Jon Rubinstein: Palm independent within HP, can still be competitive | webOS Nation
 
 

Jon Rubinstein: Palm independent within HP, can still be competitive 105

by Derek Kessler Tue, 07 Dec 2010 8:19 pm EST

Jon Rubinstein at Dive Into Mobile 2010

HP Senior Vice President and Palm Global Business Unit General Manager Jon Rubinstein, formerly CEO of the independent Palm, Inc. (let’s see all that on a business card) sat down with the Wall Street Journal’s Kara Swisher for a chat about Palm at the Dive Into Mobile conference in San Francisco. The discussion was wide-ranging, touching on where Palm went wrong, where Palm is going, and how things work with the new HP overlords.

The discussion started with Swisher touching back on something that struck us as surprising from the last time she and Rubinstein were on stage: the then Palm CEO had not even touched an iPhone. Apparently that has since changed, with Rubinstein noting that many Palm employees use iPhones, and the iPhone is reviewed by their competitive analysis groups. But yes, he has now touched and used an iPhone. It’s not something that ever became his primary device, as he doesn’t “want to be tainted by another experience. I want to come at this with a fresh perspective and I think what we’re seeing now in this industry is that everyone is copying the iPhone.”

But would having used an iPhone saved Palm? We doubt it. In fact, Rubinstein admitted that though webOS and the Pre were great products, “market moved too fast and when we looked forward we saw a very clear way to where we could get the company to profitability, but we didn’t see a way to get it to scale.”

Scale is where HP came in, providing the moneybags and connections needed to scale Palm’s product pipeline and development. Even though there were multiple companies that expressed interest in acquiring Palm, Rubinstein said that HP was the suitor that made the most sense: “They didn’t have a great mobile strategy, but they had the means to get webOS to scale.”

Any acquisition has its troubles, and though the Mark Hurd scandal roiled the technology media for days on end, it was of little consequence to Palm, having just joined with HP fairly recently. The integration of Palm into HP has resulted in significant autonomy, with Palm taking advantage of HP’s resources like finance and HR and divisions like HP Labs, while Palm’s engineering team “is essentially separate.” Apparently there wasn’t too much delay with the restarting of Palm product development post-acquisition, with Rubinstein saying that “as soon as we aligned our roadmaps, we were off and running.”

The intent is to utilize HP’s scale to bring webOS to a wider audience. Rubinstein noted that only some 20%-30% of mobile phone users worldwide have a smartphone, leaving room for tremendous growth (and allaying any fears of Palm leaving the smartphone space). He thinks that HP and Palm “still have the chance to become a major player if we do the right things.” Rubinstein also still sees the mobile game as a 3-5 player arena. Currently, it’s RIM, Apple, and Android as the top three, with a smattering below from Microsoft, Palm, Nokia, and a few others.

Part of those “right things” seems to be integration, with Rubinstein noting that today users are carrying multiple devices (smartphone, tablet, and computer) instead of the predicted convergence of everything into one. What’s important is “how do these devices interact so there’s a seamless user experience across devices. The ability to have a unified experience on all your devices is very important.” Take from that what you will, but we can envision a pretty cool future where the interaction between our webOS phone, webOS tablet, webOS printer, and webOS toaster is all sorts of awesome.

Prompted during the Q&A by Engadget’s Joshua Topolsky, Rubinstein touched on the fact that there isn’t anything new (apart from webOS 2.0) coming from Palm right now, saying that “Right now we are really quiet cause we don't have anything we can talk about.” But he did mention that some of Palm’s upcoming cloud integration features “are going to be really profound,” and that there will be plenty of real talk about real new products next year.

So, no, there weren’t any surprise announcements, and we weren’t expecting any. But it’s good to see Rubinstein out and about, and to hear that things are going well at Palm (though to be honest, we heard that a lot when things really weren’t). What will the future bring? Stay tuned to find out.

Source: All Things D

 

105 Comments

Id like to think that Ruby is making all these appearances not as much as for the HP shareholders but for us to to know Palm is still there

CES is where HP/Palm will announce webos 2.0 - there will be no new hardware haha that blows me away lol

Did you read this somewhere? Because I didn't see that in the article....

Frankly I'd be more excited to hear that HP had taken a firmer hand with Palm.

Definitely. Sorry Palm Vets. I'm in the position of having learned 100% of the things I know about how Palm handles themselves from how they've handled themselves the last 18 months.

