HP TouchPad selling poorly at Best Buy, retailers in general? | webOS Nation

HP TouchPad selling poorly at Best Buy, retailers in general? 306

by Derek Kessler Tue, 16 Aug 2011 10:31 pm EDT

There’s an unsettling truth in the HP TouchPad price drop that we have to face: HP wouldn’t have dropped the price if the tablet was selling well as it was priced. A new report by Arik Hesseldahl of AllThingsD laid bare what we have long (for six weeks) suspected: the TouchPad isn’t selling as well as HP or any of their retail partners would have liked.

Staples saw a lot of success with their TouchPad $200-off sale, but it’s likely they only had a few in stock to begin with. A better barometer might be Best Buy, who has been selling the TouchPad at full price since launch. According to Hesseldahl’s report, Best Buy was sent 270,000 TouchPads by HP, and they’ve only managed to sell 25,000 of them (a number that another source said might be “charitable”). Does that seem like an unreasonable number? Recall the Woot sale of the TouchPad: they sold 612 at $120 off. Woot usually pushes thousands of any one item, HP computers included.

Best Buy is reportedly so livid about the sales of the TouchPad that they’re refusing to pay for all of them, instead insisting that HP take them back. A high-level HP executive is supposedly going to be meeting in person with these angered Best Buy executives to smooth things over, but when you’ve got masses of unsold inventory on hand, we can’t imagine that will be a very friendly chat.

HP reports their quarterly earnings tomorrow, and if these numbers are true, we expect that they will remain mum on the exact number of TouchPads actually sold. As AllThingsD posited, we expect that if HP’s actually going to give out any numbers for TouchPad sales, it’ll be “channel sales” or “shipped,” numbers that both don’t actually translate to customer sales. Just ask any Palm employee about what happens when you have hundreds of thousands (or millions) of units in excess inventory sitting around.

Though, if you go into any Best Buy, chances are you’ll get an example as to why things aren’t going well for the TouchPad: sales rep training for webOS is still in not good shape. You might even go so far as to call it miserable shape. We’ve heard plenty of reports from readers that have visited their local Best Buy only to have a sales rep try to talk them out of buying a TouchPad, because they really had no clue how the thing worked. And then there’s the problem with the TouchPads in stores running a special demo version of webOS that is both full of memory holes leading to serious lag and Too Many Cards errors, as well as unable to be updated to the much more pleasing experience that is webOS 3.0.2.

So if you’re HP and sales really are as miserable as this report suggests, what are you to do? Get the training system in order so the sales reps actually know how to sell the device. It’s one thing to not have training on a specific HP laptop for a month or two – the specs speak for themselves and everybody knows Windows. It’s another for your flagship product running a new OS most sales reps, let along most customers, aren’t all that familiar with, to not have extensive pre-launch training.

HP, there’s a small part of us that wants you to announce a blockbuster sales number for the TouchPad, but we don’t expect it to happen. And that’s okay, you can’t change the past. What you can change is the future and the now. It’s time to get sales rep training in order and kick up the advertising to the same level of Apple and Samsung. There’s still time to succeed, but the clock is ticking.

Source: AllThingsD



The exec from HP should just go write the exec at Best Buy a check for the company and run it themselves.

Best Buy total revenue: $50 billion
HP total revenue: $126 billion

(fyi: Apple total revenue: $65 billion)

And despite that Leo still says there is no room for unprofitable ventures at HP.

WebOS and HP's mobile experiment certainly falls in that category.

HP revenue 128B, Apple revenue 100B.

HP gross profit 29B, Apple gross revenue 25.5B.

HP profit margin 7%, Apple profit margin 23.5%.

HP cash 12B, Apple cash 28.5B

HP run Best Buy? I wouldn't trust the HP crew to run a burger stand. Apple buying HP might in in the 'coming months'.

You're confusing HP webOS GBU with the rest of HP.

Correction: As of July 11, 2011 Apple's cash position was $76.2 Billion. And they made $10 Billion with a "B" in the last quarter. That's from the Wall Street Journal. I googled "apple earnings 10 billion cash" and that's how i got the result.

AppleDogs, sorry but... what are you doing here, beyond lauch flames, flames and more flames?

Serious... I just don't understand... :-/

Best Regards... B)

Both times I went to Best Buy (Albany, NY) to look at the Touchpad they had a HP representative posted up next to the display ready and able to talk to anyone interested or who even looked in the direction of the unit.

The guy was pretty helpful (at least in explaining the basic benefits of the touchpad to the layman), though he had some pretty bad breath so that probably didn't help the cause.

I thought it was a great move on HP's part to have a representative in Best Buy because the BB staff obviously had no clue what the device was, but if no one is reporting seeing these guys then they probably didn't send to many out to other stores.

i see free veers or even the pre 3 with purchase of touchpad.....or vice versa.

on another note, im curious to know how credible is the info.

The problem is that the Touchpad offers no real value to end consumers because the ecosystem is very weak. Saying it's great at browsing the web doesn't do much for the cause since a netbook costs the same and is even better at browsing the web. The ipad offers unique apps that other tablets do not.

Is it better at browsing the web? Personally I like using the touchscreen to browse the web. Much more convenient than point, click, scroll browser wheel and hunt for the zoom button.

Funny thing is, I would love to buy the tablet, but whether I'm on Sprint or not, I have to have a phone to pair with it. I want to use it for it's full potential, otherwise I may as well go with a different brand completely (phone and tablet).

Sad part is, I'm sure there a lot of other legacy users with the same viewpoint. I'm not continuing on with a tablet unless a phone will also work hand in hand.

Amazon seems to be selling TPs really well, still highest user rated tablet on the site

Amazon seems to be reporting the following:

"Item Under Review

While this item is available from other marketplace sellers on this page, it is not currently offered by Amazon.com because customers have told us there may be something wrong with our inventory of the item, the way we are shipping it, or the way it's described here. (Thanks for the tip!)

We're working to fix the problem as quickly as possible."

Strange, nothing wrong with the 16gb on Amazon, just the 32gb one listed as being sold by SJohnson236. Not sure why Amazon is selling and fulfilling the 16gb, but has the 32gb version listed as being sold by SJohnson236.

Have you heard of review bombing?

webOS fans wouldn't do that...would they? /sarcasm

At our BB, the two display units don't even work, won't charge. Finally got to a regional type who checked it out and said they were using all the cables and chargers they got from HP, he checked around and said some other stores having same problem -- What HP sent then didn't work!

So you can't even play with the things at our BB, meanwhile, There is always seems to be a guy from the manufacturer standing around pushing, the zoom or the galaxy or the thrive...

This story is total bull ****. There is no way in **** Best buy bought that many TouchPads.

One forum post calculated that even if BB planned to sell 100k online, that number still would mean they bought like 150 units per store

i think they should open stores in the us. seriously because i dont know about u guys but most best buy reps dont like hp products and they seriously try to get u not to buy them with training or not with hp store people will come in just to browse buy ink or a laptop and may take a glimps at a TP or a smartphone a grab one for a bundle price when apple had a hard time selling products they started opening there own stores i mean hp has store in other coutries why not here i mean realll tho

Wow, another great idea! LISTEN TO THIS GUY, HP! Open your own stores pronto!!!!!!!!

I hear everything on the internet is true.

