Digitimes: HP to produce 100,000-200,000 TouchPads to clear out supplier inventories | webOS Nation
 
 

Digitimes: HP to produce 100,000-200,000 TouchPads to clear out supplier inventories 142

by Derek Kessler Mon, 05 Sep 2011 5:27 pm EDT

We’ve already heard directly from HP that they intend to build more TouchPads to satisfy demand, but we’ve suspected from the start that there were other forces at play here. True to form, Digitimes claims to have the details, stating that HP’s plan is for the second wave of TouchPads to land in late October (and you thought it was outdated when it launched in July), with somewhere between 100,000 and 200,000 units to be produced.

The line about unfulfilled demand is only part of the story – HP also has to deal with parts suppliers who were stuck in a lurch when HP cancelled the TouchPad, not to mention the financial consequences of breaking their order contracts with said suppliers. We suspect HP went back to the ledgers and figured it’d cost less to finish building what they contracted for and sell it at a loss than to deal with the contract termination fees and ill will that would come from sticking their suppliers with piles of custom TouchPad parts.

There’s another interesting note in the Digitimes story: up to this point, HP had apparently already taken delivery of 800,000-900,000 TouchPads. Which means that by the time all is said and done, HP will have managed to build a userbase numbering around one million. While we don’t have the sales figures for all Android manufacturers available, we’re willing to bet that’s more than enough for webOS to claim the number two spot in the tablet market. Granted, that’s a far cry from the tens of millions of iPads Apple has managed to sell, but number two isn’t a bad place to be (even if you are giving up on the race).

Source: Digitimes

Category:

142 Comments

I hope I can finally get one...

Your wish for one bring up something I've been curious about: How many people planned all along to get one sometime, like when they could get the money together? I planned to get one probably in October, then the QVC deal with installments made it feasible to go ahead in July (still waiting for the 2nd price match from then, btw). But likely few that planned to buy later even heard of that deal. My point is that HP surely underestimated the long-term viability of the TouchPad and jumped to the wrong conclusion way to early. I think I'll start a forum thread asking how many that got it at firesale price had planned to get one within the next few months anyway.

I don't think that they estimated the long-term viability at all.

It was the plan of Apoteker the whole time. The problem was that even when it was in the "plans" for a long time, the announce was "planned" badly

Of course they did. HP was almost criminally short-sighted when they did this.

I'm sure a significant number of webOS users were in the same position I was: planning to get a touchpad, but had allocated my new-gadget-fund to the Pre3. Once I had the Pre3, a TouchPad was next.

I'm betting even many non-webOS users were looking towards the Pre3 ahead of the touchpad.

HP had the full ecosystem ready to go... they should have released it all, then made a decision based on those results.

I thought of buying a Touchpad first - which I did - and then replacing my Pre(-) in October.

Those suits in the companies need to do a reality check from time to time, wich means living an ordinary life with a maximum of 60 to 80 Euros to spent per week for food and leisure.

Their reality looks like this: "Our target audience has an average income of maybe 2000 Euros per month. So there's enough money to buy at least one of our products every two month."

Haha, very funny. I live in a rented flat that costs about one third of what I earn. With all the costs for living, insurances, retirement arrangements, at the end of the month I'm quite happy if I can save 250 Euros. Not to think about those little every-day tragedies that might happen. Fridge or Touchpad? Well, I take the fridge and leave the Gadgets for sometime later.

In the end this complete lack of reality affects not only the price, but also quality and availability.

HP said "We did this, because our share holders weren't happy with what we were doing there."

Yeah, great. I hope they are happy, now.

yes reality sucks quite often in the money department. most californians pay 50% of income on rent/house payment. im in that 50% boat myself :(

we got the first tp when the QVC deal came through, this was aided by the fact that our new phone budget was handled with the purchase of .01 Veers

Personally I was waiting for the 7" version to be released, so I could compare the two side by side. I was still committed to WebOS at the time, I was just holding out for a bit.

yes, that too. I also wanted to have a look at the 7" touchpad. so for me it was:

1. Get Pre3.
2. Choose between 7" TouchPad and 9.7" TouchPad

HP screwed the pooch right before step 1. Thanks HP.

I had bought one for full price at the time and planned on buying another once I got the Pre 3

Heres a thought people, everyone BUYS a few shares in HP, then a movement starts, trust me this would work if everyone did it, then HP executives become awhere of these people and the facdt that they will turn up at the annaul general meeting of the company, trust me they dont want that happening, not that you can do anything, butthe drama of geeks asking questions even if only briefly would be a pain. Someone check into the rules a these meetings. I m telling you the very thought will scare the german.

I was actually saving up for a Pre3 first then Touchpad as an xmas gift to myself :'(

yes, but how are they going to sell them?

Who cares? There's better tablets out there that are actually supported.

webOS tablets? See, that was one of it's selling points to many.

WebOS is actually the dealbreaker though. The hardware is the selling point.

Might be better if half of them weren't on eBay

The HP cloud is big. It looks like big fluffy $ signs. And some wonder why HP wanted to keep control of WebOS, the Apps and the other services.

Even though this was accidental, HP has some momentum now with the huge new webOS user base. This momentum will be squandered if HP doesn't capitalize on it very soon with the announcement of new hardware or a hardware partner. Why not release the Pre 3 stateside? How hard could it be to design and release a 4" slab phone and a new candybar phone? After all, HTC releases upwards of 50 phones annually.

They probably didn't manufacture the US Pre3 (not in volume anyway - likely cancelled production in time).

Releasing any phone is hard when you just publicly declared that you shut down that business.

Correcto. Once you declare that you wont be supporting any more webos hardware, its kind of hard to sell a phone. And even if you claim to have renew interest in hardware, its a kick to confidence of carriers to even consider carrying your phone.
What I really want is for them to support the phones. Another has stated before, why not release a penta-radio and offer it off contract at a good price. I dont know if its even possible and keep up with battery or whatnot but its a nice thought.

There's talk of Verizon having them and getting ready to release them come the 18th of September. While this could have been the scheduled release date before all this happened, there is no way there wasn't any Verizon versions created.

They need a few months worth of production to build a large enough stock to support a national launch so by that logic, there are some out there.

If that was true, it would be really nice to still be able to get a Pre3. I just bought a Pre2 on Verizon (figuring I better upgrade my Pre Plus before webOS phones don't exist anymore), and I'd still get the Pre3 if it was offered.

that has to be a pipe dream... but hey, I'll take a hit

puff, puff, pass

can you post the link to this?

if this were true, and I'm not saying it is, considering what HP did for retailers with a massive flock of people and attention their outlets, Verizon would be very smart to introduce these phones in the market with HP, even though they will be discontinued. Verizon hasn't had long lines outside their doors waiting for a phone in a while. This would be great publicity for them as well as HP. Remember supply and demand? Its what apple thrives on.

