HP TouchPad selling poorly at Best Buy, retailers in general? | webOS Nation
 
 

HP TouchPad selling poorly at Best Buy, retailers in general? 306

by Derek Kessler Tue, 16 Aug 2011 10:31 pm EDT

There’s an unsettling truth in the HP TouchPad price drop that we have to face: HP wouldn’t have dropped the price if the tablet was selling well as it was priced. A new report by Arik Hesseldahl of AllThingsD laid bare what we have long (for six weeks) suspected: the TouchPad isn’t selling as well as HP or any of their retail partners would have liked.

Staples saw a lot of success with their TouchPad $200-off sale, but it’s likely they only had a few in stock to begin with. A better barometer might be Best Buy, who has been selling the TouchPad at full price since launch. According to Hesseldahl’s report, Best Buy was sent 270,000 TouchPads by HP, and they’ve only managed to sell 25,000 of them (a number that another source said might be “charitable”). Does that seem like an unreasonable number? Recall the Woot sale of the TouchPad: they sold 612 at $120 off. Woot usually pushes thousands of any one item, HP computers included.

Best Buy is reportedly so livid about the sales of the TouchPad that they’re refusing to pay for all of them, instead insisting that HP take them back. A high-level HP executive is supposedly going to be meeting in person with these angered Best Buy executives to smooth things over, but when you’ve got masses of unsold inventory on hand, we can’t imagine that will be a very friendly chat.

HP reports their quarterly earnings tomorrow, and if these numbers are true, we expect that they will remain mum on the exact number of TouchPads actually sold. As AllThingsD posited, we expect that if HP’s actually going to give out any numbers for TouchPad sales, it’ll be “channel sales” or “shipped,” numbers that both don’t actually translate to customer sales. Just ask any Palm employee about what happens when you have hundreds of thousands (or millions) of units in excess inventory sitting around.

Though, if you go into any Best Buy, chances are you’ll get an example as to why things aren’t going well for the TouchPad: sales rep training for webOS is still in not good shape. You might even go so far as to call it miserable shape. We’ve heard plenty of reports from readers that have visited their local Best Buy only to have a sales rep try to talk them out of buying a TouchPad, because they really had no clue how the thing worked. And then there’s the problem with the TouchPads in stores running a special demo version of webOS that is both full of memory holes leading to serious lag and Too Many Cards errors, as well as unable to be updated to the much more pleasing experience that is webOS 3.0.2.

So if you’re HP and sales really are as miserable as this report suggests, what are you to do? Get the training system in order so the sales reps actually know how to sell the device. It’s one thing to not have training on a specific HP laptop for a month or two – the specs speak for themselves and everybody knows Windows. It’s another for your flagship product running a new OS most sales reps, let along most customers, aren’t all that familiar with, to not have extensive pre-launch training.

HP, there’s a small part of us that wants you to announce a blockbuster sales number for the TouchPad, but we don’t expect it to happen. And that’s okay, you can’t change the past. What you can change is the future and the now. It’s time to get sales rep training in order and kick up the advertising to the same level of Apple and Samsung. There’s still time to succeed, but the clock is ticking.

Source: AllThingsD

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306 Comments

WOW, I know I shouldn't, but I can't stop laughing at the pic you used for this post. I can't believe the TouchPad is doing this bad.

Earnings report can only mention shipped units as it didn't start selling (or not selling) until after the quarter ended.

Boy some charter members of the WebOS Society acting as product champions would have been helpful. But sadly, those WebOS fans were ill-equipped to make a satisfactory endorsement, so the effort was abandoned.

The market is making things right.

Are you kidding? With how angry and bitter the WebOS Society members are, customers would have either been called Apple fanboys and scared off at best or they'd press charges for assault at worst.

:)))))

Everyone can come up with all the excuses to try and save HP and WebOS, but the fact is, no amount of marketing will make this product big, nor will Leo's poor attitude of being a big company and commenting that they'll "win in the end"... just because...

They failed the first time to deliver. WebOS fans that were upset were labeled as iphone fanboys when they expressed their discouragement and predicted webos would fail. Years later Palm failed again to deliver and once again history repeated itself with HP. Today, they have not changed, repeating history yet again and people are still hanging on by a thread hoping things will change for no apparent reason.

It amazes me how many people are willing to bet time and again on a product that keeps under-performing. At what point will you realize it's not going to happen for these guys?

The ONLY way webos can take off, is if HP stops thinking about themselves and listens to the community. They must build a device that's faster, more capable and more feature rich than anything on the market. (NOTE: This does not mean announce a product 6 months ahead with great specs but hold the release date until the product becomes average with competitors on the market)

They also need to have a big marketing bash with this NEW product. Not a Pre3, or Pre4 or whatever same build that Palm had. They need a NEW face. Something retro and different. (Remember, if you want different results, you have to do something different.) It's not to say they should kill the Pre line, since many webos users still like the design, but they need to create something new, revolutionary and exciting for customers. Just making things faster doesn't do it, especially when you're lacking components that everyone else has. (btw touch to share is just not that big of a deal, especially when there are apps that you can share info between devices now)

Until then, webos is gone. Sorry for the harsh words. You can vote me down all you like, but I'm being brutally honest... and this is coming from an old palm user.

