Open webOS will not support existing webOS devices | webOS Nation
 
 

Open webOS will not support existing webOS devices 157

by Derek Kessler Tue, 31 Jul 2012 3:52 pm EDT

Open webOS will not support existing webOS devices

In addition to today's release of the core apps  and LunaSysMgr for Open webOS, we got some news that's both surprising and heartbreaking: Open webOS will not support existing webOS devices. According to today's blog post on the Open webOS Project Blog, the development team is "aiming for support on future hardware platforms where SoC's [system-on-chips] support Linux 3.3+ kernel and where open source replacements for proprietary components are integrated. Existing devices cannot be support because of those many proprietary components, including graphics, networking and lack of drivers for a modern kernel".

Feel like you just got punched in the gut? Yeah, us to. Despite being a modification and enhancement of the existing webOS, Open webOS will not be able to support any existing webOS devices, including the most-recently-released TouchPad and Pre3. Reasoning? Their processors don't support the Linux Standard Kernel nor are there complete open source replacements for hardware component drivers. If you were hoping to run Open webOS on your TouchPad, you're going to have to rely on the community to get it done, not HP.

We're not at all thrilled with this decision. HP already has access to the proprietary drivers for the TouchPad, Pre3, and a whole slew of webOS devices and could put together a release of Open webOS for those devices. But yet again, HP's made the decision to neglect off a small but loyal customer base in favor of pursuing bigger dreams. We understand that the resources available to the Open webOS team are limited - certainly much more limited than they were eighteen months ago when HP decided not to bother finishing a webOS 2.0 update for older Pre and Pixi devices and buried it under the news of the TouchPad, Veer, and Pre3 announcements - but this pattern of dumping on those who have stuck with the platform isn't the makings for continuing loyalty. People love webOS, but they can only put up with being slighted for so long.

As pointed out in the blog post, there is at least the webOS Community Edition release for us to tinker with for existing devices (i.e. the TouchPad), which included the older version of the LunaSysMgr as released in webOS 3.0.5. Today's announcement crystallizes the Community Edition's reason for existence: it was a pre-appeasment meant to be there, ready for this news, so HP can say, "But we already gave you that! Isn't that enough?"

There are two things to keep in mind moving forward. One: there's a large and growing number of Android devices out there that offer support for the Linux Standard Kernel 3.3, and given the number of devices supported by the open source CyanogenMod Android project there are plenty of drivers available for those components. Two: The webOS homebrew community cannot and will not be held back. They've already started working on the webOS Community Edition release of LunaSysMgr to see how well they can get it to work on the Pre3, and it'll only be a matter of time before they figure out how to get the goodness of Open webOS to work on our current webOS devices, HP be damned.

157 Comments

HP be damned indeed.

- Written from my Pre3

They brought this on their own.

The execs at HP seriously have no idea the huge business success they could have had with webOS because they never invested into it like they said they would. Its not surprising HP keeps losing the people that work on webOS to other companies.

Everyone loves webOS, even haters admit how awesome the multitasking is although that's not the only amazing thing about webOS.

They needed to invest on some serious competing devices which would have given red numbers on their accounting for a good while but once they kept improving and people caught on with webOS their profits would have been coming in immensely. Their eye sight was shortsighted by the red numbers and gave up...

People would have loved their "HP" webOS devices and devoted webOS people would have wanted more HP devices to go along with their AWESOME phone such as their laptops, printers, etc. webOS could have been their brand appeal for people much like how Apple has used iOS devices to attract people to buy Macs.

Instead now look at this, HP has let the webOS community down over and over again half-assing everything they do with webOS and now no one wants to buy HP products. I don't blame people for boycotting HP devices. I would too if I wasn't a sucker for those HP Envy laptops.

Seriously, there's needs to be some form we, the webOS community, can slap sense into the HP executives!!

+2
HP will be the centre of all enterprises/economic/managing/investors/all_sort_of_faculties studies for the eternity on "What not to do to make your business secure its legacy and therefor, profitability".

+1. I will happily put my name and signature to a letter to be sent to HP. This is just ANOTHER example of unfulfilled promises and misleading us as the consumers. I will NEVER buy a HP product. Never! HP you have once again failed us!!!

WTF HP! Do they what me to install android on my touchpad? I know the Community Edition will be awesome.

Any idea when the Community Edition will be ready for end users?

sigh, i'm upset but not surprised...

I feared that this was gonna happen... Nevertheless: the good thing about webOS has always been the software, not the sometimes "crappy" hardware, right?

I'd be happy to run webOS on modern hardware. I'D even kiss my beloved preplus goodbye. Hopefully it'd run on the upcoming xperia GO? "rugged" webOS... I'd buy one immediately. :-D

HP, just give WebOS to WebOSInternals already.

well said. I cannot express enough how I hate HP for all the bullshit they fed us through the years, so that must suffice : 4amn you HP, I hate you to death, and I will never, EVER buy anything bearing your logo, if you were last electronics manufacturer on this planet.

you are a complete waste.

send from my Palm Pre 3, as it likes to sign itself

Agreed. I will never buy a HP device after all this.

