The HP Veer Gamble 83
The big question about the HP Veer: will there be a market for it? HP certainly thinks so - in addition to the obvious evidence that they went to the trouble to develop the tiny, powerful smartphone, they also assured us that their market testing indicated that there is a large market of "smartphone intenders" who are smitten with the Veer even when lined up against the iPhone and the Droid 2.
The worry, however, is that we've heard this story before. The KIN ONE, the Pixi, and any one of the low-end Motorola Android phones have all failed to find significant traction in the market. The reasons have different from device to device, but the story generally includes: Data plans that are too expensive, bad marketing, too little carrier support, difficulty competing with the $99 iPhone, underpowered hardware, lack of sex-appeal for the target market, and plenty more.
In fact, the big question is whether it's even possible to launch a "low end smartphone" anymore. I am a little worried that Palm is still smitten with the success they had with the Centro - a low end Palm OS device that finally made good on Palm's attempt to get at the consumer market that they originally tried to hit with the "mobile accomplisher" Treo 680.
Of all of those devices, I do want to believe that the Veer is best-positioned to succeed and that it does have a chance to, but the odds against it are significant. Read on.
In terms of form factor: I said in the PalmCast last night that they need to have a phone that's as compelling as the RAZR was. I don't think the Veer quite reaches that level, but truth be told it's an incredibly fun device and the hardware feels solid - in fact I prefer the Veer's keyboard to the keyboard on the Pre 3.
In terms of power: the Veer runs a new Qualcomm processor that feels quite snappy - in my short time with it it genuinely felt as fast and powerful as the Pre 2. Although the non-removable battery is quite small, HP contends that the Qualcomm processor is low-power enough to last through a day. I still have doubts about that magnetic connector, which will serve triple duty as a charger, data sync point, and adapter-home for a 3.5mm headset jack - that last is especially disappointing.
In terms of marketing: it's an open question, but HP made sure to point out that we have never seen a webOS device (or PalmOS device, for that matter) that will get the kind of huge marketing push that HP has planned for their new lineup. They used the term "Rolling thunder" to describe the scope of this push.
In terms of pricing: we'll see, but to my mind anything over $50 on contract is too much.
In terms of carrier support: we'll see again. The story of Verizon cutting the knees out from the KIN ONE by denying it a cheaper data plan is scary. The idea that the market HP is targeting will be willing to shell out an extra $30 per month for unlimited data is an open question - if HP and their carrier partners are able to craft a lower-cost option it will be a big deal. That carrier, by the way, is almost surely AT&T in the US, as the Veer is HSPA+ only.
In other words, there are a lot of reasons the Veer could fail. HP may need to hit every single aspect of this launch and this product out of the park in order to ensure anything other than a failure. We've seen plenty of companies bewitched by their own market research (cf. KIN and the Pixi). Hopefully the Veer won't be yet another miss in the attempt to capture the market of people who are intimated by smartphones but still want the functionality they offer.
83 Comments
I'd buy this... being soo small, its cool looking. And being super fast aint bad either. Too bad this is probably ATT.
The question isn't whether or not this will sell. Its whether this phone will sell more than a slab-styled phone would've.
herp derp
Fail...strike 1 Hp.
They are way past 3 already. out times 6
then why are you still checkin up on precentral...
So I can laugh at the pretards
lol so a few people need a life...
Watch and weep as HP whoops some Butt !
"Hopefully the Veer won't be yet another miss in the attempt to capture the market of people who are intimated by smartphones but still want the functionality they offer."
>"still want the functionality they offer."
>"functionality"
This doesnt even have a headphone jack!! AND a tiny screen! HP failed hard this time around
This from the tech specs:
-------------------------------
Headphone jack
Magnetic connector with 3.5mm stereo headset adapter included
-------------------------------
Also lists Pandora as an app & the Amazon MP3 store as an app for music. Also has their own music app.
My neice would love this phone--if it comes out on Sprint.
Its GSM only so your niece won't be getting one on Sprint.
is it the same CPU That's in the G2? If so it should be a decent handset. Locking to HSPA+ though is wildly disappointing. Someone clearly wasn't paying attention to the Galaxy Launch...
I reckon Palm will inevitably stop supporting the Pixi sometime soon, and if they do one of two things will happen with Pixi users: either they'll willingly move to the Veer, or get angry and jump ship to Android or whatever.
