iOS 5: Great artists steal [the competition] | webOS Nation
 
 

iOS 5: Great artists steal [the competition] 120

by Derek Kessler Mon, 06 Jun 2011 3:49 pm EDT

So Steve Jobs and Apple today previewed iOS 5 at WWDC in San Francisco. As with all iOS releases, it’s an impressive one, but we can’t help but look at a lot of what they added to the OS as being copied from other mobile competitors.

Notifications were an interesting one, where Apple lifted from both Android and webOS. iOS 5 will have a drop-down notification drawer from Android, and lock-screen notifications from webOS. Unlike webOS, however, you can act on those notifications without unlocking the phone, and in the exact opposite of webOS, you swipe the notification to act on it in lock screen, instead of tapping. It’s bound to be confusing for anybody who uses both devices – swipe to activate in iOS, swipe to dismiss in webOS. We might be biased, but we’re thinking that the webOS way makes more sense. At least iOS has finally has ditched the modal notifications, and we’re very happy for them.

Android and iOS aren’t alone in the borrowed-from camp: iOS 5 lifts from Windows Phone 7 as well. You might be wondering what they might be taking, as Windows Phone is about as different from iOS as a mobile OS can be, but here it is: the camera button. While the iPhone 4 hasn’t magically gained a new camera button (and no iPhone 5 was announced), the volume up button will be able to be used in iOS 5 to snap a photo instead of having to rely on the on-screen shutter button. This isn’t quite as great as Windows Phone’s actual camera button (which you can just press and hold to turn on the phone and launch straight to the camera), but it’s nice to have. Apple has added a camera button to the iOS lock screen, so you can hit the power button and tap that, which isn’t bad. That said, we’re torn between amused and galled that Apple implemented this in iOS after chastising one of their app developers for implementing similar functionality in their own app. And yes, there’s a patch for both the volume buttons and for horizontal unlock launching the camera for webOS.

The big one that we’re surprised it took so long to copy steal implement is cable cutting. iOS 5 rolls in the over-the-air “delta” (only the updated code) updates system of webOS and the PC-free setup of every modern non-Apple smartphone OS. Plus automatic back-ups to the cloud on a daily basis, where they've taken what webOS does and made it better: iOS 5 backs up your apps, music, photos, app data, and more. There’s also Apple’s new “iMessage” service which is essentially BlackBerry Messenger for iPhones, iPads, and iPod Touch. It works over data, has read notifications and “X is typing” messages. It’s BBM on the iPhone.

iOS 5 does have plenty of new features, including the all-encompassing music-, photos-, email-, documents-, apps-syncing iCloud. Granted, there are a number of services that iCloud emulates in individual concept, but the seamless nature of iCloud, not to mention the fact that it handles all of that automatically, puts it ahead of the others in the pack. iCloud is impressive, and right now the only competitors that stand a chance of approaching its comprehensive status are Google and HP. Google has a head start, but suffers the problem of all its services operating somewhat independently within Google, not to mention not having a popular and rapidly growing desktop OS to tie into. HP, on the other hand, has been snapping up companies left and right to complement their purchase of Palm. We’re expecting to see some of that integrated with webOS 3.0, but HP still has a ways to go.

Apple has also managed some impressive Twitter integration in iOS 5. Not only can you log in once and give Twitter access to all of your apps (on an app-by-app approval basis, we’re sure), but a number of core apps have also received Twitter integration. For example, you can now send a Twitter post about what you’re reading straight from Safari, no third partiy apps or patches needed. There’s also Safari Reading Lists (think Instapaper or Read It Later), tabbed browsing in Safari for iPad, basic photo manipulation and selective optimizations when taking said photos, among many other things.

Head over to our iOS sister site TiPb for the full scoop, and keep in mind that quote that Steve Jobs borrowed from Pablo Picasso: "Good artists copy, great artists steal." Apple’s managed to pick some of the best features of their competitors’ products, and where they could tried some improvements. Whether that results in a better OS is still up in the air, as iOS 5 isn’t due until sometime this fall… see, HP’s not the only one that does ambiguous seasonal launch timeframes.

