HP board also reconsidering Personal Systems Group spin-off plans, skinny ties 68
Wed, 21 Sep 2011 4:07 pm EDT 
News leaked out this morning that HP’s Board of Directors was reconsidering their decision to have Leo Apotheker serve as the CEO of their company. Going oh so logically hand-in-hand with that thought is reconsidering the decisions that CEO has made, and Bloomberg is hearing that the HP board is doing just that.
Specifically, the board is said to be debating whether or not to follow through on Apotheker’s plans to lobotomize HP’s hardware division (minus printers) – the Personal Systems Group – off into a new company. Almost every time Apotheker has opened his mouth with a grand new plan for HP, the company’s stock value has suffered, and when the plan was announced to spin-off or sell the PSG, HPQ share price plummeted in a manner that only former Palm shareholders were familiar with. Today’s rumor-news brought quite the opposite reaction from the markets, with HP jumping as high as 10% before closing the day up over 6%. It doesn’t quite make up for all the damage Apotheker has wrought on HP and its valuation during his brief tenure, but it’s a start.
Of course, there’s still the question we’re pondering: will HP also restart webOS hardware development? The logic behind purchase Palm was that webOS would give HP a leg up in a decidedly mobile-oriented consumer future, and the logic behind the PSG spin-off was that the consumer PC market was due to stagnate with ever narrowing margins, while HP could reap enormous profits from enterprise services. PSG’s profits aren’t gone (yet), and Apple has proven that there’s a market for premium high-margin personal computers, and even more so for mobile devices. HP and the webOS Global Business unit can’t survive on $99 TouchPads, but the best path for relevancy and profit could very well be a dual-pronged mobile and enterprise approach (with enterprise services backing up the mobile hardware and hardware devices enabling further sales of the enterprise services).
Source: Bloomberg
68 Comments
I wouldn't trust HP with webOS now regardless of who is at the head. Especially after the loss of talent since the announcement of webOS's execution until the recent pink slips. Convince HTC they want webOS.
I disagree if it comes to HTC. It's not a matter of trust, it's a matter of who has the infrastructure to make it work.
Granted, HP didn't exactly do an awesome job of HARDWARE investment, but they have acquired a whole lot of nice web services and server side development that HTC just doesn't have. HTC makes good phones. They don't make OS's, and they certainly don't supply a very vast infrastructure of services that would be applicable to mobile applications. What does that mean? It means that if you don't think HP is offering up enough with each webOS device right now, HTC will be stuck offering up even less unless they can strike a deal to keep using some of those HP services.
I write web services for big corporations for a living, you can't just knock these things out overnight. It takes YEARS to make services that can handle a wide range of countries/currencies and devices. There's a whole lot of fiddly work that goes into it and way more testing than you can imagine. That's why it would probably take HTC well over 2 years to get webOS devices fully baked and out to the market again.
Now the company that could have done it (back when they were doing hardware and software) would have been IBM. They would have been ideal. They made solid, popular enterprise hardware, and they provided a tremendous array of services. If IBM hadn't spun off their hardware to Lenovo and had acquired Palm, you might actually see webOS devices fully taking over RIM's market and making a huge dent in Apple and Google's as well. But that obviously didn't and couldn't happen...and frankly, the next best thing is probably HP as they most closely mimic that model. They just need to have a CEO with some real vision (like Mark Hurd had, for example).
Well I mentioned HTC only because they're the only company to publicly admit contemplating buying a mobile OS. My main point is that HP is no longer a good home for webOS. They laid off many of the Palm people recently as we all know, and I'm sure many of HP's own talents left the company when the new company direction was announced. HP is not in a position to attract talent back into working under them, therefore it isn't too wild a guess that they lack the people (or the amount of people) with the smarts to make webOS rise again.
