Editorial Daily Double: What if my Pre breaks? Cheering for a team that never makes the playoffs 136
Thu, 10 Feb 2011 4:19 pm EST
We saw lots of sexy newness at the Think Beyond event, from our first look at webOS 3.0 and the new HP TouchPad tablet to the sleek new Veer and Pre 3 smartphones. As a Sprint user with an original Palm Pre, I find the Pre 3 an enticing device, though I’m seriously bummed by the “planned availability this summer” release timeframe. It was a bit of a buzzkill to start, but now that I think about it, it worse than that.
For one, I don’t know that the Pre 3 will come to Sprint. The Veer is GSM-only right now, with nary a hint of CDMA, so for all we know it’ll be available unlocked and on SFR like the Pre 2 has been for the first months of its mysterious existence. The Pre 3 was announced as a CDMA + GSM world phone, something I’ve long been hoping for in a webOS device, but it’s still up in the air as to whether it’s going to hit Verizon or Sprint. And that summer release date is so purposefully vague (lesson learned from the Pre launch, we suppose), that it could conceivably run all the way to late September when summer in the northern hemisphere ends according to the Earth’s position in its annual whirl around the sun.
So I want the Pre 3, or even a Pre 2 or a Veer, but I can’t get one now. Alright, that’s fine, if I want it it’s not like I have any choice but to wait up to seven months (now that I type that, I’m feeling less fuzzy) for it to be released. The problem is, I can’t get a replacement Pre on Sprint (or Verizon, for that matter) anymore either. What happens if my Pre breaks? I had to go through three faulty Pre phones before I got one that’s worked for the past year, and I’m feeling good about the robustness of my current Pre, but stuff happens. I could drop it, lose it, accidentally run it through the wash, get mugged, or bash it against the desk in frustration because I tried to open the Email app. If my Pre ends up physically broken, there are no replacements on Sprint, even refurbished phones (which this current one was, now it’s just abused).
Do I get a Pixi? That’s not exactly an appetizing option, but if I want to stay on webOS and with Sprint, it might be my only choice. My Sprint contract expires in June of this year, like many early adopter Pre owners, and I’ll be up for renewal and a new device upgrade. I like to advocate that you pick your network and then pick your phone, but if there’s not a phone I can stand on the network of my choice, then that flips the equation around.
I’ll tough it out for now, because I like webOS. The financial commitment I’ve made in apps and accessories isn’t a huge deal - I had to deal with the same cord-cutting when I moved to webOS from Palm OS, so moving to Android wouldn’t be a financial burden. My problem is that I don’t want to move to Android. And I shouldn’t have to if the company that makes the phone and OS I want to use is still making product. The problem is there isn’t product on the shelf for replacements. If it comes down to it, I may hit up Ebay for a used Pre replacement, or maybe go the hacked Pre Plus route to sustain myself. Either way, it’s an unacceptable situation for the Palm fan who needs a new device.
Which makes me wonder: is HP cutting the cord on the old Palm webOS base and starting fresh with 2.X? The current crop of webOS devices (excepting the tiny group people who have a Pre 2) isn’t going to get webOS 2.X. The Palm brand is gone. And we’re not going to see new devices for at least another three months (the Veer in late spring).
This brings up the unfortunate reality of the situation facing HP: webOS was under development for years before it was finally released, and it takes time to train their engineers on how this new OS works and to get cracking on the new versions. Palm has experience in building this OS, but the team they brought to HP wasn’t huge. HP has no experience building an OS - they’re learning it as they go. Despite their enormous coffers, HP’s resources are limited. Chiefly, the most limiting resource is time: making it so webOS 2.X would work well on the original Pre would take time (see how long it took Apple to optimize iOS 4 from the iPhone 4 to work on the lesser hardware of the iPad).
All HP has to do is look at their current webOS userbase, which at this point likely numbers in the low hundreds of thousands, and ask “Is it worth it for us to do this?” The answer, sadly, is apparently no. HP made a big deal in their presentations about their scale - they sell two printers and two PCs every single second. They clearly expect to sell millions of webOS devices, and they said repeatedly that they’re going to launch a marketing campaign unlike anything we saw from Palm in the past. Considering that HP’s marketing budget for a single quarter is probably larger than the total Palm spent promoting webOS over the past two years, that’s not entirely unreasonable.
HP has repeatedly said that they’re going to leverage their scale to bring webOS to a much larger distribution stage, and we believe it. But even for a company as large as HP it’s a balancing act of deciding what to do, and more importantly, what not to do. In this case, the priority by far is getting the new hardware and operating system out the door to potentially millions of customers. We can say all we want that this small but fiercely loyal fanbase is what has sustained webOS to this point, but the fact that Palm was on the verge of collapse when HP came it tells us that a small but fiercely loyal fanbase is not enough to sustain a platform.
We may be the cheerleaders, but the current line-up can’t be trained fast enough to fill the seats in this stadium. The team needs better players on the field, so the coach can spend his time trying to retrain his small broken down squad, or he can whip out his checkbook and sign a new line-up that’s going to put points on the board and fans in the seats. But we as cheerleaders like the current team. We want them to still play in the big game, even if it’s with new players also on the field. The problem is that the coach promised us that they’d get to play, only to now tell us the opposite.
In the end, I think that’s the real issue here: when webOS 2.0 was announced, Palm explicitly said that it would come to the older devices in “the coming months.” We’ve waited through those coming months, only to be told that it’s not going to happen. If the new devices were available today, or in a few weeks, it might not be so frustrating. But they’re not, and HP is clearly more interested in moving forward, even if that means cutting the boat anchor that trying to support webOS 2.0 on old Palm hardware might be.
All that said, consumers have a long memory when it comes to stuff like this. It’s why GM and Chrysler are struggling with their public perception, and it’s why Apple had to issue credits to iPhone early adopters when they dropped the price shortly after launch. And it’s why HP has promised a “special treat” or something of the like for these loyal users. If that’s a early upgrade or discount on new hardware it’ll go a ways towards soothing these wounds, but the damage clearly made to the emotional investment of many loyal webOS is a tricky thing to repair. But is it worth the effort?
136 Comments
well written. im having the same thoughts myself.
Hitler learns HP's latest WebOS plans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ9YqlmM8zw
that was hilarious, I like it even better then the Kyocera Echo version
someone should forward that to Apotheker
If you're on Sprint and your Pre breaks, I recommend you use your 30-day return policy to try out the Evo Shift 4G. Maybe you'll like it? Maybe you won't? But at least then you'll know.
If you have assurion your worry is invalid. last week, I thought I'd lost my second Pre and I called them and they assured me they had plenty of Pres in stock for insurance replacements.
So whether it breaks or is lost. There's a new pre +/- waiting for you.
I just called Assurion today to get my wife's broken Pre replaced (dropped in water) and they are sending me a replacement Pre. I was waiting to see if I could replace my Pre with a new one with my one year upgrade. So now I have to wait until my contract expires next December to see who has the Pre now that the price advantage of Sprint is gone.
PJ
I had mine replaced last month with no problems.
Derek,
This is a good summary of the dilemma facing HP. I agree that the current user base is a small band of die-hards and that HP must expand the user base if webOS is going to survive and grow. But, making a decision that alienates their current users doesn't make sense. HP needs to give the current users some good surprises, versus what we have heard lately, and they need to do it soon.
In the short term, there are loads of Palm Pres on eBay.
