Jon Rubinstein sends message to HP staff; Addresses TouchPad reviews | webOS Nation
 
 

Jon Rubinstein sends message to HP staff; Addresses TouchPad reviews 199

by Tim Stiffler-Dean Fri, 01 Jul 2011 4:28 pm EDT

In an internal email sent out to HP staff, Jon Rubenstein (Senior Vice President and General Manager, Palm Global Business Unit) has reached out to his employees to address a growing concern from the reviews of the HP TouchPad (read ours here), reviews that say the device is too slow and laggy, that the number of apps available just aren't enough, and that the hardware is not up to par with the competition. But it's those same reviews, he says, that line up with what HP believe is true and talk about "signs of greatness" for the device (from David Pogue at New York Times).

It is clear that HP, all the way up to the former CEO of Palm (and beyond) are reading the reviews from people in the tech world, and Rubenstein let his staff know that OTA updates are on the way soon to address a majority of complaints that are found in those reviews. At the end of his memo he compared the review of the TouchPad and webOS 3.0 to another company that he is very familiar with; Apple's Mac OS X received the same criticism from the same critics just 10 years ago, and now the company is on top in a way that is nearly unreachable. Rubenstein says, HP's webOS is in the same position now, and has a lot of greatness ready to push it forward.

Click through the break to read the entire email from Rubenstein. With the amount of effort that has been poured into marketing and building the tablet device (which was started one year ago), we'd like to think that Rubenstein's words will ring true over these next few weeks. Though, there's no doubt about it, we'd love to see these updates come sooner, rather than later.

Team,
 Today we bring the HP TouchPad and webOS 3.0 to the world.  The HP team has achieved something extraordinary – especially when you consider that it’s been just one year since our work on the TouchPad began in earnest.  Today also marks the start of a new era for HP as our vision for connected mobility begins to take form - an ecosystem of services, applications and devices connected seamlessly by webOS.
 If you’ve seen the recent TouchPad reviews you know that the industry understands HP’s vision and sees the same potential in webOS as we do.  David Pogue from the New York Times says “there are signs of greatness here.” (I’ve included links to David’s review and others below.) You’ve also seen that reviewers rightly note things we need to improve about the webOS experience. The good news is that most of the issues they cite are already known to us and will be addressed in short order by over-the-air software and app catalog updates.  We still have work to do to make webOS the platform we know it can be, but remember…..it’s a marathon, not a sprint.
 In that spirit, Richard Kerris, head of worldwide developer relations for webOS, reminded me yesterday of the first reviews for a product introduced a little over ten years ago:
 "...overall the software is sluggish"
 "...there are no quality apps to use, so it won’t last"
 "...it's just not making sense...."
 It’s hard to believe these statements described MacOS X - a platform that would go on to change the landscape of Silicon Valley in ways that no one could have imagined.
 The similarities to our situation are obvious, but there’s also a big difference. Like David Pogue, our audiences get that webOS has the potential for greatness. And like me, they know that your hard work and passion, and the power of HP’s commitment to webOS, will turn that potential into the real thing

Team,

 Today we bring the HP TouchPad and webOS 3.0 to the world.  The HP team has achieved something extraordinary – especially when you consider that it’s been just one year since our work on the TouchPad began in earnest.  Today also marks the start of a new era for HP as our vision for connected mobility begins to take form - an ecosystem of services, applications and devices connected seamlessly by webOS.

 If you’ve seen the recent TouchPad reviews you know that the industry understands HP’s vision and sees the same potential in webOS as we do.  David Pogue from the New York Times says “there are signs of greatness here.” (I’ve included links to David’s review and others below.) You’ve also seen that reviewers rightly note things we need to improve about the webOS experience. The good news is that most of the issues they cite are already known to us and will be addressed in short order by over-the-air software and app catalog updates.  We still have work to do to make webOS the platform we know it can be, but remember…..it’s a marathon, not a sprint.

 In that spirit, Richard Kerris, head of worldwide developer relations for webOS, reminded me yesterday of the first reviews for a product introduced a little over ten years ago:

 "...overall the software is sluggish" 
"...there are no quality apps to use, so it won’t last" 
"...it's just not making sense...."

 It’s hard to believe these statements described MacOS X - a platform that would go on to change the landscape of Silicon Valley in ways that no one could have imagined.

 The similarities to our situation are obvious, but there’s also a big difference. Like David Pogue, our audiences get that webOS has the potential for greatness. And like me, they know that your hard work and passion, and the power of HP’s commitment to webOS, will turn that potential into the real thing.

Thanks, Anonymous!

199 Comments

yawn

Yawn-boy, keep in mind that the world leader in tablets took 2 years tondevelop the iPad, launched it with an older version of iOS than the iPhone at that time and had nothing remotely as multi-tasking or touch to share. To date, they only do fast app switching and sell that as multitasking. The truth is the iPad is fast and stable because Apple is risk averse. Maybe they will come out with a new UI or real multitasking one day but not right now.

While I think it was a mistake to ship with some of the flaws webOS 3.0 is far from being another Vista. And the enterprise customers that will buy the majority of these devices probably have no problem with the update coming in a week or two.

So, yawn all you want and tell us what you think of the improvements in the TouchPad when you wake up.

The problem here is, as the anonymous RIM executive pointed out, nobody gives a **** about "true multitasking." They didn't care about it on the Pre. They didn't care about it on the Pixi. They didn't care about it on the PlayBook.

What makes you think the TouchPad will be any different?

When you robotically refer to it as "true multitasking" and beat people over the head with it, I agree. But I think when you spin it as "effortlessly move between your apps," it sells. And not by bragging about it, just showing it.

Their newer advertising is pulling this off a bit better by not really saying "multitasking." They just show folks interacting with it. Zipping around doing stuff. It's easy. So easy you don't even realize you're "multitasking."

