Editorial: The un-penetrated market of non-smartphone users 110
Now that the AT&T HP Veer 4G has been released, there are plenty stories of people switching from other platforms because of this tiny device. It certainly does not look as though the Veer is going to be driving the masses of tech-junkies to sites like PreCentral and into our forums to learn more and get involved in webOS. This has been quite the bit of contention for a lot of the discussions of late - the HP Veer might be a great little device, but it's not enough. Android and iOS users are still more interested in their current devices (or the next update) than in the up-and-coming webOS platform (which they thought had died two years ago with the so-called abysmal Pre launch). You can see this by looking at the chart on right, which still shows our device sadly listed under the "Other" tag.
As the most passionate community of mobile device owners out there, the team of webOS users that inhabit this website are regularly concerned about what HP is doing to convert other smartphone users over to the platform. What kind of incentive is HP giving to these other smartphone users to make them desire webOS once again? With the first webOS device to be released since last year being the very tiny Veer, quite a few people are upset at the direction HP seems to be going. Those that are most passionately in love with their webOS devices are also the more passionately upset when it comes to what we might see as poor decisions by the makers of these devices, even though we don't know all of the details of these launches or products also in the pipeline.
It's worth considering that HP may not be entirely focused on converting other smartphone users to the webOS platform, but are instead focusing on those non-smartphone users that are still out there in huge markets all over the world. Asymco.com, a leader in mobile tech research and a provider of many excellent reports on real world data from smartphone users, has recently gave the world a simple chart (above) that breaks down the various devices that are widely used based on percentage of device owners. The overwhelming leader in this chart, far bigger than all of webOS, RIM, Windows and even iOS or Android users - combined - is the block of people who are still using non-smartphones on a regular basis. There are three times as many people not using smartphones as there are all of those smartphone users combined.
The question is not, "Can HP create a series of devices that will beat the iPhone or EVO at the smartphone game?" but instead, "Can HP release devices that will bring people into the smartphone world for the very first time using webOS?" There are several billion people in the world that have yet to own or use a smartphone - it is in the best interest of every manufacturer, including HP, to dive into that untapped market of non-users to bring them into the ecosystem.
This is exactly where HP has a huge advantage over the competition as well, at least that's what Leo Apotheker is banking on. As they are the world's largest computer and printer manufacturer, making devices that people from every walk of life will use whether they own a smartphone or not, they can introduce people to webOS much more easily than Android or iOS is able to (especially once webOS is on PC's or printers). With webOS running in people's homes, what kind of smartphone will they get when they finally decide to purchase one? They'll go with the platform that they are familiar with - the one that's already on their computer/printer and that has a similar form factor to the phones they've been using all of their lives (small flip phones, not huge bricks).
HP also recently hired Jukka Tiitu as the new VP of webOS and Carrier Markets, over Europe, Middle-East and Africa. Tiitu comes with a strong history working at Nokia in the same field, and if you know Nokia, you will know that this is great news for webOS. Nokia is currently the #1 phone manufacturer in those three major regions. With one of the major players in Nokia's success now joining the HP webOS team, you can expect some bases to be gained where Nokia was once bringing in the runs, and where iOS/Android were striking out entirely.
The world is much bigger than the small group of American and Western-European critics who say that the Veer is inadequate as a smartphone, and I believe this will be shown even more clearly within the year as webOS devices, including the Veer, are launched in markets all around the world. The Veer absolutely is a device for non-smartphone users (just look at the reviews from those new to the group), because that's the only market left for smartphone manufacturers to conquer. There is a strong need for HP to bring us a large slab at some point and a powerful tablet, I think we can agree on that. But there is also a need for HP to listen to the much larger group of potential buyers, non-smartphone users, and find out what they want in a device.
They want something simple to use, familiar to their lifestyle, and built by a company that they trust. HP has all three: webOS is simple to use, the Veer has a form factor similar to the small flip-phones that still dominate the world of phone users, and HP is the #1 computer and printer manufacturer in the world because they have built a name that people trust. These are the facts, and while we can still be disappointed in the current actions of HP in not demanding the Pre 3 to come to Sprint or giving us 2.x on our older devices or not giving us a release date for a slab - we must also realize that selling new devices to the same 100 Million people is not going to make a company profitable. Making devices that attract the other 7 Billion people in the world definitely will.
We are still in the very early stages of seeing who penetrates the market the most over the next several years, but I can't help but make a bet that HP is going to have a pretty good foundation to stand on soon. Maybe it's not right now, and maybe it won't be in the form that we want it to be, but it's coming. They are #1 in the world, bigger than Apple, Samsung, Dell and others, for a reason. But they didn't get to that point overnight, and Rome wasn't built in a day. Give them a bit more time, and I think we'll see a lot more good coming to our community than is currently expected.