Well, Mark Hurd has made it clear that he purchased Palm for the patents so that was the strategic motivation for the move. I believe the thinking was they could then throw a SMALL amount of money into webOS and turn it into a money maker similar to the printer division. Silly idea I know, but Hurd was not much better than Apotheker. He kept Wall Street happy but he killed innovation inside of HP. HP enterprise business is primarily the platform plus services to manage those platforms. They were clearly moving into the cloud area utilizing their server technology and their services in managing them. Yes, PCs are becoming a commodity with small profit margins but they are the basis for doing with services with platform customers. I think Hurd was also thinking that webOS would have a major role as their mobile offering to access the cloud. HP is NOT a software company! You have now seen what that means with the past year of webOS under their wing. Wall Street and their customer base is also making clear what is valued inside of HP: hardware infrastructure. Customers value solutions, not hardware, software, or services!
"Silly idea I know, but Hurd was not much better than Apotheker. He kept Wall Street happy but he killed innovation inside of HP."
Well, Carly Fiorina was none the better. It's a very common process and it happens every time when are too much business management people or lawyers are allowed to make too many decisions. The point is, that they do not have to fear any consequences. If they get booted, they get compensated and walk right over the street into the next company.
I'm not a big Apple fan and Steve Jobs might be an unlikable guy to an extend, but he believed in what he did and he was able to push it against all odds. Remember the IT Press laughing, when OS-X 10 hit the stores? He was the guy with the balls and the brain.
And that is what nearly every each of those overpaid, overrated jerks don't have.
In the 1990's when Apple wasn't at its best, they lost a LOT of key people for Macintosh and other hardware development, big names like Ellen Hancock, Guy Kawasaki and Jean-Louis Gassée.
However, despite these losses, Apple still managed to turn themselves around, due to the big names that came on board and/or gained their current positions after 1997, such as Tim Cook, Jon Rubenstein (who came in with Jobs) and Johnathan Ives. This is also in spite of the fact that most of the original Mac developers, such as Jef Raskin and Bill Atkinson, had left.
Big names come and go... it IS a shame to see specific talented people of webOS's history jump ship when Palm was acquired by HP, as well as to see others leave in recent times, but new names are always coming in to pick up where the leaving names left off, maybe even doing a better job than the names that left. Apple's success over the past ten years or so is a perfect example of this.
Just food for thought....
This whole webOS/HP/CEO drama would make an interesting movie.
I just said to my son that this is like a soap opera.
Movie title..."Charlie Foxtrot"
Or maybe "Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo"
What a mess HP has been for the last 10 months since Leo has run the ship. Not that they haven't had other problems previously, but this ride has been bad for consumers, investors, employees, etc. Hopefully, they can right the ship, but it won't happen over night.
The only thing that has brought everyone together is the rumor that Leo will be gone. HPQ stock is up about 7% at the close on the news and was as high as 10% earlier today.
I can't see WEBOS hardware coming back no matter how bad we want it. HP killed it but good.
What carrier will invest in HP/PALM now? Will Best Buy welcome back the next iteration of the Touchpad? Can't see it happening. Webos hardware, at least manufactured for or by HP, is a cold dead corpse.
Of course, this analogy lends itself well to Frankenpre's!
Not saying this is likely to happen, but for argument's sake:
If HP brought back the TouchPad at or close to firesale prices, BestBuy and other retailers would be stupid not to stock them of shelves. How many times do you get a product that creates lines out the door. Yes, some of that was due to the limited supply, but then again, some people said not to buy it because it was in limited supply with no future. If you are BestBuy, you get foot traffic in your stores, and those people who come in for a TouchPad may buy other things as well.
HP did burn bridges, and it makes it hard for retailers to trust them with all the flip-flopping ("double-down on webOS" then killing webOS hardware, and potentially back again?). But there could be a strong business reason to carry them. And remember that not every company lacks the business sense of HP.
But even HP can't sell a $300 tablet for $100-150 and stay in business. at market pricing, they don't have a chance!
They can't do it permanently, but they can do it for awhile to build market share. They lost some 12 billion dollars in stock value in a day when they made the announcement.
That puts the device in millions and millions of people's hands even at the price of free.
Again, that's a retarded strategy. HP needs to regroup certainly because their credibility is shot. Some house cleaning is in order.
But to go back to the Touchpad and this webOS nonsense would be suicide.
Instead, go with who you are. HP needs to reaffirm its partnership with Microsoft. Samsung is up there on stage with a windows 8 tablet. No excuse HP. That should have been you.