In that case I think people will react with "Huh. That looks smoother than my [computer/Android/iPhone/etc]," and stick with them.

The funny thing is, I didn't know how much I used multitasking. webOS is so fluid & easy to use, I simply took multitasking for granted. I say this because after these less than stellar reviews, I decided I should go check out the iPad. I spent an hour or so there w/a young tech geek that really showed me around iOS. As a side note, he also knew more about webOS than any BestBuy, Walmart or Sprint employee I have met.

Anyway, once I started using the iPad, I immediately tried to open multiple apps & websites. I just couldn't do it. He showed me a slick way of putting an app or screen behind another app/screen & how you could switch between them, but it took more strokes, wasn't as fluid or natural...AND, I could only do it w/two apps.

Until I used an iPad, I never knew how much I liked webOS and how much I enjoyed multitasking, even if I didn't realize it & had taken it for granted.

Touchpad has the card interface, but Apple's not standing still.

iOS 5 with multitasking gestures provides near instantaneous switching between tasks versus the five seconds touchpad takes to switch between tasks with the sluggish card interface.

TouchPad takes 5 seconds and iOS 5 does that instantly? really? on what devices?

I can appreciate the notion that Apple will have something eventually, but comparing a non-existent iOS 5 device to the TouchPad is a little silly.

i think it sells you. I doesn't sell most people. I mean i rarely use two apps at once. it's not a big deal. But even so i've tried android and ios and it's good enough. And that's the big thing. For most people are NOT upset with the solutions on other platforms. It's a one sided fight. Pre people are argueing about multitasking and the users of other platforms are like, "Why are you yelling."

Because this has marketing?
Because playbook threads on engadget get sub 100 comments, touchpads get 500+? (I'm sure my numbers are off, not bothering to look)
Because this is an enterprise device?(You can argue that the playbook is as well, but considering it doesn't have an email client...)

Bitching about it on day 1 doesn't make a lot of sense. Let's revisit our complaints in 30 days.

Can you explain your 'playbook threads on engadget sub 100 comments, touchpads get 500+'?

RIM and Android/Google have different clients than webOS. Largely, they purchased the phone/tablet to do a job, not because they want to buy into a different OS.

They are just not passionate about their OS or hardware, because they dont care. They are not tech people, they are average joes, not people who troll engadget/precentral/androidcentral etc.

Therefore the number of comments is irrelevant.

Humblepie "They are not tech people, they are average joes, not people who troll engadget/precentral/androidcentral etc."

Actually, I consider them to be tech guys, they buy a device for a capability and are willing and capable to learn the technique to make it work. Touchpad is more for the mid-market. People that need a simplified, capable interface. Like the Mac buyers of old. WebOS is user advanced. Android is technically advanced. Most of the techie "early adopter" types are gone from PreCentral ranks. The ones that did advanced things with Treo's, the ones that remembered power-apps. Most off to another o/s.

2 things come out from your comment there:
- that executive remained anonymous.
- and they probably failed because of this attitude from their executives?!

It's past your bedtime.

I guess I'm a **** but I would ban people on the spot with "yawn" comments and "First!" comments.

no you're just a mature adult.

This is the Pre- Launch all over again...

Questionable hardware and the OS is not ready and will have to be fixed by Updates that will be ready soon... It's amazing really, they are doing the same thing over again!

If they knew about all the issues the reviewers described, why not have them addressed before launch? You get one chance for a first impression, the Engadget video review is the worst where programs were freaking out on it and some never loaded during the entire 5 min video.

I want webos to succeed badly, but this is not helping. I would wait for TP price drop before buying it, it has to be coming pretty soon.

We still believe in you ruby. Just please get those OTA updates out asap and kick those guys over at Engaget in the balls. kthx

If this gets followed by an underwhelming Pre3 release then Ruby is "cooked".

I truly feel that Ruby is the major cause of the problems (for lack of a better word) with the entire program - Fire this Guy and let's see some forward movement for the future.

I hate to admit it, but I feel that you may be right. When I hear Rubinstein say that he's never touched a iphone or any competing products for that matter, I'm just baffled. He claims he doesn't want to be "tainted by others," but how can you be competitive with others if you don't even know what exists out there?

True words, man.

I get the feeling his contract was part of the sale. Hopefully it's only a 3 year deal or less.

Are you crazy? Rubinstein is why webOS still exists as a brilliant OS. There has certainly been a struggle to get this device to market strong and the Palm years were underfunded and no doubt excruciating with poor marketing results.

He is proven, the success of the iPod led to the iPhone which led to the iPad. The iMac success influenced Macbook design which is lowering forward. With a commitment from HP (rushed in its FIRST year) the future of webOS couldn't be better positioned.

Sure a delayed release that is stronger would have been great but these things are barely simple.

Rubi is high tech death. Ipod was a simple product. Pre was focused on complex solutions for problems people didn't know they had. Brilliant, but Pre just could not do the basics. TP comes up short on the basics too and like the Pre, it lacks focus. Pre was the professional phone that had all the 3D games that mommies love to play.

Beats audio, touchpad, Touch to share with no phones, Boxers, comedians, tennis players....just what your enterprise needs. But if they have to draft and revise the enterprise contracts on the Touchpad, they wont sell a single unit.

Is this real people soon, or HP soon?

I was at BestBuy today w/an HP Rep & he said they were just told to expect a major OTA update on the 24th of July that would include TTS, atc. Take it for what it is worth...

My BB webOS rep kept saying July 10. Pass the salt.

I just came from Best Buy. Yes it is slightly thicker then the iPad 2 and the plastic on the back is a mistake, but it did not feel cheap or inferior compared to the iPad 2. The user interface hands down beat the iPad. I would take the user interface over the slight .2 lb difference any day.

