Merrill Lynch turns bearish on Palm, slashes stock price targets 80
It wasn’t that long ago that Merrill Lynch analyst Vivek Arya was all gung-ho about Palm, placing the stock in the buy column with a $20 price target. But Arya’s optimism seems to have faded, and he has not only moved Palm into the underperform (i.e. sell) column, but has slashed the price target in half to just $10 a share.
While Arya believes that Palm’s webOS is better than most mobile operating systems, he said that “Palm’s superior platform features have not translated into sufficient carrier support and consumer demand, and we are concerned the window of opportunity may be closing as Google’s Android ecosystem gains ground, {Research In Motion] revitalizes its portfolio, iPhone increases its presence, and as Microsoft reboots its efforts with Windows Phone 7.” Additionally, he is concerned by Palm’s cash resources - at the end of the last quarter Palm had just $590 million on hand - money that Palm is burning through incredibly fast.
Arya has also noted something that we have heard a lot of: while Verizon staffers are generally knowledgeable about the Pre Plus and Pixi Plus that their stores carry, they are tending to push the Motorola Droid, HTC Droid Eris, and BlackBerry devices over the newer Palm smartphones. Even if Palm manages to add AT&T and T-Mobile to their carrier partners list, Arya doesn’t expect a significant boost in unit sales. With all that in mind, he has cut his prediction of how many units Palm will move in the coming quarter to 900,000 (down from the 1.1 million previously expected). Arya doesn’t expect Q4 to be much better for Palm, anticipating 1.2 million units shipped in the quarter, a cut of 300,000 from previous estimates.
There is one positive note, and it’s that the heavy advertising campaign that Palm has put on seems to be paying off with stronger sell-through (presumably at Sprint and Verizon stores). But amongst all this doom and gloom, it’s just a glimmer of hope as the expensive campaign is being supported by Palm’s diminishing cash pile.
Read: Barron’s
80 Comments
Why does everyone hate on Palm. They just got back into the smartphone market again and they are already saying its not gonna happen...
That's how the investment game works. You rag on a company, drive their stock down, and you buy up a crap load of bargain basement stock. Then you start to talk a company up and wait for the suckers who take your advice to buy it up and you make a killing. All the while you rant and you rave to show people how much you care about their money. Sure some of that is technically illegal but it's not like anybody actually enforces the laws on Wall Street -- that would be commie fascism and we can't have that in America.
So what this analyst is saying is that Palm will sell 900,000 phones this quarter and 1,200,000 phones next quarter, right?
Interpretation: "Palm will sell over 4 million webOS phones this year"
So where is the bad news?
Love or hate for a platform is fine when you are buying a smartphone and playing with it every day. However, developers, who are staking their livelihood on the success or failure of a platform have to take a more objective view. So do investors who are taking a stake in this company. So, you will have to forgive those who don't engage in mindless cheerleading just because they bought a cool phone.
You make a good point.
Alot of major developers have stated that without providing the necessary API's for many basic functions and hardware access, as well as the limits mojo provides, that they wont even consider webOS as a platform to develop on.
It's a two way thing, developers will only develop for webOS once the market share increases sufficiently to be viable enough, yet market share 'wont' sufficiently increase if the Apps aren't there.
To the average customer 140,000 apps (iPhone) or 25,000 (Android) is much more enticing then Palms meager 1500. No matter the strengths of the platform, unfortunately.
I only think Palm Phones will really be pushed once these API's are given, and the OS has reached 'consumer' usablity, i'd say webOS 2.0
Thats a point 6 months ago not a point now.
PDK is there to access what they cant with MojoSDK.
Also, Android is pain to develop for given so unstandard all the UIs are and the few guidelines it got.
And if you are a really independent iphone developer you need far more investment than with WebOS just to learn objective-c and just to actually buy Apple computers and just to survive arbitrary review guidelines.
The main problem is Palm exposure to the common people. Palm fighting with mediatic giants. Palm exposure is still none, they need to be mediatically backed by a huge brand.
Smart developers will know that theyll get a great exposure with their application for webOS right now for a lot of people, while they would have to survive the bloated app store of iphone, in which doing so is really a question of money or luck.
So is actually a GOOD time to be developer for webOS for this kind of independent project if you know how to take advance of that and invest for the future.
Ah you are missing some points. As a developer it is perfect to have a untouched Platfrom. Imagine you want to develop an iPhone app. You have more than 100000 apps around you. You idea must be revelotionairy to actually have succes!