I was thinking the exact same thing about ebay haha. I first though about switching to something else. Honestly, I bet I could make an android phone work the way I want it. But who am I kidding? Who would these die-hards be kidding? We are gonna stay right here. For the record, webos internals is the reason I am still here.
We are a small fan base, right? So a nice surprise like a super discount on the new devices wouldn't be a huge loss.
This was my thought. An HP sponsored discount (as well as the standard carrier discounts) would go a long way to healing any ill will.
Yeah there are loads of Pres on ebay but not many for Sprint. The good news is the ones for Sprint are the only affordable ones. All the GSM pres, locked or unlocked, are 3-400 bucks. I just bought two used ones for $200 a piece but I had to make an offer, they were listed for higher. So yeah even though he may be able to replace his phone, he's going to have to lay out money and it'll have to be a used one.
Again. What are you guys talkin about??? If you have insurance, our deductible is $50. and for that, last time, I got a brand new pre+ in the box with all new accessories and everything!
If you're gonna eBay, ask what the device date is. don't buy it if it's before 2/2010. That's about the time they fixed the keyboard.
I think my next phone will not a be a webos phone. I see hp in a couple of years doing what nokia is doing. After all this money and time invested on os that they can't get any developers for or any cariers to sell there hardware they are just going to abandone the os and go either with wm7 or android. My bet is on wm7 since they already have a big partnership with microsoft.......so sad.........
HP will NOT have a problem getting carrier approval. Big gorillas pack a punch...
Sorry. Symbian was a horrible OS. WebOS is good and getting better. I don't see the correlation. Nokia makes phones and.... ??? HP makes printers and servers and desktops and laptops and printers and now phones and tablets, to name a few.
thats the downside when you depend on a carrier for a working phone... i'm glad not to have this problem, there are still lots of new or cheap used pre+ GSM devices available
I know. For the year (ok, 11 months) from June 2009-May 2010, I was going back and forth ("Do I switch to Sprint for the Pre? No. Do I switch to Verizon for the Pre Plus? Hmmm... no. Do I find somewhere to order and unlock a Mexican Pre and use it on AT&T? Maybe.") Then AT&T (finally!) got the Pre Plus and I was happy, and then I got an unlocked Pre 2 last November and had a nice easy switch. Now I'm staying put and putting money together for a Pre³--unlocked, I hope--and maybe a TouchPad... or I may wait for a 7" tablet. The more things change... :)
I agree completely. I'm not doing it anymore. I bought two used unlocked GSM Pre +'s and I'm using them on prepaid. Prepaid plans are a lot cheaper and now I own my phone and no one can tell me what to do with it. I had my Sprint Pre for months and I was on a CDMA prepaid carrier that uses Sprint's network but they wouldn't let me use my phone. I had to use a cheapo junk phone. Plus, when I had Sprint, they were jacking me up to $200 a month for two phones. So now I've got two better Pre's that I own and can switch carriers whenever I want, even temporarily, and for a more reasonable $120 a month. From now on I'm sticking with GSM unlocked and prepaid.
Does anyone know what Sprint is doing for replacement devices?
If the replacement is not webOS, why am I paying for the TEP on my 2 webOS phones/lines?
Ditto. I CAN'T get a replacement. This doesn't make sense to me at all, but then again I suppose it doesn't have to.
HP don't leave us Pre- owners in the dirt!
Very good, everything is said in your text
I hope some from HP/Palm will read this!!
Thank's
Alain
Both HP and Palm dropped the ball when they did not include a 4 plus in slab in the announcement. Folks ( not the loyal fans) expect new products. Pre 3 is not a new product, its a better Pre. Like that youtube video said , the cat surprised more than HP.
Long story short HP has to surprise everyone by releasing a new phone on Sprint. Then add an iPod Touch like device to their line up. That would get the platform rolling.Donating hardware to homebrew holding developer conferences won't get them more folks to develop for them.
I like the idea of the ipod touch like device, but I think the music player on the device is a long way away from carrying a device like that. Apple could do that b/c they already had the iPod. It was almost expected that they'd do that. For HP, it'd be a tougher, but not impossbile sell. But the music player would need a serious revamping first.
I also like the idea of ipod touch like device. So much so that I'm actually doing it with a family member's discarded Bell Pre being used in the USA as everything but a phone. It was a Christmas present for a well behaved pre-teen offspring.
IF... If HP can come up with a killer music app and releases a ipod touch 'like' WebOS device, I might be up for that. It better had great battery life though.
I don't play music on my pre because I don't want to kill my battery. So I carry an old nano.
I don't necessarily agree on this point. Look at Apple, they keep releasing the same product and all they do is just keep making it better. Find what you do good and keep improving on it.
Identify if the product you keep releasing is appealing to the MASSES, and then continue to make it better. That's what Apple has done. And if HP Palm is so strung up about how they feel the Pre is the right way to go (which it is to some extent) then let the unproven success of it point you toward complimenting the product line with a different style device; slab, candy bar, whatever? It just doesn't make sense to repeat the process that got Palm to this point all over again. And I'm sorry folks, but at this point - all can't be blamed on marketing. Therefore, all won't be fixed by marketing. Futhermore, all won't be fixed by trying to throw WebOS is the eyes of consumers every time they purchase a HP product. A major example of this is Microsoft - who would undoubtedly by now have sold more smartphones than anyone considering their Windows user base. But I guess that didn't work out as we'd think. Although WP7 is a good platform, there's more to go along with pushing the phone rather than saying "Hey, it's from us - you know, Microsoft." Now, Microsoft didn't specifically do this but it seems like this is HP's high road of choice.
MS has had WM phones for years. And they all SUCKED! not just the hardware, but the software. So many people don't trust MS to build a good phone. But it is getting a lot of good press and people are starting to buy it. WebOS is better IMO and with better hardware, they will sell more than Palm did.
Bottom line, I think it's a good strategy, I just hope the devices come out sooner rather than later.
no device can compete against an ipod touch.. it will sell the same if not worse than the microsoft zune.. android would have a better chance at it then webos, but even andorid user base would be hard pressed to pick a android music device over an ipod..
Apple owns the music system that the majority of people use.. and Itunes dont play nice with webos or any other device, they lock you in to apple products..
It *might* have a chance is webos starts to really catch on, but that will never happen until HP has 3-4 form factors on each carrier..
the same 3-4 devices on Each Carriers! No changes across the board, same hardware.. IF they must do an exclusivity, have each carrier start with one, then after 1-2 months release all. The form factors should be:
-Slab 4"
-Pre3 design (3.5" vertical slider)
-candybar style
-and maybe the horizontal slider (for those side sliding lover, i personally hate them)..
If they decide an iPod like device, will it have an anemic 8 or 16GB like the phones? Good grief, when the Pre- was released 16GB was the norm. When the Pre+ was released, 32GB was the norm. Two YEARS after the Pre- was released, HP thinks 8 and 16GB is enough???
I doubt the current userbase is in the low hundreds of thousands. Probably closer to a million - beware the power of contract!
Besides, we may be a minority compared to the numbers (we hope) HP will be selling to in the near future, but we're a very vocal minority, and word-of-mouth is something HP can't afford to squander. I can tell a coworker, "I've used webOS phones. The OS works great, but as to the [products, company]... Skip it" There's always that big "but", isn't there?
