HP not willing to make the investments needed to drive webOS to greater marketshare | webOS Nation
 
 

HP not willing to make the investments needed to drive webOS to greater marketshare 118

by Derek Kessler Thu, 18 Aug 2011 5:39 pm EDT

When HP bought Palm, they set their sights on the mobile market and getting a #2 marketshare position in the tablet market behind the iPad. HP spent $1.2 billion on Palm, and immediately started development on the TouchPad, as well as gearing up to introduce the Veer and Pre3. We’re wondering if the Pre3 is ever going to see the light of day outside of Britain, as HP is planning to shut down webOS device operations by Q4 2011 (unclear if that means calendar or fiscal – fiscal would be sooner).

So the question is, after launching the TouchPad less than two months ago and investing what has to have been several hundred million additional dollars in webOS, why cut it off now? According to HP CEO Leo Apotheker on today's Q3 conference call, HP crunched the numbers again and looked at what it would take for webOS to gain acceptance (billions of dollars in R&D, carrier deals, and marketing) and decided it wasn’t worth it. While webOS could do well with HP’s massive money bags behind them, they weren’t willing to risk all of that money on “could.”

This also helps HP align themselves better with their plan to somehow spin off their Personal Systems Group. HP is undergoing a “significant transformation” from the world’s largest computer maker to an enterprise software and services company with a printer side business. Is this a good thing for webOS? Absolutely not, and it doesn’t reflect well on HP’s willingness to stomach risk.

Update: CFO Cathie Lesjak's exact words on the investment vs. risk:

"To make this investment a financial success would require significant investments over the next one to two years, creating risk without clear returns. Therefore we have decided to shut down operations around webOS devices and will be exploring strategic alternatives to optimize the value of the software platform and development capability."

118 Comments

Richard Kerris tweeted differently:

richardkerris richardkerris
We will increase our investment in #Enyo for the #HPwebOS platform
19 minutes ago
»
richardkerris
richardkerris richardkerris
#HPwebOS is an awesome software platform and now we can explore the best hardware partner for it. #onward.
1 hour ago

Except webOS needed the best hardware partner 12+ months ago.

Agreed. My point was that Derek's title is misleading. He should say "unwilling to make the investments IN HARDWARE needed to drive"

I think it is pretty clear that HP intends to license webOS. With Google's acquisition of Motorola (potentially freezing out manufacturers like Samsung and HTC), they might be able to get some quality suitors. But, they needed them yesterday, before this announcement.

I'd argue they're not willing to make the investment needed in software either. Why would anyone license webOS in its current shape?

Funny, HP just answered this question on the call as I was typing the answer and said basically the same thing.

The software portion costs only 1-2 cents/quarter, with the lion's share of the $300M in losses attributable to the hardware. By shutting down the hardware, they can license at a low price and still break even/make a profit.

Another hardware manufacturer may have better synergies to produce hardware at lower cost.

If Samsung can license webOS for less than $5/handset, they can offer a premium alternative to cheap Android handsets for not much more cost to them.

Thank you for posting this I missed the exact quote but thought it was said 1-2 cents.

Come on, I have been supportive despite all evidence. Now why would anybody want to licence a dead OS? Just for fun? Maybe a top Samsung executive still has a Pre- on Sprint?

With copious amounts of salt, if you believe what HP is saying, the OS is not dead. They are getting out of the hardware business. IBM did the EXACT same thing by selling their hardware to Lenovo.

If they can concentrate their resources on the software, a better manufacturer may want to license the OS to differentiate from the Android pack.

Right now Android makers are flailing because they cannibalize from each other. Mindshare for the TouchPad (read: webOS) was more than any single Android tablet. An HTC could make one phone and one tablet without too much investment, without committing fully to webOS, and see how it goes (hedge).

HP was "all in" on webOS and that didn't work. On the other hand, a hedge might work. I'd say if they can get iOS or Android apps to run on webOS, this could win.