So yeah. Frankly I'd be more excited to hear that HP had taken a firmer hand with Palm.

What is it about HP that makes them want to send their executives out to to do media events when they have absolutely nothing to say nor show? Everyone else is flashing at least some kind of UI or hardware at these events. And he has the balls to say that we will be talking about plenty of new products next year? Does he mean within the next 12 months?

That's what executives are for.

HP has said over and over that CES is when new hardware will be announced. Quit yer crying.

He didn't say that.

No he didn't. There's never been official word that new hardware will be announced at CES.

well if they don't they might as well close their doors. the market will have left them in the dust.

He means- "In the coming months". He didn't even definitively claim that Palm is producing any new Smartphones. Telling us that there is room for growth doesn't tell us what they are doing about it. They'll produce tablets and web connected printers. There is no proof they will do anything more than that.

im going to say that since the name palm has been kept, they are still going to be making phones. their name is palm... it wouldnt make sense for a company with that name to only make tablets and printers (they arnt ever going to make printers actually). they are still going to b making phones. Rahul Sood confirmed it, Ruby confirmed it, and hp technically confirmed it when they allowed palm to release the pre 2. why the hell would they release a stop-gap phone for devs if they weren't going to continue to use webos on phones? makes nooo sense. we will see phones. mayb not at ces. why? cuz they wont b rdy till, im guessing, april (which is fine by me cuz thats when i get my upgrade). they dont want a large nule time between announcement and release. ces is too early to accomplish that. i bet palm will show off 2.0 on the pre 2 and the webos tablet. still really cool, mainstream-wise people dont even know about webos 2.0 and the pre 2. it will def get some dev attention, and thats exatly what they need to do at this point. so lets all sit back and relax, we will see palm drop like 3 new phones come spring and we are all going to crap our pants. iv never been so excited to soil myself :)

Frankly I'd be more excited to hear that HP had taken a firmer hand with Palm.

i guess he just confirm that palm/hp has nothing too show for other than webos 2.0

WebOS is a zombie. It's dead but still limping along very slowly saying "waiiiiiiiit.... Waaaait."

Just wondering if you make the same comment to each article?

Yeah, whatever. I'm a webOS supporter, but it's time to "Put Up or Shut Up" or maybe shut down.

+1

"Rubinstein touched on the fact that there isn

not sure why people seem so concerned. At this point I think its very clear what the majority of the WebOS community will be doing come January. If H/Palm doesn't have anything impressive to show at CES, you can pretty much say goodbye to whatever was left. Most of us will be android users come February.

And I'm sure HP and Palm know that. I read it more so that there is nothing right now that they *can* talk about, not that there isn't anything coming. They don't want to dilute the splash by leaking information prematurely.

Rubi does come across as having nothing to say and if you have nothing to say, then why stick your head out there to get picked off one shot at a time.

What I don't get is why we always see Kara and Rubi together at all these events. Doesn't the tech industry have anyone else female or otherwise to play host? Kara alright, but her questions are getting tiring and I'd rather have a round table or some other panel discussion. Heck, how bout throw some HP CEO's into the mix and have them answer questions...

Said truth of the matter, I love webOS and if HPalm doesn't step up come CES 2011...I'll have no choice but to entertain Android or iPhone OS. Not looking forward to it and praying for HP at CES 2011! Sorli...

i like webos and all and still use a pre, but i dont understand everyone's problem with android. its quite nice actually. I am starting to wonder if anyone here who talks down on it has actually used it. I drive a whole lot and the touchstone is a wonder to use in the car. if i wasnt for that awesome device i would probabaly consider going to android or wp7. but, im stickin with palm

I agree with your point on the Touchstone (especially in the car). Also, I have used Android pretty extensively for work and it's definitely nice, but Palm has a much better, smoother UI concept. Things make more sense and kind of flow better than on Android (though it is improving, I will say).

Here's what I see in Palm's future...the same thing as happened in Palm past...a big flop. I'm holding out till CES as otherwise me holding out since June is a waste of time. If Palm doesn't impress me at CES (and I'm not holding my breath anymore), I'm sure some other phone manufacturer will be more than happy to shove them aside (and kick them a few times for good measure) to get my phone and app dollars. Will I be back ever if I left Doubt it...but look for me "in the coming months" which when that comes I'll tell you 1Q then 2Q then 3Q then 4Q and then I'll bring it all back to coming months.

