My visit to Palm: no revelations, but lots of encouraging words 53
As I had posted to the forums, I took advantage of a speaking engagement in San Francisco to reach out to Jon Zilber and his colleagues at HP about dropping by for a pilgrimage visit at the Sunnyvale HQ on April 12th. They were nice enough to agree, and I spent about an hour that afternoon with Zilber, Justin Ried and Evan Wilbrecht, taking a quick tour of the building (sorry, I didn't get to see any super sekrit labs) and sitting down in the cafeteria for a chat about webOS' present and future. Happily (but unsurprisingly), they were well aware of the questions being posted by our forum members, and we got to as many of them as we could given the limited time available. Nope, no breaking news here, but I got a good sense of the overall approach HP is taking, and it seems to be a promising one.
A few people wanted me to ask about some of the abandoned apps such as Classic and ePocrates. The Palm folks did not discuss those situations specifically, but rather pointed out that any relationship with software vendors is more complicated than simply "we wanted to continue and Palm/HP said no." For their part, commercial software developers seek revenue, whether through direct sales to consumers or by having their applications preloaded on a device in exchange for a royalty from the manufacturer. Those deals require negotiations; if the negotiations do not yield sufficient benefits to both sides, the deals don't go through, and what gets reported by one or the other side to the public may not reflect the full story.
More generally, HP's strategy for webOS across both its enterprise and consumer channels is forward-looking. Rather than focusing on a particular vendor and application that has historically been the product for a particular market, HP is evaluating current and future customer needs, and figuring out what combination of proprietary and third-party hardware, software, and services will best fulfill those needs, in order to make that combination available. That might not preclude encouraging a vendor like ePocrates to (re)enter the webOS market, but wouldn't necessarily require such efforts either. Remember, HP has literally thousands of its employees on site at its customers, together with a huge worldwide consumer presence, and such a deep integration with and understanding of its customers will yield significantly better needs analyses.
We touched a bit on the enterprise versus consumer dynamic. While HP clearly has substantial advantages over any competitors that will help it establish and expand webOS on the enterprise, it is also very dedicated to the consumer marketplace, with the Veer as a prime example of a consumer-focused product. As Zilber put it, "we want to sell both to you [an enterprise customer] and your nine-year-old daughter." It is easier to sell the number of devices via bulk sales to a few big enterprise customers than to explain to many, many consumers one at a time why webOS is a better choice than the numerous devices running Android, iOS and operating systems. As far as products, I asked the about the Veer's battery life, especially given the suggestion by Jon Rubinstein that it could serve as a regular mobile hotspot for the Touchpad, and was told that in their personal (though still early) experience, the Veer's battery life overall was good.
As for the Pre and Pixi original and Plus owners left without an official webOS 2.x upgrade path, HP is definitely well aware of the fact that lots of us feel that they still need to "make it right", whether it's through a trade-in program as it has done before, or something else. As you might expect, HP was not ready to tell us what their plans are.
Finally, we talked about how webOS is spreading throughout HP itself. While it is clear that HP is firmly committed to webOS as a critical part of its strategy, the vast majority of HP's workforce is only beginning to learn about webOS, its features and advantages, and how it can work for HP's customers. There is plenty of interest among HP's divisions about webOS, but the Palm Global Business Unit is still working to spread understanding to its sister business units about the mobile phone marketplace, its particular sales cycles, and the role of carriers in the process. As that understanding spreads, and as the upcoming webOS devices hit the market and get into both HP'ers and customers' hands, it will be much easier for HP's sales and service personnel to highlight webOS' unique features and competitive strengths for their markets. (For that matter, HP is already hiring webOS subject matter experts to enhance its sales efforts.)
