iPhone Hands-on Video, Smartphone Round Robin 106
The Smartphone Round Robin officially begins... now! This week I'm taking a look at the iPhone - comparing it to webOS. I have a lot on my mind as I consider these two platforms: does it matter that webOS is behind on features and graphical capabilities? How important is true multitasking? Is the notifications system on webOS essential or just a gimmick? Which platform is more 'elegant?'
As a part of that conversation I've started a thread over at The iPhone Blog Forums to get feedback from iPhone users. Stay tuned for a thread in our own forums to help out Phil Nickinson of WMExperts.
For now, though, we have a video after the break for you and a few comparison photos as well. What you'll see is my latest hands-on with the iPhone and it's a discussion with Rene Ritchie of The iPhone Blog about the strengths and weaknesses of the iPhone platform as compared to webOS. I'll be spending the rest of the week thinking and working with the iPhone, chatting with you all, and generally getting ready for Friday's review. Stay tuned!
106 Comments
I'll stick with my Pre
Nice introduction to the iPhone vs Pre. I like how you're staying neutral and pointing out the features why people love the iPhone and why they won't switch. Wasn't too many, however, one of the things I notice with the iPhone vs Pre is the lag you get out of the Pre as the Pre doesn't have native GPU access, so the graphics is slower. Hopefully soon though. Keep up the good reporting!
We used to say that the lag comes from multitasking. In the last few weeks everybody started to say it's from lack of GPU integration, a bit like clinging onto a straw. Let's hope it's true and let's hope that Palm can actually fix it.
I love webos. Why get an iphone when you can get a ipod touch. Palm you hit a homerun with the pre now all you need to do is hit a grandslam with its successor.
DItto; except that I hope Pre is its OWN successor- with software improvements, enable GPU, and some serious apps (including Palm's own PIM) that help business users, this device goes out of the park. (to continue the metaphor)
Palm's sub-par PIM software (compared to the older palmOS) is in my mind the webos' biggest fault. For a smartphone coming from palm, top of line pim apps should be standard, not an addon, it's what they built their name on. It's how they always stood out, and it's how they need to stand out now.
Amen. I miss basics like accepting an Exchange invite in email, or searching the calendar. The patches can only do so much. NEED V2/V3 of PIM apps!
I really doubt these iphone guys who say the dont need multitasking. I picked up my friends 3GS this weekend and found it infuriating that i couldnt switch been apps without having to go back to the home screen etc.
Personnally i view Apple users as being Appple Crackheads who are in denial as they view their whole eco-apple-verse as a reason to exist.
You see this kind of denial with every Apple product. "We don't need video on an iPod!" "Who needs more than 8gb storage?!" "Who cares about FM radio?!" "We don't need multi-tasking!"
Standard replies when Apple products have been criticized for lacking such features. Of course, when Apple finally catches up and gives iFanatics what they thought they didn't need, they suddenly don't know how they ever lived without those features. And, it goes without saying, they then claim Apple's implementation of such features is always superior.
Do you realize that the Pre is lacking 2 of the features you just mentioned? You may also consider that if one day somebody on the internet tells you he doesn't need that feature, and later somebody on the internet tells you they couldn't live without that feature, they may actually be 2 different people with different preferences...
There's a difference. Noone is saying the Pre is perfect, that it doesn't need such and such feature. It's not perfect...it needs 3D support, support for more IM networks, better apps than just web-based ones. But still, for the moment, it suits my needs just fine. 3D games on my phone might be entertaining for short periods, but I'm not likely to ever use it for that. The main reason I want to see GPU support is to make the interface faster.
Thank you! That's exactly right. We acknowledge the shortcomings of our product, and demand better and more. I want more than 8GB storage. I want video recording.
iFanatics, on the other hand, believe their products are perfect as is (until they're told otherwise by Apple). When I told an Apple-loving buddy of mine that I liked the iTouch, but that at 32GB it couldn't hold even half of my music, he said "Oh, c'mon now, you don't really need 128GB! 32GB is more than you'll ever need!" Last I checked, the Touch is now up to 64GB, and will likely go higher.
My e-series Sandisk Sansa was giving me video and FM radio on a 2" screen more than 3 years ago; Mac-heads said "Nobody listens to radio any more!" and "Who wants to see video on a 2" screen?!" Implying, of course, that Apple products at the time weren't lacking features, because Apple knew they weren't worth having...except that, three years later, Apple decided they were worth having.
So all I'm saying is: when a Mac-head says he doesn't need true multi-tasking, all he's really saying is "I don't need it because my perfect Apple product doesn't have it, and to say that I need it implies that I bought a less-than-perfect Apple product...of which there's no such thing...until Apple provides true multitasking...and then I'll realize I need it...which will then be ok because Apple will be providing it." Truth is, right now, he's lusting for those missing features, but will never admit it. Whereas we're lusting for certain things, and the forums here and at Palm.com are filled with them.