Commitments mean something, even if they're difficult to keep. If HP fixes this OTA PR disaster, I think most of us can work through the availability problem. If we get to the point where we can't find used phones on-line, that doesn't mean they aren't out there. I have a Sprint Pre I inherited from someone who lost it and never came back to reclaim it. I was planning on using it for testing purposes, but I'd be willing to donate it if someone needed it. (Don't ask me! If you absolutely, positively can't get another one, let PreCentral know and they can put out the call!)
In the meantime, people, snap up those Pixi Pluses. Amazon has them for sale for around $50 - $60. Not sure about activation on Verizon, though.
Correction: I'm talking about unactivated Verizon Pixi Pluses. There are conflicting stories about various carriers refusing to activate older phones, so I'm not sure if you'd have a problem. Anyone speak on this definitively?
...I've always maintained the insurance plan offered by Sprint, and received a replacement Pre- last Friday the 11th. It was actually kind of fun. My old Pre- was a mess! Just for giggles I doctored, kernel, and then patched...felt like a kid at Christmas. lol
I hate HP. Do they think I am stupid? All new phones have just a slightly faster CPU than the plus and at the devdays they said they made 2.0 much faster and less resource hungry (node.js etc). So saying that old devices don't have the horsepower is utter bullcrap.
I will never buy anything from HP again and I will tell everybody to buy from someone else.
Fool me once ..
Hitler learns HP's latest WebOS plans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ9YqlmM8zw
Wow. As a webOS and a Cubs fan that almost brought me to tears...
"HP has no experience building an OS - they’re learning it as they go."
Not quite. Maybe no prior experience with phone/mobile device OSes, but HP-UX, Tru64, VMS/OpenVMS, and NonStop are HP-owned OSes. And they're all currently supported.
Don't forget ThinPro, which I believe grew out of their NeoWare thin client acquisition (back in 2007).
And it's not really like they're building an OS. They're building a Linux distribution and an application framework. And, unlike Google, Palm built on a largely standard open source infrastructure. Not only does that reduce their internal requirements (since maintenance is done largely upstream) but it means there is a large pool of external talent with ready expertise in the underlying technologies (either for hire or through contract with firms like Fluendo).
Very good point about not being able to keep the current Pre s running until the Pre 3 comes out... and that's assuming it will even be available on Sprint. Regarding your point about whether it is worth the effort to keep the current users happy, I was wondering the same thing. I like all the devices they have planned. I would have liked for them to add a 4" slab as well since that form factor seems to be very popular, but I'm more relieved that they didn't kill off the portrait slider, since that is my preferred form factor. However, the wait for the new set of devices just might be too much now. If we hadn't already waited for the first Pre to be released, and then waited for the Pre 2 (which we then heard will never come to Sprint) and then waited for the Feb 9 announcement, and now still waiting for more details. I really REALLY thought that HP had queued up the WebOS 2.x announcement to older devices for Feb 9th announcement in order to really stoke excitement within the current fanbase, and to keep those fans with them. Normally, I would come down on the side of looking forward and providing good support for the older devices, but at the same time, not letting them hold you back from innovation; however, in this case, I think they really needed to bring the current users along in whatever way they could, because they're going to need them to jump start their big WebOS push. The odds are already against HP, and they really needed their current users to spread the word about how good WebOS really is and to help sell their platform... but I fear that this current user base will be greatly diminished by the time the Pre 3 and Touchpad release. Of course, to add insult to injury, us CDMA users can't even settle for a Veer in the short term. I think HP made some major miscalculations here, and I'm wondering if the people they let go during the "merger" were the ones they should have kept, because the current bunch just doesn't understand what they're doing.
The community is so full of whiners and anger I find it amusing. You whine for info to be released for months and then whine when they do release info. HP knows what they are doing and despite the current situation they will be very successful with the future of webOS. Sure, the change is rough but Palm failed to succeed and now the re-boot is happening. The changes are not what I wanted to see at the Feb 9 event, however, as a life long HP user I will wait and se how they change the market with the future - hell, that is the only choice I have.
Let's all just take a large breath and stop bashing, whining, criticizing and atacking and if so desired offer some positives. I think everyone needs this. I know after reading the comments for the last few days I am burned on the negative and am looking forward to the future of webOS.
I guess you don't mind being lied to then . . .
Please identify the completely honorable technology companies that you deal with. You know the ones I mean ... the companies that are successful enough to have worhy products, and also have never, ever lied to anyone, cheated anyone, nor stolen from anyone.
How many of you are really this subservient in most other aspects of your lives? We have a group of people who have deliberately lied to you, genuine outrage is expressed by those who trusted, and then you go back to sniffing your master's glove. Worse are those who defend the acts.
Remember a universal truth. All healthy predators and parasites have prey and hosts, respectively. And, predators and parasites often have others just like them providing support.
Ordinary people, many without the funds to even buy the simplest of phones overthrew a government last week. And, here we have people begging for some love from predators and parasites. Gingerbread won't be that bad. 7 probably okay. Even the iPhone is alright. At least when people ask you what phone you have, you'll be able to respond, "I am not a bitch." You should have said it to HP already.
Blazinfly seems like one of those battered wives. HP didn't mean to hit me. It's not HPs fault. I made it mad. You should all be glad we have HP around at all.
Frankly I don't like it when a company repeatedly lies to me. I bash them for it so others will know they can't be trusted, then I vote with my wallet and never give them another dime.
Just taking it in silence? Why?
Since you have taken it upon yourself to make a personal attack on me without knowing me I will respond. First, I am a very strong individual who does not let others walk over me. I am a very successful business owner and those that I employee rely on me to be a strong leader as their future rides on my strong leadership.
Your reference to a battered wife is something that only someone who fails to understand the serious nature of that circumstance and most likely has some internalized hatred for women.
Your reference to "BASH" is quite disturbing. I was not raised to "bash" any individual or company for failing to meet my desires, yes desires. You are so wrapped up in what you read and attempt to understand that you belive that you were intentionally mis-led and lied to as a part of HP's marketing or business plan. Apparently, they made statements that they are now, under new ownership and attempting to revive webOS, that Palm failed to accomplish, unable to meet. Sure this does not sit well with some individuals, myslef included, however, for the future of the product and the responsibility HP has to its shareholders, decision are sometimes made that change committments made in the past. Not ideal, but it happens every day in every business.
I have expressed my personal feelings directly to HP, ONCE, and not multiple times through the trashing, bashing and verbally berating and threating the company and its management like I have been reading in these comments. I was raised better than that. Thank you Mom and Dad.
Yes, you do have the ability to make your position know and purchase other products in the marketplace. There are other companies that will gladly offer you their products and will make no committments to you at all. I, however, have been a HP customer for many many years and have had no negative experience with their products or the company. Actually, they replaced a monitor for me in the mid-90's that failed out of warranty with no hassle at all.
I strongly believe that you are one of those people that goes through life as miserable as possible and makes every effort to make those around you as miserable as you are. I choose not to be that person.
Wow, overreact to a "personal attack" while you dish one out in return, then airily stroll into the sunset with your nose in the air like you were the bigger man.
The whiners and complainers are the ones who get shit done. Remember when Apple dropped the price on the original iPhone just two months after release? Guess who got them to issue that voucher?
What if your employees were unhappy with a certain aspect about your business? You want high employee morale but if they didn't "whine and complain" then they'd just go on being unhappy or leave.
And for the record, the intensive outrage at HP is that they had us -now them (as I moved on to an HD7 in November)- holding on for months only to rip the rug out from underneath us. Why couldn't they tell us sooner? Its human nature to not want to feel duped but that's exactly what HP did. They duped us.
