iPad might be #1, but the HP TouchPad is already #2 in mindshare 145
Let's all just calm down for one quick minute. Yes, there is some speculation and rumor going around that the TouchPad is selling so horribly that BestBuy wants to return more than 200,000 devices back to HP (this has yet to be confirmed as true by anyway, including BestBuy). But that does not change the numbers from a recent survey by Robert W. Baird & Co. which show the HP TouchPad sitting in the #2 position for tablets (after their Apple competitor). According to CNET, more than 1,100 people were asked which tablet they were most interested in buying, and the results make being a webOS fan a bit easier to live with after the situation that erupted yesterday.
What comes as no surprise is that the Apple iPad 2 is the #1 tablet by an extreme longshot. 94.5% of the people surveyed said they were at least somewhat interested in purchasing an iPad. In the #2 spot, though, was the just over one-month-old HP TouchPad with 10.3% of people surveyed being interested in the device. Yes, that's right: The same tablet that tech bloggers and news columnist are calling dead is actually the second most highly-desired device to date. Take it to last place and we see the Blackberry Playbook, which was only found to have 3.8% of the people surveyed interested; a meer drop in the bucket.
What about Android tablets? Well, they're all fighting for that third spot on the list. If you take them all combined, then there is certainly a larger percentage of desired purchasers for them than if broken down into individual devices (which was the purpose of the survey). The fact is, Android as a whole might be doing well in the market, but individual tablets aren't having the best luck right now. If you aren't an iPad, you aren't making much of a dent.
There is something to be said for being in the #2 spot, though, and when the HP earnings report is published to the interwebs for us to look at the numbers later today, it might not be too surprising to see that HP isn't doing as bad off as some might lead us to believe. We definitely have a whole lot of work ahead of us to gain a larger market share, but there was another company that sat at 10% market presence for a very long time, and now they're the most valued company in the world.
Bottom-line; The TouchPad has only been around for a month. If you think the game is over now, guess again. We've only just begun.
145 Comments
This has more credibility than yesterday's news.
Still, HP can do better.
Interesting that only somewhat good news is "credible" around here. Nielson, comScore, Appcelerator Dev Survey, articles on Best Buy, price cuts, all those things are not "credible" unless they show webOS in a positive light.
Funny stuff indeed.
The article from BestBuy is not entirely credible because the source is anonymous and was not confirmed by BestBuy. Until it is confirmed by the company publicly, the statements could be from someone just making up facts for all we know.
Thanks Tim, that was exactly what I meant. I will wait until 2pm to hear the Earnings call before making a judgement
Of course, PreCentral has written articles on sources far more vague and nebulous, but I guess credibility flows one way around here.
It's amazing how low Precentral has sunk. This used to be a good website. Seriously, just when you think you couldn't possible read a worse article at Precentral, here comes Tim to the rescue.
Hopefully Kevin makes some changes soon.
I agree, but you know how hard it must be to champion a dead horse?
Mindshare is as useless as an HP promise. It's nothing until the device is in the user's hands and everybody is happy.
Firstly, mindshare needs follow through. If the customer sees the Touchpad is laggy, lacks apps and a decent camera, meh!!!
Lastly, there are a lot of people not interested in Android tablets for a good reason. Their phones are mini tablets in the first place with SD, HDMI, Flash and doc editing.
Being second in mindshare is the first runner up to Miss Congeniality. Market share get's the crowns and scholarships.
I find it interesting that this is the second quarter in a row that there are negative things put out into the media just before HP is announcing earnings. Last time around, it was the leaked memo which called for pain that has yet to hit HP employees yet. Now, it's the Best Buy report. I wonder if there is a connection.
Why did we skip the regular mindshare report this quarter? The other sites posted them.
Articles on Best Buy which are STILL just speculation.
Price cuts that are standard fare anyway.
The other items you mentioned just come with the territory of fighting an uphill battle.
Price cuts of this size, this early, are NOT standard fare. Sorry.
Sure, if you're used to "traditional" smartphone/tablet manufacturers.
Keep the excuses coming.
taharka, you can't argue with them or be logical....they're on the titanic claiming its not sinking.
yep and im playing the violins till the ship goes down and im sinking in to the freezing atlantic ocean clutching my sprint pre- lol
EVERYBODY ON!!!
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=image+boarding+titanic&view=detail&i...
Sorry taharka do some research before popping off. This is standard practice for HP. Check the online store. A 20% to 25% drop on new introduced products in the first 30 days happens all the time. Take the Envy beats notebook, started off at $1700 dropped to $1400 in the first month. The p1102w printer at launch $150 within 30 days $99.99. The TouchSmart desktop pc launch $1149.99 after 30 days $949.99. And the list goes on and on and on and on. And do me a favor watch the new products coming out just now, log the price and the check it in 30 days and then come back and print you retraction.
It might be standard practice for HP, but it's not standard practice for profitable companies.
Let me ask you, what the **** are you doing in this site? It's just so obvious you're just a typical troll. Since when does HP not make profits?
I live here. Have from day one. I still carry a Pre. Leo still owes me. WTH are you?