I think it was a Palm that said users will never need more than 8gb, and then chose not to offer any type of removeable storage. I've got plenty of my 8gb left, but still hit limits installing apps. WebOS has neither FM radio nor video, coming to the market years after the iphone.
..and the 3GS has FM capability. Apple just hasn't activated it within the OS.
Wow. For a second, I thougt about explaining my comments to y'all, but considering how they completely eluded y'all, it's clearly not worth the effort.
You hit the nail on the head. I know 2 people that are so enthralled with apple they ostracized a coworker who stated she did not prefer the mac's that the office used over a windows based computer. They are both i phone owners, have apple stickers on thier cars, and get this, eventually had the girl fired because they just didnt like her anymore! It's like a freakin cult!
I almost forgot... they had her replaced with another guy in the office that they play mancala with on thier i phones!
Haha. Tell em' like it is.
yea that's right,, once u try multitasking, its not possible to live without it
yea thats's very true what u said. i always wanted to have an apple although i had my pre but when i think abt life without multitasking it sucks pretty bad..... pre is the best smartphone in this planet till......
i'm pre user and i could honestly live without it. Background music like they say in the video is something i want. I've never owned an iphone and after the pre it is weird not having cards but honestly it wasn't that i couldn't multitask it's that the interface is different, like closing apps.
as for the "apple-verse" i've read a lot about well marketed products and i think they may be fanatics but you short change it to think it's not by design. That is a business decision to create an apple culture. Nike has done it, coke, victoria secret, starbucks. And many others. Google is doing it now. I think Palm could takes some cues in branding palm. That or they could stick with the weird girl adds cause (sarcasm) everybody wants to be like the weird creepy girl.
oh and as for the "eco-apple-verse" i think the fact that palm doesn't have it's own intergrated software for sync, for downloading, cradles etc shows how they don't think of these things. I wish they would make their own palm-verses.
I had a pre for a few months but i switched to the iphone. It does have true multitasking through jailbreak and works great. here's a sample vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEYyFfic9DI
I think the iphone is a kind of phone that you at least have to own once (at least an ipod touch) it works great and the build quality is excellent. Im thinking about keeping it until palm releases a true sdk for webos to really see what is capable of it. At that point I may get a new webos device (I hope the build quality on the pre is ironed out by then; bleeding screens, oreo effect), or I may just jump on the android bandwagon. But for now, I am more than happy with my 3gs, besides crappy at&t.
Love my Pre more and more... and these articles will help me argue with my brother :)
Notice how often the keyboard pops up? No thanks... The "no muscle action required" is just silly, of course there is. And I still get my full screen as I type.
Notice how long it took to load website? I can
I feel that if you were to take away all the apps the iphone has, there would not be much left. Give it some time and the pre will have a lot more quality apps.
I agree. You must be a Pre user. Pre users can see into the future.........> iPhone users are, well, SHORT SIGHTED!
Just by the pics, I'm surprise the Pre & Pixi screen looks brighter more vibrate than the iPhone.
what happened to the video link it wasn't working for me
there was a day i once wanted an iphone but im not an at&t fan and i love sprints service and i love the pre and i think multitasking puts pre ahead of iphone
is the video link broken?
its just a matter of time before we caught the iphone. the pre is a better hackable phone and it just needs to get more known and more support.
I'll stick with WebOS and multitasking
you need to google iphone and backgrounder. A jailbroken iphone can multitask just fine.
jailbreak=void of warantee, homebrew=palm encouraged testing ground
Can't get to video from pre. Youtube says video not found.
I`m about ready to jump ship to Apple. I`ve been a PalmOS user for a decade, and had big hopes for Palm with WebOS. Unfortunately, I`m in Canada, and I`ve had it with the app catalog. I`m not able to get ANY app thats not free. I talked to Palm and Bell yesterday, and neither can tell me when I might be able to for sure. Just last night I pulled out the Pre to use the shopping list app, and it had expired. I tried to find it in the Preware catalog, but it had graduated to a paid app, so was unavailable to use. The itunes sync is still a problem, as is the app limit, which I`ve been able to hack my way around for a while, but is becoming annoying again, having to use terminal and mvapp to move things, which I`ll have to completely undo if there is an update ever. The calendar is still horribly slow. The good apps if they were available to me are still just trickling in, and until the gpu is accessable, there will never be any great games, and graphics will remain sluggish. The pre has done away with a dock connector, which the iphone has, so there will never be any cool aftermarket accessories you can plug your pre into that the iphone has hundreds if not thousands of. There will never be any pre integration into car stereos, like there is with iphones and ipods. I spend hours last night trying to get ALL of my contacts to back up to outlook or google, with no success, so much for synergy. I could go on and on unfortunately, which is really too bad, because I wanted this thing to be great, and its far from it. Its many weaknesses outweigh hardware keyboard, and better notifications. Oh and you can get mutlitasking on a jailbroken iphone btw. So without answers from Palm and Bell, I`m left with little choice here.
go have ur apple product. Obviously if itunes sync is a problem for you then you chose the wrong platform. One of the major reasons I don't do iphone is because I hate itunes. Google should be mad easy as a backup,I don't have any problem with that. I will agree you have a serious complaint with canada having a crippled app catalog.
