Current webOS apps will run in emulation on webOS 3 / TouchPad [Corrected] | webOS Nation
 
 

Current webOS apps will run in emulation on webOS 3 / TouchPad [Corrected] 100

by Dieter Bohn Thu, 10 Feb 2011 3:55 pm EST

Correction: We've been waiting since publication for official clarification (read: in something longer than 140 characters) from Palm, but in the meantime Combee has tweeted that the "emulation window" is not actually a device emulator, just a window that will provide back and forward buttons. In other words, the current Mojo framework for apps will apparently be supported natively in webOS 3. However, there are still plenty of questions, including how Meta-Tap (which require the gesture area) will work and what resolution this window will display apps at.

We'll post again when we get proper word from HP, but in the meantime feel free to bask in the confusion that was behind the original article below while you mull over the fact that the question of support for current webOS apps on the TouchPad wasn't directly addressed at the ThinkBeyond developer event.

---

During our meeting with HP yesterday, we heard some curious talk about "legacy" apps on webOS 3.0 on the TouchPad. Specifically, we were wondering what would happen to apps that utilize the gesture area. Well, we now have our answer: current 3rd party webOS apps will run in an "emulation window" on the tablet. So said HP developer Ben Combee on Twitter:

The background here goes like this: despite its similar appearance to previous versions of webOS, webOS 3 on the tablet is a bit of a complete rewrite based on HP's new Enyo SDK, released last night. Current apps are based on the "Mojo" framework. We've already discussed the many technical benefits of Enyo, but it appears that just like HP has made the hard decision to be foreward-looking when it comes to OS updates, they're also going to make a similar decision for the core bits of their OS. 

What about the Pre 2, Veer, and Pre 3? All signs point to them being released with webOS 2.x which should support both traditional Mojo apps as well as next-gen Enyo apps (the video calling demo on the Pre 3 was done with a re-written, Enyo-based phone app). They also have and support the gesture area. What about that 'emulation window' on webOS 3 / TouchPad? Things definitely appear to still be developing (ahem), but a window with buttons sounds pretty inelegant to us. How will apps scale up? How will cards look? 

What about developers? Honestly - this is a tough one. You can choose to continue to develop in Mojo with the knowledge that your app will work on all current devices - but the shelf life on your apps running as native code could be only a year or so more. The flip side is to opt into the new Enyo framework - but that's still in a pre-release Alpha stage and you literally won't be able to sell a single app until Spring at best when the Veer is released. Note also that developing in Enyo is quite a bit different from Mojo, HP's Matthew McNulty went so far as to say that Mojo developers need to spend time unlearning what they know about webOS before they can properly wrap their head around Enyo. 

Make no mistake: the future of webOS is Enyo. That looks like a very bright future, but current webOS developers may have to travel through a dark tunnel to get there.

Source: @unwiredben

100 Comments

I recall my excitement when the "right to left swipe" gesture was implemented in one of the early over the air updates. It really made a difference for the devices usability. A webOS device without those things that make it webOS it is just another "Slate". How did that work for you HP?

HP is a failure.. how are they going to take away one of the best things about WebOS hardware.. the F**kin Gesture bar!!!

I dont want hit arrows tabs in order to go forward and back!

HP... why?..

So...much...fail...

We need to initiate a boycott in order for them to see their mistake!

"Bring back the gesture bar OR face desertion from the WebOS fan base"

There is still time HP.. You haven't started mass production on the units yet, add a damn Gesture area!
and get rid of that damn home button, this isnt an iPad!!

No offense, but are you out of your mind?!?

A boycott? On what? You can't even buy a fricken' webOS phone anymore, at least not on the only carrier that matters: Sprint. That's the only place where there are any number of webOS users (I believe ~36).

My comment is not directed at just the lack of a gesture area on the Douchepad, it was the addressing the fact that there was not one single piece of good or interesting news out of yesterday's presentations. Let's rehash, for the sake of ranting:

1) No new Pre for a minimum of six months, possibly almost nine.