7% is profits. But its charitable to call that profitable. And most of HP's product lines lose money or break even. Ever notice how HP cartriges run out of red ink first? HP tests each cartridge by printing their operating capital reports.
So not only are you uninformed, you're also apparently stupid. A three year old with a computer and a mouse can spend all of 30 seconds on google to find out that HP is THE number one pc distributor in the world - that would be Earth in case you aren't aware of that. Talk about only hearing what you want to hear. Titan20 is right, what the **** ARE you doing here other than being a troll?
What's 7% profit and 2% mindshare worth now? Go take a look at industry norms for large-cap tech companies. HP is the laughing stock of the industry.
LOL
@Taharka :-)
Polls do not translate always into sales.
Given the surplus and price drops, if people wanted the TP, they'd have the TP....or at least a **** of a lot more would.
Anyone remember the New Coke? It actually tasted pretty good, but then people bought iPad2's instead.
Being a webOS fan is one exciting rollercoaster ride full of highs and lows. Not sure if the ole ticker can take it.
Amen!
WebOS seems to be on the eternal lift hill.
nice counter to the doom and gloom article last night.
so 90% of the people polled don't want a TouchPad, and this is good news?
makes for a nice clear playing field where everyone not named Apple can fight for the bottom 10%. :-)
It's not that they don't want a TouchPad, it's that they are more interested in an iPad. They aren't against the TouchPad, most only know about the iPad and choose that instead. There is a big difference.
This is also something that education, training and advertising can fix.
Oh, so 90% choose iPad because they are unaware of the TouchPad? Riiiiiight.
Because some will say webOS is better than iOS.
Seems the better part of 90% of those in this survey disagree with you.
That's not what the survey said. It says that 94.5% of the people where interested in buying an iPad. That implies to me that they don't have one and are going simply on the advertising. They don't know the difference between iOS and webOS. To them they are just tablets, and the one with the biggest mindshare right now is the iPad. There are plenty of people out there that call every tablet an iPad (like people in UK call vacuum cleaners hoovers, even though they aren't all made by Hoover).
I've met a number of business iPad users who are jealous of my TouchPad because it can multi-task. People who were telling others to buy iPads just a couple of months ago. I have users that I support who have bought TouchPads by themselves, even though their friends and coworkers have iPads, because they like the ability to multi-task. The TouchPad is doing well, for a product that has only been out a month.
You can't know if they do or do not know about the OS in either.
but why is 90% being unaware of the touchpad so hard to believe? i'm just looking around my family: parents(2), brother/wife(2), sister/husband(2), teen-age niece and nephew (2), sister, my wife, parents-in-law(2), sister-in-law/husband(2), brothers-in-law/wife(4), my 2 pre-teen boys...and me.
so that's 21. everyone knows of the iPad. and the only people that knows ABOUT the touchpad is me. my sister and wife know OF the touchpad because i'm constantly talking to them about it...so let's count both of them as 1 "real" person.
that's 2 out 20 people. 10%, right? reminds me of when i pull my pre in party and everybody says..."what the **** is that?!"
look around and do your own survey. it's only hard to believe if all the people you "communicate" with are in the tech forums :). but the touchpad brand hasn't penetrated yet. it will take time. because right now for most people associate "ipad" with tablet like how a long time ago "coke" was to soda or how "pc" came to mean windows.
I think you are misinterpreting the problem here, Tim. No amount of education, training and advertising can fix a faulty product. Ask yourself if sales would have been different if the internet was buzzing a week before the TouchPad's 'first' soft launch. Reviewers, enamored with the product, praising it, loving it, recommending it.
It didn't happen like that. webOS's Achilles heel, sluggishness, happened. Many thought, hey good try! but youre still far off. Promising, yet not there yet.
The web would have been alive, then TV, a viable iPad contender. Nope. No big apps besides Facebook. But we did get a useless Angry Birds easter egg. I wonder how many of hours that took, it sure paid off.
There's patterns that we are seeing, over and over, it doesn't quit. Pre 3 launched in Europe? Oh. I didn't see a microsite. A teaser. Oh, Pre 3 coming to USA? Yeah, we'll probably get an email or something.
webOS might not be dead, but let's not be silly about its failure to succeed linked to the lack of HP cheerleaders on the floor at Best Buy.
You're entire comment is based on the TouchPad being a failure of a device. Which it is not from not only the survey shown above, but also the retracted reviews once 3.0.2 was released, the number of sales through places like AMazon and Staples (which have both been sold out a number of times). I could keep going with more examples, but I have other things I need to get to.
yes, but you see tim, if this wasn't a failure of a device, people desiring it would be different. those two factors are in direct relationship with each other. ipad, success of a device, sold millions, people want it. touchpad, not so hot of a device with bugs and underachieving software, sold very well under millions, people want it after all the people that want the ipad (which is a lot). i would like to hear the numbers on touchpads returned also, but i fear that wont be factored into their public numbers sold. 3.0.2 solved many things but lets face it, 3.0.2 SHOULD have been 3.0.0 as it was. It wasn't. half baked means an ota after it has launched.
sold out seems like a positive phrase but it is meaningless unless you know the inventory sold out. i could say yes staples and amazon did sell out of every touchpad, but if that means they had 5 in every store, that is not impressive.