It's not as much Canada's fault as a sign what a tiny company with little international reach Palm is. Apple has their payment solution available in 80 countries.
And apple has much of a headstart on the market? 2 years? huh...
I mentioned the lack of itunes sync, because that is what PALM has chosen to use for its media sync. You push the media sync button, and itunes opens up. This is 100% Palm's decision to use itunes for media sync. I'm not a big fan of itunes, but until palm makes its own media sync program to replace it, or comes up with some other solution, I have the right to complain when what palm has provided does not work.
I forgot to mention how since the last update, all my videos which used to work fine, no longer play at all, or the lack of a video camera.
While you make good points, I feel I need to point out that Palm did not choose iTunes. The only reason it opens on your computer when you sync is that you have it set up as default. I only have iTunes installed in order to update my ipod firmware. iTunes opens up neither when I plug in my iPod or my Pre. I drag and drop on my Pre and use Mediamonkey on the iPod. There are additional and similar programs to sync with Pre (including the aforementioned Mediamonkey).
I use a Pre and an iPod Touch so I have a decent idea of the strengths and weaknesses of both platforms. There are things I love about both but thankfully the Pre is much nicer about how I sync media. the iPod is a sumbitch when it comes to apps and stuff other than music.
According to the developer, Shopping List will made available to those who can't use the App catalog.
http://forums.precentral.net/mojo-apps/196325-shopping-list-23.html#post...
The Pre's integration with car stereos has a better solution than Apple's proprietary docking stations -- namely, stereo blue tooth. Many new cars now have a bluetooth to stereo receiver built in. If not, you can pick up a bluetooth receiver/microphone/speakerphone/FM transmitter unit all in one device that can be easily moved between vehicles (e.g., http://www.jabra.com/Sites/Jabra/NA-US/Headsets/Pages/Jabrasp700.aspx).
I stream music to the radio in my car while running the GPS Navigation app and answering phone calls hands free, all with this one device. It intelligently turns off the music and GPS voice when on a call and turns it back on when you hang up. When playing music it lowers the volume so you can hear the GPS voice.
Try that with an iPhone.
he brought up some great ideas about opportunities in multitasking. It would be nice if future iterations of webOS allowed users to have two cards active, in addition to having multiple cards open.
Two cards active is a great idea. Maybe when in card view, rotating to landscape could show a card view of two apps. That way you could work in one while referencing another. Or drag-and-drop like was mentioned in the video.
Love my pre, and the capabilities it gives me. I'm about to write some apps, and the only real things lacking for me right now:
1) borked sound system with 1.3.1. Hopefully that will be fixed
2) no API for socket access. Can get it by writing a service and then communicating with that, but I just simply don't have the time to get to that level in java these days, so my app will depend on a web backend. Not a good thing for regular end users.
3) If you run streaming audio at the same time as sprintnav or google maps, the device lags to a crawl and eventually stops responding altogether. This has to get better. There's more than enough horsepower there, so I'm not sure what is going on, whether it is a WebOS problem, or poorly written apps.
3 little things against all of the other positives. Not a bad thing. This is the first device I've had in quite some time that I've become excited about. Love my pre and the possibilities it gives me! Oh, and I just bought newsroom. Great app to show off how quick and elegant WebOS can be.
This "review" is six months over due!! Had you done the when the pre debuted, the information would have been more prevalent! Mr Bohn this is why i consider this blog to be a second rate mobile tech site! All your "news" are predicated from other established tech blogs (IE: Engadget).
It's really webOS vs iphone. Which is totally relevant. Try to calm down :)
It's been DONE!! And if your argument is about how these are old reviews, consider that there hasn't been any dramatic changes from 1.0 to 1.3.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/apple-vs-palm-the-in-depth-analysis/
http://gizmodo.com/5294428/palm-pre-vs-iphone-3gs-how-to-make-the-right-...
Do i need to say more?
crazyazn23,
Your links, um... Don't you have something better? The first article was written right after CES announcement in January and covers patents only. The second article is a list of Gizmodo articles related to the phones. Neither is a direct comparison of the phones, not to mention on video.
What has changed is how much time we've had to really get comfortable with the devices. At this point in the discussion you hear them both admitting it comes down to little things like notification management, details in search, etc.
