HP's Rahul Sood: Hot hardware will bring in developers; Updated x2 312
We've been keeping a close eye on HP's Rahul Sood, who has been the most vocal of HP's executives about the potential of webOS in the future. In addition to a recent blog post on Palm's official blog where he waxes on about how great hardware can generate excitement, Sood also has been engaging in a discussion on Palm's Facebook page where he notes that what we've seen of webOS 2.0 thus far is "just a taster" and that using it is "like wearing velvet."
That confluence of new features in webOS 2.0 and exciting new hardware is just what Palm needs right now to help solve another vexing problem for the platform: getting more and better apps. Sood himself just tweeted as much, saying that "everyone [developers] will want in once the presentation of the hardware is in front of them." We like that sound of that, though citing the roadmap "over the next 12 months" isn't exactly the time window we were hoping to hear.
Which do you think comes first in the chicken and egg game of sweet apps and sweet hardware?
Update: In case you were feeling optimistic about imminent new webOS hardware, we'll let Sood's own words bring you down a notch:
... don't expect anything soon, please stop asking "when" --- i'd rather be straight with you. these things take time...
Update 2: Ah Twitter, how you strip away context and nuance. Sood's 'soon' above refers to not expecting an announcement soon, as he clarifies in a blog post. As we wrote in the original post, that window of releasing devices is still a very large 12 months:
You will certainly see products released over the next 12 months, some sooner than others, and some which are very exciting to me. The stuff that excites me the most are the new form factors. Now, when I said "over the next 12 months," I really mean over the next 12 months. Not at the end of 12 months, not tomorrow...but over the next 12 months we will see the makings of a new portfolio and the beginning of something great again. There is no predefined window of opportunity in the technology business; lack of innovation is the only thing that closes the window.
Whether "sooner than others" translates to "two thousand ten" is another vexing issue.
Source: @rahulsood
312 Comments
what kind of no brainier question is that in the end of the post?
All I can say is "POOR PALM". Your always a day late and a dollar short. With the smart phone movement traveling at light speed (thanks to Apple and Android), you really don't have time to wait another 6 months to a year to release new hardware. The reality is that the longer you are away, the more people forget about you and market saturation is everything. You have had your loyal Sprint customers waiting over 2 years for new hardware (don't forget Sprint customers have been the most loyal Pre fans out there from the beginning). With that being said, it looks like Apple is working in lighting speed to introduce a CDMA iphone for either Verizon or Sprint. If this happens before Palm introduces new hardware, it could mean a slow and painful death for Palm. At that point most all your loyal customer will have defected and once you loose your loyal fan base it is nearly impossible to get them back. I know you want to release a phenomenal new phone without jumping the gun but you wanted to do that back with the original Pre and unfortunately you missed the ball when it came to hardware. The long wait for the original Pre did not produce an amazing product because most of our Pre's are not even lasting for a full 2 years. I am very careful with my phone but I have had 3 replacement phones in 1 year. Now on my 3rd phone and it will definitely not last another 6-12 months. So HP should listen up, if HTC can spit out a new Android phone it seems like every 2-3 months, then you can surely give us something before the end of the year. This time however you should study your history (Pre & Pixi) and realized how your hardware killed your ideas of success. Those who fail to recognize their history are doomed to repeat it. At this point the only reason I am loyal to my Pre is because of Precentral and the amazing people who produce patches and themes. These people are the true hero's of Palm and they should be recognized, embraced and rewarded. However if my current hardware will not hold up the only patch that I will be able to utilize will be a band-aid.
P.S. My friend has had his iphone 3G for over 2 years and has never once sent it back for hardware issues, and it is still holding up very strong. I have also had my ipod classic for even longer than that and that sucker has never been repaired, replaced or broken and is still going strong. The hardware is still as beautiful and up to date looking, just as the day I bought it.
P.S.S. I would recommend having a Palm expert such as Dieter or the guys from TIPB give your new products a test run. This will give you their valuable feedback before you mass produce your product and possibly save you from more lackluster hardware. If you had done this before you may have been able to save yourself from the mediocre hardware on the Pre and the "WTF" hardware on the Pixi.
P.S.S.S. I got the feeling with the Pre and the Pixi that they were made for a female market. The reason I think this is because the Pre was obviously made for extra small hands and the Pixi was made for someone with very small hands and from another planet (like Venus). With this being said, the majority of women smart phone users (in my opinion) prefer the iphone because of the elegant, high-class styling. This is something that most Android and Blackberry phones lack. I am not saying to knock off the iphone design but you need to take their design and intensify the visual appeal times 10. AND DO IT QUICKLY!
*Items stated in this posting are strictly my opinion and are for your reading pleasure only. I am not an expert, I am only a client.
all I can say is POOR TROYANTHONY, whaaaaa my phone keeps breaking whaaaaaa I have fat fingers whaaaaaa my Pre isn't sleek and cool looking like....? The Iphone? Ha! HTC? Ha! Well perhaps you would prefer a "phone" that is the size of the first cell phone in history and seeming you need a purse to carry it or a man purse in your case it sounds like the droids and iphones are geared more towards women or gay men in your case.....ps, i've had the same Pre since it's release day 1 and have close to 200 patches, including the Uberkernal/Govnah which had my Pre overclocked to 800Mhz for 4 months and now i've been running @ 1Ghz for the past month and never had even a hiccup....what were you saying about the hardware again? Oh that's right your opinion, that means nothing in regards to The Pre, it's Hardware and OS just because you broke your phone 3x with your fat finger trying to put it in your man purse that you carry even though the Pre is still in the "phone" cat and can be placed in a holster, unlike the...? Things, doesn't mean Palm should copy the droids or apple trash bc it's trendy...we want good tech not cool looks i'll gladly, their is nothing those things can do that my Pre can't...besides 4G but i'll bet $ we'll have 4G available in my area B4 the Pre 2, patiently waiting
I am on my 3rd Pre and I did not break the other two.