'failure of a device' is your phrase not mine. im glad youre being truthful because thats exactly what HP needs right now.
"yes, but you see tim, if this wasn't a failure of a device, people desiring it would be different. those two factors are in direct relationship with each other."
I disagree. Just because people are not buying it, does not mean that it is a failure of a product. You and Tim are arguing separate points. You are saying that the TouchPad is a failure because nobody is buying them (relative to the iPad)or is considering buying one. Tim is arguing that the device is a success because he has used it and likes it and so do other people. It meets their needs, and it is what HP set out to build. You both may be correct in your own arguments.
Back to why I disagree with your statement, you correlate less relative desire for the TouchPad to the iPad to mean the TouchPad is a failure. Does a product have to sell more than all others to be a success? I think we can agree that Apple products right now are a phenomenon as far as consumer products go. They totally deserve the success they are seeing, too.
I am going to make a comparison, and you may disagree with it as it is based on my own opinion. Wilt Chamberlain holds the record for the most points scored in a NBA basketball game with 100 points. Michael Jordan only ever scored 69 points in one game. Does that mean that Wilt Chamberlain was better than Jordan? Or that Michael Jordan was a failure? Back when Chamberlain scored 100, there was not a 3 second rule for standing under the basket, and he being taller than the other players would stand under the basket and his teammates would pass him the ball over everyone and he could just lay it in. I am comparing the iPad to Chamberlain and the Apple's current reputation to the lack of a 3 second rule. Points scored in a game is number of units sold. He took advantage of his situation to score big and set a record that may never be broken. Even the best players today are not going to be able to match it. All HP can do is hope to become Kobe Bryant and score 81. But that doesn't make them failures. My point is also not that Wilt Chamberlain was a bad player, or that the TouchPad is better than the iPad.
I also wouldn't say the iPad sales are a fluke, it is clearly an exceptional product. I am saying the disparity between iPad and TouchPad is not as great as even this survey shows.
i understand what you're saying and we could debate about it, but business speaks only one language: numbers. The TouchPad does not have the numbers, in numbers sold, in profit, in numbers shipped. While the TouchPad might be a great device to some, the encompassing TouchPad effort is a failure. And yes, if we are speaking of numbers sold, the TouchPad as a device is a failure because it failed to sell. I think this is a circular argument, so let's keep this simple.
Money=good. TouchPad didn't sell, therefore it does not equal money, therefore it is not equal good. While multitasking might be amazing and Touch-To-Share revolutionary, if the TouchPad is not making it to the cash register and out the door, then there is a problem. No amount of surveys can steer you away from that conclusion. Something didn't go right, and this isn't the first time webOS has sung that song. It knows the lyrics by heart.
I appreciate the analogy, but let's compare points to profit each quarter. Apple is consistently high; they even had trouble keeping up with the demand. Each quarter they scored many, many points. Steve Jobs the coach was very happy. The TouchPad has not had the luxury of being out for an entire quarter, but there is no denying that sales, or points scored, are nowhere satisfactory. The TouchPad trained, but not as hard as the iPad. The TouchPad had nice Converse sneakers, but the iPad had air pockets and all the cool innovative shoe features. And because it had the cutting-edge shoes, the iPad performed very well, while the TouchPad stumbled and ran a little bit slower because his sneakers were too heavy and clunky. The shoes, and because the iPad consistently scored a lot of points every quarter, makes the iPad the best team in the league. The TouchPad team is struggling, and next time the draft comes along, they will be letting go of some players and hopefully bringing on smaller, faster players. But until the draft comes, the TouchPad will continue to not score many points. In fact, it will lose almost every game it plays in.
If you do not win games, you will lose your fans, your support base, and people will lose faith in you because you are not scoring points and winning games. It is possible that the team will dissolve.
These surveys are headliners. They have a lot of missing components that complete the big picture. But since most people just gravitate to easier to swallow information, surveys [provided by a credible resource] usually do the trick in swaying a certain impression. And by Precentral posting this, they are somehow reassuring the webos community that, fear not, despite the terrible sales, we will be alright because this survey tells us that there are still some people that said they like it and they might buy it. This is not encouragement, this is a silly survey. If you want reality, go into Best Buy stockroom.
Like misrepresenting articles as you did here?
Claiming there are "retracted reviews" when the vast majority of original lukewarm ones stand unedited?
Citing Amazon sales because they managed to jump up while extreme discounting was going on, but now are sinking well outside the top 10 tablets even with permanent 20 percent price cuts?
The reviewers had all the training and education about WebOS you could ask for, especially Topolsky, and I'm not aware of any reviewers that recommended the Touchpad over the iPad.
The problem isn't training, education and marketing.
Except Topolsky said in the comments after the update that he would give it a solid 8 and if you weren't dependent on apps that he would recommend it.
So...
"It's not that they don't want a TouchPad, it's that they are more interested in an iPad."
That's like saying that it's not that I don't want to be poor, but I'm more interested in being prosperous, secure, and able to provide for people I love.
If they want an iPad, they DON'T want a Touchpad, Tab 10.1, Transformer, playbook or anything else. You can't train people to want something. Apple INSPIRES desire and consumer lust for their products through superior design, effective marketing, and dedication to smooth user experience. No "training" or "education" necessary.
