New Amazon Kindle Fire brings TouchPad-like pricing to Android world 108
Today is a momentus day for the tablet world, or so say many analysts, bloggers and techies out there. Amazon has announced the soon-to-be-released Amazon Kindle Fire, an Android-powered tablet that is sure to beat out nearly every device that is not called an iPad. Not because it has a huge screen (it's only 7 inches), or a lot of on-device storage (a measly 8 GB). No, the Amazon Kindle Fire will be popular because of its entry price of $199.
Don't get me wrong, the device looks like it will be a nice one. It weighs 14.6 ounces and sports a 1024x600, 7 inch IPS display. The 1 Ghz dual-core processor and the changes that Amazon has made to the Android operating system (including the new Silk browser) are sure to turn a few heads as well, but it will still be that $199 pricetag that reels in most customers (not to mention the massive amount of digital content that Amazon can offer to Kindle Fire owners). It's not only cheaper than other Android tablets, but even the big competitor to the Kindle; Barnes & Noble's Nook Color ($249).
Sadly, it's another kick to the groin of the webOS Nation as Amazon looks to take over that #2 spot in the tablet world on November 15th, even as we learn the details of the never-to-be-released 7 inch webOS tablet; the TouchPad Go. Has Amazon learned from HP's ways by releasing a device for less than $200? It sure seems that way, and even though the Amazon Kindle Fire isn't the highest quality tablet to be released this year, the lines of people to buy the new device by this top-tier company may easily resemble those created by the TouchPad fire-sale pricing.
A successful launch of the Kindle Fire could do more than just show the world that tablets don't have to be expensive; maybe it will be enough to show HP that there is room for the very 7-inch webOS tablet we saw yesterday. The new Kindle might do well because of the content and pricetag, but a TouchPad Go would easily come out on top with the superior operating system, cameras on the front and back of the device, a 4:3 aspect ratio screen that's 1024x768 (better for viewing videos and playing games), 3G radio and a dozen other features - as long as it was priced in a similar fashion.
While the world clamors at this new, inexpensive Android tablet by Amazon, HP needs to listen closely. If they do listen and change their decision, they might hear the sounds of cash flowing back into their bank accounts, rather than rushing out so quickly.
Source: AndroidCentral
108 Comments
Um, how is a 4:3 screen better for videos if most (at least recent) content is 16:9?
It's the length of the screen I was commenting on. A screen as long as the Kindle Fire is awkward to watch movies on.
A long screen is awkward to watch 16:9 widescreen movies on?
No, Tim.
Reread the original comment. Video content is now almost universally oriented at 16:9 aspect ratio for HD. A 4:3 screen like Touchpad or iPad will always be lacking.
Opinions. That was mine.
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of good things about a 4:3 screen but picking videos as an example? Most new content is of a 16:9 format and so is displayed with black bars on a 4:3 screen. Why would that ever be better than having no black bars? Fair enough that's your opinion but it took me by surprise! Personally, I hate those pesky black bars!
I'd have highlighted web browsing and document viewing/editing as being the things a 4:3 is "better for", certainly not video.
I agree with Tim. Though you give up screen space watching 16 X 9 on a Touchpad or Ipad, I simply find the size more awkward for holding and watching on the Tab 10.1.
It was unexpected, but widescreen tablets simply haven't impressed me for form factor.
Same for widescreen computer monitors, unless they are big or a second monitor vertical, widescreen sucks. I had a 19inch widescreeen HD monitor, went back to an old 17inch 4:3 lcd...haven't looked back.
17inch.....FTLOG! You are not kidding with OldSkool.
Media consumption is taken care of by the HTPC hooked up to 2 separate big screen HDTVs and surround sound.
The office and office computer are for basic computing needs, no need for anything bigger than maybe 19-20inch max. Don't even have external speakers hooked to it, just use the lil ones built into the monitor for audio.
beter for reading books on.
Well, yes, except HP doesn't have a business model where they can make money on a $200 device. This is the Gillette shaver/razor model at work (sell shavers at a loss, make money on the razors). For Amazon, the tablet is subsidized so they can make money on the books, music, videos.
This business model is a problem for every other device manufacturer too. Most Android tablet vendors are currently trying to make money on the devices themselves and can't subsidize the up-front device purchase cost. This is partly why we saw a bust in e-reader devices (Amazon/Barnes&Noble and Sony are really the only remaining ones - all subsidized by ebook sales).