120 Comments

You can act on some of those notifications when the phone is locked on webOS. Well, I guess it's better said you can act on dashboards on the lock screen. For example, the Grooveshark app dashboard still works for the player buttons when the screen is locked.

And, nice one on this line:

"see, HP's not the only one that does ambiguous seasonal launch timeframes."

Now iPhone owners get to experience "in the coming months" too!

3 months isn't that long though.

Are you sure that it's only 3 months? We are still in "early spring" ;)

Until fall might be even until November.

it will be in september when iphone5 and ipods launch.

They said the Fall. That could mean December.

It's Apple, not HP/Palm, Fall is September

"Fall" for the iOS 4 update for the iPad meant November. So Apple isn't better than HP/Palm.

ipad update had come in October last time so i am thinking October.

Fall starts September 23 and ends on December 22.

Gives devs enough time to come up with another feature for Apple to steal from them.

youre being a complete baby.

It's an ambiguous seasonal launch timeframe, not a confirmation that they will launch in September.

It's interesting that webOS fans, who have been waiting for months and months (and months), would have anything to say about a company that has a very good (not perfect) track record for delivering what they say, when they say.

When Apple says "coming soon" people ask "when is soon?"

When Palm/HP says "coming soon" people ask "is it really coming?" before they get around to wondering when "soon" might be.

that's the difference between the two companies. when Apple says it, yeah, itll come and people will wait. when HP says it, people start doubting, whining, crying, complaining...why?

because one company delivers on promises, the other has yet to prove itself of that.

At least Apple is providing the upgrade to EVERY iPhone still sold on the market. HP on the other hand is not updating Pre's and Pixi's that can still be bought on some carriers.

I still think the carriers have more to do with that than HP. Just like people with Pres in Mexico are still on 1.4(.1?). They did release the doctor for one of the devices on one of the carriers which gave Internals something to work with for us. Plus they did donate a server to Internals as well.

iOS- 5 takes the game away from H/P. H/P really needs to sit down and say are we going to support webOS, if yes, hire more people for them. Apple has 35K employees, majority working on iPhone and Ipad, how many employees are on webOS. Plus rethink deadlines, deliver products on time and in timely manner. H/P needs to get up from behind and make sure TP-2 competes with IP-3 and not IP-2

Thing is lot of things are good on webOS, but the same things are like perfect on iOS. H/P just need to step up their game, to take webOS to next level of hardware and software perfection

Meh. I still find myself reaching for my original Pre more often than my iPad 1. I don't really like much of what iOS has to offer. Just a preference I think.

So do I. My wife's pad from work, is normally only used by me when I desire a larger screen for surfing and can't be bothered to sit by the computer.

see, this is great marketing and great features on a solid platform:

http://www.apple.com/ios/ios5/gallery.html#video-ios

HP, get it together. Apple just beat you to it... AGAIN

HP needs to release their $#!+ NOW...or at least well before iOS5 hits!

horizontal unlock for camera patch works only 25% of the time.

Do I smell lawsuits from Google, HP or Microsoft?

Maybe when Apple sues Google for pinch to zoom

But thanks to Palm's patent portfolio, HP has a ton of patents on smartphone technologies which it can use against Apple which predate pinch to zoom. That's the current state of patent law, mutual assured destruction assures that no one wins if they are deployed.

Nobody will sue over this UI because they all "steal" from each other. And they all have big patent portfolios to counter-sue anyway.

Also many of these patents would eventually be invalidated by a court if they went all the way.
Such cases are usually settled after everybody showed their cards and the layers hammered out a deal.

Out of the 4, Google has done the most stealing. Thanks to Eric Schmidt they had inside knowledge on the iPhone and copied as much as they could. They also copied from webOS from what I can see, although I've never used a webOS device, but it seems so.

What can HP sue for? Apple hasn't taken anything from them.

As for notifications on the home screen, this wasn't invented by Palm - Windows Mobile had it from the get go, so if anyone is going to sue for info on the home screen, it will be Microsoft suing HP.

I wonder if webOS 3.0 will come with new features or will it be all old features just coded in Enyo.

I expect new features. As much as I see it, they are just adding a few new features to webOS 2.x while doing most of the work in 3.x and simultaneously working on getting 3.x to their phones as fast as possible.