Now on the other hand think about the Palm platfrom. Has only 1500 apps and in europe less than 300. Many people bought the Pre and are willing to pay for apps. Since there are so less your app has a great chance to be bought. Thats a fact!
And last think about the google android platform. It's open source and most people buy it because they know what open source means. Those people don't really like to pay that much -> Linux is a good reference.
So as a dev the webOS is a great new platform. We will have to wait for the PDK to come and apps will follow.
I will wait for paid apps in Germany and then release 2 apps if they will be approved ;).
Do not care.
troll
It is a waste to even think the thoughts others have about this. Palm needs to keep the pace and even shift a gear up now to burn the rubber, smokin'.
Roll out 1.4. with all the goodies and then get carriers on the boat in a quick way. If I say quick I mean quick.
And make this phone available as a developer phone real soon, meaning giving people the opportunity to buy it unlocked GSM flavored for a good price...
It's at the palm of your hands...
It is a waste to even think the thoughts others have about this. Palm needs to keep the pace and even shift a gear up now to burn the rubber, smokin'.
Roll out 1.4. with all the goodies and then get carriers on the boat in a quick way. If I say quick I mean quick.
And make this phone available as a developer phone real soon, meaning giving people the opportunity to buy it unlocked GSM flavored for a good price...
It's at the palm of your hands...
What's really sad is that the carriers sales people are pushing the Android OS. A friend played with my Pre for a few hours and I showed him all the cool features, had him sold. He went into Sprint to get a Pre and the salesman totally trashed it and he walked out with a Hero. While the Here is a nice phone it's no Pre, and the fact that the salesman pushed the Hero is not fail to Palm.
Ran into the same issue at a Sprint store as well. I was showing my wife the Pre for when we get our upgrades ( two Pre's for us ) and I was talking to the guy beside me. He had been talking with a sales rep and I stepped in when it was obvious that the rep had no idea about either the Android OS or WebOS. He was just pushing phones.
You would think that sales people would at least be informed about their own products.
It is a sad fact that TOO MANY cellphone sales reps are of the "You want Fries with That?" mentality.
And the fact the Hero has Android 1.5 still and it wont run Google Earth. There will be a lot of upset Hero fans out there once they find out they cant run the latest software.
My guess is Mr.Arya lurks into precentral. Which is good. But an analyst just cannot quote the Verizon sales pushing Droid over Pre without solid evidence.
I love my phone but I am afraid we will not have webos in the future....more people need to buy the phone for palm to survive (duh) and there just aren't enough of us out there.
I think you are correct. But this is Palms own fault. They had a weak Palm OS for several years and they just sat and did nothing. They royally messed things up with the Foleo, it was a complete waste of resources and time. It allowed for the iPhone to get the jump on them and the iPhone will never look back.
Of course, it's easy to give blame now. Palm needs to be bought by a company with deep pockets who can pull out all the stops for advertising and will allow the WebOS to evolve.
+1 They let Garnet get soft. Then they didn't grandfather in the Garnet resources. Then they started from scratch with both hardware and software in a quickly maturing market. They need to be acquired or partnered and they need it soon, or WebOS will be another "great product/bad timing" deal.
UntidyGuy is pretty much right. It's all business! Most people in the financial sector are being critical of Palm not because they hate them, but because of the numbers and statistical figures being analyzed. Palm doesn't have deep pockets like Google. Seriously, if Android was pushed out by someone other than Google (w/ its deep pockets) it would probably be a different ball game. Symbian is major because its the international OS of choice. Iphone has Apple behind it so it can make duds (i.e. iPad) yet still have the funds to either (1) brainwash us to want one, or (2) scrap it and go back to the drawing board. Palm can't do that with its less than $600 million @ hand. It sucks because I'm a Pre owner and I too believe webOS is far superior than Android, iPhone IS, Symbian, and WinMo. All these articles however has not turned my back on Palm as I believe they can still climb this 'smartphone' ladder and surprise everyone who doubt its capability as a company.
...I do disagree on one point Vivek Arya states. I believe adding webOS devices on AT&T and tMobile will boost Palm's finances/popularity/exposure one way or another. Consumers want variety...they want different...but most of all they want something that they can learn quickly & easily - yet continues to evolve so there's always something new brought to the table!
...be a believer =)
FWIW, there are currently plenty of Palm (not carrier) adds for the Pre in Manhattan - on payphone booths (LOL),and buses (Transit Authority and private (doubledecker) tourist bus lines). Go Palm!