Amazon has positioned themselves very well. Now, if only Amazon would license or buy webOS... :)
Why would Amazon buy WebOS? They don't want you multitasking and getting a bunch of notifications. They don't want you "just typing" for contacts or to start a Facebook post.
They want you reading, watching, playing or buying. The Fire is proof positive that WebOS would be an ABYSMAL purchase for Amazon's intentions.
Well, if Amazon bought webOS, they would have full control over the ecosystem they are developing. Right now, they have to go through Google for Android. And Google might not be as friendly to their licensees going forward (Google now has an inherent conflict of interest since Google owns Motorola).
Besides, if you are going to get notified while using an Amazon device and viewing their content, don't you want unobtrusive notifications...? :)
At this point, it's unlikely given the commitment Amazon has already made to Android. It would cost a lot and not add much value for them. If Amazon had bought Palm instead of HP last year, it might have made sense.
In any case, Amazon has a business model that is going to make it tough on their competitors. It's also a business model where they could support their own mobile OS if they felt that was an advantage for them (they already are, in a way, when you consider the heavily skinned version of Android they are using).
...it is not only heavily-skinned, it is forked branch AFAIK, so it means they ARE controlling their system, and ARE dealing with underlying OS the way they want, and not "through Google"
Interesting though, rumor is they are actually considering it: http://venturebeat.com/2011/09/29/amazon-buy-palm/
How much does a tablet device like this cost to build? Does Amazon get a cut of the app sales as well?
Face Book should take on webOS next. I never thought I'd consider buying into anything FB branded, but now they have partnerships with major players in music and video, there's no doubt support for such services would become available to webOS.
As for Amazon... Well, its new line of Kindles are certainly worth considering for e-book fans. Seeing as how the majority of consumers who own tablets are merely media consumers (myself included), I say they're picking up where HP left off - to take on the #2 position in tablet popularity. The main difference being that HP didn't know who to market to. Amazon seems to be going full steam ahead with ebooks and is in a great position to expand to music and videos too.
Are people really excited about the Kindle Fire? I checked out the video placed online by Engadget - http://www.viddler.com/explore/engadget/videos/3290/ , but missing many things I just come to expect in a tablet.
Few things they did get right: pricing, understanding their market/competition, and the Amazon Video Store w/Prime Member direct access.
I guess if that is all you need, it is perfect and will sell like hotcakes. Sorli...
Why would Amazon buy WebOS? They don't want you multitasking and getting a bunch of notifications. They don't want you "just typing" for contacts or to start a Facebook post.
They want you reading, watching, playing or buying. The Fire is proof positive that WebOS would be an ABYSMAL purchase for Amazon's intentions.
Yet another possibility to re-emerge squandered by indecision and inaction in HP land. They still can (theoretically) but the longer they dink around, the more expensive such a proposition becomes.
BTW, have a Nook for the missus, and it would never do for me. so there is still a market for a beefier, but sub $400 tablet... not that HP will have a clue on how to capitalize on it before an Android hardware manufacturer grabs that ground.
Prediction - Ms. Meg will wait until it's too late to do anything, and then sadly proclaim about how they planned to revive the webOS platform but regrettably ran out of time. That way she can blame Leo while still sticking to his (their) plan.
There's no opportunity here for HP.
Jeff Bezos said it himself....Kindle Fire is a SERVICE, not a tablet.
WebOS is just a UI. It doesn't lead to anything else. There's no backend money to be made. HP just rebrands the "HP Movie Store" from RoxioNow. Kindle is the eReader. The magazines are from Time. The music.....well, you get the idea.
HP would just go more into debt on WebOS.
Jerrydan, you are such an ill-informed person! Even if you state something that is true sometimes by accident, it is always with the flawed logic/reasonings, that would be kind of funny if not so boring already.
webOS is NOT "just UI", but why am I replying to you, you arrogance is impenetrable for any reasoning.
Actually he makes much more sense than you do.
...give him a kiss!
Nice ad hominem attack.
Actually...no, it's a mediocre one.
...no, it is just summarizing the FACTS about your ill-informed postings, spotted with flawed reasoning and "logic", being all over the place.
Your arguements are so poorly reasoned and annoying at this point that they don't merit a serious response. You think like an HP board member.
Thanks for the serious response.
You're right - there's more to webOS than just UI. There's the dog slow underpinnings, the deficient SDK, the nonexistent ecosystem...