These things were mentioned early on, but now we can more clearly see what it is in day-to-day use about those differences that make one better than the other under certain use.
Is it just me or does the iphone interface seem old and tired?
I like using my itouch sometimes on trips but I just can't see using that interface for my phone. I rely on notifications too much.
The lack of synergy is also a killer. On my itouch I can only see one of my Google Calendars instead of 8 on my Pre. Also that prevents me from connecting to my work Exchange Calendar like I can with my Pre. That point alone would prevent me from ever using the iphone as my daily driver.
Great Points!
As an iphone user, the thing i miss most is notifications that the Pre had. Second would be the sharp screen the Pre has..especially the text on it. It's much sharper on the Pre.
I do see streaming music in background equating to multitasking for a lot of people. This is easily solved by jailbreaking though and isn't a big deal. Multitasking though is more than that. I want to have two emails open. I want to be able to KNOW i have that email there waiting to be finished. Otherwise i'm just hoping its there in memory in the email app. I'd LIKE multiple SMS conversations. I'd like to switch from a nav program to something else and switch back without reloading it. I don't want to run my ipod from within a nav program.
I'd like a 3rd party app to simply open safari for those times to view the web. I don't like staying inside the app for everything.
Oh and umm...in this case the iphone is being reviewed from a Palm webOS point of view. Isn't the point of this round robins getting reviews from someone who isn't really iphone literate but is well acquainted with webOS? While i appreciate Dieter's extensive knowledge, I was under the impression he owns an iphone as well. That much was apparent from his iphone typing speed.
Which is to say, i hope we see a review from someone else from a more exclusive use of Palm perspective. Sorry Dieter, you're too experienced with the platforms :P
Dude, it's no secret that everyone at Smartphone Experts has an iPhone. During one of the roundtable podcasts, they all pulled them out.
The Pre's screen is sharper because it's a smaller with the same resolution, while one person will want sharper, and other will want bigger.
That's part of it. This might have something to do with it too:
Palm Pre: 3.1" with 24-bit colour 480
Incidentally, the color depth also impacts performance. If you enjoy higher speed gaming, the iPhone can then naturally manage graphics faster. Trade offs, trade offs. Personally I like the Pre's screen and great color. But no shoe fits everyone.
I don't know where u got ur 411 buddy. Iphone is 16M colours.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone#Screen_and_input
That's a common misunderstanding. Multitasking is another misunderstanding but that's another subject.
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For me, it's remarkable that the Pre, just 6 months into development of the first generation product with a brand new OS, holds up as well as it does to what anyone would have to admit is a remarkable product that has three generations and almost three years of development time.
The Pre is, in a lot of ways, victim of its own hype. People hyped it up as the "iPhone killer" which is just silly. Nothing is going to kill the iPhone. What the Pre does do is offer the first user experience and set of features compelling enough that it *might* siphon off potential iPhone customers or inspire converts. No other product up until now has even had a chance.
I think the difference between the two phones represents two different mindsets of users. iPhone users want it to "just work" and are willing to take what Apple gives them and wait for the rest (2+ years for basic features and fixes like MMS and landscape messaging!). The Pre represents far more possibilities and ability to customize and innovate, but the "it just works" factor is significantly lower.
I really like your comment. Great points.
Where's landscape messaging on the Pre? Considering it's such a basic feature. ;-)
Although I personally don't use it, the landscape feature, I believe, is accessible through the homebrew app "Preware" along with most of the features people complain are missing everyday. This app makes it very easy to customize you phone in all the smaller areas while Palm spends it's time fixing the bigger issues like GPU and ecosystem.
I read these blogs and I just feel that most complaints about the Pre are from people that aren't exactly aware of it's full capabilities. Of course, there is always the matter of personal preferrence. I think most of the users that utilize the homebrew options for their phone(correctly)are very excited at the possibilities for the Pre. Once the SDK is finished and the ecosystem is in place the sky's the limit. Given the communities support so far and the rate at which the software is being updated, I have found more than enough reason to be excited about the Palm WebOS future.
Available via Preware or QuickInstall.
And that's despite the fact that landscape messaging is not nearly as important for the Pre, which is a vertical slider with a physical keyboard.
For me, the "We'll give you what we think you want, when we think you want it!" attitude of Apple's approach to iPhone development is a major turn-off for me. Making their users wait over a year for MMS, which a $10 prepaid phone from the gas station would do was ridiculous. Then when they finally do make the feature available, it gets fanfare and hype as if it's the greatest thing ever and the Apple cultists act as if Steve Jobs himself created this miraculous new invention!
I'll take WebOS and Palm's embracing of the homebrew community any day of the week, bugs and all.