A lot of ifs, but don't let your hatred of HP and P|C doomsday mentality cloud the fact that there is a possibility that this could work.

There is no possibility. HP just outlined in great detail the huge expenditures and challenges ANY hardware maker would face if they wanted to make WebOS a success in the phone or tablet spaces.

More importantly, Samsung and HTC are already deep in for the next 12-18 months with the number 2 and 3 viable platforms - WP7 and Android.

There's no benefit in making an "android apps player" or iOS player, either. They can't even get all Mojo apps to run right on native hardware.

thanks for bringing this back to reality

"HP was "all in" on webOS and that didn't work."

...you repeat too much bull...t from what you've heard on press conferences, interviews, and fanboy sites. HP NEVER was "all in" with webOS, they were fiddling around with it, and labouring under delusion, that they will release a cute phone here, a tablet there, slap some ridiculous price tags on them "because they have a better product", and "to make a statement", and start counting cash.

Oh, others are plying hard? Oh, it is too much to invest, to gain marketshare? Ok, we are out after 3 months of "soft launches".

That's the reality, how "all in" they are with webOS. Can't see how it could improve in a company that faces cuts, cuts, cuts, share prices falling like a rock, employees dissatisfaction, anger, frustration and anxiousness about their workplace, extremely poorly managed, no vision apart from deluded visions of "the future of connected devices" (like we don't have that already, and WITHOUT webOS, thank you).

As I was trying to break the news here in the comments for a loing while, they were systematically killing webOS chances, month after month, and that quarterly earning call is the last nail in the coffin.

NO ONE serious manufacturer in his right mind, would invest and bound his future with a company that has LESS THAN ZERO credibility, is managed so tragically, and the only thing you can be sure about what they say, is that will sure as **** do something, but NOT what they are saying.

oh, and secondly: as a competitors, delivering third-party OSes to hardware manufacturers/developers/users communities, Google and Microsoft will EAT HP ALIVE, laughing all the way down.

The only "threat" to them from HP, is they might choke from laughing at them.

The software is the biggest weakness. No wonder if they're not spending anything on it as you've said. HP would need to invest much much more into it. The OS itself is barebones and hardly optimized.

What core services does HP bring? What about apps? What ecosystem?

When you look at the other platforms, you see companies that spent years (and invest heavily) on developing those core services.

"What core services does HP bring? What about apps? What ecosystem? "

...didn't you heard Kerris? NOW, they will focus on that part! LOL /sarcasm.

Probably, "in the coming years"

From the This is my next transcript:

6:01 pm Q: How will you make webOS profitable?

6:02 pm A: (Cathy) We expect the dev expenses to come down dramatically -- down to 1 or 2 cents per share a quarter. If you look at the run rate losses there, you can attribute them pretty much to Palm.

6:02 pm Again -- so, so harsh. They're tired of paying for Palm with no results.

No more development on WebOS. No more hardware. Operations ending. Can WebOS work without Palm servers? Can the email client work without Synergy?

webOS is only a scapegoat here, much needed in the current state of affairs.

Can HP auction off their #2 rank in tablet mindshare?

I bid two unicorn teeth and one fulfilled Leo promise.

One of the pillars of HP's failure was the lack of developer support. So NOW Kerris is going to increase the investment in Enyo?

Richard, please, HP is making you a dupe. You know when Leo goes to lunch and pretends he doesn't see you? He does. Don't be so gullable.

Good think I didn't go buy one last week. All I can say is that it some times pays not to be the early adopter. Then again, it doesn't pay to stay with this platform till it sinks. I should have moved along time ago, but had high hopes when HP bought them.

Haha... Derek posted this as he´s live blogging the earnings call? Awesome.

Too bad it´s such a terrible story :(

What does shut

down devices mean.?

HP will not be developing hardware. They are moving forward with software. Multiple mentions of looking at all possibilities for the software, licensing, 3rd party, PC, etc.

Obvious corporate/earnings call talk, but nothing about abandoning software at this time.

Leo did say he couldn't speak about it in any more direct terms until the board evaluates all possible options.