#1 - Launch Day, Bad Keyboard
#2 - Developed a bubble where the outer plastic delaminated from the LCD panel
The fact that you mentioned "2 years" numerous times in the contexts you did means either we've traveled forward in time over 9 months or you have not put the thought into your post to suit its length.
"2 years" is most likely a reference to the January 2009 announcement of the Pre.
Well, than that is incredibly stupid.
You are an idiot !
Why would Apple be wasting their time with a CDMA device ?
CDMA is old tech and will be dissolved. Wake up America the rest of the world is GSM !
As for Palm being behind Apple I quote Dieter ' Palm is not Apple ! It never will be ! Stop dreaming ! '
Palm produce the most innovated and well planned devices .... With faults included.... It's not for everybody.... But it will be....
Android can churn out the devices that's fine.... Nobody cares.... One word... FRAGMENTATION !
How can you compare an iPod to Pre hardware ? You doos !
Palm's future is not measured by the Apple ruler anymore....
Web OS is the focus.... Mobile Phones/ Smart Phones are getting phased out... Mobile Carriers have to wake up to the Web not cellular communication...
Go sit in the shade of your Apple tree and listen to your iPod
Clearly someone is in denial. Palm failed. Android is exploding with new customers. Nobody cares? Yea no one cares about WebOS outside of Precentral & HP. Sprint is happy to have nice Android phones now so they too don't care about WebOS right now. Things may change when HP brings out whatever bag of goodies they have for WebOS, but right now...sorry to break it to ya, WebOS is an after thought.
Perfection takes time. :)
Blah blah blah. Didn't Rahul say that he wasn't going to tease us? What is this crap. I'm starting to agree with Derek's "Say nothing if you have nothing to say."
Watch...myOS is going to have devs drooling when they see the software and hardware I'm going to come out with. Nothing soon, mind you, but it's going to be AWESOME!
Hold the show:
"@rahulsood #webOS community ur all awesome! i'll get blog out 2morrow stay tuned & pls don't misinterpret my tweet frm earlier. will explain in blog!"
LOL. Of course. Let's throw out another morsel of hope to keep the fish dangling.
Pre users are like those old soldiers who refuse to believe the war has been over for years.
Yeah, his comments are almost word-for-word the punchline from that old joke about the three women and their husbands....
chicken?
the egg came first. you had two chickens that mated to create the new line of bird (be it what ever is different). then the bird hatched and got other birds pregnant and since its genes were stronger it took over.
the egg came first. You had egg flying laying reptiles long before chickens. At some point through a series of mutations these flying reptiles became, over hundreds of years, chickens.
YES!!! I am glad to see other people have reasoned this out, too!
I guess Palm and HP are starting up the hype-machine for webOS 2.0 and new hardware. I just want to know what the timetable is going to be, I think they should have a very quick timetable so that the hype doesn't have a chance to cool off.
...But do they know that the community hyped itself a long time ago, and is probably waning momentum. Our fault, yes, but that's the reality of Palm's situation.
ok ok, im hyped, now hand it over! :D
so basically no hardware this year. sniff sniff.
what i was hoping that palm, b4 the buy, had stuff in development, and hp would just tweak the materials (get better pricing for better materials).
did palm not have stuff in the pipeline or was it not worth "upgrading".
the longer they take the more ppl will switch and be locked in for 2 years.
i know mr sood believes it in his heart that if they build it they would come, but the longer it takes the harder it would be for ppl to "come."
perception is that palm is already dead.
and im leaning toward that hp will make a killer tablet with webos and they will sell many, but that phones may be an also ran.
One rumor is that Palm was working on new device(s), but the hardware was already "obsolete" by the time HP bought Palm. Realizing this, HP pursued more cutting edge hardware which may have restarted the clock.
Now, that rumor is worth every penny you just paid for it. ;-)
Interesting point, and possibly part of the reason, but I don't believe Palm was working on obsolete hardware.
Perhaps Palm was working on new hardware and was running short of capital to finish development. Along comes HP and the infusion of cash to continue.
Along the way, HP says, "Hey, I believe we need to take a look at what you have, where you're going, and possibly make some course corrections before you release the next product."
With HP's resources behind new hardware, they are full steam ahead, but need to be VERY careful about announcing new hardware, because they probably have a lot of hardware sitting out in the warehouse that they need to sell.
At least Sprint got with the program and discounted the Pre/Pixies so they could move them out.
I'm really looking forward to the next Pre, but my existing phone is working fine now. I'd be happy with 2.0 software for the next 9 months until my full upgrade time rolls around.
well dieter its not such a no brainer question,but to answer your question, I think it has to be 1a. Hardware
1b. Apps
1c. Unified marketing and launch.
I think with all the problems of the 1.4.5 update (not all devices sharing the same capabilities) it really hinders any momentum that may be created by new hardware and apps. I know for me, its pretty wack how the android platform and even ios is not smoothly unified amongst all devices available. HPalm has something quite special in that they have an operating system that can be "scaled over multiple platforms".
perfection, in our case, execution does take time. Plus I'm still enjoying meesing around with my Pre. If I get a new device I want it to be complete and solid.
"everyone [developers] will want in once the presentation of the hardware is in front of them."
That's a heck of a boast. I like it. ...and I'll bet he's right.
"over the next 12 months"
But, if it's gonna be 12 months, I may have a torrid 10 month affair w/ a 4G Galaxy Epic ;-)
his most recent tweet is great!
@rahulsood: anyone who thinks "the window is closing" doesn't understand how to open a window :-) use a screwdriver if you have to.
I really like this guy!
and 39 mins ago:
... don't expect anything soon, please stop asking "when" --- i'd rather be straight with you. these things take time...
Is he telling us to screwdriver his window to see his new device?