Above all, my visit reminded me how unique Palm is among its competitors in its continuing commitment to its relationship with its users. Witness how readily they welcomed my visit. Yes, I'm a PreCentral writer, but I made it very clear that I was asking as a longtime user and fan, not a journalist, and the answer was an immediate and enthusiastic "yes." Zilber and his colleagues know, and care about, the concerns of the webOS community, and that approach is encouraged not only by Palm's own management, but by the upper-level execs within HP. Certainly, HP is still a huge worldwide and publicly traded company, with the inertia inherent in such entities (pundits frequently analogize large corporations to cruise ships or aircraft carriers in terms of how slowly they change direction). Still, even the largest companies have a culture which informs the decisions they make and their relationship to their customers. In sharp contrast to the "our way or else" philosophies of Apple and even Google, HP (at least via its Palm Global Business Unit) continues to demonstrate that in the smartphone and tablet marketplace, its users' views, and voices, matter.
Bonus below: pictures of Palm HQ and a video of the display cases of actual and prototype smartphones on display there (all taken, of course, with my Pre 2):
53 Comments
Be careful you don't get jumped by any over zealous developers upset about the leaks. Some of those dudes are taking this way too personally.
Easy for you to say.
No more info about mysterious keyboardless Pre?
know there's not much that can be done, but "hurry up" comes to mind.....
Thank you for the insight, Jonathan.
Folks, what we have here is a clear example of 'nuance,' something many of us seem to lack! Especially in regards to abandoned apps and the like, it's just simply much more complicated than, "they want, and so therefore, it'll be so." Everything is informed by the bottom line; sometimes, that takes time and sometimes, it doesn't pan out.
But the absurd notion that HP is going to totally fail in this venture, either through ignorance or ill-preparedness, is just ludicrous. Be patient. Wait. Start with lower standards, and raise them as HP meets their own benchmarks. These things take a lot of time, and even more nuance.
The Pre3, Veer and Touchpad are all initial launches for HP - let them drag their feet a little, and then hold them to a higher standard for their next launch. Let them get it right. Yes, it's a rapidly changing and incredibly dynamic market... but put some faith in people who spend their WHOLE DAY, not just their lunch break, making this stuff happen. Nuance, nuance, nuance.
Or, just keep your standards high and buy the device that meets them. That's the great thing about being a consumer - you can switch whenever you want. You can always buy the Pre 4, 5, or 6 if and when HP catches up.
That's crazy talk...clearly one should just be patient or buy an unlocked, unsubsidized Pre 2 and swap a comm board (another reasonable response for the average consumer) or just take another spin on the Pre refurb roulette wheel (even better) or...
....you know, you could just sit there and be patient again.
They've missed the boat many times now, expectations were only set -by them-. Comments such as the infamous "within weeks", "get ready to get rid of your ipad's and iphones", "really cool devices soon" and "think beyond" set the tone for really inspirational hardware platforms. None of which are here, much less when they are here, "cutting edge". Check out the Samsung's Glaxay S series, wow, awesome screens at 4". The market is screaming for them to go right, they went left. Left behind. They need hardware to -inspire- software people. Pre3 isn't even Bluetooth 3.0. Wow.
What if the play on 24/7 on the pre3 poster is actually a release date? i'll take august 25th hahaha please and ty :P.......I WANT TO BELIEVEEEE
Good catch. :-)
Sounds plausible enough. And fits with the summer launch announcement.
Oh gosh that Pre3 ad is clever.
I can haz releese date?
(for those who don't immediately notice, 25 = 5^3 and 8 = 2^3)
Wow, must be some of that new math.
Apparently my understanding of the number 5 is all wrong. :-/
Your math sucks 5^3 is 125, not 25.
You guys clearly don't understand. 25/8 is an improper fraction, which is actually Three-and-one-eighth. Now, as a decimal, that is 3.125. Therefore, the new phones will be released at Three-O'clock, on the twelfth of May. It is SOOOOOOOOOO obvious.
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That's a great article, and well presented, IMO.
Seriously, thanks for taking the time to write it.