The above is business wide, not just webOS, multiple mentions of software having higher return. (have been listening to the whole call)

You can't believe what HP says. This is all damage control. HP has no intent of continuing as custodian of webOS. Which means no one would want to license it. It would take too much investment.

Please read the post above from Tasogare. I heard the same exact thing listening to the call. And this was in direct response to a question of how HP would make money licensing the software.

Clearly HP has looked at this with a cost/benefit analysis, they wouldn't have had the figures if they hadn't.

Clearly you haven't been paying attention. Actions speak louder than anything HP says (who can't be trusted at all anymore). They have no intent on supporting webOS.

You're hearing what you want to hear.

I am hearing what is *SAID*.

You are hearing or interpreting what you want to hear.

And what is being said is totally unreliable. Especially since it's before the house cleaning. Right now, they're scrambling to spin this disaster. And failing miserably.

yeah, I hear what is said, and it sounds like a bul...., pretending to be a chocolate!

you insist to swallow it - fine with me...

And I just bought a pre3....

Don't feel bad. I wish I had one too. I would have a phone I like for a couple more years and then pick something new. I have to make the choice now. I don't like iOS and Android. I think I'll give Windows7 a try. Maybe they got it right this time...

Been using mango for a couple weeks now, they got it right. Every major app you want, games, and hardware. Sad to see webos go.

Good to hear, I'm excited to try it.

Good riddance HP.

Hey, where can I get a dirt cheap 32GB or 64GB Touchpad? Should be easy to get one for $100 or less now!

I'm amazed that Kerris could be taking this position with anything resembling a straight face.

I think he hopes he'll continue to have a job and a division, regardless of the grim reality. He should bring his team to Microsoft to work on their tablets.

you are right In this economy I am sure he is worried about his job. and former developer rep for palm/hp wont fly on a resume

What does this mean for Precentral.net?

Good opportunity to rename to WebOSCentral.net?

A possible renaming. Though sadly, it probably will meet the same fate as Nokia Experts, eventual shutdown.

It all depends on if HP can find someone to license WebOS to.

Even the "licensing" by HP is stupid. You don't publicly kill your platform and ecosystem just before you market it to potential buyers/licensees. No, HP is either the stupidest company to exist, or is flat-out lying. Either way, WebOS died today.

Agreed.

Probably the same fate as webOS..

This was mentioned repeatedly in the past. HP was never willing to go all in on webOS. They were never willing to acquire core services to leverage which would take billions. They weren't willing to do what it took to get big name developers or carriers in line.

If i was HP i would consider it too big a risk as well. They did the right thing today. They corrected a mistake which was buying webOS. Stick to what you know. HP tried to be someone they aren't and wasn't the right company for it.

Agreed, except they should have aborted the TP before it went to manufacturing, just like they did with Pre 3. They misled a lot of the faithful by releasing that thing and are hopefully getting burned for it.

I guess they wanted to go through the motions before telling investors...

I think the thing that makes Apple so great is it's ability to control both the software and the hardware. They can make a single core processor on the iPhone(4) perform like butter with iOS because it's a fixed product. HP had that advantage. If they license it out, HP will lose a clear advantage in the field against Android and Windows Phone 7.

Oh well, just my two cents.

What happen to double down :(

You just experienced. You been f'd over twice.

WebOS is dead. Long live WebOS.

So sad as WebOS was the best phone software and could have been the best pad software to boot.

I am going back to dumb phones and reclaim my independence.

I find it refreshing not to be connected all the time.

So long WebOS it has been a long and trying two years next month but I no longer see the need for any smart phone.

As for HP, I will never support them again in my life time. HP has shown me that it is a company full of losers, not winners.

+1 re: dumb phones. /Maybe/ I'll get a mifi for my Touchpad.

WTF!!!! Seriously???? I am going to see if I can Brick my TP so I can return it since I am past Best Buys 14 day return policy. And I still Want my $50 check from HP for still being on a Day 1 Pre- (which I just got replaced for the first time yesterday). I have had it. The only thing now is Android or Windows phone on the Now Network.