Oh and sorry devs. I'm not really buying many apps right now as 1. I'm uncertain as to if I will be using a webOS device next year. And 2. There's really not much interesting in the catalog other than games which get played for a week tops and then just clutter up my launch screen.

Edit: But I'd guess most devs are already aware of this trend.

I'm giving HPalm till april, that's when I get my next upgrade, if nothing's out by then I'm going with something else.

EXACTLY my position

Google let us sneak a peak at their Android 3.0 tablet. RIM is showing off their Playbook to anyone that will look. Palm is saying great things are coming at some unspecified date and nearly no detail on what those things are. Who wouldn't be excited for Palm products?

Seriously, I am not sure how the marketing of Palm could be run any worse than it is now. I don't know, maybe they could get Osama bin Laden to be the spokesperson of their next phone or have commercials with their phones exploding and killing people.

lol awesome!!

I think Rubi was a bad CEO then and he is a bad VP/GM now. He doesn't understand the concept of time; therefore he is always too late to bring a product out. He needs to be replace with some one who understand the idea of bringing a good product to the fast moving market.

FIRE JON

yeah isn't he more of a tech guy than a business guy anyway?

No doubt fire Jon... what good is he?

If there's nothing at CES, goodbye WebOS and hello iOS on Verizon iPhone! (:

I will complain because many of us original Pre users are on their last legs!

I am with you on this , if nothing good comes out in CES then I am done SON. I won't go to Verizon though, will find something on Sprint. I am not buying anymore apps because I might not have a Webos device next year.

I'm starting to think that ol Rube here was the main reason Palm went under. The guy just doesn't seem to understand how the market works. I hope his contract with HP is short.

No surprise from Rubi, and definitely no surprise from the comments.

All of you holding out till CES, why don't you get yourself a Christmas present and buy that phone you have been envious of already?

I would, but say palm isn't the only one announcing new hardware.

Palm comes out announcing a new amazing phone... that won't be released till July.

Google comes out with a brand new, state-of-the-art Android phone.... released in February on Sprint.

So I can buy now, but i'll wait. Not for a Palm necessarily, but for ANY newer device on the horizon.

Isn't that state-of-the-art phone the Nexus S?

that phone is F***in niiiiice

Cause Windows Phone 7 ain't on CDMA....yet.

That's exactly what I did. Got me an Epic 4g and loving it. And battery life is exceeding my expectations by far (just saying).

The way I saw it was, I might as well upgrade now instead of waiting for palm to release something 6-9 months from now. I had already dismissed the notion of new hardware simply being ANNOUCNED (not even released) at CES. If I waited till then to upgrade, who knows what other phones will be out a year from now? Palm's new stuff might STILL be behind the curve, even then.

When a corporate exec says, "My (recently bought out) company pretty much runs independently within (the company that just bought us out,)" that can be an indication that he is being given a long piece of rope with which to hang himself.

I think that Ruby's comments about profitability and scale are all right on. I'm sure he realizes, though, that this is a do-or-die situation for him. He has to get it right, and he has to make a winner. If not, then Palm will no longer be acting independently within HP, and Ruby will be gone.

I can't say i know all the details and I'm too lazy to look them up but i remember p/c reporting that hp dropped some 200 of their employees in the palm offices. Correct me if I'm wrong, but how is that opperating independently? Wouldn't that imply "without influence." Perhaps his definition of independant in this case means without influence from the big wigs and those 200 hp people are there to do his bidding? After his company collapsed and got bought out, i find it hard to believe the big guys at hp would just let him do his bidding with a workforce that much larger without some kind of control from a higher tier than what he sits on... just my 2 cents

It's called being a salesman. Jon had to sell his idea of Palm and what he could do with Palm for HP if given the resources to do so. HP is giving him the resources and some time to show his abilities. He has to be successful in a way that benefits HP if he wants to stay around.

...and another fluff interview. I feel for Palm users/developers...i really do.

His interviews are becoming a joke. He says the same damn thing: "Oh there's plenty of room for 3-5 players...blah blah blah...we're quiet because, well, we having nothing"

I guess I'm not expecting much from hpalm at ces 2011, now I just have to hope that sprint comes out with some exciting phones. Man, I wish that the iphone or the nexus s were sprint bound, then again, I also wish that palm had an up to par phone coming out for sprint too. I'm not in the market for a palmpad ,I just want a new palm phone!