This tells me that Palm's not gonna make it: my brother and his wife got new driods and are excited. The sales person said it was the best smartphone (definitely pushing drioid over palm). He didn't consult me because his phone broke suddenly.
I was a Commodore Amiga owner back in the day and despite being the better platform, PCs took over and Commodore folded. Same thing will happen here. Palm had a small window, it's closing fast.
I love WebOS and I don't want to see it handled by anyone other than Palm. But I am coming to the conclusion that Palm must be sold or sunk. I believe that Palm has one more chance in it's second year to bring in second generation WebOS devices to raise the bar in terms of hardware. More form factors will bring in new customers. But I feel that this year will be either make or break for Palm.
We'll have to see if 1.4 makes any headway. As far as I know (and I'm no expert) this update is it, right? If there's going to be a push in getting these cool a$$ phones in peoples hands, having video, Flash etc will have to be the that "thing" that gives this platform the umph it needs to get over the hump....or else. Unless there's something coming in the near future that improves and gives the Pre that "cool factor" that the droid has...
Palm needs to:
1)sell the pre plus and pixi plus versions outside USA! Canada, Mexico, Germany, UK etc. only have the 8GB Pre version and no pixi!!!
2)sell webos phones in MORE-MORE-MORE countries!
3)open app catalog outside USA
It's like Palm is selling only in the USA!
I teach Belgian students how to fly. They almost always covet my phone and say they plan on getting one when they get home. It's the best phone they've seen.
The pre is not available in Belgium. Even if it was, they wouldn't have the apps available that I have. I haven't had the heart to tell them.
It's the best phone they've seen.
Of course, if the Pre is not available in Belgium and almost everyone only knows the iphone like windows on pc...
iPhone has many more apps but the Pre has many advantages over the iPhone like multitasking, notification, synergy, keyboard, flash coming, more open os etc.
You are just a troll.
Ok sooooooo Palm needs to steal Apple's marketing dept still.
I was out to eat the other day at a restaurant and I noticed a guy with a Pre and so we struck up a conversation about "our" phones, several minutes later after we had been agreeing about all the coolness of the phone, his wife informed me that the Pre was her phone and that her husband used an iPhone, he said he really liked the multitasking and was considering getting his own Pre, superior products we have, now we just got to get the marketing going (I like what Verizon has been doing during the Olympic broadcast) Palm is on the right track, let's all remember the timetable that brought the iPhone to prominence.
+1. Or think about how long it took Android to be as "popular" as where they are today (I am not saying how GOOD, but how popular). I remember Android was talked about 5 years ago? The first phone came out about 2+ years ago? Even after that many years, the UI is so backward. WebOS is way ahead of them. Also, can Google hire some icon designers to come up with something more eye catching?! It looks like a phone for NERD/GEEK!
I still think WebOS will succeed but they need to move fast since they don't have the kind of cash that Google or Apple has. I trust the Palm CEO Jon to bring WebOS to the masses.
These days it's all about the next big thing and let's face it, the Palm Pre was just that at CES over a year ago. In this age of one-upmanship, Palm has been a non factor since the initial wow of webOS. Superior OS' alone don't get to #1 all the time. They need powerful marketing to keep the product top of mind and Palm has fallen way short there. With phones you need to suck in the kids as well as adults which is what Apple and Android have done exceptionally. Apple even managed to create it's own pseudo-cult with their business model. I fully agree that the Pre is the best phone i've ever owned, but even I can't wait to get into the new one whatever and whenever it comes. Consumers are fickle and easily controlled once you have the right mix of product and market presence. Palm failed at the latter and needs a new great thing to get back in the game. I truly hope they do it soon and instead of secrecy it needs to tease and entice the public starting now about what is next which I pray is coming soon and based on the Pre model rather than the silly Pixi afterthought.
As PALM trades in the $8.50 range, I believe I read that Elevation Partners has their stake in PALM at an average of $7 per share or something. They are probably nearing the break-even point given their opportunity costs of this investment. One wonders what their next move is.
I would guess that they are shopping around for a partner; some kind of hardware company that needs a platform. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be any obvious choice other than an HP or a Dell which would be a serious underdog in the smartphone wars.
Note to Palm:
It's your form factors and crappy, slow hardware, not the OS that is the problem! Sell slate styles with snapdragons and people will come. Feature updates on the OS are useless when people are getting TMC errors left and right!