Did Verizon have long lines out their door for the iPhone when it came out in January? I'm not sure, but I think the sales were good, but not lines out the door good...am I remembering correctly, of did I stand too close to the pipe dream fumes that someone mentioned a few posts back?

"There's talk of Verizon having them and getting ready to release them come the 18th of September. "

It's a triple secret, quadruple soft release! No part number in the VZ system. No update to Cellebrite. No training for employees. No promo materials ordered. No listing on the release schedule. And they're going to hold the $49 Pre2 price past the release date, so that no body will be suspicious why VZ is trying to liquidate their existing half-warehouse of Pre2's and guess they're coming out with a phone that HP said they killed (and finally fulfilled a promise!) and instantly obsoletes the best WebOS phone in North America.

Actually, considering where we've been, that does sound very HP like.

Liveliest dead platform ever.

Sad that this will such a short afterlife.

The whole situation is insane.

yes... This IS insane, there's not enough "idiots" one could put in a post, to make justice to megaidiots from HP's management. Maybe we should settle for "megaidiot", when describing them.

This whole webOS affair by HP is a fecking nightmare, and they really SHOULD be dragged to a court for what they did. Only cannot imagine how.

This amount of stupidity and mismanagement should be punishable by law, it should.

old news, new amazon tablet will be for 250 dollars, WebOS doesnt stand a chance at 250 even now.

they'll stand a chance at 99$ as we saw before.

I sure as heck am planning to get a Touchpad. Android is barely holding onto me as a Smartphone customer. WebOS is getting me as a Tablet customer.

Agree. When I'm forced to buy a new phone or tablet, I'll go with MS unless they haven't cracked at least 10 percent of the market. On the other hand, I love Amazon, so their offerings may be just the ticket.

Not willing to put up with this nonsense anymore.

You're kidding yourself if you believe the Amazon tablet will be able to do nearly as many things as the touchpad.

If Amazon is selling it for $250, you can be assured that the tech within is worth less. Not the case with the touchpad...

Considering how limited the Touchpad is, that's saying something. I don't think that will be the case though.

The Amazon tablet has been described as a "Kindle competitor, not an iPad killer." It'll die a slow death.

The Amazon Tablet will have a huge Amazonian overlay with Android beneath it, and we are not talking 3.x, but likely 2.2 or less. Unless it has great hardware, and the ability to be fully rooted, it is no threat what so ever. This Tablet will be nothing more than a affordable Nook.

Oh, yeah, termination fees. That totally makes sense.

Sad news is that it means no one else is looking to buy out those contracts, meaning any new hardware would be someone else's design.

Live or not, short afterlife or not, bad "bla, bla, blas" or not, I just know one thing:

"- Meeee... wants...! :-D "

Sorry if you don't wanna... :-P

But now... hummm... 100.000 are too much... I just wanna one!! :-))))

Best Regards... B)

What about TouchPad Go and Pre 3 parts?

Maybe you can negotiate with Invetec to have them sell you the 100,000 to 2000,000 already in the pipeline. Then sell them on eBay.

Probably aren't that many sitting around in comparison.

I'm not exactly sure what HP is trying to do here. If they wanted to keep webOS so badly, yet they don't want to make devices that use it, why did they go through every possible effort to kill webOS's marketability to any prospective licensee?

If the hardware arm of the webOS GBU is tagging along with the Personal Systems Group to be spun off, then why was it at all necessary to immediately kill production of webOS devices before any sort of deal was even thought about?

The fact that there's so much interest in webOS now was a complete accident on HP's part simply because they inadvertently failed at failing. But if it's true that HP is seriously considering licensing this platform, why are they trying to halt its growth and momentum before they can hand off the reins to someone more responsible?

My God...

Because they can’t see the innovation for the spread sheets

I see what you did there...that was funny :D

The consumer interest only showed up when the price hit 33% of their production cost. The Palm hardware group is as good as already dismissed, watch the news. And WebOS is less ready for licensing, than it was ready to run on their own hardware. Game is over.

BZZZZT...!!! '"Sorry, troll again"

When the $299\$399 TPad sale was going on, the sales rocketed to #2 on Amazon and immediately was ranked highest in reviews of ALL tablets on Amazon.

So the facts fly in the face of your (typical) trolling statements. The interest was there and there are plenty of threads with historical evidence of that.

No. The first day of the big sale, they spiked up for a day. After that, they free-falled/freefell down to the lowest they'd ever been. Suspicion is, "someone" bought a few dozen to spice the totals for a brief period. After that, they began a descent to record low levels.

A non-troll would ask, "If Staples has them on sale and amazon has one of the higher prices out there, who-the-f is buying them at the higher price with Amazon". Reality struck the day after.

So, take your petty "troll" finger pointing and think things out.

I believe you are somewhat wrong. There was a lull for a few days because everyone tried to find a way to get one from Staples, or finagle that price from other sellers. So the interest in getting one went up and stayed up, but the availability from Staples was very limited. Then, when the $99 firesale happened...global thermonuclear meltdown!

So a bunch of folks were fired up to buy one for $200 off, effectively making the costs $299 and $399. Then most of the techno world became very interested in getting 'a tablet' for $99.

So, like most things [not all] in life, the reality is somewhere between two 'extreme' points of view. Sometimes it's closer to one view than the other...but you can usually expect it to be somewhere in there.

You probably should have stated your beliefs when I was posting updates and observations. But your drive-by snarkings are always appreciated.

You're right--consumers became interested (except us webOS freaks) only when the price was substantially reduced. I think had HP known that there would be such a huge buying frenzy for the TouchPad, they would have introduced it at a much lower cost. Instead of $400 and $500 maybe $40-50 above their cost to make the devices.

If HP was smart, it could have made huge inroads into the iPad market, on price alone. By all accounts, the consensus is that webOS, in many areas beats all other OS's, hands down. So acceptance of webOS is not an issue--price is (or was).

Obviously, HP doesn't want to do the heavy lifting necessary to gain market share because it has stockholders it must answer to. The million dollar question is--actually, $1.2B--are there any mobile device manufacturers willing to buy or license webOS, given that the world's largest PC manufacturer has thrown in the towel on their mobile devices only a few months after entry into the market with their new devices?

I'm sadden that HP made the decision it has to kill webOS mobile devices, because I feel that in doing so, they also killed webOS as a viable mobile OS.