One particularly nice new feature I like in webOS 3.0 is the notifications up top.

Isn't that just for the Touchpad? When the Pre 3 & Veer get 3.0 are notifications moving to the top?

Nobody knows right now.

i doubt it, the top bar on the phones doesnt have the real estate to support that and still have function to it. that's just for the touchpad.

some people (for people read politicians) could use less twitter integration in their electronic devices

well played, sir. Well played, indeed!

You, sir, win the internet.

hp is not going to sue. the more hp sits around thinking their leverage is going to get them anywhere the more features all these other os's come up with. i dont understand how such a big corporate giant could **** up so much when it comes to competing in the mobile market. hopefully by the time the iphone 5 comes out it will be as good or even better than webos so that it wont be that hard for all of us faithfuls to transition. Pre 3 in the coming months.........

Keep in mind this big corporate giant only seriously started getting into mobile less than a year ago, where Apple, Google, and Microsoft have been developing for mobile for years now.

Perhaps they have only been in the game for 1 year, but they didnt start from the ground up, they bought Palm. This should have significantly reduced if not eliminated their learning curve.

the time issue is no excuse. how many things did apple change in three years? yeah a lot

I wonder if Samsung can cite Steve Jobs saying "Good artists copy, great artists steal" in any of the lawsuit hearings that they engage in with Apple.

OBJECTION!

overruled

The iOS5 update looked really good until it got tagged with a Fall release. A lot of it is catch up because Apple has been focused on launches of Apple revenue generating platforms (iAd, iBooks, etc) over things that make the platform more usable for their customers. The only thing that really was a surprise to me was their take on BlackBerry Communicator.

Count me in as one of the people who believe that HP is launching as much platform as device when the TouchPad/webOS 3.0 hits the market. They might actually be able to sell some of these services for 3 months before they arrive to iOS devices this Fall. And with that they will not have to dwell on specifications and can focus on what you can do on a TouchPad that you can't on other devices. If I'm right then that's a winner for HP and the webOS community.

Are you serious? iOS 5 is being released today to developers that can use it on working devices. It'll go gold in a few months with many apps updated at launch along with new iphone hardware that will draw huge lines.

This is nothing like HP's "in the coming months" garbage while not even having existing devices or apps to consider.

Yes, I am serious. Let's compare Apples to Apples. Apple's last OS release was 12 months ago. That software was shown off 3 months prior to that. So, in essence Apple's been working on iOS5 for 15 months and will not release it for another 3 which is an 18 month release cycle.

By comparison, HP only took possession of Palm the end of last July. So, the combined company has been at this for 10 months. Along the way they had to integrate the company and re-evaluate everything at the Palm because evaluations done during due diligence are never as complete as one would like. Since then, they've lost people, added people, integrated units into the legacy Palm and had to re-establish a dying brand.

So, to get things at the point that you'd like - where Apple is today with iOS5 we should be able to spot HP another 8 months. Problem is the market is moving forward - quickly. I think that you'll be surprised at how far that HP comes in that 10 months with webOS 3.0. Not just in the software operating system but in the ecosystem that surrounds it.

My question to you is are you kidding because it seems to be taking HP almost half the time to release something new and exciting over what Apple is doing - releasing rehashes of the competition's software in twice the time.

"So, to get things at the point that you'd like - where Apple is today with iOS5 we should be able to spot HP another 8 months. "

Huh? HP is going to produce an OS that backs over 200 million devices over the next 8 months? And what exactly is Apple going to be doing over the next 8 months?

Here's an example of that blistering HP speed you speak of: It has taken Palm/HP so long to clone the iPad that they haven't been able to beat the iPad 2 to market. Yup...pretty zippy that HP is.

Speaking of advances in OS, what ever happend to Mojo Messaging Serivce (push notifications, etc.) that was promised (and was supposedly in beta) back in 2009?

Yeah, HP is only taking "half the time to release something new and exciting." Maybe that's why Apotheker keeps stressing that this is a marathon (you know, because they are running sooooo fast!) /smh

Ace Ventura: "Ho ho ho Hooooooooooooo! Fiction can be fun, but I find the reference section a little more enlightening."