Hey HP. Thanks for tricking me into buying the Touchpad. I absolutely love it! **** you as far as my phone goes though! I'm glad you're out. I'll go with a crappy HTC Droid for that. Atleast with them I know I'm going to getting worked over for something that will still be around in 2yrs. Goodbye and good riddance! (And this is coming from a Pre- day one owner, who still has his original Pre).

I am sad. Got my touchpad on Tuesday and loving it. To lose support now? Why launch at all? Who is going to buy the stock? It is a great opportunity to get the accessories at the fire sale. :-(

I feel your pain, you would be wise in returning your TouchPad, save the money and buy and iPad 3, I'm pretty sure you'll be blown away by it, that's what I would do if I were you and I had your wallet.

Once upon a time, HP was synonymous with quality. However, since Carly Fiorina took over in 1999, they have suffered from poor leadership and a distinct lack of focus. I have been a PalmOS/WebOS user since '96, but HP has kicked us to the side of the road. The only question left is iOS, WP7 or Android.

Sorry to see you go, WebOS.

Good thing you guys held off on renaming the site...

This is awesome. So glad I jumped ship last year. Kill it... kill it now.

**** You!!!

everybody off

Troll and a boring troll at that.

The question is when they crunched the numbers again.

Consider, with today's announcement, their promotion for the Veer and Pre 2, the unfinished TP with no apps, and the delayed (for no apparent reason) Pre 3. This behavior leads me to believe that they did their number crunching months ago and simply strung everyone along till today.

You'd think they would of done the number crunching before spending 1.2 billion dollars...

I think they crunched the numbers after realizing that WebOS was a mess and would require huge investment re-writing it to speed it up. See the Mojo-Enyo thingy.

those proprietery bits of userland stuff must be a hot mess to warrant this.

You strung yourself along, the handwriting was on the wall for a long time.

And that's why Sprint has been so odd about their responses to WebOS users.

The 800lb question in the room has to be...how long till Precentral.net is shut down.

i give it two weeks before we see a palm pre 3 postmortem

Looks like it all ends here. I loved WebOS but all of this is Palm's and HP's fault. They had an amazing software to succeed although it may have come a little too late.

I was forced to quit using my Pre-, no more updates and nothing new to get excited about I had to pick up an EVO 3D and now I am a happy owner of an amazing android phone and a 4th generation ipod, I have the very best available right now.

I will keep my pre as a reminder of how not to do business.

RIP

Amen brotha!

So everyone who purchased any of HP's new devices in the last four or five months since they've been available is left with an orphan, sans new updates, replacements in the event of failure, and possibly even server hosting for apps and account details after a while.

Any partner who was investing heavily in HP's ecosystem who believed in the company's commitment to the platform is also probably feeling pretty burnt right now.

This will also have the unfortunate effect of burning carriers badly enough that new platforms will have difficulty taking off. I'd imagine AT&T is going to have a number of very unhappy Veer customers showing up at stores demanding new devices, for instance.

You mean for the past year? Those who bought the Pre Plus on AT&T have not gotten a replacement device and WebOS 1.4.5, even though 2.1 was made available to those in Europe.

HP CEO Leo Apotheker retreating to what he understands, Software, since he came from SAP.So much for Ruby's, "we will make it up to you" (Early Adopters). At least I didn't get stuck with a Pre3 with no support. I guess I am done with HP, also. I had a horrible experience with them back in the mid '90's and had a pit in my stomach when I bought an "all in one" a couple of months ago, but thought it might be all right. Have had trouble with it since I bought it, but since I bought it a Costco I will wait a few months and return it so that HP has to "eat it"!
Done with HP!! No Integrity.......

Poor little buggers, at least you weren't as obnoxious as the fandroids. I mean you still made bogus claims about the almighty WebOS but it was more out of innocence and less out of envy like those copycat fandroids!

