Maybe it's time to stop hating on HP? | webOS Nation
 
 

Maybe it's time to stop hating on HP? 75

by Derek Kessler Tue, 18 Sep 2012 9:06 pm EDT

Maybe it's time to stop hating on HP?

Hate is an incredibly intense emotion. Hate implies that you want to see the object of that emotion ended at all costs, be it the weather, your nemesis, or that untrained dog next door that barks through the night at nothing and everything. Hate is consuming, hate is destroying, hate is by and large wholly counterproductive. Hate is simply not good.

It has been thirteen months since HP cancelled webOS hardware development in what we can best describe as a fit of shortsightedness. It was a fit that was utterly destructive to the future of webOS and the community as a whole, and those who work on and with the operating system for a living and those of us who for various reasons care about webOS have spent the last year slowly recovering from that most improvident decision. Heck, HP's been struggling to recover from the decision, having been forced to write down billions of dollars in losses and losing a massive amount of shareholder value in the process.

Yet still, well over a year after the ax fell and the planned future of webOS was shunted to the side, I still find on a regular basis hate towards HP. The words still ring out in the comments and the forums, "I hate HP!" and "Damn you HP!" and so forth. HP as a company has changed in many ways since August 2011, not the least of which includes a new CEO in Meg Whitman to replace the failed and disastrous tenure of her predecessor, Leo Apotheker.

HP is a company. But as a company, HP is comprised of people. Without those hundreds of thousands of employees, HP is nothing. I feel no ill will towards those employees. I don't hate them. Yet, I feel that there are some in this community that if they were to run into somebody wearing an HP shirt on the street they'd feel overwhelmingly compelled to tell said employee how much they hate HP for what was done to webOS. Was what happened with webOS a year ago one of the most colossally rash, irresponsible, and gallingly asinine business decisions we've seen in the past several years in tech? Without a doubt. But is it worthy of hate a year later? I don't think so. I didn't think so then.

The problem is that former CEO Leo Apotheker, the and current Chairman Ray Lane, and the HP Board of Directors thought they were making a rational decision. Faced with a future where HP's computing and printing divisions are on the decline and attempting to provide and answer to Apple's iPad and Google's Android was going to cost billions of dollars and years of investment, they pulled the plug on webOS and decided to jettison the PC and printers businesses before it was too late. IBM's had enormous success as an enterprise services company, and HP's done relatively well in that arena too (except for some poor acquisitions in the process). Enterprise services was the future of the new HP. The HP leadership made a decision not out of malice, but out of dollars.

Of course, the market, businesses, and consumers voted with their wallets thereafter and Apotheker was soon no longer a part of HP. With former eBay CEO and HP board member Meg Whitman (who joined the board after the appointment of Apotheker) as Apotheker's replacement, things began to turn around. HP retracted plans to split the company apart and eventually committed to releasing webOS to open source. HP's trying to make good on webOS. They could have just taken the $3.3 billion write down and called it a day. But they didn't, they saw that there's still potential in webOS, but HP's just not in a position of financial strength or consumer sentiment to do much more than quietly open source it right now.

That one decision made thirteen months ago forever and unalterably changed the path of webOS. There's the new path of Open webOS, and while we may not agree with every decision that's been made along that path, they've still been made for generally pragmatic reasons.

I don't hate HP. But I'm certainly not an apologist for HP. As I said last week, I'm not a cheerleader for HP or webOS and won't shy away from telling them when I think they're wrong. But hating them for making a business decision is too intense for me. I'm may come across as cool and disconnected sometimes, but I'm no Vulcan. I, like many of you, was seriously perturbed by the news of thirteen months ago. I spent nearly an hour that evening looking for something in my house I could break without regretting it later (I ended up settling on a metal-handled broom, which I thoroughly destroyed - it was most satisfying).

I'll still give HP a hard time over the cancellation of webOS hardware, when appropriate. And I'll still  continue to give HP my unsolicited advice, even if it's not what they want to hear. And despite all of the time and effort and thought that I put into this site and the webOS community at large, I'll still continue to practice what I preach: it's just an operating system, just a tablet, and just a phone.