His last interview with the CPU company CEO was pretty underwhelming, too. RIM is showing off a tablet they don't plan to sell until sometime next year. HP showed off their Win7 tablet a year before it sold. Either John just doesn't get it (keep interest and brand recognition up) or he really hasn't produced anything in 6 months, which is pretty underwhelming for however much he must be paid...

And now WebOS has lost Epocrates, so that pretty much loses physicians in the user base.

Nice job of keeping key developers, Rube....not!

lol did any of you catch Jim's (rim ceo) interview? He didn't make any sense. Check out engadget and read up on it. Every question he answered didn't make any sense. He has no clue where blackberry,its os, the playbook and its os are going.

I got what he said, he just really didn't know how to express it. Basically he meant that instead of doing what apple, google, palm, and microsoft are doing (making an os optimized for current handheld technology then scaling up for a tablet and adding features as handheld tech gets better) they plan on making an optimized full featured tablet os and scaling down for handhelds once the technology is available and allows it. Time will tell if it's the right strategy, but that playbook does look pretty sweet.

All you "if CES doesn't xxxx" people just leave now. You're obviously not loyal to the platform. Why wait? Why "torture" yourself? I'll say there a 2000 of you here, so just go and let the remaining 2,000,000 of us be in peace.

If you think the food is terrible at a restaurant, would you continue to eat there? Would you go in sit down, then rant about how small the portions are? We like this restaurant, so please move on to another restaurant.

I'd argue it's because most don't actually want to leave and would rather Palm step up.

I'd argue it's because they just love being negative on the internet. Scientific research came out recently that online communities thrive on negative emotions, so P|C draws them like a bright light draws moths.

honest critiques of Palm and their past missteps isn't negative. You and Cobrakon's personal continual attacks on anyone that critiques Palm = negative.

Just thought I'd clear that up for you.

+1

These stopped being honest critiques a long time ago. Now they're just rants that people have been conditioned into repeating whenever any little news bit comes out about webOS.

Kind of like the palm fans that keep repeating "android is clunky, apple is for sheep". Same coin, flip side.

+1 @susanoo26

@rsanchez1. Well said. These days I just keep quiet and scan down the the various remarks. The dark side of the force is very strong here my young padi wans.

You can also look at as ppl don't want to move on.Because webos is addictive and ppl complain because they want HPalm to hear or read what we have to say and listen. I for one will keep complaining until after CES.Then I'm moving on and once I Do move on I won't complain anymore.

Amazing! Just amazing!!!

...He says that Palm suffered (and ultimately died) because the market moved too fast. Then, in the very same interview, tells the HP/Palm faithful to keep waiting.

Guess he didn't really learn anything. :-(

i still don't get or understand what people expect
it's a simple chat one on one.. it's not a release convention or anything

JR specifically stated in the video, as asked by kara "so when is this phone coming out"

JR: "we have a variety of new products coming out next year..we have phones, we have tablets, a variety of products"

what more do you people want? that was your hint right there

The correct response is:

"We'll have a big announcement at CES"

THAT is how you hype up the masses. It's okay to tease, but you have to tease with something TANGIBLE. "Next year" is entirely too vague, esp when Palm's market share is just a CH above zero.

Even specifying a quarter would do a world of good. SOMETHING.

3.9% of the market and about 2,000,000 users. Just a tad bit above "0". :rolleyes:

"According to the latest numbers from Nielsen, Palm

John. He keeps talking but takes no action. "Actions speak louder than words"

what tech product ceo goes on stage in a major conference with nothing but vague references to wonderful days ahead. This is your time to build excitement Jon, not underwelm. It's like Palm married a wealthy dude...great to have the hp resources, but what happened to the girl? She's living easy, kicking back by the pool, and ditching her friends.

what a great software platform.. I really wish RIM, HTC or Motorola would take over from here. Who cares if your printer AND your phone use the same OS?

i sure as hell dont give a rats azz... the only time I'm printing things is at work. I dont care if i have to go to a desktop to print something out. i did it for yeears in high school and college. it dont bother me!!

"...he doesn

He clearly said he used one but didnt have one as a personal device. Also that people in their company have iphones and that he's kept up with reviews and launches. To me that sounds like he's been benchmarking against the iphone. Look at the pre-,pre+ and pre 2. All three were meant to be released how the original iphone,3g and 3gs were. Slight hardware evolutions.

Read the whole paragraph the quote comes from. Last year at this time, when the Pre was already 6 months old, he "had never held an iPhone".