"There's the dog slow underpinnings,"
...but sure you are not talking about Pre-, overclocked to 1GHz, with Compcache enabled? This thing was flying, until it fell apart in my hands
So, surely you arenot even talking about thelittle pointless Veer, nor the never-to-be released Pre 3? So, what are you talking about????
"... the deficient SDK, the nonexistent ecosystem..."
..nothing that could not have been fixed, if committed to, and managed & focused properly. Not an OS fault nor inherent flaw by any means.
Yes, that's a big deal these days. What does the "back end" provide to the user? That's one reason I think Android is doing well--Google has a lot of quality apps like Google Maps, voice to text, etc. . . and they all add a lot of value to the overall user experience.
If Amazon & Google really joined forces for a tablet & phone it would be very difficult too surpass their combined services.
No, there isn't now. But Had they taken the lower priced tablet mantle a while ago, they could easily have sold 2 to 3 million Touchpads in the 3 months of what would have been it's life. Not iPad buyers, these buyers are coming off the sidelines and would not buy ANY tablet for $499
And yes they would have had to take a loss to gain marketshare.It's an investment they were not willing to make. And before I hear someone tell me that this was not a viable business plan, how much have they lost in:
1) stock value,
2) their 1 Billion dollar Palm investment, or
3) the value of the PSG group if sold without a viable product in the all important tablet category.
If a company which is touting it's future as a cloud and services company cannot figure out how to make money by bundling its tablet with services to consumers - they are in deeper doo-doo than anyone can imagine.
This is even more so because of not having the vision to build a compelling tablet service bundle to businesses... when you are the numero UNO PC maker in the world.
Especially when they beat Amazon to the market.
C-Note, remember you are arguing with jerrydan here, a guy who sees a deep sense in Microsoft taking a huge hit NOW on WM7, to recover it IN THE LONG RUN on license fees, but who in the same post ridicules the same strategy, if came from HP/webOS camp, as ridiculous financial black hole.
Logic is just not his strongest point.
HP isn't exactly Microsoft. Apparently logic isn't your strong point either..
Strategy is a strategy, it is either viable long term, or not, given same/similar product/market. Actually, it would make much more sense for HP long term, than for MS, given their shift to cloud services AND enterprise hardware AND software.
Logic is logic. Confusing logic with assumptions, what companies are capable of, like you did in your post just above, well, kinda makes me feel better equipped in this discussion, than you are.
Kindly,
PS. do not forget to give a kiss to jerrydan!
Microsoft has Zune Music & Video, SkyDrive, and Xbox, Kindle, and Office.
You think them eating a few billion on phones now to seed additional users for these services for years to come is bad news?
Wow.....
"(...)eating a few billion on phones now to seed additional users for these services for years to come is bad news?"
No dude, when I said that? What a classy tactics, to put some ridiculously stupid statements into someone's mouth, as an argument, when you own arguments are inconsistent and flawed, and you just have been proved this...
Actually, what I think about MS position, it is a matter of their survival rather than anything else, given the long term trends of IT "going mobile", far more than "opportunities to chump some more users" for their services. And they are quite late to the party, too.
But YOU think, and have posted it here ad nauseam, that the same long term strategy would be a disaster for HP & webOS, don't you? Just because.
Now, sync these two!
More gibberish.
Microsoft actually IS a services/software company. Hence THEIR strategy makes sense.
HP is NOT, so seeding the market with hardware sold at cost or a loss DOES NOT make sense.
Thanks.
nonono, Microsoft is not service/software company, it is rather software first/service (distant) second company, quite the opposite to HP (with regards to HP's non-hardware side), and unsurprisingly, quite the opposite to what you are saying. Microsoft is trying very hard to reposition themselves as service first, software second company for years, but still they haven't, as of yet.
...so, who is constantly talking gibberish?
Why are you doing this to yourself, man. There are some health&safety rules around, and one of the most important of them is you do not try and kick a horse harder, if get kicked by it, you just stand no chance in this game. Same here. Just move on.
LOLOL.
yes, indeed: "my name is jerrydan and my arguments are iron"
Q.E.D. Thank you.
And with that, you lose any credibility you had.
Says who? Just to let you know, I am a professional developer, with about 15 years of professional experience, working with MS enterprise technologies ever since, holding MS Certified Solution Developer title (achieved twice), MS Certified DBA, working for MS Gold Certified Partner in software, having close working/personal relationships with quite a few folks in Microsoft, at different levels. So I could argue my point with you further, but it is kinda pointless. You know everything better, just because, don't you?