Hate is bad. Hate has never accomplished anything remotely good. If you're going to hate something, hate something that's worth hating, like the fact that people die from senseless acts of violence perpetrated by individuals and governments around the world on a daily basis. Hate that we still try to divide our society by race and religion and wealth and just where you happen to have been born. Hate in the most ironic sense that there is hate in the world.

But don't hate HP. They make computers, for crying out loud! If you're unhappy with HP's management decisions, vote with your wallet and buy your technology elsewhere. I for one don't have any plans to buy any more HP products, and I'll admit that my experience with HP's management decisions has partly driven those plans. I'm not saying you should take HP up to the honeymoon suite and make sweet sweet love, but the unproductive hate has to stop. It, like so many other things that have happened in the land of webOS, just doesn't make sense.

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75 Comments

As always, Derek, your thoughts and words reflect mine. Thanks for all that you do for the webOS community. Without you, I may have jumped ship a long time ago...

HP is alright, but if you're in the coffee shop and trying to spit some game, pulling out an HP wiff Beats Audio or a Palm phone ain't getting get the honeys interested. You gotta have those MAC products.

The type of honeys that would only be interested in guys with iPhones are not the ones I'd be interested in getting with.

Back in the spring, I was eating dinner in the Las Vegas airport while waiting for my late flight, and the waitress saw my Touchpad and Pre and was asking me about it, since she had a Pre3. I'm sure that was a better conversation than talking to a girl about her Hello Kitty iPhone case.

You had both your nerd phone and your Touchpad out? I'm sure that waitress was REALLY interested in your tech toys and not her tip.

-

Yeah, honeys that just want the kinda guys that like shoe shopping and interior decorating. The iphone has become the Ford Taurus. It's a fine way to get around, does the job well enough. Not cutting edge, but a soft cushy seat and no options that might confuse the casual user. Very common, so common now, it has the impact of a JCPenney store brand polo shirt. Fruk, my 14 year old kid has one, how special can they be?

Anyway, no hate for HP from me. Hate requires passion. There is no passion with HP. I have made the determination that they lack a "pro-customer" culture. The people that promised and pledged WebOS goodies, are gone, along with their failures. The employees, followed leadership, they should be mad, they should hate. The Board, failed to find suitable leadership, failed to "make things right". No hate for the board, they liquidated their own equity, they can hate themselves if they like.

I know they are anti-customers, I accept this and disqualify their goods no matter how inexpensive they are. When a friend or family member expresses an interest in HP products, I advise them of my difficulties and let them make their own decision. They were a great company, they got cheap, they got arrogant, they got too big, they overpromised, they failed ad their failures compounded with each following miss. Others will fill the growing void they have left. For me, Lenovo, Samsung and Brother are providing greater value and reliability than I ever enjoyed with HP. Their consumer minded approach, works for me. No hate required. I didn't move my loyalty, HP did it for me.

Good thoughts Derek! I have many friends at HP who have nothing to do with webOS that work very hard for their customers. They were as excited for webOS as we were. They were/are part of the webOS community and many have actually suffered through cutbacks and layoffs as a result of the poor decisions you write about. They don't deserve any scorn or contempt from matters they had no control over.

Well said Derek. I don't hate HP, but I do pity the employees -- some of whom I have worked with and respect. Unless HP can distinguish itself beyond producing average commodity hardware, it is at risk of becoming irrelevant.

Hate is destructive.
Anger, on the other hand, can be very motivating. Focus that energy in a positive direction and you have donations to webOS internals, projects porting the OS to new hardware, or simply participating in webOS Nation.

Sorry Derek, but we all need to vent in some way and bashing a large company like HP probably does help a few. We're not bashing the employees, just upper management.

Good luck telling the 10's of thousands of exHP employees not to hate HP!

Fortunately though, I've been content with my Sprint Pre2 and continue to amaze my friends with the SIII and/or an Iphone 4/5. I still amaze myself... ;)

Very happy with my frankenpre2. There's things it doesn't do as well as the new things, but I don't depend on those things. Maps for example

There won't be 3D maps on webOS anytime soon, but have you tried 72ka's GoogleMaps(available in Preware)? It's the shizzle.