The only thing at this point that is a huge plus for the iPad is apps. My inlaws just asked me what I thought they should get and i told them the iPad. If it was 3 months down the road and I heard that Pivot was taking off then, for sure the touch pad.

I just think the extra weight and plastic back aren't that big of a deal. The lack of Apps are and they will be coming. The doom and gloom around this launch is a joke. This thing is near the top of the class, all it needs is apps.

He said the apps problem was for real so chill. I also went to bestBuy today & neither the weight or the plastic back bothered me. In fact, I liked the way it felt in my hand; however, they need to get document editing & other apps--Netflix, SlingBox, etc. The guy @sdvike was responding to complained about the weight & the plastic. I agree w/@sdvike those issues were not a big deal to me. The apps are.

you might be retarded. native touchpad apps are what counts here.. so far it's been out for one day and already has more than honeycomb.

I played w the touchpad at best buy - the device is a brick.

It's heavier and thicker than the iPad 2 - and actually thicker than the iPad 1

The plastic case didn't feel overly cheap, but it didn't bespeak quality like the iPad or iPad 2.

Of greater on CONCERN was the dim screen - the touchpad is nowhere near as bright as the iPad 2 - prob. Just a trick to eke decent battery life out of the touchpad.

So you touched it finally to help your unbiased credibility. Congrats. Now beat it (again ;-)

It was unbiased - sorry to say.

The trashpad needs several OTA Updates and a hardware redesign.

If there's going to be an OTA update in two - three weeks, they should have delayed the launch by three weeks.

Rubinstein touts himself as "Mr. User Experience" - the sluggish and slow touchpad is a torturous user experience.

i own one. and you are absolutely insane. it has hiccups every now and again, most products do at launch. but you would have to be delusional to consider the Touchpad "a torturous user experience."

Yes me too and I think Engadget is less now that Josh Topolsky and his team all left for their new This is my Next blog. Actually, speaking for Josh, he had a bunch of good things to say in his TP review - http://thisismynext.com/2011/06/29/hp-touchpad-review/ and in the end responded

"If HP can convince developers to get behind this product, and the company can laser focus on the end-user experience, becoming the number two player in tablets isn’t as crazy as it sounds. Really."

I read many of the reviews and am still happy with my investment in the future with webOS and HP! Right now, I'm sitting in front of my 32gb TouchPad that comes with dedicated multitasking, synergy, notifications that simply rock, flash, webOS was meant to be on a tablet, and now 50gb of Free Box.net online storage (thank you HP!). I don't think I'll be getting any sleep tonight. ;) Heheee... Sorli...

lol comes with deadicated mulitasking

re: JT. If you read his review and listen to his podcast more closely, you'll see he seems to think it's not a good idea to buy the thing before the over-the-air update comes out to see if they really fixed things as they said they would.

i guess that makes two of us. i was on mine all night... XD

Show me you care and release updates....

well Jonnie "come lately, there's a new kid in town" Rubenstein; I don't pay for potential & vision unless I buy HP's stock. Buying a product is a whole other matter. There is only one time you make a first impression, and the reviewers (whom drive biz to your doors)regard it underwhelming. You have something to chew on when you, Kerris and Uncle Leo go bowling tonite.

we sometimes forget that Ruby used to work for Steve maybe he's ruining webOs intentionally like in some kind of cold war in tech thing

Rubie could be a plant inside HPalm to sabotage Webos while ios catches up. Looks like no one noticed yet.

Even before this memo, I feel HP has been more responsive to the criticisms against webOS.

They have:
* already kicked the design of v2 over to the Envy team
* been actively trying to get tier 1 apps like Kindle and hopefully Netflix and Hulu
* an actual budget to market the device

I would hope that HP had been working on V2 for some time already-- seems like much of the wait has been on software. Where was it said that the Envy team was taking over design of v2?

So how far out do you think V2 is? Think HP will go for an annual refresh, or something more aggressive? I'm guessing they have other products in the pipes, anyhow...

I think you all should hold out on V1. I don't think they can wait a year to refresh the hardware. I give it 6 months before they introduce a sleeker version.

Where did you hear that the 2nd gen TP will be designed by the Envy Team???

If that's true, it's a smart move & I really look forward to the 2nd gen TouchPad.

I saw it here, http://www.webosroundup.com/2011/03/rumor-hp-moving-touchpad-design-away..., and I think there was tweet from Rahul Sood hinting at it also.

Is envy a success cause i haven't seen a lot ppl with it...btw i like the beats edition with a quad-core !!!

HP knew before the TP was released it was a turkey.

They should have held back the release until the OS updates were ready.

I disagree on the "turkey," but I agree they could have delayed a month to get the bugs out.

I disagree, do the math:

Lame Design + Underwhelming hardware + buggy and slow OS = Turkey

Gobble Gobble Gobble

I agree - add to that some of the positives:
- Apparent openness and honesty that it is not perfect - it is great comfort to me that they acknowledge the issues and tell what they are doing about them (I don't believe the leak of Ruby's email was not intentional, or condoned)
- Met the release date promised
- Release of webOS doctor today - so if you do have problems, you can fix it.

I also think that they have a different marketing approach, intentionally not 'Apple'. They are not hyping it for lots of presales, they simply said it was coming out. The advertising is rolling out slowly, which is fine, then they concentrate the advertising when the bugs are fixed and the apps are (hopefully) rollingout.

I did a lot of reading of reviews yesterday and I come away thinking that the Touchpad is already in number 2 position.... what's all the doom and gloom about? I only see it getting better. I came away feeling that Touchpad is not even in the same ballpark as the iPad as far as being a platform for professional use.

Being in Canada I can't wait to get my grubby little paws on one. LOL

Happy Canada day!