I can't see there being hoards of new users going for this when the Pre3 is sat right next to it though. Unless the price difference is big enough.
That is a really good question worth asking. I'm really surprised that HP did not unveil an updated lineup of pixi, pre, and slab sizes. Everyone has their favorite form-factor. Personally, i really liked the Pixi form-factor, which reminded me of the Treo. I prefer a physical keyboard, but I'm not sold on sliders or their girth. I really hope the Veer form-factor is not a sign that HP wants One Slider to Rule Them All.
I reckon PALM is dead
This phone will hit the market window like a bird.
More like a fly on the windshield
you all think like men. honestly, i am completely in love with this device. while i love the screen of the pre3, the veer fits PERFECTLY in my hands and in my pocket..purse..bra. its a fast smartphone that a lot of women can appreciate without looking feminine (i hated the razor etc).
I guess you hate big **** too
classy.
Not that it would apply to you.
vivajay69 - clearly you are a total d-bag with a tiny pee-pee, please go back to your mom's basement.
I apologize to all for feeding the little troll, but I have very little restraint for little annoying twerps like this.
i love this ^^ =)
lol
I think the phone is fine. The fully functional webOS may be able to justify a data plan. I see this as a phone that can fit in a multi-line family plan, so a teen can use a more power phone, without having to activate a separate data plan.
This is a good phone to be sold unlocked or prepaid, so people who want to go cheap can use Wifi only for data.
the negative comments remind me of the same comment made of the centro, and that worked out well for them.
what then need:
low cost. $100 good $50 great.
a good data plan. one reason the kin died is because of its lack of plans.
you didn't need a data plan with the Centro, at least not on sprint. So people used it as a smart phone and for texting without. Smart phone doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be online as it has a lot of functions that are nice to have that a normal phone doesn't have
I think the future is very limited for the veer. Why on earth didn't they do a slab form factor? I think other companies have sold a few of those. Seems like there might be a market for them. Just sayin'
What exactly is the headphone solution here? current pixi plus user. love that form factor but it's just too damn slow so definitely looking for a hardware. not a huge fan of the pre-factor. so the veer... seriously, no headphone jack?
There's supposed to be an adapter included with the Veer that would be used with a standard 3.5mm set of headphones.
Awesome. Proprietary adapter dongles are FANTASTIC, especially when you lose/forget them and need to charge up.
Form-factor-wise, this is a step backwards from the antique Pixi, in terms of screen size, battery size, and a lack of standard ports.
exactly, especially with a small battery. "hey, think I can use your phone charger...oh wait...nevermind, I forgot my phone dongle thingy at home"
100% agree on your Pixi point. My better half owns a Sprint Pre. She'll upgrade to the better specs of the Pre2 (if it comes to Sprint!?). I'm a Sprint Pixi user. Still waiting for Wi-Fi, for Pete's sake. And, I'll upgrade to... the Veer, I guess (Oh what's that you say? It's not CDMA? By Odin's beard!) My last phone was a Samsung, that also required an adapter for charging and connecting head phones. Can i tell you how often i forgot my headphone adapter at home? Even when I had the adapter handy, the weight of the cord on the adapter pulled down my lighter headphone cord. Sometimes the adapter popped out when i turned my head. It just didn't work. So, I finally bought stereo bluetooth headphones. Maybe that's how HP will upsell the Veer.
This on AT&T over an iPhone 4? This summer, the 16GB iPhone 4 will probably be lowered to $100 on contract when the iPhone 5 comes out.
There is a slab market... A flooded-to-the-gills slab market. While I'd have liked athird form factor, slab isn't necessarily the way to go.
At least HP had the sense to not emasculate it completely with a name like Pixi. The Veer isn't for me, but I can see there being a market for it.
In my opinion, the ONLY single tangible differentiating factor for an "entry" smartphone like this is if it can have a competitive, lower cost data option (i.e. 500mbs for $15). This sort of option does not exist yet(unless you want to argue Att's very minimalist $15 200mb plan, or VZW's short lived 150mb option), so those chances look slim so far. The hardware pricing speculation holds no weight anymore because of sellers like Best Buy. You could have the Veer priced at $50 on contract, Pre 3 at $150 on contract at the ATT corporate store, but then a third party retailer like Best Buy will constantly have the high-end(Pre 3) devices on sale for that same $50 dollars or even for free, then the Veer cannot compete at it's $50 dollar price point. We saw this with the Droid Incredible throughout the Holiday 2010-2011 season(Best Buy had it for free week after week).