You hear correct... :)

This story is obviously very negative news for HP and the Touchpad, true or not. The problem doesn't appear to be just HP, though, it is tablets in general.
The Register UK publication yesterday published an article that said that the retail channel analyst company Context, which tracks actual sales out data, said 15,000 Touchpads sold in Western Europe in July - 12,000 in the UK. (I don't know where they have even released the Touchpad in other areas of Europe). Here is kicker:
"Regionally, the next highest selling vendors were ACER and ASUS, that shipped 8,000 and 7,000 respectively." We can assume that these sales are for the ACER Iconia and the ASUS Transformer. Keep in mind that the Samsung Tab is banned in Europe due to a patent injunction obtained by Apple, so it can't get any Android tablet sales there, and the demand has probably shifted to ACER and ASUS. Therefore, in July, HP sold as many Touchpads as all Android tablets from ASUS and ACER (and Samsung) in Europe.
In contrast, Apple sold 160,000 tablets last month in Europe.

Unfortunately @millertime left out the saddest part - namely, it looks like the TouchPad might have already peaked with those meagre figures.

The article also states that in the first week of August HP only sold 700 TouchPads (100 in the U.K) whilst Apple sold 43000 iPads in the same period. For comparison, ASUS and ACER sold 2300 devices in that first week. HP lost volume whilst ASUS and ACER held theirs.

Are we really to expect that the US is any different? Doubt it, if anything the US is even more an Apple stronghold.

HP needs to cut the price of the TP hard and push it hard if they want to make any kind of impression. As others have mentioned, it really seems to be their own fault by a) taking too long to get the TP onto the market and b) messing up the Veer and Pre 3 releases at the same time.

It would be great actually if HP did a 'buy a Pre 3 get a TouchPad at a greatly reduced price' kind of deal, but I doubt they will.

Here's the link: http://www.reghardware.com/2011/08/15/tablet_sales_stagnating/

Not suprising at all. Only a Webos die hard fan would actually buy a touchpad and convince themselves that they are satisfied. Customers without brand loyalty would be extremely dissatisfied with a touchpad. Also compared to the competition the touchpad isn't that great.

I don't see how you can blame sales reps. Customers are looking for a device that can do what they want and the touchpad cannot edit documents, device is laggy and app catalog barely has anything worth while. How can sales rep lie and convince a customer to buy a touchpad over the ipad or galaxy tab?

BB does not help. I was standing there playing with the tablet when a woman came over and got a case for the To. She went to llok for a rep. When she found one and told her she wanted the touchpad, the Bb rep asked her why. The lady said that her whole business was HP. The rep then told her she should check out other options and took her to the zoom stand

...seems that the rep has her (customer's) best interest in mind... Hard to blame him!

There are a million reasons for someone to not buy an iPad, and it has almost nothing to do with hardware or software (I'm referring to app-store restrictions, stifling competition by lawsuit, hostility to openness, etc). HP should throw out a couple ads on this aspect!

But you know, real people don't care about any of that.

Regular people, who they should be trying to sell to, don't care about that stuff. Unless you're still, well, you know...

"(I'm referring to app-store restrictions, stifling competition by lawsuit, hostility to openness, etc)."
yet, with all these "restrictions", them Apple customers enjoy immensely more high quality apps, third-party accessories and services integration, so how pointless and irrelevant argument it was on your par?

And apart from that - who cares if you don't like Apple's business model, if it works well for their users, their developers, and certainly for themselves?

While I agree that these things don't seem to matter to the market, BobAtPitt is right in that these are valid reasons against the iPad just as 1984 Apple touted certain reasons to hate "the other guys".

Still, the market does not care about these reasons no matter how valid they may be.

Well I went to a random Best Buy here in Edmonton Canada and it's just like everywhere described by other members. There was a total of six unit on display, 2 were dead, 2 weren't setup so were unusable and only two worked but didn't have the firmware upgrade 3.0.2. Not to mention that I didn't see anyone that seemed knowledgeable about the touchpad.
On another note I found out that best buy and future shop employees in Canada are able to purchase the Touchpad for cheap ($120 for 16GB and $150 for 32GB). Based on this I was contemplating getting a part time job there. I am sure I would be able to sell a few Touchpads.

In addition to training I think presentation is also an issue. All demo TouchPads should have the latest software installed and must be functioning. Set up a few with the wireless charger (this would turn some heads) and the wireless keyboard. Put an HP printer next to it with some printed documents. Hire me.

"In addition to training I think presentation is also an issue. All demo TouchPads should have the latest software installed and must be functioning. Set up a few with the wireless charger (this would turn some heads) and the wireless keyboard. Put an HP printer next to it with some printed documents. Hire me."

So what does it tell you about HP that they didn't do any of this?? That they sent out a crappy demo that cannot even receive that crucial OTA update??

"So what does it tell you about HP that they didn't do any of this?? That they sent out a crappy demo that cannot even receive that crucial OTA update??"

It tells me HP was not being honest when they said "we already knew about the software issues and have been working on a fix."

It tells me that HP is the one needing the training.

HP problems :

1. Not able to edit office docs
2. No words with friends app
3. WiFi/ no internet unless you have a network to jump on

tablet issues in general:

1. Unable to run non app programs.

we as a society are moving to a cloud based internet where we the consumer just buy devices that allow us to connect to the internet the run virtual programs with data stored remotely. Right now we are getting the devices but the software companies are lacking to keep up.

if HP would fix the office editing issue, g3/g4 technology (not sure why they went with at&t) and have some of the wider based popularity apps like words and farmville they might see that bump in sales

Wasn't PreCentral just saying a week or two ago that its "normal" for HP to suddenly drop the price of their products?

Does this mean all of HP's products are normally failures?

the printers they offer are incredible especially high end ones.

...yeah, they are "incredible" - incredibly expensive to run, comparing to Canons etc.

it means they were rationalizing.

Every store I've been to the Touchpads work but there are no apps. Just the few native apps that don't do much. It's not just BB, it's every store that sells the Touchpad.

Really poor display that won't sell anyone on the product who didn't come in looking to buy one.

totally agree. if you can't access the app catalog the display model of darn near any tablet including the ipad is boring.

This is pretty Sad. I bought one during the Staples blow out sales! I am wondering if I made a mistake? But after using it for a week now I am really impressed and certainly like what it can do.

I had an ASUS transformer with the Dock for one month and overlapped a week with the Touchpad before it went back to Amazon (Asus). I did like it. The widgets on the Asus are quite nice. I love the email, calendar and weather ones. They are handy and offer a much nicer at a glance experience then the iPad as well as the TP even though the notification of the TP made it much better. But the iPad (only used one for 3 days when I was given one to test) which requires you to launch and app for anything you need to do. But in all honesty I did not miss the widgets going to the touchpad. They did seem to slow down the desktop on honeycomb and some of them where very unprofessional looking.

Email was as good on the TP as it was on the Asus in a few way I might even like more on the Asus but only by a hair for the Asus has its issues with email as well. I setup a hotmail, AOL, Yahoo, and a Google Account on both devices. The HP was only inferior when it cam to Hotmail for it wasnt push like it was on the ASUS. But the TP had the advantage of having all account under one application. I needed 2 on the Asus. I did not like how it has to launch a new card for a forward or a reply was needed. Took up time to load and just could be done better. However the TP has spell checking in line...Honeycomb...no!! This is stupid...every tablet should have some form of spell checking. especially since on screen keyboard are far from perfect.

The notification system on the TP has all current tablets left in the stone age. Honeycomb is good but nowhere near Webos! iPad...forget it, nothing gets in the way more! Their notification system is complete garbage! Even the new version in iOS 5 isnt even close to webos! TP is done right, non-intrusive, elegant, and organized!!!

Multi-tasking. Ok Honeycomb does it but it is sloppy and a complete unorganized mess. iOS is a faker. The webos card system is once again easy to navigate, smooth, intuitive, and organized!! It is also easy to pickup. Apples double pump on the middle button is horrible! It isnt even a fully true multi-tasking system.