HP is trying to make money. That's their job. The only people that think it's smart to sell tablets at a loss are on this website. there are facts here.

at full price nobody wanted it.
at 99 bucks its a loss and people would buy it.

that's the problem nobody will manufacture profitless products unless there is certainty that it will turn profitable soon. That's not their. People need to be realistic. Nobody wanted a full price touchpad and that's 100% of it's problem.

I was questioning why they started the firesale in the first place.

They did not do the same for their PCs, halting all production and selling all of their Beats Audio enabled laptops for a song. No, that part was to be spun off. Considering that the webOS hardware team was to be put to the Personal Systems Group anyway, if they wanted to keep webOS software around in the first place, why did they try so hard to make it out as a flop?

The *day* before HP announced their decisions, CNET reported the HP Touchpad as having a distant second to the iPad in mindshare, well ahead of any one Android tablet device, merely a month and a half after its introduction. There was very real interest in the Touchpad and curiosity forming around this barely hatched piece of hardware.

What HP did was more or less trying as hard as possible to "kill webOS dead in its tracks" and they simply screwed that up as well.

"HP is trying to make money," sure, but the investors evidently weren't impressed with HP's execs not having any clue about what's even happening.

Oh well, at least I scored a $150 32GB Touchpad so perhaps I shouldn't complain.

The whole fire-sale is a mystery. All it did was f-over their valued retail partners. It created buzz, but the program was dead. I think they had a sale at 200/250 with nearly the same results and recuping much of their money. It was odd, it was chaotic and it seemed more panic than practical.

I gather, they thought it would take a while through normal channels at the fire-sale pricing and they wanted it over before the next quarter ended. But Fat-Wallet got a whiff of the deal and the rest is probably their handiwork. They get rabbid when a deal like this comes along and the population of Touchpads on Ebay is their signature. I dont think HP is that insightful about the dark side of internet commerce. Same way they seemed oblivious to the power of consumer oriented social-media sites.

Did you listen to the earnings call? They started the firesale because nobody would buy it at even discounted prices. The touchpad was losing them tons, 332 million per quarter. That's why it was discontinued.

Investors don't give a **** about webos. they were mad because they think hp overpaid for autonomy that cost 80% of HP's cash reserves and they question the wisdom of spinning off a department that consists of 1/3 of revenue even if it's profits are minimal and gradually declining never to return to the pcs.

But you don't see investors anywhere saying, "HP should have kept losing $332 million per quarter from PSG on webos alone." that is purely people on precentral that are ignoring numerical facts. Investors want earnings of PSG to grow not decline. And Webos made it decline. The conference call made clear continueing to make webos phones would make that profit decline even worse next quarter. No, none, nobody that was an investor in HP wanted that. So it's not investors crying over webos. That's precentral people. Investors are crying over an overpriced autonomy.

At $399, at $299 not enough people wanted a touchpad and at $99 it's will bankrupt the PSG to keep going because the loses would be quarters away from exceeding their profits.

All this "new interest" it doesn't exist at a sustainable price point. I say HP is trying to make money because it's purely a business calculation for them. Its not for anyone on precentral. And that's how most consumer electronics work. Where you say "what are they doing?" They will just respond, "do the math. It doesn't make business sense."

and truth is if it did you'd have companies leaping for webos. They just aren't.

That only supports my original point of why hold on to webOS? It's no good without devices and no one is going to license it if they shout at the top of their lungs how bad it was for their bottom line.

If they thought webOS software was worth keeping I don't see why they went about things the way they did.

It's an earnings call. It's the law.
There are laws against misrepresentations by officers of the company. They are required to explain where their dismal quarter comes from to shareholders. And shareholders expect it. To think there is a world where they can get away with losing $332 million from a department and can say nothing just shows how out of touch with the reality of how an earnings call works and what's required in a real business.

Check the facts. Touchpads were colossally failing to the point where best buy wanted to return them, they had dropped the price already several times, and concluded they needed to cancel the product. And you want them to say nothing on an earnings call? That is naive beyond belief. They have to explain why it lost and why they won't continue. it's part of their fiduciary duty to shareholders. To offer no explanation to investors? That's not how an earnings call works. And quarterly reports have a forward looking statements and a section where companies are required to reveal things in the future that are potentially going to hurt the company. They have to say what they said. That it costs way too much to keep going with no guarantee of a profitable return. that's business.

you think it's this valuable thing that everyone wants. The problem is the market does not. The potential buyers do not. Samsung said "never." That's the current state of webos.

Its a fallacy that HP ruined webos. People didn't buy it in huge numbers on a pre, a pre plus, a pixi, a veer, a touchpad. nobody wanted one until it was 99 bucks. and that's the problem. It only had traction at an unsustainable price.

The Touchpad hasn't even been out a for single quarter, of course the R&D alone is going to outweigh the fact that most of that time was without any products.

That still doesn't answer the question of why they wanted to keep webOS.

HP is very impressed by themselves. The hardware, was nothing innovative. WebOS has a few elements that are ahead of their time. HP slightly embellished WebOS's UI in the last year and it continues to be critically acclaimed. That's worth something to HP. Is it worth anything to the industry? We'll have to see, and it wont take long.

I imagine HP is like that guy that makes his first custom car. Pays too much for a rusting non-classic hulk, pays too much to have rust removed, pays to much to rebuild and customize, and then wants to sell if for a 25% premium over costs.

I'm sorry Leo, I don't want a $120,000 '89 Camaro with green anodized wheels. Will you take thirty cents on the dollar?

SnotBoogie, you're clueless.

What is he wrong about?

exactly. zero. i'm an investor, a businessman, and i listened to the call.

The problem with the original Pre was the build quality, and the small screen size. The Pre Plus fixed most of the quality issues, but a lack of advertising, both by carriers and Palm itself, PLUS the fact that a 3.2 inch screen seemed small compared to the 3.7 inch and larger screen sizes you were seeing from slab phones caused a good chunk of the low sales of the Pre Plus(not to mention 600MHz processor was "old" once the iPhone 4 came out).

So, fast forward to the HP branded devices era. The Veer was NEVER going to sell in large numbers, and a tablet without a solid ecosystem to support it(meaning mainstream, not niche phone) was also doomed.

Now, you don't remember how Staples had that $300 weekend sale, but that price was NOT being offered by Best Buy, and it also was not a "new low price", it was just a weekend sale. During the summer, not everyone is free on the weekends to go out shopping, and many are away on vacation and are not looking to buy new toys.

HP screwed up in the order that they released products. First should have been the Pre 3, and in April/May, with solid advertising, it had a chance. It would have also drawn people to the ecosystem, and the idea of Touch to Share would have brought many people who are looking for productivity. Then, the Touchpad, with the Pre 3 to help, would have sold decently at $400 for the 16GB model and $500 for the 32GB model.