Great idea! Let's take a Pre form factor that looks dated and has a reputation for being cheaply built, then shrink it so it has a screen even smaller than the Pixi! BRILLIANT! Sorry HP, but this will end up Kin pt. 2.
Why get one of these as an entry level phone when a prepaid Optimus V on Virgin costs $130 with no contract at all, a cheap rate plan, and has over 100,000 apps available for it (while the Veer has an app store full of tumbleweeds)?
Sorry Palm, but this has fail written all over it. Whenever I hear "market testing indicated" in reference to product design I cringe. You are getting paid to develop products for a reason. Market test responders have no idea how to make a product. You need to start thinking, what is the awesome product I want, not what frankenstein monster can market testing create.
If you did that, we would have a 4" slate today as well, which would make a ton of people on here a lots happier.
The targets I can see for this are teens, prepaid services, and travelers that want to swap to nation local prepaid rather then do international roaming.
The only way this phone makes sense is if they are in discussions with carriers to do a $10-$15 data plan that comes with it. Who knows if HP has any sway with the carriers though.
If this is the phone for the teen market, I see it as a failure. The lack of an easily used headphone jack so that they can listen to their music and the lack of a micro USB port so that they can put music on the phone is a huge failure. Very cool but it's so small but if it really is for the teen market I don't think they understand the teen market very well.
OK I like what I see but I am very upset with HP. Didn't HP CEO Leo Apotheker say “HP will stop making announcements for stuff it doesn’t have. When HP makes announcements, it will be getting ready to ship.” By the time we see the Pre 3 and TouchPad will be 5 months. The buzz will be long gone. Sounds like the Pre all over.
Yeah, HP/Palm seem to be trying REALLY hard to piss off as many current and potential customers as possible. The Veer, the Pre 3 and the TouchPad all look like "okay, meh" devices. There was so much hype and so much anticipation. I feel like they don't listen to their user community at all. I thought yesterday we'd hear about at least 3 new phones that would be ready to ship in weeks on multiple carriers.
Why have two big screens? I want a small phone and a tablet. Touch to share and sms and video calling through the tablet makes a big screen phone absolutely obsolete most of the time. Veer and touchpad is a perfect match!
because you're always going to be carrying around a 10" tablet
i gotta say, if this phone had a flash and HD recording, i would be sold. I love the size of the original Pre, not to sure i would like the Pre3, but i do like the HD recording of it. The Veer might not be such a bad seller this spring.
No camera flash either, right?
After seeing the engadget video of this device, I LOVE it. My wife currently has a Pixi Plus and I have a Droid 2. I love the form factor and OS on her phone. This Veer is even smaller (closed), but not as thin. Very nice for stuffing in a pocket or purse.
The problem with all the WebOS devices at this point though isn't form factor, device specs, or OS. It's Apps. For my wife it's not as big a deal, but I can't switch now without a major change in the app situation.
Man o man, what I wouldn't give for a simple todo/grocery app that can sync across devices (through the cloud). There's several on Android (even syncing to iOS), but non of them have plans for WebOS. That's what needs to change!
John
Check out Done!, a Toodledo client that syncs todo's through the cloud. It's in the webOS app catalog now.
I like it. Package it saying that mobile hotspot is included in the data plan price and it makes a wonderful compliment to the wifi Touchpad. That way you have a small phone that takes up less space but is still extremely functional, a backup data connection, and you have the screen size with the Touchpad when you need it.
Note: I also have to carry a BB for work so the smaller my WebOS phone can be the better.
Note 2: Really angry these products are not ready to ship as the CEO said. Day 1 Pre still hanging in there!!!!!
Might be a device that could be dedicated to gym use (heart rate, tunes, counter/timer) - except for the lack of a std headphone jack.
Maybe you're supposed to buy one of each (Veer+Pre3). If so, I would need the ability to switch between devices with minimal hassle/no overlapping fees.
In my country (Mexico) the Sony Ericsson Xperia X10 Mini sells really well, and since the Veer is the webOS version of this Android phone, I'm sure that it will be well accepted here.
Bluetooth headphones?
Using bluetooth headphones would certainly eliminate a stress point/entry point for liquids on the phone that's been known to cause problems for many devices. The magnetic adapter would disconnect when yanked hard enough that could cause damage with a traditional headphone jack, just like Apple's magnetic power cord for their laptops.