HP Gimme that TOUCHPAD!

You must have been reading different reviews than I. I saw a couple that said it potential for #2, but a lot of other ones complained that the hardware was not competitive with the top iOS (iPad) or Android (Galaxy Tab) in terms of thickness and weight.

Then there's just about every review that talks about the 8-10 seconds of OS freeze. The promise of an OTA update in weeks isn't going to make all the reviewers rewrite their pieces to generate consumer interest.

The comparison to OS X is kind of humorous. I'm showing it as having around 10% on my website statistics. That's unofficial of course, but clearly OS X is not a leader in the OS space. Additionally, I'd venture that most people who run OS X do it because of the hardware is extremely high-end and well-polished - considered to be some of the best available for any OS. WebOS has never been on any of the top hardware available. Mr. Stiffler-Dean, OS X is not the reason why Apple "is on top in a way that is nearly unreachable."

Rubinstein must be smoking crack. No one is going to spend $500 on "potential".

People spend $500 on something that works - that's why the ipad has been a runaway success.

Following his OS X comparison - when OS X was just starting out, users had the ability to boot to OS 9 - while kinks were being worked out of OS X.

The touchpad has nothing to fallback on - just webos - if you want people to spend $500 make sure the thing is usable.

Waiting weeks/moths for an OTA update is BS.

Wow some of you guys are really angry? Personally, my TP experience has been nothing but a blessing. I bought my 32gb TP this morning at Best Buy and haven't looked back since.

Actually, that is not completely true. Precentral.net website is so messed up and the Precentral.net (unofficial) app isn't working quite right either, but I can always respond to these posts till they are fixed and those developers have a chance to resolve some of issues we are all having (if you need help, please send me a PM).

Either way, let me make this as clear as possible:

1. webOS Rocks and 3.0 was made for tablets
2. The TP multitasking that has no competition
3. webOS 3.0 Web browser works just like my desktop and includes Flash for the full experience (Hulu is proof of that)
4. Old and new apps all over the place and coming out the wazu (my TP is already stacked from end to end)
5. and finally 50gb of free storage on Box.net (take that iCloud)

How can I not be happy.

Yes I know it needs some work, smooth out the rough spots, but I'm glad HP has gotten as far as they have and I'm looking forward to even more.

Keep up the great work HP/Palm! :) Sorli...

One thing.. a blessing is when a tornado rips through your town and your home is not hit by it. Using a piece of electronics is not and should never be considered a blessing. Other than that, I am happy the TP is working well for you!

Exactly my feelings. The thing is beautiful.

I have a bunch of friends that have decided they really like it over the iPad. A few are fighting hardcore in the Launchline contest on facebook. Even one of my friends has been speaking to people daily to get others to join for his multiplyer.

It does not feel slow, it does not feel cheap, and it is definitly not too heavy.

I also find it very surprising that the sound quality of this thing is not talked about as much as it should be.

A number of the reviewers flat out said the Touchpad was the 2nd best, though imperfect, tablet. Wish the launch was perfect but it wasn't. The biggest problem is the lag and that is potentially quickly fixable (if HP is being honest). The Touchpad's hardware's thickness and material is a person's preference. If it doesn't bother the purchaser then it's irrelevant. I do think Apple has convinced much of the world that their mobile devices need to be aluminum and thin. (Samsung is following Apple's lead and in fact is being sued by Apple)

My tablet is thinner than yours jk

Actually thickness and weight is not solely a preference.

Look at the use cases for a tablet - a thinner device that weighs 1.3 lbs. Is easier to hold and handle than a thick 1.6 lb. Tablet.

Why are you here?

Why not? I was a palm owner for several years, check out the touchpad yesterday and walked away disappointed.

What a WASTE of potential the touchpad is - that's why I refer to it as the HP TrashPad.

I am hoping after reading these reviews and also addressing them, next hardware would be better than any available tablet on market, otherwise Ruby would make another mistake.

Agreed. if it were just the software i would have bought it... I know that the guts are fast and top of the line but the reason i'm choosing to wait for the TP2 is because at launch the TP1 already looks like it's a model from last year. it's already dated by it's weight and thickness. Plus it really frustrates me that they went w/ the shiny back,anybody that looks at that sees how cheep it looks and then something i thought was becoming a standard an "Oileophobic" coating on the screen to prevent so many smudges.

So like i said. you can't update the Hardware over the air if it were just the software I would still have taken the day off of work to purchase the Touchpad b/c i know the potential is there. But the hardware or the general feel and look of the product is not very S3xy at all. :-(

I TRULEY hope they release a TP2 sooner than a year from now b/c i'm already looking forward to that.

Next hardware? Let's see if this thing sells at all.

I agree. They should have come out with a tablet that has specs equal to the Galaxy Tab. Rubi needs to go ASAP. He thinks he can put out products like Apple. First he needs to put out a BETTER product than Apple.

Ironically most of apple's stellar success came AFTER Rubinstein was shown the door.

It's all good Ruby, The TouchPad will smoke the Playbook in units sold by the end of this month. I have no doubt that it will be competing with the top Honeycomb Tablets in sales, by Aug/Sept.

Just push those OTA updates out pronto.

put out the updates, drop the price and this will sell like hotcakes baby

And dont forget the PRE3!!!!

Come on Jon you can do it! :D

Only 1 tip for the next time (if you ever read this)

Bring it out Worldwide immediently (TP2 for example), Here in the Netherlands like everyone speaks and understands English so a English interface doesnt bother us. (Dutch translation can always come later in my opinion). Keep on the good work
(im still slighly dissappointed that it isnt available here via normal retail).

So i might wait for TP2 (Hopefully improved)

So keep going on with the good work over there!

with kind regards

Frans

Well, seeing how short it took them to fix the first Laggy issue with TP (see the even from February), I would like to believe that this can happen within a couple months :) (Notice: would like to believe lol)

Let me see. It took one year to copy the hardware from one year ago ;).