Via: Asymco.com
110 Comments
This article makes sense and is a good read.
This makes a good point. My sister uses a non-smartphone, and was asking me what to upgrade to. She said, "I don't really need a smartphone. I just want one with a cool touchscreen." It didn't take much convincing to talk her into buying a smartphone, but she didn't want to spend more than $100 on it. Unfortunately, she's on Sprint.
There's always the Pixi (I think; I haven't been to a Sprint store in a while). Sure, it doesn't have wifi, and it's a tad outdated, but for a non-smartphone user, I think it could get the job done :3
I was tempted, but I didn't really think it was a fair and honest recommendation for what she wanted.
I have my wife on the Pixi trying to get her "integrated" into smartphones and she HATES it. Too slow, no wifi, small and dim screen.
She loves the OS, the phone is really lacking though.
The pixi on sprint was such a joke. Why would they make a "smartphone" phone without wifi?
Being on sprint is not unfortunate. It's awesome from a service/monthly cost wise. webos options wise it sucks. Android options wise it's also great.
I think if you look around she could get an Epic 4G for $100.00 these days. Damn fine phone. Not WebOS, but keyboard, gorilla glass, amoled screen, and pretty fast.
LG Optimus is free on sprint and pretty darn good entry level. Pretty much a Pre without a keyboard, a larger battery and optimized pretty well. Runs fast enough for me and gets 15 hours battery life easy. This is the phone I am using since I smashed my pre2 while running. I miss webOS.
I resemble that 75% of non-smartphone users. maybe the Pre3 if it ever comes to Sprint.
"With webOS running in people's homes, what kind of smartphone will they get when they finally decide to purchase one? They'll go with the platform that they are familiar with"
Myth (IMHO).
Actually, based on how the market has been growing over the last few years, it doesn't look like people care much if their phone is running the same OS as their appliances or computers. For example, many people have TiVo. Most people don't go out looking for a phone that is compatible with their TiVo. The vast majority of the world still runs Windows on their computers yet most people don't go looking for a "windows compatible" phone (judging from the declining windows mobile market share).
It's a good goal for sure, but I don't think that's how things are panning out.
I think there is a slight distinction to be drawn though. If a few devices on hand already had proper webOS installed, you might be more inclined to picks something up off of the shelf that had a familiar feel. It's not that you love the operating system that TiVo uses so much that you are compelled to go buy it. But if you use TiVo a lot, and find it user-friendly, you might be more inclined to buy the TiVo phone if you see it on the shelf.
But what would be effective about WebOS on a PC or an appliance would in no way translate to what's great in a smartphone. Microsoft got CLOBBERED for believing that Windows squeezed down into a smartphone size complete with "Start" button and task manager would be a world beater.
It only succeeded when the only competition was Blackberry and a complacent and decaying Palm. As soon as iOS and Android appeared, Windows Mobile died a quick death.
There is distinction to be made. HP isn't squeezing down to a smartphone, It's advancing to the PC platform. This is what enyo, the new development platform, was built for. It makes the apps easily scale to different screen sizes. It's already a great phone OS and they are supplementing that with functionality on the computer.
I agree.
A day in 2020
And from that video we see just how the editorial above makes sense.
It is hard for current Pre/Pixi users (at least this user) to recommend WebOS to friends and family when we know the phones we currently own are out of date and underpowered and it will potentially put a bad taste in new users mouths. We need the choice of Pre3, Veer and a multitude of carriers to choose from. HP also needs to pay off everyone possible to get the app catalog up to par.
HP Doesn't need to pay anyone, Developers should be paying HP for the honor of working on what will be, in the coming months, the worlds most used OS.
Get on board!
Unfortunately, the developers don't see it that way.
P.S., I did not give you thumbs down.
ha ha ha. developers should pay HP? lol. if you say so.
It's sarcasm folks. Pretty funny.
Ok I Get It The Larger Target Is The Non-Smartphone User but does that mean that you have to squeeze your existing user base out...
It's like the farmer who open the gate to chase some chickens at the same time he let the few he already had out...
Maybe it me but thats not smart, doesnt word of mouth count for something. To run a buisness you keep your existing costomers happy before you think about the ones you want to get in the door
--Sent from my dying sprint pre-
The choice is not mutually exclusive. Don't act like it is.
I half agree/half disagree. If the farmer is opening the gate to let 3 (disgruntled) chickens out, so he can chase 40 new chickens in, I would expect him to focus much more attention on the new chickens. Sure, he would like to keep the other 3 but he's better off restarting his flock.
