On The Issue of App Spam 79
Application spam is a very real issue that's been plaguing online application stores (Apple's in particular) for some time now. Some development houses resort to seeding these virtual shelves with hundreds, sometimes even thousands, of the same application with a slight twist or variation in hopes of improving the chances of getting their applications seen. This approach works for a handful of developers, but it is endemic to one of the more unpleasant aspects of Apple's App Store, causing the overall user experience to suffer.
This issue has been discussed and acknowledged by Palm's own Co-Directors of Developer Relations in various presentations and interviews in the past (including a recent keynote presentation delivered at Sprint's 2009 Open Developers Conference), and it appears that Palm's own App Catalog is beginning to see this phenomenon. Anyone who has been monitoring the recent growth of the beta App Catalog are starting to get a better feel for how this works. The business model at issue: build a rudimentary application, make x number variants for it, where x is as large a number as possible.
These developments have lead to some interesting discussion over at the Palm Developer Network forums. Some have been suggesting an outright ban for some of these applications, suggesting that Palm expand its role as the gatekeeper to deem which wares (beyond the already established guidelines of usability and performance) are acceptable for sale and which ones aren't. Others, such as Palm's very own Chuq Von Rospach, have a much more practical outlook.
[...] rhetorical question -- who do you want to decide what you can buy? Do you want to make that decision yourself? Or do you want someone else to start making that decision for you?
And if you do start letting someone else make that decision, what's your recourse when that other entity starts making decision you don't like? [...]
I'd rather give an application a chance to fail in the market any time over having someone (even myself) make a decision it's not worthy of being given a chance to succeed, and as a consumer, I always want the chance to refuse to buy something rather than being told I'm not allowed to consider it.
Be careful what you wish for. You might get it. Me, I'll stick with being inclusive, even of stuff I might not want, and letting the market have a chance to choose success or failure for it.
Personally? Chuq puts it better than I could have, and I firmly agree with his position on the issue. I would rather have the problem of wading through 20 slight variations of the same hockey stats program than having Palm decide, based on hard to quantify metrics, which applications I should be able to buy. ultimately, Market forces will prevail.
Speaking of market forces, Palm appears to have a solution to this problem. They've been talking about a $50 dollar per application fee to create a "friction point" for entry into the Catalog. Can't justify the fifty big ones to get your application published in the official catalog? Then it probably doesn't make much sense for it to be there. This approach is a smart one - it doesn't implement a quality control screen beyond the previously mentioned guidelines, and encourages companies to re-evaluate their approach organically: does it really make sense for us to make 25 localized versions of the same application (25 x $50 = $1250)?
The App Catalog won't be as densely populated as it could have been otherwise, to be sure, but I'm convinced that the products that will be published will be of a higher average quality than if the program were to proceed without any kind of a friction point.
I would like to clarify one thing: I'm very impressed with most of the work that's come out of developers during the Early Access Program. My goal here is to call out the behavior of a few developers currently being published in the Catalog.
Now that I've said my piece, you say yours. Should Palm expand its role as the gatekeeper and decide which applications you should be able to buy and which ones you shouldn't, Or should they utilize a more organic approach, such as per-application fees, to help curb the issue of App Spam?
79 Comments
One solution would be to tell the developer that they can list the application as "Soccer Fan" or whatever and then use the description to state that it is available for your choice of team(s). Of course, this would take additional programming in the App Catalog - including a way to indicate waht team(s) you would like to purchase and then to download the appropriate one(s).
I was thinking of this exact same idea. It's perfect since it doesn't clog the list and allows for every version to stay available upon request.
Consider it, Palm!
The developer very well knows this, but they do it the way they do so that you will notice them. If there was just one app called soccer fan that you could choose any team with, you could easily miss it. They maximize their visibility by making a separate app for every team. This is why they are spam.
Sniiiiiiiiiiiiiiffff? Sniff! Everybody check your shoes, I think somebody stepped in Brighthouse!
agreed, but i also think that with the $50 (only for non-free apps) it would be just as easy to make the $0.99 apps free and market through the free app - thus not solving the crap crowded catalog. i think this is currently palm's tagline for their new commercial airing this month (no offense chuq).
"how will palm increase it's catalog size? there's some crap for that!"
ooooooh we have over 100,000 apps...but wait most of them are iterations of the same junk app. The Palm app catalogue is beginning to become like this with inflated numbers due to developers like Brighthouse Labs. I'd rather have quality over quantity any day. The Palm app catalogue is reaching close to 1000 apps but this milestone feels somewhat unofficial with these spam apps.
