Flash on webOS: The quiet before the... anything? | webOS Nation
 
 

Flash on webOS: The quiet before the... anything? 155

by Derek Kessler Thu, 23 Sep 2010 12:42 pm EDT

Flash Player not available on webOS

That screen you see above, that’s what shows up when you point a webOS phone to get.adobe.com/flashplayer. We’ve gone through many iterations of this screen, with the text prior to this one promising that Palm and Adobe were working to get Flash Player 10.1 onto webOS “as quickly as possible.” That came in July, and before that it was the second half of 2010, or the first half of 2010, or February, or by the end of 2009.

Obviously, not a single one of those has panned out (excepting the "second half of 2010"), despite the fact that we’ve been seeing Flash running on webOS devices since October of last year. And Adobe announced in June (of this year) that the finished version of Flash 10.1 had been released to their mobile platform partners, Palm included. It’s been three months since Palm supposedly received Flash, and in the meantime we’ve seen Adobe tinkering with download redirects. But now the message presented to webOS users is nearly as depressing as that given to iPhone users. It now reads:

Sorry Adobe® Flash® Player is not available from Adobe.com for your device’s operating system or browser.

Sad, eh? Having received this message ourselves and a number of tips from users like yourself, we decided to investigate, only to be met with nothingness. Our contacts at Palm had nothing to report, which is better than what we got from Adobe. Despite repeated requests for comment, we were met with stony silence from the folks at Adobe.

So the question remains, do we even care anymore? Sure, Android has Flash Player 10.1, so long as you’re running the right version of the OS on the right device. Even then, with the massively superior hardware that we’re seeing crammed into more and more Android devices, the Flash experience is still less than ideal. It’s slow, it’s cranky, it’s resource hogging. It's, well, it's Flash.

Android devices may be selling like gangbusters, but there’s still a large and influential player in the smartphone market that wants nothing to do with Flash: Apple. We’re not the biggest cheerleaders of the bitten fruit brand and their iOS operating system (though will continue to laud them for outstanding advertising), but at this point we’re understanding their position on Flash. In fact, we’re moving from understanding to agreeing.

Do we want a slow and painful experience on our mobile devices? No. Nobody wants that. It’s not like Flash is really a great experience on our desktop computers, and they’re several times more powerful than anything you can fit in your pocket. There are still some things that modern HTML5 browsers cannot do that Flash can, but here’s the question: between increasingly capable HTML5 websites and fully capable PDK apps, is there any need for Flash?

Category:

155 Comments

first!

One day when I have more time I'm going to spend enough time on here to become a Mod, just so I can delete your stupid useless post and ban you if you do it any more. Until then, enjoy being a dumb sh!t

One day when I have more time, I"m going to spend enough time on here to become a Mod, just so I can delete your stupid post with offensive language and ban you if you do it any more. Until then, enjoy having a vocabulary so minute that you have to employ offensive language to articulate your thoughts.

On the contrary, I think "dumb sh!t" was a suitably eloquent and spot-on characterization.

if someone gets there rocks off by being first let them be. us talking about it is more spam than the "first" guy

Another ignoramus who has sank low to the depths of culture. It a sad commentary on society when people don't know what eloquent means.

It's 'has sunk' not 'has sank'.

"has sunk"

I mentioned this change in the adobe site in the forums weeks ago.

Is there any way i can send news to precentral other than the forums? For example, Palm has 3 smart cars driving around harvard sq in cambridge MA all this week but I don't know how to let pre central admins know this, in case they want to post it and spread the word.

Um, possibly the "Tip us!" link under the "pre|central.net|store" links on the right side of the page?

http://www.precentral.net/contact

Dud take your pre snap it in half then cut your neck with the broken parts so u bleed out and die

"Dud", open your Pre and snap off the keyboard so you cannot post here.

Seriously, are you 10 years old. Grow up.

My friend has Flash on his iPhone. Somebody in their community just ported it over somehow. He has demonstrated it to me. I don't understand why, with our HUGE homebrew community, nobody has done the same thing. What gives?

lies...

webOS can get Flash but it has to earn it.

HaHaHaHa

classic. :)

Now that was funny. When I saw that post about the Verizon iPhone I was wondering how they go about earning it. I guess the iPhone is some type of merit badge that must be earned. I guess having the most subscribers doesn't quite cut it.

Adobe is the girl you like that keeps.... leading you on ......and leading you on.....and then you grow up a little ....move on.......then you say to yourself.......in a year or two she will be begging me for the attention I once gave her. Screw you adobe.

Kinda like Docs To Go? :-)

Except DTG was "vaporware" and we never saw any actual proof of the app. Adobe SHOWED us the app RUNNING on a Pre!! Remember these??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLyVGOpJm1M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpI6gA9cuME&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7PLA8BIQHo&feature=related
(p.s. I'm a pacifist (maybe 90%) and I now would love to punch this guy in the face (the 10%))

Where those post-prod editing tricks? CGI overlay? It's obvious the Adobe module was ACTUALLY on the Pre so WTF happened?? Where did THAT app go exactly?? Doesn't make sense why this was scrapped.