Since 2009 this webOS thing is in the wild. What did you at Palm do during 2 years getting apps on board that have been on palm before? Like document editing? Still after two years I cannot invite anybody for a date in the calendar app on my phone?

Now you have a TP. I like it, because I like the vision of webOS.

I miss on this tablet the possibility to send presenations to a beamer over wifi. Does your workpad have any music related apps, or even hardware connections? To be proven, just like the document editing.

People over here have a lot of faith to spent their hard earned cash on a plattform which hasn't reall matured over the two years of it's existence under your leadership "Ruby".

Multitasking isn't enough. Get it?!

Never worked in IT before, have you?

Nope. Just a consumer. And I am on this ship since 2009 and I wish I could by a TP with a good feeling. But I have to wait.

I dig the marketing buzz. very good. Close to Apple without the Steve.

Now I am curious how the TP Pre3 will feel after the first buzz is over...

I like the idea of the TP. It seems like a good effort in this field. For this wonderful community I wish it'll live up to the expectations risen.

Well I like it because I like it. That's it.
Go polish your nob... or Apple thingy.

Still at work - if I polished my nob now I would just drift off to sleep . . . :)

Came for the PreCentral trolls, leaving satisfied.

FEED ME!!!

It's tiring, eh? I thought the trolls on Endgadget were bad. But there it seems better than here now! But I guess that when it gets so bad in webOS land, it means that the competition are seriously worried. Or we're seeing a bunch of disgruntled other-devices users trying to justify to themselves that they made a good choice.

By "trolls" you must mean "people who no longer lie to themselves about the state of WebOS."

Not scared competitors just pi$$3d off former Palm fans

I hope the Envy team puts out a better looking device.

I believe, Ruby!

Just waiting for the Pre3 and the TouchPad 4G and then I'll pull the trigger.

HP is going to take this thing to the top. Thank you to Apple for getting it all started.

I can't tell if you are joking or serious

I got the 32GB TouchPad today at a local WALMART, and it rocks! It's gorgeous, sync'd automagically with my phone contacts once I gave it the Yahoo and Google passwords, and then I made phone calls paired with my Pre2, answered Facebook messages from email (which my Pre2 never has) by TYPING on the screen.

Cool device. Perfect? Nope. But my Palm Pre- is still an excellent device, BECAUSE Palm got the fixes out quickly. They will with this, too.

Count me as HAPPY. (sorry to let down the perpetual PreCentral gripers, but this is a sweet device!)

HOME RUN HP!

Funny thing... I went by two WalMart locations and a Sams Club in the Dallas area. All three had their demo units, but did not have them on the floor. Why? Because they had not received any actual product to sell. *sigh*

If you're trying to buy go to Fry's or Best Buy.

Come on man, you have way to realistic expectations. Don't you know that it sucks because it is .2 lbs heavier? How can you be so nieve?

Sarcasm over. I would be thrilled to buy one of these. I would even show it to my friends. I unfortunately have 2 years of severe under employment to make up for. I'm glad somebody can be happy with their purchase. Enjoy.

I am loving mine. I justified my purchase like this: I'm in college and dont have a laptop. I do however have a gaming rig i built in my dorm. I didnt want a laptop but rather something to cover my computing needs in class and around campus. Touchpad has the kindle app and that was HUGE for me because most of my textbooks are on it for this upcoming semester.

My savings i will receive through cheaper books from eBooks will pay for itself over the next 2 years. :)

Not regretting my purchase one bit. Once the case comes friday i will feel more inclined to bring it out of my room. :P

Wow, how did he not say those updates will be available "in the coming months...".

Seriously, it's time to stick a fork in this. "We won't release a product until it is perfect".

Everyone here always gives them a pass, here are some examples:

Why is it taking so long to get the TouchPad/Pre3/etc/ out? P|C's answer, because they don't want to release a product before its ready -- what would you rather have an immature product that doesn't work well, or one that screams? Well, we now know what the screaming is about.

Why is the TouchPad so sluggish, laggy, etc. P|C's answer, these issues will be addressed via OTA updates.

Sorry guys, you can't have it both ways...

If you wait for something to be perfect before you release it. It will never get released!

90% is good, get it out there & get it sold. Update as you go to make it better.

We have all waited along time for this, we should all get behind it & help HP make this work, because if it doesn't WebOS is dead.

thing is i can't drop 500+ dollars on each iteration of a device. so if it's not a very competitive and "competitive looking" product I have to put my purchase on hold and hope that the next version of that product will be a lil' more solid. Thats why it is so important to make it as close to perfect the 1st time b4 all the reviews come out so that there is a ton of Hype before launch and it's a MUST HAVE item... even if you can't afford it at the time. I wish this product was one of those b/c that's what my money was saved for.

I guess you people don't own Apple or Microsoft OS computers. No software developer releases perfect software...ever!

I used to work for Microsoft and we had deadlines and polished things to the last days before going Gold and burning to CD. $500 is a lot of money for most people, but then HP is selling a hardware and software technology in their TouchPads for $500. Last I checked, Microsoft presently sells Windows 7 Ultimate edition for $219, its not perfect, and you still have to buy the computer. Sorli...

Yeah I understand what you're saying but what we should hold HP to is how the Touchpad functions. A legitimate complaint is that the device lags or is unstable. (which seems to be a current concern) A "competitive looking" product is a very subjective thing. HP and Palm thought the touchpad at inception was good looking and thin enough and based on competitors at the time, it was. And for some people Touchpad form still is fine. Apple and Samsung moved the bar since then and has enough influence to convince people that tablets should be thinner and aluminum.
If the tablet is a real market, then people will get a new tablet every couple years like upgrading laptops. Not every year. And people will want different styles and sizes- 7" tabs, 10 " tabs, plastic, aluminum. If HP does ok then it'll probably add 7" tabs and probably a premium Envy line. The Touchpad's form is a done deal now. HP has to scramble to improve the stability and speed of the Touchpads so purchasers will be satisfied.

