The Competition: Kin, by Microsoft 78
We’ve seen those “Project Pink” phones floating around for a while now, and they’ve finally come to the surface. Named Kin One and Kin Two, the two phones slot somewhere between the feature phone and the smartphone. To be offered on Verizon and Vodaphone, manufactured by Sharp, and running software from Microsoft, the Kin phones are more social media devices that happen to make calls than smartphones with social media grafted on (ala Motoblur).
The Kins, which seem to be built off of the same guts as the Zune and also seem to run an extension of the Zune OS, are easily the most social networking-oriented phones we’ve seen to date. But where the slot between feature phone and smartphone is a bit hazy. If anything, seeing as they are very much inspired by Microsoft’s acquisition of Danger a few years back, we’d have to say that these suckers are the new Sidekicks. Which, incidentally, Sharp also built.
So here’s how Kin works: the singular home screen - "Loop" - aggregates your feeds from Facebook Twitter, MySpace, and specified RSS feeds. What makes Loop unique is that it allows you to specify certain friends that you want to see more from, so those important to you (your kin, naturally) are at the forefront of your Kin experience. A circle, called the "Spot," at the bottom center of every page allows you to drag content from all of these feeds to then share with your friends over email or SMS. Where Kin amps things up, however, is Studio. This online quasi-social network allows Kin users to upload all of their captured content (photos, videos, messages, etc) onto a flowing Silverlight-powered timeline. It’s actually pretty darned cool, but we have to wonder how well it stands to catch on as a platform-specific network in the face of universally-accessible social networks like Facebook and Twitter.
The two phones are also Zune-compatible, the first Microsoft phones to be so (they’re due to launch before Windows Phone 7 arrives). Hardware-wise there’s some impressive stuff packed in there. The Kin One has a horizontal 2.6” 320x480 capacitive screen with a small keyboard that slides out from below, ala Palm Pre. The Kin One also packs an impressive 5 MP camera with flash and a paltry 4 GB of storage. The Kin Two is a 480x320 horizontal screen deal, with a larger horizontal keyboard that slides down (ala HTC Touch Pro), and packs 8 GB of storage and an 8 MP camera with flash.
Are these phones a threat to the social networking integration present in webOS? We wouldn’t say so. They’re targeted at the “tween” market that uses Facebook and Twitter to stay in contact more than email and suddenly old-fashioned. They made no bones about it at the presentation, the Kin One and Kin Two are targeted devices, whereas Windows Phone 7 is a general purpose smartphone operating system, like webOS, iPhone OS, or Android.
In fact, the Kins are quite lacking in many areas. There’s no IM, no calendar, no YouTube, and no uploads to Twitter (considering that Twitter uploads are to third-party services, that’s little surprise). What surprises us, however, is the complete lack of any app infrastructure. There are no apps to download and install, and no way to develop for the devices. Which means that these are purely social networking and media devices - you won’t even find yourself playing games on these phones.
In short, the Kin One and Kin Two don't seem aimed at smartphone makers like Palm or Apple. Those that should be concerned are manufacturers of feature phones and messaging phones. As Phil over at WMExperts said, the Kin devices ‘crank social up to 11’ (just like our amps), and that’s their purpose. Pure and simple.



























78 Comments
bet they are built better than the Pre though :p
Say what negative things you will about Microsoft's software, but their hardware is almost always rock solid.
Does the fact that it includes Zune components mean it works with Zune Pass?
Like the Xbox 360 that had almost a 1 in 3 failure rate?
I know we're talking about phones, but it still falls in the "hardware" category for Micro$oft.
I was referring more to the Zunes, keyboards, and mice; though you are right about the Xbox hardware being kind of screwy.
I think Derek is wrong to assume Kin is not a competition. Once they have kin synergy worked out (sounds really cool, as per article) it can be so easily implemented in the coming windows phone. So basically they ar alpha testing their networks and alpha testing the software strongholds.
This is not Microsoft hardware. It's Sharp.