Keyboard, I absolutely hated the Asus onscreen keyboard it is the worst on screen of any tablet I have ever used!! Apple...pretty good! I like it quite a bit. But the TP is really nice! My favorite and it is smooth, visually pleasing, and laid out right!

Web browsing the TP runs away with it! I would love tabs but it does fine with the cards!! Flash works very well. Pages function like a desktop. I can do just about everything I can on a desktop browser! Now on the asus I had high hopes with Flash. I got tons of force closes and that was after the latest updates...it did get better but honestly not enough. It is too chunky!! I mean really chunky, trying to type in a web form was so slow and choppy...it was damn near unusable at times. The iPad...web is a mixed bag...hit a flash page forget it. And Skyfire..SUCKS!! The browsing is a disappointment on the iPad! The TP web experience is far above the rest.

IMing is quite nice on the TP, it is integrated into one app that handles all but MSN. And it includes Skype!! I do wish it had facebook then it would cover them all!! Honeycomb...expect one Google account you need a 3rd party app such as eBuddy which works fair at best compared to the TP. Same goes for the Ipad. HP seems to have the integration done for better across the board then the others. Less dependent on multiple apps to do the same thing. I do like the facebook app more then I did with the Asus, friendcaster and FriendMe have ads and the interface is not laid out well on either. Something I liked but overall the TP facebook integration is better!

The speakers another thing the TP is miles ahead are very good and loud without much distortion!! Asus...no, ipad...no! TP is so much better it isnt even funny!

Printing...is STELLAR...doesnt work everywhere but it does where it needs to be for now. it will work with any IP HP printer as well as then new web based HPs. I never got Google Cloud print to work! And I do this for a living! iPad never tried.

Now what I dont like about the TP. Copy and paste!! SUCKKKKKSSS! Honeycomb is very good so is iOS!!! TP need to get this fixed! No killer apps yet! I love Pulse on my honeycomb! NewRepub and Mosaic are **** battery life...not horrible but not as good. No HDMI, no network file browsing! Lack of Apps is a total killer! I fell in love with certain apps on honeycomb...keepass, teamviewer, pulse. tablet optimized pandora, News360 etc!!! No show stopper apps on the TP yet. Oh and the calendar needs help...apple and google android calendars work far better...honeycomb was easily the best! I have sync issues with TP calendar back to google. Just buggy at the moment.

My finding is this. The iPad is an App loader! Has very little web ability and relies on apps to offset it lack of web ability. Which in many was is ok. But when you have to pay for these apps to do certain thing that you could normally do from a desktop web-browser I thing that is too much! It has zero individuality and no widgets so you need to dig through the fisher price interface to get to what you are doing. I got bored with the iPad quick! I found myself putting it down more. I do love the apps and they are far better looking and function rich then the TPs at the moment but I am not missing much as of yet with the TP.

Honeycomb...jack of all trades and a master of none!! It is ultra customizable, has gobs of different configs (Hardware wise)! Widgets are really pretty awesome!! It feel more like a computer then a coffee table toy...cough iPad! I used it for a week as my business pc and left my MacBook pro with bootcamp home...I was able to do everything I need without getting stuck. Adding the Transformer dock and I got monster battery life I could hammer out long emails and a mouse...really didnt the mouse much except when I was remote desktop connecting to server and what nor. Honeycomb is really nice super powerful...far more then iOS in my opinion because it is more then an app loader.

Now the TP, what it has in common with both it tends to do better. Web, Email, IMing. I love the onscreen keyboard and enjoy searching as I do on the web for stuff...something that was slow on the honeycomb. It does music as good and movies as well. But the TP hardware is pretty weak. It isnt as fast but not in a way that bothers me but could be better. Seems that this is a Palm curse! Hardware is the death of the WebOS! Oh and the camera...garbage! It could use 2 and a higher MP! But I didnt use my Asus one either and what it took picture wise was fair at best! I hope the TP will live on. it needs apps, better hardware, and a little tweaking. It is a decent tablet that will get overlooked for it is new and late to the party. It is unfortunate for it seems to excel better at the things it does in common with the others. I am keeping my fingers crossed! For I am a fan and after my experience with all other tablets I will pick it above the others even with its flaws for I am able to get what I need from it. It is stable and covers the basics more then well. I just want more and that is yet to be seen! Good Night!

You sure live up to your name...

wow.. that's a great comparison post, thanks for sharing your first-hand experiences!

Your comment is longer than the actual article you are commenting about.

I wouldn't put much credibility in these numbers. However, in all honesty, HP dropped the ball with both the Veer and Touchpad launches.
Bottom line -- you have to be able to sell these devices in a retail store. And you can't do that with non-functioning floor models, unmotivated sales staff, and inconsistent marketing displays. It's all about the ground game. HP has pretty much (sadly) failed in that regard.


We are blaming bad sales on sales reps now? What's the excuse if the sales were bad on Woot where there is no sales rep? Or the internet? Amazon? Preorders? HP.com? Most people avoid sales people anyways. "No just browsing."

If i wanted a product there's no sales rep that's gonna talk me out of it. When i bought my pre no sales rep kept me from buying it or made me buy it. I've been to best buys in the So Cal area numerous times, yesterday included, and one thing i noticed, besides the fact that they stock zero Palm chargers, is only once since launch have i ever seen a person actually stop and use the touchpad on the display. And i check every time i go. Once in like maybe 20 visits. And that one time was a week after launch and the Best Buy guy was right there leading the lady through the device. So i'm not remotely gonna blame sales reps when the only one i saw was doing a great job explaining and i even heard him correct some guys misconception about the Touch Pad. But most of the time they are looking at other brand tablets. Same at Frys too. Yesterday i saw a lady buy a $199 android tablet. But nobody was even looking at the Touch Pad. It wasn't a reps fault. There was nobody interested in asking a rep about the tablet. That was the real problem. Every product Palm or HP launches it's like and endless blame game. It's the marketing, or commercials, or a soft launch, or the sales reps, etc. At some point maybe it's time to consider the truth could be that some consumers just don't like the product.

"What's the excuse if the sales were bad on Woot where there is no sales rep?"

Cheaper in bricks&mortar stores on same weekend. Pretty good "excuse" in my book.

I have no data on TP sales. They might be either stellar or horrible for all I know (and my guess is they aren't great).

What I do know is that the sales figures of an online store (Woot) that has to ship its product is utterly irrelevant when the same product was available for less in stores (on same weekend) where people could handle it and then take it home right away.

Just more excuses for failing.

Well, seeing how sales reps are the one supposed to sell, because the're, you know SALES reps...

Sales people walk around and annoy people. And there's no sales reps standing by the apple ipads but there are tons of people. Everything around webos is just a blame game. How about make product that sells itself? If you need sales rep to sell you product has a problem. But sorry everything surrounding webos is just excuse making.

You can't blame sales reps when nobody is interested in what he's trying to sell.

No sales reps standing around the iPad? Every BB I've been to has the mini Apple store with the Apple sales reps.

I've now read 4 articles just like this one and the thing that surprises me more than the potential lack of sales is the lack of any kind of skepticism or critical analysis. There's no break down of the numbers, no extra corroborating or conflicting information that's introduced. None of those reporting seem to have their own inside resources, friends inside Best Buy or HP, even anecdotal information to add. Every site just seems to take the same story from AllThingsD and regurgitate it.

It seems like there are a couple of good stories here, but no one wants to dig any deeper than half a page summary. For instance there's a story here about a product that received lukewarm but not scathing professional reviews, released an update that fixed those reviewers complaints, received ZERO followup reviews, received outstanding customer reviews (4.5 stars on Amazon and Best Buy) and is failing in the market place. Then there's another story about Best Buy's buying practices, they're overall failure to sell tablets (other than iPads) in general, their lackluster sales staff, etc.,.