Go ahead, keep blaming HP for what was essentially all Palm's fault.

HP has done nothing but great things for WebOS.

I'm not blaming HP for anything actually. Just offering a counterpoint to the the notion that they are somehow moving at such a pace that in 8 months webOS will conquer the world.

And while you say HP has done "nothing but great things for webOS" I'd suggest that not everything they've done for webOS has been great.

" Yeah, HP is only taking "half the time to release something new and exciting." "

Since when is catching up with the competition "new and exciting"?

I could see exciting to some degree when IOS users get excited about the stupid modal notifications going away - and, well, it's new for IOS.

So I guess you were kinda right - new and exciting.

sigh

I'm with The Reptile. HP has covered a lot of ground since the acquisition. He's talking ecosystem. You're just trying to compare the tablets. Which you are completely correct about. Its pretty apparent that iOS5 is not innovation, but more of matching what else has been out there. HP is laying some strong foundation by going after the enterprise market. They are not shooting for number one quite yet. At this point in the marathon The 3rd option, a foot in the door is where they should be.its foolish to think that HP could take over and be number one. webOS users should understand that. webOS has always been built with the cloud in mind and hp is on the right path to building an ecosystem that will be solid in the mobile arena.

i have no problem waiting. My ipad 1 just sits there and collects dust anyway. the only good thing it does is connect to logmein so i can be productive on a real machine.

WebOS 3.0 is currently available to developers, and it has been for quite a while, albeit not usable on working devices. WebOS 3.0 will go gold in the next month with many apps updated at launch along with new TouchPad hardware (whether it will draw lines or not remains to be seen).

Question,

If you steal something from someone, but no one knows the person you stole from exists, is it really stealing?

YES

Simple answer: Yes it is.

they are giving free publicity webOS,i am just waiting to have a tablet which can do computer task i dont care which os it uses.
Microsoft is gonna get there first and webOS second for sure.

well when you are referring to ideas stolen from webos the answer is a big NO!!!! No one outside of this website either is unaware of webos or does not care.

What if you steal something from someone, but the other person knows you are stealing from them, they have proof in the form of some official documentation, they have the money for fancy lawyers but they dont do anything about it.

Is that still stealing?

Good question, but if they stole from you first, does it make it ok to steal back?

HPalms's marketing philosophy:
1) Announce new product well in advance to give competitors time to compete.
2) Alienate current users and developers by keeping them from updates and asking developers to support framework fragmentation for nothing (wait, not nothing - dev's need to buy new hardware!).
3) umm... Profit!

Sometimes I really wonder what's going through their heads over there!

It seems to be the same philosophy that brought down palm.... I wonder who was in charge at that point. I wonder who is still in a position to be making these same decisions now.........

HP saw a dead end with 2.x... and I would have to agree with them.

Lets wait and see what happens before we pass judgement, hmm?

Apotheker on HP being cool, "Duh! Winning"

I am not as impressed with these latest IOS features...I feel it only shows how stale apple is getting ... it CERTAINLY is impressive when speaking the sheer amount of features and backing they are bringing to IOS....but none of the features blew my mind in terms of ingenuity...I remember seeing pinch to zoom for the first time and being blown away....these features seem to take the same stale IOS and adding more buttons and clutter to it....still no widgets??? Even the lock screen features dont show when the phone is docked

Anyway I think webos is starting to look more conformed and elegant than apple than IOS....thanks apple!

Well, at least iCloud is useful!

The concept of cloud based multiple device synchronization using a single profile is really cool and I had hoped it would be a WebOS distinctive feature.

But yet again Apple is eating HP's lunch and delivering it first.

you can't completely change or revamp the whole OS with 500000 apps,you risk loosing some of 'em.
ios hit the saturation point 2 years ago,look at what happened to honeycomb 100 apps(200000 apps gingerbread.

Hey is anybody else having issues with commenting off their palm pre? Am i the only one?

I can't say for sure today, but, I've found my ability to post here is spotty recently on my Pre+ (yes).

On the engadget liveblog they also mentioned something about a new gesture to flick for multitasking. Interested in seeing what that is.

multiple fingers gesture.
4 finger swipe left/right = full swipe gesture in webOS

5 finger pinch = closing an app

also

4 or 5 finder swipe up, reveal open apps.

