HP tweaks servers, may inhibit backups from meta-doctored phones, but probably won't 31
Wed, 10 Aug 2011 11:33 am EDT 
In an announcement posted on HP’s Developer Center forums, Developer Community Manager Chuq Von Rospach indicated that recent security enhancements to their Cloud Services would prevent devices “reporting invalid Software versions” from using the backup and restore features of webOS.
The update supposedly will affect older devices that have been upgraded to webOS 2.x using the Meta-Doctor. Said Von Rospach:
“If you have used a Homebrew tool (such as meta-doctor) to update your device to webOS 2.x and above (a version not officially supported on your device) in a way that also allows the device to identify itself as having webOS 1.x, the device will no longer be recognized by our Cloud Services as having a valid Software version.”
Of course, the question is who will be affected. According to WebOS Internals chief Rod Whitby, this shouldn’t affect those who have used the Meta-Doctor, for all that is reported to the servers is the “proper” version, e.g. a Sprint Pre that’s been upgraded to 2.1 tells the servers that it’s running 1.4.5. The question is how HP’s new security enhancements will detect the invalid software versions, and what a Meta-Doctored Pre owner is to do? According to HP, you should Doctor your device back to the proper software version, a prospect that we personally find a bit unsettling.
We’ve reached out to HP for comment on the specifics of how this is going to work, but in the meantime we can tell you that our “invalid Software version” devices (including a Sprint Pre 2) are backing up just fine. That could just mean that the security enhancements haven’t been enacted yet, but if there’s a problem on the horizon, we don’t doubt that the homebrew community will be able to find a way around it.
Source: HP webOS Developer Center Forum
31 Comments
How about that for "making it right"
I was about to buy a Pre 2 and convert it yesterday too, I am glad I didn't.
This would have no effect on a Pre2 as it reports as being a Pre2. The only thing a franken Pre2 does, is make Sprint think it is still using the comm board with a valid Sprint ESN.
this is not true. Palm is aware of what phones go w/ what ESNs. A pre/pre+ esn in a pre2 would be a version conflict.
i've already experienced this personally as I run a frankenpre. There were months I couldn't download any apps that were for webOS2-only, eg Music player remix. So anyone metadoctored or frankenpre'd (sprint or vz) can be affected.
*sigh* way to alienate hPalm! Don't support their devices informally, then formally burn them! Arg...
You were running a Franken Pre2 and had problem with 2.x apps? Have not heard of that one before.
This ONLY effects devices that 2.x was never intended for (ie. Pixi and Pre-). The problem is HP is cracking down on "Version conflicts" where you are running one version but reporting you are running another - an obvious security risk that HP has every right to crack down on. On the Pre2 this isn't a problem since you are correctly reporting the version you are running. No problem there and from the way I understand it, the Pre+ reports its correct version also so this should only effect those running the Pre- (and Pixie? Anyone actually doing this?) with 2.x.
Even THEN, all you're losing is backup/restore. There are much better alternatives for backing up and restoring your device via homebrew.
no, it has nothing to do with Pre+ vs Pre- (and there's never been a 2.x upgrade available for Pixi, though apparently there are some test devices floating around).
It's whether the particular carrier/phone combo requires masquerading a 2.1 device as 1.4.x. This includes AT&T, Bell Mobile, and TelCel. Everybody else running 2.1 reports 2.1.
The bottom line is a lot of people are jumping to conclusions about this where currently nothing has changed. Until we get clarification from HP, the sky isn't falling.
Sure HP has "every right to crack down" on this. Then again, everyone who's been trying all they can to stay on webOS by giving their phones the upgrade HP won't have every right to take their money to a platform that won't brush them to the side and pretend they don't exist.
Which alternative are you speaking of? Save/Restore does not do:
* Memos
* Messaging
* Tasks
* Synergy sources
* Purchased apps
Is there another backup app available?
Well, you *can* back (edit: restore) those up, but it's not a user-friendly process.
Well, technically they do but they wont restore. You have those in an html file for reference and/or manually importing. It's a better alternative in relying on HP/Palms restore feature and realizing they didn't backup that data to begin with (happened to me twice now).
Honestly, I didn't think about purchased apps though. That is something the cloud service does a good job at and there isn't a homebrew alternative for as far as I know.
I guess you'll just have to stop buying apps then if you're on a metadoctored device.
I disputed the first paragraph above, and the second paragraph has been disputed. Well done PC readers, tell the apologists/justifiers to take their misinfo elsewhere!
why bother with a pre 2 when the pre 3 is coming out soon... i hope.
I was going to get a pre 2, but it doesn't have an auto focus camera and it's still a 3" screen :(
How about the Pre3 is not coming to Sprint?
Probably because he's on Sprint.
Hey HP. Why you gotta break balls? You won't give me what I want, so I make it, using paid for hardware, I might add, and then you're like, "oh, bee tee double you...eff you"
Hrm, hope everyone flies under the radar with this one. Won't be nearly as big of a deal once new phones *cough* hit the market.
Even if this "breaks" your cloud backups, I would hope most people going to the trouble of meta doctoring these phones is also not relying on HP Profile to be backing up any data.
I have never meta-doctored, but I surely do not rely on my Palm Profile to store any data other than app purchases.
Exactly. The last time 2 devices I've used palm restore I've lost random contacts, memos and tasks. Some were backed up but not others. Completely unreliable.
My AT&T Pre Plus which was until recently running 2.1 would not back up. I had to get a replacement, and Meta-Doctored that replacement to 2.1, and it would not even sign in. Forced to go back to 1.4.5 to sign in and have a working device.
that makes sense, since the AT&T Pre Plus with 2.1 has to masquerade as 1.4.5, the exact scenario HP said will no longer work.