2) Let me say that again, we're probably looking at almost NINE MONTHS before anyone gets the phone they wanted.

3) No tablet for a minimum of six and possibly NINE MONTHS.

4) WebOS 2 won't be coming to current phones, as was promised on the Palm website up until the day-before-yesterday.

5) This may not even be that big a deal, because, as it turns out, webOS 2 may not even be long for this world, because the tablet will be running webOS 3, and webOS 3 won’t have a gesture area.

6) Does this mean that the Veer and the Pre3 will be the last phones to support a gesture area? We don't know, but we do know that anyone developing apps for current Pres and Pixies will not be able to run their apps one Enyuck becomes the norm.

7) No prices were announced, but let me tell you, when that phone is finally released it won’t be able to be sold for more than $99. The Pre 3 will *not* be a high-end phone.

8) No carrier support, and almost certainly not Sprint *ever*.

In the meantime, the following events will undoubtedly occur:

1) There will be an iPhone 5.

2) There will be an iPad 2.

3) There will be an Altrix and a Bionic and about 50 other major Android smartphones.

4) There will be a Xoom and 50 other Android slates.

4) There will be wave of new Windows Phones, and a major update to WP7.

5) There will be tons of Windows 7 slates -- and they *will* be better than anticipated. Trust me, I've used it and Windows 7 works great on a slate.

6) There will be new Blackberry smartphones.

7) There will be a Blackberry Playbook (which will HAVE a gesture area).

8) Nokia will be making a major US push (more on that tomorrow).

So, what was the good news? The Pre 3 did look great, but only if it is released ASAP...it won't be.

Thus, there was simply nothing good yesterday. Nothing.

So...much...fail...

I actually almost can't believe it happened.

Rubinstein: "2.0 is coming to current gen devices." Liar.
Apotheker: "We aren't going to announce until we have the hardware in our hands." Liar.

WebOS is dead. HP murdered it. Asses.

Being not in america...just seeing all the devices planned so far for 'summer' release (when is that? End of July?)...and I can't understand the hullabaloo about lack of devices. If there is a device available, but for another phone provider...why don't you just switch? Right now I have a Treo Pro...I asked Palm...can it get WP7? The answer? No...I'll just be getting the Pre3...
but on that note...everybody seems to forget that HP said they planned to release a new device every 2 months...that's 6 devices this year...that means we should hear about 3 more later this year...why the fuss...by year end...there will be options to choose from...
As of now...it's Pre3 for me and a Touchpad...the Touchpad SOLELY because of Kindle...the other benefits are a plus for me...

I agree. This morning I was lying in bed typing a response on the NO GESTURES thread and I was like "EPIC FAIL just doesn't cut it in this case." So I decided to try out APOCALYPTIC FAIL....try it, you'll like it

Summary of HP/Palm's announcement. Quite informative.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI056nhaduk

M.

Nice if it actually made a difference...doesn't fix the problem and it looks like HPalm just don't have an answer.

I can see living without gestures on a tablet, but phone...might as well make it have a Home Button like an idiot Droid interface. Yikes Palm! Sorli...

saw that, video yesterday, only thing that put a smile back on my face.

Every one should view and do a thumps up maybe HP will taek notice that more people liek this than their 1.5 hours of bordem...

Wow, it seems developers are at a standstill right now. This is the stalling period before the webOS brand is rebooted.

was reading old post of people saying "but apps are on hold cause they are waiting for feb 9" and when it's done there would be a flood of apps. lol. I look at the column to the right and it's the same stuff.

let your voice be heard: FIRE HP CEO Leo Apotheker,and HP's mobile division Jon Rubinstein

I've got no beef with Apotheker. It's Rubenstein who's led a once great company with a visionary product into the ground.

NNB

Apotheker promised hardware would be ready to ship when HP made announcements. So I do have beef with him as the Pre3 is still months away.

I do, his word not mine:“HP will stop making announcements for stuff it doesn’t have. When HP makes announcements, it will be getting ready to ship.”, so what happen, and on top of that were is webos 2.o, so know the pre minus can't handle it bs, I love webos, but I can't do anymore, i s2 years wait for nothing, oh I forgot no gesture for the tablet wtf?