If it's completely sealed, it could be a great phone for talking to the gym, beach, etc.
It's a slider. Forget taking it to the beach!
Certainly blue tooth compatible. This from the tech specs:
Wireless connectivity7
Wi-Fi 802.11b/g/n with WPA, WPA2, WEP, 802.1X authentication; Bluetooth® wireless technology 2.1 + EDR with A2DP stereo Bluetooth support; Wi-Fi router functionality for up to five devices using HP mobile hotspot.
i have a 14 yr old teen daughter. asked her if she also wants a pre+ like mine. she went and got the htc incredible instead. i asked her why. she said the pre is too tiny - keyboard to small.
good luck hp
I think some are looking at this phone the wrong way. It's not necessarily entry level/cheap ... it's just small - for people who don't want a giant phone. My wife would probably like it.
Veer should sell. It's a unique compact size, seems better built and it's fast.(unlike Pixi and stock Pre)
So they'll take a gamble on the Veer but a 4.X" slab is not even on the radar?
Hello????????
I agree with Oma.
this is a companion to the tablet.
Why'd they make it black? Take a look at the Centro. Many colors, appeals to many different markets.
I love it! Definitely gonna buy if it's under $300 unlocked.
Don't look at the Veer as just a phone. It is part of an integrated system. It is minimalist and elegant. Paired with a Touchpad (the system), why carry around a 4" screen when you have a 10" screen for anything that requires more. One data plan, linked devices, cloud sharing. Heck, the Veer might not come out of the pocket when the Touchpad is handy. And when you have the Veer out solo, it still has full smartphone functionality. Think of all the mobile hotspots sold. Why buy a data only device when the Veer does that and is a phone? This is a device to sell Touchpads.
I agree with Oma and the rest. I like a small phone, but it isn't very usable as a "smart" phone, but pair this with the Touchpad and we're in business. As long as the phone feeds the Touchpad for wireless access, I would have been sold! Why am I not sold? I'm on Sprint and the idiots aren't making a CDMA version.
Right...and the ONLY way the Veer would do okay is people don't have to pay for a separate data plan. Sprint is the obvious choice if you wanted to add a Veer for your kids on a family plan and not have to add an additional data package. HP is playing this ALL wrong.
I just saw AT&T only...well, my niece would have loved the phone...
Sprint looks like it is committing to the RIM Playbook. T-Mobile is Samsung Galaxy Tab. If AT&T is the unique partner for Touchpad partnered with the Veer, it would make sense. Exclusive deals for some period of time seem to be the norm. (Samsung's simultaneous release of multiple Galaxy S devices is really almost unique and remarkable.)
Hopefully, the Pre3 will have hot spot connectivity with the Touchpad, then the vendor won't matter as much. Vendor will matter to people looking to own just the tablet I suppose, but part of its appeal is working with the phones.
there are a lot of valid points in this article and in the comments but there is one glaring omision. Does no one remember the BLACKBERRY PEARL? Honestly people. Tiny awful keyboard (though way better than T9), small screen. Weaker cpu. A cut rate blackberrythat required a blackberry data plan for a lot of people. They where HUGE! I know people have palm on the brain but the centro is barely relevant. At it's best all of palms phones probably didn't match the pearl, let alone all other BB models in sales. And the kin was not a smart phone at all. I know you see a small screen and think it's useless but 99% of the stuff I do on my pre minus I could do on the veer. And it's waaaay faster from what i've seen. I'm going to be a pre3 day 1 purchaser. But if I could justify the expense of a touchpad I'd rather the veer to go with it.
Anyone who has not actually played with the Veer will be incredibly surprised when they do. I had the privilege of trying it out tonight at the HP event in San Francisco and this phone blew me away. When I saw it on the pictures this morning I thought "This has gotta be some sort of sick joke, right?" but wait till you actually try this phone.
It's incredibly snappy, the hardware is VERY sturdy, the keyboard may be small but is WAY nicer to type on than the Pre's keyboard and it's amazingly cute looking.
I held a Pre 3 for a bit as well. While it's a beast in specs and really nice in just about every aspect I'm seriously not yet sure whether I'll get the Pre 3 or the Veer as a companion to my guaranteed-buy TouchPad.
Trust me, this little phone is lovely.