Again, HP screwed up, and they couldn't figure out how badly they screwed up because you had a lot of bad decisions thrown around with no one at HP even paying attention.

HP should have focused on phones and let everybody blow $500 on a droid tablet. Then when the market was ready for a tablet, they'd get the Touchpad as a natural extension of their COMPLETED AND FUNCTIONALLY SUPERIOR WEBOS PHONE and be blown away that such a smooth UI could be applied to a tablet.

Or they could have ignored the phones, released an incomplete tablet and then rushed into laptops. Ooops...Pencils have erasures, history doesn't.

BS. about what/ You've offered nothing constructive.

People expect public companies to sell fancy new gadgets at below cost. There is no free lunch.

But if they sold the TP at or around cost, they would have been able to at least gain market share and make some money off apps and accessories. HP has screwed this up at every turn. They should have launched July 1st at $299 and $349. Compared to iPad and Android tablet prices, they would have sold. Also, they needed more advertising and a bigger "launch". They also needed to do more to get app developers writing webOS apps before launch. Doing a "soft" launch with no real plan and pricing it the same as iPad was FATAL!

This is the best line ever "...because they inadvertently failed at failing."

HP is so totally and chaotically lost right now, they can't even fail right.

Hp is so stupid.
Does anyone in that company have a brain? How about if you put some of their leadership together, when added up would it equate to a collective whole brain? Doesn’t look like it. I’ll say it again hp, I don’t want webOS on my fridge or my printer or my dryer, though that might be nice later on, but I want it on my new 4"+ smart phone! We warned you and warned you that you needed to start off with an awesome handset/smart phone not a tablet! How hard is that to comPrehend? Course you higher ups don’t check this blog or at least listen to us do you?

This really begs the question... What of the TouchPad Go??
If HP decided to produce TouchPad's in order to avoid law suits and fees related to hardware the suppliers had stock of, what about the 7" TouchPad Go and it's hardware (enough to make 100k) sitting on supplier shelves?

Replace the HP logo with a PSG logo and release it. Tell everyone that it's a soft launch product for the Personal Systems Group the spin-off of which will be completed in a year. Every two months, release a new product with the PSG logo, the Pre 3, uncancel the slab webOS phone, a webOS netbook, and a Windows laptop with a webOS skin and Touch to Share.

Just as a caution, do you know how long the Newton platform survived after Apple deep-sixed it? There are still developers writing for it, and decent Newtons are commanding good prices..

...on eBay. The Newton was never close to becoming a mainstream platform. I have no idea how I would even begin to get back into the Newton platform if I wanted to do so. While the devotion of the webOS community amazes me, I would be surprised if it escaped this fate....

Flood the market with the Touchpad so non-geeks who'll love its simplicity and functionality outnumber those willing to pay $500 or more for Angry Birds and other apps they rarely use.

All the average schmo wants is to email, surf the web, play games, view movies and youtube and create documents.

Give 'em something that's of higher quality than the crappy $250 Viewsonic and cheaper than Ipad or Galaxy and you'll drive both to their knees.

I'm an average schmo. I know of what I speak. The Touchpad has far exceeded my expectations and does even more than I need it to. I paid $260 for it (could've had it for $149 but I hesitated too long).

At $300 it'd still have been a steal.

they dropped them to around 299 didn't they? They didn't sell nearly enough. And still that's only breaking even.

The price went down for one weekend sale that the general public was not aware of, and that was only from Staples. If it was a global price at $300 and leaving it at that level, they would have sold out quickly without the fire sale.

The big thing is this, HP didn't give the Touchpad much time, a month and a half is NOTHING, and there was no mainstream phone like the Pre 3 to help push sales(Touch to Share would have helped Touchpad sales).

The "general public" doesn't even know what a touchpad is. Even people on the palmcast said the touchpad was not a good enough product so what was gonna make it all of a sudden take off? I mean they said the same thing about the pre, pixi, pre plus, pre 2, veer. it never happened. They never all of a sudden caught fire. Sorry, it wasn't going to all of a sudden start selling well. That's just wishful thinking.

And it was losing HP millions. it's easy to not care about that if you're just a guy on a tech blog but HP is about earnings. And they clearly said in the call that if they gave it time they were on course to lose even more then the prior quarter.

So you're just wrong with the "they didn't give it time." HP clearly said that more time would have resulted in a bigger loss not more profits.

That's from the CFO on the earnings call. Not some blogger, or engadget, or gizmodo, or the precentral boards. That's from the Chief Financial officer of HP saying more time would not have resulted in more profits from the touchpad. And you add onto that the expense of trying to move a Pre 3 that nobody outside of these boards really wants. I know people love the Pre 3 but that's only on precentral. It was never gonna be a huge seller

i know people here don't like to deal with the truth but that's it. More time only meant more losses for HP and PSG.

Do you seriously believe that the iPad would have sold well if the iPhone were not out there and hyped beyond belief? The Touchpad didn't sell well because there was no Pre 3 that was PUSHED by sales people to get people into the WebOS ecosystem. HP should have had one employee per Best Buy store to properly sell the product, and there should have been banners all over the place talking about the Pre 3, and Touchpad. There was NO sales push, no matter that there was supposed to be a big push to sell them.

Yes, there were some TV commercials, but sales people were not pushing the product, which is the big reason for the Pre Plus not getting more sales as well. You need sales people saying, "This is the best phone/tablet because it is so much easier when it comes to productivity and doing more things at the same time". There was NONE of that in any store I went into. Sales people were clueless at Best Buy, and Staples doesn't have a ton of people looking to buy a tablet, so what would you expect?

SnootBoogie, why are you over-simplifying things and assuming that one "temporary" weekend price reduction is the same as PERMANENT price reduction (or better yet - the LAUNCH price of $300-$350 for base model, as in: let's take a small hit per unit, but spread the webOS love wide) for your average Joe, trying to make decision if to jump on some specific platform, or not?

I for one have predicted exactly that the sales numbers for "temporary weekend sale" will be nothing impressive, and will not make a dent in the sales trend. Check my postings, when I said that, and predicted that misunderstanding this, and bad marketing methods will yield bad conclusions on HP's part. Which apparently, they did.

But I admit, I totally wasn't prepared for them being so SHOCKINGLY wrong, as to kill the platform straight away.

This is not the same as buying a printer, a toaster, a fan or a lamp at discounted price - when temporary discount can smoke-test the real demand, and price acceptance. You don't give a damn, because you are connecting these devices into EXISTING ecosystems.