...I don't think HP can make money on ANY webOS device anytime soon, even if they push the brakes on the recent decisions right through the floor, and started pedaling back faster than Fred Flinstone, so these points in the article are a bit silly. ATM, it would require Niagara of founds pumped into LONG TERM strategy for webOS to survive/revive. True, there are significant numbers of TP users now, all of them scratching their heads why the heck HP has decided to discontinue their fantastic new TouchPAds, which are in so many ways nicer then their family&friends iPAds, but the damage is done, and there's NO single thing in the world that could reverse it quickly.
Even if these Opals were selling like hot cakes, even with some hypothetical profit per unit (two things that would not happened, already), the amount of money needed to reverse all these recent blunders would be enormous, and would eat away ANY possible/impossible profits made on Opals.
It is game over for webOS, sadly, but there's preciously little that anybody on this planet (and surroundings) can do about it - and much less so, that can be done quickly & short-term. Long term strategy would be needed, and starting from the scratch, small.
Thus the best option would be to someone else to take it over, start small, but actually demonstrating willingness and competence about what they are doing.
And still, they would need to compete with more & more solidified mobile market, with Android winning by a landslide everywhere.
Unrealistic, in short
Well said!
The market is going to have a hard time supporting more than 3 OSes. Web OS has to have at minimum the same apps + new & cool to force competition.
webOS hardware would mean years of financial losses for HP. Its well-known that the TP hardware is costing $300 just to manufacture. Where is this cash flow going to come from? You are in denial about the business prospects of webOS hardware. Isnt going to happen.
JR sits on the Amazon BOD.. he DEFINTELY knew about this coming.
Talk about conflict of interest.
It sure might have influenced HP's decision that the TP would not be competitive going forward. This may explain why HP cancelled webOS hardware - they knew that's none of their tablets would be able to compete with a subsidized Amazon tablet at such a low price point..
If the browser is as fast as it appears to be in their demos. . . that will be a big win.
The UI actually looks well designed especially for non-techy users, and they have a well bundled ecosystem for users. There's a lot to like about this tablet.
Precentral, you might want to fix the comment layout--the overflow is going under the right column.
What browser are you using? Not seeing that on any of my devices.
Tim, I have noticed this sometimes (Chrome), but for me F5 sorts it out.
it's a crippled device. no camera, barely any memory, no mics, no hdmi out i don't think. Can you install apps on this? couldn't find an answer to that. and with only like 8 gigs you aren't talking a ton of storage. it's like every other kindle. it's a vehicle for consuming books. it will sell to people that want just ebook readers but without more it's not gonna kill the ipad. but bet it will drop the ipad price a hundred bucks which will in turn torch all the other real tablets. But i wouldn't group this with the big guys since it can't make presentations and such with it.
Agreed. Definitely NOT a Apples to Oranges comparison.
...why do you think Amazon has their own AppStore, if not for the new Kindle?
don't know. but can you install android apps on this device with out being some hacker? I don't know. Honest question. Plus at only 8 gigs of storage you can't exactly hold a ton of media and apps at least not for long. I merely think that, well i'll put it this way. The ipad will continue to have mass appeal because it can do so much and has the added factor of lots of apps, accessories, and it just works. Plus it looks good. This i think will appeal to those that want an ereader first and are truly reluctant to spend tons on a tablet. That don't want to consume media, or watch netflix, or play infinity blade, or want to play guitar through garage band, or video conference or use it in a business setting like checking backroom stock or tracking sales. Like the HP touchpad just had a remote desktop app posted on the front page of precentral. If, and i still don't know if it can run apps, if it can't then you're not gonna get that sort of customer with this. Now maybe you can hack it like other ereaders but that's a tiny subset of the population that's gonna want to do that.
So i don't remotely see this as a kick in the balls to TP or Ipad. Because the TP was lining up against the ipad not nooks and kindle. It only got close when they sacked it and slashed it's price to 99 bucks. but that's not sustainable.
updates: i think it does run apps cause in the picture i see apps in the top bar plus i read they demoed a game. so that's a good selling point for a kindle. noticed it's only 7 inches though. guess that's a personal thing.
it is always a good thing to check the thing that you are posting about.
You've just described a touchpad...that offers no content. Crippled device, barely any memory, no hdmi out, can't install apps because noone makes them, has the worst browser created, etc.
