one offer anything astounding IMO.
The Android OS is actually pretty lame if you take the special Google bits out that other OS's could(and used to) be benefiting from. i.e. TBT navigation, etc. iOS still has limited multitasking even though its more useful.
webOS still, and always will have the best multistasking and most fluid OS hands down. All we need is 2.0 and GREAT (are you hearing me HP/Palm????) GREAT hardware and we are back on the map again. DON'T SCREW THIS UP!!
BlackBerry's are still insanely fast at what they do. Yes, they are simple and not as pretty as the competition. WHO CARES? BlackBerry's are meant to be run and gun, fast, efficient, and social. That's it. There is a reason why a lot of celebrities use BlackBerry's. Keyboards, and they do "social" extremely well. BlackBerry people just want to stay connected to their peeps. Email, SMS, MMS, BBM, IM, Twitter, Facebook,etc. They don't care about games so much. They don't care about HUGE screens so much. If they DO care about that....they leave. Simple.
Ask most BlackBerry loyalists and they will simple tell the weak ones......"see ya".
-BeeRad
My mom had a Treo. After that she got a Blackberry.
It saddens me. She loves her BB. No matter how much I tell her to switch back.
The only reason adroid "blew up" so fast, is because their phones saturate the market, they come out with a new phone with andriod OS every month it seems. And ofcourse it has "Google" mindshare behind it..
If HP delivers WebOS on multiple form factors with top of the line specs and does a good ad campaign showing all the benefits and ease of use, then webos can see growth comparable to android.. mostlikely..
Dont blow it HPalm!
release these all at the same time:
-->Slate phone (like iphone style, maybe slightly bigger screen, but smaller then those bricks with the huge screens)
-->Slider (like the pre)
-->Side Slider
-->and candybar styling for the lower power users who prefer small phones.
(All the phones should have same hardware specs, maybe lower end for the candybar styling, but for the others they should be same top of the line processor and plenty of ram and front n back camera/vid recorder/conf)
AND
-->The PalmPad!...
might as well show how the phones and the PalmPad can work together and show the sexyness of both, more bang for your buck..
>=)
You're right, their phones saturate the market, but guess what - they are made by a lot of manufacturers.
There is **NO** way HPalm can come out at once with all the devices you listed. Hell, they can't even come out with **ONE** device!!
I seriously think the only way webOS makes a splash in the smartphone market is for HPalm to license it out to manufacturers. If that doesn't happen webOS will be relegated to a niche OS that runs on some devices from HPalm. Also if that doesn't happen, there will be one or two HPalm phones before they lose interest and drop out of the market completely.
I agree... Give me WebOS on my EVO and THEN we'll be talking. A phone being a "One Hit Wonder" won't work anymore. iPhone is beginning to see that right now. How many people would want iOS on anything but an iPhone. But MANY would want WebOS on their current phones. HP/Palm could make a killing they ported WebOS to many Manufacturers.
But hey... what do I know?
I realize that crackberry forums are only a fraction of the users of a blackberry. But with the way some of their dedicated members like civic(dont remember the entirety of the name) who constantly bash on the blackberry operating system, build quality, and how things need to change (and how they wont), its no wonder to my why people are being driven away. And yet those people who bash on RIM are still dedicated to their blackberrys. Why cant they focus on the positive instead of the negative? I realize its important for a company to grow, but jesus. The way they talk about the phone its like a plague.