Applications has been cheapened as a definition as a system resource. Internet GUI's, clock repackagers, calculator repackagers, photo sets, simple repetitive games with different data sets...these are not applications.
And, before Brighthouse is done, we're going to have a Left-handed, republican, lactose-intolerant, Yankee Fan Application. And twelve other interations for each team. Too much noise, it's noising out useful apps by diluting the catalog with too much distracting crap.
Almost there, but, I'm a Red Sox fan... ;-)
And, before Brighthouse is done, we're going to have a Left-handed, republican, lactose-intolerant, Yankee Fan Application.
at least Palm is getting $50 from this nonsense.
nope - they haven't started charging for submission... it'll probably start in january... hence the flood of crapps.
but I want a right handed, democrat, astros fan app..... Is there an app for that. And if not, brighthouse, can you incclude me and I'll give you the buck I was going to buy coffe with tommorow
I agree completely. I'd prefer it if Palm took charge of their own App Catalog and filtered this rubbish out. He claims that the market should decide if something will succeed or fail but in this case it's just a matter of using common sense. Something like this clearly has no purpose in the App Catalog. Consolidate it to one app or GTFO. Palm, grow a pair and make that decision please, before this gets out of hand.
I really want to see the App Catalog expand and become home to thousands of useful apps. Keyword:useful. There will always be bucketfuls of worthless tip calculators and fart apps and it's those you should let the market decide on, but something like this? Come on Palm. You NEED to do better than that.
definitely like the point about putting in one app or GTFO... then you're not censoring the catalog, your just placing requirements. this way chuq is happy, we are happy, and the dev only has to pay one entry fee (when palm starts charging).
I think they could implement some form of categorizing to the list of apps. Example: If a bunch of apps from the same developer have similar titles, they will all be bunched together; it will display one, and just below it will say something like "more like this one..." that when you click it expands to show the rest of those similar apps in the list. That way it only shows one of the spam apps unless you want to see more. Just an idea.
I was thinking some more on it, and it could use the accordion expanding style for the list showing how many similar apps there are.
Here is a mock up of what I am talking about.
http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww259/eKalb33/SimilarApps.jpg
+1000
That API is already in Luna so for Palm to throw that in should be fairly simple. Of all the ideas I've thought\seen, THIS is my pick for sure! Nice job!
that is a pretty simple yet brilliant solution. Crap Apps from same publisher (Brighthouse) with similar themes could be sub-categorized. Thanks for the pic, it speaks a thousand words and makes your point very clear!
That, and a $50 per app fee will go a long way in getting rid of this crap.
Except for apps that are Free. no fee, for free apps... ;-)
It would be great if Palm could monitor apps like those, and provide just an extra little category when you go into "Football Fan etc" based on apps having the same logo. It could also work with the trial version vs pay version being in a package together. Anyone agree with that approach?
Maybe a way for users to block particular publishers.
I'll second this, a twit filter is exactly what I would recommend for the app store.
I think what needs to happen if it has not been done so already, is give buyers the ability to return the software with in one day or so. It is really depressing when you buy an application only to realize that it's awful but you cannot return it. This makes me/us not willing to give apps a chance. I mean its nice that you have apps like Topple Ball mini but not all apps are like this.
I think this will help in fixing the problem of app spam. I mean who cares if i buy when i can return it within 24 hours.
One potential solution could be having a user driven filter by developer. The filter would have the option to either exclude or include which could be used to filter out applications by developers that you identify as either "spam" or just not relevant to you. On the flipside, being able to filter by a developer would allow to easily find additional apps by developers that you think make Great Apps that are typically of use to you.
Just a thought...
There's a patch for that!
Plus I think all apps should be available as a free trial before you decide to buy it. There are many apps that I would like to try, but don't because I think I probably wont use it. It looked like Palm was going that route in the beginning because they had the "Try It" label opposite the download button back before paid apps. I figured it would be like that when paid apps came out, you could try it first for free, then buy it if you like it.
when you pay $8 to see a movie in the theater, do you ask for refunds if the movie sucks?