You can buy on off CL or ebay...
but your article is spot on. Except for me, it will always be carrier first because of the contract issues and namely cost. I love webOS, but I don't love it enough to start paying $40-80 more a month (family contract, majority smartphones, all soon). over the course of a contract.
Sadly, Sprint has such a lackluster selection of phones now (it's like Verizon before they finally got some droid devices).
You might want to look into how much upgrading on Sprint will cost you since they are now going to charge an extra $10 "Premium Data" fee per smartphone.
Very well written, Derek, and right on the money. I'm in the same boat as you but even further along in the timeline - my original Sprint Pre is ALREADY breaking. The headphone jack is terrible (must hold the plug in a certain position to get any sound), I had to perform the ol' rubber-band-under-the-wake-button-to-keep-it-springy trick, and, most worrisome, The rocking of the slider can actually knock out the sound for phone calls, etc, if I hold it certain ways.
Long story short, I can't wait until summer - I need a new phone now.
I've been evangelizing webOS ever since the beginning. I've overclocked it, installed homebrew, donated to webOS internals, given countless demonstrations of the OS to fellow iPhone / android owners...it's KILLING me to think that I'm not going to be able to hold out for the new phones. And here's the kicker: I have a new program through my work where, for a limited time, I can get a new free HTC EVO, EVO Shift or Epic (with a new 2-yr contract).
So, as much as I've been DYING for new webOS devices, I can't deal with my beat-ass phone anymore and I don't know how long the free Android phone program will last. I think I'm going to have to make the switch. In that case I'll have dreams of webOS really kicking ass in the mobile phone race so that I can one day come back to it, but in the meantime I'll just have to learn to get along with Android. I'll use it, I suppose, but I'm really bummed about it.
Thoughts? Advice? Let me know.
why not buy a pre at ebay?
(free or not free is not such a difference when a new TWO YEAR contract is needed)
I seem to recall Ruby boasting about installed user base. But then Ruby must not have much pull at hp, he failed to keep the palm name.
Beautifully written as usually Derek. This is the delema that many users face... I hope those that *need* to leave will be back sooner than later....
I am also anxious to see what new smartphone hardware HP has had input in will look & feel like....
Carriers chose which phones they will offer on their network. So it's Sprints fault we can't get a Pre 2 on Sprint.
I used to strike up a conversation with anyone I met who had a WebOS phone (I'm a server, so I meet new people constantly). I would get them excited about it, tell them to hold out for the new HP models (when they informed me they were going to get an EVO), help them with any frustrations they may be having with their curent device...
I honestly don't feel like giving HP this kind of support now. I think word of mouth is important, and I also think my fellow community members are people their friends go to for tech advice (I certainy am).
I understand they need to check out the big picture, but this is exactly the type of thing I've been worried about for months.
HP just is not and will not be as cool as Palm was. *tear*
Remember the HP calculators... and Enyo is cooler than Mojo!
Well i am on O2 uk, and im sending my pre back the 2nd time. O2 does not do the Palms anymore. Manager told me that they dont even have spare ones in stock. Im due to upgrade in April. As much as i hate to say it i need a functioning phone, i feel like handicapped using an iphone, i detest the windows phone UI, blackberry is fiddly, Android...eh dunno.
Hope Amazon brings the palm2 prices down...
Ebay would be your best friend. you can get a new pre for less than 200 and a good used for bout 100
personally i believe you are mischaracterizing the analogy between webos and HP and GM and chrysler.
GM and Chrysler, chose to pay their workers and cut costs through its products, thats why the things they make got worst and worst over the years.
HP is not giving us less, it wants to give us much much more. but even as you stated, time is of the essence. HP needs to optimize 3.0, they need popular apps, and need to build the webos ecosystem so that their entire brand will be seen by that.
As much as i hate to say it, commercially webos has failed, at least for now anyways. So why not move forward? focus on what webos was always intended to do and do everything in its powers to make it so.
Yes we are jaded, but they have the vision, much like palm did, but now also have the means to acheive it. webOS will have an ecosystem unlike any other os including ios and osx. it will be ubiquitos and run from the cloud. have all your needs from one comp to your phone to even printer and one day toaster -=)
HP has the power to make it happen, but it must look forward. time is of the essence.....
Scale? I'm so tired hearing about HP's scale. How about some perspective? They may sell tons of PC's every minute, but they sell ZERO smartphones every day! How's that scale working for you?
Every webos fan on Sprint is in deep doo doo. What to do? Who wants a new contract with a phone they don't want, no matter how much you save on said contract? Not me. Sprint's line up is pretty bad right now and it shows in their numbers. Sprint is happy about growth, but it's all in the Boost Mobile area. They need a new flagship device and we can hope it is a webos device, but when? I have already hit up Craigs list for a stop gap Pre, but I hated spending money on 2 year old technology. And the USB port cracked in the first month. AARGH!
Sprint users are in dire straights! A conundrum, I tell you!
Time to switch or add a GSM network line. You could buy an pre2 and use it on AT&T on pay as you go or contract or you could use pre 2 on a even more pluse plan and get no 3G. Also I am quite curtain that local Sprint stores have some pres in stock because my VZW and AT&T stell have pre plus in stock eventhough the online store is out.
ANU one know exactly when they stopped doing replacements? because i went friday and the sprint guy was able to order me a replacement! O_O
Great job of summarizing the frustration of the current situation.
100% false!
i broke my pre on tuesday(coffee spilled, shorted it out), got a replacement wednesday afternoon. i think it was refurb but no noticible wear or defect. this is my 3rd pre since launch day in 09.
who ever told you there's no pre's at sprint is lying.
I'm in the same boat. As I stated in my comment in the previous article, I no longer feel comfortable buying apps for my Sprint Pre knowing I may only have the phone for a few more months. I'm sure there are many people that think like me. I hate to stop supporting developers but right now I can't invest any more money into a platform I don't know I'll be a part of.
I have 3 lines through sprint an all are palm pre gen¹ with 2 bakup pre's with 100.00 to 400.00 in webos apps an upgrades in june. I hope the pre³ is out by then an hp/palm makes all the lying right. Don't make a mistake of losin loyal costumers to webos who buy palm product because of reliblity an great product, thinkin we are consumers buyin next cool gadget out like people with rim an android products. Pre gen¹ owners will be your foundation to compete with apple an make it grow by showin off your product. I got 8 other family members to swith to pre's don't wait much longer please! You to Sprint!
david b
hppre3@aol.com
Awesome article. I felt the same way after the presentation, which is why I'm writing this from my new Evo 4G. I really hope webOS makes a comeback, but their roadmap for cell phones is pathetic. Whoever above made the comment that the Pre 3 is not a new phone was dead on the money. It hasn't taken me but a few days to get used to Android, and while the elegance of webOS isn't here, functionality is. For those of you debating the switch, fret not, Android may multi task a bit differently, but you can do everything webOS can do, and faster. (and my pre was overclocked, the evo still runs circles around it) I miss webOS, but I don't miss that damned hardware. I'm waiting to see if they have a decent device on Sprint when my next upgrade comes through, but I'm not holding my breath on this one anymore.
Yes. My contract is up 6/6/11. Two years from the Pre launch. Since it appears my Pre (minus) has reached the end of its cycle, I will be in the market for a new phone. With no new Palm device available, it will most likely mean a move to Android (or, less likely, Apple). The idea that Sprint would not be able to replace my Pre, should it die if I chose I hang in there past contract, or that Sprint may not carry the new HP devices at all only adds to this conviction to move on.