I would guess that it had stability or performance problems that made it not distributable as-is. I doubt that Palm or Adobe would choose to throw away something that worked perfectly. Remember, in a demo they will choose the items that they know work perfectly.

Adobe is the girl that calls you every week after you dump her, to tell you how much you miss her....and dont deny it!

Adobe is keeping her WebOS innocence until the honeymoon. Then will found out that she lacks refinement in the space after that big night.

I would like to have flash just so I can view some sites without having to go to a PC.

YouTube for starters. Using the YT app on the phone is annoying.

Uh, so just go to the YouTube mobile site? It works perfectly.

I say speak for yourself, flash works well on my Evo and i'm loving it.

How much do you actually use it? I'm not being critical. I'm just curious. What and how do you use it through out the day?

my only need for flash on my palm pre is for catching the palmcast live, cnet broadcasts live, the onion, and ustream. that's it. as soon as there are alternative streaming solutions, i will have no further need for it.

Thanks for the input. That makes sense. It would be nice to get live streams vis flash. Good to hear that functionality exists. It was also informative to learn from the poster below that you can use flash on demand and avoid pop-up flash ads. Not having Flash isn't a deal breaker for me, like it is for others, but I would love to have it in order to refine the whole WebOS experience.

Congrats. Why are you posting this on a WebOS blog?

Perhaps he shared his experience with Flash performance on Android because this article mentioned Flash performance on Android.

I use it on my EVO as well, just like how I use it on my computer (that is to say, when I need it, I'm glad I have it). The nice thing about the mobile version is that it has an on-demand mode. So I don't have to see all the crappy flash ads, but I can see any flash content that "I choose".

I really want flash because when I'm in the middle of a workflow or task that takes me to a site that uses flash, it's very frustrating to have to stop & move to a computer. It's unbelievable that we're still waiting for it but don't hear anything from who ever is holding it up because we know it's out there!

So HTML5 will replace the need for Flash?

Evo user in a WebOS room? gay.

I gave up about caring for this back in June. There was a drought of good Pre info from March to June, so it was the only thing to hold on to. Now I just care about the next big homebrew app or patch, pdk app, WebOS 2.0, or hardware. Just funny how the Pre went from being marketed as the first phone to have Flash to not getting it at all. Would live to hear the real story someday.

I tired of people saying we don't need or want flash. stop buying into jobs BS. I'd rather have a slow flash that I can turn off then no flash at all. I'm definitely not buying a tablet without flash.

Agree! It's a choice thing. Give me the choice and I will decide to exercise it. I do not need Flash everyday, but when the time comes and I must have it (slow or not) I can choose to use it. Until something more prevalent and equally functional comes along I WANT FLASH!

Im just "eh" with flash on my phone. Its not a necessity, just something cool. Most web pages have mobile sites anyway. But there ARE some benefits to having it. Id like to go to the full site of Youtube and watch videos that the mobile youtube doesn't have. Some sites are completely done in flash. And I think flash sites are becoming more and more popular. Being a graphic artist, I think flash sites would be cool to look at on a phone. but again, not a necessity. I do have a computer too.

At this point, I don't really care and doubt that Palm/HP have any big surprises in store. I'm looking for the first chance to bail for an Android phone.

What's stopping you? Not like there's a shortage of Android based devices.

Yeah, if you did not jump for the Galaxy S line you ain't going anywhere.....

can I have your pre when you bail? I need to replace my gf's piece of crap Reclaim.....

Sounds kinda pitiful. Like when the geek gets rejected by the hot cheerleader... "well who wants a girl like that anyway"

Adobe has snubbed Palm. Palm users really want flash. Palm promised flash as did Adobe a long time ago. It was the very reason I chose the Pre, from my centro, instead of iphone. I saw it running on pre with my own eyes!!! In Adobe's demo video.

This just another "compromise" that we are being asked to make, in order to keep our webOS UI.

developers... Make us a flash player, make us an android emulater (why the heck not), make us good parental controls. Make us stop compromising.

LOL on the "rejected" comment.

I do have to ask, is it that Adobe has snubbed Palm or Palm hasn't gotten things working yet? Adobe said they've released it to their mobile partners back in June. Did they release it to all "except" Palm?

That "rejected" comment is EXACTLY what I thought.

Not a snub. I also have a Droid 2 with Flash and I hardly use it. In fact I used it only one time since I downloaded it.

Like going to a bar when you turn 21, and finding out it's not such a big deal after all.

To put this into context, it's more like the geek who got repeatedly rejected (or "put off") by the hot cheerleader finally moved on, grew up, and found a real woman (named "html 5"), then watched the hot cheerleader get bloated after he gave up waiting for her to change her mind. In other words, the geek grew up and realized that she was all flash (pun intended) and no substance. :-) And that what he thought he wanted maybe wasn't worth having in the first place.

I mean, hey, as long as we're using tired metaphors, let's take it all the way to its conclusion.

Silly metaphors aside, it would be nice to see Flash on the Pre simply because it is used so much on the web. Wider adoption and implementation of HTML5 will reduce demand for Flash somewhat, especially as a container for video files, but it is still a very widely used container for games. It would be nice to know if it is Palm or Adobe who is and who has been responsible for the delays after the promises were made.