You're very welcome! {J}
FYI: It's not "Palm Smartphone Showcases". It should read "Handspring Smartphone Showcases". Most of the stuff shown in the showcases are prototypes of what you all know as Treo 180/270/300/600.
Well they had to show something, it's not like they can show new stuff that does not exist.... ;-)
A less nuanced view of the situation. Since HP announced it's new WebOS products, Moto, LG, Samsung and HTC have all released new smartphones. WP7 has been around less time than HP has owned Palm, and has phones on 3 major US carriers, and has doubled the size of the HP app catalog. Only one smartphone maker seems to be having any trouble getting products to market.
MS market capitalization is about 100x of Palms (not exaggerating) when it was bought by HP. And MS owns 90% of the worlds desktops, while Palm was a struggling has-been from the 90s. MS has more cash lying around than HP paid to buy Palm.
And MS didn't develop WP7 in 6 months. It was no doubt under construction for quite a while before it appeared.
And for all that finance and power WP7 seems to fare no better in the market than Palm did.
Just to put things in perspective.
If you prefer any of those smartphones by Moto, LG, Samsung or HTC - then buy all means go and buy that.
Fact: Palm didn't have enough resources and influence with the major players.
Fact: The transition after the buyout by HP no doubt cost some time for re-organisation, planning, personnel decisions, strategy evaluation, etc...
Fact: HP is interested in pushing a whole platform of mobile devices - including a Tablet - and integrating them with a range of services and appliances. All that needs design, development, evaluation, testing.
Fact: Launching through carriers takes negotiations and time for certification etc...
I assume HP is aware of the need and wants to re-launch webos properly. All that needs proper preparation. And doing all that is not a matter of a few weeks.
Again - if a few months are too much wait for you - just buy another phone that is available and you like. Does anybody really believe that Jobs had the idea for the Iphone/Ipad and then launched that device 6 months later?
There's a lot of silly assumptions about how the world works going around here.
HP doess make mistakes. Cancelling 2.x for the Pre, mentioning some kind of replacement goody and then not having anything concrete to announce was stupid. The whole Feb 9 event was over-hyped. I'm unhappy about dropping the gesture area from the TouchPad.
I want new devices and a sh*tload of new apps as much as the next precentral member - but it helps to have realistic expectations.
And the lack of information coupled with taking time to properly finish the new devices might well be a good sign if that ends up being preperations for a Big Bang Relaunch campaign.
Meanwhile I'm getting tired of all the whining and unfounded crazy assumptions here.
Just get an IPhone/Android/Blackberry/WP7 device already - if any of those satisfy your needs.
Yeah +1 here. The amount of effort to integrate Palm into HP whilst hitting the ground running on new devices must have been incredible, and I have to say they've done a great job imho.
This is just phase one for HP/Palm whose focus will be simply getting webOS 3 and the new hardware to market in a stable impressive manner.
The big leaps forward will come later when all those HP engineers who will now be working on webOS products start to get up to speed.
I'm in no doubt that Veer / Pre3 and TouchPad will be great but Pre4 and TouchPad2 etc will be simply sensational - and I'm convinced when the full webOS ecosystem starts to pan out we'll be amazed.
Great post btw - very jealous of you right now! :-)
They didn't want to invite Dieter or Derek, Palm was afraid they would leak things under NDA.
Actions are stronger than words HP.
I really hope the 25/8 in the pre 3 poster isn't a hint. August is waaaayyy too late for me to keep waiting around.
(unless you give me a refurbished pre minus to hold me over)
it's just a play on the phrase 24/7 (24 hours a day, seven day a week). they're saying that the Pre3 is more capable and making you feel like you have 25 hours a day and 8 days a week.
they're gonna license the Beatles' Eight days a week" song for release ;-)
So basically they deflected every question, gave you no new information, repeated the same old empty assurances, fed you lunch, glad-handed you and sent you on your way.
Reading your article reminds of the wimpy husband coming home to his wife explaining that he's still not getting the promotion he demanded but it's a good thing because his boss has great things in mind for him.