Look like next generation text phones.
it does work with Zune Pass see the second video from Gizmodo:
http://gizmodo.com/5515310/microsoft-kin-hands+on-videos
seriously, who would buy these phones? these things should be marketed to kids 5-10 years old. whoever thinks these lil things are better than the pre is out of their mind... let me guess those people would rather have Ryan Leaf as quarterback then Peyton Manning...
If Microsoft were ablle to convince carriers to make this a top of the line prepaid phone subsidized to be $150 or less I could see a definite niche for teens that aren' t completely trusted by their parents not to go overboard with a family plan. They'd probably have to come out with a special tier for data (likethe iPhone), but iit would still be under a prepaid plan.
My guess is these are the phones that killed palm at Verizon...they should have known for some time now that these would come...so they dropped the pre & pixi even before the launch...just a wild guess...
These phones appear to be doa? I mean I dont know the pricing yet but unless theyre free why would you buy one? Considering you can get the pre and pixi for a song right now. And fwiw my friends are piling in on those deals actually...
I thought the point of these phones was to be on a special lower teared data plan. Something like $10 a month compared to $30? To kind of fill the in between market that it's aimed at.
True -- And that's probably why these phones will only update messaging every 15 minutes (unless manually refreshed).
the price is 50 $
The first gen aren't great. Just wait for Next of Kin though.
Best response ever.
Agreed. +1 for cleverness. :)
Whatever... This is comparing apples to oranges. Despite the fact that it somewhat visually looks similar. (rounded corners and slideout keyboard) It's not a smartphone.
Our point precisely.
Unfortunately, most people will look at the headline and photo but skip reading the article. Calling this 'kin' or kid phone a competitor just hurts Palms image more. Keep up the good work.
Remember, Derek is not the brightest bulb in the pack.
I wouldn't go that far. There have just been a couple misleading headlines today. I appreciate the work these guys are doing and wanted to provide some constructive criticism.
Says the pot to the kettle... Why these guys tolerate $hitbags like yourself is beyond me.
I doubt that. Seems to me those that frequent this site actually read articles.
Darwin at work, if they were considering Pre/Pixi and picked up a Kin with 4gigs of storage, that's their penalty for not reading the article.
Pretty sad when precentral is Playboy for young geeks, just in it for the pictures.
Yeah sure, Derek killed Palm, it wasn't the Borg or lousy marketing or soft batteries.
It was rumored to be a competitor, thus we saw fit to look at it through that lens and dismiss it as such. It's not like the title betrays anything about the device, except for the name.
Derek- don't let dumbasses get to you. it was a good idea for an article, because soon these will be advertised, and some nitwit might turn to me and say, "that looks like your Pre" and now I know I can tell him, "no that is a piece of crap for 12 year olds." I will leave out the part where I say "My Pre is for Soccer moms"
microsoft/windows phone? no thanks... i have enough ms stuff in my life already with all its attendant headaches (and the hardware might be good, but it looks like a fischer/price toy).
apple ipod/iphone? no thanks... don't care for closed/restrictive apple stuff (like itunes, mac-osX, etc.)
android? it's a runner-up, but getting dangerously close to becoming microsoft-esque due to the whole relationship with google.
my money is on webOS. superior technology, open architecture, kick-ass homebrew and user community here at precentral... yes, hardware has its issues, but i'm of the impression that it is getting better.
The styling of the industrial design of these things is totally wanna-Pre, Pre-too IMO.
Damn i just throwed up in my mouth. That phone is kinda ugly lol
and i bet multitasking sucks on it and no 3D games like Need for Speed or NOVA. So ya i just throwed up again lol.
Seems like Palm targeted the same tweens with the ill conceived Pixi. Difference is, these MS phones may not need a data plan.
What?! The Pixi is a very capable device. Not a movie player or game device but a great phone. I've recommended it to a bumber of people who are thrilled with it and WebOS.
Thay did not target "tweens".
The Kin looks like the Pre's shorter fatter cousin...
But it has a good personality. We promise.
for every hottie (pre) there is the equal and opposite nottie (kin)..