But in the end, Flash on a hand-held device is just not that important to me. Clearly, many people want Flash on their hand-held device, and that's fine. And I still think it would be nice to see. But it's not a make-or-break issue for me.

Can you have Flash fatigue? If so then I have it. I JUST DON'T CARE ANYMORE!!!!!

My Internet includes flash. You may not use it all the time but it's nice to have and we should want it.

HPalm is probably holding it back for the next big release. It's not right, but you do make a good point in that the pre's hardware just isn't up to snuff compared to modern android phones.

either adobe hates webOS because Ruby came from Apple, or this is proof that Steve Jobs was right in forbidding flash.

Adobe must be crazy...

Apple recently (September 10th) relaxed some of the restrictions on their app developers allowing for the use of Adobe's Flash. Jobs thought to have done this due to continued U.S. Antitrust Investigations.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870464440457548147121758134...?

Incorrect - Apple now allows apps compiled in C using Flash and other third-party app compilers. They still have not made any opening for Flash plug-ins in the browser or apps.

I still care, I bought my phone primarily because of the promise of flash. I may not even use it all that often to be honest but I want to still have it just the same. The device doesn't feel complete without it. Plus I'm damned tired of hearing about it from the Apple fanbois.

I personally believe that if you need an app for every damned web page you visit daily instead of natively (sp?)viewing it in the browser you did it wrong.

If Palm holds out to release Flash for the 2nd gen Pre I will abandon ship solely based on principle. It was shown as a selling point and we've seen it running on pre's that ARE NOT overclocked.

Hopefully you bought your webOS device for more than just the promise of Flash. There are other things to like (love) about webOS. If Flash is really your "only" concern, then you should get an Android device. I think you own the wrong device for "your" needs.

This is not a slam, just saying if you are only interested in a single feature, you should get the device that actually has that feature.

I'm merely mentioning that the promise of flash was a huge reason why I bought the device, it's not why i love my webOs phone.

Its not like you missed out on much. Android is just now getting Flash on a limited number of devices and it seems to be a mixed blessing for those that are using it frequently. My interst in flash is getting the WebOS Sling client completed. Running flash in a box like sling will keep out all the usual lice and fleas of Adobe Flash.

But he's right. If it means so much to you, forget the multitasking and advanced interface, go get a one trick wonder and satisfy your simple craving.

someone needs a hug....take a deep breath PDog....its going to be ok

Don't touch me suzie.

That statement is slightly foolish, and this IS a slam...

Palm promised a feature over, and over, and over, and over. They did not deliver. Palm did not tout this as a 'little' feature. They pumped it up as a legitimate reason for buying this phone. I too bought my Pre because of the promise of Flash and the subsequent videos proving it's existence (among other reasons like WebOS's fluidity and my general love of Palm)

So to tell someone that they shouldn't have bought this phone since it doesn't do what Palm promised it would do, and what other Android devices CAN do now, would be like saying you shouldn't have bought that car even though it's cheaper than the sports car but the dealer promises it can go just as fast if you just buy this 'add on' feature later on down the road. Then, when it still doesn't go as fast, wouldn't YOU feel ripped off by the dealer?

Please note that I put the word "only" in quotes. Read my post with that context in mind.

And to answer your question, I would have bought the car that goes at the speed that I needed, not the one that "promised" to do it at some point in the future (assuming speed was my "primary reason for buying the car").

I did. But what if the car with the speed you want, wasn't even out yet and had the same promises that Palm made... (sound familiar????)

What you don't seem to understand is that there are many reasons, features, and cool factors, that go into the decision to by a smartphone. For me, Palm's promise of Flash was the main feature that pushed me from ditching my Centro, which already had all the features of the Pre (at least for what I needed), except for flash.

Now it looks like it won't come out at all. That's false advertising in my book. I would not have bought the Pre had I known I'd be stuck with it for a year without the functions that it promised me.

As for my car analogy, apparently you must have all the money in the world to buy that faster car. I'd by the cheaper car with the promise of it going faster since that is all I can afford. My analogy is of having little money, and loving Palm so much that I'd forgive it's other shortcomings as long as it had Flash soon after I bought it.... which was promised.

Why defend a dirty salesman anyway? You have no stake in the outcome.

Again, my comment was about purchasing a webOS device with Flash being the ONLY REASON. The comment actually started out with a statement hoping there were other reasons to have purchased the webOS device.

You car analogy is not really a good one for this case because there would surely be documents (useable in court) that accompanied the sale. And no, it's not about having all the money in the world, it's about not viewing a "salesman's promise" as a "guarantee", especially when the thing being promised is the primary feature you expect from the item being purchased.

I agree in principle. Flash (or iTunes sync) is not why I got my Pre, but Palm should only promise what it WILL deliver. However, for me the Pros of webOS heavily outweigh the cons of their "over-promises". Plus, I'm just not that vindictive. A lot of things have changed since they made those statements.

strikerage, where did Palm even once promise Flash? Adobe made the promises that Pre/WebOS was one of the charter devices. You must be one of those that saw "itunes capable" on the box and in all the advertising too.

deleted

I want flash because some things require it and half the reason I love webOS is because of it's openness and my ability to put anything I want on here. Flash was promised. Also when the hell did precentral turn into such an apologizer.