The problem with that is having to hold out hope for yet ANOTHER relaunch just puts WebOS even further and further behind.

I think it's dead. Think Beyond was their last chance at gaining traction and they failed too spectacularly to recover at this point.

Interesting that the article mentioned the TP not selling well at other major outlets as well besides Best Buy yet a great many of the posts bellow are blaming Best Buy.

It looks like 2011's Best Buy has taken the place of 2010's Verizon.

Your assessment hurts, but its the truth. I had one of the first Pre's and have since moved to Android and for a short time iOS. What I've always liked about WebOS is its the best of both worlds. You have the elegance of iOS and the openness of Android. It really is a shame most people just flocked to what they knew and what they heard of. But Palm/HP didn't help themselves either. Its obvious no one likes glossy surfaces, but what do you get? A fingerprint prone tablet. late releases, etc, etc.

Essentially, most people have chosen a platform and it will be difficult to get those people to reconsider a new platform which will cause people to have to repurchase peripherals and apps all over again, making a switch a harder sell. And new smartphone customers are simply going to get what the majority of their friends are using, iOS or Android. WebOS needs to rethink this and come back with a release that matches or exceeds current specs and probably a new direction in form factor. I may still get a TP to support WebOS, but without a significant change, I don't see them surviving.

Once you ask the customer how your product should be build you admit you don't have a clue how it should be done. That's not how the business works.

Apple never asked the customer (in fact they often did the opposite of what people said would be right) and you see their success.

I thought market research involved asking the customer among other things. If you think "Apple never asked the customer", you don't know Apple (or any very successful company). Contrary to what many here seem to believe, a compony does not have that high level of consumer satisfaction without paying attention to input from those consumers.

I totally agree... They need to deliver 3 or 4 new phones by the end of the year: a pre 2+, a veer 2, a pre 3+, a pixi 2 and a low and high end slab phones.

They also need to start marketing seriously, showing off webOS like it should. I live in Spain and I still haven´t seen a single webOS ad on TV, ever. Maybe we are not that big of a deal regarding market share, but why sale phones here in the first place if you are not going to advertise?. Today I´ve seen a playbook ad, stating it´s the only tablet capable of true multitasking. I mean, come on!!

They need to speed thing up a whole lot more.

And they need apps. Not apps like angry birds, they mainly need to get those apps people are using everyday and would never move to a brand that didn´t have that app. For instance, here in Spain everybody is using whatsapp. I have friends moving from iOS to Android. They like webOS, and would jump to a Pre 2 or 3, but they´re just to used to have whatsapp and they would never give that up. Or skype. Or viber. I have a pre 2 and still don´t have skype. How long it´s been since iOS has had skype?

It´s a shame what´s happening to webOS, it deserved much better. Don´t know if they´ll finally make it, but it´s not looking good.

If HP would release one or two phones per year, that would be fine. The approach of having a high-end Pre and a low end Pixi is sound. But only if those phones are best of breed when they come out, not also rans.
The worst decision Palm ever made was restricting the Pre to Sprint in the US first. This still hurts them.

The much bigger problem though is on the software side. The included apps have barely improved during the last two years. E.g. Google Maps is joke compared to the Android version.
There is no working QR-Code and Barcode Scanner app, no augmented reality app like Layar, no Shazam, no Office file editing (Documents To Go or QuickOffice), Skype, KakaoTalk or WhatsApp, Flashplayer 10.3, new games…
Performance of app launching is also really slow. Android improved drastically in this regard. The Dalvik VM is improved all the time. Meanwhile HP/Palm wasn't really at the forefront of developing the best JavaScript engine possible. Even though WebOS relies on it so much.

WebOS devices now do not only have to be better than Android on the software side. They have to be a lot cheaper than Apple hardware too.

i'm almost sure HP's quarter runs May 1 thru July 31, very much covering touchpad launch. Their 2011 fiscal year runs Nov 1 2010 to Oct 31 2011.

I would tend to agree with this.

I work in a corporate environment and had bought a launch day Pre from Sprint. I got asked questions about my phone countless times. I would often demo it and show the the goods. A lot of people were impressed....for a while. Until I still had the same WebOS phone for two+ years. I was steadfast that when HP bought WebOS things would change! With those deep pockets of HP, we're going to see products come flying out of those manufactures doors...but alas...it didn't happen. Third party developing began to slump and I could no longer push this device on people since I had no more tricks up my sleeves. I felt stoodup and abandoned.

Then the "Think Beyond" event happened!! OMG YOU GUYS!! DADDY'S GOT NEW PRODUCTS!!..... but my excitement was ripped from me like my favorite toy being stolen by the class bully in day care. All of this done by four little (literally) letters....V-E-E-R. Ummm excuse me? *Knock Knock* Hello?? Are you in there HP?! Are you even listening to us? I have been loyal...nay Patriotic to you, and this is what you deliver? No I see it.. Yeah the Pre3 over there...but there has been 2 of those already. We wanted something new and exciting. Something that would show the market and the competetion that HP is here to stay!! Yet your "new" product is this baby phone?! I mean... I can't even hold it! Your WebOS soldiers have gone to war for you numerous times on the wings of the idea that HP listens to us! The squeeky wheel gets the grease right? Well we're the only ones that are squeeking. I honestly don't recall reading or hearing any fellow WebOS brother or sister mention.."You know... The Pre and Pixi are great...but I would like something SUPER small. You know.. like the size of a credit card!? OMG if HP did that, they wouldn't be able keep that phone in stock!". Perhaps I missed a thread? What happened to market research? I recall hearing a quote from good ole' Ruby saying "I have never once used an Apple product.". What?! Why not? You NEED to know your competetion's products, and it's not just an product, it's the current market leader's products! That's just being blatently and publicly stupid. So in other words..maybe I shouldn't be all the surprised that HP release this worthless product. Just like HP shouldn't be surprised that it tanked.