If HP wants to do the same, then they have to make their brand stand for the same things. And that's not the kind of company they are.
nope, it's not that black and white. if you add the numbers, they don't really add up to 100%, do they: 94.5% wants an ipad, and 10.3% wants a touchpad.
there is an overlap. **** i'm in that overlap....i want a touchpad, and ALSO an ipad! just because you want to be rich, doesn't mean you don't want to be poor...just ask those folks that drive lexus and mercedes but are on medicaid :).
The "overlap" is minimal and goes both ways:
It's not that TouchPad users don't want an iPad, it's that they're much more interested in the Touchpad price.
See how that works?
TouchPad users can get an iPad at a TouchPad price if they want to. They just have to get an iPad 1.
Thus we can say that TouchPad users really do want a TouchPad not an iPad.
Neither was Apple until the turn of the century. I still cringe at the thought of those old Macs I'd always see at the library with their ugly varying colors and boat anchor handle.
Remember, the iPod didn't always exist, and neither did Apple's current market share. Any company can turn their image around, and Apple proves this.
Apple didn't turn their image around. They've been a design and user-experience oriented company from day one. Sometimes thy definitely erred in pursuit of these goals, but that's their DNA.
HP - on the other hand - is a commodity computer seller that relies on scale, lucrative enterprise contracts, and dominance of the printer market. They didn't create WebOS. They acquired it. No different from when they acquired Compaq or Envy. Doesn't mean the DNA of those companies changed their new host.
"Design and user-experience oriented company from day one. Sometimes thy definitely erred in pursuit of these goals, but that's their DNA."
Sounds like Palm to me.
Interesting spin, do you work for a politician?
Spin: interpreting the world to suit your views.
I would say I told you so.. but nobody would listen / care anyways so what does it matter.
Oh Eeyore...
did i miss something?
the headline says #2 in the market but reading the story tells me that the TP came in #2 in a survey related to which tablet you 'might' purchase at some point in time.
Don't get me wrong, i own a TP and think it's great (except for some poorly missed apps (RDP, document editing, etc.)) but HP needs to get moving or WebOS isn't going to make it.
I just made this very point on Twitter. This article smacks of desperation. I realize this is a webOS-oriented news site, and I realize the people writing here love all things webOS, but the headline is frankly a lie of omission, which is still a lie as Captain Picard taught us :) To not say "...amongst surveyed POTENTIAL customers" makes the headline mean something ENTIRELY different than the reality, and that's a bad job on the part of whoever wrote it.
The other point I made on Twitter is that the survey is flawed anyway. Comparing individual devices is not the right thing to compare, it's PLATFORMS that matter. The fact that Android has multiple device choices is an advantage the PLATFORM has going for it.
Let me reframe the point this way... if the survey had asked the question: "Are you more interested in a TouchPad or ANY Android tablet?", does anyone truly believe the TouchPad would come out ahead?
If so, you're fooling yourself... or you asked a bunch of webOS enthusiasts the question :)
FYI, I own a TouchPad. Got it for $299 at Staples. I figured even though I'd prefer an iPad, or even a good Android tablet, that's a **** of a price, I certainly liked webOS way back when (enough to write a book about programming for it!), so I can't pass that good of a deal up. Now, two weeks later, I've tried selling the thing because it's just not very good and haven't had any luck. I'm just going to keep the thing now, but unless HP works an AMAZING bit of magic with an update I'll never truly be happy with it (and no, 3.0.2 didn't make THAT much of a difference).
This article - and this site, by extension - IS desperate. I love how a survey of preferences on future tablet purchases now indicates PRESENT MARKET position.
It's a laughable headline.
Made by a laughable "writer." Taking Precentral to the gutter, one article at a time..lol
"and that's a bad job on the part of whoever wrote it."
You could just say my name. I won't be offended.
The rest of your comment after that is based purely on speculation and not numbers. The question putting the TouchPad against Android tablets is about speculation. "does anyone truly believe the TouchPad would come out ahead?" Yes, actually. I do. Doesn't that make your whole argument flawed?
And it's not platforms that matter, it's ecosystems. And even then, there is a lot to say for single devices selling well (not platforms). Just ask Google now that they own Motorola Mobility, or Microsoft with their big partnership with Nokia. It is almost nothing about the platform, and all about the integrated devices and ecosystem.
I honestly didn't even realize it was you Tim... Believe me, I'm not one to NOT use a name... I guess I AM one to be too lazy to look though! :) LOL
You're right, the rest of my comment is based on speculation... that's all we can do until we have sales figures from HP to compare against Android tablet sales figures. I'm willing to bet my speculation is correct though. I don't think I'd say the argument is therefore "flawed"... I'd accept that its unprovable at this point though.
However, I DO contend that the methodology of the survey was fundamentally flawed, and that's where we get into the next part...