Users should look at app reviews, demos, screenshots, before buying Apps. Some people by apps they don't really need, and then complain. For example, just by looking at the screenshots of the apps by brighthouse labs, I can tell they're complete crap. If I decide to submit my $2 to them, then I shouldn't complain
snoopgoat, as a matter of fact, I have done exactly that. I, and my wife, walked out in the middle of the movie, when to the box office and asked for our money back. The manager was more than happy to give it back too.
But, your example is completely apples and oranges. Let's try something a little different and near and dear to all of our hearts!
Let's say you would like to check out the Pre because you've heard so many good things about it on PreCentral. You go to your Sprint store and get one. After 29 days you decide that the Pre just isn't for you. So you go back to the Sprint store and get something else.
That is what I would want, not necessarily my money back, but at least credit for something else.
Over the years I've returned a number of PC software packages for full refund, some to online stores, some to brick and mortar stores, some to developers.
Most movie theaters have a simple form that you fill out and you get your money back. Whether the movie stunk or people wouldn't be quite during the film, it doesn't matter.
well i think thats where movie trailer kinda comes into play...you can see an trailer and you can think huh, thats worth a watch on dvd, or im definitely gonna see that one..or that was just stupid...
I think Palm should do a couple things.
1) Use the idea/currently available patch to allow users to screen out unwanted developers. It still needs some further refinement/incorporation to work properly
- Benefits
* Discourage developers from becoming "spammers" as the people will choose not to see ANYTHING they develop
* Allows the user to trim down what they are seeing as available applications
2) As others have mentioned, have a way for the App Catalog to group the similar entries and make it an "expandable/selective" option if you want to see the other versions.
- Benefits
* Allows the App Catalogue to continue increasing in size... (even if it is junk... numbers matter in this field to the base consumer... perceived value)
*Allows the Developer to continue their practice of individual apps
3) I like the idea of $50 per App as a deterrent from releasing crap
- Benefits
* Forces developer to have at least some "skin in the game" and might discourage junk
* Might force developers to bundle all of the individual functions into 1 program
4) I think that free programs should stay just that free... if a $50 fee per app is enacted.
- Benefits
* Allows developers to provide programs free of charge, provided it is free to download... even if AD supported
* Provides users the ability to have various programs without paying extra
* Allows for free trials to stay free
Just my thoughts on the issue.
bans for app spammers would be great.... these "brighthouse labs" apps would make one amazing super app (with an option to couse a team rather than have an app for each one.)
and i think all these free "dumb down" versions should go away in favor of giving end users a 24 hour return policy for paid apps...
200 GREAT APPS are always better that 1000 "spam apps"
I'll go even further to say that 20 GREAT apps are always better than 1000 spam apps.
Check out this new patch that "hides" crap vendors. It can't get rid of it (the developer certainly tried) but it dims them to the point that you can barely see them. Makes a huge difference
http://forums.precentral.net/webos-patches/220335-patch-hide-app-vendors...
I like two of the suggestions - the free trial and the return right. Even though there are not as many apps, there are already way too many of the same thing over again for me, and we are just getting started.
I am glad that we are discussing this because it has become a tad bit ridiculous.
The real solution to this is to have in-app purchases like the iPhone--you get the hockey app or whatever for free, then from inside the app you buy "team packs" or something of that nature.
App spammers should be identified and eliminated.
...by any and all means. ;-) ...ditto for email spammers.
Ban is a bad idea, spam is as natural on internet as butter and bread. It totally inappropriate for palm to act as a judge in this situation.
There are things palm can do, such as allow people to rate product they didn't buy separately, and allow app catalog to sort apps that way. This should greatly lower the in-your face spam.
all in all, palm acting as judge is as worse as it could be, and I do NOT like anything like that to happen, I wouldn't mind to switch my smartphone to protest such idiotic action if it were to happen.
I would disagree with this being a rhetorical question. I do agree that it should be up to the consumer on whether to buy an app or not. However, I think that where I buy the app is the issue here. Palm has stated that it's app catalog will not be the only method or source for distribution of WebOS applications. If this is indeed the case then, app spam could be removed from Palm's app catalog and yet can still be available via third-party sources not related to Palm's app catalog. Palm will have to make decisions regarding what applications are in it's app store. And they will have to act as gatekeepers. Remember the shake the baby app that was briefly on Apple's app catalog. Like it or not. Want to or not. Palm is the gatekeeper of what appears in it's catalog.
+1
Palm needs to be involved at some point! It will be interesting to see when they choose to step up to the role!