Every carrier would want to carry webOS devices, once two things happen:
1) Price is reasonable (NOT priced at iPhone/iPad levels)
2) The device rocks. No, not some flimsy slider with sub-par performance. It has to be fast, smooth and have lots of apps!
Palm and HP missed the mark on *every* release. It was always *just* good enough. It was never compelling over the major players. Either processor was too slow, the OS was too slow, there was lag, there was broken/flimsy hardware, etc.
HP could revive this if they made a rock solid phone (a slab!) that would be manufactured precisely with an OS that doesn't have any of the problems it had in the past (fix many bugs, missing components, add apps, etc). They cannot miss the mark, but yet every release prior, they have.
If they really want to hit a home-run, they should hire 10 people to just scour this site alone (all the forums) about every problem that exists and find every issue where people have complained. Then take a year off (or some reasonable amount of time) to fix all of the problems. Keep issuing updates in the meantime so users can see progress and test the released code for further bugs. Once it's all hashed out, release the big device with all the bells and whistles.
I can't agree with your argument. Take Sprint as an example. The Pre3 looked pretty good, but they had had enough of Palm and HP and they weren't changing their mind. And they already had a base of customers on the OS and were walking away.
I think where we see different is that you felt the pre3 was "pretty good", but in fact this was the problem. The public thought it was "pretty good" but *not* awesome!
The fact is, the pre3 isn't all that. HP didn't bring anything new to the pre3 that seemed so compelling to drop the iphone and go with it. Sure, it had a slightly larger display, but all the demonstrations (videos from shows) kept showing the device *lagging* again. This is the problem time and again with webOS that phone companies I'm sure saw and didn't want to introduce to their customers yet again. There were many other reasons why the Pre3 just didn't cut it, of which I'm not going to delve into at this time. However, going back to my point, the device has to be an awesome device, not just "pretty good".
Problem with your theory is that the same people (e.g. Rubinstein, Bradley, McArthur) would be running the show and they would inevitably do the same thing leading to the same result.
Just as HP repeated all of Palm's mistakes in design and execution.
No incredible slab ever made it to production, and the 7-inch Touchpad was just as plasticky as its big brother.
It's not going to happen. The carriers moved on long ago. Now, the retailers are doing the same.
I like my plasticky TP and would love to buy a 7" too.
Who says HP killed webOS hardware "for good"?
Let's take a look at Apple's playbook. In the mid 90's, Apple released the first device which one could consider to be the first Personal Digital Assistant, the Apple Newton. It was a revolutionary idea, but, sadly, Steve Jobs killed it in 1997 after Apple decided to spin the Newton off into a separate company only to absorb it back shortly thereafter.
So when the Newton was killed off, did that mean that Apple and mobile devices were killed off "for good"?? Hardly. Fast forward ten years after the death of the Newton when Apple released a simple little device called the iPhone, which is essentially Newton's grandchild. Another three years later Apple released the iPad, another of Newton's grandchildren.
So, was the Newton ever "killed for good"? Hardly. Few things are absolute, and so there's nothing saying that something is ABSOLUTELY AND COMPLETELY DEAD. WebOS hardware made by HP could come back... maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but someday. **** maybe it'll come next week when HP fires Leo and reverses just about all of his lame decisions!
In any case, however, I think it's foolish to count webOS software and hardware out for the count just because things don't look rosy RIGHT NOW. Fortunately consumers have short memories and Apple capitalized on it--how many iPhone owners really care that Apple axed the Newton in 1997 and/or still held a grudge against them? Nothing says HP couldn't do the same... and this isn't wishful thinking either.
Wow, I love your optimism and wish your are right, but I think you are tainted by the love for the platform, or the potential that the platform had/has.
HP is not going to get back into making phones or tablets, IMO.
Pure pipe dream. It's not a matter of things "not looking rosy". HP gave up, then did so in the worst possible fashion which permanently burned bridges with retailers and carriers.
Apple didn't capitalize on short memories regarding the Newton. They made them irrelevant by delivering a way more complete and polished product featuring a DIFFERENT OS with a DIFFERENT FOCUS.
They only do what the little spreadsheets in their heads tell them to.