I think they were referring to the Pre2 on Verizon....lame.

Man, the more I hear about the fallout from yesterday's event, the more disillusioned and disgruntled I become.

No devices, save for the Pre2. Until they ship, the rest are just vaporware.

No 2.x for current users, no long-promised Flash.

No gesture area on the tablet.

No clear path for developers.

No answers from HP.

That's maybe the most galling. Yesterday HP looked like a noob startup run by marketing majors that dropped out early to cash it in.

Meh.

+1

So when you attended the developer meeting and Enyo was discussed. You left there with the impression that there is "No clear path for developers". LOL

Loll your tongue all you want, but the so-called developers' event last night seems to have been more of a marketing blurb for Enyo. It created more questions than it answered.

Don't forget:

No gyro for Pre3 and Veer.
No replaceable battery for Veer or hPad.
No 4G for any.

"No 4G for any."

THIS!

I still can't figure out why people actually think these announcements are any good at all. This specifically. They're not releasing any decent product until summertime - that's months away! Do you realize just about every manufacturer of smart phones will have 4G models by then? Yea, probably the iphone on Verizon too (iphone 5). This is just the stupidest move ever by HP.

"Make no mistake: the future of webOS is Enyo. That looks like a very bright future, but current webOS developers may have to travel through a dark tunnel to get there."

..or stop traveling through a tunnel with no fruition and start moving on another tunnel that's profitable and makes sense.

goodness HP, you just gave everything to your competitors didn't you?

So, the question out there (the gorilla in the room), is: will the Pre 3 be updated to 3.0 (Enyo)? Before yesterday, I would have said, "almost certainly". Today, I wouldn't count on the sun coming up. I guess it's a good thing my contract isn't up until March of next year; by that time, the dust will have settled. I'm sure as hell not going to buy a Pre 3 (with or without a voucher) until it's PHYSICALLY RUNNING 3.0. A promise from HP now means NOTHING. I don't care how much they swear they'll have 3.0 running on the Pre 3 - I won't believe it until I see it...

Addendum: I don't care if the Pre 3 runs Enyo apps. If they're already moving on to version 3, it sounds like 2.x is already a bastard son. That's why I'll wait until all devices are in parity...

Addendum #2: I also want HP to know I won't be spending another dime on software either. There was already a lot of uncertainty in the developer community; this will just make it worse. If I can't count on a vendor sticking around, why risk buying their apps? We need HP to admit they screwed up, tell us EXACTLY what they're planning, tell us exactly what OS upgrades they're planning, tell us who they're currently partnering with (*cough* NetFlix *cough*), and MAKE EXPLICIT PROMISES (for what that's worth). Amazing. I went from being a die-hard, ardent fan to a discouraged, pissed off customer, all in 24 hours!

Wow. That just made my decision for me. No Pre3 for me, it is the last of it's design and no modern webOS apps are going to run on it if I understand that right. Just the 5000 or so kind of weak sauce mojo apps that never got access to decent apis. (no offense to developers) I really should have gone to android back in June when my upgrade came up. It will be a year or more before we see "real" modern webOS phones is my guess. I may have to change my vote on that poll.

this is a product of all the apple employees?

time to move on forget what happened in the past.

So, can Palm OS be emulated in Classic if Classic is then emulated on webOS 3?

read: screwed again by HP.

It does sound like the entire platform is being rebooted and that the current app ecosystem is being left to fend for itself. More than likely development will just die away in the four or more months that it will take to get new devices. This is not unlike the situation for PalmOS users in the days before webOS debuted except that PalmOS had over 30,000 available apps and wasn't missing the critical ones like an office suite. Grim times.

Months? You don't need a calendar to measure this amount of time, more like a stopwatch!

I believe HP is making a huge mistake not supporting the loyal Palm users. What incentive do they have to purchase another device in the future? I wouldn't after the past day of announcements...