I personally think that their product roadmap cost them the race. Which completely sucks! WebOS is still today my favorite mobile OS hands down. Sadly a couple months ago I defected. I recently moved to Android-adise. A land where the apps flow like beer and the hardware flocks like the birds of capistrano. But I'm not here to promote my new found love. For those of you that still fly your HP/WebOS flag, more power to ya!! Keep the faith and fight the good fight, but to HP I've only this to say...

HP, you're too little (again literally), too late.

After the "stop the world/Think Beyond" then a six month wait, then a flat launch and the basics of the O/S are still a work in progress. Just like the legacy devices.

I am a former WebOS fan (iOS convert) that keeps checking back here in hopes of HP actually doing something smart with WebOS.

I agree with you, except about the Veer. The problem with the Veer was not the design, it was that it was ONLY for AT&T; and it wasnt really even promoted there! I actually went to an AT&T store a month after the Veer was released and the guy didnt even know the NAME of it, much less how to use it! He said "oh the tiny phone" and pulled a DUMMY PHONE OUT OF A DRAWER (the Veer wasnt even on display!)... Seems like the same situation with the TP at BestBuy. (Except at least the touchpad is available from other stores!)

I was on Sprint and really wanted a Veer, but there was NO WAY I was going to AT&T. So I switched to Verizon for a Pre2 but returned it for an iPhone after I realized it was really nothing different from the phone I had bought 2 years ago.

And then you know what I did? After switching to iOS, I bought an iPad. Why? Because it was a familiar ACCESSORY to my iPhone. Tablets are an accessory. Smartphones are pretty much a requirement these days to techies.

So, HP; wanna get sales up? #1 GET WEBOS PHONES INTO THE MARKET - ALL CARRIERS! #2 Actually give a **** about the few existing loyal webOS fans and SUPPORT them. #3 Get the apps! #4 THEN worry about the tablet PCs.

The sales will be here in the coming months

OuchPad!

that's but another great nickname for a great product :) Respect :)

$150 Touchpad's for everyone!!!!!

But hey, those $500 early adapters are way cooler and smarted then us trolls!

Saw a comment that originally HP said they were expecting to ship out 300k per quarter and that it would be strange for Best Buy to get so many of them. But can find the link where HP mentioned its projections per quarter, if anyone finds it and posts it, thanks.

it's all ruby's fault.

Interestingly enough, most of the Best Buy Canada stores were sold out... Could it have been due to a lack of shipment?

this is pure **** Several members worked the math in a forum thread to show that this isn't credible. Also interesting that the ran this **** story the day before earnings announce,ent. They are either trying to force HP to publish sales figures, or they are selling HP stock short and don't want to lose money.

nothing but a drive by hack job.

Pardon my french, but Kara always did seem sort of a b***h to Rubinstein. Honestly wouldn't put it past her.

She seems like one always! I'd wish she had a "closet" job where nobody needed to see her.

I asked the dept manager at our local Best Buy. He said that all the Level A stores have had to go through webOS training to the point where they feel over-trained.

He said that their GM told them not to match the $299 Staples coupon the first weekend of August but he said that they had more interest from that coupon than anything else.

At $299, he said the TouchPad would sell but at $399 they can get the Acer Iconia and Asus Transfomer.

That sort of debunks the sad advice given at the end. More training?

Nope. It's the price. Needs to be 299. Give those low wage earning BB employees something to work with. I don't care what kind of training you want to give, but you can't expect miracles here.

The PC adage was alway:

Double the power at half the cost of Apple.

How did HP miss this? How did they think they were immune?

...because they are corporate suit idiots?

Either that mgr was full of it or the info never got to the sales reps. I have yet to meet one that has a clue how as to what makes WebOS great. Most dont even know how to work it.

The local store here had a "webOS" dude sporting a Veer and his own Touchpad that he offered for me to play with when I was interested. He did seem like he was trying to keep me from touching the unit with the demo software on it...now it makes sense.

dont have facts so we can only look at what best buy can offer us laymen at this link:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/iPad-Tablets/Tablets/pcmcat209000050008.c?id...

According to their list the TP is outselling the Xoom, the Galaxy tab and the Transformer. Would seem strange to single out only HP on this.

This is not the case at all in Amazon. Its a huge difference as in Amazon the Android tablets rule the day.

So BestBuy is iPad friendly and Amazon is Android friendly. HP is third any way you look at it, but I wouldnt think theyre doing this type of numbers bad. Doesnt seem logical.

But the points in the article about sales reps not helping are spot on, id say either HP goes with other suppliers and lose the BestBuy business or pay for better treatment. The current way is damaging.