Nah, I still hate them. I hate that I have an iphone 5 coming to my house, my first ever apple product, because there is no real competitor. I hate that I don't have a smart watch when Phil Mckenny had one in that photo. I hate that I have had the word Palm on a device in my pocket for the past 16 years but it will all be over this week. The wounds are still too fresh for me. I will not buy another HP product ever. HP makes crappy products, that is the lesson I learned over the last year. Crappy in their build and crappy in how they treated me. HP is the story of poor management and lack of direction.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the iPhone5 specs are pedestrian at best. You should check out the Nokia 920 specs. Of course, the reason I am interested in switching from my Pre3 to one is it has a good wireless charging option! There is no way I could go back to plugging things in. "lightning connector" - whatever.

Not that I fully disagree with the point of your post, but iPhone 5 benchmarks blow away quad core competition (although the 920 hasn't been benched afaik).  It isn't about specs so much as the real world user experience.  Iphone destroys GSIII's 1.2ghz quad core with their 1ghz dual.

For one thing. The GSIII has two different setups. a 1.5 dual, and a 1.4g quad .
VZW has the dual core model which also twice the ram and storage, bigger screen AND an open[ish] OS compared to the iphone 5. And, the G note II is coming Q4.
I haven't seen benchmarks, but those don't always tell the whole story.
The point is there is plenty of comptition for the i 5 if you're not drinking the koolaid.

I hate hp. Open webos is joke, I want it for my pre2, and I want my palm name back

I held short term hate for HP, namely when Apotheker was still in charge and the months of questioning between his dismissal and Whitman's announcement about webOS/OpenwebOS. Frankly, in my opinion, finding fault with HP as a whole for this is similar to finding fault with Apple for deciding that iPhones didn't need applications beyond Safari.

At least some in the community will continue webOS, as well as those who have left the community developing in the other available OSes. I forget whose post it was that was shared here, but it was a developer's timeline of webOS and his comment ended something to the effect of a million webOSes will be born from this. I just hope they get better. Android little by little feels more webOS (I love the throwing away of recent apps to close them like webOS), iOS has decent app switching (last time I tried it, it was a matter of double tapping the home button, finding the app you need, tapping it, and letting it reload). I can't believe that either of these would've come to fruition without webOS.

Nice piece.  I have caught myself saying I hate HP in the past.  I never really thought of it as hating the company, maybe hating the upper management in charge of the bad decisions.  In reality it is just saddness and remorse for what webOS could have been.  I fell in love with the card metaphor in January 2009 and have yet to have anything else fill that void.  I made and sold apps.  I donated to WOSI.  I converted friends to Pres.  I pushed a Veer on my stepdaughter.  I felt a connection with this operating system that I have yet (and probably won't) to any other.  I know the story of the webOS downfall isn't only owned by HP, but at least it owns the latest chapter.  I guess I should also hold disdain for Verizon and Modernista, but I don't (well maybe Verizon some).
At the very worst, if I bump into Leo A on the street I will politely inform him that I am of the opinion he made a terrible decision to kill webOS.  I know HP has a lot of good employees working for a very large company.  Nothing but love!

No, Derek, no it's not.

Gonna need a little more time with that....

CHANGED, WHAT?? Goin back to same ol same ol, ceo's say, "maybe TP2 but no smartphone" then few days ago, "we have to be smartphone maker." QUIT TUCKIN UR TAIL AN LET UR BALLS HANG! Like u bought the OS Use it! Dont build another windows slate or another android craping device. You have the stuff to be a bigger Apple. Build the Phone, Tablet, Printer an PC that uses touch-to-share,wireless charging, at some point you have to stop buyin other liscense make them buy urs to connect to webos printer's, tv's, pc's, tablets make apps for other OS that connect to the webos devices. DONT MAKE SINCE BY A OS, then NOT USE IT, then BUILD DEVICES WITH ANOTHER OS! THAT IS NUTTS! I used my TP's Pre3 an Veer EVERYDAY an LOVE IT! HP yes Leo fudge up with the hardware cancelation but the firesell kick u to number 2 that month in tablets, yes it was a loss of 150 or so a tablet, but u spent that much in advertising so should have kept pushin firesell was best an cheapest adverting u could have done.. sorry for random thought just getts me fire up to see same thing starting again an here someone says the changed... webos fan been hearing this since 2009,, do this but we do that..etc..