Please, say it isn't so, P|C! I don't wanna go to Android! My upgrade comes next summer. That's a hell of a lot of time. If HP doesn't turn heads by then, I'll be forced to switch. Really, why would they screw their developers to such a degree?

I don't see how any current user can still support webOS. And if I were a developer I would have serious reservations about developing for the platform.

You have to re-learn how to program to develop apps for what is essentially a brand new OS with NO existing user base. How many existing Pre owners will wait for the Pre 3? Some will, but I bet many won't. What will the Pre 3 offer that makes it more compelling than an iP4-5 or an Epic or EVO? I remember when there were only 100 apps. I'm not going to buy another device without a decent existing app base, which the Pre 3 won't have.

I am not inclined to give HP a chance to screw me again. I could have bought an EVO in December for $100 less than it will cost now, but I didn't because HP assured us they had good stuff coming. They made specific promises about taking care of the existing customer base and then tossed it aside without even a we're sorry.

Their actions have an actual tangible negative financial impact on me. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

So... would I be correct in assuming that the gesture area, after the Pre3/Veer, is done for? Say in a year or two (lol) they release new phones that use WebOS 3.0 instead of 2.x.

I want to know this, too. The gesture area is one of the things that makes using webOS so dang intuitive. If they do away with this, I might as well start looking at something that at least has a more coherent future ahead of it.

YEs, this is my question, will webOS 3.x and ENYO mean that the phones will lose the gesture area or that the apps will not take advantage of it?

All I can say is...YECCH!

BRING BACK THE GESTURE AREA YOU IDIOTS!

No gesture area and the finger HP gives developers officially killed webOS!

Time to jump ship. I can just as well buy a great tablet and smartphone right now, where I have to press back completely at the other end of the screen and enjoy loads of apps instead of wait for the Touchpad, that will launch with again an empty app catalog that needs to be build up again from scratch.

C'mon, you can see this coming, the emulated apps will be a disaster to use, I even assume they will keep their original smartphone size on the Touchpad, making you think you're in the card view....

I can see the HP roadmap: webOS 4.0 will be Android with a webOS 3.0 emulator: a web browser.

The only thing webOS 3 distinguishes from Android is the lack of apps...

There will be no emulated apps.

webOS is dead. 3.0 is actually 1.0 of the next OS, sharing a name only. It's like WP7. 7 what?

Palm is dead and HP is starting over. Sorry that I won't be there with them.

Or get the playbook coming in a few months, at least that still works with you BB if you have one. This all is a huge disappointment and the stupid decisions that are being made at HP. STUPID! Great way to burn your support bridges with your fans HP. No gestures, no upgrade path, no nothing... great announcement and plans for the future, but you are being like a "DROID" that follows Apple. Guess either wait till Enyo becomes mature enough to be released on products and have great support for the Dev community and buy it 3 years later or maybe never, or become like the rest, a "DROID" and everything else out. But maybe, a nokia and microsoft partner product will be a steller one... only time will tell.

I've been complaining all day about the events of yesterday. I guess it is time to move on.

My biggest gripe is not so much that the Pre(-) & Pre(+) will not receive any OTA updates, but that there does not appear to be any firm timeframe for when & where you will be able to buy the new phones. If there were already options to upgrade, the taste would not be so bitter (although my ass would still be sore).

Did anyone really assume the Apps would run natively on the tablet? In 1024x768? I can't believe! And what does this has to do with the phones?They run a different os version. Strange comments around here...

Yes! webOS was touted as being web-based, so it was device and OS independent! We repeatedly heard that apps would automatically resize to fit the display. I didn't expect the apps to look exactly the same running on a tablet, but I also didn't expect HP to get rid of the gesture area. What was the precipitating, oh-my-god-we-have-to-change-it! event that forced them to get rid of it? More stupidity. I don't think Android or iOS are any better than webOS at this point, but I'm beginning to be really disappointed in HP/Palm for the first time since buying my phone.

+1

Of course we did because that's the whole point of a Web-based application system.