That's Downer Derek for you. ;)

Does the Pre meet the latest mobile "minimum requirements"? Supposedly the Droid got nixed when the new standard came out a few weeks ago. I don't know the specific hardware specs of the Pre.

"VGA: Dedicated Cortex A8 550MHz App Processor with Neon for A8 only Hardware Vector FPU"

http://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer/systemreqs/#mobile

One of the things that initially excited me about flash was the possible portability between devices. One game that you can play with your friends on iphones and droids. I just recently started focusing on developing PDK apps and the reality of it is that all three major platforms are moving in the same direction with native apps (at varying speeds and results of course). I just think that before long, apart from some web content, Flash will be irrelevant on mobile devices. It's one of those things that probably would have had a chance if it were out right out the gate. But at this point other technologies are going to surpass it.

- Phil -

there is an opensource project that converts flash to htlm5 (http://www.html5trends.com/trends/another-way-to-convert-flash-to-html5/). shouldn't it be possible to embed this into pre browser?

the palm community - me included - has the capability to talk as long as necessary about palm related things until they sound quite good ... At least that's something we have learned over the years :-(

I would like to access google docs from my Pre without using the chopped down html version. I use the spredsheet program all the time. Flash would hold me over until the new Pre came out.

Now, with this apparent abandonment, and the news that Google will be coming out with dedicated Google Docs applications in the coming weeks to their own phones, I am far more interested in any Android phone that is capable of this. Android continues to impress me. All I need is 4G to hurry up and get activated in the capital of California and i'll be sure to ditch my Pre.

....Dont worry though, Palm. I'll pick you back up next year, as long as you fix ALL of your shortcomings with your next device. I love the fluidity of WebOS so you have until October 2011 to do this. Don't eff-up 2011 like you did the last to years.

Adobe are just a bunch of liars. I stopped believing and caring after "second half of 2010".

Apple's position is that since they don't like Flash, their users can't have it. This is Apple. They tell you what you want. In the Android world, Flash is available. If developers and end-users of the apps that use Flash want to put up with Flash's quirks, then they're free to do it. Just for me, I prefer to be treated like a grown-up.

Adobe are just a bunch of liars. I stopped believing and caring after "second half of 2010".

Flash sucks. HTML5 does not. End of story.

News bulletin for you: HTML5 sucks, too. We talk about HTML5 because it promises great things

Adobe lied... just this...


Best Regards...

The problem is that I can't stream certain Web music without Flash and I can't use my favorite weather site without Flash. Those two things alone degrade my Web experience on my webOS phone. The article reads a little like, well, we can't get Flash so we don't need Flash. But, there is a deeper concern for me. As a Palm Pre+ user on Verizon, I am getting nervous that my carrier is about to bail out on Palm and that developers, like Adobe, are bailing out on Palm. So, please tell me I am wrong.

Flash isn't all that. There are a handfull of websites that NEED it to function properly. Most of which wouldn't work correctly on the small screen of a phone...

Makes more sense on a tablet-like device. Hopefully, Flash comes to webOS before the tablet is released (whenever that is.).

Personally at this point...even long before this point I gave up on Flash and don't really care when it arrives (and it will...may not be till 2.0 or new hardware...but it will).

Although html5 may be the future it is nice to have access to ALL options even if Flash is a bridge to it's one day full time succesor. I had to mention one thing that I do hear when people criticize Flash and that is how slow it is...My less than tech savvy roommate has an EVO and I have found that Flash runs fine...maybe not blazing while it loads...but it's not "slow". In fact I remember a test that was on youtube with the EVO w/2.2 against the new Iphone iOS4...in this test the EVO was able to render pages with lots of Flash animation almost 3 times faster than the iOS4 could with those same pages while not displaying that same Flash animation.

I am not a Flash advocate per se...however a bridge to html5 being more widespread is nice to have as an available option. For example you wouldn't stop using gas to fuel your car just because people are working on alternatives...why?...because the alternatives are not there yet.

When Flash gets here it gets here...if it never gets here I will be fine with that as well being that I am not leaving Palm...

Mac users need to remember that Apple artificially restricts Flash to the CPU on Mac. On PCs, Flash is allowed to use the GPU for hardware acceleration. I haven't used a Mac recently enough to say that this is THE reason Mac users vilify Flash as a CPU Hog, but my Flash experience on PCs is not nearly as bad as Mac users report.

That being said, yes, browsers crash and, yes, Flash is often enough the cause, but, no, it is not an exercise in futility or anything even approaching it.

So, Mac users, please keep that in mind when you criticize Flash, and non-Mac users, understand where their criticism is coming from.

Adobe did release a Flash beta that has GPU acceleration on the Mac. There are only a few video cards supported now.

http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/04/28/adobe.flash.gala.does.hard...

I know, but 1) the GPU-accelerated Flash for Mac isn't out yet, and 2) the damage is already done. Flash performance would literally have to be perfect for Mac users to change their opinions about Flash.