You don't even have to dig very far. Look at the quotes from HP and analysts about how many TouchPads HP expected to ship per quarter and the number of Best Buy stores in relation to the number of retailers HP partnered with for the TouchPad. Or look through some of the reviews and forum posts to hear comments from real customers about how either they couldn't find a Best Buy employee, staff didn't know anything about the tablet, staff mis-identified it as an android tablet, staff pushed customers away from a purchase, dead demo units, blocked off demo units during big sales days, no demo units, staff told customers to wait, horrible internet connections, and on and on.

Try a little harder please.

"For instance there's a story here about a product that received lukewarm but not scathing professional reviews, released an update that fixed those reviewers complaints, received ZERO followup reviews..."

Perhaps you've heard that you only get one chance to make a first impression. It doesn't really matter how great you make something X amount of time later - the damage is already done. Please see the Palm Pre, Pre Plus, Pixi, Pixi Plus, Pre 2, HP Veer for further examples.

They're all copycat articles from the original one posted at AllThingsD. Remember, real journalism doesn't take place on the internet. How many times do we have to hear about Apple rumors again?

I bought the 32gb from staples with the 200 off. Very happy with device. Went shopping for accessories today @ both staples and BB. In staples the device was off, and there was no charger attached. BB the units were on, but not all to WiFi, when tablets are primarily internet devices.

I am not excusing HP for any shortcomings, but I have been a big box retail manager, and currently work with VZW. The bottom line is if your retailers don't support the product it won't sell.

Yes HP should have made the device software better @ launch, but I was there when Droid was born and it has been catch up and update since day one, with features not available @ launch fairly standard. The difference has been sales rep support and even excitement. If retailer are not selling the devices @ the reduced price they are not trying.

I left my charger back east after traveling this weekend. Yesterday i went to every store i could find to look for a Palm charger. The actual palm one. AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, Best Buy, Radio Shack. And i went to multiple stores each. Not a single one had a Palm branded wall charger or touchstone. Must have been 10 stores. Oh and Frys too. None. I finally just found micro usb to usb cable at Frys to charge. But there are almost no accessories for any of the phones.

"The bottom line is if your retailers don't support the product it won't sell."

If Best Buy treated the iPad like the did the Touchpad, would it still sell? There goes that argument.

"If Best Buy treated the iPad like the did the Touchpad, would it still sell? There goes that argument. "

Now - yes.

At launch - not so much.

But having it's own chain of dedicated stores helps Apple to ensure that knowledgable staff are available and focused on selling the device.

BTW - I happened to be in the US while the TP was launched and visited a Best Buy in Oakland.
I never bother asking the salespeople - but they did try to offer help (which I declined) - so I can't say whether they would have been competent or not.

The TPs were nicely displayed - 4-6 of them - all of them working. But that was during the first week.
They worked fine. No extra apps installed (AFAIR).

Second time I went there there were 2-3 girls/young women standing there and playing with the TPs. At least one of them already had the Veer and they talked about another who had the Veer and a TP. They seemed very interested. Very anecdotal - but certainly not the precentral geekcrowd.

They had lines around the corner at launch. Yeah it would sell because it sells itself.

Best Buy sales reps are not selling the iPad, the mini Apple stores in BB are selling it.

============ I want everybody to read this=========

1. HP shipped 300,000 in TOTAL since July launch. do you guys really think more than85% of them went to best buy?????

2. BestBuy has around 1100 world wide. if BB order 270,000 unit then each store will have more the 250 units, which is very unrealistic. Even if BestBuy keep 200,000 online (not likely due to the high stocking fee) that still means more than 65 unit per store, but i Have not seen any BB store carry more than 10 units of TouchPad.

3. BestBuy will not RETURN product because they don't own them or paid for them. BestBuy helps manufacture to host and sell product and make money as a middle man. BestBuy don't own these products. Infact, best buy doesn't even pay the manufacture until 1 month after the item sold. that's how you get the 30 days money back return policy, because best buy never paid for those

4. releasing a bad news about a company close to their earning report is a classical example of bad business practice. it seems HP's competitors are having fear about the TouchPad and try to push it down. However, this make me believe in the TouchPad even more.

5. I used iPad/ iPad2/ Asus transformer / Moto Xoom, I can tell you this.

TouchPad will not out sell the iPad2, but TouchPad will out sell any individual android tablet in the market right now. WebOS offer a much more polish tablet experience compare to android. Also, WebOS now has more tablet specific app than Android. Not only that, HP's advertisement seems to be working now. You might not believe this, but when I shopped at staple today I heard a little girl tell her dad that :" I want a TouchPad." Tears were in my eyes people.

Now, HP. Please sue this **** out of the business.

You really don't know what you're talking about on point #3, do you?

Its extremely common for retailers to have payment terms called Net 30. That's an accounting practice and has nothing to do with customer return policy.

Retailers and suppliers have legal agreements (contracts) on file to cover things like how to handle returns.

The merchandise in stores is owned by BB, with extremely few exceptions. That's the dollar amount they report on financial statements and pay taxes over.

yeah, i did a bit more research and my point on #3 is indeed wrong. i said that because I was reading an article another day about company don't get paid from walmart until 90 days later and it is quite common for all walmart suppliers.

but that also leads to another problem, why would BB order that many touchpad since all the android tablet is not selling well and the risk of trying a new operating system? BestBuy didn't even sell that many iPad last quarter why would it order more touchpad than iPad?

Wow - that 90 days seems awfully long. There may be special circumstances behind that one. For example, that particular supplier could import merchandise into the country or sells extremely seasonal (holiday) product.

Walmart usually pays general merchandise suppliers 30 days after the purchase orders are received.

Wow, you're so wrong about points 1, 2, 3 and 4 that I suspect you're somehow wrong about point 5 too.

The numbers are not adding up. Why would BestBuy get 270000 units if HP only shipped between 300000-400000? I've seen this story get regurgitation by 5 tech sites so far. Everyone points to the AllthingsD story. I hope HP answers this soon.

Well the TouchPad did outsell the most popular Android tablets (ACER and ASUS) in Europe in July but has fallen away badly in August it seems (see @millertime post above).

You're correct, the best any tablet can aspire to is to be clear second to iPad with >10% market share - however, the only tablet which has a chance of that is the Samsung Galaxy Tab, which is why Apple have Samsung in court over it right now.

I have never seen a TouchPad TV ad on in the UK nor seen an advert in a newspaper - with no advertising the TP has no chance. At least the ordinary consumer knows about Android.

They're not going to sell at $200. At least be realistic.

They're not going to sell at $200. At least be realistic.

And the benefit of game consoles is they can keep the same specs for over five years and still somehow stay relevant.

They're not going to sell at $200. At least be realistic.

And the benefit of game consoles is they can keep the same specs for over five years and still somehow stay relevant.

They're not going to sell at $200. At least be realistic.

And the benefit of game consoles is they can keep the same specs for over five years and still somehow stay relevant.

I'm confused as to why Best Buy can be mad when the reports of bad salesmanship are so widespread. At my local Best Buy, one is always off. The salespeople would say hello and give a cursory mention of the TP.

I bought a 32gig at the Staples sale. I love it. Yeah it has some setbacks but it does everything that I need it to do with it, (with the obvious text editing suggestion...I use Tap Note for now and that works fine)

I had it out in front of my in laws who are all Apple people. I showed my brother in law how Cards worked and he thought it was rediculously cool. He proceeded to show everyone else in the house how it worked. It also might have been that I showed him the Angry Birds easter egg.