The point is it's there in homebrew(which pre encourages and apple voids ur warantee)and that Palm will probably take much less than 2 years to brings it, and on top of it won't make you buy a whole new phone every year to get very small changes. Apple releases a "New and Improved" model every June and charges you for it, while Palm will just make it an update for you. How many features in any of Palms phones over the years were phone specific? Not many. They'll keep updating the Pre(and it's little sister) til the hardware can't handle anymore.
Indeed. Especially with new smartphone users. Some say this product was rushed and needs more work, but that's just from the perspective of the most criticizing user. A lot of folks are just jumping into smartphones, and from that perspective webOS is flawless as-is.
My neighbors just jumped into a pair of Pixis. One always owned a very basic phone, and the other no cell at all (!?!). Not knowing or caring about the history or any great details about very advanced features, they simply loved the Pixi after much looking around.
The ubernoob figured out most stuff just by playing. I showed him some other finer tricks and he was just floored. I've never seen him grin and "wow" so much.
Smartphones are still a quickly growing market and the window of opportunity to get in with the new customers early is narrowing.
Well put.
I like Apple products and I like Palms products. One thing that I've not seen discussed is the advantage of time that the iPhone has had on the market versus the Pre. Someone needs to compare both products introduction to the market and then determine which is best. Look at the iPhone from its 4 month introduction and see if it measures to the Pre.
Everywhere I look, people compare the Pre to Apples current market and that is one sided and somewhat unfair. Tell us how many apps did Apple have in 2 months, 3 months and etc. How long did it take for improvements. What was the web browsing experience like. Compare those things with the Pre and you will see that the Pre is a much better product.
Now, from a developers perspective, the advantages of the Pre cannot be overcome by the iPhone. HTML, JavaScript, WOW. Most people know something about that, and therefore the potential for app development will in the next few years will blow the iPhone out of the water.
I like the iPhone because it is an Apple product and they make great stuff. But Palm has won me over for dependability and openness. I'm glad someone thought out of the box and gave both developers and users something that works.
HTML and JavaScript may be easy but they aren't WOW. What they give you is what is in the App Catalog right now. The iPhone SDK is WOW. What it gives you is what is in the App Store right now.
Must be an iPhone user? Short sighted!
If being short-sighted means I don't look too far into the future to find my apps, then I guess I am. I usually just go to the App Store and find an app that does whatever a smartphone can do. I don't usually need to wait.
I will admit that palm may be further ahead based on how long this device has been out, compared to the iphone, but they have also come along two years later and should be at least at par with what is available now from apple.
If you were to buy a car from a brand new manufacturer, and it didn't come with things all other cars have now, like rollup windows, air conditioning, a radio, etc, I don't think you'd be fine just waiting for them to take their time over years to develop them as other car manufacturers had to, you'd expect them to be in place now.
Palm knew what is currently available in the marketplace, and they have to build to that level or better.
??????
Im perfectly happy with my Pre. The phone does everything I need it to do now and it will be great once video recording becomes available. The OS is killer and the phone is actually FUN to use. I find it funny when customers like the one in the video say that the iPhone "just works" while speaking of how they wish they had true multitasking and the ability to do simple tasks like carry a sms conversation with multiple people seamlessly. My phone does that. Going between any off my apps is simple and snappy. In fact, sometimes Im amazed at how many cards I will have open without realizing it because of no slowdown. Notifiers never interrupt what Im doing. I don't have to close my music to look at a map or browse the web. Palm EMBRACES the homebrew community and true open source development. In short, I believe between the two phone the Pre is the phone that "just works". Pre owners dont seem to gripe about functions they dont have because we know they are coming. We know the app store is going to keep growing. We know that video will become available. We know that Flash support is coming. We know that despite not having those features the phone funstions VERY well. It works well enough to make one forget about what I dont have.
Glad to see the hardware/software compared, but it's more than these - it's also the carrier. Given the iPhone is sometimes hampered by poor performance of the AT&T network, it can be a slick device - but useless in some areas of high traffic.
Rating of a device has to include the carrier in the equation.
Carriers vary by location. You complicate things too much by bringing up carrier in these kind of comparisons.
Totally agree. It's important to look at carriers too. But that soooo needs to be saved for another discussion.
right now it just boils down to personal preference.. and the fact that the pre has actually managed to accomplish this when stacked up against the iphone juggernaut says alot..
basically, if you want the best multitasking, non-intrusive notifications, and prefer a physical keyboard, then the pre wins hands-down.. and these are all the things i want..
sure, the iphone does have its advantages.. first and foremost, app junkies will point out the 100,000+ apps in their app store.. which is impressive to say the least.. but in terms of practical everday usuage, the palm app catalog has you covered for the most part.. it's got your twitter, facebook, weather, music apps, movie apps, resteraunt apps, and etc.. the things people typically use in everday life.. now beyond that, there's bound to be a couple apps on the iphone that you're interested in (for me that's skype and maybe shazam) but not enough to outweigh the basic advantages of the webOS.. especially when the palm app catalog is continuing to grow.. and yea, they got the games right now, but once again, that's just preference.. cell-phone games arent my thing but some people really like them so i can understand the advantage there..