If that's really how you feel, then you must not shop at any grocery store, shopping mall, etc. How do you ever find food?
There is someone at Kroger that decides what brands and specific products they will carry. There are people that make the same decision for Publix, etc. They don't offer exactly the same brands or products from each brand. In fact, one chain sells Jiffy Pop popcorn and the other doesn't. The one that chooses not to sell Jiffy Pop (perfect for camping) happens to sell my favorite salad dressing - the other doesn't.
To use your logic, I shouldn't shop at either store. The only place I could get groceries would be Amazon.com because anyone can offer products there.
Of course, how do you deal with clothing stores that choose to only offer certain brands? I'm guessing eBay is your only option.
Same with restaurants. Some offer only Pepsi, and some offer only Coke. There is a major chain that offers only coke, and only chicken (no beef). So you would have to refuse to eat their because they've decided to not offer beef.
Oh, and gas stations? Each offers a different combination of motor oil brands. And some are selling Diesel fuel while others decide not to.
And some stores take Visa/MasterCard but not Amex. You can never attend the Olympics because they only take Visa.
Dude, the list goes on and on. If I had a store, and you didn't think I have the right to decide what you can buy from me... I wouldn't want you as a customer. I would "decide" to not let you in my store. Ever.
*slowly he walks off to the applause of many that hate Dijit and Brighthouse...
How about Palm actually "test" the apps before it's being put into the app store.
I think that's the bigger issue.
yep. Just by looking at the 200 apps from brighthouse, I don't think palm actually reviewed every one of those crappy apps. Because, if they did, they would have told them to consolidate them into one app. This will be easier for review.
The truth is these spam apps are good as far as quantity goes. We can't catch up to 100,000 apps developers actually develop 'real' apps. In the end, its the users that get screwed, because when you see 200 spam apps from brighthouse, you giveup scrolling and you just assuem everything is spam
Like others have mentioned, why not let the user be the judge? App spam should be treated much the same as email spam. If a certain percentage of users report a specific app as spam, palm will automatically remove it. Simple.
Filtering spammers is just common sense. Its not a matter of fair access but keeping the catalog clean with high standards, then again the fart apps made their way in so...
Apple may have a load of apps but how many of them are "kraps?"
Facebook lets me hide people / applications that annoy me... it'd be great if Palm would allow me to just click 'hide' for Brighthouse.
Vibing on your facebook comment, Palm can also integrate a like/unlike button. Think of it as reviewing the app without actually having to write a review. Then you can use a 'favorites' filter to sort them.
I do think Palm should be the gatekeeper.. Each app should go through an approval process..
It's one thing to complain that a "Cowbell" app is useless.. Simple- don't buy it.
But to have to wade through 20-30 "Football fan" or "Hockey Fan" apps that simply have a different query to them is just annoying.
Yes you can simply skip through them, but then other authors take the risk of their apps being skipped over in the process, and that's unfair.
I say that if a company is "spamming" which is really what Brighthouse labs is doing, they need to be warned that their apps are not "different enough from one another" to be accepted in the app catalog. If they can't stick to that rule, then they should be denied access to submit in the future.
Originality needs to be recognized.
Please give me a junkapp filter. Just like my email, so I can add the developer to my personal list and keep them out of my way.
I think there are a lot of great ideas here. I like the idea of simply allowing developers to put apps in a "sub folder" or "sub category" then requiring apps of a similar type be put in that category. I like and dislike the $50 fee at the same time. I think it helps eliminate garbage but at the same time prevents some smaller devs from getting the ball rolling. Maybe have the first 5 free then the rest $50. If one developer wants to spam 5 of the same app I won't complain.
While we were all waiting all summer for the app catalog to pick up steam, wasn't there a quote from Palm that the reason it was starting off slow, was because they were looking for QUALITY over quantity?
If so, then what happened?
Re: Refunds
I strongly disagree that consumers should be allowed to to return apps. You're talking about software that cannot physically be returned. It would be necessary to prove that the software is removed from your phone, which means either Palm or the developers would be required to write code that removes the app and sends verification. I do not want devs writing removal code because it would be abused and I believe some devs would write malicious uninstall codes.