I salute you! (double fist on chest and peace sign)

lmao,we know in our hearts that we webheads are the opposite of fandroid we are not +1 we are #1+
#everybodyoff

You're an idiot.

Complete or partial? Maybe so, but that's probably contingent to my opinion of webOS, at least in your emotional state of mind.

Don't worry, this too will pass! With any luck you will see webOS on your next maytag washer

One more comment:

Looking at the market after hours, this could also be the beginning of the end for HP.

Seriously, the only thing they have left is printers, and cash. Their enterpise servicing will take a huge hit as their share price erodes and customers worry about thier ability to survive another 5 years with this type of poor leadership and constant changes in leadership and policies.

I think they'll bounce back with the right leadership. They just need to stick to what they do best.

Please HTC buy webOS/Palm. You are the last hope!

Rubenstein and HP: may you both burn in hel* for killing webOS/Palm! Shame on you!

The worst part of the story is that the guy who burned a few billions and killed a good product and a good company didn't even have to deploy his golden parachute.

So disgusted with HP... I guess I'll wait to see what happens next. I was going to get 2 Pre3's but if there's no support why bother, and all that depends upon them even releasing the damn thing.

1. Will I have support for my TouchPad?

2. Is anyone ever going to develop anothr app for webOS?

3. Will all upper management at HP please die?

4. Right now!

remember that story about the dev who has seen lots of downloads of his app since the touchpad release....don't give up hope after the price cut there will be tons more devices flooding the market.
#everybodyoff

That will be anounced in the coming weeks and months ahead!

I am so tired of supporting the underdog all the time, but I don't have the moneyz to support the top dogs.

I'm liking how Windows phone is coming along.

Now to delete precentral.net from my bookmarks, :(

After all that, I still want my Pre3.

Is it me or does Leo A sound like the South African ambassador in Lethal Weapon 2?? 'Diplomatic Immunity.....'

Viva THE webOS, right Ari Jaaksi??

Also, no more fretting over what carrier to switch to for us Sprint lifers.

"This behavior leads me to believe that they did their number crunching months ago and simply strung everyone along till today."

Interesting. At this point, I wonder if "exploring other options" for WebOS is more of the same, and that, in reality, WebOS is dead with no more hardware, and no (at least not public yet) option for licensing.

With WP7 and Android in strong, I highly doubt Samsung or HTC (or someone else) would bother at this point. Why?

Palm: WebOS failed.
HP: WebOS relaunched - failed.

Anyone taking a chance on licensing it would be taking a considerable risk.

No one is going to license this dead end software. Why would HTC or Samsung want to build a phone for a OS that has no real support?

Face it WebOS is dead. Let it die and move on.

Look, if anyone really wants to believe that "exploring other options" is a sign of hope and that WebOS might get a 3rd chance at life...well, you deserve what you get.

Exactly...do you think anyone is going to develop apps for webOS after this. Palm should of went to RIM, combining QNX and webos would be amazing. Sometimes the highest offer isn't always the best..

"exploring other options" means they are looking for someone to buy the Palm/WebOS IPs.

That said, I eagerly await Tim's article about how the TouchPad is about to enter a remarkable period of prosperity.

LOL +1

I'm looking forward to the visual aids that will certainly be present in said article (no numbers though).

I mentioned in a comment a while back that I thought HP would probably quit smartphones in a couple years - boy, was I wrong. It's just as I said: the smartphone/tablet field is furiously competitive, and HP, which bombed at their first attempt at cellphones, tried it again, apparently thinking that money, "reach", and "scope" (combined with some Palm wetware) would push their way to success. Again, they found themselves against two battle-hardened, mean and lean hardware/software makers - Apple and RIM - and two very smart software developers, Google and Microsoft, that didn't really want HP or WebOS to succeed at all. Combine that with lack of true ambition for the hardware side of things, and there you go. I was a Palm OS user for years before the Pre; when it was clear that Palm OS was no more (for all intents and purposes), I looked at webOS, but it wasn't something I could successfully port and run my business on - but, while converting to iOS on the iPod Touch, I kept an eye on webOS to see if it could ever turn into something I could use in the future. When I saw HP purchase Palm, and saw how they were handling things, I kissed it goodbye. The iOS is turning out to be very, very good for my uses, and BlackBerry is my communicator. I feel for you guys that invested in webOS hardware - especially recently!