For example, I still bear the scars of webOS's Too Many Cards error even though UberKernel has *all but* eliminated its occurrence. Even when it shows up when its supposed to -- like when I actually do have too many cards open -- all the anguish (yes, anguish, I was that traumatized) comes flooding back.

Funny how this website touted flash as one of the reasons WebOS would be the NUMBER ONE KING OF THE WORLD. Now that it's apparent it'll never happen, now they say "meh, never needed it, no big deal".

Way to cover your asses and your egos, fellas.

This article really makes me laugh. This argument that "well, we really don't want it anymore" rings so hollow that the echo is intense.

Back in 2009 everyone boasted how the Pre would be the first mobile platform to have Flash and everyone said how wonderful it would be to beat Android to the punch and people would be lining up to switch to webOS because we had this wonderful new technology that they couldn't get their hands on.

Now, here we are late 2010, and Palm has delivered the bits to Palm, Google, etc. and Google is the only one to take those bits and make use of them. Now you are changing your tune to "well we didn't really want it anyway" because you can't be first? What a joke.

To those of you who ask the Android folken "well, how much do you use it anyway?" It is not so much about "using" it, as it is about visiting a web page that has Flash content and it just works. Sure there are some who "use" is for going to game sites and pron sites, but most users, just like yourself with a browser on a PC, don't think about using it, they just enjoy the content as provided by the web page (instead of seeing a big box that does nothing).

Justify it all you want, in whatever way you want, but the fact is that Palm has dropped the ball for its users on this. That, along with the lack of new devices, and pitifully slow updates to webOS, is what is driving folks to Android. Sure webOS 2.0 holds promise, but it is just that at this point in time -- a promise. Just like the promise to get Flash, just like the promise to get new devices, etc.

+1

My house is bigger than your.

What? It's not?

Well who needs a big house anyway? I've seen some big houses; they require additional cleaning. How often do you use the extra space anyway? The way the economy is going, smaller houses are better in the long run.

*sigh*

+2

My car is faster than your.

What? It's not?

Well who needs a fast car anyway? I've seen some fast cars; they require too much gas. How often do you race anyway? The way the economy is going, slower cars are better in the long run.

*sigh*

+3


This article really makes me laugh. This argument that "well, we really don't want it anymore" rings so hollow that the echo is intense.



Back in 2009 everyone boasted how the Pre would be the first mobile platform to have Flash


You're glossing over the fact that there have always been a sizable number of people in the smartphone community (not just Pre) who don't care about Flash and never have. Yes, there are some who have changed their tune, and some of this is due to sour grapes. But for others it is because Flash is (slowly) becoming less relevant as HTML5 and other technologies mature.

Remember, not everyone falls in the same bucket. While a lot of Pre users have been waiting for Flash with bated breath, many others never cared one way or the other.

Very good point, I did not mean to be all inclusive in my characterization, my bad.

However, please re-read this sentence from the article: "We

Hmm, I took that to be "we == management of PreCentral" aka "we the writers" rather than "we == you the userbase of PreCentral." It's certainly inaccurate to say that the userbase of PreCentral as a group is changing its mind on this. The comments today make that plain! If that's in fact what the author intended, then the author is plain wrong.

The writers of this site have, until the middle of this year, falling into the camp of those who are excited about and waiting impatiently for Flash, to the point of sometimes hyping how awesome it will be. But the most fair thing to say about the community is that it has always been sharply divided on this. The smart phone community seems to have a significant minority of purists who disapprove of Flash and of any other proprietary web solution for that matter. I have half of one foot firmly in that camp. :-) But I'm mostly a pragmatist.

I couldn't decide from reading the article at the top if the mind change of the author was from sour grapes or from actually hearing or seeing Flash on Android, but both are possible. More than one thing has changed in the last year. One is that HTML5 is becoming relevant. Another is that Flash is now visible on a mobile platform. Remembering that more people will post to complain than to give praise, it's plausible that there's a lot of complaining about the performance of Flash on Android. I haven't looked because I don't really care that much.

@Colonel Kernel Good point...

There are still too many sites that require Flash just to use the site. Unfortunately, some of this sites are very important and not entertainment oriented.

No flash on webOS means that unless those sites completely change to HTML 5, then I must use another device. If I am going to get another device anyway...why not just replace the webOS device?

+1

There are about a dozen websites (mainly news websites) that I check routinely that I cannot get streaming audio or video without Flash. It is absolutely frustrating!

HECK YEAH WE NEED FLASH!!!! Don't go soft on us!

1. There's no way a WebOS tablet would sell without Flash, Android tablets would kill it.

2. HTML5 is out there, but it's not ready yet, there's too much content on flash and it's going to take time.

3. Palm needs all the apps it can get, especially web-apps because there's such a dearth of apps in the app catalog!

I don't like flash, but some sites I visit use it for video. I would like to see it on my Pre+ but not if it is going to be a CPU hog and drain my battery. It would be nice if Flash just disappeared from the earth, but marketing people just love to put those annoying ads on pages.