...I'm not sure I understand what you mean by ecosystems as compared to platforms... do you mean you don't want to consider OS vs. OS? Ok, I can live with that... so what we're comparing is the iPad (the only tablet running iOS) ecosystem versus the TouchPad (the only table running webOS) ecosystem versus every single Android tablet combined (because you'd agree they're all part of the same Android "ecosystem", wouldn't you?)... doing that (which is what I meant by platform, even though I didn't perhaps express myself precisely enough) puts things in a worse light for the TouchPad (which I believe you yourself pointed out by saying with reference to Android: "If you take them all combined, then there is certainly a larger percentage of desired purchasers for them than if broken down into individual devices").
I agree, it IS about the ecosystem. The ecosystem being iOS tablet devices versus webOS tablet devices versus Android tablet devices. The fact that there's only one of the first two categories is irrelevant when comparing who wants what or who is selling more of what.
You're right, Frank, but not about this topic.
The survey is about device interest, not about ecosystem interest. One consumer will buy one device, not all the devices available on a platform.
So, although all the Android devices combined show more percentage than the Touchpad, the Touchpad itself is more interesting than any Android tablet alone.
That's a relevant point, being from where webOs comes, and how are Android tablets feature packed against the Touchpad offering.
The survey is intended to compare products, not ecosystems.
Surveys can easily be misleading. I'm formerly an analyst and can manipulate questionaires to make a product sound like a golden shrine. So I understand your comment.
HOWEVER, let's look at the Customer Reviews on Amazon and BestBuy just at an analytic purpose. After 6 1/2 month after release iPad2 is averaging somewhat 4 to 4.1 stars (254 reviews). On the other hand after one month post release, the HP Touchpad is averaging around 4.5 stars (160 reviews).
Just reading most of these reviews expresses that the Touchpad is indeed making an impact on the tablet market place.
That's an interesting point and might indeed mean something. I'm not sure it necessarily means what you've concluded it means, although you could be right. It could also mean that the first 160 people to write a review were webOS enthusiast who are predisposed to like it anyway.
Of course, one could make the same claim about the iPad2 reviews :)
Hey, I don't know, but you're right, that's an interesting observation regardless.
thank you captain obvious!
Dont read too deeply into it. Thats not the intent of his article.
Yesterday, the TouchPad's numbers apparently were dismal. Today, its "#2 in the market". Maybe this is a follow up to keep up appearances to the Pre Faithful.
Its better at this point to wait until some real, proven numbers come out.
It sounds like you are suggesting the independent company fabricated the survey for the benefit of HP and had it ready the day after the Best Buy speculation came out.
That kind of accusation should be backed up with some evidence.
Ever work with JDPower?
yea, the title to this story is very misleading. the TP is #2 in a survey not any market.
If the HP/WebOs Team needs a Professionial individual to train and motivate the Retail Sales Staff, you can reach me @ videodvd101a@gmail.com. I also have experience doing Public Events and can travel around the Country to make sure the Demo's are working properly. I want the TouchPad to succeed. Apple needs competition.
thank you soulmusic. now we need roughly 49,999 exactly like you.
This is actually a remarkable result considering TouchPad wasn't introduced until July 1 and the iPad has been available nearly 18 months.
doesnt matter. look at the numbers and see the divide. if Tom got 98% of the votes and Jerry got 3%, but Jerry was still the second contender, still doesn't look good for Jerry as president.
actually, it's usually Jerry that gets 98% of the vote. just sayin... ;)
I don't care what people said about WebOs being underdog or something worst. The truth is, it is still the best mobile Os I ever use till now. More over after I already played a lot with other competitor OS on phones & tablets, i convinced myself that I'm not mistaken with my opinion.
how is watching youtube on it?
Just fine, as well as ustream, I can stream in the background and perform other tasks.
or watching hulu.com, then go check my email during commercials :). love it!
Really awesome. I watched a Crysis clip at 720p, the only thing lagging was my internet connection.
Youtube is great, but what I really like is Amazon Video on it. Finally can put my Amazon Prime subscription to good use.
This is Good but most people don't know the difference between the Ipad and the Touchpad but with some more clever advertising we can pull this number higher.
The title of the article is "It's iPad or nothing." Being #2 doesn't sound so good anymore :-(
It's all about making a headline that's interesting to your audience. They wrote there's for the shock-effect. We wrote ours because it's factual.
Uh, no...Tim. It is NOT a fact that a survey of future preferences indicates present market position. There's no PRESENT estimate of tablet marketshare that has iPad at 94.5 percent marketshare.
This is absurdly inaccurate journalism at its worst.
I changed the word "market" to "mindshare" to more accurately reflect the facts.
Too bad you didn't accurately reflect the context. Of course, the Touchpad should be higher in mindshare than any individual Android tablet right now:
It's made by a huge company doing a multimillion dollar TV ad campaign that is more omnipresent and far-reaching than the advertising campaigns for every other Android tablet put together AND it's the most recently released tablet. That it's a whopping TWO percentage points ahead of the Xoom and Galaxy Tab isn't an achievement.
In fact, by failing to provide the exact totals of the rest (as BGR did) or even linking to them, you are doing a disservice to anyone trying to read this and get an accurate picture of the tablet market. So you may want to keep editing your article, Tim. Needs work. Feel free to copy BGR and provide the WHOLE PICTURE.
http://www.bgr.com/2011/08/17/tablets-are-fun-but-they-cant-replace-pcs/
A multimillion dollar TV ad campaign that many say they've never seen if you read the CNET comments.