That's just stupid. The 3G had already been out for wuite a while and was the clear leader in the class. If Rubenstein has spent some quality time holding and using the iPhone he might have realized that the small difference in the screen size has a vast difference in the user experience.

At this point he and the rest of the Palm team should have logged many hours of use on the iP, Droid and EVO. If they haven't then they are fools who deserve to see their product go down in flames.

Well now it makes sense. Jon never used an iPhone before producing the PRE? No wonder it failed. If you don't know what the competition is doing, how can you possibly beat them with a better product. Nice OS. Lackluster hardware. Go figure. It's any wonder Palm failed then and with HP over them, they are failing now. What a joke.

I'm not interested in a new HPalm phone or tablet for that matter. I bought the Pre because the Treo was a excellent personal information manager. Synergy would be great if it was executed properly... how do you not have a native agenda view on your calendar? If you need access to information why wouldn't you use the king of information's operating system? What a waste of a great operating system.

HP is showing off flexible displays that may not be out for another decade and we are to believe they have their next superdevice coming soon? Where are all these internally developed apps we were promised? If they couldn't get their manufacturing up to speed why not farm a generation or two to HTC? Hurd was right! What a train wreck!

HP is a big company that looks at the bottom line its easy to over look 1.3%. They ARE NOT worried about the 1.3% they do have but the 70% they dont. I know its hard to hear and more hard to write but it true!

Blah! Blah! Blah!...Palm is this..and Palm that is dead.

This is becoming very annoying but also reminds me that where I should spend most of time and money. I just can't believe how people have become some absorb with their phones as if their whole life depended on it. No wonder America is in recession...consumerism has become the new God.

I don't know about the rest of your here but I think HP/Palm has enough competition to know what they need to do to survive. Another know it all from Precentral is not going to help.

As far as I'm concerned, I won't get to wrap up about whether Palm make some announcement at CES. Quite frankly, I'd rather spend my cash and my time in something more productive other than who is winning in the Smartphone market.

Well, I hardly ever comment, but I'm getting that feeling- you know, the one where you're pretty sure something bad is going to happen? You know, because "all the signs are there"?

My feeling comes in the form of excerpts from a future Wikipedia entry:

HP webOS (Palm webOS redirects here): A smartphone operating system created by Palm, Inc......
...was bought by Hewlett Packard (HP) in 2010. HP attempted to revitalize the ailing brand, eventually changing the name to HP webOS and dropping the Palm brand from almost everything related to the division. After releasing an updated Palm Pre 2 (in Europe only- never made it to a US carrier) as well as a tablet running webOS and an updated Palm Pixi, HP decided to close the Palm division and refocus on it's core HP products.......
.....although opinions vary, the demise of Palm is largely attributed to poor sales- brought on by sub-par hardware, delayed release schedules, carrier lock in for new devices (thereby stranding the original Sprint adopters) as well as lack of interest from developers. Poor marketing strategy was also to blame- involving vague promises of new hardware and software (they were often quoted as saying "in the coming months" for months at a time), strange slogans and commercials, incorrectly targeting specific demographics (they once targeted "moms") and public interviews with Palm execs that portrayed them as "feeling confident about the future", but never having any worthwhile information to convey......
.......At the time, the pace of innovation was still accelerating- with the competition turning out software updates almost every other month and hardware on an annual basis, if not sooner. Palm seemed to lack the ability to stay competitive with both Google's "Android" and Apple's "iOS"- even though many believed webOS to be "more stylish, polished, and easier to operate". One of it's strengths was it's ability to multitask using a "cards" metaphor- with which the user could switch between apps by swiping cards left or right, stack like-minded cards, rearrange the order and even swipe the card off the top of the screen, thereby "saving automatically" and closing the program. The software's "Universal Search" (later enhanced and retitled "Just Type") along with "Synergy" (the ability to seamlessly merge contacts, email, calendars, etc. from multiple systems) were also among the features that set it apart from the competition........though a few devices are still in use, the software is no longer updated, supported, or developed for and is now considered a "legacy" smartphone OS. References.......