...here we go again, checkmate and his one-sentence, in-depth "analysis"
When you're spot on like he is, brevity only sharpens your point.
Indeed.
pretty much. And nobody bought that outside of the webos community and they were buying 5 at a time. And only after the price got slashed. Not exactly a recipe for success. Amazon's and the kindle is a diffent model. They can make money off books. They are in a diffent position then HP. HP's PsG had been in trouble from before they bought palm. Palm was supposed to help stop that. But HP needed a profitable device. But I've never made the argument that the Touchpad as it was configured, it's hardware, with a sluggish webos, and with the poor apps support of webos was a device that would sell well.
And exactly how do you think they met the $199 price point?
Let's be VERY clear here -- it was not Amazon who said this would be an iPad killer, that was the pundits who WANT there to be an iPad killer.
The only other way you can make a better tablet and sell it cheaper is to purchase a company for $1.2B, wait 8 months announce wonderful new hardware, wait another 6 months to release said hardware at over inflated prices and limited functionality, wait three weeks until it is not selling well, kill the product, and then flush your remaining inventory at fire sale prices taken a HUGE loss on each an every one of them.
I disagree. It will have apps. I also natively supports downloaded video and video over amazon video / prime video. It'll consume multimedia as well as any other tablet, seeing that it has a dual-core processor. It doesn't make sense to buy this only for books. That's what e-ink devices are for.
8gb isn't a lot and there may be no camera and mic, but let's remember it's retails at $199. That's not a firesale price. If you want the extra features, there are more expensive tablets at $300+. It's not supposed to compete with the iPad or high-end tablets. It competes with the Nook color and other 7" tablets. For a retail price of $199 I can't think of anything better.
As far as competing with the TP, let's keep in mind that neither have HDMI. This will eventually have a far better eco-system for apps and multimedia (probably the most important), and it retails for less than half of what TP did. With that said, the TP does have a 10" screen, camera, mic, etc. The TP was designed to compete with Android tablets and the iPad within the $400-600 range. Not exactly easy to compare two tablets meant for two different target audiences.
I think this article and the assumptions that Amazon are going to win here are a little premature. Leo had the same lofty aspirations when the Touchpad was launched only to kill is 49 DAYS LATER.
Its a watered down version of Android competing with the Nook color which at last gasp was not flying off the shelves.
The real key here is HP got out of the hardware biz, now do something with the software! Launching tablets with less features (Hulu/Netflix, Banking Apps anyone?) is like trying to sell a Kia compact at BMW prices. Let's face it, if it weren't for the fact it was $99 or $149, most people would be saving for an iPad this holiday.
No one is going to kill Apple so stop trying. Microsoft had the best formula with XBox 360 where they were willing to take the hit on hardware to penetrate the market. Apple is making mores of a killing on Apps than the Hardware. $200 or not, this will be a dud as most consumers will be rushing out this season to buy iPhone 5's and iPad 2's. After that the remaining guys will fight for the scraps.
You should do some simple research before making the assertion that Apple makes more from the App Store than the hardware. Apple makes a killing on the hardware and a little bit on the App Store.
Weavesome, i'm making an impulse response to a comments board article not preparing for a debate. My premise in that statement is if it costs $325.60 in components (SOURCE: businessinsider.com)to make an iPad 2 and they sell for $499 retail, thats not a ton of profit when you factor in R&D, Marketing and OpEx.
Selling over a billion apps and 10 billion songs at an average profit of even $.30 is a huge profit with little operational costs. The developers and musicians are doing the majority of the work and the infrastructure has been up and running for 5 years.
Sadly, no. Keep in mind Apple just paid TWO billion dollars CUMULATIVE to developers for app sales as of 6 months ago. So Apple's gross revenue for the three years they have run the store thus far is $850 million. The operational costs for servers is not "little" nor is staffing, nor are credit card fees on EACH transaction and network fees. They kept maybe HALF of that after all was said and done.
Less than half a billion. BTW, it costs them almost a billion to run it each year (http://www.asymco.com/2010/09/09/it-takes-nearly-1-billionyr-to-run-itunes/)
YET, they pull down billionS (plural) in pure profit every QUARTER. SEVEN billion last quarter, alone. So, the app store revenue contributes comparatively little to their war chest, and the MP3 revenue is just enough to put them in the black for a few hundred million each year.
Those billions each quarter of profits? HARDWARE, baby.