Agreed. The OS is brilliant. The hardware is crap. My Pre developed spiderweb cracks in the screen (stress fractures from pushing the "home" button) after 5 months of use and Bell told me that it wasn't covered under manufacturer's warranty. Luckily I bought the insurance, but it came with a $150 deductible. When I got the replacement phone, the screen stopped recognizing touches after 1 week. The replacement for that came, and now the power button on it is borked. I am now waiting on my 4th Pre in 1.5 months! You can't make money doing that.
What are you doing to your phones?? My Pre already fell down from about one and a half meters on soild ground and there wasn't even a scratch. Also one day I accidently kept it together in my pocket with my keys and again not even a scratch. I think you must gentle your strenght.
I've dropped my Pre on cement three times. Nothing happened. Works great.
Palm could learn from the "Pet Rock" of the 1970s. You can convince people to buy anything with the proper marketing (Google is doing this NOW). Hell, if you can get a bunch of idiots to buy a pebble, then getting them to buy an awesome phone should have been easy.
#1 issue at hand : BUILD QUALITY! (TM)
palm's failure to do ANYTHING regarding the "rumors" about the february 15 release date is one of the many reasons why this small company has no chance against Google and Apple
i say we're about 3 months from a buyout.
(+1) 3-6 months
I truly believe I am using the best phone on the market with my Pre. I looked at a lot of phones before I went with it and continue to keep up with developments in the smart phone world. More and more I believe I went with the right platform/plan: single control of platform and hardware with development across devices easier and longer lasting and operation that is easy to use and efficient. Yet I am totally baffled as to why Palm, or Sprint and now Verizon are not getting this point across AT ALL. Where is the amazing marketing?
I think webOS 1.4 is critical, it needs to have a little wow factor built in, letting a broader user base and potential customers to see it as "the cool smart phone to have."
...and not just a US wow factor. Would be nice to get non US Pre owner advertising their phones to everyone they meet instead of telling everyone to go elsewhere.
Don't get me wrong I LOVE the phone. I do think it's one of the best out there and has the potential to be SO much more. But time is slipping.
We need some European wow factors..we dont even have the basics here...let alone the Wow!
Yahoo please
iplayer please
Spotify please
Msn please
Skype please
last fm please
and add a 2way sync to that list please
Hire a guy to find the makers of the best looking/sounding apps around. Hustle, haggle and beg if you have to. A single kick ass app will sell a dozen phones in a crowded bar.
The unhappy people will always shout the loudest and in worldwide online community you cant afford to pamper a single region. For all the advertising in the US the European word of mouth is very loud indeed and it isn't saying nice things. (oh and get a decent PR company in Europe)
Cut some deals Palm...get things moving.
Mr. Rubenstein has a lot of work ahead I hope he's ready...
I went to a Verizon store and the sales rep had told me that they are not selling the Pre Plus and Pixi Plus because they get a lot of customers who don't like the Pre Plus and Pixi Plus. She said that she pushes the Droid phone's over the Palm Pre Plus. Yesterday I went to the Sprint Store to pay a bill and one of the customers that I was talking with was saying that he is waiting for Palm to unleash the Palm C40 which is rumored to be the Palm Pre 2. He said he was unhappy with the functionality of the Palm Pre 1 and said that when you have four or five cards open you get that stupid error message that pops up sometimes and with the Palm Pre Plus you don't recieve that message with 45 cards open. But he likes Sprints coverage and that they are reasonable compared to Verizons expensive service plans. Maybe in this customers mind he's thinking that Palm has great potential to beat all of their competitors but has'nt really displayed anything that is like WOW!!!. This customer said he was looking for speed and a lot of memory. This has to be the year for Palm to blow the socks off their competitors or it's over for them. They need to come out with better and stronger hardware for the Pre and put a lot more stuff in their updates for their software. We have to see what WebOs 1.4 will bring to the table and other updates following and Apps, Apps, Apps please more Apps!!!! This has to be the year for Palm. Lets make it happen.
he Palm Pre is a beautiful device and users seem to be devoted to it once they've used it for an extended period of time. The experience is seamless and I truly think it is the best smartphone in the market. Its a fantastic alternative that sits between the Blackberry and the iPhone market segments. Besides the battery issue, its my favorite little thing!
In retrospect, the product launch failed for a couple of reasons. One, the "lost years" caused the company to tip on the verge of oblivion, which gave the launch negative traction, the 6 month lag between the introduction at the first CES and its commercial availability led to a dip in interest, tying tired Sprint with tired Palm was a difficult selling proposition to begin with (even though both their respective realities were really quite different). Then the build quality issues started to dominate the headlines, and so did competition from Android and the like. And those initial Borg commercials were just plain bad and failed to inspire anyone. Although Jon Rubenstein claimed it got people "talking", Im not an advocate for "all press is good press" - this device is about features and it needed to be presented as such.