Web pages work great on my huge monitor, my medium laptop screen, and on my Pre...the Web is scalable.

This is so much fail I almost can't believe it.

I am trying to figure out if there was *any* good news yesterday *at all*.

Bottom line, the silence was better than this. At least I can see clearly now that believing in HPalm was an error. No one can doubt that now.

If I want to push buttons, then I might as well jump to Android. The gestures are one of the best features of webOS.

i saw the veer already 2 weeks ahead of the event. i know a guy working for an operator here in europe. when i saw the pics i first thoght, this is the pre 2 with hp labels. then the guy told me the actual size and i was so disappointed. i really expected them to come out with something to battle the htc, samsung, apple phones... a touchscreen on such a small device doesnt make sense. i own a pre plus and even that is sometimes too small for gaming and stuff. i really dont know if the veer will sell. they should've rahter released a pixi with decent performance. i guess the candy bar with more horse power would still be a desirable format. the only positive sign is that european mnos got veers for testing. so maybe they will release it with much more scale than the pre 2.

anyways, i hope they release the pre3 sooner than later. otherwise this will end up in a disaster.

the touchpad seems to be cool. i hope they manage to get developers on board...

This is just a giant step backwards. While during the demos I noticed that most of the apps could be navigated without the use of a back button, not all of them could. In the photos app, after viewing a full-screen photo, you need some way to "go back" and back buttons are so beneath webOS.

In other words, I can find no redeeming quality to removing gestures. None at all, and I'm sure most agree. Hope HP reconsiders.

By the way, while most probably don't use it, I love the quick launch wave gesture. Guess that's not coming back either...

"That's one small step backwards for HP, one giant leap backwards for WebOS"

"Houston (HP) - we have a problem."

Please tell me the gesture area won't disappear after the Veer and Pre 3... Total deal breaker for me...

JoshM last night said it will disappear.
Agreed, deal breaker for me too, i think that webOS in the future will become like android in the past. Clunky, unintuitive.
And Mattias is already making Android like webOS was in the past -- gestures and all. Sounds like it'll beAndroid FTW after all.. :(

if android added gestures instead of their ridiculous 4 face buttons and added some sort of card like multi-tasking, then I would jump ship sooo QUICK!

HP, I hope you know you ruined WebOS.. Harware and Software was once ONE.. then HP came in and said lets put webos on a ipad.. :Roll:

Stupidly simple solution that I really hope someone at HP is smart enough for.. When in a non-Enyo app, just have a 15 pixel tall black bar at whatever is the bottom of the device in that orientation. Similar to the rounded off corners on the Pre, it'd blend in enough with the hardware that you really wouldn't be able to tell it's not a gesture area. Then, when you switch to an Enyo app, that same area can slide down and away, similar to when you close a notification now.

There's absolutely no reason I can think of that this would have to use actual buttons and not be able to continue with the paradigm they already set.

Reason. Thank you.

to be honest I don't see why they don't do this for all their form factors...the gesture area takes up screen real-estate. Why not extend the screen to overlap the gesture area. You can make it black or w/e when you're in normal phone/gresture mode. and then...when you want to watch a full screen anything *poof* gesture area is now screen area. Your screen just got a whole lot bigger and you still get to keep the gesture area. Almost the entire face of the phone could be screen, wouldn't that be magical?

No clear path means no support from me. Was hoping HP would have some good cloud announcements yesterday, but I guess I'll need to start moving my data completely off Palm (where it's been for the last 12 years). WebOS never did achieve all the (basic) functions of PalmOS and this seems to show it never will.

After seeing the awesome vision HP revealed yesterday, I'm sorry to say webOS fans are really starting to annoy me. You guys are the same ones that wanted HTC to own webOS. What a nightmare that would have been.

And this isn't???

Well I'm not very smart, can you tell me the vision?