Sprint just replaced my cracked Pre yesterday. The unit came in a refurb box, but compared to other refurbs I've received this unit feels new. I expected them to say there were no replacements, even though I pay the protection plan. A 3+ hour ordeal between backing up/activating/restoring. I've had some practice - this is my 7th unit since Aug. 2009.
I've been debating a switch since the Evo came out. Overclocking has made the waiting bearable. I am tired of the waiting games. Still I find the platform so productive for my business.
Pondering on Apoteker's proclamation then announcement contridictions and Ruby's non-informative interview with Engadget, I feel like their strategy at this time is to leverage the loyalty of the webOS faithful to buy some time to attempt achieving a product pipe dream. Like running on cash reserves, they are hoping enough existing customers will keep a pulse in the platform until they can relaunch it.
This is a bittersweet strategy for all involved. Basically, I have stopped evangelizing the platform. No One I know could go through all the drama of being on this platform. And this is why Apple holds their dominant position in the market: EXECUTION.
I think what people don't realize is that this a is an enterpise driven platform. Hp is using their leverage in the enterprise market. We are mostly general consumers here. It's quite apparent in their marketing material so far that the strategy is going for the professionals. Pre ³ is being touted as such. Which to me is fine. We are early in year and what we forget is that they had six devices planned in the pipeline for launch later in the year. Devcies more targeted toward consumers maybe? Who knows? All I know is that webOS will be around and I will try my best to support the platform as long as the devices are available to me on SPRINT. I'm quite hopeful that we will see these devices on Sprint. I have not heard anything to tell me otherwise. PRECENTRAL SHOULD GET SOME KIND OF POLL GOING FOR SPRINT PRE OWNERS THAT ARE READY FOR UPGRADE.
Great point Derek. This article and along with the posted comments should be posted on HP's website. Yes this community is full of whiners and spoiled brats, but they have a valid point here. And i'm with them this time!!! HP might be the largest computer technology company out there, but they still could fail at this project with webOS." I hope not!!!" Some incentive should have been given out by now. But on another hand, HP and palm has let me know that, they still need help developing the software. I personally currently don't think they are experience enough with this kind of software to it scaling to where it need to be now. Because if they had what it takes, they would of been had these software update to us by now. I think webos 3.0 should of have came out with way new features other than what we had seen. I personally think that they are lacking with not having a strong and innovative software team is one of the main reason why they have not come out with these products yet!! And on hardware, I'm quite to know that it's good, but 512mb of ram on a multitasking device for a new generation of smartphones is not enough. Instead, i would of think a 1gb of ram dual core, would of have been right on point to start the new generation of webOS phones and tablets. Remember, they brag about true multitasking but if the hardware is not up to par, then you should only brag a little bit. Good luck HP.
I bought my Pre back in August of 2009. It has lasted til this past Friday. I had dropped it one too many times and Friday was it's last drop. I went to Sprint and they gave me a refurb. I'm not sure how much more of these are going around, but I'm glad I was able to get a refurbed Pre to hold me out til the Pre3 comes out.
Great Article. I understand exactly where you are coming from but I will remain patient and just hope for the best.
I left Pre a year ago and went with the EVO. I want to come back now with a faster processor and a bigger phone. I love web os 2.0 and would switch back even with the lack of apps. Come on Sprint lets announce your going to carry it before I switch to Windows 7 this summer.
so what ur saying is that HP is the dallas cowboys?
To your comment, "All that said, consumers have a long memory when it comes to stuff like this. It’s why GM and Chrysler are struggling with their public perception, and it’s why Apple had to issue credits to iPhone early adopters when they dropped the price shortly after launch."
I totally agree, I recently needed a vehical...Ford received my business along with an investment in their stock....frankly the others were not even viewed because of the bailouts.
traction has been lost......the ditch becons.
amen. We got a Ford for the same reason.
And this article sums up my situation perfectly. Well, almost, I'm in a 4G covered area so not having that is making even the Pre3 a harder decision than it should have to be.
I am with Big Red, so for me it's just a matter of waiting until after Thanksgiving of 2011 to upgrade to a Pre3. I live up in NH and Verizon has the best coverage up here....AT&T, T-Mobile and Sprint just don't cut it up here.....so yes I am a slave to the pricing plans that Big Red saddle us users with. My Pre+ is working well (homebrewed and overclocked...only to 800 tho) but this is my 3rd one in less than a year. Now I am getting the dreaded micro-usb crack and the unit is still under warranty until mid March. I called Cust Serv last week and they had a replacement Pre+ ready to ship, but I declined and instead just "reported" that I have the crack. I may wait until after 2/17 (Pre2 delivery day) and see if they will ship a Pre2 as a reasonable replacement for my cracked Pre+.....it just may be the best way to get a Pre2 while I wait to upgrade to a Pre3. At some point, Pre+'s will be unavailable to replace broken Pre+'s.....and I also have the Insurance on the phone....so what if I break it in May....cough up the $50 deductible.....then they'd have to send me a Pre2 (not even sure I would want a refurbed Pre+).....cuz I wouldn't take an Android phone...or (gulp) and iPhone as a reasonable replacement. I did get a Pixi+ 2 weeks ago for 54.99 with shipping from the OneDaySale.com deal, so I have a webOS backup if I need it. But the situation is not optimal.
As far as this writeup....very well crafted. I agree with most of it. The Sprint-centric items just don't apply to the VZW users, but I sure do feel your plight. From a webOS 1.4.5 to 2.x to 3.0.....that whole deal kinda sucks and I just read an article on precentral about the pickle the developers are in (http://www.precentral.net/webos-developers-here-your-2011-do-list-mainta...) which really affects the end users as well....but that being said, I am so vested in Palm/HP & webOS that I couldn't get out even if I wanted to. I mean like many of us I've been with Palm since my original Handspring Device....some even before that! So I am so rooted in the Palmdom that I don't want to leave....Android can suck it and Apple.....I just don't want to follow the lemmings.
I just hope HP sees the value in this loyal and somewhat rabid user base. Many of us have been here for 10/15 years as Palm users and I think HP wasn't thinking about that....they were only thinking back 2 years to the original Pre's when they made some of these decisions......not cool.
Still....I will be a webOS user on whatever hardware they release....whenever that is...because I am tied to the success of webOS and the old Palm, now HP. Let's HOPE they kick some major ass and pull it together in "the coming months".
I understand your perspective - being a VZ customer and all. It would be different for you because - as hints have pointed out - the devices are to continue on VZ. The problem still exist that most WebOS users are on Sprint - by a pretty large margin. I don't have the numbers to specifically state but thats what the launches suggest. Let's put it this way, Sprint users are already overwhelmingly stating that they can't afford to leave Sprint for Verizon, so they will stay with Sprint. I'm sure some will go but not many as they will begin to eye Android devices on Sprint; boo. And then, at that point, if HP Palm is under the impression that the Verizon users will help fill up their user base with WebOS 2.0 and 3.0 devices - they are GRAVELY mistaken. And that I say is not to be taken with a grain of salt.
I have a GSM Pre, I plan to upgrade real soon now (waiting for the shop to get a stock of some other unrelated product I want). My Pre works fine and was never repaired or replaced.
I will upgrade to a Pre 2 despite even if it is only for a limited time. But I live in europa, who knows if HP will release it pre3 unlocked GSM in europa at the same time as in USA. And further more, I do not NEED to buy a pre3 the same day it comes out.