The TP had the price of Ipad, the hardware limits of Ipad, and pretty much none of the app suppport of Ipad. If you want to spend money, buy an Ipad. If you want more capability, lots of apps and still spend less, buy a droid tablet. That leaves Touchpad with no identity, no place in the market.

i just looked at amazon and the touchpad was 16th in sales. http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics/1232597011/ref=zg_tr_tab

You may be confusing "most popular" which is review based and can be messed with and "best selling" which is sales based. is in the top 10 there are 5 different ipad models, two galaxy tabs and only one touchpad version. And it wasn't first. That said these according to apple are updated hourly.

you must not have read my post correctly. The story is about Bestbuy, i mentioned Amazon saying their list is very different from Amazon. Link im using for best selling tablets from Amazon is

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=amb_link_353078942_1?ie=UTF8&node=1232597011...

sorted by best sellers, at the time of this writing only 1 iPad on top 10 which is in stark contrast with the BestBuy list.

Interesting that the 32GB is about the same place in sales before and after the price cut in Amazon, yet reached #4 during the sale event. Initial price doesnt seem to be a variable that affected its relative placement in Amazon. And remember this are relative placements, of course it could mean all are sliding. It might have slid more if not for price drop but,it sold relatively the same at launch month than now. And the deal seekers gobbled it up when seeing it as a deal.

On the other hand where you have a big argument is with the 16gb version which was outside of the top 20 and with the new price drop is around the ten mark(over and under depending hour).

HP loves you!!! Keep drinking the kool aid

must have misread your post. sorry.

that said HP still isn't doing well, There are lots android tablets and lots of ipads in the top 20.

my question is why would HP be so scared to announce sales if they were are. If they are good then we'll hear about it.

Yes, this stinks of market rumor considering there is no official comment from either party here.

Number crunching in the forums? So people who have no idea about sales can figure how many sales HP has actually made? Based on what?

It's time for us to face the facts, WebOS is DOA. The best OS is not selling. Who's fault? HP and Palm for HORRIBLE business plans.

I just hope Apple can acquire the pattens and continue to be the only thing standing between us and a GOOGLE take over of America and Freedom in general.

LOL @ Apple as the beacon of "Freedom in general".

I did not say that. Apple blows too, but they are not in bed with the NSA and involved in toppling governments like Google. So take your pick, I'll go with apple...

Glenn, I just think it's funny to have Apple and Freedom in the same sentence. It wasn't a knock against you.

So what did you say then?

"...Apple...continue to be the only thing standing between...Google take over of America and Freedom in general"

I processed that sentence and concluded that you equate Apple with freedom fighter. Or is it more of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" type thing?

If Best Buy had the $100 coupon instead of Staples, I would've bought it there. Sorry Best Buy, but you didn't price as aggressively as your competitor.

Oh now it's best buy's fault the touchpad did not sell, you guys are in some serious denial

Everyone's fault but HP and palm. First it was sprints fault, then verizon, then att, now Best Buy.

If not for these companies who have no Idea how to sell tech products WebOS would be #1 Plus double check mark!

It's Best Buy's fault they didn't sell to me at least.

All the reports were that the Touchpad was sold out in Staples, but no one cared about Best Buy. Honestly, would you pay $400 at BB or $300 at Staples? Lets at least be realistic here.

I for one am holding off on buying a touchpad until I have a shiny new Pre3 in my hand. The touchpad would be nice to have, a new phone is essential at this point.

hear, hear. Someone at HP wrongly copy/pasted the numbers of tablets sold versus numbers of smartphones sold, and that is how the slogan "in the world of tablets, who needs a bigger phone?" was born.

It is neither "world of tablets", and everyone needs a bigger smartphone than Veer.

It should say "in the world of smartphones, some people think it would be nice to have accompanying device with yet even bigger screen, than their big smartphone"

Agreed - I am doing the same.

If the Pre3 doesn't work out, I don't want the TP. I am looking for a coherent ecosystem for my data and communications. That's one of 3 choices now, and I'm not mixing my phone and tablet. I like synergies between the two.

Yes, absolutely! Need a new phone before I can start thinking of other "nice to have" devices to go along with a new phone. Hopefully a Pre3. But, if for whatever reason I will end up going with an Android phone, it would probably make more sense to go with an Android tablet as well. So at this point yes, I am waiting for a new phone.

Like many of us said in the beginning, HP should have priced the TouchPad aggressively out of the gate to build WebOS marketshare and a userbase to attract more developers. A large corporation like HP and Microsoft can afford to have minimal profits on a first generation device, and then reap the profit on the next generation, ie: TouchPad 2.0, Pre 3, and the rumored slab phone.

Exactly. I'm shocked how such a huge company that HP is, has taken sooooooo long to release anything. The Pre3 is nothing but slightly better specs in a slightly bigger phone. HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO RELEASE THAT?!

Apparently, more than a year.

And they should have bought developers starting when they bought Palm. It looks like they didn't pay any attention to developers until this recent $50 coupon.

With the right price, the right apps pre-loaded and the 3.02 patch, the TP reviews would have been totally different and they might have generated some buzz.

Now it is too late to generate buzz, they will need a long slog grass roots campaign to get anywhere.