The Pre/Pixi sure look like the odd man out these days, huh? With new hardware coming out left and right from everyone and their neighbor, Palm sure looks like it's lacking these days.
I can sorta see your point but not from this particular set of hardware...Odd thing is no one seems to rip on the iphone hardware being outdate..spec wise they are also getting smoked (if I recall they are similar tech specs internally).
the thing about the iPhone hardware being outdated is that those phones (3GS) run extremely fast compared to the Pre and Pixi. So in reality it doesn't really matter that we have the same processor. It's the fact that the iPhone is much snappier than Pre. It makes it less noticeable. But, I sure do love my Pre at 800 mhz :)
I agree... the patch is wicked fast btw! But vs a snapdragon processor and oled screens and such, which is the paper specs I speak of, no one seems to care that the iphone is really a step back in specs. Just interesting imo. To say it more simply: It seems everyone is in a hardware race with mobile phones BUT apple.
you've touched on apple's winning philosophy. more importantly than the consumers not caring, apple doesn't care about specs, they care about the experience.
and they want you to believe that when you are using the ipad or the iphone, the tangible disappears and you have a screen. what potential lies within that screen is up to the developers and ultimately the consumers. buttons? who needs buttons? allow something than i can interact with to be supremely entertaining and functional, and i won't need to have physical buttons anymore.
and youre right, people obsess over the specs. like when the htc evo 4g was first announced. all the guys who know tech specs knew what this meant. they knew that this was all candy. but still, the experience that the htc phone will bring to the table as compared to the iphone experience will be a completely different one.
Exactly. Like Steve Jobs always says "They just work."... Well most of the time (iPad wifi) hahah
Apple has the luxury of a large flock of customers who will buy their products regardless of specs (still at 600MHz processor), features (no multitasking), absurd quirks (non-replaceable batteries) or crappy network (ATT).
Marketing/branding makes the world go 'round.
Because specs are not everything. The software plus the hardware is what makes a great experience.
The competition sure does suck.
this isn't the competition...
Wow, it's a great design :
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/1848/huhu3.jpg
Am I the only one who think like this ?
That is exactly what I thought when I saw the picture of those things on Engadget.
and how exactly do they get to copy the Palm design and not get sued?
+1
I don't know how it's possible that nobody is talking about it in any news on the net, WAKE UP GUYS, they took the Pre'design and they put it on their two phones.
I'm not anti-Microsoft but it's the second time that they steal ideas from Palm (first one whith their advertissment on Windows Phone 7, a copie of the only one of Palm which is good)
Microsoft's ad premiered so soon after Palm's that there's no way that it was a copy. Sometimes things end up being developed in parallel.
Because "small slider phone" isn't really a patentable design. Just like Apple's not suing HTC for making slate touchscreen phones.
Ah, that pic should have been with the Kin Two which looks like a Pre.
I kinda like the Kin Two, the UI seems very cool, but since you can't really install apps on it I am going to stick with my Pre, which is just freaking awesome!
I kinda like the design of the little one. Something charming about it. Hopefully MS will put out a WinMo7 device with a portrait slide-out qwerty.
Is it just me or does the Kin Two look a lot like the palm pre (plus)
does every thread have to mention the iphone! I bet half the ppl who ride apple don't even own one! I love my palm pre...Holla!!!
no IM in a youth-aimed device? that's not good.
Is it just me wondering about the pre screen?? Derek: "What wrong with you?":D too funny. The Kin Two looks similar to the pre! Don't know OS seems to be some fun. But MS Phones have bad luck in getting popular till now.
Hmm it looks like a typical Ladyphone.
But w/e Win 7 phone is no real competition. At least not now and at least not with such a form factor.
Its like a rounded up version of this moto square phone.
Imagine a double screen slider, while one display could function as a touch keyboard and display.
and i am still throwing up in my mouth the phone is just ugly. but at least the people that made the phone accomplished something. we all talk about this ugly piece of crap device. mission accomplished i guess.