The only other phones this will affect appear to be those on Bell Mobile and TelCel, which also have to masquerade.
All other WebOS 2.1 upgrades properly report as 2.1, so they should be no problem.
What's the deal HP? I thought you liked homebrew. You even dedicated an article to homebrew on Pivot. Then you turn around and show you don't trust homebrew by taking away automatic backup from metadoctored devices?
Is HP bipolar or something?
a webosdev posted that it was currently active and live...well it was chuq himself actually:
webOSdev
Post subject: Re: Important update: devices with unofficially supported webOS
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:38 pm
Site Admin
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:56 am
Posts: 3225
Location: Sunnyvale
cfbauer wrote:
Do we know that HP has already implemented the changes this announcement refers to?
Yes, we have. It is live.
_________________
Chuq Von Rospach
HP Palm webOS Developer Community Manager
pdc@palm.com
one thing i could see is how they decide to limit the devices w/ like "if" commands or whatever...cause currently in the profile Pre is currently listed as: Pre (SPRINT) and os version as: 1.40.50
when i meta-doctored my Pre it showed os as 2.1 but still had me as Pre/Sprint so if they implement an "if" commands that
if device=Pre; if os=1.x.x update/backup=true
if device=Pre; if os=2.x.x update/backup=false
and so on and so forth
My Pre has been great. I bought two spares for parts. Then I bought two Verizon Pre+ units to do just a modest upgrade, and still have some spare parts just in case. I've still got my fingers crossed that something webOS will come to Sprint. But I've already lined up a deal to purchase an AT&T Pre2 (he goes to a Pre3, me to a Pre2), just in case.
I thought I had everything covered until the Pre4 is released. But now, for the first time, I feel that HP has done me wrong. Every time the forums have buzzed with complaints about broken promises, abandoning customer base, lost opportunities, bad decisions, whatever ... I defended HP every single time. But me thinks now I have been bolted, torqued, rotated, plowed, done, trimmed, spiked, impaled, and evacuated. Not pleasant.
I am a lawyer and will be sending a letter to HP's legal team. I expect either no response, or something that amounts to a finger gesture. But I'm going to do it anyway. Not nasty, just making an argument that, based on our course of dealing and other factors, I suggest that this action is inappropriate. It provides no meaningful benefit to them, but results in substantial costs to others. Costs that arise because the device mods now banned by HP were made by HP's customer base in reliance on indications from HP that those mods were just fine.
If you would like to tag onto my letter (strength in numbers, etc.), please PM or e-mail me. [my screen name][at][aol-dot-com]. No need to send me info.
Really, how is someone trying to back up their phone a security issue?
So some of us have been waiting patiently for years for what was promised (document editing, Flash, etc.) that was supposed to be coming...
And then HP decides that the early adopters get no upgrades. When people manage to get something to work, expending their hard earned cash to cobble together a FrankenPre, HP pulls the rug out on backup. Oh and btw, once upon a time, there was something called the Palm desktop which provided excellent backup, restore and synch capabilities. I honestly don't see how the current state of affairs could be called an improvement. If going to the cloud means a vendor can pull the plug when they want to stick it to you... but I digress.
We early users are waiting for an upgrade that doesn't look like it is coming. (ATT sucks where I need to use it so a Pre from the Blue Death Star is worthless to me.) A while back, I recall that Jon Rubinstein was interviewed and asked about his time at Next, the computer company Steve Jobs started. He said that they were trying do great hardware and great software but they ran out of time.
Deja vu.
You're running out of time HP, and steps like this don't help. For a lot of, what would have been insanely loyal customers, time has already run out.
What are you thinking? Are you thinking that you've successfully converted PreCentral into a Touchpad website so you can **** over the phone customers with impunity?
I know that I'm starting to think that I should find a company that wants to support its customers. All its customers.
bad international support, bad overall support, no office editing sw, no navigation with all european maps, no synchonization from now - goodbye HP, I sell my Palm Pre and I buy WP7 device.
WebOS Community: Why HP, why do you continue to push us away? We just want to love you.
HP: Because, **** you, that's why.
I was using an AT&T Pre+ with 1.4.5. Then I bought an unlocked Pre 2 and therefore had to move onto 2.1.0. The Pre 2 screen then got smashed. Yes, the so called Gorilla glass screen. Thus, I was forced to go back to using the AT&T Pre+, for I did not see any point in getting another Pre 2 with the Pre 3 just around the corner. Didn't Leo Apotheker say something about "release within weeks of announcement"? Anyhow, so back to the Pre + it was. But then, HP would not allow me to sign into the AT&T 1.4.5 with my 2.1.0 profile. Therefore, I had no choice but to meta doctor the AT&T Pre + to 2.1.0. Do keep in mind, personally I preferred 1.4.5 to 2.1.0 and was not really thrilled to be forced into using 2.1.0. But then, this was only makeshift until I got the Pre 3 and atleast this way my profile was still safely being backed up and would be ready for the Pre 3, whenever it is that HP finally deems it fit to allow us the privilege to buy the Pre 3. Except, now HP decides to gyp us once again. I just checked and my phone has not backed up since July 12th and even running a manual backup only results in a "Backup failed" message.
Time and time again, it seems that HP finds ways to stab their most loyal customers. Even if HP had to do this, couldn't they have waited until the Pre 3 was released and one had the option to move their profile onto it. At the very least, should they not have atleast given advance notice before making these changes.
SHAME ON YOU HP.
My doctored Sprint Pre started locking up on me a couple of days ago due to "something" causing a memory overflow. I tracked it down to the backup program and remembered this article.
Long story short, I turned off backup and allowed it to delete the old dataset. I then turned backup back on and everything backed up just fine and the memory issue went away.