It's not a matter of how much it is used, but that it is there when it's needed or wanted. I have both an Evo and a Pre, and I am more likely to use my Evo to do web browsing, one of the reasons is the availability of Flash.

Just yesterday I was heading home, and I wanted to check the Happy Hours of a restaurant near me on the way home. Their site relies on Flash. With my Evo and Flash, I just pulled up the site and was able to do what I wanted to do. On a Pre I would've gone to the site, saw that I needed flash, then had to either see if I could find the info elsewhere (and hope I found the right info), or pull out a laptop, bring it up, get tethering going, and then check their site, and it would've taken me multiple times as long as just having Flash on my device.

...id probably just find the restaurant's number on google and call them....but more power to you on the whole tethering + laptop concept

It was promised at launch and never deliver, and we wonder why webOS it is not attractive to consumers.

---

Consumer: Does this Palm have flash 10.1?
Salesman: It was supposed to months ago, but they stopped developing for that phone because Palm went out of business. But, I have this awesome Android phone that has flash 10.1.
Consumer: Tell me more about that phone.

---

I am waiting impatiently for the next HPalm device....

Linux is the only operating system I've run (on metal, anyway) on my personal machine for the last three years. Some of said machines are 64-bit. Let's just say I've grown used to being let down my Adobe.

I don't really care if I have Flash on my Pre. The only times I've wanted it are playing some videos. Of course, even Adobe says that Flash is ill-suited for video playback. I'd much rather that web developers take that hint than Flash come to my phone.

Um, just last night I configured Flash on my 64-bit Fedora 13 installation on a laptop. It took me about ten minutes, including finding the web page to tell me how to do it (since Adobe dropped the 64 bit Linux beta of 10.1). I'm running the 32-bit Linux flash on a 64-bit browser.

I rarely care about flash, but it's nice to have for that small fraction of web sites I use that rely on it.

Just adding my name to the "I care" side. A TON of the web is flash (and not just videos!).

Whoa, since when did we stop wanting Flash and when did we start agreeing with the folks at Apple? Jobs doesn't really care what consumers want, he makes them want what he/Apple delivers. I love WebOS but I would be close to ecstasy with Flash on my phone.

Having said that, why would precental start writing articles questioning what many in this community wants. Maybe HPalm, the carriers, and precental are asking us to compromise a little too much. Peronally, if it continues, I may find myself becoming a little, mmm, what's the word, a little disenfranchised with WebOS. Therefore making it a little more easy for me to bail in December when HPalm fails to deliver on any smartphone news.

SMH, wow...

I love WebOS but I would be close to ecstasy with Flash on my phone.

ROFL. Epic pun!

Geez, all of you who are blaming Adobe need a reality check. Follow the link contained within the article (http://www.precentral.net/palm-has-final-version-flash-when-will-you). Adobe released Flash 10.1 to Palm in June, it is Palm who has done NOTHING with it...if you want to blame anyone, blame Palm!!

So it seems like we might be waiting a while for flash, so what do you do? Decide to agree with Apple of all people to make Palm look good.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Palm Pre, but saying it doesn't need flash purely because it's taking so long to be released is ridiculous. Sure it hogs battery life and resources. The fix for that? Don't use flash. Considering it's SOFTWARE, you're not forced to use it, if you don't like it. Personally I'm looking forward to getting flash on my Pre. If this site can't admit palm phones have some flaws and instead has to change its position on things just to look awesome, that's their problem =/

I feel like im keeping that dead cat that I choose not to get rid of. Perhaps ill stuff her? Its really starting to get to me.

My dad just got a palm pixi, I seriously held the phone and was like "wow this is cool". Honestly it was becuase it was somthing different with webos on it.

This is starting to get stale.

I'm a big fan of flash, it just makes desktops much easier to use in terms of function. Now i have no problem with my pre not having flash. As a matter of fact i really don't care about it. but after reading a few comments i really understand what others are saying

flash is great, and whilst our phones are not that powerful like desktops i question it's power drain on a mobile phone. all the same i can see flash enabling my pre to function better. It's a give or take situation but here is where i see the light.

We have flash on android and it works great. it's an on demand software and only launches when activated. Now that's great. While flash may have it's draw backs, it has great positives and im ready to give it a try on my pre.

I've used mobile flash on an Android phone.. It is cranky and buggy at times. Maybe the 4G people may not have a problem but in my use of flash sites in the past it's a resource hog on a laptop I can only imagine on a mobile platform.... Listen I've gone this long without it.. Don't miss it and it had no relevence to my purchase of the Pre... I bought my Pre for the multitasking abilities and it was the closest thing at the time like an iphone but wasn't an iphone. (idont care for the iphone much)

so when I was reading on the Palm Pre and they mentioned it would have flash.. I was like meh that's nice whatever.. If I want to view a flash site I own a laptop and a netbook so I'll use those. Why waste my battery life on my phone on flash?

HTML5 is catching on little by little and I have viewed some sites with it on my pre and I'll tell ya.. Not bad..

why bother, Adobes promises are like the ones we use to hear about Doc2Go.

deleted double post, sorry

and to the reply, lol you like that, huh??

the ability to delete a post/comment would be great

Hmmm I can't reach the grapes - I bet it is sour ;-)

http://www.eldoradostone.com/outdoor/tool

... and I could do the same thing with HTML5? No, sir.