5 finger pinch is more "show home screen" rather than "close app".

my probability of buying the TouchPad over the iPad dropped from 50% to 25%

I like the way iOS looks. I think they did a pretty good job in adding new features to their OS. I was impressed most by the depth of the iCloud. Storing my media in a cloud is something I'd like to do. I was also impressed with all the camera features. Zooming and cropping are things I can use.

All that said I'm still not trading in my pre 2. I love WebOS. The way my info updates automatically and is well organized. I also that I can move around the phone easily. I do realize some features are lacking but I'm confident by this time next year WebOS will be far more developed. I hope that's the case anyway. If not I'm buying an Iphone summer 2012.

"I do realize some features are lacking but I'm confident by this time next year WebOS will be far more developed."

Similar hopes have been expressed quite often since June '09. It's the (now legendary) "webOS potential".

Yes, and really the phones have languished. It makes me question of the overall logic of basing your platform on web technologies, I think in hindsight it was a mistake. The PDK should have came first and allowed hybrid apps without being so awkward. I think browser based apps make a lot of sense on the computer, since it foregoes installing tons of small apps, but on a phone it isn't that hard to manage, so in essence the true advantage is mitigated by the platform. Enyo is a nice framework, but it doesn't completely solve the problem either, and Windows 8 looks like it may destroy any promise webOS has on the desktop.

That should be very depressing for Apple.

If webos has hardly progressed since 09 and many of us still prefer it over IOS - well ...

Personally I have close to 0 issues with the OS.
Yeah - I'd like new and improved hardware (mostly better battery life).

And more quality apps wouldn't hurt. But the os itself is still great. For what I like and prefer it's still in the lead.

"If webos has hardly progressed since 09 and many of us still prefer it over IOS - well ..."

WebOSs share is about a third of what it was in '09.

There is a die hard contingent for sure, but no one I know (of the few who did) who had a WebOS phone still has it.

wasn't the split keyboard also copied from windows?

That's where we saw it. I knew it was not new to me ...

Advantages that webOS had prior to today: notifications, OTA updates, auto backup of apps, better multi-tasking, potential integration with TouchPad.

webOS advantages vs. iOS 5: a blinking light and multi-tasking

iOS advantages: app selection, iCloud features, iPad / iPod touch integration, iCloud back up features, better hardware, battery life, editing office suite, more updates, support of older hardware, camera features, etc.

I really, really hope that HP steps up their game, but it is getting very difficult to hold out hope after 2 years of waiting for something better to come to Sprint and from HP / palm.

Funny but sadly true

What webOS has over iOS: dev confidence that their bestselling app won't be turned into a "feature" in the next OS update.

If that dev's idea was that successful, I'm sure they are laughing all the way to the bank.

I read somewhere else in here that HP should "promise" to devs to not implement their apps before getting permission.

That should do wonders for the product innovation cycle!
/sarcasm

As HP is too apathetic to update the OS... support their products... nor fix app catalog bugs...

Probably less than 5% of developers would even give this a passing thought. Most apps simply are not broad-interest enough for the platform to ever incorporate.

First - the silly "2 years wait" claim is silly.

It's now 2 years since the phone first appeared in the US market. If you waited since day 1 you bought the wrong product. People typically buy their phones to last a couple of years - and the spend-happy impatient geeks here perhaps upgrade after 1 year.

At most it's been a 1 year "wait". For many or most people the waiting for an upgrade has only just begun.

Battery life is a problem for all smartphones. The Pre maybe is on the low end of the range - but the others don't run for that much longer.

Otherwise I agree with the IOS hardware advantages. Well - we'll see about the comparative hardware quality when the Pre3 arrives. Reports about the Veers hardware quality have been encouraging.