You should chill bro.

Mr derek....

I appreciate your thoughts and opinion on the matter, its a very well written post that really makes you reflect many things about the concept of subject of hating HP. I been one of those people(who constantly on the forums) who been deeply hating and wishing them bad things to HP(despite years since WebOS cancellation). However, I do disagree on one thing that you mention in your column about HP is a rational company.

While you make it seem like HP(its a company) that thinks rationally, I beg to differ on that. HP is a company which if you read the recent scandals and stories within the HP board of directors, its not a company that thinks anything less but rational. So, don't try to place HP as a rational company because is not....If they were rational, don't think that they could had a least pick-up WebOS somehow by re-building its structure(enhancing its features and UI improvements) to try make it competitive in today's market ? Could at least the new CEO of HP Mrs. Whitman, Open source WebOS but continue making hardware for it ? Open Source WebOS, but not make it compatible with older hardware, very smart HP ?

HP rational ? Uh-mm not really....

+1

I'm sick of hearing (reading) the incompatibility argument. It doesn't hold water if you know anything about the technology. HP licensed technology and systems from other companies and CANNOT release that stuff as open source. As their goal is to make open webOS, well, open, they can't support legacy devices. Take your head out of your ass and realize that the Linux crowd has been fighting this same battle for years, often to no avail. It's lucky that companies like nVidia even release drivers for open source, and amazing that companies like AMD/ATI release specs.

That being sad, if you want open webOS to run on legacy hardware, start raising money so you can buy a license from every company who has a chip in a TouchPad or a Palm Pre/Pixi/Veer and figure out how to interface said drivers/licenses. Should be a walk in the park, right?

Thank god someone gets it. Honestly...

I hate everything about hp.

They have done nothing good with webOS and are not planning on doing anything good with webos.

I will never buy an hp product again... Unless it's using webOS.

Hate hate hate the company.

HP will miss you. actually they won't.

Hate HP, curse HP to Hell !!!!!!

I agree with everyone comments, hate in this matter is a good thing. I don't even buying an HP product again, even switched printers to another brand. If any future plans of buying a PC... my decisions will be to go for with Dell or Acer instead, screw HP once and for all.

One more thing....hoping that their Windows 8 tablet project, burns down in flames and they end up with another failure in their hands. Stupid HP....

I hate how the webOS community has been left in shambles.

I hate that webOS roundup had to shut down.

I hate that dieter bohn is no longer using a webOS device and doesn't write for this Site.

I hate that there are no more webOS podcasts...pre central podcasts was my favorite. Seriously used to look forward to those.

I hate that some of the best webOS developers have left for other platforms.

I hate that there are no more webOS app catalog pdates

I hate that there are no great home brew patches or over clocking tops etc.

i hate that some talented people have left hp or lost their jobs because of the decision.

I hate that I am no longer using a webOS phone because there are none.

Sorry... But how can one not hate hp?

And let's not forget one thing also, sorry third comment in a single post.

I hate that when I was looking forward for a Palm Pre 3, I'm still waiting for something that it will never happen(get my hands on one of those)... Then I hate HP because they never released it because of stupid decisions of HP.

I hate that, when developers were going to start creating applications for the Touchpad.... HP had to come in with their silliness of cancelling everything. And those developers moved on to Microsoft new windows mobile platform.

Hate that, and Hate this..... curse you HP for everything !!!!!!!

These comments demonstrate that the majority of those who are left is left in this community are partisan Palm ideologues determined to go down with the ship. I swear, five years from now there will be about a dozen people here who insist that their FrankenPre's or Pre 3's are working just fine and that they don't need 2 million apps.