But you see the problem is the 3 chicken are going to tell all the new chicken just how "disgruntled" the farmer made them and the chase will be as hard as possible
That's the half-agree part. I think that maintaining customer satisfaction is very important, but keeping few satisfied cannot get in the way of luring many in. I'm sure they would like the best of both worlds, but luring many in and slighting the few, current customers will be much more profitable than setting too much focus on the current customers and not going as strongly for new ones.
That only works if he can get a new flock of significant size.
Someone who gets it.
The tech nerds who write reviews and come to these sort of sites are the vast minority of the potential audience and as with any industry (and politics) completely out of touch.
The problem is the tech nerds that come to these sorts of sites are the ones that bought a launch pre and still have a launch pre.
It's not like the tech nerds hated the pre and veer and the rest of the world loved it and bought it. You can see on the chart. They didn't. They are the other. Of the first time smartphone buyers they are adopting mostly nonwebos so the momentum isn't in webos' favor either. But it's only the tech nerds that bought webos phones. The people buying webos phones are far from the majority or the mainstream.
And there-in lies the problem. So the original WebOS purchasers who waited in line on day one (myself included), should not expect HP to be catering to us.
For the future of the operating system, HP needs to go after the masses......it is likely the day 1 purchasers will come along.
Not all of us day one purchasers will be coming along.
Then what are you still doing here on this site and posting?
Train wrecks are fun to look at?
low blow dude.....too soon
As folks who frequent P|C it's easy to forget the big picture and demand HP provide us with our Pre3, or 4.3 inch WebOS slab right now, dangit! But we have to step back and look at the big picture, look beyond ourselves, and that's what this article highlights. That said, I would much appreciate if HP would release the Pre3 on all the US carriers sometime in the next couple weeks, and in the next couple of months release a big ol' webOS slab.
Great article Tim!
"But they didn't get to that point overnight, and Rome wasn't built in a day. Give them a bit more time, and I think we'll see a lot more good coming to our community than is currently expected."
The battle cry of us webOS apologists.
It's only been a week since HP bought Palm. Give it time.
It's only been a month since HP bought Palm...
It's only bee 6 months since HP...
It's only been a year...
"Making devices that attract the other 7 Billion people in the world definitely will."
You're not really serious about this, are you? You're looking at the possible market as being 7 billion people? You might need to rethink how many people are realistically in the smartphone market.
You have to write love letters to HP if you want HP to give you the good tips.
Positive writing here is what got them the exclusive about the Pre3 and its availability Date and carrier info. If they didn't fluff up HP would have never given the tip!
You're dumb. Both you, and the real Glenn Beck.
Ouch, no need to get personal man....
I guess they didn't write enough love letters.
HP shutting down open app feeds, putting PreCentral App Gallery and Preware into a bind
Completely inaccurate conclusion:
"With webOS running in people's homes, what kind of smartphone will they get when they finally decide to purchase one?"
Hmmm, if you use that analogy everyone who is running Windows will gravitate to WP7, everyone who is using a Mac will gravitate towards iPhone, and everyone using Linux will go to webOS/Android (by FAR the smallest percentage of users for an OS on home PCs).
Do you really think people care what OS is running on their printers? Who cares how intuitive it is -- IT'S A PRINTER!!
And if you are looking for those users who may be running their webOS apps in a virtual machine environment on Windows -- I think they will see Windows as their OS and not webOS (nor Android with BlueStacks).
WP7 is nothing like desktop windows. I would expect that's one of the reasons Widows 8 will look so much like WP7. I would also expect most people who run Mac actually DO gravitate toward iPhone, and...
You're simply missing the point.
For a non-smartphone user at Best Buy looking to one-up, and the notion is, "Well, for the same price, actually, you can get this phone, which runs an OS you're comfortable with, and can do ALL THIS..." well, it's a new option.
Oh, so they would be uncomfortable with Android, iOS, or WP7, but they'd be comfortable with WebOS? Riiiiight.
Huh? Sure it looks nothing like Windows, but what exactly does webOS look like to them? Are there going to be Cards on a webOS printer? Is there going to be a browser?
This author has made some phantasmagoric leap that millions of people will be using webOS at home and that it would be the logical choice for a smartphone OS.
He has his heads so far in the clouds and the oxygen level is so low and he is nearly passing out.
But that is the nature of P|C lately ... grasp ... grasp ... grasp. Frankly it has become quite pathetic.
But before you ask why I still come here, it is because it is like a bad traffic accident -- you just can't not look.
stop rubbernecking or you will crash your os here too
That's the problem: you don't know what a printer or appliance with webOS will look like. You have no idea. Neither do I...but then, I'm not the one saying, "Are there going to be cards?"