Actually, you could do the same with HTML5 and JavaScript. Whether you "should" is a different question.

and on a 3 inch screen? Impressive.

Of course you could do the same thing with HTML5 + JavaScript, but Java (or C#) might be a better choice for something like that, depending on the size of the application. Personally, I cringe when I get stuck using those flash web sites. Flash for games is fine. Flash for video is on its way out. I have never been a fan of Flash for applications.

The reality is that a number of web sites *use* Flash like this, so anyone who hopes to sell any device for the web should implement Flash. Otherwise, they're telling their users, "Sorry, you cannot user our wonderful device on the whole web." But my personal preference is for web sites that provide that much functionality to use an actual application, an Applet or Java Web Start or .NET SmartClient, something like that. Other people differ, and prefer Flash, and folks making hardware have to support the web that exists, not the web that we may wish for.

@elyon

Actually.....yes sir. (See the following html5 demo)

http://alteredqualia.com/canvasmol/

Now that you can drag and arrange all elements on the page.

where is the ski mask wearing defender of the Webos Community? I'm sure he'd have something to say to Palm on this subject.

On this particular subject I would say we kick down the door to Palm n take FlashPlayer 10.1 as we were told we would have it coming over a year ago.

I don't feel like I am missing out on anything with my Pre. Android may have Flash but I don't need it on my Pre. There are a lot of mobile sites that I can access. I have compared my Sprint Pre to the Droid X and Droid 2. My Pre's browser was much faster. I do have my Pre overclocked and since overclocking my Pre I fell in love with it all over again. Now I am waiting for webOS 2.0. The hardware can wait for a few more months

Flash is like any luxury in life: it's nice to have but we can live without it. Chances are anything flashy enough to require Flash I'm gonna do on the computer anyway.

It does get to a point where I get so bitter about waiting that when it finally comes, I may boycott it anyway. I've done this with Digsby, who have been promising a Mac version for two years at least. I find it personally offensive when someone doesn't think the demographic I'm in is important enough to invest their time.

I don't care about Flash. My pre has a flash and that is all the flash I need. Everything else is just too much butter on my muffin'...I want a new phone with some outstanding features and I would not count flash from adobe into that. I would rather have a pdf reader that works well.

Wow. I think I don't care about Flash coming to webOS anymore. Actually, I know I don't. It boggles my mind how many companies screw webOS over and then try to cover their asses w/ lame excuses. I'm fed up with it. Yesterdays rumor article which covered something about Sprint rejecting the next webOS phone made my blood boil because Palm has been good to Sprint for years. The Pre sold well on the carrier but I guess it wasn't better than expected so Hesse and corporate are still butt-hurt about it? Geeshh. Palm has always been a great innovator n have always been close to the people - the ones spending $$ on their products. Nobody is perfect but they've done a tremendous job w/ the Pre, Pixi, and webOS. If Sprint cuts it's unlimited data plans - I'll probably raise a rukus. If Sprint denies ANY new webOS device - I'll switch to whoever will carry them. H/Palm will remain topnotch in this industry and companies like Adobe n DataViz, who put Palm on the backburner will feel the burn >=]

Except it may be Palm's fault this time since Adobe released flash to its partners some time ago. Also, I don't know the details of the "Sprint rejecting the next webOS phone" thing, but let's not get ahead of ourselves and think that Sprint owes Palm any favors. With the Pre, Palm allowed Sprint an exclusive period. During that time, they also crafted a deal with Verizon and allowed the Verizon rep (CEO?) to claim they were getting the Pre long before the exclusivity deal with Sprint was over. When it was all said and done, Palm sent a "better" device to Verizon and AT&T.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting Palm did anything wrong here, I just don't think Sprint owes Palm anything.

OK, but if you go to m.adobe.com what do you see?

You see that Flash Player is comming soon.

This has been like this for a month.It looks like it is a change in the page, not that they are not going to develop it.


:)

Most apps will slow down your phone too. Or at least it does for me. Regularly reboot the phone to get rid of the "too many cards" error.
Guess I don't agree. I would like Flash supported on my phone and my experience w/flash on pc has been great. I've had some issues on ubuntu with flash but windows has ran it fine.
Biggest issue with Adobe lately is security. Seems to keep making the headlines on this front. I've had no complaints with performance (other then on linux)

If you want a sign of what Flash on webOS could be like, try "haXe Demo" or "MineHX" from the App Catalog. Both of these utilize haXe which cross-compiles between Flash and webOS. It's a C runtime, but the code is 99% Flash Actionscript.

I think that the future of Flash looks bright, at least for apps or supporting more video formats.

I completely forgot we were waiting for Flash. It's been so long since I last heard about its imminent arrival.