Just the fact that such a significant percentage of the users here either modified the hardware of their smartphones or sought out one that wasn't even released in the US should give you the idea of who is really left, here. I commend all of the die-hards here for their perseverance, however, this is a pretty marginalized group. Nobody in the smartphone business should be listening to what is said here if they want to stay in business.

...and your point is...?

My point is that this site is the smartphone equivalent of the SNL "Da Bears" skit. Asking whether its time to stop hating HP is like asking those guys if its time to stop rooting for The Bears or suggesting that they aren't that great of a football team. The discussion is not grounded in reality.

You joined WebOS Nation 6 days ago to say that?.... Wow!!!! That makes sense. Somebody, what is the link for the Amiga OS forum? I need to tell those guys to hang it up too

Doesn't mean they are not Palm users going back ten years or more. Does webosnation membership need to be three years to be victimized by a corporation that lacked passion for its customers and the technology it purchased?

Derek, you say you won't buy another HP product, but there wasn't anything fundamentally wrong with the TouchPad. HP will probably release future webOS hardware. Are you sure you'll never be tempted? After all, it's the most beautiful mobile OS in the world. Many of us willingly sacrifice better hardware simply to stay in the ecosystem. Androids come and go, but our webOS devices are things to cherish. Heck, even if there's no future, even if HP silently ignore the platform, the joy of using webOS is one of the greatest pleasures in tech.

Dear Derek we love so much Palm, not HP, we have Palm not only in mind but also in heart.

They killed our love Brand, one of the greatest has ever been on earth

"One of the greatest has ever been on earth?" Are we talking about the same company? Honestly, brand-wise what did Palm ever do that was so great? A lot of people still associate some of the more iconic Palm products with 3com or Handspring.

Nice try Derek. At least I hate Apple more...

Very good article, Derek. While you and all the devs and homebrewers are the life blood of webOS, you alone may be the best voice for webOS.

When we say 'hate', some may mean it, but I think what others are really expressing is anger, not hate. It's a long-standing anger (and disappointment) that was born of "in the coming months" going all the way back to Palm.

We have been tantalized and teased for almost four years now by two companies (six years if you count the Palm Foleo). We've been given only enough to make us desperately want more -- and then told we won't get it.

I still hold out hope for webOS, and I am still willing to listen to HP. I've had a webOS device since 2009, and I've had my Pre 3 for a year now (and I'm using it right now!). It's my only phone. Sure it's showing its age compared to the latest Android or iOS device, but (call me crazy!) I have no desire to change. I have both a TouchPad and an iPad 2. I use the TouchPad every day while (call me crazy!) the iPad 2 sits alone, unused in my office. I have zero desire to upgrade to the new iPad, but (call me crazy!) I sure do want to win that TouchPad Go raffle!

Companies can and do change. Apple was once the cool alternative, now they're the corporate bullies. Microsoft was once the evil empire, now I kind of feel for them (ok, not really). Google was once the "don't be evil" company, and now...

I'm angry at HP's return on our commitment, but they can change. I still hold out some measure of hope for them. "Strike two!"

It seems like HP has given us no other choice than to vote with your wallet elsewhere.

I'd rather vote with my wallet for webOS, but they really haven't given me a way to. I can buy a bunch of apps that I won't use (I'm not a big app person), but that's it.

i find it hypocritical that moderators allow topics such as 'hp is doing the right thing' and yet at the same time censor other topics DARE to say that hp SCREWED us. i guess this forum just wants everyone to obediently follow along with that sentiment like little sheep.

as the guy above said. i'm voting with my wallet. i supported webos for a year. i praised its attributes. i resisted going to android. and how are we, the people who kept struggling to keep webos alive paid back? 'here is open webos. oops. none of your devices will be supported. tough luck'

well guess what? i wont buy another damn webos app ever again. hello andorid.

I never started. But then again I'm not a hater.

But if ever it was true it's true on this site that Haters gonna Hate.

This is a webos fan site. Most of us are here because we love webos and we hate when bad things happen to it and by extension those who did the bad things to it

Nope, its not!

:)

probly this write up would be better received over at the verge and other sites like that

The shareholders sure have a reason to hate HP!

"(I ended up settling on a metal-handled broom, which I thoroughly destroyed - it was most satisfying)" Derek, you savage!