As a result of your lack of knowledge, you are making the same grandiose leaps as the author of this piece. You're just making them in the opposite direction.
From what I've read so far, the PlayStation Phone is pretty appealing to PlayStation users. I realize that's not an apples-to-apples comparison, but that's not really my point. My point is that it's possible to create brand appeal across distinct devices. It remains to be seen how HP will accomplish this, but we are only watching the end of the incubation stage.
And then somebody does an ad like this:
A day in 2020
And we see just how the editorial above makes sense.
I don't think HP is making a mistake in trying to get better market penetration. I have nothing against the Veer, and (even as a power user) I would consider buying one if it were on Sprint.
I think HP is making a mistake in alienating loyal webOS users (especially those of us who bought our Pres back in the sepia-tinged Ought-Nine months), and I think HP is underestimating how important it is to have "user-ambassadors" when you're trying to achieve the market penetration this column discusses.
Finally, I think the point is rapidly approaching at which HP has lost the bulk of us that would admirably serve as "user-ambassadors." When *I* -- a huge webOS fanboy -- am scoping out which Android device I'll be getting once the Pre3 is announced and it's not on Sprint, HP has a problem.
I think what matters most is the two questions a non-smartphone user will ask when looking for a new phone: "What phone meets my needs?" and "Is that phone available from my carrier?" If it isn't, then I think they'll simply look for a phone that IS available that best meets their needs.
In other words, they won't switch carriers for a phone because they don't care about loyalty to a brand, just how well the phone works for them. Assuming they're happy with their mobile phone plan, switching carriers for the average mobile phone user just for a particular phone is too much hassle.
Too much hassle for me, too. I really want to stay with WebOS and HP; however, if the new Pre 3 ain't on Sprint, I'm pretty sure I'll leave the world of WebOS. And I've been using smartphones since they came out, but I've been on Sprint even longer. Another carrier would have to make me an offer I couldn't refuse because my plan is just fine.
3rd consideration is price. Many non-smartphone users aren't very happy to turn $150-$200 over for a smartphone.
considering you can get smartphones for free now i'm not sure price a big hurdle. And with many at $49.
I don't think it's the up front price, I think that many non-smartphone users don't want to add $30 a month to their bill.
You can get a smartphone for nominal money, but the ongoing cost is significant. Most of the non-smartphone crowd can't afford a smartphone plan.
I have to agree. For the non-smartphone ('I just need to make calls or text') user, there are couple of categories that stand out - (1) fear - feel intimidated/don't feel 'smart' enough to use smartphone or (2) money - can't afford extra money for data+phone plan. There are plenty of much cheaper phones (and carrier non-data phone plans) out there that meet their needs. A lot of my family members and friends (for the most part) are definitely in the non-smartphone category.
When I fly home for family visit, it's like show and tell. My family loves my Pre Plus... likes keyboard (but they wish it was blackberry size - they don't want to adjust down), loves how I can download music, surf the web, play games, use navigator... they ask me to search for things all the time; HOWEVER, when I'm not around they are perfectly happy going to their laptop/standalone computer or other device (xbox/ps3/gps device) for those needs.
They are perfectly happy using their phone just for calling, texting and the occasional web surf. I think they are also intimidated by/fearful of the 'smartphone'. I'm considered a tech-geek to them (smile). They expect me to have the 'smart' gadgets. They just want the phone for the regular folks. If HP could come up with a marketing strategy/approach that could pull in that demographic... they will hit the mother lode.
With tough economy, a lot of the non-smartphone users do not want to pay an extra $20, $30, $50 a month for data plan, in addition to what they are paying for the phone plan. Just about everyone in my family (at least 5 members) over the last 6 months have switched to Boost Mobile and they all have Blackberry phones... calling and texting away. If HP could offer a webOS phone as part of Boost Mobile, I think that is one way to get a foot in the door... that's how they can get it into non-smartphone user hands. Prior to being on Boost Mobile, they were on Sprint. Sometimes, it's just boils down to money (and what is affordable each month).
paygo would have been a perfect spot for the Pre 2.
I totally agree with this assessment. It is as if I wrote this commentary. My family is exactly like yours. This past weekend, I spent an hour on the phone with my mom who wanted a replacement phone but she passed on a free refurbished Palm Pre Plus on AT&T because she did not want to pay for the data plans that AT&T offered. She purchased a Nokia C5-03 on Amazon because of the 5MP camera and the fact that she could just slip her SIM card into it without having to modify her current plan. You are totally right in that HP has to find a way to get around Carriers somehow in order to access this segment of phone users.