bottomline, some people just dont know how great multitasking and webOS's notification system is until they use it everyday on a phone like the pre.. you want to stream music from pandora while surfing the web?.. go ahead.. you can even control the pandora app without ever leaving your current app.. you want to confirm some info before you finish your email?.. no prob, just open another card or two and not miss a beat.. even swipe back and forth between the cards to compare notes.. want to juggle text messeging, IM's, facebook, and twitter seemlessly?.. the Pre has you covered.. turn your notifications on, sync up your IM account, and dive right in.. there are no roadblocks.. this is what true multi-tasking is about.. the Pre offers this right out the box.. the exciting part is that even more improvements and refinements are on the way..
Ok to be total honest with you after seeing this review i can truely say that if i had an iphone i would most likely commit suicide lol.. the notification system is horrible the UI looks ugly just a list of apps, no multitasking, no flash support..thank god for webOS and my pre. i can never go to any other platform after WebOS!!!
Honestly I love my Palm Pre, but wish we had the gaming capabilities that the iPhone has!!! iPhone app catalog is a big draw also, Pre's apps are lagging!!!You can't deny the lure of the iPhone, but Palm Pre is definitely becoming one of the top contenders!!! The multi-tasking on the Pre is excellent,the camera is wicked fast and I just enjoy the Pre experience! Okay Palm gives us Pre users CAMCORDER capabilities, with flash coming, Pre is going to be the phone to have!!!
I am having fun with my son's iPhone doing the same comparison.
Great first round.
What I need is for Synergy to search the calendar, without using a Homebrew App.
Also, I get a 60% success rate when attempting to open the upper right WiFi, bluetooth, airplane mode roll down screen.
Bluetooth backward compatibility with 2008 Infinity FX is marginal and buggy. Probably car software,but my wife's new little Sanyo cell gets on and off flawlessly and quickly.
Battery life was known at purchase, but with replaceable battery, it's livable, since not used for business.
I love the Pre and the way it handles notifications and while I don't care too much for apps, (just give me the basics and I'm fine. PC has tons of applications but I don't need them all, same goes for my smartphones needs too), but I do wish the Pre had some better quality of apps. The iPhone is really like a mini pc. I don't think we'll be seeing things like Koi Pond for a while with this limited SDK access for the Pre. For now though, I'm fine with having my Pre be my workhorse and have iPod touch for relaxing apps. I can't use the iPod touch browser anymore because the Pre looks better. Even the Precentral mobile site looks better on Pre than the iPhone browser.
I rarely if ever get involved in these types of discussions because you will always have fanboys from either side throwing stones at each other.
I truly think that if you want to have a fair comparison between the two devices, a timeline/life history style comparison should be done.
To clarify:
iPhone
The first iPhone launched june of 2007 in 4 and 8gb flavors. The processors powering the phones were underclocked to run at 400-412mhz with access to 128mb worth of dram. The camera was a 2mp affair with no flash and the app catalog had yet to be even thought of.
Pre
Launched june of 2009 with 8gb of onboard storage (of which users only have access to 7gb), a processor underclocked to 500mhz with access to 256mb of dram. The camera is a 3.2mp unit with flash. The app catalog was avail from launch.
I could go on and on, but if you compare the timelines of these two devices. It's easy to see that the Pre is much further along than the iPhone was at the same point in its early life. But any level headed person with enough skill to goto wikipedia or any other site where the histories of both devices can be easily found will see what I am trying to point out. Apple has a two year headstart with their iPhone but Palm is moving very fast.
Can you give a good reason why the comparison mustn't start with the 2007 iPhone vs. the first Treo smartphone from 2002? Or the 2004 Treo 650, the first one developed by Palm? By that measure, it took Palm 5 to 7 years to get to where it is today. I think these comparisons are idle and only interesting for fans. A consumer who wants to buy a phone today will want to know what's available today.
This article very clearly states that it is a comparison between the iPhone (without making specific mention of which generation/version) and the Palm Pre. So why should I include devices that are not even mentioned?
My reply was in the context of: First gen iPhone vs first gen Palm Pre. If my post was not clear enough in its wording, then their really isn't much more I could do to clarify.
exactly! stupid fanboys!
btw i wanted to buy a PC and wanted to know which is better, so i compared first generation of Apple computer (apple I)with first generation of Acer computer, i know there is about 10 years difference but hey, im not a fanboy right?
I love my Pre too!! Its on the right path and when it has as long as the iphone has had in the smartphone game it will be way ahead. There have been some great points and ideas on this post but what everyone is over looking is the monthly price to have each of these devices. I pay about $80 a month and have unlimited EVERYTHING iphone users HAVE to pay atleast $130 from what I'm told. Not to mention that AT&T phone service and customer service are the worst in the country. I've had AT&T so I know first hand.