Re: Dev Filters
At minimum, users should be empowered to ignore developers that have become a nuisance. As nuisance is a matter of opinion (someone really may want 25 different apps for different teams), this allows flexibility for us end-users, and it keeps Palm's team free from app-policing. I don't think an automated spam blocker (a.s.b.) system similar to email is necessary, though, as it may inadvertently block proper apps. And to avoid writing an a.s.b., Palm would likely have to license a third-party spam-detector, and devote a lot of time working it into the app catalog. I'd prefer Palm to keep developing new phones and improving the more pressing weaknesses in WebOS.
Re: Ratings/Votes
The reason you should only be able to vote for apps which you bought is that this keeps developers from voting down apps with which they compete. With an open-ended voting system where anyone can vote on any app they have not purchased, you will see undeserving apps pushed down by other developers in an effort to stay at the top of the "best rated" list.
I do think this should be worked out before the "Beta" tag is removed from the app catalog.
as for your comment on the refunds, that is a very possible idea. palm already has the ability to remotely remove apps from phones, most likely for mass recalls on buggy apps. They could use this for the return system. I think they should make the customer jump through a few hoops though, or prevent returning a particular app multiple times to prevent abuse.
Charging a fee for the app will increase the pricetags of the apps and make free apps extinct.
Palm does have the ability to remove apps from the device at will, just hasnt gone there yet. Would require effort but they can setup refund requests that would trigger deletion of that app off your device and removed the download again for free tag off you acct. Just require little effort.
if Palm thinks customer should be able to chose between all the apps that are submitted and not between those that Palm deems worthy, then why in hell don't European customers get this right to choose. Why is our catalog still only showing a little over 100 apps? Hate you for that Palm!
Having Palm be a gatekeeper isn't the solution. Apple uses that approach and still gets tons of spam apps and due to the amount of submissions, some developers bugfixes take 4 months to be released and they get fed up. Palm is a much smaller company and would reach that pain point more quickly.
Here's my suggestion:
Sort listings (be they category browsing or searches) by ratings by default. Have a high limit before an app is considered to be rated (eg at least 300) and require all ratings to come from a WebOS phone so that developers can't just rate themselves highly to get to the top. Have a spam filter where you can block a certain app or developer. If you get enough people blocking a certain app(10000)/devloper(1000), it's probably spam, so pull it/ban them. This makes the process relatively pain-free/automated for Palm while getting us to what we want to see.
Palm needs to avoid blocking developers at all costs (even those spamming developers)
I agree with Chuq that the market will eventually work this out, especially w/ the $50 per app limit. I definitely agree that users should be able to block a developer if they choose & I think developers should be able to see how many people have them blocked as an incentive for them to stop making crap. What about a developer rating like Ebay has for sellers. User ratings / comments will move people away from spammers. But at no time should Palm get involved in making that decision for us.
I also want the option for free trials of more apps. Even if it's a simplified not-full-feature version. I don't think user reviews, screen shots & descriptions are enough to make a decision. Free trials should be free to submit as well but should have their own section in the catelogue so you don't have to sift through trials & free apps if you are looking for serious apps.
How about limiting each developer to submitting one app a day? Devs with a 100 apps would take them over three months to submit them all. They may then consider bundling them together to get a quicker return.
And the $50 submission fee for paid apps makes sense too.
I don't understand all the complaining about app spam. We don't walk into the local bookstore and complain that there are too many books on any one subject. We applaud Chapters for having the largest selection. A place where regardless of your taste there is something for you. Why can't the app catalog be the same? These apps are costing us so little, what really should our expectations be? Look, if I buy an app or piece of software for $20 I will expect a certain level of quality. When I spend less then a cup of coffee for any type of software what can I really expect. Developers are in this to make money, as is Palm. The catalog or itunes for that matter are virtual retail stores with shelf space. Each development group is fighting for a piece of that shelf space. The difference between actual retail and virtual retail, is that the virtual retail has an infinite amount of shelf space. This changes the dynamics of the game. It is what is called the Long Tail approach http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.10/tail.html?pg=1&topic=tail&topic... . These so called spam apps will be bought be people looking for that niche content. Why would Palm want to get in the way of this? It makes perfect sense. This is why Apple is proud to have over 100,000 apps and from a business sense Palm will want that as well.
Someone made a point about not giving refunds to people if they don't like an app. They said movie theaters don't give refunds if you don't like the movie. I agree that we shouldn't give refunds once you purchase, but you should be able to try out the app. before you buy. I think it's perfect. Once you find you're using the app and have valuable info in it, you're gonna want to but it so you don't lose any info.I know some apps have videos and other info out about it, but it's not the same. Apps are interactive, so you need to interact with it to to get the experience. Movies are to be watched, so reviewing a trailer of a movie is very appropriate.