The article has some very good points, and I agree that targeting all the non-smartphone users makes some sense. Unfortunately the smartphone field is very fast moving with Android, Apple, heck even Microsoft all showcasing new products like crazy. HP / Palm has not really innovated with a lot of new features / hardware / software since the Pre has first showcased in January 2009. Thats my biggest concern, they just don't seem to be moving quick enough to keep up with the field. (And oh yeah, the promises.....flash, editable office docs, "just wait, we have great things coming out").
I would love to see most new smartphone users jump to webOS, but we need products and promotions pronto, not promises and potential.
"Unfortunately the smartphone field is very fast moving with Android, Apple, heck even Microsoft all showcasing new products like crazy. HP / Palm has not really innovated with a lot of new features / hardware / software since the Pre has first showcased in January 2009."
Yep! That's why Jon said:
"Revenues for the quarter and full year are being impacted by slower than expected consumer adoption of the company’s products". - Jon Rubinstein 2010
We all know what happened after that. There are some differences in how HP is handling all of this, but so far, I have to ask...is it enough? Other than the TouchPad, they are releasing/announcing the same phones over and over with some minor differences. The problem is...they've all produced "slower than expected consumer adoption".
Time for a change?
As already pointed out by several readers, the logic in this article is laughable. If having the greatest "reach" (in HP's case via the tens of millions of PCs and printers they sell) had ANY bearing on success or adopting new users to the smartphone game, then they should've had a homerun with the Zeen eStation whatever, right?
The world's most popular printer company combined with the most popular OS (Android) for a tablet printer combo...what could go wrong?
Turns out everything.
And this idea that salvation will arrive by selling to emerging markets...yeah. Let's see how developers flock to an ecosystem primarily made of cheap smartphone users who use little data and just want to text/IM/email. Seems to be working wonders for RIM/Blackberry's ecosystem and bottom line, since that's the most popular "smartphone" in most of the world to new users who just want to message using BBM. Oh, wait...their marketshare and mindshare is plummeting, and developers don't care about Playbook or the App World either.
There are no shortcuts. Make a product that has mass appeal, is well-priced, and is widely available. Then, promote it with AGGRESSIVE launches instead of soft ones. Then...here's the crazy bit...communicate your plans and developments to your users regularly. Works for Android. Works for iOS. HP has no interest in being that successful in the mobile game, it seems.
Hey Mr. Negative.
Go to BestBuy and try and get a Veer, you can't, SOLD OUT!
Go to BestBuy and try and get a TouchPad, you can't, SOLD OUT!
I am tired of all the complaining here, HP has done an awesome job since taking over Palm. They have delivered and answered all our questions here, especially with the aggressive style of Blogging that Derek and Tim have been doing!
We finally know what "We will make it Right" means because neither of them let up on HP. Thank them, do not criticize!
This is performance art, right?
Amazing. That's simply amazing.
This is one of the silliest articles I've read lately.
Every maker out there is already targeting the dumbphone market. It keeps shrinking for a reason. Where does the writer think all the smartphone growth is coming from?
If these other makers like Apple thought a 2" phone had mass appeal, they'd make one.
Can HP do any wrong? Not according to Precentral. Let's even write an article crying that Apple stole from webOS. Boo hoo, it's just not fair.
How about the logic that "they" want something they are familiar with, so HP makes a fat, tiny vertical slider that is NOTHING like a flip phone, candybar, or horizontal slider that most dumbphones look like.
Or that HP making computers millions are familiar with is a "HUGE advantage", which is why their Windows Mobile-equipped iPaqs were a crushing failure while their Windows 7 and XP-equipped PCs sold quite well.
I mean, it's just pure silliness.
Pick a crowded spot and watch what kind of phones people are using. Very few of them (even the smartphones) are big black bricks!
Enough crying about dying phones. If you need a new phone GET ONE! Sprint turned down the Pre Plus, Pixi Plus, Pre 2 and have said they have no plans at this time to carry the Pre 3. Take a hint folks, If you want a WebOS phone go to VZW or AT&T. If you're staying on Sprint, they have a lot of nice smartphones to offer. You don't alway get what you want outa life.
It's HP's responsibility to offer favorable terms to Sprint and make it happen. Samsung's phone prior to the Galaxy S was the Galaxy, a bug-ridden joke that they abandoned doing updates for.
Less than a year later, they were the leading Android manufacturer and had Galaxy S devices on EVERY MAJOR US carrier, even regional ones. It's not because all of these carriers had a change of heart and decided to give little 'ole Samsung one last chance. They released amazing hardware and committed to a big print and TV ad campaign.