90% - I played with the touchpad - it's 60% at best.

What oh wise one would you add to make up the 40%?

I would add document editing and optimization for the lag. (I personally never saw any in the device I played with). That amounts to 10% in my opinion. Oh by the way saying more apps doesn't count. It has all the basics that should be their but Doc editing. The rest will come from other persons.

Here's where the 40% would have come from:

10% hardware:

- better industrial design - to match samsung and apple. Once HP saw the iPad 2, they should have redesigned the touchpad to be thinner, lighter, and sleeker. Samsung tweaked the design of their galaxy tab, because they're in the market to win. HP didn't change anything.

- better hardware - no, not a rear camera, but a better screen. A screen that at full brightness is about 65% of the iPad 2's full brightness is garbage. A sd slot would be a great thing to have.

30% software:

- performance - gestures are slow - delays of seconds after touching the screen, gestures not getting detected, task switching is slow, app launching is torture, web browsing is amazingly slow. These are the fundamental tasks of any tablet os - if the fundamentals aren't there, no ones gong to use it.

- reliability - debug the damn thing. Apps. crashing is not a good user experience. :(

Touch to share, cloud computing, etc. are worthless if the fundamentals aren't solid.

There's your 40% - no mention of apps.

If the touchpad was at 90% they'd own the tablet market in a year.

In its current iteration, it's unusable - way too sluggish - more like 60%

The fundamentals on the touchpad - browsing, email, task switching, etc. need to work well. PERFORMANCE should have been their number one priority - not adding in new stuff like touch to share, etc.

Don't worry, the updates to fix the updates will also be ready "In the coming months."

do you own one? i do. its not sluggish or laggy. has hiccups but that is expected.

ota updates don't count - you only have one chance to make a first impression

For many people (not early adopters) their first Touchpad experience will be in a week or month or 6 months from now. So a first impression is a moving target. And you would be surprised that many people don't read tech blog reviews that a published on day (-1). Smaller HP resellers (VARs) don't even sell touchpads until end of July. So no, it's not over not by a long shot.

Touchpad is like #35 in the release list of modern tablets. They don't have six months of mindshare. There will be plywood over HP HQ windows if this takes six months to start moving.

I agree with all Ruby has said, and think that they have done an excellent job so far.

Maybe Leo's enthusiasm is a little too much - 'we won't release a product until it is perfect' - is a totally unrealistic statement. I think the Touchpad is really close to perfect. Anytime you finish building something, there are always things you wish you had done differently or better - be it building a building, a toaster or a Touchpad. There are always things that you know you should have finished, but have not been able to.

Then there is the chicken and egg issue of software - and HP has done a great job of getting developers interested in a new product when they could not touch or feel one, and had no confidence in its success.

OS updates are promised, a 7in is rumoured, and I am sure that Touchpad 2 is well in the works and will address the weight and thickness issue.

As long as they keep pushing as hard as they have in the last year, they will get somewhere.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me!

Wow... using a fringe OS with only 5% market share as an example of "greatness." 10 years ago people said Mac OSX would never be a big deal. 10 years later, it still has nearly 20x less market share than Windows. I wonder how much stupidity Ruby has to show before he gets canned?

He's not leaving until he rides webos into the ground. I think thats why alot of Palm folk abandonned ship months ago

Teething on OSX was terrible. I was trying to pick up Mac at work and progress was so slow and aggravating, I quit and had to get Windows versions of Adobe CS. But, Apple still had their legacy O/S running well, you could dual boot, and Apple's mantra was "protect our customers interest".

WebOS has none of these fall backs. I'll watch and wait from the sidelines. Too much deja vu right now. Products in weeks, wont release nonprofitable, wont release until its ready/perfect...we were worried about the Palm culture being wiped out. But it's alive, and leveraged by HP. Well, the unfortunate parts at least.

As for improvements - they got webOSdoctor out on Day 1 - is that not a first, no lag here.

And just noticed, can't edit my posts on Pre|Central anymore - is this a bug in the new system, using Chrome in Ubuntu.

A

Maybe the servers were just busy - can edit now - but it took over 2 minutes after I clicked 'edit' to get the edit screen.

I'm using Chrome in Ubuntu and the edit option is there.

using chrome in ubuntu and I can't edit my posts

Try refreshing the page after you comment.

I went down to Best Buy today to try the TouchPad out (and maybe buy one), but was easily able to talk myself out of ever purchasing one. Both units at Best Buy (and the one I ended up playing with at Walmart) were slow, nonresponsive, and overall laggy/crappy. They feel huge and hollow. The responsiveness was comparable to the Huawei tablet, which sells for 299.

There is absolutely no reason to buy a TouchPad at 499 or 599. It's really unfortunate that HP released this product. I can't think of a good way for them to come out of this flop.

I did the same and was initially discouraged. Then I rebooted the unit and it worked much better. Not perfect but better. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel...

Oh!!! Just like the phones!! Easy enough, only takes five minutes.

The light at the end of the tunnel? That's the other train, and it's on time.

Brace for impact.

Played with the TouchPad today for about an hour at Best Buy- had it's good points and had it's bad points. I like being able to sent a picture to one of the store printers (like magic). As a Pre minus user I was hoping it was superior to all of the other tablets out there but found it to be in need of a little more polish.