The CEO of a corporation doesn't announce major changes to the structure of said corporation without backing from the board. This makes the board almost equally complicit in the falling stock values. Their next step should be to hire an outside firm to evaluate the fitness of each and every board member and make recommendations on the hiring of a new board of directors.
HP needs to focus on innovating consumer products as companies start to move more and more to BYO. BYO will be the gateway for selling enterprise components that are inter-operable with the consumer products. Companies are looking to squeeze profits where ever they can and BYO is the next logical step. HP has a slim window of opportunity to get into this market, otherwise I feel that they're just going to continue diminishing in share until they are finally parted and sold off.
However, Leo was known for making public comments without the board or VP's knowledge while at CEO, which is one reason he lasted about 7 months as their CEO.
I think he wanted to fast track the spin-off or selling of PSG and the killing of WebOS. What better way then to mention it to the public without Dewitt, Bradely, etc. even knowing the plan.
Guy is a real snake and can't be trusted at all.
Hope he is really gone. I can't see HP taking this back now, else the stock will drop even more than it has.
I think he went public, obviously without much thought or preparation, just to prevent any arguments or second thoughts. He3 burned the bridge and there was no going back.
"Their next step should be to hire an outside firm to evaluate the fitness of each and every board member and make recommendations on the hiring of a new board of directors."
BRING IN THE BOBS!!!
M.
I agree, the board seems to be trying to save face and boost shareholder value by reversing their agreed upon course and making Leo the scapegoat.
The board has completely humiliated themselves and the HP brand, and clearly has no idea what to do at this point to save their sinking ship.
Without this community and the people along the way I would have dumped webOS a long time ago...it's a pitty how this system has been treated.
People need to stop to treat as an unwanted stepchild and give it the utmost respect.
Then success will come...
Leo was C.E.O. ...My guess is that they are only looking for the person to follow him on that position. Otherwise the news wouldn't be out.
BRING WEBOS BACK!!! IT IS THE MONUMENT THAT WE CAN ALL BUILD ON AND ME AS A DEVELOPER IN TRAINING WOULD LOVE TO SHOW A FEW OTHER DEVELOPERS WHAT'S IN STORE FOR THE FUTURE IF THEY RELEASE MORE PRE'S...PRE 3'S THAT IS....just do it...bring it back...or we will do it by ourselves.
I suggest HP sell off their stock of AT&T and Verizon Pre3 phones while they think about it. You know, just to get a feel for the level of interest.
In my mind I picture HP's Board as monkeys throwing poo at leo (he does not deserve to be capitalized).
Time maybe for someone to resurrect the "palm" name because that name can never be as bad as the name "hp" and not for anything webOS by palm has showed it will never die while all the **** ups are happening at hp all these other phones/tablets, apple and android included, are stealing bits and pieces it. Has anybody made a list of palmOS/webOS features being used by the top selling phones or tablets.
Biggie Small made a song called "Gimme The Loot", well "Give Him The Boot."
The best thing that can happen to HP and WebOS is to put Todd Bradley as CEO. If that succeeds I've no doubt about the success of WebOS in the future!
Picked up my Pre3 today. Coming from a Pre it's built so well, sits better in the hand and just got a quality feel to it. Keyboard is back to Treo size. Dropping webOS when the Pre3 is a excellent device is just...crazy.
Worse thing to happen is for HP to retain WebOS/Pre's/Touchpad.
They've soured their relationship with suppliers/Big Box Stores/ End Users. They've lost all credibility and it will take years to recover.
Sell the whole darn thing to somebody that cares!
HP should fire Apotheker, resurrect Palm as both a team and a brand with Ruby back in charge, and then give Palm the financial backing and creative room to do what they do best.
Sorry, but the business case for webOS hardware is no better than it was a year ago. In fact, it's far worse.
Imagine if the Pre 3 were being launched this month as previously planned - [yawn]. Now picture new tablet hardware being announced at CES 2012 [yawn]. Android has a new tablet OS launching this month and the iPad 3 is pretty much being held up by Apple until Spring simply due to lack of competition. HP has mobile hardware comparable to iPad 1 while Apple has iPad 3 waiting in the wings.