The faltering interest in the Palm Pre infected the Verizon Pre Plus launch. Their initial market drive was lackluster at best with little frontline marketing ahead of Verizon's d-day. And using those advertisements that tried to sell the phone to mothers and girlfriends was like pitching low quality goods to poor black people. This device is aspirational and nobody wants to be pigeoned holed like that.
Finally, the Pixi was one of the most retarded gadget launches ever. Some might like the device, but there is no compelling feature on the phone - no compelling differentiator . Unlike when RIM dominated the smartphone industry and the Centro made sense to the personal user by allowing them to tip their toes into the nascent market, the Pixi excited no-one. You see the Apple Iphone and others have learnt to turn the mobile phone into devices that absorbed themselves into our lives. Maybe Im wrong (because I dont have the actual numbers), but the Pixi introduction represented a wasted allocation of time and resources.
Palm has finally started to market sensibly. It comes with a price and maybe a little too late. But, and this is the most important but of my comment, at these levels, I buy. The stock price is depressed like a highly depressed coil after attracting significant short interest. Any good news or a general improvement in market sentimentality and boing, boing, boing!!! This is a short term trade, I personally will sell when it hits the mid 9 handle... but that just me.
At the end of the day though, I hope Palm achieves the level of interest that allows it to print money and it becomes the product of choice to those that know!!
A year ago you could only have ONE application running at once. Remember and now someone is moaning about the limit of 4-5 applications running at pretty much the same time...what is that? Narcistic, yes that's it. Some people need to get a grip of reality really. Look at the Jesusphone, it can only handle one application at a time and it breaks down when a SMS arrives or a mail whilst talking on the phone.
To the hardwar failure, well what can I say I have been blessed or what? Or did I treat my phone respectfully enough...
Seriously I have done a lot with my phone since I bought it...everything still works perfectly.
Maybe some should get an outdoor phone with GSM basic functionality for their needs.
Remember it is a screen and it's all plastic. It's not aluminum and it is not a brick you can throw at someone ;-).
Cheers
No buzz, no buzz, NO BUZZ!!
This phone is basically unchanged in over a year. Android is rolling out more impressive devices on a monthly basis. Iphone is about to release the 4G. Winmo just unvieled Win Phone. BB's are still be released at a decent clip. Palm shot its load on day one. Where is thier snapdragon high res device? What is happening with Web OS 2.0? Palm is playing with the big boys on a shoe string budget. Its a shame.
I don't see your point. How can you say this device is unchanged when the webOS platform has had so many updates. Android is rolling out alot of devices because it's the only OS that any manufacturer can use. Sure the numbers are nice, but the amount of confusion caused by the fragmentation is worrisome. Apple's device is more resistant to change than any of those youlve listed and like Palm, they've announced nothing about their next phone. I agree with this issue about Palms lact of Buzz, but palm certainly didn't shoot it's load day 1.
I say now as I've said from day one of the iTunes fiasco. Palm branded themselves as a group of hacks and thieves. While the counter-cultural types were pumping their fists in the air and goading Palm to continue their hackery, the mainstream saw Palm for what they were. Palm traded a reasonably good image for a few weeks of stolen iTunes compatibility. Those faithful Palm fans who never saw the problem back then are the same people who don't understand Palm's lack of success today. Palm sowed the wind and is reaping the whirlwind. Palm will never fully recover because no one will ever be able to take them seriously. They are now, just a slightly more successful version of Psystar.
Palm can still survive by making really good solid cutting-edge smartphones, with no significant manufacturing defects, which will continue to make Palm a relevant player in the mobile communication market. Pre models can be used to do the above. For example if the sliding keyboard is dropped from all the Pre models, total headache of manufacturing defects arising out the sliding keyboard will be gone. Then the phone should have on-screen keyboard with both portrait and landscape modes as a native app. Meanwhile a ramped up Pixi can be made with faster processors, larger memories(also the RAM),standard 5Mp camera, little bigger screen with much higher resolution can be made to give customers a solid useful must-have-type feeling experience. Pixi lines should have one of the best exposed keyboards. Well one thing is sure in life, good products always win. Palm may be slow in capturing the market-share but as long as Palm stays steady, Palm is going to win.