SOMEONE needs to reassure me the next gen phone will be here before the end of the yeer.. If i dont hear anything back, then I may have to have the Evo for a year... I should have done it when I was first eligible, so I wouldnt have to wait as long assuming they get the phone out early 2011! >:/
PAAAAAAAAALM! Give us a date pleeeaase!
He's leaking hints already! Obviously when he says "take a screwdriver to a window" he means that the front of the new device will be made of gorilla glass. :)
Any mention of screwdrivers makes me nervous that someone will get screwed. As long as it is the competition and not the loyal (rabid) fanbase, then I am OK with it.
If this isn't one of the worst PR nightmares for Palm, I don't know what else is. This person obviously knows NOTHING about how to market a prouct. PERIOD. Where do you even begin to trash these comments? Outside of the obvious, first of all, if you are telling developers that a year from now, things are going to be so awesome (blah blah blah), you've lost already, because no intelligent person is going to tell themselves that they'll stick with Palm and have no refresh coming in over a year. (when the product is already 2 yrs old!) You really don't have a grasp on reality and where you stand in the market right now. With numbers continually on the decline for Palm, you just don't tell people to "hang on" for another year. Give me a break. Do you really think I'm going to continue investing my hard earned money into a dying platform with no near term future in sight? Do you really tink I am going to keep buying apps for a product that I likely won't refresh when I'm available to? A new droid phone comes out every six months, that's called refresh. (and don't even start with the comments that you don't want a hardware refresh every six months b/c you feel your hardware will be obsolete - get real, it's obsolete whether palm releases one or not. Have you seen a droid incredible lately?)
and what in the world kind of response is "stop asking, we'll release it when ready, these things take time? Yea, right. Customers aren't going to take kindly with that. The last vendor that told similar comments to their customer was Sun Microsystems, and where are they today?
palm I've been a long time customer of yours, but if the phone isn't released in October and if it doesn't blow the socks off the nearest competitor, sorry, but I'm gone. I'm tired of "hanging in there" with no updates, no refreshes, and no reasonable timelines. Sad to see you go like this. This is definitely not good news. People will jump ship, not likely to return.
People like you bother me.
Listen to the man, shut up, move on, and cry that you didn't wait when it gets released.
and people like you are uneducated, have no grasp on reality and put all your stock in a dying platform. You haven't the first clue how to sell a product and clearly don't know how to market one. Go ahead and stay with Palm, if this speculation is true and we'll see where you'll be one to two years out.
I'd hate to see your stock portfolio. Are you still investing in dying companies too? How's your 401k looking?
It's crazy you can tell a man's education level in less than 20 words. You should take that act on the road. At the very least take it to another forum.
"I'd hate to see your stock portfolio."
That speaks volumes about you, and it isn't whispering sweet nothings mate. Get a grip, this is a phone forum.
Your comments are so enlightening. Do tell.
Hey, why don't you send me payment for $100 and I'll ship you a crap phone with no updates in 12 months. I know you'll enjoy that, since you don't seem to understand the levity of Sood's comments and what it will do to HPalm.
Yes, I'm a very uneducated Software Engineer.
Again,
Step 1. give up.
Step 2. Flush your Pre/Pixi.
Step 3. Move on.
Step 4. Look at the newest WebOS device when it is released, and you're trapped for 3 years for that soon EOL Android.
Step 5. Cry.
Step 6. Goto Step 3.
How fortunate, I too am a software developer. Here's my code:
Step 1. Promise customers new hardware and software
Step 2. Fail to meet promise
Step 3. pause(31556926);
Step 4. Tell customers to stop asking when new hardware will arrive and be glad with what they have
Step 5. If $vendor = "palm" goto Step 1, else continue
Step 6. Customers leave for other platforms in flocks
Step 7. Palm unable to regain market share or customer confidence as many are not interested in buying product anymore #(reference: see windows mobile)
Step 8. Uneducated developer to ponder why no one is buying their app in the Palm App Store and why they're losing money?
Step 9. If $developer = "uneducated" goto Step 8 else develop_on_other_platforms();
How much can I pay you and your whiny posts to go away?
Lol, a supposed "software developer" instructing HP on how to market their products. What a laugh.
And if you were truly a Software Developer as I am (actually I'm a Software Engineer), you'd know that developing quality products takes time and you can't just throw more developers at a feature to develop it more quickly.
No, you sound more like a whiny Product Manager who goes to the developers and asks "I want every feature NOW NOW NOW, I don't care if it sucks! I wanted it yesterday! What do you mean getting it to multitask 6 tasks at a time will take a month to do?! So make it multitask 3 at a time instead, that should take 1/2 a month right?! It must be done by the time the iPhone 4 goes to Verizon not how long it will take you to do it! Release it now and fix it later!!"
Step 4.5: wonder where all the quality apps are on WebOS and be thankful for having an Android phone - a platform developers actually care about.
And here is a website alllllllllllllll for you: http://www.androidcentral.com/
I would like to correct this step:
"Step 2. Flush your Pre/Pixi."
That should read:
"Step 2. Send your Pre/Pixi to ChodaBoy"
Man, you are wound up tighter than an eight day clock.
Wow, let's see how that argument would have worked a couple years ago...
"and people like you are uneducated, have no grasp on reality and put all your stock in a dying platform. You haven't the first clue how to sell a product and clearly don't know how to market one. Go ahead and stay with Motorola, if this speculation is true and we'll see where you'll be one to two years out."
or perhaps if we rewind a decade?
"and people like you are uneducated, have no grasp on reality and put all your stock in a dying platform. You haven't the first clue how to sell a product and clearly don't know how to market one. Go ahead and stay with Apple, if this speculation is true and we'll see where you'll be one to two years out."
Interesting. Could you please tell us who's going to win the next Melbourne Cup or Superbowl? Obviously you can forsee the future...