So Microsoft should be in the game cause of their software and Apple because of their hardware, but HP, which is a hardware company that wants to become a software company, shouldn't have a tablet for either reason?
A little knowledge about the industry combined with very poor reasoning skills and you get the above analysis.
Keep praising the actions of the HP board, now universally derided as the dumbest board of directors on earth.
Wrong reply, bro. Didn't mention Microsoft or the HP board at all.
OMG, haven't you? Haven't you praised HP's decision as such a smart thing to shut webOS down, haven't you praised Microsoft for "planning for long run"?
My goodness, that is just unbelievable :). Now you are adding poor memory to poor reasoning? Just scroll up two pages, and read again what you have posted :).
You are such a funny guy, contradicting yourself every second post, sometimes in the same post, yet keep posting, keep posting!
But aren't there huge costs to maintaining servers, developing new APIs, app reviewers, a good portion of the marketing, etc. that goes into operating an App Store? All of that has to come out of Apple's 30% cut, no?
I'm not sure which the make more money profits on, but I've read somewhere that at least iTunes is operated at a loss or just at cost.
"Let's face it, if it weren't for the fact it was $99 or $149, most people would be saving for an iPad this holiday."
That's exactly my point. This tablet is going for $199 (and the original Kindle is now $79). As others have said, this is in "Impulse Purchase" range for many users. They don't need to kill Apple, they can reach the #2 spot and do just fine.
I think the 12-25 demographic will go for iPads first.
"Everyone" will buy iP5, you say??? tough call, given that Android smartphones have already far outsell iP4, and the market segment increase in Android land only accelerates... iP5 will probably make a big dent in that trend (momentarily, after the release), but long term - sorry, Apple, nice & shiny package and "design", smooth transitions etc. will only get you so far, especially that we are already in the hardware realm, that basically every high-end smartphone is "smooth" in operation, and functionally, Android can do SO much more, and is SO much more attractiuve to any creative technology tinkerers/developers.. It can only go faster from that point.
It will be just like in PC world: Apple, high margin niche PC/laptops, Windows, the vast majority. Just substitute Windows with Android for mobile, in a year's time.
I think with all 3 major US vendors having the iPhone 5 (ATT, Sprint & Verizon) you will see a tremendous uptick in iPhone 5 adoption. Android caught up due to lack of vendors (its why I have a Droid 2 from Verizon) but if you multiply AT&T's iphone user base x 3 the numbers would be different. Its why the iPad 2 is dwarfing the Android tablets IMHO.
I think Windows 8 personally will beat them all in the long run, but for now Apple will remain king for a long time.
well, Apple might eventually REGAIN the crown, because they have been dethroned already, and by a landslide. Recent market researches shows ~28% iPhone, ~50ish% Android, ~10% "others" in smartphone wars. So they cannot "remain" a king, if already dethroned and selling half as many iDevices as there are Androids sold.
I agree that iP5 availability on all carriers will make a change, but to a what degree - I doubt that it will reverse the trends/momentum.
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Its a watered down version of Android competing with the Nook color which at last gasp was not flying off the shelves.
****
Not sure what happened to my reply, or how just the text I quoted ended up here.
As of March 2011, Barnes & Noble had sold 3 million Nook Colors, and were manufacturing another 18,000 per day. That means they could easily have doubled that number by now, and that also puts them well ahead of the TouchPad in sales, even before factoring in the last six months of sales. So, you're incorrect about it not selling.
Second, Amazon was very smart about how they did this: well before releasing their own Android tablet, they built their own app market, got traction in the Android community with it, released their Instant Video, Cloud Music and, of course, the Kindle bookstore itself.
Amazon, then, may well be in the best position to challenge Apple: like Apple, they've got a nice vertically-integrated market. Unlike HP, though, they've got a solid, profitable market in place, and are now releasing a tablet for it. And, unlike Apple, they're releasing low-cost hardware (like their Kindles) and depending upon their content to provide their profit. That's worked out fine for them so far, and they stand a good chance of that continuing to be the case for them.
Attended a presentation from B&N (part of a the Appcelerator CODESTRONG conference) and according to them, the Nook/Nook Color is doing pretty well with the female demographic.
I think its 2 different markets, where the Nook is an E-Reader with Extras, while the Touchpad and iPads are true Tablets.
I agree with you that they have a nice niche market but their competitor is B&N not Apple.
3 million versus 8% of all American households having iPads (over 30 million) is chump change.