the hardware is the problem...sure the OS is great but generally people don't care. To put your money down most people want something nice and shiny to show off...what sells? na beautiful screen-nicely sized, a very good camera...good video recording, quality apps...a nice media player and a very good touch keyboard...i love the physical keyboard, but they don't sell to the masses...its not just build quality and screen size people, it is lack of good camera and media player and more...it is a hard device to sell to an iphone user who uses it to combine camera music and phone into one...people can blow it off all they want ( especially the fanboys that will defend it no matter what) but if you want it to stick and sell, this stuff has to be addressed
the hardware is the problem...sure the OS is great but generally people don't care. To put your money down most people want something nice and shiny to show off...what sells? na beautiful screen-nicely sized, a very good camera...good video recording, quality apps...a nice media player and a very good touch keyboard...i love the physical keyboard, but they don't sell to the masses...its not just build quality and screen size people, it is lack of good camera and media player and more...it is a hard device to sell to an iphone user who uses it to combine camera music and phone into one...people can blow it off all they want ( especially the fanboys that will defend it no matter what) but if you want it to stick and sell, this stuff has to be addressed
Here are the problems with webOS phones (IMHO), and why marketshare for palm is abysmal:
1. Hardware sucks - screen is too small. Hardware is old now. People are buying what's new. They choose the phone first, then the OS.
2.The back gesture is killing sales. I would guess somewhere in the range of thousands of phones have not been sold because webos is not intuitive right when you pick up the phone. It is cool once you learn it but I can't tell you how many people I've had to show how to use the back gesture because they get stuck in program and can't find a way out. Most of the sales people don't even know the gestures and no one reads directions. That is why apple will always have their round 'home' button, because it's so easy. Most people figure out iphone in minutes after picking it up.
3. The carriers are not pushing palm phones.
4. Palm advertising has been awful.
5. None of the big names are making apps for webOS yet, and people are seeing all of their favorite sites and stores developing for iphone and android.
6. Palm has made several os updates but still is way behind android and ios4 in features
7. Battery life is awful, especially for blackberry users trying to come over from something like a bb curve that easily ran for 2 days straight.
8. The keyboards are too small and cramped for older hands.
don't mean to be harsh but these things are true. I have a pre and have loved it, but it's frustrating to constantly see palm always1 step behind their competitors...
I completely disagree with your comment about the back gesture; it's that elegance that makes WebOS such a joy to use IMHO. When you first buy the phone there's a nice little tutorial to let you get to know that. Yes, I understand that people in the store might not figure it out right away, but every time I show my friends they always think it's pretty nifty. It does take some getting used to, but I think it only took me a week or so to come to terms with it.
As far as reps not knowing the gesture...well Palm seems to be spending a little more time with carriers to educate their sales staff these days, so hopefully that trend won't continue.
I agree with everything else you wrote. I think the biggest deal breaker is the sluggish performance, by far.
Ya the sluggishness kinda kills the phone sometimes, I love webos, but it can be deadly slow at times..
as for the gesture bar.. maybe he is right, maybe people really dont know how to use it.. but to get rid of it would be the biggest mistake ever.. thats one of the best parts.. but maybe add a "noob" arrow button for those who are less tech savvy to "get it"
or better yet, show a commercial like that damn intro video, so people get it... make the commercials simple like the iphone commercials with the fingers..
Except for the back gesture, these are all big spots for drastic improvement. The back swipe is so simple and universally applicable, it really separates WebOS from the common button crowd.
I agree with TreoAce about the gestures. People don't understand gestures even though it's extremely easy and the best way to use a smartphone.
I've had Android and Iphone users try using my phone and they just couldn't seem to comprehend a movement instead of a button for back and forward. Either that or they didn't want to get jealous how cool gestures could be and just brushed it off as being too difficult.
Sure, first use its totally foreign, especially if the Pre isn't in a snappy mood. But after a few different types of tasks and actions, it's almost immediately branded into memory. And I find myself "gesturing" on my laptop, auto nav screen and full sized copiers that have glass controls.
I'm not big on touchscreens, loathe them in general in fact. But the crispness of WebOS makes them tolerable and I'm willing to give up on tactile buttons despite my animosity. I loved Treo and the five-way and miss it, but gestures works well enough for me to adopt. I would like more accuracy in the Pre screen though.