HP is a much bigger company and just as capable of the same. They just don't have the will which is why so many users are disgruntled.
Why offer favorable terms to a company that doesn't want your products? Sprint, like your Palm minuses, is dying. In spite of all the great improvements they've made, they are still losing boatloads of money.
Little ole Samsung makes dozens of phone models a year and has always had models on all carriers. HP has doesn't yet compare as a phone manufacturer.
Sprint losing money has nothing to do with HP. Sprint MAKES lots of money for HTC and Samsung.
As for Samsung, the first smartphone they had on a all major carriers - national and regional - WAS the Galaxy S. There was no precedent. Samsung just decided that being exclusive to one or two carriers wasn't good enough, and did the work necessary to bring EVERYONE aboard despite just having put a smartphone that as a bust that alienated a lot of customers.
Sound familiar? HP could do the same if they wanted. Samsung didn't start as a major Android manufacturer. They elbowed their way in. HP must do the same.
Sounds as familiar as the thousand times I've heard someone complain about their dying phone, which was my original point.
I don't like HP's glacial pace either. But getting their phones on the two largest, and growing carriers first, make business sense.
They are big in pc's and printers, not phones, I suspect it will be a long time, if ever before they can pull off a Galaxy style release.
Getting their phones on the carrier that already has the most WebOS fans makes even more sense because that is - as they say in corporate parlance - low-hanging fruit. Whatever financial incentives it takes to bring Sprint onboard are PENNIES compared to the amount of money they will have to spend to advertise to and convert hundreds of thousands new WebOS users on Verizon and AT&T.
Just getting the phones on Verizon and AT&T doesn't make smart business sense. Or do you think the Pre 2 was a rousing success on what was the nation's largest carrier at the time?
If a corporation HP's size can't service existing customers on Sprint AND shoot for new ones on Verizon and AT&T at the same time, then they have no business in this field.
I'll let you have the last word on the endless new phone on Sprint debate. I have a Pre 2 on VZW and I'm happy.
On the original subject, I am glad that HP is considering more hand friendly models, I think there is a market for them.
I hope you get the phone you want, and that Sprint survives and kicks butt, (I still have a phone with them too).
Everyone will save themselves lots of aggravation if they remember that big companies move a lot slower than small ones, and they seldom innovate. (Even Apple just polishes other guys ideas and makes them better).
My guess is that Verizon probably throws in "no Sprint" as terms for carrying webOS.
Otherwise if HP wanted webOS on Sprint, it'd get done. It's not as if Sprint has a lot of leverage.
Who Cares, if not for Sprint, Palm would still be palm and have iphone's market share, plus 1 and android would be on life support.
If you ask me Sprint ruined Palm!
And how long did it take Samsung? A **** of a lot more than 1 year.
Samsung has been making phones for a LONG time, they did not become a major player over night.
Now, it may seem like that to you, because you were not paying attention like you are with HP.
I have a veer and its a shame that this phone is not on sprint or verizon. Its an awesome little phone and the most powerful webOS phone I have ever used. I love the magnetic adapters even though some have complained, i think its awesome to get into a dark car at night and find that wire and just get it close to your phone and hear it snap in. Great battery life too and its starting to get more apps compatible. The devs really need to step up and mark them as veer compatible because most of the apps work fine as is.
Good article -- thanks! One of the first things I did when considering the Pre as my first smartphone was guage whether it would fit my pocket.
The second was to play with the interface.... having never tried WebOS before, I was a bit lost but, it had a 'back button' like the iPhone so I was able to figure it out' [yes, I realize I was wrong, but, that was my original impression].
The third thing I evaluated was whether it had the 'stuff' to take-over for my trusty Palm T|X (that's a whole other story).
Admittedly, most 'dumbphone' users would stop somewhere around step 2, but, the fact remains that WebOS -- in all of it's intuitive gestures brilliance, isn't immediately obvious.
Once WebOS can get a bit more polish (think the Mail App, Tasks, Notes, etc..) and be intuitive out-of-the-box, I think it will be a home-run for new Smartphone users.
--- IF ----
Carriers can also provide a low-data/low-cost option for those who don't want to see their monthly bill jump far from $30.00.
if find the line of reasoning interesting, That like the veer is for people that don't want a smartphone. Especially since the Veer is a smartphone.
Nobody 'doesn't want a smartphone.' Nobody goes to the store saying, "There's no way I'm going to get talked into getting a smartphone - NO WAY!"
There are, however, people who don't think they need, would use, or could even understand a smartphone. There are people for whom a smartphone is too big, too cumbersome, or too pricey.
Enter the Veer.