WOW - All i can say is BINGO!!!! I said the same thing in latter response. This is just like when the Pre first came out... They had us waiting and waiting. Pushing back the release date - when will they learn? And the nerve of people in this forum to actually say this is good news WTF!?!?!?!?
dude, hes being straight with you. Would you rather have the man pull up smoke n mirrors and lie to you?
It's not his honesty that's bother people. It's "...don't expect anything soon, please stop asking "when"..." that's bothering people and making "defectors" out of us. I'm not sticking around for another 3 months, let alone 12 months for new hardware. The Pre is old. It needs replaced/updated badly to even keep up with the competition.
No, the point is that if he doesn't have anything to say, he shouldn't be saying anything....
Most people only get a new phone when their contract is up, not every six months. If you want to jump on the Android treadmill and shell out the cash every 6 months, why wait until October? Just leave now and stop complaining.
you rank in the same category as Sood. That's exactly what people will do. Thanks.
Although 2/3 years is the carriers contracts, most people do not wait 2 years. (see: iphone)
Bingo. The VAST MAJORITY of people get a new phone every two years.
What many of you want and what is are completely different things.
The VAST MAJORITY also have phones that are of a decent build and don't require frequent replacements. One of the problems that HP will face is that some of the current Pre owners are very disappointed with the "brand" due to the issues with the Pre. Many of these, though they are waiting for their contract to end, will not be getting another Palm device not matter what comes out.
No all webOS users are long time Palm users. Many are new to smartphones and will simply move on when they can. My family, for example, started out with 4 Palm Pre's. I've moved on because I'm a premier sprint customer. None of the other family members are interested in another Palm device. They are simply waiting for their contract to end so they can dump the device.
Palm has a very tough road ahead, and it will be a challenge to travers no matter how good their next device is. The brand, unfortunately, has been damaged badly over the last couple of years.
You do realize the difference between personal experience and reality? Your family has absolutely no bearing on what will happen.
And basing your argument on small amount of people who already bought Pre's, well, you lose.
I lose? LOL. Have you looked at the market? I have nothing to lose here, Palm does. My personal experience was given as an example only. Look at the market. Also, I don't think Palm can afford to lose too many of the "small amount of people who already bought Pre's".
Finally, what exactly is "reality" other than the combination of many personal experiences?
You're an idiot and a jackass. Nowhere does he say anything about waiting a year. You're blowing some pretty foul bullshit out of your sizable ass.
wow. Name calling with some pretty big words. Reminds me of elementary school.
Say what you will, but when Dieter Bohn posts this:
"In case you were feeling optimistic about imminent new webOS hardware, we'll let Sood's own words bring you down a notch: ... don't expect anything soon, please stop asking "when" --- i'd rather be straight with you. these things take time..."
It's pretty clear that even Dieter took it that way. I'd say looking at the comments here, about 50% of the people took it the same way too. We all know Sood is backpedaling and will post something on his blog tomorrow, but let's be honest here. What Sood said is misleading.
There's no need to be so rude. At least what the poster wrote made some sense and had some valid arguments. Calling someone names just makes people believe that you're wrong and that you don't know what to say but get angry.
As dumb as your fights on here are, I'd say that you're 100% correct. It doesn't make sense to issue free updates(as nice as it is) for the OS if there's no new hardware. No one is going to buy a two year old phone no matter how good the software is or how much this guy promises. Sell some new hardware and make some profit. That's how companies are supposed to work.
I think I'll sell my stock in HP and get some stock in Google...and whatever new phone HTC releases tomorrow.
i agree, if its going to be another year im Epic bound. and with the Galaxy Tab coming with it its a win win. i was waiting for palm to do it (phone and tablet combo) but i dont think i have a choice now but to switch.
Sorry Palm. We'll see you in the funny papers.
rahulsood: RT @Solema: "I have many friends who would happily stay with Palm if HP would just say "we're working on new phones."" // of course we are!
If it takes 12 months I probably cant wait that long...using a 2+ yr old phone is just painful
Gotta agree. Six months or more for hardware seems intolerable. Time for them to show us the roadmap. If we dont know where it ends, people gotta move on and comeback after their next contract/upgrade occurs.
Phil, Rubi, why should peopel stay for the next year? Palm turned their back on their last set of "current customers". Is HP doing the same?
Palm's really starting to lose me and I can see more and more people jumping ship to Android.
I was willing to wait a few more months even though the Evo and Epic look good. My friend switched from the Pre to the Evo and couldn't be happier, but I held off because Android's multitasking and notifications are crappy compared to webOS. I figured it was worth the wait of up to 6 months, but here we are, 3 months later and all we're told is that nothing is coming soon.
Just kinda feel like all palm people that can afford it should jump ship and rejump back in a year or two if HPalm can pull off something good. This seems like a bad situation for HPalm because of the whole inertia thing. Once people switch, they're less likely to switch back especially after a year of being entrenched in to a very capable phone OS.
Meh, they definitely should do things "right", but I'm really thinking they need to talk to Samsung and HTC about releasing some webOS devices.
Talk is Cheap, Mr. Sood. Bring me back in to WebOS.
I think the advent of the overclocking kernels has reduced the need for a new device, not that I wouldn't mind drooling over one. I just fear the next device will be huge or have no keyboard and I will be stuck with the Pre. People seem to think that massive screens are the way forward. If I want a massive screen I have a MBP for that. I want something to read mail on and organise myself with. I dont need a 4" screen for that.
I agree. I hope the next device still has a physical keyboard. And the the Pres screen is just right. I understand that Sprint users are more eager for a new device since they have had their Pres since june of last year. But I just got my Pre this year. Im still loving it.
i dont know what a MBP is but i probably agree. i returned the EVO because it was too big and had no keypad. a 4" screen is nice but completely unnecessary and i can work with smaller. i just want my phone to be able to transfer data i put into it for various apps and such to my desk top.
give me a great phone with a tablet and im happy as can be.