Duh. Tablets go hand-in-hand with their phones. No webOS phones = no tablet sales. Period. webOS is dead. HP thought they could have a quiet release of webOS products to bring it back. It's as if webOS is still being lead by those idiots from Palm. HP failed all webOS fans.

There's a reason that Jon Rubinstein is no longer in charge and this pretty much sums up why.

People are not dum. When all the material advertises the Touchpad with sync to phone and there is a freezing silence about the phone....what would you think about that company? Deception, lies, unexcited lameness. Non event, no excitement about what they do, etc.

I haven't seen the commercials advertise TTS, so i would be surprise if the people even knew about sync to phone.

There are barely even any commercials for the Touchpad, period. How do you expect to sell a device that is not advertised and that a sales staff doesn't know how to use? BB can't complain if their sales suck if they don't know how to work/sell a product.Shame on HP for not trainging them and marketing to the masses.

I don't know what you watch, but any given night I see at least five Touchpad commercials, with more Lea Michele commercials than Russell Brand commercials.

Exactly right. Apple troll?

Yes and they are all annoying

Apple Troll???
You boys couldn't be further off.
Here in NY I enjoy watching Yankee games, NBC, ABC, CBS, Spike, and a host of other cable channels. While I have seen great Russell Brand commercials on Precentral, i have seen VERY few on actual TV. I don't know where you live or how much TV you watch, but here in Westchester, aside from a few Manny Pacquiao veer commercials, I just don't see the media Blitz here.
While not an Apple troll, ere is what I am. I am a Pre- (Sprint) user for over 2 years. I am someone who loves WebOS. I am someone who sees the HP vision of the future...WebOS on your phone, tablet, laptop, desktop, TV, etc etc and all the devices communicate seemlessly.
Something else I am is highly disappointed. While WebOS is a superior platform, my Pre is a POS. I am on my third one and the speaker has gone on this on again. Today I read that Sprint is getting rid of all legacy devices so i amy not be able to replace this last one. It looks like the Pre3 is not coming to Sprint, so where does that leave me? Unless BobAtPitt or dkmrules would like to foot a tierer ATT or Verizon bill for me, i am stuck with a broken Pre or i am forced to switch to a different platform as long as Sprint has unlimited data. (Should that change i will get the Pre3 on the other carriers).
As for the Touchpad I am equally disappointed. Not in the device, it is awesome, but in the support. I have been to three best buys, a staples, and Walmart. walmart still does not have a touchpad. Staples has one on display that doesn't power up. Two Best Buys had non functional units. The last Best Buy had a broken display and the signage had fallen down and a functional unit that didn't have any music or pictures loaded on it nor an internet connection. While I know and love WebOS, how is Joe Customer supposed to get excited over or buy a device that either a) doesn't work or b) is incapable of displaying anything that makes it so great? No one is going to fork over $500 for a device that can synch email accounts. Add to that the fact that the salespeople had no knowlege of how to work or display Webos and the fact that 20 feet away was a wonderful Ipad display with an Apple representative displaying functional units and answering questions...well, you can see where Joe Customer is going to spend his money.
It disappoints me and pisses me off. The Touchpad is a great product but the retailers are not highlighting it, nor giving it any attention. HP is not on top of them. HP didn't even have a big launch promotion (many people i talk to call the TP an Android). HP and BB are equally to blame for the apparent failure of a potentially great device.

I don't watch much TV, but I have been watching MasterChef and **** s Kitchen all summer. Monday and Tuesday, 8-10pm on FOX. Every commercial break has had a Touchpad commercial - all. summer. long. Usually it's the Glee girl, but also Russel Brand and a few Manny Pacquaio commercials mixed in for good measure.

Verizon has also been pimping the LG Revolution and the Galaxy Tab 10.1 during these same commercial breaks.

I don't know what advertising has been done in the US, but here in New Zealand there has been next to none! The TP was released here last week, and the only reason I knew was because I had been scanning the stores websites daily for any news. I can't understand the lack of a sales push for the TP!

Maybe because NZ is not as big a market as everywhere else?

Just realize you're in a comparatively insignificant market and you'll understand.

I see TouchPad commercials every day on TV, and like rsanchez1 said, more than just one. I've also noticed a strong push for advertising at the movie theaters. Mostly the Russell Brand ones, but anything is better than nothing.

one word: software! GOts to get quickoffice HD out, even if its a beta and citrix for business - a production version.

Hurry up and get more games and software out.

I agree about the software. I have my TP, and I love it, but so restricting that I cant work on it with MS office docs, etc. HP should have had this sorted for release!

Maybe the numbers are slightly off but does anyone really believe the TouchPad isn't a flop?

Yes, go to the forums here & you'll see for yourself. Basically any thought other than the Touchpad is awesome, HP totally knows what they're doing, the price drop was actually a good thing, the TP reviewers are all liars, the Pre 3 will totally be relevant by the time it actually comes out, etc, is met with harsh ravenous attacks from the hardcore members that are left here. Mods close legitimate threads claiming it's "troll-bait" before discussion can even begin.

So yes.

This a webos site. It is also the only one that still exists so do the math...

I think webos fans are like to ignore facts. They tend to ignre all the faults and convince themselves that they have a great product. Sadly most consumers do not think like that.

There's still such a thing as reality, which most members here seem totally detached from. All that does is make them look like fools & also drive away new members/rational current members.