I would propose a two-tiered, or multi-tiered, approach for a developer fee, rather than having Palm be a gatekeeper or just charging $50 (or whatever) per app.
First 20 or 25 apps for a developer: $50 fee / app
Over 20 or 25 apps from a developer: $500 or $1000 fee / app
The good app developers out there won't have 20 or 25 apps anytime soon, so the only companies the higher target hits are the spam app companies like Brighthouse Labs.
After some period of time since a developer's first app is submitted (such as a few years), the number of apps to hit the fee increase could be raised - say, at the 3 year point, over 30 apps would be $1000/app. This way we can get good developers to still put apps out there, but effectively cut the spam guys off with monetary penalties.
I've changed me stance..
I think a software trial option is the answer.. Any good app developer will either make an app affordable, or will make a trial or limited version of the app..
At that point you either buy the app for a reasonable price ($1-$4 in my book for "fun stuff" and $5-$10 for business apps) and if you don't like it, you never buy from that author again (unless good reviews on future products warrant it). Eventually they (the spammers) will know it's not worth their time to try selling here.
If a software company has no preview of its software available and you're leery, don't buy it. Try the homebrew or trial version first, or wait for other guinea pigs to try it first.
How about a simple check box (or something) in the App Catalog to let the user choose not to display listings from that particular company. If you bring up an application from a company like Brighthouse and are sick of seeing multiple listings for crap, simply tap a box and remove that company's listings from the Catalog for yourself. Yes, it's easier said than done, but in the end wouldn't it be a simple solution?
I think that's absolute GARBAGE!!! That's my say. This crap is clogging the catalog, making it difficult to sift through on a tiny marginally responsive screen, wastes Palms time they could spend on decent apps and drastically deters me from using the catalog. I will never buy any brighthouse crap, or crap from these people posting pichunter or whatever. And this garbage about who do you want choosing what you can buy? I got no problem with it in this case. It's clearly garbage.
It makes my user experience unpleasant and it one of many things pushing me away from Palm.
That and i so wish the last palmcast hadn't just glossed over clearly all the user emails so they could talk about boring stuff like cdma vs gsm or sdk blah blah blah for the 100th time. That stuff doesn't really affect me that much in my use.
I use 2 apps everyday to check weather and traffic in my travels. Thank goodness they are 2 good apps. I could not imagine having to have a weather or traffic app for every city or state. Do the math 48 states, 3 Canadian provinces, and 3 European countries. That would be a ludicrous number of apps. The way I see it you only need 1 sports app to follow The Crimson Tide!
Eh, they should be allowed, but I do think something needs to be done.
I totally understand Palm's position. They can't appear to play favorites so it's either reject a lot or reject nothing reasonable.
Personally I think it should be all developers should be allowed to list up to 3 applications for free each month. That means a developer can release 36 apps a year "for free", which seems more than reasonable.
If you want to list more than 3 in one month, you get charged. $20 * how much you want to charge for the app.
Finally if the app costs > $100, Palm needs to review those personally. When will this ever come up? People trying their "I Am Rich" applications and hoping some sucker will buy their app by accident. That's freaking annoying.
This should stop all the app spam. So Brighthouse and Europa will have to pay a bunch of money or just consolidate their apps into fewer apps.
I am actually sick of seeing the Brighthouse and Europa apps just like everyone.
Great idea, +1
I just did a search in the app catalog for brihouse to see how many apps they have.. And it crashed!! App Catalog Unavailable.. Either palms taking action or that's a lotta Krapps
everyone wants their own 'fairness' model adopted..
I think the answer is simple, allow the user to 'swipe' certain apps off their list. To me, this would be VERY useful. I may download an app, hate it, delete it and never want to be reminded of my mistake. It seems to me that the info required for our phones to 'remember' which apps we've swiped off the screen would be minimal, and kept with our palm profiles.
I dont think we can, or should, rely on anyone but our own selves to determine what should and should NOT be in OUR catalogs.
Additional filters, by developer, cost, rating, etc should be available to a user also.