The treo was a success because you DIDN'T need a data plan to go along with it. you could have a Treo and have it on sprint for less than $40/month with no data plan. That's gone, no one (majority here) is going to buy or take this phone for free and sign their life away to a data/phone plan for 79.99/month and that's on Sprint which this clearly is not coming out on.
That's my belief on why all these low end phones end up failing. You can get a high end phone for $150-200 after all the discounts and whatnot. When you are required to have a data plan that's going to cost you $$$ over the course of your contract I think most people feel that they should make the small initial investment up front to make that 2 year contract seem like a good deal.
Sprint Everything Data is $69.99/month
CricKet unlimited plan for smartphones is $55/month.
Wow the pre 4 arrives with the pre 3. At least have a different form factor.
We put the word "gamble" in headlines when we see a dud
The Veer looks like a very interesting device. I'm disappointed that it's HPSA+ only.
I hate AT&T's lousy service where I work and live.
I'm really happy with Sprint. (Even though I've jumped to Android for a while, I am liking what I see in the Pre3 if they can get it on Sprint.
There are a lot of low end smart phones out there, and there is a huge market for them. If you don't believe me, count the number of blackberry's you see the next time you go to the airport. Most of the customer's with this type of phone don't even use the headphone jack. In fact, I rarely use my headphone jack, and if I had something like this I would just keep the adapter with the headphones. I think this would be a great phone for a teen who doesn't mind accessorizing and wants a very small smart phone and full keyboard, or for the legions of adults who want to text, have internet, games, etc and have an easy to use small and SIMPLE phone to do it. WebOS and windows mobile are the only smart phone OS' that I have seen that I could teach my mom how to use in a matter of minutes and she didn't start texting until she had a full keyboard. I would never buy an EVO because it is too big. It would die a horrible death in my pocket and I haven't carried a phone on my hip since the Nokia days. In fact most smart phones are too big for me, but that doesn't mean they should stop making the big ones because there are people out there who want the large screen. We have to remember this phone, like the bigger smart phones, fits a niche and that niche is bigger than a lot of people give it credit for so even if you wouldn't buy the phone, that doesn't mean a bunch of other people wouldn't. We are a small community, webOS needs a larger audience if it is going to get the recognition we all know it deserves and this is one step in that direction.
After waiting this long for a new Palm phone, I am very UNDERwhelmed by the line up.
I mean what is it with that physical keyboard? Would it be so hard to have the option of an onscreen keyboard?
EPIC. FAIL. I am willing to concede that there are those that think a tiny phone with a tiny screen are great. After all, they still make 15" monitors. It's just that there's not enough of them to constitute a market.
I am willing to give the Pre3 the benefit of the doubt, even though it seems like HP could have really made a much neater device. I will probably buy one. But to be honest, I believe HP/Palm will fail in the market with these 2 devices.
The pads are cool and interesting. The phones, especially the Veer? not so much.
Wow no I LOVE THIS PHONE!!!! Its a mini pre!!! What i think would be good for this phone is prepaid phone service.
I think im gonna so buy the unlocked GSM dev version of this device!
I'm not sure about that magnetic connector. I don't see why they couldn't have had a 3.5" headphone jack and microUSB like everyone else. I get the idea of a "break-away" magnetic connector that would prevent damage to the standard connectors but I also feel that a proprietary connector is ancient history. It reminds me of when Palm put out the Treo 755p with MiniSD and NOBODY was using that form factor anymore.
The most GLARING FAIL about the Veer, the Pre 2, the Pre 3, and the TouchPad is the lack of internal storage and lack of microSD expansion. There's just NO WAY I'd waste any of my "precious" 8GB/16GB on HD video and I hate only being able to have a few albums of music on my device.
Some people are saying that we should be carrying multiple devices and not expecting one device to do it all. I couldn't disagree more. I want my SmartPhone to be the center of everything I do. I want it to be the only device I need for staying connected with the world and staying entertained and staying productive. I am MUCH more excited about the Atrix 4G and associated peripherals than I am about anything HP announced yesterday. It's just too bad that I've been a loyal Palm/Sprint customer since webos20090606. I am really sick of being jerked around by HP/Palm. Actually, I've been a loyal Palm/Sprint customer since Treo 650.
If the Pre3 comes to Sprint for $150 or less, I'll consider it.
The ONLY purpose of the Veer should be to flood the market with WebOS devices and build a customer base for WebOS apps. They should give that phone away with new contracts or at most charge $50.