Pathetic.
Edited to add this before getting banned:
There's nuance and then there is self-delusion. This is a case of self-delusion.
Or maybe he signed an NDA and can't say some of the other things that he actually learned. :P
Why write this puff piece then? The only reason I can think of is to provide propaganda to keep the faithful waiting.
It's becoming increasingly clear that WebOS may have a new owner but it's the same rotting carrot being dangled in front of the donkeys.
If so then he should have politely declined to go visit.
Except that I wasn't invited; I *asked* to visit, and what you read is essentially all that we spoke about. As I wrote, no "sekrit" revelations, NDA'ed or otherwise. {Jonathan}
Let's say you manage a big tech company that needed an entry path into the exploding mobile market.
You pick up a small tech company with a promising product and some market share but short on resources.
You want to relaunch that product as part of a general integrated strategy. So you have the techs work on several improvements, tell marketing to prepare a great campaign and you jet around to manufacturers and carriers and business partners to make sure everything clicks together for the big relaunch some time in the summer.
So as not not to ruin that big relaunch campaign your marketing guys are preparing you get everybody and their sisters to sign NDAs, threatening a eternity in **** for any breaches in confidentiality.
But you allow your middle management to spill the beans as soon as a fan comes over for lunch or a frustrated forumite asks questions.
Stop with the whining folks.
We were told summer. It's obvious nobody is telling us anything solid before that relaunch.
Either wait for that - or go and buy something else now. It's an option. Make use if it or not. Your decisions. But please stop with the whining and complaining.
This is like kids that were told that they get presents on xmas but then keep asking what they'll get months before.
I understand the frustration. I'd like some infos too. But when it's clear that no infos will be coming in before the relaunch in summer than it's time to either decide to wait for that - or go elseehere.
I've been using an android phone since December. Android is not as nice as WebOS. When HP does put a phone, I'll be happy to switch back, so its not impatience for me. HP has plenty of market cap to compete with MS, its legit to wonder if by the time HP products arrive, developers will want to create apps for them with IOS, android and WP7 hogging the action. MS does seem to be hustling harder right now.
For those who always doubt here about HP's ability to push its products (smartphones/tablets)just re-read the following lines :
As Zilber put it, "we want to sell both to you [an enterprise customer] and your nine-year-old daughter." It is easier to sell the number of devices via bulk sales to a few big enterprise customers than to explain to many, many consumers one at a time why webOS is a better choice than the numerous devices running Android, iOS and operating systems.
So I say, grow up, don't whine here like a 9 year old. HP perfectly knows the game.
Ya should have visited Blubble! NanPlayer!
just curious; Are the HP palm employees using a webos device as part of their enterprise solution. Just makes sense to me if HP is trying to get the word out to all the other divisions of the company.
Yes.
As an original Pre owner, I certainly hope that HP introduces the PRE3 on Sprint. I am happy with my Pre and Sprint, but about time for an upgrade. Since the Palm/HP devices are well behind the IPhones and Andriods, I would certainly think that they would want to make it available to as many people as possible by having it on all the major cell companies.
up comes the old scratchy record: when (if ever) will they "free" the App catalog to the rest of the world (that bothers to get a Pre, despite it's lack of availability)? And will they do an actual "worldwide" release, not the fake/selected countries ****
I've got a Pre, but was recently provided a BB Bold from the company. The BB is a decent phone (especially the battery life), but I miss my Pre (especially Synergy).
Release the Pre3 with decent battery life (worldwide please, not in "selected countries"), and release the App catalog (PayPal, anyone?), and I'll make it my primary phone again.
If only.....
Nice write-up, thanks for taking the time! :)
You're very welcome. {Jonathan}
"Above all, my visit reminded me how unique Palm is among its competitors in its continuing commitment to its relationship with its users."
Really? Really?