But seriously, it's a good tablet, even with it's flaws.. I listen to music off of it because the speakers are decent enough to pull it off. If it fails, BB and Hp have no one to blame but themselves.

It all depends on what the conversations were between HP & BB when they began discussing the new items. HP would have been expected to show projected sales numbers during these meetings with the BB buyer.

BB could have purchased a large quantity based on sales figures or even was given some type of commitment on how many would sell. BB could have even been given a cost discount for taking such a large portion to spearhead the launch. We may never know.

You have to realize that there's way too many people in the world who are often quick to point fingers at others and totally oblivious to the mistakes they personally make (or their company). I've seen so many executive types who blame others just to see what the reaction is from the other party. They may even know they're wrong. Not all execs are like that, but there's enough to cause drama.

I'm not all that surprised by parts this story. HP poorly executed the launch in my opinion. Announcing the launch 2 to 3 weeks in advance?

I really want to see the TPad succeed. Disappointing, indeed.

HP is it's own biggest fan and worst enemy. They think the OS will actually sell to people outside existing Palm users. The OS isn't what sells devices to joe public - it's all about marketing and price.

Also, announcing a product 6 months before it's released has to be one of the dumbest moves EVER. Then at the 6 month mark to deliver a product that isn't ready. REALLY? The July 1st launch was for an over priced beta product. The device is obviously still over priced, has hardware defects (cracks by speakers) and has a poor catalog of apps.

This could seriously be the beginning of the end for WebOS. The $1.2 billion HP used to purchase Palm is chump change in the HP big picture - tried it, been there and didn't work... oh well.

I can see HP fading this stuff out (still no Pre3). They will stay in the tablet market with Windows 8 devices; but I would consider phones dead - **** the only thing out now is the Veer. I have yet to see someone actually use this device.

Any word on devices beyond the Pre3 - NOPE. The WebOS ecosystem will soon be gone or will be a neat little solution for a few medium and enterprise customers.

BTW - anyone hear from Leo lately?

It's not just marketing and price, it's also having good reviews and apps.

I reluctantly bought an iPod touch this year because my language teacher told my class to download some iOS apps to help in our studies (which aren't on webOS of course). And every companies website is now promoting their apps (iOS and Android).

Bad reviews, unfinished OS, no apps, I'm not surprised it's not selling regardless of marketing or price. HP shouldn't be either, and they seem to know it's a beta product that they just pushed out to get a foothold in the market before the Windows tablets arrive.

Let's hope it doesn't end up being abandoned like the Pixi (which is still available for sale on Sprint and probably currently the best selling WebOS phone) and all the other WebOS 1.45 phones were.

"The OS isn't what sells devices to joe public - it's all about marketing and price."

Which is why Android tablets so outsell IPads.
Wait! ...

You oversimplify. It's about a lot of things - some of which can compensate weaknesses in other parts.

A very cheap device with the best marketing won't sell much if the OS is an unbearable wreck.

The OS plays a part - directly and indirectly. Indirectly in what it can support and how well it performs. Directly in how it looks and feels - even though it's mostly a browser/app launcher.

The IPad does prove that marketing and a large app catalog/store can compensate for a lot. Because IOS isn't that great actually. And it ain't cheap either. But Apple delivers good lookin hardware that works (mostly) and really knows how to deliver it. Past successes help a lot also. It was much easier introducing the IPad, after Ipod, ITunes and Iphone are already well established. That also means that they started with a large number of devs competent and invested in IOS.

But the Ipad has some annoying restrictions (flash, USB, multi-tasking, restricting access, notifications - and that's just what regular users might worry about) that make parts of the potential customers hesitate to get one and others unsatisfied with the Ipad they have. Not everybody is 100% happy with their Ipads (though Apple is no doubt happy with the money they already got).

The armada of Android manufacturers will eventually eat away Apples marketshare - just like they did with the IPhone. Apple saw the signs - which is why they started to sue (based on insane patent/IP laws).

I agree that HP could have handled the webos relaunch better. It's not as terrible as many here make it out to be - but on the whole it has been underwhelming.

Marketing so far: Nice - but not nearly enough.
Preparing salespeople: Mixed at best
Specs: OK to good - but not WOW!
Announcement policy: There seems to be no policy. Unless they decided on "Random"
Dev support: Mixed. Some good stuff going on - but some decisions are astoundingly weird/bad.
Pricing: OKish at first - now so overcompetitive that it might backfire as as sign of failure or being the "cheap" cr*p alternative to Apple.

The idea of webos integration on Desktops is a good one - get early testing versions out to devs to get the buzz going. Don't announce in january and then keep quiet for a year.

You sound pretty clueless. Perhaps you should apply to HP? You could be Ruby's right hand man.

...cannot agree with you that the pricing was OKish, it wasn't, it was insanely overpriced - you just do not try to assault an established market leader with device priced as high as his (esp. if it is being known as a premium price one), having slightly worse/better specs, and an OS than might be better, but is incompatible, largely unknown or known for previous failures in the marketplace, and not having any serious third party support...

It was sooo nonsense move, it couldn't be more so.

I work at Micro Center and since launch, I've only been able to sell two Touchpads. One person already knew lots about it and the other person didn't know **** about tablets and I swayed him away from the 7" Galaxy Tab. For whatever reason, tablets have been selling like hotcakes the last couple weeks, maybe for back to school, but it's all Android. The biggest issue with the Touchpad is its physical build. It looks chubby and cheap with the rounded edges coming out past the screen/glass, its got a super slippery glossy plastic back, and it ways an absolute ton even though there's no metal anywhere. Even people who've never heard of webOS would at least take a glance at the tablet if it had **** good looks. The other major detractors are the lack of upgradable storage, lack of HDMI out, and lack of rear camera. What the **** was HP thinking? "Hmm, we're gonna launch a product, whose predecessors have had a crumby record, and the competition is insanely fierce. I think the correct course of action is to make our's less attractive and more expensive, all while having less features. That's sure to work." The Touchpad's a complete failure this go around. I don't really care either way cuz at least I'll get a good deal when stores are trying to fire sale these.

"The biggest issue with the Touchpad is its physical build. (...) The other major detractors are the lack of upgradable storage, lack of HDMI out, and lack of rear camera"

...here we go, straight from the sales trenches. Thanks for that.

Now, where are all these smart people who were telling me off, when I was bringing exactly these points as very problematic/bad decisions, and arguing that for all this missing things, it should have been priced appropriately lower?

Take your words back then, and enjoy your meal!

"1.4 GHz"? Really? Didn't someone confirm its actually 1.2 GHz?


TP: 1.2 GHz dual core
Pre3: 1.4 GHz single core

Some people made copy/paste typos on web sites and now there is no end to baseless speculation and silly debates.

Either way that's just the speeds the devices sell at - which makes sense because chip capabilities differ from chip to chip slightly. manufacturers test them and sell them (chips from the same series) as different models - depending on how much the manufacturer trusts the chip to perform at that level.
Individually many of those chips will be able to perform at higher speeds - but HP (like everybody else) can't guarantee that over the hole batch of products.

That's where overclocking comes in. In many cases this is a misnomer. It's actually clocking the chip at a speed that it has been designed for - but might not be able to perform at.

Sometimes chips will just be clocked lower because of other connected hardware, to save battery or just to differentiate products.

Devs have already "overclocked" Veer and TP. Might work or not work on your *individual device*.

If HP actually advertise it properly they might have a chance. I've not seen a single advert in the UK, there are though plenty of iPad2 ads.