I know this analogy will get torn apart at the seams, but try to understand the point: it's like going into a Ford dealership wanting to buy a simple mid-sized sedan because it's in your price-range, and finding you can buy a Mercedes with all the trimmings for the same price. You'd be happy with the Ford, but you'll be happier with the Merc.
Actually there are lots and lots of people that don't want a smartphone. Stop making up facts.
There's no price advantage on the Veer. AT&T offers many more powerful, better spec'd and more popular smartphones for less than $99. Now, the Atrix is the exact same price.
So it all comes down to size, and I think that if the 3.1-inch "river stone" that was the Pre and Pre 2 failed on those fronts, a smaller version of the same will do no better.
Guess you have not been paying attention to prices.
And the Veer is truly a small phone. The Pre is not. The Pre is a "normal" sized phone.
Whatever you say dude..
That's a good analogy up to a certain point. Then, once you have the Benz, you have to pay for more insurance, and possibly more gas than you would with the mid-size Ford. So, in the long run, it'd still be cheaper with the Ford (the 'dumbphone'). And I don't think everyone "wants" a smartphone, but rather, they wouldn't mind having one.
As usual, great read Tim. I really hope HP releases some fire soon. If for no other reason than to stem the whining that goes on here. I can't even read the forums like I used to because the whining is so prevalent. I understand the waiting is frustrating but the whining isn't going to cure anything.
Stop blaming the carriers folks. webOS so far has failed on every single carrier it has been available on. At some point, one must look at the OS and see if there is anything there that "may" be causing this.
Not true MR. Misinformmation!
Pre 2 has done awesome on verizon. It sells so well that they don't even have to advertise it!
Have you ever seen a pre2 advertisement, no way, and look how well it's doing!
They need to advertise all the time for Android and iPhone, just to get a few people to buy one.
wow-we!
you should start writing for P|C you would fit right in
The OS is not the problem.
Nope, it's everything else right?
Yes, that is correct.
Poor build quality on the original Pre was teh #1 problem.
Poor marketing, etc., etc...
But the OS is not one of the problems.
The OS is THE #1 thing about WebOS phones.
You do realize that it was the OS that didn't support many types of apps due to a lack od APIs right?
You realize that a lack of optimization is one oth the reasons for the lag?
Many developers have complained that Palm did not provide an upgrade path for their old PalmOS apps in the SDK (part of the OS).
Before the PDK, many developers were not comfortable with having their code in plain text (a problem Palm promised to address before simply saying "it's not our problem, but yours" in the SDK agreement).
DataViz, before leaving blamed Palm and the lack of required APIs.
Three words: Too Many Cards
But no, there are absolutely no problems with webOS.
THANK YOU! This is so clearly the market hp is trying to attract & rightly so. I know a lot of people who are turned off by the whole 'it does everything you could ever possibly think of' depiction of smart-phones. A lot of people just want something that does it's core functions well & is easy to navigate, which is why webOS is in such a good position to fill that void. So it doesn't stream live tv or do your taxes. So what? I don't need that & I don't have the smallest desire for it either. I want to text with a real keyboard, make calls easily, listen to music, browse a couple websites & occasionally watch a youtube clip. With webOS I can do all I need (& all at the same time for that matter). Why is lack of frivolity a bad thing these days?
Yep, these simple minded folk want a phone that lags badly, has an OS in beta still, lacks an ecosystem of any kind, needs exchanged every few weeks, and only has a few crappy (mostly abandoned) apps in the catalog brought to you by a few starving devs. Not only that they still want to pay the same amount per month as you would for a premium smartphone.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Of course not :P
My Pre 2 on 02 UK running 2.1 doesn't lag has not had to be returned and I never had to return my original Pre either.
It works great with my laptop through wifi media sync and Neato, syncs with Songbird for my music, has zumodrive, box.net and dropboxify for cloud storage, has fantastic weather and news apps such as Newsroom & Beebnews and The Weather Channel & aniweather just examples there are many more news and weather apps.
Has turn by turn 3rd party navigation through NDrive. Radio station apps such as Tunein by Radio Time or UK Radio for live streaming of music and talk stations.
For business I use TripThat, Presently, Linkedin, Facebook, Carbon (Twitter), Hotels by me to name a few.
Has games and puzzles, a keyboard, card stacks for multitasking made easy, voice dialling and the excellent 'just type' it all works together.
Sounds to me you are not happy with the webOS system and phone so why not trade it in and then you will be happy after all it is only a phone and not your life, you are free to leave webOS, HP and this site whenever you want too.