Another thing, we shouldn't whine about Verizon's approach to advertise Palm's products and trying to push Palm's products thru its sales counter, since they Verizon spent about $100 million of its own money in marketing for Moto dRoid, so naturally they do push Moto-dRoids instead of any Palm products.
palm def needs a better built phone and def styles(slates and sliders and candybar)...if palm doesn't make it I would like if they sold the os or shared it with a company that knows how to make powerhouse phones(htc)...
The die was cast on launch day. Everyone say "liquidity event" together!
Palm needs to parnter with someone big...Cisco, IBM...someone like that. Then not only develop smartphones but other CE related devices like a tablet or mini slate. This helps expand the brand and give the name 'Palm' some street cred and get noticed.
I do think it's a little funny how quick everyone is to jump on Palm with just one analyst's downgrade. Analysts have been doing this for years, and people here and elsewhere have been calling Palm's immanent demise for years as well. Certainly there have been missteps and missed opportunities, but there is no "deadline" when it comes to smartphones. A year or so ago, it looked like Apple was going to eat up all competition and become THE smartphone. No longer the case. Android is the platform that's eaten into Apple's inheritance, not WebOS, but still. My main concern is the reports of carrier reps dissing the Pre. Palm should take some serious action. These are partners, and my sense is that the partnership does not say that they should push people AWAY from buying Palm phones.
WebOS 1.4 is important, but only if Flash is ready. That is the one thing that the Pre will have that the others don't, but that might not last very long (at least for Android). Next up, as people have suggested, is beefier hardware. Yes, running 4-5 apps is much better than just 1, but if you keep getting TMC errors (even sometimes with 1 or NO cards open), this will annoy people much more than just having to switch between apps with no errors. If I were Palm I'd be putting the Pre Plus's additional RAM in every new Pre manufactured. If they can without huge cost, even retrofit old Pre's with more RAM. Getting a 4G Pre out will also be a big plus, but only really for a small subset. It'll show they're on the cutting edge, but most people don't want to be there because it is a) expensive, and b) buggy. If they can get the price down even for people who want to switch in the middle of their contract. Maybe offer the current Pre and Pixi (on Sprint anyway) for those in the middle of their contract for free in return for a contract extension?
A deep-pocket buyer would be nice, but you can't count on that. Wishful thinking really. You need to assume and hope that Palm can do this on their own. So far they've managed to stay alive more times than a cat, so as hard as the current landscape looks, they've certainly managed to survive in situations that were equally unpromising.
Multitasking is not a revolutionary function. Only the way Palm executed it is cutting edge. RIM, Android, Symbian and Winmo all multitask. Only the Iphone lacks the ability.
As I said earlier, Palm needs new hardware to get people excited. And without the cash to invest in R&D, they are tredding water.
Sorry... WinMo 7 will not multitask. So sorry!
I think that Palm has laid the foundations for a dramatic comeback! With one more product they will have a full and competitive product line covering every price point with great devices. If this new device has the hardware specs needed to be competitive...at least a 3.5inch hD screen, native virtual keyboard, 5mp camera, 4G capabilities, massive internal storage, great battery life, along with WebOS 2.0...it will put Palm on the map and boost sales for the entire line!
Palm has 2 understand that their true competition is not Apple or RIM but Android! 2.0 and the C40 have to aim to hit Android right between the eyes. We may have the superior platform but our features are two steps behind. As we get excited about finally getting video, Android's flagship devices are adding advanced voice to text capabilities and exciting hardware advances.
With the PDK and 1.4 Palm is laying the foundations to finally offer a complete smartphone experience. 2.0 will have to bring us great customization(Palm supported patching directly from the App Catalog?), widgets, innovative voice capabilities, a native virtual keyboard, and the ability for developers to easily port their apps from other platforms. If they do this, along with the launch of a hardware competitive C40, Palm is right back in the game!
It's like the launch of the Pre all over again except this time WebOS is on nearly every major carrier, has a full line of well designed devices at every price point, a full app catalog, 3D gaming, and at last a fully functional phone. It's a wonder Palm has lasted this long with a partially functional Pre as it's only flagship, the awesomeness of WebOS has bought it time and finally the pieces are in place.
This year will be Palm's true rebirth!
The Palm Phoenix(C40) coming this summer!
you raise some valid points, especially with regards to Palms main competitor being Android, but I just don't see palm keepin up w/ Google when it comes to software based features. It's becoming more and more clear that google intends to move all their web based services to mobile devices with their OS getting first dibs...