Derek, this is exactly what I've been feeling in each and every comment I've made on this site since the "Think Beyond" event. It's just a shocker that a company would be willing to do that to its current users - but the enormity of the situation is in the fact that they said they wouldn't do it before the event. It's really just bad customer relations that (I feel) will only transform current advocates of the platform into antagonists. How's that going to work in favor of the new products when people walk into stores and the product isn't promoted by the service reps themselves? If neither party does their job in standing by the product - then who's left to promote it? Advertising? Yeah, good luck. If advertising were that simple, then Windows Phone 7 devices would be flying off the shelves left and right by now because they had/have awesome commercials. But if it doesn't resonate - if it doesn't get past the current programming that Android and iPhone are leaders in the industry, the marketing won't help at all. So go ahead HP, destroy the relationship Palm has established with users already. Go ahead and dig up the seeds that were laid a long time ago which would have to supported whatever marketing scheme you guys present. We'll revisit this about 6-7 months from now when your device launches and tally up pre-orders as well as launch date sells. If its not the gigantic spike that someone obviously feels it can be without the help from a current user base - then you fail; plain and simple. I, for one, will not be sympathetic to your spending of billions in order to make all this happen.
Wow, after saying all that - would Palm have been in better hands with another buyer? Right now, it's looking like it (possibly).
My contract also expires in June on Sprint. It is bye bye Sprint after that. 10 pre replacements later...In my area Verizon has always had superior coverage. All this BS about Sprint and launch day pre owners pisses me off. Where's my flash??? From last year for damn sake...Geez!
So...we'll see, if pre3 is out on Verizon by the end of June, webos may have a chance with me, otherwise hello iPhone. Spring didn't even get a pre+....they are getting squat. Rift at the highest levels.
Good luck with that iPhone. Locked down by the Cupertino Gestapo, have to hit the home button and close every app before opening another, and don't hold it the wrong way or BYE BYE.
I'm with Sprint and I just got a replacement Pre a few days ago, this is my forth Pre, since Dec 2009.
My Sprint Pre just broke a few weeks ago. I don't have the insurance, but I took it in to my local Sprint store, and they charged me a $35 "repair" fee then just gave me a new phone.
It's a shame what HP ans Sprint are doing. Sprint has absolutely nothing for me (besides pre) that I like or want. I have been going to different carriers checking out phones and plans. I am also telling everyone I know to never ever ever go to sprint or for that matter buy any phone or slab or the such from HP. They are not doing this thing right. I tell them it is not worth the headache. Go buy an iphone you are best off. At least they announce a product and release it when they say they are. Shame, because I do believe HP has absolutely no clue that the world has chsnged and comsumers are now very much empowered by all these websites and blogs. Oh and that comment they said about selling printers and pcs every whatever seconds. That sounded like a big SCREW YOU, towards us long time webos faithful. As if to say go you little bitches, we'll make money with or without you, we don't need you.
Up here in Canada, Bell still has them on their website so i'm sure they still have inventory.
Why don't they pull it from them.
Heck you can buy a brand new pre for $150 lol
I'm sure Sprint will have a stock pile for awhile. It doesn't need to be on the shelf to have them for insurance claims.
Many people in here have mutiple devices on family plans and cannot upgrade all of them till summer anyways, that is the case for us. Our 09 Pres are holding up fine and don't see any problem with them going until summer. By summer, if it is not Sprint that is carring the Pre 3, well, it was nice knowing you Sprint.
We were promised palm webos 2.0. Unfortunately that doesn't exist. What we're seeing is HP webos 1.0.
I'm boxing up my unlocked Pre 2 to send in for repair. After 8 weeks of use it developed a terrible static issue, especially for people on the other end of calls. The support people were very helpful, but it's a terrible nuisance, given how important my phone is for work. Fortunately I kept my Pre Plus (15 months left on the AT&T contract). From the articles I read, the Pre 3 sounds like it may finally be the well-round enterprise phone I need ... But I will be very careful before jumping into a new HP Palm device.
I completely share your sentiments as I await my third replacement phone in 2 weeks. My phone developed a creeping crack across the face. Sprint store quickly arranged a replacement. Replacement phone was delivered promptly but the phone component wouldn’t work (could not receive or place calls). After wasting over an hour with tech support line who thought it was a programing issue, I returned to the store. Tech guy there spent a few minutes looking at it and reported it had some kind of short . Out of the box the second replacement phone was defective in that the camera never worked -- but I was tired of the rigmarole and was just going to live without a camera. One week later, the phone component stopped working (crackling sound when dialing out or receiving calls just like the 1st one). I now have ZERO confidence that the third replacment phone coming to me this week is going to be reliable for the duration. It is truly a dilemma. All my options are undesirable. I like WebOS and want a working phone with my long time carrier Sprint. And I don't want a Pixi. I want a Sprint webOS Pre 2 or 3 now -- not later (much later it appears).
If anything is going to make me smash my pre its the youtube app. And Google Maps. theyre next to useless on this phone
I think a bigger issue is at hand. Palm is gone and quite frankly it was a hardware company. HP is also a hardware company and it seems with WebOS that it is doing what Palm did... make hardware with it's own operating system.
Yes... Apple does this with iphone and so does Blackberry. If HP was smart they would focus on the Touchpad and PC devices that run WebOS as well as their other hardware devices. Make WebOS specific phones as well BUT.... sell the WebOS to other companies that make mobile phones.
Could you imagine an Evo or any other fantastic phones out there that run on WebOS? Anyone could pick up a WebOS phone and connect to the touchpad, or HP pc idea. Similar to Android and Windows Phone 7 but to be able to connect to all these devices and have a choice of phone!
HP would be selling Touchpad's like crazy! And the revenue would only increase their capacity to create applications, build more hardware, continue updates to WebOS and make some really cool WebOS specific phones.
If iphone did this android would not be in the market today. Windows did it with PC's, why can't HP do it with everything?
Imagine a world without Windows?
Now imagine a world with Windows, Apple and WebOS. Who would win?
THey better come to market before the new Iphone. With Sprint adding the $10 data fee to every smartphone with or without Wimax, the price difference between them and other carriers is limited. I'll be one to jump ship, and there will be many just like me.
The last two iPhones have gotten little more than *yawn* from me. WTH is the deal with people? It's just trendy, not all that spectacular.
If you like a lot of aftermarket accessories, sure you have countless options, but with the Pre all you really need is the Touchstone. Simple, and it gets the job down.
Derek,
As of when will Sprint no longer hand out replacements?
I've gotten two after Nov 15. (Pennsylvania, USA)
M.
I'm in this category as well. My Sprint Pre has the oreo effect really bad, calls switch from headset to speaker randomly and there is a chunk of plastic missing from the back top where the mirror is at because I dropped it. I don't know how long it will last, but I'm sticking to it. I guess I'll have to find replacements online.
so I've been meaning to take my phone in for a replacement for a while now. The wifi doesn't work if I get more than a few feet from the router and my bluetooth doesn't work if the phone is more than arms length from the ear piece. This article made me nervous that I wouldn't be able to get a replacement phone if it couldn't be repaired.
I called my local sprint store to ask if they had any Pre's in stock & explained the problem with the phone. The rep said not to bother coming in as they don't have any available stock and they wouldn't be able to fix my phone either. So he ordered me a replacement Pre that should be on my doorstep by tuesday.
I recommend that anyone with Pre's on their last lag try the same thing. YMMV, the rep who answered my call was very polite and helpful.