You might want to go check yourself out. You keep wanting to throw up a lot lately and seeing how much you have been riding Palm lately, you might have something stuck in your throat.
"In short, the Kin One and Kin Two don't seem aimed at smartphone makers like Palm or Apple."
yeah. i don't even know why this story is relevant to Palm pre users. At least for me i'm not measuring my Pre against this. I'm measuring it against, the EVO, Iphone HD, and now to a lesser extent Droid, the best blackberry and Android phones. (I'm not buying a windows phone but to some HD2 also.)
But as of this writing It's Palm Pre vs. EVO vs. an Iphone HD on Sprint for me. Nothing else is in the running.
What is the horizontal line beneath the Pre's screen? Mine doesn't have that... just a silver dot. And the Plus versions have nothing there. Did I miss something? Is it a some sort of blemish?
That's the Verizon Pre Plus. It appears when you touch the gesture bar where the round button would be on the Sprint Pre.
There is no comparison between the pre and the kin. One is a full-featured smartphone, while the other is (at best) a mediaphone. The hardware looks nice (My Zune is rock solid) but I would not trade in my Pre for that alone. When it comes to the ability to install apps and do everything a smartphone SHOULD do, the Pre wins hands down!
That's not competition, that's a toy.
That's not competition, that's a toy.
Focus on social networking but lack Twitter and Instant Messaging? Yeesh, those are serious missteps...
How is this news related to Palm? Did Microsoft say that it's targeting the Pre/Pixi market with the kin, or does Derek assume that every phone that comes out is a contender against Palm? Talk about always trying to make Palm look like the perennial underdog. Good job, Derek.
In all seriousness... why are you here?
Let's stay within topic, please.
wow...is everybody bent out of shape because of the whole aqusition or what? 1st, thanks Derek thanks for the article, I like knowing about other devices because I love tech. (Pre or not, I celebrate the lil gadgets that make our lives easier, so again Derek thanks again) 2nd, the Kin is in a whole different class of devices. You can't and I repeat CAN'T compare these devices. The Pre as we all know is an actual smart phone, the kin simply put is not. (Lack of apps and email support make that clear) This phone will be 2nd gen sidekick basically. It's mad for tweens, the kids that are just on fb and twitter mostly. I think it's a cool device for the kiddies. And maybe even some uber social networking heads. If you don't believe me..engadget cosigns..peace o and xoxo 2 the ladies ;) : http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/entelligence-think-pink-first-take-on...
one thing is for sure. these little son of a bitches are cute as hell. lol
sorry, double post.
Of course the Kins are competition for Palm. For most average users the Kin will probably do everything that they currently do on the Pre. Text, Email, Phone calls, Facebook, and probably with longer battery life and better hardware. I love my Pre, but I sold all my Palm stock when I read the review of the Kin yesterday. I'm afraid palm is headed down the same path as Sony Betamax and HDDVD. The better product often loses to better marketing.
Trust me my friend, its all about resources. Palm's competitive edge lies in the "almighty" dollar bill. If Palm had the resources along with the innovation that lies within the company, it would kill. The right company willing to take the gamble to infuse Palm with the resources it needs can only make this happen. I think you should hold on to that stock. Its dirt cheap anyways!
fyi, HDDVD wasn't the better product/tech... it was a M$ halfass attempt to stay in the market without actually developing anything.
but i do agree with you, these phones will do just about everything most people will need to do on their phone... hell from the videos on their site, i want one. the Kin Two, horizontal keyboard ftw (stupid Palm).
i also still don't understand why people are stuck on games for phones. simply put they all suck at it. touch screen for movement and actions is total fail, g-sensor for movement is total fail. go ahead and compare any game on a phone to the PSP...
i do love WebOS, but they just left out too much... and the hardware isn't great, the keyboard plain sucks. i don't even use it anymore due to the need to go back and remove all the double types, only the touchscreen hacked in keyboard now. it's a shame, hopefully HTC buys them and throws WebOS on some good hardware.
54% fail rate on xbox 360 to me anything more than a 30% fail rate should be considered total fail.