Does the 'vision' involve taking away one of the KEY things that makes webOS unique, intuitive gesture based navigation? Even iOS is moving towards this, and so is BlackBerry and their QNX/Playbook

To me it seems that HP is more concerned with creating interoperability among multiple devices with little consideration to the actual UI. They are targeting Enterprise class customers and could care less about the casual user. Android & iOS have already won that race. They do not care about the number of apps as long as they can have an offering of core apps that will appeal to business. Just my opinion.

Enterprise people don't like being burned the same way consumers don't. They won't adopt a system that will change a year later and have to repurchase and re-implement their polices etc to their devices and there's no talk of security on these devices either or the corporate management of them like what BB's have.

I agree 100%. I'm just saying they are the target market for HP. I didn't say that HP was marketing effectively to them.

PAAAAALLLLLLLMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!! MAKE SURE YOUR WEBOS SUPER-TABLET HAS A GESTURE AREAAAAAAAA!!!

I'm not sure they can hear you from the great beyond. Try contacting HPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!! instead. :-)

Everyone of you complaining about...everything, must not have read the entire post:

"Make no mistake: the future of webOS is Enyo. That looks like a very bright future..."

HP believes in Enyo. They believe it is the future. They are obviously nudging/pushing the developers to that platform.

You all are acting like there will never be an app developed for webOS again--ridiculous. If you watched the presentation, there were NUMEROUS advantages to Enyo. The transition and change is never easy.

Umm...my problem IS that Enyo is the future of webOS since Enyo is gestureless and hence a step backwards as a UI.

dark tunnels all around

When I watched the demo on youtube, my thoughts went like this:

-"Why does he press the centre of the gesture area -- that's so oldschool compared to swiping"

-"The way he's interfacing with the Tablet seems so unnatural. You'd think the Director of Product development would be better with gestures"

-"Why doesn't the gesture area dynamically shift sides (to the bottom) depending on the Tablet orientation --> that's just awkward!"

-"*@!& --> That's a button he's pressing! What a horrible thing to do to a WebOS device"

Every time I pick up an iPhone, I get frustrated that there's no up-swipe into card view. I always hoped the day would come where WebOS gestures would be wider-spread and enjoyed by more.

The thought of a gesture-free WebOS device -- zero interest for me.

Since we're getting all of this great news from HP --> I wonder if WebOS 3.x will ship with no Konami code or equivalent Developer access!

+1

+1...

+1000

This is probably also the reason why we won't see the Pre3 for months. They'll try to get developers to develop apps before people get their hands on it. Once they buy it they'll realize HP likely closed the door on developer access!

+2

+1

+1E99

+1 "The thought of a gesture-free WebOS device -- zero interest for me." same here :(

The definition of "native code" seems pretty murky at best anyway. It's not as if Mojo apps were compiled to machine code, and it's not as if there's a hardware architecture change (like running 68K code on ARM chips).

"Native UI" probably would be more apt, though.

Actually, webOS uses V8 under the hood, so all that JavaScript is compiled to machine code. I agree that "native UI" makes more sense in this case.

IT IS SO SIMPLE, BEN! When you open up a legacy app on a tablet, a virtual swipe bar should appear in the bottom of the screen. DONE!

And no I am not a developer, and I did not stay at any type of Holiday Inn last night!!!

My Enyo issue boils down to a simple question (and this is not a bash): Why would I take the time to unlearn Mojo and learn Enyo instead of unlearning Mojo and learning Android SDK or iOS SDK?

bingo! and let's not forget with Android or iOS, at least you'll have a much larger user base!

Wondering about carriers? Here's a good guess as to what may occur:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2379969,00.asp

And it's more awful news in my opinion.

They did say the Veer was gonna be a GSM-only phone so how is that surprising? Not to mention that evidence was already found that the US carriers for the Pre3 were gonna be VZW and AT&T

It's news that us Sprint users are screwed. It's that simple.

How do they expect to create a WebOS ecosystem with one, maybe two carriers? It's very narrow thinking destined to fail.

Bye all, this is my last post here. I've joined Android Central and will be getting a new phone this weekend. We've had upgrades available for a few months now. Time to use them.

Thanks Homebrew guys and gals, you made my phone useable. You are awesome.