The problem with you argument is that you are trying to pretend that people without smartphones are not happy with the fact that they don't have a smart phone while at the same time trying to say that these people don't want any extra features. You are pretending that everyone is dying to upgrade...but not too much. What all these billions of people wan is exactly what webOS provides? Guess what? That's not the case and HP is NOT the only one trying to capture this market.
WWDC 2011 is showing that Apple is actually growing the software lead it has away from its competitors. By the time webOS has Touch-to-Share implemented and capable of sharing a URL between two webOS devices in physical contact (actually never seen two webOS devices in the same place), iOS will have cloud sharing of contacts, pictures, music, documents, apps, and text messages.
The API's to transfer any kind of app data via iCloud are already in the hands of developers. Apple sends 1000 engineers to meet with developers all this week. There's simply no way that HP can compete with that. They aren't going to so don't expect it.
Again, someone who has not been paying attention.
Apple is trying to catch up in these areas...they are not blazing a new trail here.
Catch up to who? HP? LOL #headinsand
HP, Amazon, Microsoft.
/smh
Say what you will about the size of the Veer, but I love mine. Couple that with the fact I purchased it for $1.07 with the first contract extension I have done in 5 years with AT&T, it's a win for me. On top of that, I will be getting the TouchPad when it hits, and I will be in touch-to-share heaven. BTW, I'm not one of those people that consume a huge amount of data. I find most of my use is at home, while connected to wifi, and it's just nice to have the ability of data access on the fly.
LOL @ touch to share heaven
While you have to physically bring your webOS devices together, people on iOS will get the same functionality no matter where their devices are in the world (assuming a valid data connection of course).
So if I'm on vacation and take a picture with an iPhone, that picture is automatically pushed to my other iOS devices or Mac. If I'm surfing a page on my iPad I can continue with that page on my Mac, iPhone or even windows machine. Same goes for documents music etc. And here you are celebrating the ability to share a single URL by physically bringing your phone and tablet together.
The non-smartphone will always be popular until they make plans not exceedingly expensive for smartphones
While I agree wholeheartedly with the overall premise of the article, I think the numbers are a tad misleading. I would love to see a breakdown of the non-smartphone users. At least a large plurality must be people who don't want or need a smartphone. And since it's clearly global, a lot of those individuals are probably also in regions without wireless data infrastructure.
Same numbers essentially for the U.S. Only 25% of phones in the U.S. are smartphones and that includes calling BlackBerry devices smart, which I have a really hard time doing for anything other than the OS6.0 devices.
My Pre just died! I've had the same phone since launch day! never changed it! I is all beat up! software still works but the jack where you connect the charger to, was loose and now is broken. I don't have a tochstone charger so i'm screwed!
Sprint say the phone is beyond repair, the screen developed that crack around the mini usb, the power button is not working the way is supposed to. Software is mad slow and unresponsive. I'm surprise at how long I got this phone working!
I'm really upset at Palm, they forgot about us webos users in sprint. I am eligible for an upgrade and sprint don't have any webos phones I can upgrade to. WebOs have the biggest user base in Sprint and they continue to launch phones with other carriers.
Right now I have no other option but to get an Android phone, I will get the Evo 3d basically against my will cause I have to use my upgrade! I don't like Android but the hardware is so good! I was hoping for the Pre 3 on Sprint but that is all we've been having. Only hope!
Ruby it is unbelievable that in more than 2 years we don't even have a decent phone, people wanted a bigger screen and what you do; push the veer out the door first! I hope you'll be the first one out the door once you fail a second time!
I am in the same position. I have been going through Refurb'd phones like crazy, but obviously none of them have ever really been fixed from their original woes. It's frustrating. I had my original Pre and it worked great for nearly two years until it drowned in an unfortunate pool incident.
I think it says something that I am considering getting another refurb or buying a used one on ebay or something to stay on WebOS while I have an upgrade available to me.
I'm not praising HP for what they've done, because it has seemed slow with many empty promises. I also don't praise the hardware (although the Veer and Pre 3 look awesome). But I just can't get myself away from the beauty of the OS. It's intuitive and works the way I do with real multitasking. I love it.
In all communities of faith with millenarian beliefs -- as we saw with the recent "rapture" predictions in America -- when the prophesied day comes and goes and neither the rapture nor the end of the world actually happens, members are confronted with a choice:
1. Leave the community of faith out of a sense of disillusionment and betrayal, or
2. Adjust the expected date of deliverance (we thought it was this Saturday, but now we're sure it's next month, really!) and keep praying.
YMYM
welcome to our website:
------- http://www.chic-goods.com/ --------
if you like to order anything you like.
More details,
please just browse our website Quality is our Dignity;
Service is our Lift.
enjoy yourself.
thank you!!
------- http://www.chic-goods.com/ -----