It's not as if the webOS hardware team has been hard at work while all this sh*t has been going on. They have been updating their resumes and getting ready to be shut down. I mean, how many times can you reboot a platform before you can safely let it rest in peace?
How many times can you reboot a platform before you can safely let it rest in peace? Let's ask Apple.
In 1997 when Apple was on their last leg, Jobs tried his best to turn the company around. Their flagship operating system, System 7.5, was falling behind Windows and Apple DESPERATELY needed to get it in gear. So Apple released:
* MacOS 7.6
* MacOS 8
* MacOS 8.5
* MacOS 9
* Rhapsody (aka MacOS X Server 1.0)
* MacOS X 10.0
* MacOS X 10.2 "Jaguar"
* MacOS X 10.3 "Panther"
* MacOS X 10.4 "Tiger"
* MacOS X 10.5 "Leopard"
* MacOS X 10.7 "Lion"
Each version of Mac OS listed above was Apple's way to "reboot" the MacOS to the public; if the public wasn't convinced that the Mac was awesome and useful and certain NOT "dead", then the next version will!
WebOS has a lot of life in it, and it'll be "rebooted" as often as it needs to to show consumers that it's "under new management". Few consumers will hold onto the notion that ANY operating system software is absolutely dead; the only ones who do are the ones who simply disliked the system itself (like the people who hates Macs back in the day and still hate it today despite all the changes and "reboots").
Reading up on Apple's history and the ups-and-downs they faced back when Apple was suffering at the worst point in their history is enough to show that ANY company can rebound, no matter how many cards are stacked against them. Maybe 2011 won't be remembered as the webOS's strong year, just like 1996-1997 is Apple's annus horribilis. But, assuming HP doesn't kill off webOS completely, there's always next year, or the year after that, or--in the case of Apple--any of the next ten to fourteen years. It doesn't matter to me, just as long as HP continues to crank out webOS upgrades and even hardware AND that it finally gets big in the end.
At some point, you will realize that Apple is NOT the norm. Thinking webOS will bounce back simply because Apple managed to do it is like thinking HP will become #1+ simply because Apple managed to do it.
There is also a huge difference between a software upgrade and a platform reboot.
Is anyone starting to wonder if they're just waking up from a bad dream? it's been just over a month since webOS' Black Thursday, and in another month HP could have a new CEO, a new direction, and webOS might be back from the grave. Just like it was all a bad dream. HP's stock price might even recover.
btw, if HP does decide to resurrect webOS, I think the current TouchPad model has to be done with. They can't keep making them and selling them at firesale prices, but they can't raise the price either. They'd have to move forward with new models - initially the TouchPad Go, which is already ready to go (lol, pun!), and later with a TouchPad 2. They can still launch the Pre3 in the US though, if they get serious with AT&T and Verizon.
I too consider this to be one heck of a bad dream... but one of those Hollywood bad dreams where, after waking up, a physical piece of evidence is on my pillow "proving" that the dream was more than "just a dream".
And that piece of evidence was my $150 32gb Touchpad. :P
Still, I just hope that HP stands back up, dusts themselves off and get right back on the horse... including releasing the Pre3 to AT&T and Verizon.
I also agree that the Touchpad 1 should remain a Firesale device and that, should HP resume hardware production, they should work on a Touchpad 2 to draw attention away from the Touchpad 1 and show consumers that they mean it when they reversed their decision to end webOS hardware production.
There's one way that I can see HP bringing back webOS on their own devices. They can't bring webOS back on HP devices because that's already been widely publicized as being closed down. What I think they could get away with is bringing Palm back and "licensing" webOS to Palm. That way they could have somewhat of a clean start(again). I think the chances of this are pretty slim though since they're laying off all of the hardware employees.
Widely publicized? Sure. But will consumers care? Doubtful. I mean, who says HP "CAN'T" ever bring back webOS hardware? If they do, do you think consumers will care, especially if it's sold at the right price?
Apart from the fact that consumers have extremely short memories, not ALL consumers would be all "HP said they stopped making hardware, but now they have this new HP Touchpad 2 tablet for $299. I'm not gonna buy it, even if it's a good price, just because they lied about ending webOS hardware production!" I mean, it's not like these widly publicized announcements will convince 100% of consumers to NOT buy any HP webOS product should HP reverse their decisions; I know *I* will buy a Pre3 or a Pre4 in the case that HP reverses all of Leo's decisions concerning webOS (such as ending hardware production).