Anyone know how to delete your profile on here?!

give me back my gesture bar!!!!!!!

So..
Android's getting a gesture area.
Blackberry's got a gesture area (in its tablet! no less)
iOS 4.3's getting gestures

WP7 has some sort of gestures (but don't think it's of the same caliber..)

Anybody who says you can't do gestures on difference form factors..? Get a clue.
(Playbook is a tablet. Apple's Magic Trackpad on its desktops.. it's possible EVERYWHERE!)

HP.. FTL? (contrasting with BOL's subject line yesterday)

wow. amazing. every other manufacturer is getting gesture areas and hp is losing it. very much like they're going against everything they should've done.

That's what happens when u kill a visionary, pioneering brand and make it a dumb, tamed part of a massive organization with no clue about innovation.

HP, are you listening?? Let Palm WebOS live and proceed on its innovative path. Give it funds, market it better, but don't try to influence its technology, coz its "being ahead" is the only reason why webOS still has some (few) supporters!

We are the development community.. and we can't support the direction you are taking.

where is releasemypre when you need him!!!!

RIM and Apple are copying the gestures in their latest tablet OS. When APPLE copies you you KNOW you're doing something right! So HP's response is to do away with the gesture area?

WHAT. THE. FUCK.

Ive had the pre- since June 6th 2009. If the Pre3 came out today for $150 or so on Sprint I would stick with it, but because it's not coming out until the summer and because my contract ends and because the Pre3 will feel "old" to me by then I will have to consider jumping on my roomates' family VZW plan and taking a look at the iPhone 5. I know it's vaporware but it's pretty safe to assume it will have better hardware specs, apps, etc than the Pre3. The VERY hypothetical payment system with the phone is interesting enough. Never even owned an iphone and have been a Pre/webOS evangelizier (sp?) but the Pre3 specs (come summer) will feel underwhelming....and I doubt it's coming to Sprint as HPPalm seems VZW-happy lately.

A window with back-forward buttons??
Are they kidding??!!

What's the big deal with dedicating a specific area of the display to interpret standardized gestures??

Really, is it THAT difficult??

Who in the hell could eveh have such an idea? Removing a well established and very appreciated feature of webOS and FURTHERMORE lose compatibility with former apps (aka the FEW and ONLY apps available when webOS3 will be launched)??

Insanity.. For the first time I'm considering to finally give up on WebOS. Not for this feature only, of course, but for the change of steering this represents, and the weak hope it leaves up for the future.

It seems THIS webOS won't be the "Palm webOS" which was definitely worth promoting, fighting for, evangelizing for.

With Sprint's new fees and reduction of their loyalty program I recently looked into how AT&T and Verizon compare. Sprint still wins, but not by much. I will not be using my early upgrade and will be just waiting for my contract to end in late July. Then (and I can't believe I'm going to say this), I'll have to take a look at the iPhone. UGH.

Just bring back the gestures please!

What a mess. I am pretty well shocked that HP has marched in to such a hornets nest. The way in which they've handled themselves, especially in comparison to their competitors is truly appalling. This is how they intend to encourage development for, wait, what is the platform now? Web OS 2 legacy emulator on top of something which will be ready in coming months? What? OS 2 is being supported on what? I mean, what?

Ah! All these positive comments! What a joy to read up.

A tablet is not a smart phone. The gesture area makes a lot of sense on a phone; never more than a few inches away, you don't even need to move your hand, just your fingers. But a gesture area that is 9" from the place you are working on the screen?

Gestures are still a good idea for a tablet, but you should find a way to use them anywhere on the screen (I think I read that Apple just patented a way to do that).

Sure, why not?

There's plenty of ways.. e.g. you may consider multiple touch gestures (sliding 3 fingers towards the left or towards the right, on any area of the screen... while you keep normal 1-finger slide for normal scrolling effects)

Just my two cents after 10 seconds reflection, but still much better than "back" and "forward" buttons on an emulation window... -_^

Why they don't just F-ing put a gesture area on the touchpad...