I think that Palm has laid the foundations for a dramatic comeback! With one more product they will have a full and competitive product line covering every price point with great devices. If this new device has the hardware specs needed to be competitive...at least a 3.5inch hD screen, native virtual keyboard, 5mp camera, 4G capabilities, massive internal storage, great battery life, along with WebOS 2.0...it will put Palm on the map and boost sales for the entire line!
Palm has 2 understand that their true competition is not Apple or RIM but Android! 2.0 and the C40 have to aim to hit Android right between the eyes. We may have the superior platform but our features are two steps behind. As we get excited about finally getting video, Android's flagship devices are adding advanced voice to text capabilities and exciting hardware advances.
With the PDK and 1.4 Palm is laying the foundations to finally offer a complete smartphone experience. 2.0 will have to bring us great customization(Palm supported patching directly from the App Catalog?), widgets, innovative voice capabilities, a native virtual keyboard, and the ability for developers to easily port their apps from other platforms. If they do this, along with the launch of a hardware competitive C40, Palm is right back in the game!
It's like the launch of the Pre all over again except this time WebOS is on nearly every major carrier, has a full line of well designed devices at every price point, a full app catalog, 3D gaming, and at last a fully functional phone. It's a wonder Palm has lasted this long with a partially functional Pre as it's only flagship, the awesomeness of WebOS has bought it time and finally the pieces are in place.
This year will be Palm's true rebirth!
The Palm Phoenix(C40) coming this summer!
My biggest fear for the platform is that it ends up like BeOS*, which is a real possibility right now.
* BeOS was the most advanced desktop OS for nearly a decade (and still is, in some regards). Ironically, it was purchased by Palm some time ago.
Very sad. Which will happen first; Palm burning thru all their cash, or the release of 1.4?
WE can't let this happen! The world needs to know how awesome this OS is (the hardware is another story..hehe)....WE all need to go out and make a video to show how f'n awesome webos is and post it on youtube!
Unless something drastic changes, Palm is in trouble.
I've been behind them since I picked up my Pre, but I'm not liking the way certain things are going, nor am I feeling comfortable with Palm's ability to right the ship.
They've got a great mobile OS, no doubt. The hardware sucks. It's not a premium device, and people buy mobile on two things. (networks being equal)
1. Brand recognition
2. Hardware
Palm certainly doesn't have alot of brand recognition in this new round of the smartphone war, so they need decent hardware. The Pre and the Pixi are not what I would consider Premier or Flagship handsets.
Palm needs to do something on this front, or they are buried.
So its kind of ironic that an institution, that sucked at its job so much, it had to be bailed out, with literally all of our money........is talking so much smack about a company that has a better track record then them. Honestly when android came on the scene, it kinda set us back.......but seriously are we really listening too this douche bag?!
Believe ML was acquired by BofA, not assigned by the Feds. So the BofA shareholders suffered the burden and that is being investigated.
Palm has enough problems with carrier support and heady competition. If they don't get their act together and fix build quality issues there won't be a Palm in 2011-12. I suspect they're already in the red - in 8 months I'm on my 5th phone, and as Sprint reps are telling me, there are few sales in which people stick with Palm in the 30 day window. And those that do overwhemingly return for replacements.
Between bad personal experiences and word of mouth, until a reliable phone hits the market Palm should be hoping for fewer sales. Just sayin'.
How do you expect others to believe in webOS if you yourself don't believe in webOS. I believe whole heartedly I have one of the better smartphones on the market. Plus considering that Palm has launched 2 diff handsets and pushed several major updates in less than a year I'm happy. Ask Apple users who bought the 1st iphone, what they had to do to get video. Everybody sounds like there riding a bandwagon, being from la I'm use to this. Nobodies a laker fan when it looks like where not in the playoffs, but as soon as we score a win everybody shouts out how they believed in it all along..Alotve Palm users are the same sadly
I think Jon Rubinstein has made some mistakes. He is a product guy, an engineer and the platform is really first class. Where are his problems? Sales and Marketing. The head of global sales, Dave Whalen, had no previous experience in Silicon Valley and he failed miserably at Openwave. Many Palm sales people have left in the recent weeks frustrated for the lack of leadership. In addition, the marketing leaders are also failing to create excitement with customers. Time to make changes.
THIS IS *THE* ASSESSMENT WHEN IT COMES TO PALM.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Don't get me wrong - I love my Pre! That said, I won't recommend it to friends and work colleagues. In fact, I tend to talk them out of it.