And it's totally your responsibility to change that.

Holier-than-thou much?

I don't think he wants to change it. I think he's just very amused by it, especially as the bubble a lot of these people lock themselves into is on the verge of popping.

Agreed.

On the contrary, we know there are things that need to be fixed, but we also know that there are only TWO things that need to be fixed pronto: the disappearing sound bug, and apps. Other than that, the TouchPad is a fun to use and useful. I love giving demos of this thing 'cause it dances circles around the iPad in so many ways... :)

If HP sticks it out, this thing *will* succeed. I'm afraid to think that they might already be thinking of bailing. That would be a mistake. They need to be VERY aggressive on pricing and get Netflix and QuickOffice out there yesterday. Not to mention a new phone...

Can't say I'm terribly surprised.. HP totally phoned it in on this one. I'm not even sure they've got one more chance at this. But they certainly cannot pull this **** again. They need to get rid of the existing TP stock, at a loss if necessary, and focus on what's next. No, I'm not talking about the Pre 3. They've blundered this so bad they need a totally fresh start, and this time they need to go big or go home.

Once upon a time I thought I would come back to WebOS once they got their act together. I'm doubting that more every day.

They should take advantage of the Googerola deal, get out of the smartphone business, and license webOS to Motorola's competitors.

Agreed...but I thought this was the "fresh start".

He was talking about fresh start for phones.

2/9/10 - Think Beyond: Small, Medium, Large. 2 Phones, 1 Tablet.

Wasn't Think Beyond supposed to be a "fresh start"? A webOS relaunch?

So now webOS needs another fresh start just for phones?

Obviously.

As we'd alway scream in the school yard as children:

DO OVER!!!!!!

It's time to get away from the tedious numbering of WebOS. Windows went to XP. Intel went to Pentium. Give WebOS 4 a catchy, lifestyle name.

HP is proud to announce, WebOS...Mulligan!

Mulligan will put you on the fairway of productivity!

Everybody On!

if the pre 3 release is imminent in US (i.e. already released in UK - see forums). then that may help to demonstrate touch to share features promised in the ads!

Based on the Pre 2 release, there's still another 6 month wait till Verizon releases the Pre 3.

I bought backorder from OfficeMax because the drones at Best Buy were too busy to box in-store product for me. I have never seen a TP in the wild. No touch-to-share, no doc editing, no scanning barcodes, no commercial seen in 2 weeks. I'm anticipating analyst comments tomorrow being the same as mine.

Brand new Google phones to be released in the coming months!

Rain will fall from the sky in the next couple of hours!

I don't believe you.

I want the guy who claimed $499 is good price in the editorial to stand out and apologize.

Those who blind defend every wrong decision made by HP is NOT true webOS lovers! you guys are killing it!

The crying shame is that the TouchPad is a GREAT device (I own one)! HP just needs to address a few minor issues and one major one (the apps). I won't EVER give up on webOS. I'm learning how to develop for this thing, and if I have to write every app I need, I will... ;)

...once you learn to develop, you'll learn it is slightly more complicated than slicing a bread, and you are simply not capable of writing "every app you need", in fact, you will be able to develop few simple ones by yourself, unless you have no life and can spend all of your time on programming & sleeping

You do know some people make a living programming, right?

+1

Not on webOS.

Exactly right. I work at a company that does mobile development for iOS and Android. We do small to medium sized apps for other companies on a contract basis.
We would be happy to also develop for WebOS. We even bought a TouchPad. Our customers aren't even aware that WebOS exists. It's the distant number five behind Symbian and Windows Phone 7.
At this point the only thing that could save WebOS as a platform is pay third party developers to develop their apps for WebOS, lower prices on the hardware and aggressively develop updates to the included apps.

If it was a great device, it'd be selling.

one way to move em

1. buy a HP laptop, get a touchpad for ($50, $100 or even free depending on what kind of laptop u buy)

This sort of deal is needed. I live in New Zealand, and received advertising material from one of the local retail stores today saying "Buy a samsung smart TV and surround sound system, and get a Samsung Galaxy 10.1" tablet for free". HP HAS to do something more than price slashing to get consumer interest in the product. I bought mine a week ago, and now I'm a little concerned that new apps may dry up and render the TP all but useless!!

absolutely, I agree. Buy touchpad, get Pre 3 unlocked, free. Make it limited time offer, or whatever, but make this things disappear from the shelves.

And start COMMUNICATING with the community, for God's sake...

Its going to be interesting how they spin these numbers on the earnings call.
Lets face it, the tablet race is all but over for HP. They were too late to the game with an inferior product which was poorly promoted. A year from now webOS will be sold to someone else or dropped altogether. HP, please reconsider the "invent" part of your logo.

They won't mention sales, just shipped numbers exactly like RIM did with the Playbook during their earnings call.

Since I'm not the leak on the Woot number, I will say that they only had 1k total, and that the number of items available is typically NOT "thousands" - unless you mean shirts.

Woot publishes it's sales #'s at the end of each Woot. You can back track them if you like, they generally do sell items in the thousands. They had the Xoom for sale less than a month ago and sold over 2,000.

However, if Staples didn't have that $200 off the same weekend, I think more TouchPad's would have sold on Woot.