2.000.000 users wasn't enough to keep Palm independent, and 2.000.000 users wasn't reason for Pam buyout. HP doesn't care if we all leave, so anyone is free to grab new device. If you think that Palm owe something to us is irrational. So, go grab an Iphone or Android, learn platform and after few months of use find all bad sides of their OS's. Android's bad implementation of exchange sync, and general lagging after customization, poorly written software that's filling memory like cancer, or Iphone's troubles with proximity sensor and really bad multitasking. When you jailbreak Iphone and install system tweaks or whinterboard themes you will get slower device than original Pre, so get used with safe mode on your screen. So c'mon, switch and bitch on some other forum!

Every day Palm is looking more and more like the late, great Amiga computer. It's like they are following the same script.

The way people seem to be today at least the ones that post here, Palm will come out with great phones or tablets or whatever. But unless it shoots out laser beams or taps you on your head to wake you each morning they will not be satisfied. As soon as iOS or the green robot comes out with a more super gadget they will be complaining. People love to complain that's what we do.

I want a new phone as much as the next person I got my Pre
from day one. Had to exchange it only once thank God. I've played with the Android OS and imo webOS is a keeper. iPhone is tempting but there is something about being able to talk on a phone, use Sprint navigation, look up a number,have my weather icon at my fingertips, and still be able to
add another task if I have to that no one does quite like or does period like webOS. This is a very innovative platform and HP has seen this.

So here is hoping that new hardware is announced at CES, however I'm in for the long haul. Yeah if my Pre gives out I might jump ship and head over to big red to get a Pre 2(sorry Sprint) or even a green goblin phone ...er green robot phone to tie me over but unless webOS goes the way of the dinosaurs I'm sticking with 'the little OS that could'. Yep I'm a Palm 'fanboy' and proud of it.

Place negative comments from haters here:__________________ .

If you put a bunch of people into a room and they all have expectations, the ones who are disappointed will always be the loudest and most profoundly heard. That's just how the science of sociology explains the behavior of groups and the individuals in them.

In fact, those who have some disappointment but keep it al in perspective usually arent the ones to speak up. I, myself, wasnt going to respond here, in fact...

Therefore, as in the forums, it does NOT surprise me that because Jon didn't announce or hint at anything definitive last night, that the posts above were written, mostly complaining and threatening to walk away from WebOS, etc..

But:

While HP DOES need to pay attention to the current webOS customer base (because it needs the developers to icrease their interest in the OS) you need to remember one other thing: there are 3.5 billion cell phone users in the world, and if only 20% of them are using smartphones, that leaves 2.8 billion left to upgrade - not to mention that 20% who will be neding to upgrade to another smartphone soon, looking for the latest ang greatest. Yes - we are talking BILLIONS.

In that regard, HP is most likely focusing its plan for success in this arena with all of those new customers as targets, and can certainly afford to lose a few million, even if they are the original few million, if those users become impatient enough and cant wait any more.

So, in a nutshell:

Stay and enjoy yuour Pre, Pre+, Pre2, Pixi, Pixi Plus, etc.. or leave and get the Nexus S, Samsung Galaxy, Evo, Droid, or iPhone... what you/we all do should reflect our own needs and goals - believe me, HP's plans won't change, and when they are ready, new devices will be introduced.

At that point, if you left and are feeling WebOS homesick, you'll be back; or if you have an aging pRe/Pre+, you'll upgrade, or, if you dont like the devices, you'll move on.. but most importantly, its all those other users - the 80% that don't have smartphones, plus the 20% that do and who are looking for the next latest and greatest that HP will be targetting, mainly.

As they say:

"It is what it is"; HP isn't playing this game to fail, ut they have their plan, which may change along the way, but, at some point, it will come to fruition and they will be a serious competitor in the smartphone sector - and THAT a fact I suggest you not doubt - they have been around for a long time, and they know how to succeed in the long run.

:)

+ ONE THOUSAND

good post. commonsense still lives.

Seriously! I mean, I'll admit that I'm a bit disappointed in Palm's offerings and the fact that they may not have anything competitive out there to buy for several months. But guess what? I GOT OVER IT. I'm tired of reading, "If HP/Palm doesn't do ____________, then I'm jumping ship to _____________." JUST DO IT. Nike style... (lol) That's what I did. Doesn't mean I won't be back. Get what you want. Or you can wait and see what they have up their sleeve. But for heaven sakes, STOP COMPLAINING.

your conclusions don't work, lots of people don't want and don't need a smartphone at all.

"your conclusions don't work, lots of people don't want and don't need a smartphone at all."

That's what they said about the automobile versus the horse and buggy, TV's versus radios, and most recently, a computer versus a typewriter.