MBP = MacBook Pro
Really? That acronym only makes sense to 10% of the US population that uses computers and only 3% of the world... no wonder the confusion.
I stop using my Pre because it was too darn small and that little 3.1" screen was going to ruin my eyes and also got tired moving text back forth in order to read zoomed text. I found out that I didn't really like a physical keyboard after all.
just remember your world is not the same as everyone else's. People are different and need choices. Palm should create a bigger screen to stay competitive and to satisfy the masses. They should also release hw refresh for the Pre (same size) and maintain the pixi for those who like candy bar styles. You simply can't place everyone in one basket.
but none of this will matter anyway if they keep that PR nightmare on staff making terrible comments and no new hw refreshes in a year. You will likely leave and go to a real supported platform.
This is right on. I had stopped overclocking because of the battery drain, but now I have the Eidio monster battery and am back at 1 gig overclock. To be honest, the phone is running so well right now, I'm in no rush for hardware. Once webOS 2.0 hits, my day 1 Pre will be a super phone to my perception. HP can take it's time to get it right, my Pre and I will be happy to wait with the angry birds.
Thanks for the post! big screen = big battery = big phone = gamers desire
Flood of Apps Hypothesis #1 - There are tons of Palm OS developers out there who are already anxious to develop for webOS.
Flood of Apps Hypothesis #2 - There are tons of web developers out there who will find it easy to develop for webOS.
Flood of Apps Hypothesis #3 - Once we get our App Store up and running for paid apps, more developers will want to develop for webOS.
Flood of Apps Hypothesis #4 - Our new web-based development tool will make it easy to develop for webOS.
Flood of Apps Hypothesis #5 - Our new PDK makes it easy to port apps from other platforms like iOS to webOS.
Flood of Apps Hypothesis #6 - The monetary awards from our Hot Apps contests will make it attractive to develop for webOS.
Flood of Apps Hypothesis #7 - Now that developers know that Palm has the backing of HP they will want to develop for webOS.
Flood of Apps Hypothesis #8 - Once the new hardware is in front of them everyone will want to develop for webOS.
This is looking like 2011 for new hardware. Normally I would say this looks like FUD, but I don't think anyone is concerned with Palm/HP right now.
well dieter its not such a no brainer question,but to answer your question, I think it has to be 1a. Hardware
1b. Apps
1c. Unified marketing and launch.
I think with all the problems of the 1.4.5 update (not all devices sharing the same capabilities) it really hinders any momentum that may be created by new hardware and apps. I know for me, its pretty wack how the android platform and even ios is not smoothly unified amongst all devices available. HPalm has something quite special in that they have an operating system that can be "scaled over multiple platforms".
perfection, in our case, execution does take time. Plus I'm still enjoying meesing around with my Pre. If I get a new device I want it to be complete and solid.
a year from now?
wow....
No, the roadmap is FOR the next 12 months. So within the next year, we're going to see new hardware. Across the board for what they are doing with webOS.
HP has already stated a tablet sometime "early 2011." Rubenstein had said fall for webOS 2.0... seems like they should have a product with that. But they may be questioning releasing in the middle of the holiday season (or Ruby was just blowing smoke trying to push HP).
It won't be a year from now. We'll get something before then. It's just a matter of is it too late.
We're also still waiting on the webOS printer ;)
Early 2011... next 12 months... I bought my Pre in June and a big selling point was that there'd be flash available for it by the end of last summer.
I agree. No where does he say there will be nothing or even no hardware for a year. He says they have a 12 month road map for hardware & if they follow it & execute, people will drool & want the devices & developers will want to be part of it.
On the face of it, this seems disappointing, but that's because we want a phone yesterday! Doesn't Android put out a phone just about every week? Who"s to say, there won't be an HP Palm phone every 3 months in this 12 month road map?
I could easily see webOS2.0 coming out before the end of the year, tablet in January, followed soon thereafter by a new phone. I think this could be followed by different hardware/tweaks shortly after that--from portrait keyboard, to landscape keyboard to only virtual keyboard.
I want a new device yesterday as well, but the BIGGEST complaint of the Pre was the hardware (I still have an original Pre, w/o problems). No doubt about it. This cannot be denied. I think HP should & needs to get it right. If it takes 12 months to get the 1st new hardware to market, I would be very, very surprised.
Rahul didn't define "soon."
We are the ones defining soon because we wanted a phone yesterday. We have a right to want something soon. We have seen another iPhone & numerous Android devices come out while we have gotten nothing other than rumors (& a peek at webOS 2.0).
I simply think we are reading too much (as we have for the past month or so) in to what Rahul is saying. We are defining "soon" which is everyone's right if they want to leave the platform, but most are reading in to what he is saying that there will be NOTHING available for 12 months. All I am saying is that is NOT what he said, but our preconceptions based on all the rumors has conditioned us to expect an imminent announcement. Just look at the threads under Future Palm devices.
Has anyone thought that Palm had a device near ready, but HP thought the hardware was trash & didn't want there name on it as is & decided to redo the hardware from the ground up? Has anyone thought Palm had great ideas on the drawing board, but due to their precarious financial situation decided to spend their resources securing their future by finding a new home (HP) so those plans could some day come to fruition?
In any event, it is up to each of us to decide if we will wait or move on. Same as it was yesterday.
Oy veh! Get the dang thing out already! I've been throwing my Pre around like frisbee on the assumption that my new phone will be delivered by Santa himself and I'll have a shiny unscratched bigger screen with fast as uberkernel processing before New Year's Eve 2010! What, now I gotta put that protective film back on?!
I appreciate a "straight" answer for sure! Better than milking it without any real news to announce.
HOWEVER, this honesty makes me want to go do what I've thought of but haven't done as I was sure we'd have a new device by October (if not sooner). THAT IS TO SAY, GET AN EVO 4G... for 6 or 7 months, since it appears that this is about the time frame we are looking at.