But buying webOS tablet - this is buying/jumping onto NEW OS ECOSYSTEM. And people "in the know" are asking all kinds of different questions:
Q: will it attract enough users, to start the snowball rolling effect? A: a weekend sale? NO.
Q: will it attract enough developers, to start & add a momentum to the snowball effect? A: A weekend sale? He11, NO!
Q: what will happened when the sales weekend ends? A: sales will stall back again

...and "people in the know", are the ones that are being asked by their friends, family and neighbors, when making decisions about buying the technology. How many of us were FORCED by HP's feckups, to NOT RECOMMEND webOS devices to anyone around?

Ergo: the status quo of the "weekend sale" was: "Lets skip that funny weekend sale stunt, and continue our "wait and see". if they finally pull their heads out of their arses, and start doing things right"

They have chosen to pull off the plug, instead, without even a fight.

Lastly, how do you rationalize that Touchapds are being auctioned up to £300 on eBay, and unlocked Pre3s are being auctioned to £400++ (in the range of £430-£450) - all of them, in your opinion, are ending in the hands of brainless webOS fanboys on that site, who have missed on firesale? Doubt it.

What I was repeating, time and again, $300/€300 tablet with a good specification, and working & built OK (and not as a sub-$150 **** , is all what is needed to be HUGELY successful in that market. TouchPad, if priced along this lines from day one - you will read in the reviews such a summary: "while it is certainly not perfect just now, it is hard not to recommend HP TouchPad at this price point - it does so many things straight out of the box, has the greatest potential of all mobile OSes out there, has backing of HP, and at that price point, it is impossible to beat".

Brainless, gutless, characterless corporate-suit idiots. I hate them, and will never ever in my life buy anything from HP. NEVER!

despite HP's failings in this, they should not dismiss recent successful sales of their touchpad. With nearly one million units in consumers hands, they should be jumping all over this, retracting their statement and fixing the plaguing issues immediately. Even if HP sold these at cost, they will still be making money through app sales (provided enough are sold) and accessories. I believe this is the amazon model as well.

whatever they do, they need to do something quick, because not announcing anything is only digging their grave deeper.

...but the problem is, grave has been dug, and webOS rests in it covered with a mound of fresh earth, and they do not intend to do anything about that, regardless all the corporate gobbledygook surrounding it. Decisions has been made weeks/months ago at high levels, and that's it.

I thought they dropped to $399 for a week with a Staples coupon that brought them down to $299 and they sold out that week so HP decided to drop the price to $399 permanently. And then instead of running with that for a while, they just axed it about a week later and did the firesale. $299/$349 at launch would have sold well!

"$299/$349 at launch would have sold well!"
...I am sure they'd sell like hot cakes, and as I said, reviews would have totally different summaries (and reviewers would have totally different attitude, and it would show between the lines of their writings, too)

they dropped them to around 299 didn't they?

No. *SOME* individual Staples stores were honoring the double-dip rebates bringing it down to that price. At many Staples stores, and every other retailer, $399 was the lowest price a customer could find it at.

So no, they didn't really see what sales would be like at $299.

My guess is it would have sold well at that price point, because it's going like gangbusters on e-bay at ~240 as an discontinued, likely unsupported product.

"My guess is it would have sold well at that price point, because it's going like gangbusters on e-bay at ~240 as an discontinued, likely unsupported product."

...my point exactly.

History has shown that this method has worked more than once, for different locations, cultures, markets, with different products (yes even technology), and so on. Even at the dawn of the last century in America, underpricing your competition often could render them a nonplayer in a matter of months, be it at a store, a restaurant, or just about anywhere. And now all these customers are buying apps so HP is starting to make some money back. Gee, how low tech can you get? I'd like to say HP was brilliant, but I just can't bring myself to accept something like that.
I just hope the idiots at HP will realize what they are up do and don't give up.

You're right, HP is not that smart. You mentioned that drastically undercutting your competition has be used in the past and has worked quite successfully.

However, NEVER, ever, in the course of that history has a company told the market - "here, you can have these things for practically nothing because we have a boatload and are not going to be making them every again".

That is market suicide.

just a point of order. i don't think this proves HP pulled the plug without counting the cost. the part about old contracts and is not fact it's supposition. the article above says "we suspect." "We suspect HP went back to the ledgers and figured it’d cost less to finish building what they contracted for." It could be true but it's far from a fact.

i'll skip 2-4 but for the most part i'd agree with 5. 1 million with no known future of growth in users anytime soon isn't a ton of users. Especially considering apple sold 10 million last quarter alone.

well said, appart from your 6th point. You seriously undervalue its usefulness, considering that there are digital photo frames that cost more than the $99 TP and its touchstone dock combined. Even with just its stock apps, it's worth every penny.

As many others have said, in hindsight, what could have worked is:

1. Release the TouchPad at $299(16GB)/$349(32GB), i.e. at cost price
2. Maintain this price throughout the life of the product (ala Apple). This will return some revenue as the production costs are reduced.
(note: the sudden price drops HP did, caused people to wait for further drops)
3. Get some revenue from accessories
4. Build a healthy user-base
5. 'Monetize' that said user-base through content
6. (which is not a step but rather a philosophy) Beware of the Osborne 1 effect

HP was late in the game, it was silly to try compete with the iPad at the same price point (especially with a product that is closer to the original iPad than v2)

"HP was late in the game, it was silly to try compete with the iPad at the same price point (especially with a product that is closer to the original iPad than v2)"

It wasn't "silly", that was IDIOTIC, you are way too kind for them!

"HP will have managed to build a userbase numbering around one million."

i've read wild speculation that they sold millions, plural in the price cut alone. Now that, according to past reports would put it a way distant second. But seems to me the idea that there is some massive 10 -15 million webos userbase now is debunked. they said before webos user base was around 2.5 mill including phones. This would now mean 3.5, maybe. The reality is that's not a huge userbase. It's better then 2.5 but it's still not massive. So i wouldn't blow out of proportion how successful the touchpad is. kudos for being number two. But i think there needs to be some perspective. It's better but not phenominal. Nor are any of the android/playbook competitors.

hey guys I'm a pre plus user on at&t. Me & my wife both are. We love this os. My wife loves the true multi tasking, she can check bank statements & use the calculater to balance & email them out to clients. While browsing the web. This webos is great. We have sadly come to the fact that we'll have to change, now that hp has screwed this up. Which os should we switch too? She barley likes apple & I'm not a huge fan of android. Which is the closest thing to webos for us? Also has anyone seen this samsung galaxy note phone? It looks pretty slick.