;)

Our technology is in a constant state of change - just because YOU don't see the need, doesn't mean it won't happen.

Not only will everyone eventually have a smartphone, but, the way the world functions will ventually revolve around the functionality and economics of their use.

:)

phone vs smartphone is just about features which many people dont want/need to use, while your examples are comparing new inventions. Sorry to destroy your pipe dreams.

of course, if there are only "smart"phones left, people will get one, even thou they dont need it or use it different than the previous one. But to attract those people, palm (right now) has worst chances of all competitors, even thou they theoretically offer the "smart"phone with the best size to carry it around

I was a long time Palm PDA user. I started with the Palm III and ended up with the TX. I was always a loyal Palm user but up till now had no need or desire for a smartphone. Well in January I must get a new phone and I wanted to go the WebOS route. The problem is my choices are so limited. I can go with a Pixi that does not get very good reviews or a Pre if I can even find it anymore. Both are already near or at EOL. There is no new WebOS device to choose from. Given that, even if I were to get one of these two phones, they already pale in comparison to several other devices. I think that is what those on these boards fail to understand. Just because you my have and like the WebOS device doesn't mean it will be around long if new users don't continue to come on board. It reminds me a lot of the old Palm/Pocket PC days. We the Palm users kept denying that our less then stellar hardware would keep users from wanting the better PalmOS experience then Pocket PC but in the end Palm was losing out to the Pocket PC. For each customer there is a narrow time frame to grab that customer. I will most likely be forced to go to another platform for at least two years. That is one less WebOS customer. How many customers does HP/Palm lose out to on a daily basis the way things currently are. As someone who is more on the outside looking in, it appears to me that HP is killing off the smartphones and concentrating on tablets and other uses for WebOS. One only needs to look at the end of the Handspring PDA line to see similarities. Only this time Donna Dubinsky isn't around to announce it prematurely.

By the time I upgrade,Hp webOS will be turned into Hp webODead!

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#1 "Rubinstein noting that many Palm employees use iPhones" - Really??? So your product is not even good enough for your own employees? Have you made your product available to them for free? If your EMPLOYEES prefer the competition, don't you think the BUYING PUBLIC will, too?

#2 "Rubinstein touched on the fact that there isn

That sounds reasonable to me. Done. Over. Finit.

Just my 2c: I think all Rubi need to do is change the wording a little. Instead of saying that they have nothing to talk about he should learn from Apple and say "We do not talk about unannounced products"

That is all, problem solved. Also creates free advertizement momentum.

But he will change "in the coming months" but by then he'll be sitting at the un-emplyment line.

I guess it is part of the problem. See he was retired when he joined Palm, so if he gets fired he just goes back to retirement. No harm done for him... webOS on other hand....

Competitive is not releasing the same phone three times.

+1

+1 I think he became CEO of Palm just to crush it. He's doing good at that right now.....Selling the same phones but only bump specs.

I have no doubt HPalm will spill out webos 2.0 again at CES but the sweet part will be that how it will compliment the new devices to come out next year.

Oh yes they will talk and drone on about webOS 2.0. But when it comes to someone asking a release date they'll say the same "coming months" line and then keep their mouths shut.

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It pains me to say it after years as a Palm person (and more than a little involvement with the Pre), but it's safe to say things are pretty much done.

With Android shipping 300,000 new activation units a day (NOT including upgrades of existing users), and HP saying "wait, wait, wait, we'll catch up someday, we promise! No specifics, though," you'd have to be nuts to be a developer planning a significant investment in webOS.

Without developers, there are no compelling apps. Without compelling apps, there's no successful device series.

The Android ecosystem is doing the same thing in smartphones that the open Windows ecosystem did in PCs... faster, better, cheaper hardware and huge innovation in a short period of time by dozens of manufacturers.

Palm couldn't keep up by itself. HP and Palm won't be able to keep up either. The fact that a bevy of new devices available on all the major US and EU carriers haven't already been released is proof of this. HP/Palm simply are out of time, have no new stuff ready, and whatever they ship in the next six months will be both ignored by most users and likely behind the curve versus the Android devices of the same vintage.

Apple iPhone will be the Mac to Android's Windows, while the Pre is more Atari ST or Amiga... no room for it in the Brave New World.

Palm was a pioneer and had a great run, but it's time to move on, folks.

i dont need webos to have that great of apps... i have an itouch :) i have the best of both worlds. great apps and a sweet phone