QUESTION: If I got an EVO 4g for 6 months what would happen to my Palm Profile??? If I lost my purchased apps, which is up in the 200+ range, that alone could make me dump the EVO 4g for a few months scenario.
Any thoughts?
Reply to my own post: One more thought... If Sprint came out with a Pre Plus I'd stick it out for 6-12 months. How likely is Sprint to get a Pre Plus given the "no time soon" scenario?
I asked this question in the forums a while back and HardBeatZ said there are no plans for deleting profiles. So, presumably, leave for a year, come back and get great new Palm hardware and sign into your profile and you will get all your apps back, etc.
Some friends of mine that have Android phones were discussing how poor the build quality was on the EVO. Apparently, it doesn't take much for the case to start to fall apart and Sprint has been telling people to GAGF when they bring them back for replacement. It sounds like it was rushed to market more than the original Pre was.
Your experience may be different, but that's what these guys were talking about.
I'd say your friends are in the minority since on Sprint about 96% of EVO owners would recommend the device versus only about 66% of Pre owners would recommend the Pre.
Uh huh. Somebody's listening to too much Bon Jovi.
.
Dear Rahul,
I get the message. If I am up for an upgrade and I want new hardware, go play with Android for a year. Then come back and check out the brand new hardware from HPalm.
Thanks for setting us straight and not leading us along any longer. It is better to nip the rumors in the bud rather than having everyone continually asking, or thinking new hardware is just around the corner.
Thanks,
A current and hopefully future Palm webOS user.
+1
+1, I guess early EVO switchers may have been right when they said they'd be back in a year when a new device came out. I was willing to bet that their would be a new device with 2.0 before the end of the year, but now I wouldn't bet a dime.
+ another 1 :(
+ another
+ 1
+1, but wouldn't it suck if new hardware was around the corner, like right around the corner after you upgraded? But I'm on to the Evo!
Generally speaking people are hooked on the latest and greatest hardware these days. I agree with Rahul-- once the hardware is there, software becomes more enticing. The apps complement and exploit the hardware.
I love my Pre, I love WebOS, but how much farther can you push apps when you've got better hardware? Awesome hardware will make new apps far more relevant. Otherwise people would rather just buy the latest iPhone or Android-- there are enough apps on those platforms to satisfy them.
This is bad.. with VZW giving the Pre Plus the EOL treatment, the only carrier in the US that will be selling the "flagship" Palm device is AT&T where it's up against the iPhone4, BB Torch and various up-to-date Android hardware. By the time the new Palm hardware is hitting the market we'll have already seen the launches of Blackberry 6 devices and the huge marketing push for Windows Phone 7 (not to mention the juggernaut iPhone4 that's already in motion). HP is going to have to do a major re-launch for Palm and webOS since the only people who will even know what it is at that point will be what's left of this community.
As much as I don't care for Apple, they know the fickle consumers very well and make sure they have new stuff every single year to keep their existing user base and attract new ones.
Amazingly enough...I don't agree. There was either a half-hearted or outright crappy product in the pipeline that would have done Palm/HP no favors if they released according to Palm's existing roadmap. We should be thankful they didn't make it.
Get WebOS 2.0 into shape, setup the new hardware for a major relaunch with COORDINATED marketing between HP and the carriers (a la Droid), and you're giving this OS the best chance it will ever have. HP can't really beat anyone to market, so they're going to have to leapfrog the competition. I wish them the best, but will keep my Pre as a spare once Sprint's WP7 device drops next month.
I completely agree. They're going to have a rough time competing with all these new phone formats, especially after they steal away all of the Christmas sales, as well as the Palm Pre buyers who are buying a new phone and are, obviously, not going to rebuy a two year old phone. Maybe Windows Phone 7 isn't so DOA...
Will somebody convert a Pre Plus to a Sprint phone and then email me? I'll buy it!!! I'm serious!!! Contact me as "mjrei" on the forums. I can't deal with the 8gb storage and half the ram... now that we know there's more of a wait ahead of us.
Thanks! Pre Plus on Sprint Please!
Ok not to be pessimistic. And not to call out these people who writes in responds to Precentral forums, but obviously you all have no clue or just like to tweet about the Pre Smartphone
This is such a mistake. You can't keep talking about future devices, saying trust us wink wink they will be so awesome. I want upgraded hardware in my new WebOS 2.0 phone and that I will line up to buy. A WebOS tablet and printer all all fine and dandy AFTER you give us a new phone first. Otherwise I just don't care about those things. If they keep ignoring new phone hardware people will leave to other platforms and never come back. Yes another 12 months is ignoring your userbase when the Pre hardware is already 2 yrs old and new android comes out every 6 months and iphone every year. If someone leaves and gets a new contract, and buys apps for a different platform, they will not return to WebOS. Palm is shooting themselves in the foot.
Well said!
(And trust me, I'd like NOT to agree on this one--but I agree.)
agreed on all parts. I hate to say it but this is bullshit.
I guess another way to look at this statement is "All the top Palm engineers left. We now have to bring HP engineers up-to-speed on how to design and build a smartphone. It takes time."
We know lots of top level folks left Palm, we have no idea how many of the "in the trenches" troops left.
lol - well said though...
If you create a piece of hardware on paper, and don't execute it with in, lets say 6 months, wouldn't it be 'outdated' by the time it got released? The way mobile displays, processors, memory size, & speed is moving along right now, a 'soon' release might be detrimental to their 'Roadmap'.
I still want my toaster dangit!
You know the beautiful thing: June 29, 2009, is the two- year anniversary of the first shipment of the iPhone. Not one of those people will still be using an iPhone a month later. - McNamee 2009
everyone will want in once the presentation of hardware is in front of them. even the defectors will want to own a webOS device. - Sood 2010
Sigh - The Market 2010
they don't have a lot of time. the competition is advancing to quickly. new devices need to be release ideally by christmas or at the very latest by early 2011. so let me ask you again sir, when is the new hardware coming?