Blackberry Playbook

The Blackberry Playbook uses QNX and it's not too far off to call it a "webOS ripoff." It's quite nice in that regard actually. RIM is supposedly using that system in newer phones due out next year, from what I hear. I've seen the Playbook on display at Best Buy. Feel free to have a look, you'll see what I mean.

However, I wouldn't be so eager to dump the webOS devices quite yet. As long as they do the job, I stick around.

For the time being though, webOS devices really do work like nothing else. ;)

But why buy the RIM Blackberry Playbook when it's been slammed as a "flop" too?!? QNX may be webOS-like but from what I've read, the Playbook hasn't sold well and RIM is barely surviving too.

KENX, I have no idea where to go. I'm in the same boat. I love webOS. I still use my broken **** Sprint Palm Pre and I can't bring myself to let it go and switch to something else. I hate iOS (I have an iPhone 4 for work and I've played with iPad too) and Android is a mess (though the phones are actually better than the tablets). Performance and stability on my Android tablet is HORRIBLE!

I haven't really looked at WM7 yet but I'm hearing good things. I'm not a huge fan of Microsoft either but maybe if WM7 is good I'd consider it. The newer Android phones on Sprint (Evo 3D, Photon, Epic 4G Touch) do have some appealing features, but I really don't want to let go of true multitasking with webOS cards.

why do you need to change? did your pre plus stop working suddenly? mine seems to work fine.

I can't imagine this being an honest post (KENX). I think its someone trying to be funny. I agree... You just admitted the phone works great and its doing what you need it to do. So why look for another device considering your ATT plan isn't over yet? Who does this? Absolutely ridiculous post.

Sorry guys, I didn't give specifics on the condition of our phones. My wife's phone freezes up and just shuts down about 3 times a day. And most of the time her calandar is on the wrong day? My phone has a crack where the charger connects and is now spreading onto the screen itself making it a pain to use the touch screen on that side of the phone. We were both holding out for the pre3, but now we are both pretty bummed out about the none release of the pre3, that we started looking else where. So far checked out the Nexus, W7P,iphone4 & now the samsung galaxy note. but they are all disappointing. We could always buy another refurbished pre on ebay/craigs list, but that seems crazy since there's no future support for them anyway? sorry my post seemed "absoulutely ridiculous". I'm just a bummed out webos fan, thats all.

Sorry guys, I didn't give specifics on the condition of our phones. My wife's phone freezes up and just shuts down about 3 times a day. And most of the time her calandar is on the wrong day? My phone has a crack where the charger connects and is now spreading onto the screen itself making it a pain to use the touch screen on that side of the phone. We were both holding out for the pre3, but now we are both pretty bummed out about the none release of the pre3, that we started looking else where. So far checked out the Nexus, W7P,iphone4 & now the samsung galaxy note. but they are all disappointing. We could always buy another refurbished pre on ebay/craigs list, but that seems crazy since there's no future support for them anyway? sorry my post seemed "absoulutely ridiculous". I'm just a bummed out webos fan, thats all.

Sorry guys, I didn't give specifics on the condition of our phones. My wife's phone freezes up and just shuts down about 3 times a day. And most of the time her calandar is on the wrong day? My phone has a crack where the charger connects and is now spreading onto the screen itself making it a pain to use the touch screen on that side of the phone. We were both holding out for the pre3, but now we are both pretty bummed out about the none release of the pre3, that we started looking else where. So far checked out the Nexus, W7P,iphone4 & now the samsung galaxy note. but they are all disappointing. We could always buy another refurbished pre on ebay/craigs list, but that seems crazy since there's no future support for them anyway? sorry my post seemed "absoulutely ridiculous". I'm just a bummed out webos fan, thats all.

Why not clear out inventory of the 7" TouchPad Go or the Pre 3 for that matter. HP may be surprised how many they would sale with all of the interest in webOS that has been created in the past few weeks.

Build it (sale cheaply) and they will buy!!

What about any remaining Pre3s?

Make sure you remind those in your local Craigslists that more are coming and that they'd be stupid to pay scalper prices. Sure, they may not actually get their hands on them in the next round, but at least it lowers the ask price and the predators/parasites can eat ****

200,000 units, ha! The Slickdealers will order these up within minutes. By the time the email notifications, & tweets from HP go out, half the inventory will already be gone.

Good luck to everyone trying to get one.

did some research on this putz Leo. From his 7 total months of heading SAP, I found the following:

"Apotheker was pushed out due to delays in SAP’s Business ByDesign on-demand suite as well as the inability to set and communicate a technology vision. Meanwhile, employee morale at SAP fell.

This is from an internal SAP memo from Cpt. Leo:
"My communication towards you was not always optimal and the results of the employee survey did not completely come as a surprise to me given what happened during the time of the survey."

BTW - Leo just sent out a request for HP's employee annual survey. Wonder how this will be received. What in the **** was HP's BoD thinking? They should all be walked out ASAP. One of the biggest jokes EVER in corporate America.
He lasted 7 months at the helm of SAP and HP thought he was a good fit. 7 FREAKING MONTHS. Any of us could do less damage in 7 months. Freaking IDIOT.

Step 1: Tear HP asunder.
Step 2: ????
Step 3: Profit!

I do suspect this was driven by Leo. The Palm purchase was made by his predecessor and it appears that neither hardware manufacturing nor consumer marketing are his strengths.

Some people in positions of power will go to great lengths trying to make themselves look good. Perhaps it was easier for him to get rid of these products than to learn how manage them. Granted, WebOS was a drop in the bucket for HP, but the shift away from the PC market is a pretty big shift in direction.

"(...) but the shift away from the PC market is a pretty big shift in direction. "

yeah.... if them "great strategists" at HP did **** realize, WHAT kind of a worm is eating away PC market share, and that thing is called MOBILE COMPUTING, and that webOS is the best MOBILE OS out there...

But no - that would require to have two functioning brain cells, and use them daily, so beyond reach of Leo's & Co. team.

if only their could be a way for us consumers to be able to get some instead of these scalpers so they can mark it up by $150.....

scalping works because they are finding people willing to pay that amount. If people would stop bidding on those TouchPads whose price starts off at $200 on ebay, then the price would come down...

....have ever heard of supply/demand law? It is demonstrated here at its best.

All this million touchpads means is that competitors are almost guaranteed 900,000 sales in 2 years from people who use tablets and need to upgrade. Since prices will likely be less in a couple of years, the Touchpad 99ers as they'll be called, will be guaranteed sales.

In 2 years a lot can happen with OS work on the other platforms to minimize the loss felt the day WebOS died. No need for the puppy love. We'll all grow and mature.