With regards to the plastic back - HATE IT. It was 100 percent covered in finger prints and it felt "sticky." How much would it have cost to have had a brushed aluminium back? Would have added greatly to the visual WOW factor that I desire for all of my purchases and hid all of the finger prints and maybe allowed your fingers to glide smoothly over the surface.

Hopefully by the time I am able to replace my Pre- with a new Pre3 they will have made some OTA improvements and possible released an updated tablet - No Tablet for me until I get a new phone. Period.

Just my point of view - your's may be different.

agree... although aluminum wasn't an option because of the touchstone... but i wish they would have used a similar material like touchstone back for the original pre, a black matted finish w/ a rubberized feel. that wouldn't have gathered nearly as many prints, also would have made it feel and look less cheap. Although i am curious why they didn't put an Oileophobic coating on the glass?

Maybe an enterprising 3rd party can sell one. I really my Pre rubberized plastic back. (yes, plastic!)

Ha! "Its a marathon, not a SPRINT". Get it, get it... Oh, never mind, its no fun poking fun at the sprint loyalists. I feel too bad for them.

the quote is apt since we know what happened to marathon at the end.....lmao

look dude! Obviously ur broke so do us all a favor n get lost! Im plyin with one n i love it! compare to Veer, yeah touch pad needs lot more optimization but it still is better than all the OS's that r out there even with its new born WebOS 3.0! if ur cheap4ss needs 100 bucks to make u happy, come here n ill give it to u if u let smack the **** out u!

Learn how to spell, then you can smack people verbally ;-)

broke people don't deserve webos, they should go to android and suffer ui purgatory

Already there.

But Jon, what's the catch phrase for this latest effort? Project Jumpstart? Swat Teams? Usually, you have some kind of name for this.

@EvilKell ... And the Macs' market share has outpaced Windows PCs for FOUR STRAIGHT YEARS.

Just give HP time. Right now Apple has higher profit margin based on volume. That's why you see aluminum and glass on the iPad and black plastic on the TP. If volume grows for TP, guess what? HP can demand better prices and margins!

I am an Apple person, but keep up here becz I like the webOS interface. It's the most original OS since Apple changed the smart phone market!

I was considering a TP to complement my collection of Apple products (products from Newton to the latest MBA, MBP and iPad). I will wait till more apps are available, but I see myself buying a TP in the next year or two.

webOS is great for tablet use (I prefer a non-keyboard webOS slab for a phone) . Plain and simple! HP has the bank balance and patience it needs to make this the number two tablet in short order. If there wasn't the iPad, I would buy a TP now over anything Giggle (et al) has produced!

The best thing now for TP is that it's on the market before Window 8's touch overlay is ready. Android is no competitor for webOS. So watch what happens soon. You will see webOS climb in market share. I believe people will be more apt to buy and keep a TP, whereas a bunch of Android tablets get returned after the "new" wears off.

Sorry for taking so much space here, but I hate to see a product with true potential get dogged so badly. I hate to see companies copy Apple (or anyone else), but webOS is so full of win!

You're right, webOS is pretty much the best idea and system available. I've tried several of these platforms; iOS, Android, BB, WP7, and now webOS. I don't regret buying a Pre 2, but I don't see HP taking this OS where it needs to go to compete with Apple or MS. They aren't a tech leader, just another poser manufacturer.

Maybe this OS will eventually be a better tablet than the iPad...which I own but hardly use (I'm really only barely convinced tablets are even worth a damn yet). However, as far as phones go, I'll stick with my feature rich and customizable, jailbroken iPhone...or maybe eventually go with a Nokia or HTC WP7. WebOS on phones still has a long way to go and is getting there VERY slowly, which I personally find hard to tolerate.

What are you talking about? If Macs' market share has outpaced Windows PCs for four straight years, then why do Macs still have only 14% market share in the US?

Based on tracking of web clients, Mac OS only has 7.4% market share.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

Yes, but I think that means worldwide market share, which is why I specified US marketshare.

Source: http://royal.pingdom.com/2011/03/16/the-10-most-mac-friendly-countries-o...

In the comments to the Precentral TP review, I predicted that heads would roll at Palm GBU over the reviews on the TP. Sounds like Rubinstein is feeling the heat - as he certainly should. No matter what you or I think about the Touchpad, the reviews and press are very negative overall - and that is important. Even worse is what it means for the average consumer's reaction and experience with the device. I just went to Best Buy to play with the TouchPad. I really thought that I would be impressed.
I was sorely disappointed. The demo unit battery kept charging or not charging, with an accompanying vibration every time the batter would reconnect to charging - I couldn't get it to stop.
I went out of the demo and worked with the device. The calendar device lags when repopulating the next days appointments. So when this device switches from Monday to Tuesday, for example, you have to wait a second or two seconds to see the appointments fill in.
Email seemed to work fine, though not Ipad 2 snappy.
The messaging app froze up for about 10 seconds, and then reacted to my button push from 10 seconds before.
I opened a few games that seems to work fine.
I didn't notice any problems with orientation of the screen. QuickOffice was slow opening up but it did open and worked.
The browser seemed to work great. Despite reviews saying it is slow, it was faster on BB's wifi network than my wife's Ipad 1 is on my wifi network. It was way faster than I expected after reading the reviews. Tabbed browsing would be nice.
About midway playing with the device, it suddenly rebooted. I kid you not. Never seen a tablet do that. Probably had 8 apps open. The reboot did not take as long as I would have expected, though, but what a terrible experience for anyone demoing the unit.
Next to the Touchpad was a dummy Veer unit, and a real Veer unit - except it wasn't working. Never seen that at the Apple stand at Best Buy with devices not working.
HP represents to many customers the gold standard of printers. They are certainly a serious player in "big iron", making heavy duty Itanium servers for the largest corporations in the world that are certainly gold standard. They still make the gold standard business caclulator used in MBA programs around the world.
They shouldn't sully their reputation with a release like this.
I won't be surprised if the Pre 3 is delayed until they can regroup, try to patch/upgrade WebOS 3.0 and get the Touchpad at least stable.
HP had a lot riding reputation-wise on the Touchpad release, and no matter any of our personal views on the Touchpad, they blew it. Jon's email is a recognition of this fact and an attempt to rally the troops after a hugely disappointing release.