They need advertising and opening up new markets (they should have the resources to do so, something palm didnt have)

I LOVE the OS on my Touchpad, but there is no way I would recommend anyone buy a Touchpad as their tablet. THERE ARE JUST TOO FEW APPS. HP cannot overcome the lack of apps with advertising. Best Buy employees would have no problem selling the TouchPad, if it was honestly the best tablet out there, but unfortunately it is not.

A computer or tablet is just a paperweight without apps. Android tablets have all the necessary apps plus connectivity options (USB and SD cards) Ipad has a good OS, and all the apps, except Flash (their major weakness), and most importantly momentum. Touchpad has the best OS, but too few apps to support it and no connectivity options. (By the way, the much advertised "better together" connectivity to the Pre phone (Pre2) is garbage.) It just astounds me that HP thought they were going to challenge the tablet world with so few apps available. They should not have even bothered to release the tablet if they were unable to have essential apps available at the time of launch.

I am on the verge of buying tablets for several of my employees and I really want to buy Touchpads for them, but will probably end up with Ipads because of the lack of Touchpad apps. I have to have document editing, database (like Bento on the Ipad) and Windows Remote Desktop before I will buy another Touchpad. I would also really like Evernote and Epocrates. It would be icing on the cake if the Touchpad 2 had SD card and USB functionality.

The TouchPad isn't offered at three local Wal-Marts and it's not even at Best Buy in my town. I've never seen the display tables or signs. It isn't as if they were there and happened to be sold out, they simply were never there. Sales people look at you like they are clueless that such a thing as the HP TouchPad exists and not one offered to look it up.

You can't sell what isn't displayed. In terms of major sales, the features of the TouchPad are nothing if it isn't offered where people can see and touch it.

I wanted a chance to hold it in my hand and see it without spending a chunk of change first. Apps are important, but so is portability, usability, etc. That's why seeing it is critical.

Even the HP rep for my workplace can't produce one for me to hold.

Is the existence of the TouchPad a Tooth Fairy story?

My local Staples store has an empty TouchPad display. It's been empty for weeks. I wonder how many they sold.
WebOs has never been something to appeal to putple-haired-kids-on-facebook type of crowd. Yet people (including HP it seems) are stil expecting to win that market.
TouchPad and WebOS have a great potential in the business market. I can't understand why nothing is happening on that front.
As far as apps and SD/USB go, please give me a break. This is nonsense. The best example is Apple itself. The Mac never had more than a handful of apps and limited accessories. Yet they lived happily for many years in their niche market. Now when games moved to consoles and apps to the web their market share keeps growing.

"Yet they lived happily for many years in their niche market."
first, they HAD their niche market, where Mac's were absolutely and indisputably BEST, better than anything else on the market, and it was for WORK (graphics), and not some couch web browsing, as tablets are mainly designed for.

Secondly, they were nowhere near "happy", at some stage they were nearly ready to close the shop. And then they brought Jobs back, and have invented an iPod, and game started changing.

There was a group of people who for some reason loved the Mac and thought it was the BEST and that was their market. If there were an internet at that time they would have probably spent their entire day posting on www.maccentral.net wondering if Sprint will ever sell Macs.
I never figured out why some people loved the Mac. Today's androiders also can't figure out why we love so much WebOs.
Yet we for some reason think it's the BEST and it's worth posting nonsense all day while waiting for the next device to hit the market.
Nothing changed.

I am a long time Mac user and I've lived through the bad times. Macs didn't have as many applications, were more expensive and sometimes also slower (late PPC G3 and G4) than PCs. But there always was a market for third party developers and there were great exclusive apps.

The state that WebOS is now in is worse than anything I ever saw the Mac being at. WebOS's outlook is worse now than it was before palm threw the towel.

Vindicates my decision yesterday to buy a refurb Nook Color at buy.com for $169, and install the CM7 Gingerbread, to get a fully functioning Android tablet (and excellent book reader) on the cheap.

I gotta say, I'm not surprised. HP blew it with the Touchpad. It was too expensive and had too few apps from the beginning. They've been farting around with the phones as well, lollygagging their way into the market with few or no new entries, meanwhile, Cupertino keeps sharpening and improving what they're doing.

Let's be honest, there isn't a whole lotta difference from the iOS programming language to the WebOs. They had basically the same group of engineers invent it! If they can convert Angry Birds from the Apple system to WebOs in a matter of days, they should be able to have a good subset of the same stuff Apple has in their App Store.If HP is the 800 pound gorilla in the room, then act like it! Entice the developers (even if you have to pay them) to give you what you need.

This whole tablet thing has only been partly about the device. The iPad is nice because it's light. The Touchpad is a little porky, but I'd be OK with that if my experience is better. It's really more about what makes the device great, the software. WebOs is an excellent operating system. It's better than iOS, intuitively and operationally. The Touchpad needs apps, otherwise it's just a pretty, glossy black paperweight.

I was an original WebOs fan. Up until recently, I was still using my Sprint Pre-. I bought iPhone 4. I miss WebOs, but what makes the iPhone 4 so good are the apps. I was hoping HP would figure that out... They didn't. Pretty dumb in my opinion.

If the Touchpad stays cheap, I will likely get one. I'll give 'em one more chance. After that, have a nice day HP/Palm.

Why would a company announce a product that's integrated and works together...the TP and Pre3, and not release it at the same time? I don't want a stupid touchpad unless i'm able to get the Pre3 on my carrier of choice. I've moved on to Android, but long for the day I come back to WebOS. Sadly it looks like it'll never happen.

I think one reason of HP's failure is to stop upgrading their old palm pre (plus) phones and they lose their old customers.

The move of abandoning all their early adopters was disastrous. It balkanized the WebOS world and made it harder for developers.

HP doesn't market WebOS in general. They've done, for practical purposes, ZERO marketing of WebOS.

If HP doesn't market WebOS, I'm talking a massive TV advertising campaign, then why would someone choose the TouchPad over the Playbook or the iPad? I see about a dozen Playbook and iPad commercials (each) every day.

The ad campaign has to focus on TV. They can do a trillion YouTube videos, but you have to search out the YouTube video. You don't have to search out a TV commercial. People are immune to ad banners on websites, so that is futile. Radio advertisement is a joke and print ads are for senior citizens.

Unless HP decides to do a TV campaign worth close to a Billion dollars, they will end up scrapping WebOS before the end of 2012...It's such a shame too, because WebOS is the best OS I've ever used.

A billion dollars to market webOS? What about not throwing good money after bad? That's what Leo was hired to take care of. He gave his marching orders about profitless revenue. I'm guessing he will decide to euthanize webOS in the next 30-60 days.

I didn't say it's a good idea; but it's the only thing that could save WebOS (if it can be saved)...In the end it's going to be Android, Windows and Apple as the only 3 smartphone OS's.

That was obvious a year ago.

A billion dollar advertising campaign? Whoa, that's a TON of money. How about strategically investing a fraction of that to get some core marquee apps that people want (ie: Netflix, Words with Friends, a working Citrix, others from Ipad's Top Apps listing)? Then, market it as a cheaper alternative to iPad with bonus neato features like multitasking cards.

That won't do anything. They can come out with Netflix and every other iPad app; but if no one knows about the TouchPad, why would people buy it?

An interesting example is the guy who orders iPads and computers from HP for the company I work for. I asked him for a TouchPad and he says "you mean iPad".

No one knows what a TouchPad is, so why would a bunch of apps all of a sudden make people aware enough to want to buy it???

Anyone think it's hilarious that Todd Bradley is going go get on a plane and talk face-to-face with Best Buy executives to get them to try to keep all of those TPs? Someone high up at HP really spilled the beans on an ugly story. There will certainly be questions about this from investors.

webOS - "It was fun while it lasted!"