I think people will be very pleasantly happy if HP starts webOS and tablets up again. And some people who didn't want a dead end device no matter the price will look at it again. People don't know what the touchpad is about other than it is cheap, hard to find, and HP pulled the plug. One of my colleagues asked today what OS runs on. HP still has a good name- a bad (very bad) year doesn't destroy it all.
The touchpad does have a somewhat positive name right now. Hp if they can get their heads on straight and commit to a direction, there is some hope for a touchpad 2. webOS phones can sell in modest amounts. HP shouldn't push too hard in all the brick and mortar phone stores yet. Go online and see how those sell and the major companies won't want to risk another Palm failure and unsold inventory.
I can't think of a real buyer for webOS who wants the risk of continuing a niche and struggling platform. Better for HP to publicly recommit, try to make good devices, price them well and grow webOS organically with some patience!
Anyone claiming webOS is dead is simply being overdramatic. I'm not trying to be a blind supporter who pretends that something is what I want it to be. However, I lived through and thus CLEARLY remember the days when everyone considered Apple to be dead back in 1997, but they sure did prove otherwise, didn't they?
To put it in perspective, take a look at what someone said back in 1997 concerning Apple dying, and compare it to anyone today saying that webOS is dying/dead and that's it.
"At a certain critical point - perhaps five years ago - Apple stopped investing time, effort, brainpower, and money in continuing to make a better product. Instead, it dissipated its energy on everything but the Macintosh - on Newton, Sweet Pea, Kaleida, Taligent. Meanwhile, the rest of the world caught up. The last great engineering task accomplished on the Mac was the switch to PowerPC. However, no new features went in. The company that had been the leader in operating systems found that it could no longer write an operating system - Copland was a disaster that never shipped. It had to suffer the ultimate ignominy of buying one outside. The NeXT purchase is too little too late. The Apple of the past was an innovative company that used software and hardware technology together to redefine the way people experienced computing. That Apple is already dead. Very adroit moves might be able to save the brand name. A company with the letters A-P-P-L-E in its name might survive, but it won't be the Apple of yore."
-- Nathan Myhrvold, chief technology officer at Microsoft
Sound familiar? It should: it sounds like everyone who is counting webOS as good and dead AND that there's no way to bring it back. Sure, HP doesn't have a Steve Jobs to ressurect webOS the way the real Jobs did for Apple, but we at least have Jon Rubenstein who WORKED for Jobs and at least knows what needs to be done... but then again, you don't need a to be a Steve Jobs to realize that webOS simply needs time and the right price to fly off the shelves.
The thing is, I've lived through Apple's low point and was completely confident that it'll survive AND thrive long after 1997, simply because Apple had a superior product over their competitors that the people want (even if they didn't know they did), combined with the willpower and desire to do everything it needed to do get it into the hands of people. Eventunally, I was proven completely right!
As such, I'm completely positive that webOS WILL survive and thrive, simply because, just like Apple, the webOS is a superior product over its competitors that the people want (even if they didn't know they did)... it just needs someone with the willpower and desire to do everything necessary to get it into the hands of people. If webOS truly does die, it's because of someone like Leo Apotheker who outright kills webOS, and not because of consumers giving up on it. Again, Macs are still alive and thriving despite reaching a point where critics proclaimed that consumers have given up on it.
All this news shows me that at least SOMEONE in HP sees the potential in webOS (even if Leo doesn't) and is thus willing to do what it necessary to make it happen. As such, we should give those people all the support we can to get HP to crank out webOS hardware once more! And again, it's never too late to re-release hardware; fortunately consumers have short memories and are willing to buy products regardless of their checkered past (simply because they FORGET about said checkered past to begin with!).
SO BASICALLY: It ain't over until it's over. It may take ten to fourteen years for webOS to become number one--which is how long it took Apple to do the same--but I'm patient for its success like I was patient for Apple's success. I just hope everyone else is patient for long term potentials as well....
I like this.
YOU CAN'T KILL WEBOS!!!