That's funny...the only reason Mac OS X is doing well at all is because Apple destroyed the phone and PMP worlds with their innovation. They are trying to share the wealth between their devices/products, and doing a better job than most, but I see Windows 8 being plenty more innovative than Lion. The only similarity that HP and Apple have is that they have both been around forever and both have a lot of influence. Problem is that Apple's influence is more in the consumer world, which is where more of the money in the market is moving to. Companies like to be stingy and cut costs and corners; consumers like to blow their money on status symbols.

The TouchPad is a piece of steaming hot garbage as far as I'm concerned. Devices are only allowed to lack as many features if they have some MAJOR advantages over the competition. The iPhone was lacking a lot when it first came out, but it owned everyone anyway because of user experience overall, and nothing else on the market really compared. This device is not a game changer; it has potential, but the company making it has its wheels stuck in the mud, philosophically speaking.

It just sounds pitiful to me when I hear big companies that are totally detached from their customers (ie RIM, HP/Palm, Motorola, Sony, etc.) come up with excuses or clever references that try to make people either feel sorry for them or look the other way temporarily. These tactics don't save companies, they only buy time before the inevitable happens. And I'm not a big enough fan to sit and cry that the devices suck...I'll just go buy something else when the time comes ;-)

Got my TouchPad 32G today from Best Buy (in Laurel, MD) and had an HP rep inside doing a decent jot of explaining how it works to customers. I only wish she had a Pre 3 to show touch-to-share first hand.

I think the OTA updates will be just fine, some will complain no matter what and others will enjoy thier purchase.

Yeah, some like most of the tech press who inform consumers on their tech purchases...

If anyone buys this thing and complains, too bad for them, they were warned by all of us negative Nancy's. I'd say that those who critique this device are pretty grounded in reality, those who like it still are VERY loyal to webOS, and those who buy it are either blind, ignorant or VERY loyal to HP.

And I say anyone who swears off this product because of a .2 lb diffence and a black plastic back is just plain vain. If you use it and don't like it because of the way the interface works or its lack of apps, that is fine. Maybe that is why your so negative, but this thing is top of the line.

I just sick of people complaining about minor cosmetic things. You better not get married, your wifes looks will degrade, but the internals will always make up for it.

I don't think anyone is going to get this by mistake. Hopefully v2 will be better for me personally because I need apps.

Agree 100%

Ironically, 10 years later Mac OS X still has only 14% market share in the US. That's nowhere near "number one plus". If we are to follow the analogy, webOS will only gain 8-9% market share in the next 10 years.

If the updates will come as soon as they say, couldn't they have just waited an extra week or two before releasing the Touchpad? What other major tablets are releasing in the next two weeks anyway? None that I can think of that would steal the Touchpad's thunder. You can't take those bad reviews back, and I bet it won't be most reviewers that will go back and revise their reviews when the update goes out. By then they will have probably returned their review units, unless HP wants to manage the PR fiasco by letting reviewers hang on to review units a little while longer.

Botched launch again. First Veer, now Touchpad. I'm afraid HP might be 3 for 3 when the Pre 3 launches...

I would love if if the Envy line designed it with an aluminum alloy that's stronger and lighter and with DRAGON TAIL GLASS and my specs below

SPECS:
*HP WebOS 4.0 or 5.0
*Dual Core 2.2 GHz Samsung Processor
*Samsung Super Amoled Plus
*Resolution: 2,200*1,720p (200ppi) and 9.7in Screen
*2 or 3GB of Ram
*6.5 or 7.3mm of Thickness
*8,500 mAh Battery
*8 Megapixel Rear Camera with Dual LED FLASH & 1080p video capture
*3 Megapixel Front Facing Camera
*Touch To Share v2
*Touch Stone v3
*BEATS audio Processing and BEATS Speakers
*Dual Mic and noise cancellation
*Support for both 2.4GHz and the 5GHz wifi bands
*Flash Player 11.0
*Bluetooth 3.0, Accelerometer,Gyroscope, Digital Compass, Ambient Light Sensor and GPS with wifi and 3g/4g
*Micro SD card slot
*1080p to TV Mirroring
*3.5mm Beats Head Phone Jack
*Mini HDMI out
*Micro USB cable
*GPU Acceleration
*All for $499(32GB) $599(64GB) $699(120GB)

This would so kill the ipad2 or even 3 and i would so buy it

What does HP WebOS 4.0 or 5.0 even mean?? And Flash Player 11, Touch to Share v2, and Touch Stone v3??

And you're dreaming if you think you're gonna get those specs for only $499.

Well it's obvious I am dreaming plus if apple was able to sell the 16GB ipod touch 4th gen and 16GB iPhone 4th gen for the price of the 8GB then I think it is possible and then HP would beat Apple at it's own game.

This sounds like how people were making up specs for the C40. Then running with it and creating imaginary scenarios where the world dumps the iPhone and buys this magical C40 device.

You know you're dead in the water when your users have to fantasy-engineer a product people will want to buy.

lol next we need the mockup and cad drawings.

And a precentral contest awarding you whatever the next device is.

you left out print money.

I think that was implied

Imagineering or armchair engineering is easy, real design and production is not.

Why are you assuming Dragontail is better than Gorilla glass? It has not been used on anything yet and there are no comparisons, but from what I have read they are essentially equivalent. The Gorilla Glass on my Pre2 is amazing, 3 months and still completely scratch free.