I used to believe this too but with HP's breaking promises, caught with their pants down then promising to Make Thing Right but only delivering on the silence treatment to "Legacy Users" . It's been over two months without one detail despite saying "details coming in the coming weeks". At least HP could reassure us that things will be made right and update their obviously missed timeline. This "longtime user and fan" has not received an "immediate and enthusiastic" answer and is no longer enthusiastic about Palm.
I need an app created for me if possible.
I'm an insurance agent and I have a great idea as far as functionality and all, but I have never developed an app before, and this one has to work haha.
Wasn't sure how to go about it, so I figured I would go to where I know best. If anyone is interested please reply to this message or email me @ jeffrey3605@hotmail.com. You will obviously be compensated for your help.
Thank you
As blackberry loses it's luster and android trys to find a bit of consistency it would be nice for hp/palm to attempt to lure consumers into a webos experience. I truly believe this has been a mismanagement of epic proportions.
Actually, I agree with the "Stop Whining" crowd. How many times does one have to get punched in the face before they learn to duck? This pattern of no info/info then delay/delayed release and underwhelming reception has been in effect since day one, and it has continued well into HP's tenure at the head.
If you don't like it, you don't have to leave, but I don't see how anyone would expect anything different from WebOS at this point, regardless of who is paying the bills.
I didn't like it. I got what worked for me NOW. Don't wait. Do the same for you. This behavior from HP will not change.
HPalm is talking about the cloud etal... Yep, they have their heads in the cloud.... or somewhere in a place w.o. sunshine...
Frankly the level of communication from HPalm is textbook **** up. Leo's India gaffe. Smarmy Rooby's "in the coming months". The "we'll make it up to you" bs.... For that is no excuse.
It by now has become entertaining. After all it's just a smart phone and there are quite a few of those on the market.
If we get rid of whiners, and all the repls to whiners, I could read this blog in 2-3 minutes a day vs. 15 minutes trying to read through whiner comments.
Palm can get rid of the whining when they quit with the lying and make things right. If palm keeps their promises and makes things right I'm prepared to forgive them... until then Palm needs to hear from us.
I was with the stop whining crowd but not anymore. HP and the no news, no information thing is getting old. I have given up on WebOs for now. I am going to get a Nexus S to hold me over for awhile. I will keep my eye on HP and see what they have in store for the future and if I like what I see, I will come back to WebOs. I hope HP gets it together sooner than later.
PS. I really like the WebOs community and how everyone helps out with a WebOs device. Thanks everyone :)
Check out the Galaxy S series. WOW on the screen! AMOLED is simply BRILLIANT! and the 4" size screen is purely perfect size.
No revelations, but encouraging words:
http://money.cnn.com/video/technology/2011/04/13/ctd_hp_ceo_apotheker_ta...
HP's bread and butter is the enterprise, not consumer space. WebOS is a great solution as the next BB offering to the enterprise... if some consumers enjoy this stuff, then great but based on everything I read on HP's plans tells me the focus is on them signing some large enterprise deals around the WebOS ecosystem.
As a test: When this stuff is launched and a few monthes in the market, when you run into a TouchPad, Veer or Pre3 ask the person if the device is for business or pleasure..meaning did they buy it or did their company issue it to you.
My guess is at least 8 - 2 these were issued by compaines to thier employees. As an HP Stockholder, I say who cares as long as it makes a mark and is a success - consumer or businees; or both.
I'm not saying the consumer space isn't something they think about, plan to market to and hope to make some in roads, but profits will come from the enterprise. Take HP itself - can you image their cell phone bill to Sprint, ATT, Virzone, and the AP/EMEA carries each month. HUGE $$$. Now, if companies like HP are committed to WebOS hardware and the ecosystem, this is massive for HP.
This is a great opprotunity into the SMB market space - a small company can leverage HP's ecosystem (cloud or whatever) to host their employees data, securely. Email, docs, intranet, VPN, you name it.
just my 2 cents