The iPhone's notifications would surely drive anyone who gets a lot of messages bonkers and was a big put-off for me. Not as big a disincentive as being tied to iTunes though. For me Apple never recovered from the DRM debacle in the early days of MP3 players that put me off ever buying an iPod.
The one thing I respect and fail to understand about the iPhone is how the scrolling is so damned smooth - even Tegra-based phones fail to match it. IMO the Pre is the closest contender. I used to love the days when I would see someone with a new phone and be like "wow, what's that? let's have a play", but those days are long gone thanks to the ubiquity of iPhones (people still love checking out my Pre though), their owners still believe the hype though which is testament to Apple's (some might say cynical) advertising genius.
I keep going on about apps being largely useless and I apologise, but as the inevitable and tedious end-of-year 'best of' lists clog up the media and I see what people are voting as their favourite iPhone apps of the year, I have to say I am totally underwhelmed and certainly see no reason to switch. Also, the apps that prove to be 'essential' invariably end up as standard on future handsets. Instead of poaching Apple's former employees Palm should go after their PR team. Goebbels himself would be impressed.
My only real gripe with Palm (rather than the hardware) is the US-centric approach they seem to be taking. OS updates earlier than Europe, and the less said about the app catalogue the better.
I wonder what you mean by Apple's DRM debacle? Back in the day, DRM wasn't Apple's idea, but a requirement by the music industry. Still, Apple had the most reliable and liberal DRM on the market. And if you didn't like it, you could ignore it and still use your iPod by just importing your CDs and mp3s. In the end, Apple forced the music industry to abandon DRM completely. What exactly drove you away?
It wasn't just their DRM - Fairplay is still alive and kicking for movies and TV shows, which was not an issue in 2001 but is now. I want to do what I like with things I pay for. The whole idea of a closed 'eco-system' locking people in, which the iPhone perpetuates is abhorrent to me.
The Pre's got it's flaws, but the awesome ability to multitask and go to another program without closing the one you're in makes it so that I could never have an iPhone.
Thanks for the video, I know now why I still don't like the iPhone, it is too simple. I use WM, and tho it is past its prime, I like being able to change settings for my needs. The fact that I can't have the iPhone configure to my way of doing things is the biggest deterrent. Pre and webOS on the other hand has real promise, I look foreword to the second gen hardware.
I use to be with AT&T and tried the iPhone thing. Granted they have improved over what I used, but I just couldnt get past AT&T. Also, lets face it, most apps are junk. That includes the Pre's apps. When I left AT&T I swiched to Sprint. My last phone was the Instinct. I actualy enjoyed it more that the iPhone. When I upgraded to the Pre, it was a whole new expirence. Using the Pre was like being set free. I love it, I only hope they continue to improve.
To clairify something someone else wrote. When multitasking, most apps continue to operate in the background. Notifications and updating your GPS position. You just can not have two card visible at the same time. Like running trapster (another useless app, kinda fun though) in the background. You still get the sound alerts and it continues to track were you are. Other apps give you alerts on the screen if you leave them open in the background. Of course the battery doesnt hold up long doing this. The iPhone cant do that.
WebOS vs iPhone OS...I like them both. I have a Pre and an iPod Touch. They both are great.
I love my Palm Pre..........but using my wife's Apple ipod touch in the past couple of days making me envy all of the iphone users with how smooth and quick the screen works and how responsive it is! Dear Palm, one of your #1 priority in your upcoming model(s) needs to be making the webos faster and more responsive like the iphone! Lastly, we do need a good video recorder. Thank you!
I love my pre..even though i dropped it off the couch on the carpet and the damn screen was unrspnsive. I then had to take to Sprint to get a replacement. Anyone else have that same problem? A restart or a full restore still didnt work. I m waiting on the them to have an active background. Example:..have your listed appointments show on the home screen in the background..that would be sweet!
Or like the HTC Touch Smart dialing...use the phone keypad to look up numbers and then dial instead of flipping out the keyboard everytime to find a contact!!
The Pre Rules!!!
just give me a better video recorder
This intro addressed most of my gripes about both of the devices: I love the sturdy hardware of my iPod Touch, but greatly prefer a hardware keyboard. Plus, the inability to turn off accelerometer-driven landscape/portrait switching drives me nuts in iPhone OS. All said, though... there are times that I still lust over the iPhone. To be honest, if iPhone supported push-Gmail, I may have switched already. With it being two full versions ahead of Pre in terms of OS, it is easy to drool over its feeling of refinement and maturity. But I still hold out hopes that Palm with ramp up the development pace and start closing that gap...