I've seen more Galaxy Tab and Xoom commercials than I have Touchpad.
I picture Tim at the fence talking to Wilson..
agreed...and isn't it 'theirs' (not there's)?
Maybe TP autocorrect?!
"If you take them all combined, then there is certainly a larger percentage of desired purchasers for them than if broken down into individual devices (which was the purpose of the survey)."
Really? I thought the "purpose of the survey" was about whether a PC is still needed if you own a tablet.
I should clarify. Perhaps "purpose" was not the right word to use there. It is still true, though, that they surveyed for individual tablets, not individual OSs.
"Let's all just calm down for one quick minute."
^^^ I like that idea.
These conflicting information is very interesting and confusing. I am surprised Galaxy 10.1 is not higher than TouchPad, since that's the one every reviewer put against iPad 2.
Does this survey broke all Android tablets into different brands? What happens if we combine all Android tablets?
I still hold a little hope for WebOS. But HP has to speed things up. Get Pre 3 out and release the Opal soon after. After than we need a new phone Pre 4 by early next year. Without new products in the pipeline, WebOS looks dead to outsiders.
One advantage for Android tab makers is that they can ride on top of each other. Samsung may not release another product for 6 months, but you keep hear about other Android new devices coming out, and Galaxy keep get brought into the conversation. But HP is on its own, making it tough to keep WebOS in people's mind all the time without new products.
94.5% + 10.3% + 3.8% + Android's share.
That's a lot of people. In fact, it's more than everybody.
Ever thought people could pick more than one?
that wasn't an option.
It's PEOPLE SURVEYED. If you exceed 100% it equals more than everyone.
If people are able to be interested in more than one then it is possible for the percentages to come out to more than 100%.
Take 100 people and lets say that 70 say they are interested in an iPad only. Another 20 say that they are interested in an iPad and/or TouchPad. The other 10 say that they are interested only in a Xoom or Galaxy.
You have 90% interested in an iPad, 20% interested in a Touchpad, and 10% interested in just two of the many Android options out there. 90 + 20 + 10 is greater than 100.
It's still correct to say that 20% of the 100 people are interested in a Touchpad.
That was funny
Oh, HP needs to plant a HP rep in each Best Buy store. Hire a few hundred people to do this on their own. Rotate them through the thousands of stores. Hire some college kids, give them a Pre 2 or Veer and let them play with it and then send them into the stores.
I find this hard to believe. This is as bad as during the Webos Conference they used a survey to show how popular Webos was.
Also the Tab 10 was called the fastest selling tablet before the ban.
If anything its this
Ipad 2
Asus Transformer
Galaxy Tab 10
Hp Touchpad
Xoom
Playbook
They're in order of number/quality of advertisements. I see iPad advertisements everywhere on TV. I see many Touchpad advertisements every day on TV. I see less Playbook advertisements but still see them every day on TV.
Contrast with Galaxy Tab, which I maybe see once every other day. Can't remember seeing any other Android tablet on TV.
a person who doesnt watch a lot of tv isn't an accurate enough representation of what commercials were shown. let's come with some real numbers.
Tim-
Did you even read the article? First of all, the title is "It's iPad or nothing" this is not a positive article about TouchPad sales. Second, the Blackberry Playbook is NOT 3rd, it was LAST place. The Motorola Xoom was in 3rd, virtually tied with the Galaxy Tab 10.1. So you make it sound like the TouchPad had 10% and then incorrectly put the next player at 3% when there was actually a multitude of other tablets likely right behind the TouchPad. I own a TouchPad as well, and I've been on it non-stop every day since Launch Day. I love it. But while the article says the response to the TouchPad was somewhat surprising, that's all they say.
This story tells us that consumers aren't buying a tablet unless it's the iPad. Unless companies cut the price so much that they have zero margin, that's the only way they can sell any. New products are tools for growth, but I can guarantee you that HP hasn't made much money on the TouchPad. Now that's not all bad, I for one thought that HP would likely have to sell it for cost in order to build a user base.
Thanks for citing another butchering of the original article by Tim.
The Playbook was not #3. The Xoom was. They merely said the Playbook was a laggart, not even garnering as much interest as the HTC Flyer.
Clarified. Thanks for bringing up your points.
This chart show's the numbers you mentioned (that Tim left out): http://www.bgr.com/2011/08/17/tablets-are-fun-but-they-cant-replace-pcs/
Maybe the title of the article should say #2 in Mindshare in stead of #2 in the Market. Until HP releases official sales numbers, we can't say for sure that the TouchPad is the #2 tablet.
i've got a hard time to believe that best-buy was stupid enough to allegedly have 270k units in stock but lets look at the other number. apparently selling 25k TP's in one month seems to be deemed a bad number. now lets do the math.