But there's a couple of further advantages for webos devices:
* Flash
* Card metaphor and gestures
* Easier to develop for
* More open
* USB on tablet
* Physical keyboard

Not all of those will be interesting to everybody - but the same can be said for some of the IPhones advantages (to me ITunes is a minus)

Hey I didn't get through all the post comments, so if someone already said this, this will make another one.... What happens when the iphone5 supposedly come to Sprint late this year???? That would mean, in my belief, a great deal of competition toward the whenever release Pre3. Damn I'm so mad at how my Palm ppl fell short of progressing with the Pre. I went to the Epic, had to the Pre1 SUCKS, really pls agree with me, compared to these Android phones! The one thing that is keeping it in the battle is WebOS, other than that OMG! I want the Pre3 just for the WebOS however, have you seen the spec's for the Pre3. When it comes out in “whenever” it'd be again behind everybody else and once again the only thing that might save it is the OS, but for how long....

specs is for geeky android

People need to stop complaining. We just got a major, major update. But we got like a v.100.0 update, not this silly +v.1.0 update. We went from HP/Palm to HP. We had our entire supplier(?)change names, not a simple device or OS! Rejoice my friends they won't one up us on this!!! :)

OOOhh, stop complaining. what HP gonna do take away WebOS? Darn right we are complaining. This B$ has gone on long enough. By the time HP gets all its ducks in a row. They are gonna be blown out of the water with both barrels by Google and Apple. What we have here is a company that is too big to get out of its own way. It's sad really most of here want this to succeed. This is looking more like a still birth every day.

Must resist....urge....to...buy....iPad.....
WHEN TOUCHPAD? WHEN?

MALDICIÓN, SI TANTO VEN QUE IOS 5 A AVANZADO XQ SIGUEN AUN AQUÍ ESPERANDO A WEBOS LIBERACIÓN, SI creen que webos esta en un callejón sin salida, rápido id a comprar un ipad o un iphone, mientras tanto los que confiamos en que esta historia no se repetirá como paso con Paml seguiremos aquí apoyando la plataforma de una manera u otra.....

--Webos aun esta muy avanzado a ios, tiene mucho mas recorrido en las nuevas características que ios5 , asi que Webos aun es innovador si se compara con las demás plataformas

Siguen aquí porque la gente pueden decir lo que le dan la santa gana. Asi que guarda tu maldición. Esto es un lugar para descutir webOS, lo bueno tanto como lo malo. Si no te gusta lo que dice alguien, quítale un puntito, sigue al próximo y ya.

Magnificent Multitasking on webOS FTW!!!!!!!

iOS didn't add that to their bag of tricks.
It still can not be replicated flawlessly.

Also, add Synergy to our repertoire of yet to be duplicatied.

So i guess Steve Jobs knew what he was saying at iPad 2 launch when he stated "2011...the year of the copy cats."

There's no harm in being a copy cat Steve!

Everyone copies. Not everyone is successful. All these OSes stole a lot from each other.

If I could simply copy an idea, sell millions and make billions, I'd show up with every recording device known to man.

If you haven't seen it, look at the lion presentation. The most important features look eerily like webOS 3.0. They swipe between screens instead of cards & the mail app looks about 90% identical to the one on the Touchpad.

Ladies and gentlemen..I know that many of you are upset at HP that no serious products are out yet. But think about it ..what are you options? Basically Ios and Android are the same software in my opinion with IOS being somewhat more polished. But both systems are OLD and OUTDATED.. Swip left apps swipe right apps..Nothing really knew showing in any...With that said IOS is supposed to drop in the fall in which we can hope a nice slate phone drops after the Pre 3..Personally I can't stand Android and wouldn't dare move to IOS and pay more in apps and everthing thats needed to own one. Hold tight because soon people will see the beauty of WEBOS

I used to believe in the Holy HP Trinity of Rubio, Apotheker and Kerris and their Gospel of the App Cards and hordes of Applications falling like manna too...

But then I also used to believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy. So tell Tinkerbell you truly and sincerely believe and click your ruby slippers saying "There's no OS like WebOS, There no OS like..." but it won't help. Time to put the cool-aid away.

I think some of the problem lies in the fact that most of the pre user base is still on Sprint. Sprint users have seen an upgrade in almost 2 years or longer. It becomes harder and harder to stay with HP/WebOS when there is a new Android phone every 5 mins and Apple updates the iPhone on a pretty regular basis.