I'm reserving judgment on HPalm until after they announce what they're going to do for us webos early adopters. For all you know we'll be getting a nice off contract pre2 or early access to pre3.
Ha Ha Ha.
I just realized I'm going to have to spend hours getting my patches, homebrew apps, kernel, hotspot, etc all functioning on the new device.
In January, 2006 HP announced their best Most Comprehensive Line of Digital Entertainment Products and Services in Its History.
In November of 2007 HP announced to Seek New Business Model for HP-branded Cameras. How much longer before they were out of the business?
The only good scenario is that in a year, or less than 2, they take a loss and spin off the software for hardware manufacturers to use. Hell, just sell to a consortium of HTC, Samsung, and Kyocera. Of course, by then most of the features will already be included in even RIM phones. Before any of you bitch about the previously mentioned manufacturers, just remember you have a Pre.
as stated before, the only real thing hp could do to make things better for those of us whose phones have been EOL'd (vzw pre+ here) would be a free/higly discounted pre 2 as a replacement WITHOUT using our upgrade tickets. That's really the only fair option at this point. Maybe something like we send in our pres & we get back a pre 2 fully activated & restored with our data. I was fully ready to stick it out with my pre + until my upgrade (in oct unfortunately) however just before the announcement my phone got stuck in headphone mode & started developing the usb door crack.. And there are no longer any replacement units..
I think alot of peeps here are missing Derek's point here. MOST Sprint Pre owners are the early adopters so they are out of warranty and will have to pay 100 bucks in copay for a device that is no where near that worth now through Sprint. So you go on craigslist and get a cheapy but its playing craps you are not buying off a burden.
My Sprint Pre has the legendary crack near the USB door and elsewhere and last month took to a store and which insurance they were going to charge me 100 bucks to give me a crappy low-end android device! Right now Sprint only cares about pushing Android this and Android that with 10 new phones out every month with better hardware.
No doubt VZW and ATT will get the Pre3 but Sprint has SOO many new android phones in their face that again the Pre3 will get ignored.
Good thing webOS is going tablet for I have a bad feeling this summer Sprint will reject again forcing my next phone to be a meh phone :(
I completely feel your pain. I work for sprint, and sadly, at this point in time, it is very unlikely that sprint will choose to carry the pre 3 :'( I heard from a palm rep that palm still loves sprint, and that they are trying to rekindle their relationship with sprint after the original pre disaster. I was told from a higher up at sprint, that sprint almost wants nothing to do with palm/hp or their hardware. Sprint lost a lot of money on the original pre, millions in fact. And from what I heard, palm refused to accept their faulty hardware, which flooded sprint repair centers on a daily basis.
This totally breaks my heart, because I am huge web OS fan, along with one other coworker. I always make the case that Sprint should try the new HP webOS lineup, it looks solid, and there is the biggest installed palm base on sprint, moreso than any other carrier.
So it doesn't look good, and i keep hoping that somehow Sprint will open their eyes and choose to give webOS one more chance. And stop releasing stupid gimmicky phones with two screens and call it a multitasker. That's embarrassing. I'm holding on, just like everyone else on here is..
I got a replacement pre sent to me from Sprint one month ago. At first when I signed up for the insurance on a whim, i felt like it was a waste of money. I haven't seen much of the terrible defects, such as the USB/Button crack, but I've had ringer switches go haywire and space bars stop working.
I had to push fairly far for the 2nd replacement, but I got it sent at no charge.
And re: the editorial. The fans are totally in their right to ask for refunds on their season tickets. For us in the real world, we can't ask for refunds but we can certainly voice our displeasure or choose to cut off our support altogether. Without that voice, we do not pave the road for reparation.
I am in the same boat as you are. It just a full year for me with my Pre, but I won't have my contract up till next Feb. But I am really liking Sprint a lot, and I love webOS, so I am really hoping that the Pre3 will come to Sprint as I don't want to leave them. If it won't then I might have to go to an Android phone (which I really don't want, rather stay with webOS as it's an awesome mobile OS).
I support the craigslist idea, i've had good success with that.
I wonder if you got insurance from a legit outfit, rather than carrier insurance, if you could get a better option. (Carrier insurance is a rip-off.. in just about everyway.)
I got a brand new replacement pre plus from Verizon in December - after everything was off their website but before the one year anniversary date. No problem.
Agreed. 100%. Well written Derek.
Heh, I think I will call up my provider and say, "Hey, the plan was for me to continue paying for my cell contract because there's still almost two years to go on it but, ya know how it is, after finding out that this here little phone won't be getting Flash and voice-dialing that was promised ever since I got it, my plan had to be changed. Sorry for the inconvenience!"
Where is the love? As a Mac user I have always loved Palm products because I never had a problem getting the two to work together. I owned the 600 through the Pre and everything else in between. I loved my 600 and 650. The 700p was a step backwards and we 700p owners got no love whatsoever from Palm. I wanted the Pre to be just as good as the iPhone and held out to buy it. I figured that in 2 years the Pre would be just as good as, or better than the iPhone, given Palm's history of wireless success and Apple's with far less. Boy was I wrong!
Last October, a friend of mine at AT&T knew of my frustrations with the Pre and asked me to come in and "just look" at the iPhone, no pressure. I was REALLY impressed with everything he showed me but as a loyalist to Palm I said "No, thanks. I'll keep my Pre. It's not THAT bad and besides Sprint service in the New Orleans area is great. No calls dropped, great prices, unlimited data...I'm cool." We shook hands, planned to have a beer later that night and I exited the store.
Walking to my car, I called my wife on my Pre and just as she answered the phone, my Pre decided to, yet again, re-boot itself for no reason. I walked back into the store, shrugged my shoulders at my friend, and before my Pre finished re-booting, I had already signed the agreement and paid for the iPhone 4.
And now I see HP talking about "coming soon...", "...this summer", "will be expected to do..."! And all I can think is, "deja vu, all over again!" Good luck to HP and everyone that sticks with the WebOS platform, sincerely. But just like Palm showed no love for us 600-to-650-to-700p users, HP seems to care little about the early WebOS adopters that made whatever success Palm had for it's new platform. RIP Palm. I'll miss you!
if my sprint pre broke in the near future and i can't find another for a decent price, i'd just be patient. sprint allows you to change your plan on the fly so i'd probably just revert back to my old flip phone and the plan that went with it until the pre3 is released. no need to get all huffy i imagine. trying to replace it with a different phone in the interim will only be expensive and frustrating.
OMG I'm getting tired of writing this over and over and over...
THERE ARE NOOOO PROBLEMS "adapting" WEBOS 2.X TO PRE-
I HAVE ONE CURRENTLY RUNNING WEBOS 2.0 WHICH I INSTALLED VIA WEBOS DOCTOR
it's a version adapted by MiltonMiguel to work on Telcel (Mexico). There's also a Sprint version out there.
2.0 runs just fine, full flash (menus, videos and even games), exhibition mode, improved battery life, stacks, 2D and 3D games runs well (angry birds, need for speed, n.o.v.a, etc), quickoffice, everything.
These adaptations were made by NON-PAID DEVELOPERS ON THEIR FREE TIME, I just don't get how in h€ll hp's well paid developing team can't make the same thing, or even worse: HOW CAN BE PEOPLE DEFENDING THEM AND MAKING UP EXCUSES.
So there's no denying it, the upgrade can be done and has been done (by non-paid and obviously with less resources -economical and documenting- than hp's own developers).