Best-Buy -> 3 x 25k = 75k TP's this quarter
Amazon -> 3 x 25k = 75k TP's this quarter (assuming Amazon sold as badly as well)
Staples -> 3 x 25k = 75k TP's this quarter (assuming the extra $100 voucher helped)
all others -> 3 x 30k = 90k TP's this quarter (assuming they sold crappy too)
this would mean selling at least 315k TP's in the first quarter, where the launch wasn't great, pricing was sheit and reviews in press were modest in the best case.
hmmm...apart from BB having excessive stock, these numbers don't look that bad to me. of course, no comparison to the product from the fruit company but again, considering that almost everything that could have gone wrong did go wrong (pricing, late OTA, late advertising, crummy reviews, etc.) it's not as gloomy as it might look like !!!
cheer up guys :-)
Great post. Why are the webOS faithful not surprised? Patience is a true virtue.
According to Amazon, a great number of customers have left reviews regarding their TouchPad purchases.
All in all, in one month...webOS is alive.
Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: HP TouchPad Wi-Fi 32 GB 9.7-Inch Tablet Computer
http://www.amazon.com/HP-TouchPad-9-7-Inch-Tablet-Computer/product-revie...
Not a surprise. When you come out two years before the competition and you coin the name for the new device, you get to enjoy the lion's share for quite a while. Though I've heard people talking about Android tablets, the word "Ipad" is used most often. If you're in market for an "Ipad" what are you going to buy, a "Xoom"?
On the other hand, starting with the original iMac Apple has been doing a great job in creating the concept of a designer computer. If for the same price you can buy a "Dolce & Gabbana" and a regular store brand, which one would you buy?
Really, to dent Apple's market share the competition has to be significantly cheaper. Despite the perpetual recession there are sooo many people who spend $500 for the latest toy without thinking twice. How can you be meaningfully cheaper when their price is no issue for so many people?
It's time for the world to stop obsessing about killing the latest i-thing. They are here to stay.
this is getting pathetic...
wait. they surveyed 1100 people and only 10.3% had interest in the tp. That's 113.3 people. But 94.3% of the people according to this survey had an interest in the ipad. That's crazy so as a first choice 94.3% would get an ipad. so the touchpad is barely mentioned. YOu're #2? well that's a way way way way way distant #2. And honestly, like the article says i dont' see it as great because by Operating system the android tablets are killing them for second. This is skewing a stat for you're benefit.
plus this is "interest" it's not sales. Doesn't mean they'd buy it especially when 94.5% of the people would get an ipad. I mean they are trouncing everyone. #2 is basically nothing.
pure rationalization on this site. I think Dieter was the only thing keeping it from going off the rails.
"I think Dieter was the only thing keeping it from going off the rails."
Indeed. I miss Dieter's P|C articles.
Same here. But the forums were coming apart under him, alas. Now, the madness has spread to the front page.
Inaccurate headlines. inaccurate representation of source material. Writers having to apologize and edit their work after the fact. Not cool.
Dieter must be psychic, he left after HP said "Everybody ON".
For real, more so with the commenters.
Time to move on to webOS Roundup, except those of you trashing this place.
You should direct your anger at HP. They, not the commenters, are trashing your platform.
what happened to Keith Newman? He hasn't been on the podcast for ages too. I heard him right after the TP launch on the tipb podcast and he pretty much slammed the TP as a big disappointment. Did they ban him as a traitor?
crystal ball says yes. I felt he was to real for the podcast. He talked like he didn't have a gun to his head or hp wasn't spoon feeding him.
crazy if true. I think the last i heard from him was before the touchpad launch. Then nothing. Like he never existed. And i was curious to hear the podcast after launch to hear his opinions discussed by tim and Derek but i don't think he's been on since.
The Keith Newman jumped ship. He was last seen on one of the TIPB podcasts dissing the TP.
The people that said they were interested in the iPad or TP were also allowed to respond that they're interested in both. It's not a conspiracy or a mistake, you just don't understand how surveys work.
And how is he skewing a stat when he clearly states exactly what the relationship was with Android? It's not skewing when you plainly state a fact.
Everyone here is freaking out because he had the nerve to say that this is something that could be looked at positively. Guess no one is happy around here unless everyone is having a circle jerk of negative confirmation.
Is that it? The only thing acceptable around here anymore is slamming HP and if you dare say something positive or upbeat you get gang raped?
News flash: the people running the site haven't ruined anything, it's all this soccer hooligan mentality from the damn members.
Oh and this is NOT number 2 in the market. This is the #2 in a survey of 1100 people where asked "what tablet are you interested in?"
This whole thing is misleading primarily the conclusion in the title. IF YOU ARE NUMBER 2 IN THE MARKET THEN YOU ARE NUMBER 2 IN MARKET SHARE. This survey does NOT measure market share. It only asked some people about interest. Not sales.
Totally misleading conclusion. Maybe they will be number two but this does not remotely show they are.
And you have the results of the market share breakdown? No? Then what you're saying is equally misleading.
Tim, I know you are trying to fight the good fight. For that you should be commended. Thing is when you spin an article that at best says HP has a long long way to even get attention on it from consumers. You are going to take flak from the people on here seeing it for what it is. What we are saying here is we want honesty not spin. We have had all we can take from both the Old Palm and HPalm.
We're not saying that it should be "Oh NOOES THE SKY IS FALLING!!!". What we are saying is shot straight with what is happening.
And Richard Kerris tweeted this article too. Heh...