Here's my Best Buy experiences:
Best Buy 1:
Customer: "How's the TouchPad selling compared to the others"
Sales Rep: "Honestly, I don't know much about this device"
Customer: "It's really neat. I have a Palm phone running the same OS"
Sales Rep: "Oh yah, it should work great with Treos"
Customer: "...I gotta go".

Best Buy 2:
Customer: "Can you please connect this to Wi-Fi like the other tablets?"
Sales Rep: "Sure" - does her thing with the password
Customer: "How come the App Catalog doesn't work?"
Sales Rep: "It's actually not my area"

Someone said Best Buy is the Verizon of 2011, couldn't have summed it up better myself.

I got my TouchPad during the Staples sale and after applying the Update and a few patches via Preware it is flying and I love it! It is Fast and works really Well. It also has all the apps I need. Because the TouchPad has Flash it doesn't need an app for every website like the Ipad does.

Here are the types of apps I use:
Web - TouchPad has a great browser.

Email - Love synergy

Contacts - Love Synergy

Calender - Love Synergy

Ebooks - Kindle app, PReader, Adobe Reader

uPnP Media Server - I use the UPnP AV Player

News - Tons of apps already on the TP

Multimedia - I use the included TP app and the
KalemSoft Player, Pandora, YouTube, TuneIn Radio, Iheartradio

Blogging - use the great WordPress app

Social Media - Facebook App, Spaz HD,

Games - I have 17 of them all formatted for the TP. I love the Chess.com app for the Pre. They dont have one for the TP, but I play right off of the web browser and it works great.

I use Google Apps with my company and so I work with documents that way. But, HP should get an updated QuickOffice for the TP.

What other important apps are missing? Please share with me the "gaping holes" in the app catalog that many are talking about.

I don't doubt the problem at Best Buy. When I went there to compare all the tablets to make sure the TouchPad was still my first choice, immediately the sales associate started trying to steer me away from the TouchPad towards his favorite ... the Toshiba Android. The sales person was not that knowledgeable about the TouchPad. He was friendly though.

Best Buy needs to get it together and SELL if they want to lessen their stock of TouchPads.

Another reason why TPs arent selling. HP should've released the PRE 3 (5months ago) at least 2months before releasing the TP. Andriod tablets and Ipads sell well because people have the phones and are familiar with the OS. WebOS is still very unfamiliar with the general population, they'll prefer to stay with they are familiar with

I seriously would've bought a Pre3 & TouchPad had they both been out. I had the money set aside for both, but they messed that up didn't they?

Where is the Pre3 review!!! Do they still have NDA in effect after the device is released?

kind of doubting if there was an nda. just kidding

If Apple had tried to sell the iPad a few months before the iPhone first launched, would it have sold well? Of course not! The problem we have here is that HP decided the tiny Veer should launch first, then the Touchpad, with what SHOULD have been a flagship device put off until whenever, with no announcements about availability.

HP is a company that got arrogant because they sell lots of Windows machines; so they thought selling their own OS would be easy.

I think they learned that Google just made it look easy to sell a new OS.

"If Apple had tried to sell the iPad a few months before the iPhone first launched, would it have sold well? Of course not!"

I'm not so sure it wouldn't sell. At that time, there was still nothing like it on the market and that's a huge advantage. Sure it had the additional advantage coming from the iPhone in 2010, but it would have still been considered revolutionary in 2007.

The real problem with the TP is not just that it does not have a ready-made phone consumer base, it's that it, despite it's few webOS advantages, still has to fight the stigma of being a "me too" device. So it NEEDS the additional advantages that would come from having a well established mobile phone consumer base.

I'd buy a TouchPad, iPad, or GalaxyTab if they were $199 or less. Any price higher is too high in my honest opinion.

The touchscreen itself costs almost 200 bucks. You have to realize that you're getting a fairly high end netbook with a far more expensive to manufacture screen. I paid 300 for my netbook itself, and they still sell those same netbooks right now for the same price. And the TouchPad's hardware trounces my MSi Wind's hardware easily.

If it can't run Adobe Photoshop or Dreamweaver, it is just an over sized smartphone (without the phone) as far as I am concerned.

There's also the fact that there's a crappy world economy and market saturation with tablets going on as well. And when I say "market saturation", I say there's a lot of early adopters out there right now that already bought iPads and somewhere in the backs of their minds are thinking "I didn't even need ONE tablet, so why should I buy TWO?".

I expect HP will do a lot better selling TouchPads overseas, though. The US market has too many tablets, and most of the people working at these stores can't really wrap their heads around them all fast enough to keep up. But giving up now would be a huge mistake. It's going to take about 9-10 months on the market for the real sales numbers to be even remotely indicative of whether or not the tablet is a failure.

I needed to kill some time this past Sunday, so I went into the local Staples to see how they are treating the TP. I would have to say that the HP end stack display is positioned better than all the rest, but unfortunately, the usb was faulty and it wouldn't hold a charge unless you played with the connector. ALL of the tablets didn't work, except for the Playbook :)

I suspect a saboteur is afoot!

I would like to add that I stopped at Staples this morning to pick up some DVD-R's for work. They had a HP TouchPad display with no HP TouchPad unit on Display (no pricing or accessories either -- I really should have taken a picture of it...). I asked if they had any HP TouchPad's in stock. However, her response was "What's a TouchPad? Is that like an iPad? We only carry the Xoom and the Blackberry Playbook."

I should have added that the price on the TP was wrong too. Funny thing was the sales girl was very eager to talk all about the tablets. She knew much more than I expected her to know, however she got really bitchy with me when I told her the Nook Color had Android running on it. She was adamant that it was the Nook OS lol

You can't really blame Best Buy for Apple dominating this market. HP was no different than the others who have tried to compete and failed, save for their OS (which suffers from hardware). License webOS and be done with it!

Stop tryin', you ain't Apple!

So much for all of the retail partners that HP touts as well as the their ability to do aggressive marketing. So much for their ability to create all this great hardware. So much for the ability of webOS to be attractive to consumers at the retail level. None of this has panned out.

Calling all HPologists - It looks like the doomsayers were right all along. webOS isn't anything special. It isn't even long for this earth.

After reading this article, I'm disgusted... not with Best Buy... but with HP...

HP needs to pull their heads out of their collective a$$e$!

I hope that HP is not going to try and blame Best Buy or Walmart for this. I don't go to the store and say I want a tablet so I'm just going to go to Best Buy and let them tell which one is the best one becaue they are so trustworthy and reliable. If I've made it to Best Buy, I already know what I want. Why??? Because the friend's recommendations, playing on a friend's tablet, commercials or other advertisements (radio, internet, news, magazine ads) hooked me. I wanted the product before I walked in the store.

Best Buy doesn't have to persuade people to buy the IPAD... they see the cool commercials (showing things that that the average-Joe might be interested in.... looking at photo albums, reading books, playing a popular game, watching a movie, using it as productivity/educational tool)... and that makes them say I want to have one so I can do that too. Average-Joe doesn't say... but does it have Adobe Flash?... does it multi-task? Average-Joe doesn't care... because usually Average-Joe isn't multi-tasking... one foot in front of the other... one thing at a time.

HP show average-Joe using the Touchpad! Not a boxer, not a singer, not an actress, or other celebrity... unless it's Sean Connery (only exception). So that they come away from the commercial saying I can see MYSELF using or doing that.

No one in Best Buy should have to convince people to buy an Touchpad. It should sell itself... and it is very telling - on the HP Marketing/Sales/Promotions staff... that it can't. I love webOS... but I should not have to stand in store and push the product which I have had to do on more than one occassion. HP should have set the devices up with special accounts that allow for more flexibility or a more robust demo that doesnt freeze so that it could sell itself that way they do not have to rely on the skills of the Best Buy (and Walmart) staff!