Well, that's very nice for you. And your 2.0 is, support wise, puts your Pre in the the same category as if you tried to load DOS onto your Pre. I don't think that's an approach that any vendor of any OS could go along with.
I hope you are somewhat joking in your comment. But, just in case you are indeed completely uninformed, think about the fact that every Pre+/- and every Pixi+/- in operation is sitting on some carrier's network, presumably running that caarrier's carrier-modified OS. Not just plain webOS, but carrier-modified webOS.
HP cannot simply start distributing (whether OTA, download, or otherwise) a 2.x update. It must ask carrier permission. I don't mean it must ask the carriers in a legal sense, although that may or may not be true under an agreement between either palm or HP with any particular carrier. I mean in a practical sense. If HP starts replacing the OS in phones that previously had a carrier-customized OS, the cariers won't like that very much. And HP might have just a little more difficulty establishing good carrier relations than it expected. You and I can screw with our own phones, and we can download a new kernel from WOSI if we wish. But if HP sends me a new OS and wipes out some Sprint-specific stuff, then there will be some acion of the legal variety.
In other words, the fact that you have 2.0 on your Pre ... doesn't mean sheet.
Cheers for the article. It definitely articulates a big part of my dissatisfaction with HP's handling of webOS.
As much as I've always cheered for Palm and webOS, it just doesn't seem as if that support is deserved any longer. Maybe in two years on the other side of whatever new contract I sign...
You folks are dreaming. The Apple credits were a huge win for Apple. People paid $600 for the iPhone, then price was lowered to $400. So people who paid the higher price got a credit for what? Half the difference. Meaning that Apple, quite obviously, still made a huge profit on their original purchase. And with that credit, they could only buy items at an Apple store (not AT&T), all of which also have huge markup, usually resulting in net profit on those sales.
Now try to think up a similar situation for HP. HP must make a profit when you use the credit, so the amount must be less than HP's profit margin on the phone. $200? NFW. Also, from your reduced purchase price for the new phone, a piece must go to the carrier as an incentive to participate in the upgrade of an EOL phone.
Don't overlook Derek's points about HP perhaps starting from scratch, and not relying on the existing customer base. HP has said they are making a new beginning. They stupidly made a comment about bringing 2.0 to the older devices in the coming months. So, if you make enough stink about the fact that HP has had more trouble than it thought, then we might get either a slimmed down 2.0, or some sort of discount coupon. Whoopty doo.
The speaker on my 3rd Pre just died. In order to replace the 2nd one that died, I had to reset my contract with Sprint. If I can't get a replacement Pre, I have no choice but to buy a new phone at full price, and it won't be a WebOS phone. I am not happy.
This isn't about brand loyalty or my liking for WebOS (definitely the best out there, IMHO) but what my options are right now. Maybe a few years down the road, HP.
I'm on my second pre plus and quite happy with it. I'm not in a hurry for new hardware because it does what I want better than anything else out there. If the 3 looks better to me whenever it shows up, I'll buy it at full retail. I'm not a fan of the bigger display though, so I may just get a 2 instead.
never say never.
it's still anyone's game at this stage but i would say not for long.
palm (when they released webOS) developed a history of over-promising and under-delivering. hello flash? hello 2.0? they have to work hard to EARN my trust after what has transpired with the eschewing of the loyal early adopters even while we tried to be patient with device failures and lack of apps. don't think by dropping the palm name and leveraging the potential
of "HP scale" that everything can be forgotten.
i'll wait and see how this whole vision of theirs unfolds because as of now it sounds intriguing but it is only just that. HP would do good not to take the consumer's trust for granted. i'm not giving HP/Palm a chance because of any special allegiance to a particular brand. of all the things to emulate...please don't attempt to draw out a cult-like following like...oh "that other brand". being a smart consumer means i am not irrationally attached to a brand but constantly evaluate all the options and make an informed decision when i am ready to make a purchase.
nothing thus far shown has been compelling enough to convince me HP has under-promised and over-delivered. in fact, until the summer...nothing is delivered.
-an open letter
BubbaHooska:
I know all the carrier issues you mention, and again, my point is... If a person with no resources, or official documentation, or a team of programmers backing him, and working only in his free time can adapt WebOS 2.0 to my carrier (yes, the carrier specifics work too in my phone)...
WHY HP CAN'T!!!
and even worse...
WHY THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE YOU MAKING EXCUSES FOR THEM
You don't need to do that, HP already said the reasons they won't:
1. There isn't enough power on legacy devices (which is completely false as I can see in my own phone)
2. There isn't enough time/resources on HP to do it as they prefer to focus on the new devices (which is completely WRONG bussiness-wise, those devices are not even out yet, they are in the imaginary still, contrary to all the current Pre and Pixi owners, who are REAL PAYING customers, is like Microsoft saying, "we will stop supporting Windows7 at all, because we are going to focus on our new OS that will have X new features and will be out next year, so, current users can go to hell"... Not very intelligent move for them or fair for the users don't you think?)
If HP don't make the update is ONLY because they don't want to, and nothing else.
So please bloggers and readers, stop making excuses for them.
I just can't understand why webos 2.0 is such an urgent issue for you. I really could care less. I'll be fine when it shows up on the next phone.
I just got my pre replaced last week
Yea, me too. I mean for $7 exta dollars a month i better get a replacement. They stop selling them, doesn't mean they don't have refurbished models in stock. But my contract does end in September and my upgrade in april, so i would like to see a good reason for me to stay on sprint by then.
This articulated everything I am feeling/thinking.
I'm on the Sprint network and don't worry my 10th Palm Pre replacement phone is on its way! Everytime I get one it lasts about a month and something different breaks. Oh the joy!
It would be sad if HP decided to sweep us early (and mostly still loyal) adopters under the rug along with the legacy hardware. My Sprint Pre finally died a couple of months back. Having bought it as Best Buy, they were unable (unwilling?) to repair or replace it seeming to have completely dropped all support for it. Fortunately, their insurance paid off and I was able to swap out for a Samsung Epic. LOVE the hardware (what the Pre should have been) and as mentioned before, the OS is quite capable with an incredible app catalog. I do however find Android lacking not only the elegance of WebOS but also the intuitiveness.
All in all, I'm sure that those of us who stuck it out as long as possible would love to have HP try to woo us back. I'm still a huge fan of WebOS, just a little gun shy about being left out in the cold again.
And, I should add that OS updates seem to be just as bad on the Samsung/Sprint phones as they have been promising Froyo for months.
I have this problem right now. My phone is in for repair at Best Buy and I have an Android phone as a loner. Since its a good bet that they wont be able to repair my Pre I'll probably be forced to go with an Android phone. OR try to get cash and go on eBay for a used Palm Pre.
Sprint are still offering replacement Pres, albeit refurbished. I got one last week.
Nice job Derek.
what they are doing to us is sad... but im not dumb... the are a large company, and as such are in the habit of making money at all costs.
the pre has been disappointment after disappointment, first the hardware... then palm not being able to advertise correctly and attract devs... no updated hardware on sprint... now, no 2.0.
Im disappointed b/c I truly believed in Palm.
you broke my heart palm... youre not my valentine!
Since my Pre minus was on on it's last legs in November and it looked like they were clearing out Pre inventory at Sprint I bought a new Pre minus for $50. It has a 1 year warranty.
The downside, I'll have to wait till November to upgrade my phone. And also I'm stuck on Sprint for a a year and 9 months more (in case I wanted to think about an iPhone).
God. This is OS/2 allover again.