I think if HP said that WebOS was coming to all carriers or we would see a steady stream of Veer commercials it would relieve a lot of tension. That would signal that HP was deadly serious. Right now we have to wait, but I will say this. I'm getting tired of waiting and if the iPhone beats HP to Sprint them I'm going to switch my business to the iPhone.

Another note..interesting how the iCloud is a lot like HP's Synergy could/should be.

Agreed, except for switching to iOS.

The funny thing is that you allege that Apple stole/copied, etc all of these things. I find it funny when people say thing; but don't point out the entire market copied the iPhone from form factor, to an app store, to pinch to zoom, etc. This was a dead market and Apple revived it. I for one am glad to see the updates; but usually when Apple adds stuff it works and works well; i.e. copy/paste. Give credit where credit is due.

If the Pre form factor is a copy of the iPhone, I have the body of Arnold Schwarzenegger (I'm a programmer who spends 14 hours a day in front of the computer; you be the judge).

Tonight I listened to Buzz Out Loud and Today In Tech(TNT) Podcasts. I listen to BOL everyday, and hate TNT, however I listened to TNT cause they have such an Apple Fanboyism to them I knew it would be night and day. I just have to say Leo needs to do something about that Podcast. It is the worst I have ever heard! Pure Apple is like the inventor of all things good! rwstaten, you should take a listen to only TNT...

Form factor? Give credit to the LG Prada.
App Store? Give credit to Handango.
Pinch to Zoom? I'll give you that one.
Dead market? Really? Really?

Time is running out on the multi-tasking/better OS argument for WebOS. Others will (have already) catch up. HP needs to make a showing really soon at least for the consumer mark. I sure they will make their mark in the enterprise.

The frustration I have lies with the thoughts of what WebOS could be or could have been by now. I struggle to believe that Apple and device OEMs are the only ones that seem to be able to execute with some speed. Or maybe HP is really going to focus most of their attention on the enterprise. If that is the case so be it. Either way we shall see.

I was worried after reading this precentral post on iOS5 but actually after watching the apple keynote i'm really pleased to still be a Pre minus reader waiting for a Pre3!

I have been pissed about Apple's lack of cloud support for a long time. MobileMe wasn't worth the money (though I spent the money for a year of it), except for the integration between desktop Safari and mobile Safari with bookmarks sync. All I wanted was basic syncing over the air of calendar, contacts, etc. without having to use Gmail. Apple drove their users into the arms of other companies because they were unwilling to get around to these basic functions sooner. Well, now I use Gmail religiously (and like it very much), and use my Pre 2 as my main phone. iOS 5 won't change that for me.

"iCloud is impressive, and right now the only competitors that stand a chance of approaching its comprehensive status are Google and HP."

Now, Microsoft hasn't been very good at cloud stuff so far (if at all), but I'd say that there is something to be said for WP7 and it has a chance of being a cloud competitor, simply because MS is smart enough to see that mobile is their best chance to do the cloud integration right. Prior to this point, none of their business partners wanted to have anything to do with MS' cloud offerings. WP7 can possibly change that, since businesses will now expect this kind of integration, considering that it's now available on the majority of mobile systems. I see MS out performing, or at least being a strong competitor for, these other options. It is definitely much better than Blackberry (my wife has one, and I've used BB in the not-so-recent past) and IMO more stable and reliable than Android. Once they catch up with features in the same way Apple just did, they will rock. And, it won't be features based on copies, which is odd for MS.

hhm that are are some impressive features listed there:

* full backup over wifi/cloud (that would have been an easy one for Palm/HP from the start - or at least after a year)

* no need for iTunes (that is major hit for many iOS-phobics)

* finally a appropriate notification feature (seems not as good as webOS, but way better)

* perhaps the apple own message-service will bring 3rd party messenging devs like what's app and others to webOS :)

* LED flash for notifications

* Todo app with location based reminders integrated into OS

.. and all this with full support of developers. Will be hard one for HP.

and btw iOS 5 is backward compatible to the 3GS (launched on June 8, 2009):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_3GS

Well the original Pre was launched on June 6, 2009) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_Pre
and didn't even get webOS 2.0 - not to think of a webOS 3.x launched in autum (as iOS 5)

That's also a tough one i think !