Early adopters, better use your $50 app credit while you still can.

Bla, bla, bla... webos dead... bla, bla, bla...

I just wanna buy a Pré³ AND a TP 32GB!!

:-D

Dead or alive, works very well to me!!

:-D

Best Regards... B)

Why would any manufacturer license WebOS now? HP has zero incentive to develop for it now. Even when their own profit line depended on getting updates out fast, they couldn't deliver. And now when it's someone else's profit line? No way.

If WebOS is going to survive -- highly dubious -- it will be because someone buys it outright. But given the current state of things, chances are the unit would be purchased for its patents and everything else thrown away.

I'd really rather see it survive, but I don't see it happening.

Are there any lawyers listening? It sounds like there could be grounds for a class-action suit against HP, depending on when they "crunched the numbers". Launching a product that they had already mostly decided to kill should be sufficient cause.

i hope you die HP and i hope crappy dell crushes you in market share.

im really happy to see them leave hardware. I hope the big printers they have that are like large $8000 copiers died today too.

All these years as a Palm and WebOS fan. bought three webos phones, and now the TP. So what now? As I am now past my 14 day bestbuy return program on my TP, what do I do? the TP is buggy and I have to reboot once a day to get it to work.

Palm killed itself, HP tried to resuscitate it, but in the end, it died anyway.

Now what? Android or iOS? and am I really going to spend a couple hundred $$ on phones now, or do I wait for the + and 2 to die?

Ugh!

sell it on ebay. I am sure if you talk to bb maybe they will let you return it
#everybodyoff

Does this mean Sprint is not getting the Pre3. :)

remember this is a marathon not a "Sprint"
#everybodyoff

Exactly my thoughts. HP bought Palm knowing webOS had a long way to go. But then they killed them without giving them a chance to fight.

HP has now become my most hated company. They bought my favorite company and killed it.

It's like I had a puppy named webOS that I couldn't take care of anymore. HP came along and offered to give it a good home, then promptly drowned webOS in a dirty pond.

Thank you HP for all of your blundering and fails that led to this.

Like many webOS fans, I held onto hope that the launch of the Touchpad & upcoming Pre3 were signs that HP was making the necessary investments to build their phone, tablet & mobile device ecosystem into a real open source rival to Apple & Android. After the announcement today, I feel cheated, lied to, and utterly saddened by all the poor decisions that HP has made. If this is truly the case, that the hardware is dead & there are no current suitors for licensing the OS that anyone has heard of, then I'm returning my Touchpad this weekend and all accessories. I'll spend my phone upgrade on an iPhone & buy an iPad if I want a tablet. I've long hated Apple's control tactics, but lets face it... the product is sweet, works well & has a ton of apps. If webOS devices are dead to HP, HP is dead to me.

This is how I feel, except I truely hate apple. I have bought thier products to have apple make them obsolete fast on purpose. I am not talking about coming out with better product. I'm talking about how accessories don't work with next gen items. ipods don't charge in docks. don't fit. etc. etc.

Yep, this is my main problem with Apple. I own a Macbook but that is as far as I'm willing to go. All other products are made to last a short time.

It's especially disgusting with iPods and docks.

I've owned a palm device for eight years. I was excited about webOS. I bought quite a few apps. Now they're going to pull the plug? What about the money I invested in this thing? This news hurt my feelings. My sister told me I should've bought an iphone. She was right.

"While webOS could do well with HP’s massive money bags behind them, they weren’t willing to risk all of that money on “could.” "

WTF?
What were they thinking when they bought Palm last year? That they pay 1.2 bn, add a few nice words and a couple of dev-months into it and then print money on it?
This market has strong competition - for anybody with half a brain it must have always been obvious that this is a (for the first 1-2 years at least) costly campaign.