1) unless hacked & patched it's just a 'meh' experience
2) Sprint replacement policy - bring phone to store, they acknowledge you need a replacement, a refurbished (only) model comes in the next day (hopefully). Takes awhile to get all your data and accounts back to working order. Biggest issue - refurbs! I've gone full circle on issues with original and replacements, and now my 5th phone just started to oreo. In my case I live 30 min from Sprint store. 5 hours driving time so far for replacements, and an average 3 hrs wait while in store. It's a big investment in time to own crap under contract.
3) too many friends and work peers live and die by their phone. Being without one for 48 hours just cannot happen.
Oops, Save & Preview are confusing at times, didn't finish above message.
Bottom line, I'm a diehard geek and love gadgets, even acknowledging that issues can arise, particularly with 1st gen device. However, most of the world is not like that. They buy a phone and expect it to work, 5 9s reliable. Statistically speaking, Palm Pre is nowhere near close.
WebOS is amazing - the hottest gadget OS out there. It's just too bad Palm wrapped a pig around lipstick.
Sometimes I ask myself why the folks at Pre Central like to report bad news so much. They report everything from Boy Genius which is usually very anti Palm, they report all the financial reports from every analysts and their baked opinions of the platform, they report every market share survey, they report every small bug that probably affects but .0001 of the user base and blow it up here as a major concern, and then they ask themselves why people are not signing up to Palm.
Guys, do the other smartphone experts sites spend as much time reporting gloom and doom about their os or do they report stuff that actually help existing users and those considering a switch to webOS.
You guys are gonna have to get you priorities straight. Are you helping users or are you trying to drive them off to some other platform. You do a great job of driving people away with all the doom and gloom. Please keep at it.
It's the hardware, not the software that is keeping people away from WebOS. :)
hardware didn't keep people away from HTC (anybody remember how bad the MDA was??) wait or Samsung ( Instinct???) or even MOTO (which has been known for crappy builds on multiple handsets across the board) True the Pre does need better hardware, (I'm on my 2nd one, and I've been a power user since launch) but overall I'm happy with my Pre. I just think morale is down with users not getting the 1.4 and flash as soon as expected. I will say Palm needs to add a slate type of device to the platform with no moving parts @ all. Most ppl tend to shun @ sliders ( I did, and after this device I still will lol) and the pixi is nice, but imo you don't get the full enjoyment of webOS unless you have a bigger screen. Palm should push a something like the Pre +, minus the keyboard and with a bigger screen. Upping to a snapdragon would b nice but not needed after seeing the bulk of what the Plus can do.
It's also required to take into account that a big market such as the european one is just currently underserved & underperforming not only in terms of geography (at the moment only Ireland, UK, Germany & Spain have Pres, and even not Pixis I guess; so you are missing France, Italy, Nordics,...) but also in terms of added value (App Catalog here in Europe is shameful). In addition, I think Palm could have better coverage in Europe (where has never been as known as in the States) by not having the same exclusive distribution strategy as Apple, and therefore follow the steps of RIM & HTC by including their devices in the catalog of so many big carriers as possible.
It's my opinion. Nowadays, market share is made of a strong footprint in major markets.
Wasn't Merril Lynch the same company that needed to get bailed out and was bought by Bank Of America so that THEY didn't go belly up?
Isn't Merrill Lynch the same company that lost millions during the sub-prime mortgage crisis?
Didn't GoldmanSachs DOWNGRADE Merrill Lynch's stock to a SELL during the financial crisis?
I'm just saying...
Oh, and while we're at it, can someone please look into Vivek Arya's portfolio?
I bet he's shorting Palm.
EXACTLY why I believe that the stock "updates" should be left outside of PreCentral.
Even on a good stock day, that information does not equate to any good for the PreCentral community. It's pointless to put any attention to this side of things at all.
As long as Palm makes a profit (which I'm sure they will for longer than most stock watchers would expect), why can't we focus on the technical side of things?? ... like geeks are supposed to do!
Let the financial investors do their gambling thing elsewhere. This is a technical forum... not a short-changing outlet.
And to anybody who thinks that these articles on PreCentral don't affect Palm's business, ask yourself how many more webOS phones would be sold if Derek ALWAYS played to the technical benefits of the Pre. Just think about that.
Yeah man!! And newspapers shouldnt report any bad news either. Every time they report about Wall Street being down, people get depressed. And they should stop reporting about the War in Afghanastan too!! That just brings people down. We should only have good happy news. That way we can live in a happy bubble where rainbows and candycanes are only a short distance away. A place where cats and dogs can live together in peace and tranquility. Good luck with that.
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