I agree. His comments just sealed the deal with me. I'm going Evo in October baby.
what a dick head that sood you know what sprint better be getting me a pre + or epic 4G with a beautiful super amoled screen is gonna take over slow palm pre
This is disheartening. Although I won't be eligible for an upgrade for a while, I'd like to see my platform of choice succeed. 2.0 sounds like it'll put HPalm on the road to success, but the Pre will probably break down before it gets to its destination. WebOS needs a new shiny vehicle to get it back on the highway and (re)gain mindshare.
Guess I'll tell the girlfriend to get an Epic or Evo since there won't be anything available soon. I can hope there's something new out in time for my upgrade, and that 2.0 will keep the community happy until then.
Dear HP/Palm,
Sorry about asking when you'll release new hardware. I guess I was just hoping to buy something from you.
Regards,
Me
Love it.
wow people are really freaking out!! Jon rubenstien said they are working on a variety of form factors. hello did everybody forget that meaning. landscape horizontal and large display slabs. Tablet is coming in CES. Netbooks are also in the mix. Webos 2.0 is supposed to be released by the end of fall as ben and dion have stated numerous times unless plans have changed. So i expect to see a pre 2 by December if not then definitely ces along with tablets and other form factors simultaneously in order to make a big splash among all carriers. YES, it will take the next 12 months to deliver a variety of webos smartphones. This does not mean the pre 2. Besides i would rather wait for the next generation hard ware since we are on the verge to having access to them. If hardware is released now it will just be outdated in a month.
You are correct. my guess is they will follow suit as they have in the past. make an announcement at CES then take till june to deliver product. they may or may not live up to having a tablet delivered by 1q 11 (by the end of march) but we dont know what type of tablet, it may just be a POS to get it out there with "bigger and better to come". but what ever they announce at CES will take 6 months to bring to market. so we're in september, 4 months till CES plus 6 months for delivery = 10 months away. if something was to happen by year end, at this point they would announce 4q10 not "not anytime soon"
Idk what kind of crack HP/Palm must be smoking to think that their going to release 2.0 on old ass hardware.. I got my pitch fork ready grrrrrrr. lol
HP/PALM to whom it my concern, At work i was a fan boy of webos ... I was pulled into smart phone fights and wars at my job ,now i'm getting picked on by bigger, faster,front facing powers and all sorts of tech.. We need help in these ground battle ,in means to convince the consumer that we are the truth.....PALLM!!!!!lol
Most people who have defected would love to come back for webOS. There are really two camps: the ones who can't handle hardware that doesn't wow them, and those who consider the OS worth more to them than the hardware (and honestly, I see no reason to switch, buy a bunch of apps that would be worthless if I were to switch back). As for those who think HP is "smoking crack" when they talk about new hardware...why wouldn't they make new hardware? That's what HP is all about. It's a hardware company that licenses or owns the proprietary OSs they distribute with that hardware. We know they're making new hardware, the main reason devs haven't come back in full force is because they have to find a way to make a living at it. There's massive potential to make money via subscription to cloud based services, so it'll be there if/once devs figure that out (instead of charging pocket change for a download).
"Even the defectors?" Huh?
As a defector, I have to say point-blank that my defection was reluctant at best -- yes, I bought an EVO... after seeing that there would be no new WebOS phone available for Sprint and getting frustrated with the limitations of the 1st gen Pre I had. Yes, I'm pretty happy with my EVO overall, but let me tell you what I miss: closing applications, the card metaphor, the notification system, swiping to delete emails... basically I miss using WebOS. If I could have WebOS on my EVO with one or two extras (support for .ogg and widgets, mostly, but a few other things here and there) I'd be ecstatic. Heck, I still have my Pre sitting on my desk, which I still use... just not as a phone (you can, if you're curious, still update a "deactivated" phone to new versions of WebOS. Over wireless.)
Honestly, I think most "defectors" are waiting for an excuse to come back. Though they'll probably wait at least a year to qualify for an upgrade...
"don't expect anything soon?" guess you won't to retain a lot of customers soon either.
HP you need WebOS upgrades, Hardware Upgrades and Developer support and you need it now. Not just one you need all.
"developers WILL want it?" why the hell can't you get them to want it NOW?
"Smartphones are just another connected device to us. For example, building a smartphone or a phone of any type is not a particularly complicated engineering feat" - Mark Hurd
"... don't expect anything soon, please stop asking "when" --- i'd rather be straight with you. these things take time..." - Rahul Sood
heheheh... classic! :)
LOL, that's great.
Stay tooned for the P.R. backtracking.
I can't understand why these people don't understand time is of the essence! still waitng on that flash player? yeah I know you are.hardware upgrade maybe top of the line as of 9.10.2010 but if u don't get it until 2012 then guess what..you have wasted as much money waiting around as you would have trying something new! It's like sticking with 8bit nintendo cuz they have a new game! It may be cool, but its obsolete because it was incepted with too little too late. It's like the monkeys vs. The beatles... smdh
There are really two camps: the ones who can't handle hardware that doesn't wow them, and those who consider the OS worth more to them than the hardware (and honestly, I see no reason to switch, buy a bunch of apps that would be worthless if I were to switch back).
Actually, I'd say the bigger camp are those who simply want a phone that works and fits their needs. Most consumers don't really care about the OS.
Man, you guys are FREAKING OUT.
Rahul's 'roadmap' tweet said "over the next 12 months". Also, he puts quotes on "soon" in another tweet.
I took all of that to mean that they aren't ready yet, but they'l be ready in a few months or so. People have been predicting Sept/Oct release dates for a new phone. He was saying those ppl are wrong.
Over the next 12 months, HP should bring to market a new LINE of products, beginning in the near-future. AFTER 12 months have passed, the webOS landscape should look totally different. That doesn't mean that nothing is happening for 12 months.