Tim didn't lie about any of his facts. He didn't misquote anyone. He showed a survey that he said could be looked at in a positive light. But because he didn't get on the **** at-HP-bandwagon he gets lambasted. If anyone thinks he was trying to make false claims about survey numbers they need to re-read the article or get their head examined because that's not how he characterized the survey. He was even upfront about the results breakdown with Android and the combined impact of all their tablets and pointed out that this survey was intended to go to specific tablets. People are deliberately and willfully interpreting this article as something it's not and Tim deserves better for trying to get everyone out of their funk and looking at things from a more optimistic perspective. He didn't misrepresent anything but people here sure are misrepresenting him.
What this survey says is that HP has done a good job of advertising the TouchPad. Ask a random sampling of the population which of something they'd think of buying, they'll mention whatever they've seen the most of. I don't think anybody would argue that HP hasn't been advertising the **** out of the TouchPad.
Note that the Asus Transformer, which has sold (to end customers) at least a million units is mentioned by only 2.1% of respondents. It's definitely sold more units than any of the other Android tablets, most of which have only been out for a month or so. Most likely, it's just not advertised as much as the others.
Tim thanks for taking the time to write this blog. I don't know why all these dicks have to jump down your throat.
maybe because he's full of sh*t
sad but true
Good question, I think they're just lonely little trolls that have nothing better to do and think this is fun. They're just sad little boys mostly with tiny pp's and big ego's.
It's creepy how WebOS users come off like such a brainwashed cult these days. Especially after all the talk of Apple users being sheep.
...yeah really wierd how so many of the readers at PREcentral really seem to like webOS despite the jizzbuckets that continue to come here to tell this new herd of sheep how wrong they are and how bad their manufacturer is. ... Perplexing...
hmmm... very good point. thank you for extinguishing my panic attack. come on hp. time to start investing in the webos app ecosystem. at the very least stand out by supporting all possible formats and codecs. i think everyone would take notice if you were the only phone/tablet that you could just drag n drop and it just works. and i mean stuff like raw for photo and flac for music and mkv for video with subtitles.
amazing... only weboskoolaidcentral could look at a report saying the touchpad is only being considered by 10% of the population (and at a bare minimum at least 45% of those people are also considering the iPad), and find it to be good news.
wait a second..you are telling us to "just calm down"? Aren't you the ones who republished the rumors and unsubstantiated claims in the first place? Why are we being told to calm down?
Yes, thank you Tim for continuing to write misleading and inaccurate articles. You do a real service here at PreCentral as the resident spin doctor. May you continue to pollute the news feed with impunity.
Ok, for all here:
"1,100 people" is statistically irrelevant.
I can't believe such **** can't make it to the front page.
What has happened to this site - yes it's WebOS centric but it's always been basically rationale in it's analysis and how it presents media reporting.
Now most of the articles whould shame Baghdad Bob in how they try and twist reality.
People talk about Steve Jobs having an Reality Distortion Field - he's got nothing on the Precentral UNreality Field!
So what's happened to see the quality of this place slide so far? have the people behind the site changes?
There are many people here making flawed assumptions based on so-called professional reviewers of the TP.
This is a mistake for one important reason - people that buy consumer electronics rely very little on professional reviews and very heavily on consumer reviews.
This distinction is critical in understanding the way the average person buys electronics and views those products.
Consumer reviews of the TP - people that have bought them - overwhelmingly give it glowing reviews. Don't believe me? Check the consumer reviews on Amazon or any other major retailer and the proof is there for anyone to see.
There are a number of reasons the TP is struggling with sales - global economy, not fully ramped up advertising campaign and the fact the TP has been on the market for all of a month - but it's not because a few reviewers think the TP is slow or whatever.
Normal, average, everyday people like the TP very much and that - more than anything else - is what will ensure WebOS has a long and healthy life.
HP is about to launch the 4G TP on AT&T, the 64Gb, white version is coming out in two weeks in the EU and there will be a 7" launched by the end of September. Some of you have the attention span of a fruit fly and don't understand that there is a years-long strategy being employed that when looked at in one month increments (especially the first month) make it difficult if not impossible to gauge the future of this product.
HP is not some little company that has delusions of grandeur - they're the real thing. They've been around for decades, are the world's largest distributor of computers and have shown time after time after time that they know how to sell successful products. That's not hype, that's history. So what? You think "oh, well they're due for a screwup"? Sorry but this company is massively successful and it's extremely unlikely that this venture will fail regardless of how smart you all think you are. Hate to break this to you but HP has people that actually do this for a living and I think they probably know a **** of a lot more than you about how to make a product successful since they've been doing exactly that for longer than some of you were born. Take a Xanax and breath for a couple of minutes. This is not even close to being over.
Yeah, I can only echo others - you can't separate the Android tablets, they have to be taken as a whole. They are all essentially the same internals - just differentiate on the look & feel, the accessories and price; and they all beat the TouchPad on all counts.
Including sales..I assume they did the survey on July when the TP was released - the UK sales too a bump in July too but in August the Android tablets were back at #2.
I honestly think people would be interested in something different from iOS and Android but the TouchPad doesn't seem to be that device.