As has been pointed out before - the Woot numbers are pretty much irrelevant as the device was available for *less* at bricks&mortar retailers on the same weekend.

Would you really order a device and wait for delivery when you could just go to a shop and take it home for *less* money?

One of the biggest problems I see with the tp displays is the lack of "show off" apps. They should have a default profile that includes the top apps so people can see what it can do.

The iPad has a good showcase of apps on their demo units. HP should do the same.

If I didn't know about webos, there is nothing compelling in the tp demos that would make me buy it over the iPad.

Just purchased the Touchpad at a BestBuy today, $150 off with the purchase of the Veer. Finally ditched Sprint. I get no signal from Sprint most of the day at work so it was a move I had to make on the carrier side.

The BestBuy staff didn't make too many comments on TouchPad sales. I did try to get the Veer in black and they found that there were no black Veer's at any BestBuy's in the state of Illinois. But it didn't seem to be from strong sales. The guy at the store had trouble putting the SIM card in the phone and commented that it was nice that such a small phone had the Android 2.1 OS.

I'm pretty happy getting the Veer and the 16GB Touchpad for $250.

I bought my TouchPad at launch. The kid in the department said he "hadn't really messed with it so I can't tell you much about it". No wonder they aren't selling any. I'm siding a little with Cantaffordit, though. 25k seems like an awfully small number. BB should sell that many on accident.

This is on HP, too. They STILL haven't figured out the marketing. Jeez, if you have to, just copy Apple for Pete's sake. They're the only company that knows how to advertise their product it seems.

Dell recently posted lower than expected results for their business. Analysts are expecting the same for HP.

If I were HP, I'd be pushing mobile computing as hard as possible. Yes, the wireless printing is nice, but come on, printing as a business model is getting less and less relevant. Desktop and laptop PCs are still a core product, but I think the market there will fall off as mobile computing platforms evolve.

I also believe that WebOS has the technological cahones to be a powerful mobile computing platform, but its gotta have the right efforts put behind it, which it has been seriously lacking. In my view, there are only 2 reasons why WebOS is even still around: 1 its actually a great platform and 2, its very loyal fanbase which has given us the whole homebrew community.

I think WebOS's homebrewers make the software environment way more interesting and flexible than Android. Seems like our fantastic independents are getting more out of WebOS than similar environments in Android... Of course, you go independent in iOS, you almost risk members of the Federal Trade Commission busting down your door for violating Steve Job's precious patents/copyrights... (funny that hacking an iPhone is called jailbreaking!)

"I think WebOS's homebrewers make the software environment way more interesting and flexible than Android."

...that is really funny comment. I nominate it for the "Nonsense of the Day" award, that we should run here on P|C.

"I nominate it for the "Nonsense of the Day" award..."

Second.

I wouldn't say so. What makes homebrew great is the patches. They add functionality to existing system apps. This isn't how it works on Android. On Android you either have to take the included apps or use an alternative. Homebrew patches allow you to pick an choose extra features or different behavior for system apps.
Running a modified (non-stock) kernel on WebOS worked out a lot nicer than on Android with it's million devices.
And all this you can do from the little gem that is Preware.

The Android world of course is full of custom kernels and whole modified operating systems called Mods that change a lot more than all the Preware patches combined.

Rooting a WebOS device is really easy. With Android it is more of a pain in the ****

"I think WebOS's homebrewers make the software environment way more interesting and flexible than Android"

And I think that's why enterprise (or at least one reason why) are less than enthused about WebOs products.

What's "fun" for a handful of users is a nightmare for an IT department.

Simple solution, put a password on developer mode, there problem solved.

HP really screwed up big time with the demo units. It may not be possible to undo this damage. The only possible way is to immediately hire people full-time to stand in stores (ALL STORES) to demo UP-TO-DATE devices that AREN'T running the damn demo app. Skru-ups. Again, if this is true, Jobs is laughing his arse off...

Edit: Wow, skru (use your imagination) is not an allowed word? I think PreCentral needs to grow-up a bit...

The irony here is that they should have known this was going to happen because the Pre when it originally debuted also had a crappy demo app which made it unusable. You'd think that HP would have had the benefit of Palm's hindsight and not wasted its time with a demo app.

They are going to hire people, but hiring them in all stores would be a waste of resources. They're playing them in strategic spots.

...like Lunar Base, International Space Station, and Guadalcanal

:)

No, like Jacksonville, Atlanta, and other major cities.

I now for someone like you who likes to troll Precentral it might be a little shocking, but there are other sites that report webOS news that Precentral misses.

So says the troll who pretends to be a developer..lol

The whole premise is retarded. Sending your own guys in there?

Hmm..let's hire a guy to stand at the display case at Walmart to sell touchpads...

This is at Best Buy, troll.

The TP is a horrendous flop. The webOS deathwatch continues.

I posted my Best Buy experience before, but to sum it up, I checked out 3 stores in Ontario.

Best Buy Mobile (Burlington Mall) - Touchpad was in the "back somewhere"

Best Buy Burlington (Brant Rd) - 6 or 7 units out ... all of them without the 3.0.2 update (as of August 10th). Somehow it was too difficult to press an icon (update) and respond to "download update".