I don't think Amazon is trying to compete with the iPad. It'd be pointless. They are aiming for the cheaper tablet market to capitalize on people who want a cheap-but-good tablet that works really well at consuming content. They'll make their money by getting people to buy music, videos, and amazon prime subscriptions.
I think there is a big market for a good $200 tablet. I doubt they will take any customers away from the people who want to spend $500 on an iPad, but they will make sales to people who are willing to spend $200 who otherwise would not buy a tablet. The Kindle Fire, like the Nook Color, is really for a different market. Nook color sales, to my knowledge, are selling just fine. Even if the Fire sold only as much as the Nook it would be a successful product. Amazon has a lot of marketing power though, something that will likely put the Fire and it's price point in front of a lot of people. Two things that most tablets lack.
I don't think it's unreasonable to think that the tablet will not sell well. It may have a little catchup to do with Apps, but having a strong multimedia ecosystem, decent hardware, and great price make it a compelling to choice to many.
The problem with the Touchpad is that it was the same price as the iPad but with a weak ecosystem, it was buggy/sluggish (at first), and bulky. Other than those of us who love webOS there was little or no reason to pick it over an iPad at the same price. A great and innovative operating system isn't enough.
We shall see though.
But it still brings... Android. Meh. Case closed. Makes me want a TouchPad Go even more.
New low end Kindle looks like a giant Palm Pilot. amirite?
For the average consumer Amazon's Fire does enough, well enough, at a very affordable price. That's enough to stomp out most of the competition. The content Amazon provides will stomp out the rest.
As much as I love my TP and WebOS (and I sure as heck do) it's easy to see that I'm part of a very niche market as is every other TP owner.
Perhaps the only way to compete with the Fire and the Ipad is to design the TP to do something the other two can't. HP & WebOS would have to severely out-innovate the other two while making the TP more affordable than the Ipad and higher end than the Fire.
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Has Amazon learned from the HP way of releasing a device for less than $200?
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LOL. I thought HP "released" devices at much higher prices and were forced to slash prices (multiple times) due to...uhm..."lower than expected sales".
Seems p|c loves reporting a version of history that is is often very different from...well...from history.
Sorry taharka, I thought you were clever enough that I didn't need to re-hash all of the details of HP's asinine decisions all over again. I guess I was wrong, but I fixed it for you anyway.
No need to re-hash them, simply not mis-representing them will do just fine.
Exactly. Tim, do you really think Amazon was set to sell this for $300-400 (when they sell countless Honeycomb tablets in that range already), then decided to eat $100-200 because people are buying firesale Touchpads off eBay?
This device was designed from the ground up to meet the price point and content functionality we see today.
We live in a strange world where webOS, after two attempts, did not succeed on its own but it is somehow given lots of credit for any "right move" made by a competitor. Not even M. Night Shyamalan could come up with such fascinating stuff.
"We live in a strange world where webOS, after two attempts, did not succeed on its own"
Yes, we live in a strange world, where technology NEVER, EVER succeeds ON ITS OWN, I am extremely happy the information is finally sinking in, for few of us.
Thus, it is NOT webOS, that failed, indeed, it is the companies who were pushing it through in the marketplace, who failed twice, and can we finally settle to the conclusion, that mismanagement under HP's banner, non-existing vision in HP's upper echelons, and lack of commitment, is what have REALLY failed here and sealed webOS' fate (long before 18th of Aug), and be over with this ridiculous "webOS is the worst thing that has ever happened to humanity" nonsense?
Thank you very much, taharka, jerydan, chekmate; sirs.
I think that this announcement from Amazon should have Samsung and others reconsidering buying webOS, with the customizations I think Amazon would not benifit from buying webOS but others would because Amazon is selling low because they make money on the content just like Sony took a loss on the PS3 when it started shipping because the money is in the content. HTC, Samsung, etc dont have the app stores or books, or movies, that Amazon, Apple, and HP (Kinda) have they cant lower the costs and make it up selling Android Apps unless we want umpteen versions of the Android market out there but if they bought webOS they could make money from webOS apps, and start aquiring other content. I have a Touchpad and I have an iPad and you can be sure I will have the Kindle Fire (I own the Kindle Keyboard too.). This is a game changer that currently HTC and Samsung cant currently keep up with.
Samsung is evidently going a completely different route. Engadget is reporting that Samsung and Intel are going to be collaborating on Tizen OS, a Linux-based mobile OS, and that MeeGo is being rolled into Tizen. Samsung has also signed a patent-licensing agreement with Microsoft.