I don't really think the webOS community is quite as hateful as Mr. Kessler may think. Typing "Damn you, HP!" and "I hate HP!" does not automatically translate to actual, real hate. It's simply hyperbole expressed about a series of great and immense missteps on the part of one company. Missteps that have been but perfectly outlined on this site, many times by Derek.

HP may have changed outlooks since Whitman took over as CEO, but she was on the board that oversaw the action took in 2011. The "hate" is still well deserved. But some credit is due HP with regards to webOS, no arguing that much, I think.

Maybe the title should be: "Maybe HP is due credit?"

well, when u say hate should be reserved for 'the fact that people die from senseless acts of violence perpetrated by individuals and governments around the world on a daily basis" hate becomes relative. In the big picture, we don't 'hate' HP. save that emotion for the Colorado shooter and Syrian government. However, in the world of smart phones and technology, many of us strongly dislike HP. bordering on hate.

I was mad for a while but I seldom hate anything

that said I strongly dislike when my HP printer messes with me ;-)

nice article Derek

I believe this is my favorite blog post ever. They're so many comments that I agree with. Damn You HP! And the horse you rode in on!

I still like my TouchPad and wish there were more WebOS applications available.

Sorry to say, it still seems like you have plenty of hate in your blood. The statement "I for one don't have any plans to buy any more HP products" speaks volumes.

The person you should hate is Leo Apotheker as he is the one who made a unilateral decision (without the Board's consent). He is the one that plunged HP's stock on that dreary day where he announced the end of WebOS and the PC Division.

I am also extremely disappointed about the loss of the WebOS product line. I love WebOS even though I am a neophyte relative to the experience folks have here in this community. As a pure dumb end-user that I am, WebOS is so much easier and cleaner than Android and IOS. But it is what it is and there is no "un-do" button to change that stupid decision of the past.

Your comments just hurt HP and its employees. Why would you do that? Everyone at HP that I know is a good and hard working person that wants to do the best for their customers. They make some freaking awesome products and have market leadership in many categories. They have taken a terrible beating and piling on is hateful.

Are they perfect? Of course no, but what company is perfect? Telling people you are not buying HP products is hateful. What if the "widget" you want to buy is best made or best value by HP? You still would not buy it? You buy the best widget in the market for your needs. That simply does not make sense if there is no hate.

HP has a lot of work to do to rebuild itself and recover from 13 months ago. They are working on that and will hopefully rise from the ashes that Leo left them with. But it will take time. They are a very large company and it takes time.

You need to truly let go of your hate to move on. HP still makes awesome products even if they screwed up their tablet strategy 13 months ago. See a counselor... take some Xanax... go on vacation... But truly let go of your anger and give HP a fair chance.

AANNNHHH!

Sorry NO we don't. Leo screwed the pooch here with his two faced lying and no communication change of course. Once The BOD saw the damage done they scrambled to save what they could. What is lost in this though is the FACT that the BOD was fine with this direction. It was the reason WHY Hurd was booted (the fact that there was an HR issue was the excuse).

I'm not angry with Whitman, she is doing the best she can in a bad situation. That doesn't mean I have or will forgive HP anytime soon. Yes the employees suffered. Tell that to all the persons lost in the changeover to OpenWebOS. For her to say we have to make a smartphone again is even more frustrating. Where are they going to get them from? They canned the very people who would have built them for the company. Unless you are quite desperate no one in their right mind would go to HP now.

As far as OpenWebOS is concerned it's comatose with no hopes of revival anytime soon. I don't like saying it but that's the truth. For the foreseeable future HP is going to be a Win8 Bi@tch. I have no interest at all in spending any more funds on HP. Call it hate I don't care. It's what they deserve.

Derek I would really like to be able to agree with you.
I will say this - HP deserves as much respect that they showed me, and every other Pre, Pre +, Pixie, Pre2, Veer and Potential Pre3 user, not to mention all the TP's out there.