I corrected the problem by updating one unit and my tablet experience changed dramatically. Almost no staff were in the tablet section. If I was running this kind of business, I would've kicked somebody's **** (or fired them). EXTREMELY POOR SERVICE at this store.

At a 3rd Best Buy in North Bay Ontario (actually Future Shop) - 2 units were on display. One was dead. The other was not up-to-date (August 11th) and had NO internet .... WTF.

To me, this issue is not just a function of HP-less training, but more about a Retailer that has no f*@king CLUE about the tech business. They're just a bunch of shmucks who spout (without any true knowledge) about why the iPad is so great.

End of rant. lol
.

I have had the same experiences here in NY. I have gone to several Best Buys with the same results. The Ipad section has an Apple representative ready to answer any of your questions ona working model. The Touchpad displays are broken down, missing signage, and have Touchpads that either don't power up or don't function properly. If can find a working model you can not find a sales associate who knows jack about WebOS, how it works, or how to sell it. They lead you over to the Ipad. I was more convincing to a prospective customer than the sales rep (who I even said "Oh wow that IS cool")
HP has to make sure the retailers are selling the product, and this isn't being done from what I have seen.

Well, at the Office Depot the TP was in the back too, but you can't rant about that. You don't want a $500 easy-to-carry-away gadget out on the shelves. They had a demo unit, and cards that you had to take to the cashier to buy.

I actually live in Burlington and experienced the same issues that you did.

the futureshop in Burlington also had the same issues, the unit runs quickly until the demo app abruptly slows it to a crawl.

Wow, this is pretty funny. I'm also in Burlington and noticed the same things.

I'm really about to explode over this. I'm as angry at HP as I have ever been with any company. This is inexcusable...

But not surprising.

I've debating getting a Touchpad, but I really can't justify it without document editing. A good discount would help, too -- since the price is not so good once you add in the dock, keyboard, etc. At this point I think I might be better off with a good netbook.

I'd also consider a good bundle with a Pre3.

I don't understand the slow progress here, HP is really shooting themselves in the foot. The Pre3 is one aspect of that, but another is WebOS on the PC - why is that not possible yet? It should be easy, since they already have an emulator for the development platform.

Right now I couldn't care less about flippin' PCs. Sorry, gotta be honest... :|

WebOS on the PC is a horrible idea. It isn't designed for that. The user interface is designed for finger input, not for mouse input.

As much as I love webOS, I can't say I would be surprised by these kind of horrible sales numbers.

When webOS first came out, palm clearly looked at the market and said, "how can we make something that is different and better." It really feels like the touchad was trying simply to clone the iPad rather than do something more meaningful.

I still think there is HUGE potential for tablets in the education/design market that is not being tapped. If HP integrated a slider keyboard and great pen input into the touchpad along with microsoft office for webOS, it could be something that every student buys.

Tablets call out to be the digital replacement for paper, but still noone seems to want to provide that.

Why integrate a keyboard when you can sell a cover with a Bluetooth keyboard attached?

Best Buy bought 270,000 up front? Really? I'm a diehard HP fan and even I wouldn't have bought that many.

I think there is more to this story than what we are reading. Sounds to me that Best Buy forgot who they are dealing with. Why Best Buy would buy a year's worth of devices from a company THEY KNOW does incremental updates is beyond me. I think the thing that probably clued them in was news that HP was going to release a spec-bumped TouchPad in a couple months. Odds are, HP will release yet another spec bump before Christmas.

This sounds like someone in the Best Buy purchasing department made an oops and now they are trying to get out of it.

THIS! It seems INSANE to buy that many when HP will be releasing a better version in just a couple months!

Best Buy wanted to be part of Number One Plus!!!

By a couple of months you surely mean at least a year.

This is webOS land. "a couple months" *does* mean a year!

Best Buy is at least partly to blame when it comes to sales at their store. I originally ordered my Touchpad from Amazon, but Amazon said the delivery date would be around the 12th or so (I forget). So I pre-ordered a second Touchpad from Best Buy. I wanted it now, dammit. Gave then a $50 deposit (which they put on a gift card). Well, the Touchpad from Amazon came - a few days after the 1st, and Best Buy TO-THIS-DAY has never contacted me to say my Touchpad was in. Had I not already of received one, I would of been a bit livid. But since I had my Touchpad from Amazon, and had my $50 gift card, I figured I just wait and see how long it takes them to actually notify me.

I like shopping at Best Buy, but their prices are often not inline competitively with other places, so I often buy elsewhere.

+1

The training is interesting-- they had demo units at the two BBs that I went to, but when I snagged mine at the opening bell on Friday, the kid at the register had no idea what he was selling me.

Maybe HP should just give those extra units away to BB employees.

Yes! HP should give at least 3 employees at each store a free TouchPad (as long as they follow-up to make sure they're actually using them).

...absolutely, this is a great idea. I was proposing it prior to TP launch as well...

"hey retailer's sales reps, want to get some cool hardware for free? If you attend our workshop on how to sale TPs, you will qualify for a free TouchPad (for first two people in your store), and after that, one (*) for the person who have biggest TP sales every month

*) restricted to one unit per person"

..or something close among these lines. No need to send me any royalties for that campaign, if implemented, HP.

yeah well that exec from HP should tell the best buy execs that it doesn't help when there advos say the touch pad is running android 3.0