Though the iPhone is an excellent product, it is far from being superior as the general public seem to think. This is all due to genius marketing. And for that alone I admire Apple as a company. As for the Pre, I love the multi-tasking, notifications, user interface, Homebrew patches.
Things that will make the Pre perfect or at least close to perfect:
1. Speed: this device can be annoyingly slow when opening apps. "Too many cards open" error when only one to three are actually open. This minimizes my appreciation of multitasking. Palm please speed up the OS. What ever the problem (GPU access?) FIXED NOW!
2. Love the customization homebrew patches give me. But the frustration of uninstalling every time I get an update is an irritant. Led notification, close slider to end call/close phone app, etc. Make all these features users can enable or disable rather than burying in codes.
3. Built quality. COME ON!!! This is a first generation product, but Palm is known for quality product so I can't let this pass. I'm also on my Third Pre. All of which have been replace due to slider, screen bleed, and dead pixels problems.
Due to all the Pre short comings I can understand why folks are skeptical to come over to WEBOS. Analysts are saying the company won't be around in ten years and that the phone is a failure. All these brings negative publicity which is all bad news for a new product. It's not a matter of will, it's a matter of when and how soon palm can address these short comings. For those who are skeptical, all I say is "Once you go WEBOS, you'll never go back. And that's all very true for me.
The Pre UI is far superior to anything out there, but the sluggishness at which it processes command prevents it from being revolutionary. The iphone will continue to be a market leader until a product comes out that can best it in every category. I believe WEBOS is the only OS out there capable of doing so. I just which Palm acts quickly or some large company with lost of CASH (HP) can do what palm seem financially incapable of doing.
iPhone does a lot well, but I'm really not a fan when I've played with it. Just somehow does not work the way I want it to...
I've had both the iPhone and the Pre (actually 3 Pre's, trying to get one with no hardware issues) and both are great devices; it really comes down to personal preference as someone posted earlier. I ended up staying with the iPhone due to the build quality. But I miss a lot about the Pre as well. Both are great - shame most people can't like one without feeling the need to slam on the other or throw the ignorant "fanboy" term at those who prefer a different platform.
I agree. I'm sure I'd love an iphone and miss a lot about the Pre if I were to switch. Heck, I miss a couple of things about my crappy Samsung Instinct!
The Iphone will always be a temptation for me, but there will always be negatives that will have me considering other phones. IT's the best "toy-class" smartphone out there(my label, i want a toy and iphone has the best apps and toy capability out there).
The problem for me is the lack of openness from Apple, and AT&T as the carrier. I hate having my experience ne managed, from Itunes to the horrible managed environnment of the phone itself. There really aren't too many negatives outside of that for me.
the Pre is not as good a toy but the OS is fantastic and the platform is open as can be. Also I don;t hate Sprint as much as I do AT&T. AT&T & Apple are the big negatives for me I guess. I really do dispise both companies.
The lack of apps on the Pre is a huge negative. I hope we get more useful apps.
Late to the party, but let's be fair.
The iPhone is a superior product to the Pre. Yeah, I said it. Of course the caveat is "right now". It may not be the best phone for everyone, but it is a superior product (again, at this time). The Pre in my opinion needs about another year of refinement before being able to challenge the iPhone, but of course the likely thing is the iPhone will be evolving to try to keep the other phones at bay.
What makes the iPhone superior? Superior build quality. Superior refinement of the interface. The smoothness and responsiveness of the iPhone puts the Pre to shame. More intuitive interface. A crazy good ecosystem and the ability to build powerful apps.
The iPhone though, being from Apple, has a bunch of short comings too. Palm (and other companies) can seize upon those to surpass Apple, but it's really fighting and uphill battle since so many people have iPhones now and so many people love them (deservingly). Personally I'm really rooting for Palm to pull through, but I see the future being an all out fight between Apple and Google.
Appwise... as time goes on I've really come to realize that apps don't matter all that much. Most apps (aside from games, which webOS isn't too good at yet) are something you download and fool around with for all of 1 hour before erasing. I mean to be honest the apps I use regularly: Twee, Facebook, Yelp, Tip Calculator, Weather. The ones I use occasionally (1x a week if even that probably): Flixster, PackNTrack, Pandora, MovieDiary, FitTrack, GoogleVoice. The only app I'd use regularly that isn't available: a Fantasy Sports app. Even looking at my friends' iPhones I realize that they don't really have apps they use often except for the ones I mentioned (and games).
you deserve some applause
I think the Pre is just a little young yet, so to speak. Given more time, upgrades, improvements, apps, maybe a 2nd gen handset or two...I love the open platform, it just invites developers to create quality apps.
I dont care for Apple's way: You must buy apple or made for apple and it must be apple approved. I personally dont care how many apps they have, its the quality and usefulness of the application that is important.
I would love to have a Pre.