If they were smart they would let HTC and Samsung make WEB-OS phones. The EVO with WEB-OS or the Captive that's coming out would be sweet 4g WEB-OS.I have 4g working at my house in Anaheim ca and were not even on the list sure its only one or two bars but the speed was way better. i tethered the phone with usb 3g download 50-100kbs with 4g steady from 490-500kbs this was with the same torrent.HP PALM just needs to get going the more time that goes by the more people jump ship. I have a offline PALM PRE and my HTC EVO the wife has a PALM PRE and she loves it she kills the battery every day shes on it all the time. all the office girls love it as well. I may have strayed because i just have to get a new phone every year I love gadgets. Im sure Ill be back if they have something good by next June.
I too have Evo and I don't regret it one bit. Palm made too many broken promises, for example flash integration which I just got today thanks to Froyo on Android, Palm never came through. They can't even get out 1,4,5 on time and its been two months.
You guys are right about one thing people do want the latest and greatest and they don't usually know anything about the OS, they just want the phone. For some reason I couldn't get anybody interest in webos phones no matter what I did, I guess you might say its not cool to own a palm devices.
As much as everyone preaches about webos being so intuitive or the overrated multitasking that they can care less about...I found the opposite to be true to the average person.
I was in the Sprint store and I watch people get frustrated tying to use a Pre and then go to other phones and it was like second nature. Most people don't want to reinvent the wheel(webos) they want to stick with something they know, buttons. This is one reason other than hw why Palm and Webos is failing to attract the mases.
Sprint's financials are like night and day with the EVO as the flagship phone vs the Pre. Basically, the EVO did for Sprint what everyone thought the Pre would. I don't think Sprint is going to go back to featuring a Palm as their flagship phone again anytime soon.
In fact, without a significant customer base - they probably had a lot more Treo and Centro users available to convert to Pre than existing Pre users to convert to the next Pre - and without a significant carrier base, it's doubtful that Palm will be a major player in the smartphone field going forward.
HP needs to fix Palm's reliability issues before stealing customers that are used to a reliable platform.
A lot of the people who have BlackBerrys only have them for work. They wouldn't bother with a smartphone, or would pick something else, if left to their own devices. That probably affects the numbers in such a poll.
This is amazing! Has no one noticed that the combined total Android/Blackberry of 50% would buy iPhone! This is shocking considering most Android users accuse iPhone users of being simple minded and not able to think for themselves. Plus, if Apple made it available on all US carriers, all Android gains would come to a screeching halt.
Get REAL...!! I'd rather be in a concentration camp then be a slave to the SJobs plantation!! You're all in chains. Use Apple... or perish???!!! Nah.. not for me.
I bought the Pre last year, waited for months for its release, the device was totally up to par with all the hype that surrounded it, exactly a year later I opted for the Evo. All of you guys on here are wondering what happened to the Pre or rather WebOS, well I'll tell you, its a combo of many of the things mentioned on this board but the main ones are as follows : Terrible, Terrible, Terrible marketing, anyone who says marketing doesnt matter is truly an out of touch moron, those creepy commercials by Palm or the Mom commercials by verizon helped doom the Pre because they really sucked and were beyond lame. Next mistake..... cheap sub par hardware, the hardware Palm was working with was blown out of the water by heavyweights like Apple and HTC who know how to design a product (though I would never buy an Iphone as they dont even work right as a phone, but im sure you get the point). And last but certainly not least is developer support, this is absolutely CRUCIAL! If you dont have developer support in this industry you have nothing. Its like having a Ferrari with no tires (which is how I view WebOS), without the developers the OS just cant go, which is exactly what happened. I got tired of waiting for the platform to take off, and If HP doesnt do something like today, WebOS will never truly take off. The Android OS is not nearly as polished as WebOS, although its very good, what it does have is developer support, which is how it became everything that Palm should have become, had they not dropped the ball.
Give me WebOS on my EVO and THEN we'll be talking. A phone being a "One Hit Wonder" won't work anymore. iPhone is beginning to see that right now. How many people would want iOS on anything but an iPhone. But MANY would want WebOS on their current phones. HP/Palm could make a killing they ported WebOS to many Manufacturers.
But hey... what do I know?