Meh, I mostly wanted it in the hopes it would let me listen to XM online via my phone but ever since I let my XM sub lapse I don't really care about Flash anymore. I've got my Slacker and Pandora apps. I'm satisfied.

waiting for flash is the most popular thing on the palm community I want an htc evo with palm webOs that will be awesome

flash lite is awesome I use it on the evo and is great

some benchmarks are showing flash to be faster (sometimes significantly) and providing better battery life than HTML5.

http://www.dailytech.com/UPDATED+Benchmark+iPhone+4+HTML5+Performance+is...

I am beginning to feel like Milton from office space. I just keep getting my desk moved, my pay cancelled, and now they even took my swingline stapler... But I just keep mumbling under my breath and keep coming in everyday.

one of these days I'm gonna come in an torch the place.

hp is bill lumburgh! Yea just need you to keep moving your desk to the storage room... That'd be great.

ok maybe that's all a bit juvenile. But it's getting real hard not to feel like it's the end for me.

. :[

@Derek Really, not even a link-back??!
http://forums.precentral.net/general-webos-chat/231688-will-you-install-...

I'm not usually a fortune teller, but I really did call this 8 Months ago :)

For all of you that correlate HTML5 to Steve Jobs, how sadly misinformed you are.

Jobs != W3C html working group
Jobs != WHATWG
Jobs != Google

http://www.w3.org/html/wg/
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/
http://www.html5rocks.com/

Google has invested much effort into HTML5 development, Jobs simply chose to stand patiently for a better product. So, saying HTML5 is a 'Jobs' thing is completely stupid on your part.

Know what you're talking about before you make yourself look foolish.

Palm just take the support for flash out of the browser and webOS and give the editors something to write about and us to whine about.

I think Palm's never done better. The flood of PDK apps has kinda destroyed the app drought I complained about a few months before. I have what I need with Palm.

I want Flash, but I'm not too pissed off. I'll just go play Angry Birds. That said, I think that Flash will never arrive for the Pre (+). The reason for so many delays must've been that they couldn't optimize the app enough for the Pre's hw.

Too bad for adobe. Bad for me too. But we'll be getting an even bigger flood of apps with webOS 2 and the hybrid SDK+PDK. It can only get better, not worse. Let's take Flash as an added bonus.

ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND! WE NEED FLASH! YOU BUNCH OF IDEOTS!

STILL MORE BAD NEWS ON THIS SITE MAYBE I SHOULD STOP LOGING IN

It would certainly help if you could disable your caps-lock key. :-)

Think about things people, Palm is coming out with new devices. Now if you were working on new phones and the Palm Pad, would you spend a lot of time on old phones? (that palm and HP are basically throwing out for free)So honestly, think... Palm is spending all their time to make their new devices better! and making sure that they don't have to say "flash will be on WebOs 2.0 by the end of next year, because we spent all our effort on upgrading customers phones and phones we wont make any money off of" Especially since when WebOs 2.0, the Pre 2, and what ever else they are coming out with, NO ONE IS GOING TO BUY THE OLD ONES! EVERYONE WANTS NEW!!!! Also, if you were about to come out with a new product, what would you do? GET RID OF THE OLD PRODUCT! Palm is getting rid of all the stuff they still have in stock, because they know that if they were to release anything now, they wont be able to empty what is in stock now. I honestly think Palm didn't even have any plans to do any updates to what is out now, they just kept putting it off so we would give them space. so be patient, we cant do anything that will make it happen faster, the day comes when it comes. But I'm betting the newer stuff will have flash and everything else we have wanted, before they will doing anything for what we have now. Sorry for the long post, I kind of ramble on a lot! :)

Except they already hyped up the Flash capability of the Pre. Phones already have Flash on them, and Flash has already been demonstrated as being functional on the Pre. "Oh, hey, remember that feature we promised you on that phone we sold you last time? Well, it's finally here! But it's on a new phone and you have to give us more money before you can use it."
Yeah...

Yesterday I played with Droid 2 that already preloaded with Froyo which already can play flash.

I tried open some websites that contain flash. And the result really not good in performance. Scrolling the website that contain flash really slow. Even using 1 GHz CPU, Droid 2 still somewhat like lack of power to run the flash.

Seeing this happen on Droid 2, I just think again.. maybe what Steve Job said about Flash was right. Flash maybe not suited for mobile devices. It only suited for PC/Laptop that have more power.

And back to think about WebOS.. if people still love Flash run on WebOS, I hope Palm/HP really test it before release it. Or maybe the best think is make an option on the browser to tun on/off the flash when we need it.

damn. So Adobe had completely let us down. Again. If it weren't for the flash based content on some sites that facebook friends link to, I would tell Adobe to stick flash where the sun doesn't shine. On Droid.

I didn't buy the PRE for the flash promise, and I'm not going to get rid of it just for Flash. This is the best phone I have ever owned!

If they just owned up and said that Flash would never be, then at least they could have left it with some dignity.

What good is HTML5 today, if every second link from my twitter account leads me to a FLASH page... HTML5 is worthless as long as most pages use FLASH. Coz those pages won't work with HTML5 just because we webos users want them to.

gief flash... :(

This just means PAAAALLLLMMMM

get that Browser capable of all the new HTML5 goodies there are:
- all videostandards
- geolocation
...

neato! that one on your phone http://html5test.com/

the Competition scores that:
http://2.gp/br7e