No, I don't know anything more than you guys. But if Palm couldn't produce anything new for 14+ months, HP would not have bought them!
lol... what garbage!
in other words:
"the new hardware will be the most awesomest thing in the history of history. wait... wut? when is it coming out you ask? i dunno, but who cares?!? it'll be rad! quit asking for the release date! while you wait, check out this brand-spankin' new 3d game and after that check out this other 3d game and after that check out this other 3d..."
sood... seriously? lol. lame.
I feel your pain. I am beginning to feel like the 'bringer of doom'.
-HD-DVD: Microsoft is on board and the porn industry is behind it (no pun intended)! How can I go wrong! FAIL
-Blackberry Storm1: Hey BB is finally cool! It is going to blow the Iphone away! Click touch screen so much better than a regular screen. FAIL
-Palm Pre+: This phone has the best operating system in the phone world!!!! Better than the Iphone! FAIL?????
I have until Nov 26th until my contract it up. If Palm doesn't have new hardware or at least a preview and date I'm off to the crappy Android platform.
I appreciate and respect Mr Sood, but I can only hope 'soon' means before Thanksgiving...
He said "Not soon" people!
Not any time soon.
How this has morphed to "soon", I do not know.
This is the opposite of what Apple did in the alleged loss of their iPhone 4 prototype. That got people to hold off buying competitor's phones. This guy just got a lot of people to give up waiting for a new Palm to go ahead and jump ship.
I had both an Amiga and SuperBeta, and I'm not really in the mood to relive those two debacles. Superior technology in many regards but doomed to death in the market because of poor marketing, timing, and no real moves to address remaining shortcomings after the initial big splash.
Sad.
I share the same sentiment as @ubersoft...I miss closing apps & simply swiping but Ill have grandkids before the pre is anywhere near its operating potential...I don't rent 4 year old movies...why, u may ask? Because they come on tv! If u knew better......you'd do better!
I don't really want to get involved with the whining about "investing in a dying platform." If I wanted some religious attachment, I'd go to Apple or join Scientology. I'll keep my Pre until something comes out that I like better. If the Pre is Palm's last phone? Too bad. I survived Amiga's collapse too.
What I wonder though is how long the warranty on a Sprint Pre is? It'd be nice if my pre survived until there's a new webos device. The hardware track-record of my Pre is not exactly splendid.
I survived the collapse of the Amiga, too. By switching to WinTel. Lucky for HP/Palm, there's no other viable smartphone platforms available, so the market will just have to wait until Palm gets around to releasing new hardware, I dunno, maybe by Easter.
the warranty is 1 year.
I didn't see him mention a new smartphone in his post. He said 'devices'. With Symbian, Android. Blackberry and iOS, will they even bother trying to penetrate the market? WebOS is so far behind at this point will H/Palm want to try and push into this crowded field? Even Windows 7 is too late to the party at this point.
I'm guessing they will forego smartphones completely and
focus on tablets, printers, etc. I really hope I'm wrong
I think that loyalty for mobile platforms is a myth. Proven by the number of people who have left Palm and WebOS. If Palm releases a new product that is crazy nice, people will flock no matter if they were previously Palm users or not.
Personally, I'm waiting for either Android to become something I think is finally something better than WebOS OR for WebOS 2.0 with a new device. I will always flock to the greatest device no matter who makes it (except Apple).
I won't flock to it but I will look at it and decide when I'm due for a upgrade in June but by that Time Android 3.0 and Evo 2 should be out which will make it a tough choice.
when keepin' it sood goes wrong.
dude deserves the responses here.
Sad to hear that there will be no new hardware anytime soon. As lot people i guess this will be thime to try one of the new android devices and then come back once my new premier account with sprints allows me to upgrade agian in a year.
I though that the aquisition of Pal by HP would have a device out quicker in the market.
Now lets just hope that Android doesnt become a great OS in that timeframe.
Really, people set themselves up for disappointment by assuming WebOS is better than it really is and that HP's handing Palm a blank check.
Can someone explain how they will overcomethe marketing muscle of Apple, Android, and possibly Windows Phone 7 that will have further time in the marketplace? And if iPhone or variant comes to Verizon, how will they compete against that persona?
I don't see it, but then again, I don't run multi-billion dollar tech enterprises.
Can someone explain how they will overcomethe marketing muscle of Apple, Android, and possibly Windows Phone 7 that will have further time in the marketplace? And if iPhone or variant comes to Verizon, how will they compete against that persona?
I don't see it, but then again, I don't run multi-billion dollar tech enterprises.
Neither does Sood. As I recall, his company got bought out by HP too.
Magic.
there's that word again: "defectors"
Is webOS is a freaking cult that you have to 'defect' from if you like something else? and we've heard all this phony new-hardware-will-beat-everything rhetoric before.
Mr Sood, this is bull. The Evo came out back in June, and as a "preferred" customer on Sprint, I was given the option to pre-order one as early as May. Though my Pre was on its last leg, I decided to wait it out until the HP buy out was complete. Every time a new phone comes out, I keep staying faithful, knowing that as soon as I buy one, you'll announce a new phone. Well, at least now I know that if I just bought a better phone in the first place, I'd be getting that same phone call when the new Palm hardware was released.
Of course, this doesn't mean that I'm going to buy a new phone yet. I'll wait and see what 2.0 does (even though that won't be out until December, most likely) and then probably get the Windows Phone 7. At least they've given us an honest time line.
I still don't understand why they can't just put in a newer generation version of the current Pre's processor in there that runs at 1GHz. All it needs is a faster processor and a battery with better life. Just a product refresh, so there is something to keep WebOS relevant for now until HP/Palm can launch a cutting edge device.
I think many of us would be happy enough for now with a WebOS device that runs off the shelf at 1GHz, has 512MB of ram, and gets better battery life.