A clue here... if it freezes up in the store... or is difficult to use in the store... people will expect it to have problems at home... and back on the shelf it goes!

Okay, I'm off to take one of my happy pills... this has been a frustraing webOS day.

"No one in Best Buy should have to convince people to buy an Touchpad. It should sell itself..."

Imagine that.

When I went to Best Buy to purchase mine, no one there knew what it was or that they even sold it. Why would they purchase 200,000 of them to sell and not even notify or train their own employees? A lot of people are criticizing HP and I'll agree, they have made some bad steps, but Best Buy is also to blame here. The staff there just rather push Android or iOS.

Most salient observation: Pads are selling, mostly androids....

Because phones are selling, mostly androids.

Attempting to sell a pad that doesn't have an associated phone is asking consumers to have a third system in their lives...computer system, phone system, pad system. Why have three when you can have two?

Android phone-Android pad
(insert cricket here)-TouchPad.

Pretty simple, actually. I, for one, am thinking I'm going to have to go Android and so have not purchased a TouchPad. Why would I?

If I had a Pre3 the TouchPad is the logical pad to buy...but I don't...so it's not.

If webOS is not a viable ecosystem for you, why on earth would you choose Android. Between Windows Phone 7 and the upcoming Windows 8 tablets, Microsoft is going to gain major ground next year.

I don't do Windows.

Seriously, who would purchase from BB when there are so many other alternatives selling with discounts/incentives?
Don't get me wrong, i definitely feel HP is now fully on a slippery slope with the future of WebOS. For some reason, it appears every other hardware maker can turn out new products far faster than HP.
They should revisit licensing WebOS...start with Samsung and HTC and let them have at it!

I would bet that once you have the Touch Pad in hand people are wowed by it. But without that they look at the numbers and see that Android or Apple have hundreds of thousands more applications. I'd have picked up a touchpad if they'd beaten the Galaxy Tab to market, and if I knew I'd be able to read Kindle and Sony books on it.

I feel bad for Palm, they had a good set of idea's with WebOS, but how can they possibly compete with Apple or Google now? Also HP has had quality issues in the last several years with their hardware, so I'd have doubts about whether I wanted to actually make a purchase from HP.

WAIT! It was all a misunderstanding. Those Best Buys were closed for an extended period of time for Chinese July 4th. It seems that it's normal for Best Buy employees to go home for a month so they close all of the stores and don't sell any devices. What a relief! That explains everything.

Blast from the past. LOL-worthy.

At the Best Buy close to my place, all the other tablets are placed in a place where every one can see them as soon as they comes in the store but the TouchPad is placed at the back of the hp stand where it is barely visible. You have to go round the other side to see it.
I do blame Best Buy for the poor sales of the TP because they are not trying do so. I spoke with one of the sales reps at the Best Buy about the sales of the TP and he told me that he has only sold one so far and people don't know about it as much. I asked him how he liked it he said he knows less about it and he prefers one of the android ones. And he is one of the most active sales guy in the store.

Did you ask him how many people actually question him about the TouchPad? "If" there is little demand for the product, him knowing a lot about the product wouldn't really change much.

Wow. So I guess we are finally reaching the conclusion. With all the nonsense about specs, advertising, what customers do or dont want, we are now finally about to peel back the skin to reveal the stinking infected reality that might be laying underneath.

The platform either lives, or dies. I'm thankful that its starting to come to a head now.

Once everything is laid out on the table, those of us who are not grasping irrationally to the brand can make a final decision on what to do and where to go for our future mobile ecosystem needs.

I have no empathy for BB. I went to every one anywhere close to me (southern NJ)and none of them had a clue as well as non functioning models to try out. If they are upset about sales of the Touchpad I feel they can only blame themselves. If they were prepared and actually trying to sell the TP instead of trying to sell me an Ipad at EVERY store I went to then they would have a legitimate gripe.

Just bought a TP for $320 today shipped from Amazon.com after their 20% promo (BTS20OFF if you have an Amazon.com Visa). It is about the same price as the Staples deal if you include the tax. I'm not sure if I am going to keep it. I bought a Android Transformer too for 20% off. Sadly, the coupon does not work on iPad or I probably would have gotten that instead of the TP.

I like WebOs. I am still 'rockin' a Sprint Pre that is overclocked. Sadly HP has let the market down. HP should have had dual-core, WebOs, candy bar phones galore out by now. The mobile market drives the tablet market. Not the other way around. Therefore, I am not sure how anyone can blame Best Buy.

Since Sprint is never going to get another WebOS device (thanks for rewarding the early adopters, BTW), I'm jumping to the Galaxy S II when it drops on Sprint this month. I think I may even cancel my TP order from Amazon (even for $320) after reading this forum.

I agree with others...and I never thought I would say this...but HP blew it. WebOs is the best mobile OS and I have used them all. However, you cannot build an ecosystem around a few die-hard fans.

Almost every time I stop in my local Best Buy, there is an Apple employee in the store ready to talk about the iPad and any other Apple product Best Buy carries. I don't think I have ever seen a HP employee in the store let alone a Best Buy employee who has been well trained on the TouchPad.

I say failure on both ends. Both BB and HP should be blamed. I'm what, the 30th+ plus person here who has had lame, unintelligent about webOS experience from BB employees. There is plenty of blame to go around.

It's a sad day as I've left webOS and slowly integrating and transferring all I have done from webOS to Android with my new Photon phone.

It's not fun. Trust me.

Thanks HP for this mess.

Though I am liking the Photon. My infer-red scanner actually works to buy groceries. Yippe!! I could never imagine I could do that on the Pre. haha. I'll get used to it. No more multitasking. Now I know why I miss webOS.

I trudge on.

I realize that the TouchPad selling on woot so soon might be a shock, but woot is owned by Amazon. And woot has sales on Moto Xooms, iPods, iPhones, iPads, etc. all the time. It is simply another direct sales channel for Amazon.

Most telling is the theme of each laying out their well laid plans for getting to the lifeboats. We all saw it coming from HP think beyond. Its not just HP's size - its her speed! Take here to sea Mr. Murdoch. Here's hoping HP has something in the works, nobody wants to see it sink. But from here it looks pretty bad.

say it ain't so. i just got a great deal on a touchpad and if they go for $99 on black friday i'll be a bit peeved. like the early adopters. it's funny how apple they're doing everything. a phone announced 6 months before availability (first iphone) and a tablet (apple did the iphone) that was priced too high gets a price drop shortly after and early adopters are angry so all they get is half the difference in credit. hmmmm.....

My wife bought me a Touchpad for our anniversary. I love the thing, especially now with the new update. But in Hindsight, looking at the Touchpads at the Best Buy store, made me gag. IT was soo slow, the apps were craptastic, HP should have loaded some awesome Hexage games on there. The preview units in the Best Buy stores were horrendous. This is why.

Remember in June of 2010 when us Sprint Pre Launch owners got fed up with the non activity and dropped the Pre to move onto the EVO, with the thought that we'd check out the EVO for a year and see what was up with Palm in that span of time to see if they would come out of rehab and blow our socks off. Many loyalists said we would be sorry because we would be stuck for a year and be dealing with HTC trash and we'd be sorry....


Who's to say Apple didn't give Incentive to BB to be disinterested and yield dividends for the sales margin between the TouchPad and iPad?

The world is corrupt folks!!

all I can add to this is that my distributor has a LOT of touchpads in stock. as far as I can see they have pretty much the same number of them now as they did 3 weeks ago, and I don't see any sign that they're selling fast and re-ordering.