It was BOD mistake to hire LEO almost a year ago. You cannot hire someone with no electronics background and no vision, no patience to lead the complicated HW company like HP.
HP should re-design their WebOS devices to make it more affordable to people world wide and then wait for a few more years to see that results, instead of throw everyone under the bus after crunched the numbers due to disapponting sales. Well, the TP did sell well from the beginning? it has been proved that if they got the right price from the beginning for the right product then they can sell them fast... no matter what!
I remember >10 yrs ago when MS was dominated the whole PC industry, and not many people could think that Apple will survive, but look at the situation now and you'll see my point.
Look at it this way. A lot of people bought the Touchpad, not because they knew what it was, but because they knew it was a great deal on whatever. They didnt even know what they were buying. I talked to quite a few people in one of the lines I was in. Now that they have it, they are excited about having it.
Those friends who bought one may not pay Apple prices but they may pay our prices which would be better prices. Lagging or whatever problems people say they dont like about it, they are still buying products for it. Lots of people are using them for more than they originally said they would.
More than just a reader, or an internet browser, bookstand, paper weight, frisbee, coaster or any of the other uses people have spouted out. No, I dont see as many as I see of the IPad, but the ones who have it are excited. I see more TP's in use than the other tablets out there.
It may be wishful thinking, but there is nothing wrong with wishful thinking with this new info. Before when there was not much hope at all, maybe we could be ragged on a bit. Maybe the new setup at HP can bring us a Pre3.
DIE MONSTER DIE!
The problem with the Apple comparisons is that what revived Apple was not any iteration of the Mac or the Mac OS, it was the iPod. Macs have only recently begun to claim share from Windows PCs, and that's because as overall pricing has come down, and Apple's purchasing power has increased (due to iPod/iPhone/iPad), the differential between a Mac and a PC has come down from the thousands to the low hundreds.
On the other hand, HP is used to competing in low margin businesses, so they don't need the product itself to be perceived as superior to get their desired margins. They just need a competitive product at a competitive price.
Not necessairly; the iPod helped pull Apple from the brink, but it would be four years after Steve Jobs took over before it was released. Apple STILL had to get themselves back on their feet and turn a profit in 1997, and they did it with the Mac, via the Power Mac G3 and the iMac in 1998. Furthermore, MacOS 7.6 helped fix just about all the bugs found in MacOS 7.5, turning it into something USEABLE while MacOS 8 and MacOS 8.5 (combined with the PowerMac G3 and the iMac) turned the Mac into something DESIREABLE again. This all happened before the iPod's release in October 2001, and even then a truly Windows-compatible iPod wasn't released for another year or so afterwards.
The thing is, market share is not necessairly something Apple focused on initially, and certainly isn't what HP should worry about with the webOS at this point. Apple's focus in 1997 and 1998 was to simply turn a profit, NOT to become the number one computer on the market. And, with the Mac, that's what they managed to do.
As such, for HP and the webOS, they need to focus on simply staying afloat. It may not be in any position to capture the lead from Apple or Google, but that doesn't matter; HP should just focus on making a product that sells, PERIOD. That is, if they put in $X and make Y units, they should be able to sell all Y units and make $X-$Z in return. It doesn't matter if Y is in the low thousands and X and Z are a couple million; if they can get more out of what they put in, that should be good enough for now. LATER, however, would be the right time to start expanding.
This is exactly what Apple did; they simply focused on appealing to the people they knew would buy their products: Apple Fanatics and the few people willing to take a chance with Macs. It was enough to pull them out of their slump and they stuck with that plan, even using their established Mac users as test bed for the iPod, until they finally knew what they needed to do to properly expand.
Sorry if I'm going all over the place, but even if HP and webOS doesn't have their "iPod", it doesn't matter right now... webOS has the following akin to Apple Mac Fanatics to keep webOS going, even if on a small scale at start. With enough time and patience, this core user group will grow and grow until HP has the "critical mass" to expand and experiment to encourage more growth by courting people from OUTSIDE the core group and "convert" them. Again, this is what Apple has been doing for the past fourteen years, simply because they are willing and patient to do whatever it takes to get people to the Mac (even if it takes making a completely different, non-Mac device to do it with).