Yes, I still Hate HP.

so why are my comments never published? they are not inflammatory in any way! mmmHHH

I think that HP (or HP board ) has continued there trend of gobbling up other companies and then destroying those brand names completely. I am voting with my dollar. No more HP products for me and if I can help it any of my friends.

Well! The person you should hate is Leo Apotheker as he is the one who made a unilateral decision (without the Board's consent). He is the one that plunged HP's stock on that dreary day where he announced the end of WebOS and the PC Division - this is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gK3nUmy3J8g

I don't hate HP, just thought they made a bad decision. It didn't stop me from buying a HP Folio this past December.

Once the glass cracks you cannot glue it together. For me to forgive HP I have to see Open webOS on new devices (thanks to the Homebrew community) and even then I will never buy HP products ever again (unless I need a spare Pre3 or Touchpad). Coming from using Palm products for years, they are the company who "saved" Palm and then flushed them down the loo !!!

Everybody makes mistakes, marketing, strategy, personal etc...
However some of the decisions make no sense what so ever and really not justifiable...

For me, the hate against HP for dropping webOS subsided long ago... Right around the time they announced their support for windows8 and its devices.

Yes I know they are a hardware company with a long standing relationship with MS but Win8 makes me mad! ;)

I hate HP... not so much for killing webOS (although it doesn't help), I just find that their products are terrible... their printers barely know what a Mac is... and their computers are filled with so much bloat it makes me wanna kill a large animal... I love, and always will love Palm...

we should never forget what HP has done and is doing of course. yes, we have to hate them. we should never forget.

I don't hate HP per se, I hate the HP board members that forced out Hurd and chose Leo

I hate that HP (and some fanboys) had unrealistic expectations for such poor hardware such as the TouchPad. I hate that HP threw the Pre3 into landfills, and didn't bother making the Stingray, instead making the Veer. Instead of learning from their mistakes, they completely folded and gave up, abandoning webOS. Sure, there's openwebOS, but the chances of seeing it on new phones available to the mainstream public is slim to none. Why would a 3rd party make a webOS phone if HP themselves won't commit to making one?

I don't really hate HP. But I still want to kick Leo Apotheker in the nads for killing a product line before it really had a chance to mature.

I love the feel of my pre2. But I don't love the tiny screen, no autofocus on the camera, no FF cam, no netflix on it or my TP, and no DEVs to speak about bringing us new stuff. I'm ready to dump my HP/palm stuff because of that. I do want new faster better HW and new better SW. I have had many palms over the years, but... 
My other phone is a Droid 3 and it has all those things except, it doesn't seem faster.
My next phone is either a GSIII or a GNII. Though I wouldn't turn down a pre3 as a gift!!!

i dont know I was just discussing this with another friend just a few days ago and to me it seems that hps products have become the cheapest in the past few days also they are reputable PSs I think and well me and him are in the market for a new computer and laptop well we went with hp again it seems that hps products have become the cheapest and after all the HATE! i dont know i think that maybe the reason why is because hp is apologizing to the public this way because of all the wrong they have done to us all the webos community and i do think that well they are a bunch of dogs and deserve a slow and very painful death and deserve a place in the most desconforting level of hell of dantes inferno. but well we decided to treat them like the dogs that they are so ok ill take their stupid apology and I will buy their good cheap products and this way I will be smarter so thats what we decided :-) / ok I just hope to god that webos dosent die ;'(

Just because they haven't done much wrong under the new management, they have't done anything right yet. All we have for now is some words that they are willing to change their path and feel committed to tablets or whatever.

Basically, they have eliminated webOS on the phone and tablet market. If they feel sorry, I just want them to say sorry - and take action to undo the fault. That's all. No hate here, but they have to deliver in some way. If they keep saying it was a big fault, but don't come back to the market, they don't MEAN it. And with this we are back to HP under Leo Apotheker: what they say does not match what they mean.

So, what again was the difference between Leo and Meg? I don't know yet.

HP may have accidentally saved the tablet market from a total Apple victory by establishing a price point at which people would move. Google's subsequent $199 tablet was a nod to the fact that so many Touchpads moved so quickly at $99.

However, in the world of smart phones and technology, many of us strongly dislike HP. infrared sauna reviews