Astoundingly poor execution is what this was. Seriously, if you're shooting at a running deer do you shoot at where the deer is now or do you shoot at where the deer is *going* to be? Wayne Gretzky understood this but apparently none of the right people at HP did.

And they say the market would require too many resources to break in to. No dummies, just the aforementioned two functioning brain cells...

sad thing is allot of people are buying these pads cheap and turning them into android..so the numbers are not matching the users on webos unfortunately! I know a guy locally that purchased 15 and sold them locally with android flashed on them!

all I know is F*** HP. I ordered my Pre3 from UK and will be receiving it in under an hr from now :D . Superstoked. Paid $700 for it but it's superworth it for me as this is the one thing i've been looking forward to all year and I won't let those FU**sticks @ hp take that away from me because of their bad management.
uuuhh la la ...my wait is about to be over :)

It's called "seeding the market". Adding another 1 million touchpads help create a more viable (translate: valuable) ecosystem for WebOS. They were on the hook got much of the costs anyways in terms of contacts so why not help he software they are keeping ahead trying to, license.

People who only bought your product because you marked it down 80 percent probably aren't the ones you want to build any sort of profit-generating ecosystem around.

Just ask the developers who aren't coming onboard and are, in fact, moving away.

"seeding the market", you are not being serious now? Seeding for what - for the next wave of never-to-be-released webOS hardware version next????

Seriously, man!

Wow, I want some of what you are taking ;-).

If this was the intent, you do this AFTER you have a buyer set up and ready to take over the business.

Now all they have done is set the expectation that this platform is only worthwhile if you can provide a product in the $100 range. And everyone realizes that while you may sell millions at this price, you will be taking a huge loss on every single sale.

I'm reminded of a director I used to have for my job. They lowered the price of a product (it was a training class) to below cost. When questioned about this, he said "Sure we are taking a loss on every single seat sold, but we are making up for it in volume". Needless to say he was out of his job in about a month...

People around here still seem to believe that HP could have had great success with a simple pricing adjustment. NO WAY! HP started at $500. Everyone cheered and said it was just as good as an iPad, or better: #1+! As an iPad competitor, the failure was catastrophic.

Then, they said they were not competing with the iPad, that the TP was a business play. Everyone cheered because HP has a HUGE salesforce that could leverage HP's scale, blah, blah, blah. Seems the enterprise laughed in HP's face.

Back to consumers.

Lower prices, temporary sales, coupons, rebates, apologies, and a 20% permanent price reduction. So unsuccessful was that, Best Buy demanded HP take the piles of unsold TPs back. $399 was likely the lowest they could go and not lose money.

At $300+ per unit, they would be losing money at less than the high $300s because there is so much more money that goes into a product besides parts and assembly. The TP epitomized profitless revenue.

What about apps? Hahahahaha... Anyone who believes for a moment that the average app in the catalogue is worth the same profit as a $60 Play Station game, is high and drunk. Plus, people keep the same PS for a long time and buy tons of $60 games. Good luck trying to base your business on $3 apps that pale in comparison to apps on the leading platform. Even Apple doesn't make their fortune on apps. Sober up, people.

The only future the TP has is one where each sale is preceded by the words, "Attention K-mart shoppers!"

"At $300+ per unit, they would be losing money at less than the high $300s because there is so much more money that goes into a product besides parts and assembly. The TP epitomized profitless revenue. "

That is what I was telling all the time - tough, but HP needed to get that financial hit with their webOS hardware ver. current - by selling for manufacturing costs.

This whole exercise is designed to get the failed webOS hardware off of the PSG books as soon as possible so that the spinoff can be executed without a floundering mobile flagship. The last thing that HP wants is some prolonged losing battle in the tablet space with the specter of heavily discounted tablets littering the electronic retail bargain bins with all of the other iPad knockoffs.

Look for HP to turn out the lights on webOS hardware as soon as possible and for them to act as if it never even existed.

People will trample each other at WalMart on Black Friday in order to ge their hands on $25 DVD players but that doesn't mean that the manufacturers of these devices and the brands that they represent have any long term prospects in the market.

Most seasoned developers know that a significant chunk of these cheaper devices will never have a paid third-party app installed. That's what happens when your devices are used as glorified picture frames, browsers for seniors and kids, and bathroom tablets. Let's just say that anyone who picks up a $99 tablet isn't looking to spend an extra $400 on the apps. That's just like saying that someone who buys last year's vehicle is putting the money saved into the accessories.

I like to see in writing (from the person claiming to be on the earnings call) where the WebOS GBU was losing $332mm a quarter. That seems almost impossible given they were not marketing much at all, had a stagnant production line for much of 2011 and 2010.

So you are saying the operational cost of Palm is over a billion a year?

The dept isn't that big, they had produced very little since the Pre2 which was done before HP bought them so where are the detail costs?

So they spent a billion in R&D for the Veer, Pre3 and TP? In less than a year.

Where are those costs coming from? Before you answer know much of the Touchpad's R&D was already booked as an HP slate running windows.

Palm retrofitted HP's planned slate with WebOS and some exterior tweaks to get it out the door. So perhaps HP pissed away 100s of millions on the slate design and allocated them to Palm. If so that is not Palm's fault.

Even the 800-1mm unit TP production run cannot be allocated as being 332mm a quarter (loss) b/c they made them all in Q2 (2011) for a Q3 release. Your comment acts like they have been hemorrhaging 332mm a quarter since day one which is not accurate.

Now if they are amortizing the acquisition cost into the carrying cost of Palm then maybe, just maybe but even that doesn't compute.

Mgt is playing with numbers b/c Leo has no clue what he is doing. Also when a CEO wants out of something the accountants can fabricate the numbers he needs to bail.

He needs Palm to look like a complete and utter failure to make the kind of ham-fisted and reactionary moves he is making.

In the end Leo, Ray Lane, Bradley (he wrecked PalmOne prior to coming to PSG so he is last moron you want running PSG as an independent) and most of the board will be fired.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/288438-hewlett-packard-s-ceo-discusses-q...

"Corporate Investments, which includes webOS, recorded revenue of $266 million and an operating loss of $332 million in the quarter. About a year ago, we made a bet on webOS and the opportunity to launch our own ecosystem around devices, applications and new markets. At that time, we set clear metrics and milestones to monitor the success of webOS. We launched the flagship product, the TouchPad, on July 1. And frankly, the software was met by strong reviews, but the sell-through of the product was not what we expected. Our intention was to solidify webOS as the clear number 2 platform for tablet. But with such a young ecosystem and poorly received hardware, we were unable to achieve our target. Additionally, it quickly became clear that pricing parity would not generate demand and we subsequently lowered TouchPad pricing by $100, which has added incremental near-term cost to our model. Even with the price reduction in Q3, we needed to better align our unit forecast with the sell-through reality in the quarter, and we took a $0.05 charge to EPS in addition to the loss we were already expecting in the business. We would expect an even larger loss for webOS in Q4 if we continue to operate the business in its current form. Essentially, the TouchPad and our webOS phone have not met our financial targets and other milestones that were set. To make this investment a financial success would require significant investments over the next 1 to 2 years, creating risk without clear returns."