Yep. Also, according to ThisIsMyNext...
"The initial release of Tizen is targeted for Q1 2012, with first devices hitting the market mid year."
At this point my only hope is that the other os's simply copy what we love most about WebOS. I think that this will take A LOT less time (months instead of years) than waiting around for HP or whoever to restart/reimagine the product lines.
Has Amazon learned from HP's ways by releasing a device for less than $200?
Yeah, except HP didn't release a device for less than $200. They released a last generation device priced at $499 (same as the market-leading, this-generation device). When that brilliant strategy didn't work, they switched to fire-sale pricing below $200 ($99 and $149).
THIS
If HP want to sit back and enjoy the success that Amazon will no doubt have with their media consumption device then that is just a waste of money in addition to all the other decisions that have been made so far
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However any interesting track is also the (old Meego) Tizen project with Samsung on board too http://www.tizen.org/ 'application programming interfaces are based on HTML5 and other web standards' sounds a lot like WebOS to me, guys just give WebOS a good home and take over from where HP don't want to go
Given Amazon makes money on the service aspect of the kindle fire and loses money on hardware, they should release the OS for the touchpad and convert the million touchpad users to Amazon service users. Sounds like a free install base to me.
I, for one, am looking for a new OS to put on my touchpad given the impending death of WebOS (which couldn't have been more disappointing).
Superior operating system? lmao. HP can't even fix the bugs that existed since 2 years ago.
Amen!
You have to let the faithful believe there's a misunderstood genius thing going on here. At a time when folks are still in denial about WebOS being dead, pointing out just how poorly coded and inefficient the OS actually was could kill them.
guys, you have so clearly never worked for big technology companies, and are so preciously clueless as to how bad management and lack of mamagement focus impacts product deadlines, priorites, quality, people's morale, and everything else, really...
there's no way hp can create the tp go with such high specs and offer it at such a low price. that's completely wishful thinking based on people who purchased a bargained off system that doesn't even cover cost. amazon has the ecosystem to develop the fire, despite the low specs of the tablet. and because they do, they can offer it at a lower price. it would cost hp and other companies too much to develop something similar. hence the decision to drop out of the tablet market. too much r&d, not enough market share. no reason to continue. it's only after the fire sale that people started to rave about the hp tp and wish for it to remain...my two cents.
If anyone has been paying attention to my little rants in these comment sections, you know I've been rooting for HP to forge ahead with the TouchPad Go and Pre3. Now I'm starting to see why they won't and shouldn't. In fact I think I'm finally starting to get an understanding of why HP pulled the plug. They saw the handwriting on the wall. I think HP really only needed to see 2 things to realize they had a really, really tough road ahead trying to sell webOS end-user tablet devices:
1. Windows 8.
2. Amazon Fire.
That's it. That's what killed webOS. Windows 8 takes all the business users, Amazon Fire takes all the price conscious users, Apple continues to take the premium-price paying users, and then the other Android tablets nibble at what's left. No market for webOS. Sorry. They tried, perhaps not hard enough for our liking, but they knew what we didn't yet, or at least put 2+2 together before we did.
Well said. I like WebOS but I think that HP made the first mistake buying Palm, then secondly releasing dated hardware.
Should have been working with MS to get Windows 8 on an HP tablet
Great post. You nailed it. Though i would take issue with your last sentence.
http://www.journalofaccountancy.com/Issues/2011/Oct/20114361.htm
Look at this link if you don't really believe. A (well executed) windows 8 tablet would address every con listed while providing all the benefits as to why people want tablets in the business world.
For all those consumers at home who try to claim ipads replaced their laptops, a windows 8 tablet really would. And still provide the reasons they really own ipads.
For those who just want a low price, content consumption device, there's the Kindle Fire.
Where would webOS fit in here? Even if HP invested billions trying to find core services to leverage, it's way too risky for them. HP needs to remember what they do best and get back on track.
Is Apple in trouble? Not really. Their goal is profit margin. Not to be the market share leader. Apple values their premium brand and it's rare to see a premium brand lead any market in terms of units sold. Apple will continue to focus on branding, marketing, slick hardware, ecosystem, experience, etc. A premium consumer device.
Amazon did what HP should have done!
Well, Ruby is on the Amazon board isn't he? That's got to be a tough pill to swallow.