And "could" is all you *ever* get. There is no "safe" or "sure".

Apple invested a lot of preperation before they launched the IPhone and later IPad. It could have gone wrong (past attemps by Apple ton introduce cool new hardware did not always work out so well - see Newton).

Once upon a time MS was facing a market where other companies dominated the market for office applications. But they bought companies, hired programmers and offered a first version of Word. It was cr*ppy and didn't get far, but they didn't give up and brought out another version. A bit better and a bit more successful but still the wordprocessing market belonged to the competition. It took them years to conquer it through gradually improving versions and aggressive marketing.
And it was well worth conquering. Office is still the MS cash cow (that and windows is still most all of MS profits).

Google sure spend a lot of money on "could" when they developed and then gave away Android.

How *not* to get ahead: Give up right after you started.

And they don't seem to have a problem with investing billions in the next great venture - cloud computing. That's a lot of money to spend on "could".

Again there is strong and well established competition (Google, Amazon, Oracle, IBM).
Should we expect the next towel in 2013 when the move into cloud services didn't go as well as planned?

Also without carrier partners and not delivering on several announcements how could they expect webos devices to really take off within a few weeks?

Sigh

The Ghost of ECCOpro! Anyone remember that software? Ahead of its time, overlooked when MS began pushing Outlook, then bought and killed. And... Still supported by a rabid group of followers 15 years later!

The problem with all of the WEBOS products have been, that they were NEVER cutting edge! I blame all of this on Jon Rubi! The new products(NOT cutting edge) that came out after HP took over; would have worked but definitely in a different order. They should have released the PRE 3 first (In veers place), unlocked and at a great price point! This would have got the diehard PALMsters to buy a new product and get the word out. As well, as generated a BUZZ! People need apps, I get it. But if they would have had a hand full of great apps, it would have held the consumer over for a little while. Then the Touchpad (A 7in, not the 10in and with a rear camera). These two releases would have gotten me out to buy both products and I would have been semi satisfied for awhile. This would have given HP enough time to license out WEBOS to a couple of different companies. Oh and they wouldn't have to be exclusive to WEBOS! In closing I really do think that WEBOS phones and tablets are not dead, they will be picked up by a different company thru licensing. LONG LIVE WEBOS!

P.S. I hope the companies come by pretty quick b/c my Pre plus is crapping out.

**** Now I have 24hrs to decide if I should return my new TP or not. Will anyone still develope for it? Doc editing? Homebrew, will they still care? and after my dive in with the TP I ordered a pre2 to sprintify... Should I give up and relist it right back on ebay? I thought I got such a good deal on the TP and now I feel like I paid way too much and bought too many accessories.

I would return it. It's just too much money for a potentially trouble future product.

"Works Like Nothing Else"
Who knew that meant that they won't build anything else?

ok lets review some of the decisions the great management team at hp has done. they decide to buy palm for 1.2 billion because they saw there desktops and laptops sales decline due to the ipad. they announce the think beyond event to release the details of their new products. there we find out that "legacy" users are no longer getting updates, the pre 2 is coming to verizon in several weeks, and that theres a pre 3 coming in 6 months. also they tried to make us believe that there was a market for a tiny smartphone. they release the veer first. then a buggy touchpad with no apps and wonder why they didnt sell good. now as the biggest tech manufacturer in the world they decide they are not going to manufacture anything at all but instead focus on cloud services and software. what is wrong with these people. im seeing the demise of hp as well.........

Well, a sigh of relief! I won't have to spend any money on HP. HP stinks. I've had grave doubts about HP. A company that sells tiny bladder printers, expensive refills, and NO customer service.

My love for WebOs helped me look past those facts...until now. It's cool. I'll miss WebOs but I'll be quite happy about HP's demise.

Sarah Palin for CEO of HP.

The perfect quitter for a quitter.

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