Phew!
I understand what you are saying, but there are two problems with it: 1) you need carrier access (in the US at least) to make your product viable, and the economics aren't there for them to carry an OS that will have
TL;DR:
Competing with Microsoft is what nearly killed Apple. So when Apple started to focus on expanding what it had and try to be the best Apple it could be, THAT'S when it started to become successful. It also helped that, with NeXT, Apple had the next generation OS it needed to compete with.
Thus, HP needs to do what Apple did and STOP trying to compete with Apple and Google and START trying to establish itself as a mobile system that does the best it can be. The webOS--at present--shouldn't be an "iPhone Killer", but simply be the best little mobile operating system it can be. Then once it has to size and girth to make waves, THEN it can take on Apple. Fortunately too, webOS IS the next generation OS that HP needs to compete with Apple and Google, versus in 1997 when MacOS 7.5 was thirteen years old when Jobs came back.
With a little hard work and the right price, the webOS CAN (and hopefully WILL) make a stellar comeback!! And this isn't wishful thinking either, but based on hard historical fact! :)
Hmm… Wonder what the new WebOS strategy would be… iPad killer? Better than #1? Nope. We are not competing with the iPad? Tried it. This is an enterprise device. Good luck. Here's a thought. We just want to be a credible #4. That might work. Here's an idea for a slogan: "Try it! It's cheap!"
This just keeps getting better and better. :)
There's nothing wrong with being third place; Apple MacOS X is at a distant second from Microsoft's Windows, but that still doesn't stop Apple from being profitable (where do you think the money came from to make the iPod and iPhone?)
I feel the best webOS strategy would be something like "Unique and powerful, just like you!" or "Think different." .... Oh wait....
**** HP
with the damage done and money lost, i dont think hp is going back to webos hardware anytime soon. that would mean they would have to start from scratch again....now if they had a partner, that maybe a different story.
Why not, they seem to be changing their mind on everything else, regardless of how much it tarnishes their brand.
All I can say is I have tried the iPhone and the Epic 4G Andriod and I keep coming back to webOs. This is America and anything is possible. HP will come back and I believe they will be stronger than ever. This is the first step and it is to remove Leo.
HP has the resource and the money... all it has to do now is to get the right leader with vision and enough patience. I believe WebOS will someday be very profitable to the share holders.
Consumer electronics is a good business and Apple has proved that.
If I ran HP (at least the PSG), I'd do the following:
1) Start the Touchpad back up into production with a few tweaks (slightly upgraded processor and minor visual improvements), and try to sell it at a break even price of $300 for 16GB and $350 for 32GB. HP can make the profits back from sales of accessories, which I WOULDN'T reduce, plus 30% cut of app sales.
2) Design the next gen of Touchpad to compete with the iPad 3. THIS is the model you can sell to clients at a similar price point to Apple.
3) I'll be honest; I don't know what to do about the phones. HP needs to somehow partner up with Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, and T-Mobile (at least in the US) to get their Pre3 and Veer phones out, but I think a redesign is necessary. I think the form factors of the HP phones holds them back.
4) Put WebOS on its consumer desktop line as a replacement for BIOS/UEFI. This wouldn't preclude the machines from running Windows, it would just give them an instant-on alternative.
There's some money to be made off of WebOS; exciting WebOS products help sell mundane computer and printer products, ask any car dealer if a hot convertible in the showroom helps sell sedans...
Good comments, but the the next Touchpad needs to compete with the iPad4, not the 3, unless it's being released within 6 months.
I think webOS needs a non-phone appliance as well, similar to the iPod. Ipods have been a great way to introduce people to the iOS ecosystem without carrier issues or monthly plans. They make great gifts because of that as well.
A non-phone appliance that's sold at cost (and cheaper than the iOS) would be a great gift alternative. (A Touchpad doesn't work for this because of the price.)
Only problem I see for that is the iPods have great motivation -- the perception of an awesome music service. HP needs a funamental reason for the device, music, inet, whatever. Personally, I'd love to see this being cloud services of music, files, PIM functions, etc, plus options for easy non-cloud syncing to local devices. (Not everyone I know is sold on the concept of cloud.)