WebOS is a money pit for manufacturers, retailers, carriers, and most developers.

It is is great, however, for eBay/Craigslist resellers taking advantage of HP's fumbling.

Just as I thought. "Corporate Investments" is a slush bucket from an accounting perspective.

I am a CPA so I know.

Oldest trick in the book and it technically is legal.

How much of the cost is WebOS is left intentionally vague.

This is pathetic.

Closest thing to an account lie as you can get.

LOL. The exact extent of the loss is insignificant. All that matters is that it was substantial enough to make HP revisit their forecast and give up.

Remember that HP said "We would expect an even larger loss for webOS in Q4 if we continue to operate the business in its current form.".

So:

1) It lost a good amount of money on top of the purchase price of Palm and R&D and manufacturing spent since.
2) There was no way to reverse this downslide because only greater price cuts (which would just add to the loss) would move the tablets, while HP Movie Store, app and accessory sales wouldn't come anywhere near to erasing those debits.

They would lose more money the more Touchpads they sold. It was a backwards business model, and they wisely amputated when it was still nascent.

You think like an HP board member. If Apple resorted to this type of short-term shareholder group-think they would killed the iphone and ipad the month after they came out for not maximizing shareholder value instantaneously.

HP didn't invest enough in the platform, managed it poorly and threw in the towel too early, simple as that. They could still rectify it and turn it into a long-term cash cow, but they likely won't due to their idiotic board members.

Long-term cash cow?

Maybe you missed my response below to Spydrel, but Apple - with hundreds of thousands of apps and tens of millions of customers buying them - made less than $200 million profit on the App Store in its first 24 months of operation.

No other app store - even Android - is anywhere near close in profitability, so HP might get a fraction of that, yet they posted much more than that as a net loss in the very first quarter. By the time HP got to $200 million "profit" from app sales, they would have gone through at least a couple billion dollars lost.

Where's the cash cow? Accessories? Pffft.

jerrydan3, stating required "couple billion loss" as something extraordinary, when trying to bring webOS to the broad market, you just demonstrated that you are equally clueless, as HP on that matter.

That was GRANTED from day one of HP's purchase, that they'll need to invest "couple of billions" into webOS to make it a competitive platform against the other players. What were you expecting? Before Microsoft even released WP7, that was known they were planning to spend one billion (US dollars) on WP7 ADVERTISING alone. And it was a year and some ago, much less crystallized market for mobile OSes, way more fluid, way more room for newcomers to snatch some mind/market share.

What were you expecting, a walk in the park, against such competitors? Say hello to arrogant HPalm management, they have thought the same, that "having a cool product" is all that is needed to conquer the world, and command Apple-esque price tags on sub-par hardware, to boot.

Seriously!

Forget the app store, you're seriously claiming that iOS devices aren't extremely profitable for apple now?

WebOS was not the problem, just the hardware. Oh, and the management. Fail at every level.

Oh well...

ive had an asus transformer pad with doking keyboard for months now. it rocks.
i picked up a touchpad for 99$ because.. it was 99$ .
i havent picked up my transformer since last week.
the touchpad with webOS (updated webOS right away)
is fun responsive and a breeze to use. ive already installed the "homebrew" app to easily tweak and overclock this thing and add a few needed apps.
yes, they are correct that alot of apps arent readily avail. but im willing to wait and support the developer community .

with one patch. ive got hulu running on my touchpad. as for my asus transformer ,,still no hulu.

In a way it's kind of like the PS3, where Sony was losing money on every PS3 sold (but at least they didn't back out of gaming thank g-d). Sometimes you have to lose money to make money HP

It's actually NOT like Sony or any other console manufacturer. The licensing and publishing revenues for $60 video games and console accessories FAAAAAAAAR exceed the paltry revenues HP could expect from app royalties and Touchstone and keyboard sales.

To put it in perspective, Apple was estimated to have made less than $200 million profit from the App Store in the TWO YEARS after launching it as the most successful online app store ever.

In HP's wildest dreams for WebOS, they would've seen MAYBE a third of that activity on the backend. If HP took a loss of $50-100 on each tablet sold in order to move inventory, that profit would be erased around when the first million Touchpads sold.

Nobody spends billions to make a few million under the best case scenario. They tried selling WebOS devices at a profit. It didn't work. No other model was sustainable or even advisable.

...but they would have Pre 4, webOs high-end slab, TouchPad2, Orion 2 - to go up with the prices IF THE HARDWARE WAS WARRANTING higer prices, and ver. current of webOS devices, sold at a loss/without the profit proved to be a hit. And it WOULD prove to be a hit, at REASONABLE prices, for God's sake! Pre 3 "Free on contract", accompanied by TouchPad for $350-$400, or maybe bundles of the two - that would sell as hot cakes, for feck's sake!

Palm's days were numbered the day Leo took over. He's a software guy and wants out of hardware. His biggest blunder is yet to come (competing with IBM, Oracle, and SAP in a market that he can't possibly get any traction in). Wasn't Leo fired from SAP for executing bad ideas? Wouldn't that make him turning HP into a software and services company, a bad idea?

I stopped reading after the word "Digitimes," because its a waste of time.

wondering this: why would you want a computer with one system, a phone with a second system, and a pad with a third system? Is the world so simple that we need to add needless complexity?

I was prepared to buy a Pre3 and TouchPad, in that order. But a pad that is not supported by any other system seems a white elephant.

I don't like Touch Pad. Because it's a not complete product. I don't know why HP try to focus on this Touch Pad.
Pre 3 is a better product. I like Pre 3, but now, I'm very angry with HP, Why no Pre3 was sold. I starting feel bored and tired in waiting Pre3.

^^
|_|
Loser

Why does this tool always post here? Can't this be blocked?

calling it quits now seems silly, I think HP should have had the fire sale first THEN decided whether to quit or not. They took the loss either way, so... why call it quits before you pull out all the stops to build a user base?

I'm a BlackBerry fanboy through and through, but even I'm interested in WebOS enough that if I had the chance I'd like to try it. I'd happily buy another tablet (full price) if WebOS won me over.

Silly silly HP... :