I love it. Just switched over from Pre to Iphone 4 and my biggest gripe was notifications. I dont care if they stole it or not. All i care about is that I have a great product in my hands(iPhone4) that just got a whole lot better.

I love how everyone here wails and moans about people "stealing" stuff from HP, but there is never a whisper when HP is caught red-handed stealing from others.

Don't believe me, read this thread and follow the link: http://forums.precentral.net/general-webos-chat/282142-who-stole-what-wh...

HP "stole" the whole concept and name of "Tap-to-Share".

Android has or will have the ability to act on many functions on the lock screen. Actually, I believe there are icons you can set in the lock screen then when locked you drag a certain icon to the lock and it will unlock and launch that app. I don't have an Android device though, so I'm not sure if it is currently available.

So just putting that out there.
Also, my music apps work on my lock screen, save for Slacker.

I hate this. Just when I think that webOS has a chance, iOS comes in and kicks it's **** And didn't do hardly anything! The only thing left for them to do now is get a better multitasking metaphor which is a lot more obvious. My older brother didn't even realize that his iPhone 4 multitasked and was very surprised when I showed him the overly complicated way to access the multitasking bar and he still had every app he had ever opened open. I'm pretty sure he had the phone for about a month. But if they fix that, (hopefully not with cards), I don't see much of anything for the average consumer in webOS but hardware, which is sad. We don't do too well in hardware. HP had better be working it's **** off on the next webOS tablet, one that's meant to be webOS from the beginning, because the TouchPad is hardly a webOS tablet. It runs it, but it wasn't meant to. No gesture area, the design is speaking a different language than all the other webOS phones. I don't like it. And HP does not have nearly as much scale as it thinks it does. Because it's not going up against Apple, Google, RIM and Microsoft. Those are just the software, really. They're going up against HTC, Apple, RIM, Nokia, Samsung, Motorola, Huawei, LG, Dell, Acer, Asus, and Lenovo. And all except for LG, Acer, Dell, and Lenovo are better qualified as smartphone companies. Palm, of course, didn't stand a chance, but the mythical man-hour will stop HP from having a chance for far more than another 8 months. It doesn't help that they've only had since Palm was integrated to work on the TouchPad. Apple had been working on the iPad off and on for the past 20 years. The iPhone was designed with the iPad in mind, but it wasn't it. iOS was designed with this in mind, and now Apple is finishing off it's grand plan in Jobs's lifetime.
I'm a Mac. iCloud is very tempting, but HP is cheaper and just barely as good.

This article is terrible and I disagree totally. Sounds like sour grapes to me Derek.

Yes, Apple did take the pull down notifications from Android, and as an Apple fan I was disappointed by that, but then again, there are only so many ways to do notifications.

As for copying webOS because it has lock screen info and backs up to the cloud:

1. Lock screen info dates from Windows Mobile, not Palm, so Apple didn't copy webOS

2. webOS only does a half assed job of backing up to the cloud whereas Apple released a service so far reaching that it's light years ahead of anything webOS can offer. iCloud is a total ecosystem that extends far beyond the phone. HP will be lucky if they get to implement half that in their probably half assed attempt at the cloud.

Seriously, Apple is the best for a reason. Don't hate on them just because you're jealous. Just go out and buy an Apple device and keep your webOS device for old times sake.

By the time the TouchPad is released, iPad 3 will be here. Really.

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LOL... This article is pretty hypocritical. Yeah maybe apple [stole a few ideas] and, I might add, made them better. Pre started off using one of apples employees familiar with the designs and strategies of the iPhone and based their whole product off it. not to mention, anyone with a touch based phone, or pad [stole] or was inspired by the iDevices as they were the pioneers.

Also, can someone direct me to an article showing where Pre is headed. I know they went out of business and HP bought them but as far as I know HP is going to trip themselves trying to catch up with android and iOS but I'd like to see with what future plans they intend to do so.

Tis nothing new Apple have been stealing ideas for years then sueing the people they stole it from for having the audacity to still be around ...its how Apple works and they don't always get it right or better either.

If Apple drive people to make better devices or software then this is a good thing...as long as they are not Apple devices or software.

I'm not sorry about hating Apple and the sheep they groom.

Red..(Android lover and WebOS fan)