As far as refunds/trials: if a dev doesnt offer a trail, tough cookies. Why expect a refund? You dont have to buy apps to make the phone work, theyre extras, and should be chosen with care. It also adds a level of complication to what should be simple. After a short time, I think apps will take on their own world and reputation for usefulness. This is where quality > quantity comes in also.
Im not sure the $50/submission will work very well. Ad supported, cheap, CRapps can still generate enough collective revenue to return on a substantial investment, especially when you're looking at 100k+ downloads! I know that a million downloads of a $1 app != a million dollars, but a million downloads of an adware that kicks back a few cents per download, coupled with the actual retail revenue... $50 wouldnt be hard to make back in a hurry, even if its spam, all it takes is a clever title.
In the end, we shouldnt have filtered apps in our catalog, but we should be able to filter and reduce clutter ourselves on our devices.
I think there is a better way to implement the gateway tax on app entry. I think the fee should be even higher. Say 100 - 200 dollars an app. Then offer some form of rebate based off of sales. Say a dollar an app download or something. This rebate could be tiered based off of the initial cost of the app with higher costing apps receiving a larger discount since they are likely to sell less.
By doing it this way, you create a barrier to entry, but you don't end up costing the good developers hardly anything as any decent app should be downloaded at least 100 times.
I actually bought the Los Angeles Hockey fan app when I first saw it. What a joke. They should ban that developer straight out.
First, I applaud palm for being very open in their submission policy.
It's already been said, but I'll cast my vote:
1. $50 an app is perfect, but only do it for paid apps please (people aren't going to waste time overwhelming the store with app spam for free apps)
1.b. Please charge this retroactively on the apps already in the catalog (or maybe give them a highly discounted price of $10-$25 even). Might help clean things up.
2. Allow people to easily block certain developers from showing up.
Perhaps you should set up a poll to get a better count of feedback on ideas? Might actually provide Palm with some useful user data.
I see Chuq
Well, there is someone that decides what I can buy from regular stores like Sears, Best Buy, or even Burger King. Why would it be so problematic for someone at Palm to determine when an app developer is harming their brand?
If Best Buy decided that a manufacturer was harming them or their customers, they would be justified in removing them from store shelves and refusing to carry them.
That's why we just now got Palm phones for Verizon. Someone at Verizon decided if/when to offer Palm phones. Same thing for other vendors.
I can't buy a WebOS devices from several carriers. That's their prerogative. Palm has the same right to decide who helps them sell more phones, and who harms their customers...
I like the idea of $50-$100 per app, but I'm also fine with having Palm ban the spammers.
I also think the App Catalog needs a refund mechanism. If everyone could get a refund after they downloaded Brighthouse or Dijit crapware before noticing the poor ratings... that would take the profit motive out. You can tell that they are making decent money by getting sales from newbies or others that don't realize yet that they are sending a dollar to a crapware spammer.
We should be able to get a refund when that happens.
I'm actually tempted to challenge some of my early purchases with my credit card company, based on the lack of app reviews (because you can't review them unless you've already bought them...) - which is another aspect of the App Catalog that palm needs to deal with...
To those of you that think it is immoral for Palm to have any control over their catalog...
You must not shop at any grocery store, shopping mall, etc. How do you ever find food?
There is someone at Kroger that decides what brands and specific products they will carry. There are people that make the same decision for Publix, etc. They don't offer exactly the same brands or products from each brand. In fact, one chain sells Jiffy Pop popcorn and the other doesn't. The one that chooses not to sell Jiffy Pop (perfect for camping) happens to sell my favorite salad dressing - the other doesn't.
To use your logic, I shouldn't shop at either store. The only place I could get groceries would be Amazon.com because anyone can offer products there.
Of course, how do you deal with clothing stores that choose to only offer certain brands? I'm guessing eBay is your only option.
Same with restaurants. Some offer only Pepsi, and some offer only Coke. You would have to refuse to eat at any restaurant that doesn't offer both Pepsi and Coke... There is a major chain that offers only coke, and only chicken (no beef). So you would have to refuse to eat their because they've decided to not offer beef or Pepsi?
Oh, and gas stations? Each offers a different combination of motor oil brands. And some are selling Diesel fuel while others decide not to.
And some stores take Visa/MasterCard but not Amex. You can never attend the Olympics because they only take Visa.
The list goes on and on. If I had a store, and someone didn't think I have the right to decide what they can buy from me... I wouldn't want them as a customer. I would "decide" to not let them in my store. Ever.