If someone bought a Touchpad during the fire sale when it was announced that HP was out of the tablet and phone business, what is there to be so upset about?

If someone bought a Pre3 when it was not even for sale officially in the US or a Veer or Pre 2 after August 18th of last year, what on earth were you expecting?

...what if that someone have bought original Pre (-), as soon as it was available? What if that someone was burnt time and time again by HP, ever since PAlm has been taken over? What if someone expects atleastSOME fecking continuity, and at least SOME class & good will gesture, even as HP is closing the webOS shop?

+1!

Sorry to be negative, but really then, what's the point?

Yes, there's one: HP want you to forget about the "old stuff" and buy the new ones that coming soon with Windows 8 !!!

Just like Apple, all they want it's just your money :-(

Apple still makes phones and tablets. What do they have to do with HP?

So will the term be FrankenOpen or OpenFranken? :)

Totally understadable. Why should HP aim for yesterdays hardware? I'm not happy, but that's not the point in the situation the webOS team at HP is in. They have to think of tomorrow!

Not only that. They said they had to remove the proprietary stuff from day one of the open source announcement. That fact is NOT a surprise. It's been expected for almost 10 months. Now that they can't replace it that's new. But i'm not surprised at all. Bottom line is they can't include the proprietary stuff in the OS period unless they get permission. So though i'm surprised they aren't supporting the touchpad, I'm not that surprised. And as for not supporting the phones. I'm not surprised a single bit. I've expected it from the second Meg said they were getting out of the phone hardware business. I'll be more surprised if the final supports phones then doesn't. But it's still a possibility.

regardless it's a waste in my opinion to dedicate any resources to the old hardware. maybe the touchpad but sorry there just isn't a big enough user base in my opinion to make it worth it.

Missing the point: THIS CAN'T COMPETE AGAINST ANDROID. If all Open webOS is a reference build for an imaginary device, no one is going to step forward and build it except for us.

No business is going to want to make this. This is HP's final failing of webOS. If it goes on, it will be a component in a larger product that's not what you're going to expect: it could power your next on-dash GPS in your Ford.

And even if that happens, what was the point of stringing us along with it? To make us die-hards go buy a Ford Fusion?

And the beat (ings) goes on.

Will be moving to android soon on my phone anyway (yeah I know I'm late on that one). Touchpad will be used till it dies... But after that, probably android in tablet form...

Does anyone know if this is a resource  or a licensing issue? If it is a resource issue, than they could release the 3.05 driver source and someone would have the option to hack together the required drivers from that code.

If it is a licensing issue, then perhaps the 3.05 driver code could be released under NDA to a third party capable of developing binary drivers for the existing hardware. Then they could release simply the binary drivers for use with new OpenWebOS builds.

As I understand it's a bit of both.

You can't release someone else's source code but there's nothing legal stopping HP from releasing a Doctor ROM with the closed source drivers included.

They just aren't willing to spend the time/money.

I agree with your second paragraph. HP could just recompile the existing drivers for the new kernel and offer the binaries as separate packages to the community.

HP is full of it. Proprietary drivers have been released for the standard Linux kernel for a long time now. ATI, nVidia, and countless wireless chip manufactures have released proprietary drivers for their hardware that work just fine with the Linux kernel.

HP could also release DKMS packages for the drivers so the drivers recompile themselves for minor kernel updates. There are so many options to do this stuff legally that I feel that HP is just making up excuses.

I think you are giving HP too much credit.

Precisely.

I'd type more, but I'm too pissed to be coherent. I'll just leave it at "Precisely."

I actually translate that as "HP won't do it" rather than it's incapable.

HP Pre 3 uses an MSM8255T, which is also used on a crap load of current and upcoming lower end Android phones. Even the latest HTC One V uses the same processor and has ICS running on it. The Galaxy W which uses the same processor even has CM9.

One of the "problems" of WebOS is how quickly older hardware is abandoned with new OS revisions.

This is not new and for WebOS to move forward, to worry about the small amount of phones still in service is understandable.

It was discontinued for a reason! They obandon the whole thing not just support.

Totally understadable. Why should HP aim for yesterdays hardware? I'm not happy, but that's not the point in the situation the webOS team at HP is in. They have to think of tomorrow!

Agreed (sadly). By the time this is ready to roll, even my wonderful Pre 3 will be dated.

Linux still runs on i386 and i486 Intel processors. It goes against the nature of Linux to say why bother with older stuff.

Please build me an Open webOS port that sits on top of a 486DX/50 CPU running the the Linux Standard Kernel 3.3.
 
Yes, it makes no sense. Just like people continuing to tell others that "Linux still runs on i386 and i486 processors" when any such implementation is likely to be a rather slow and incredibly lean and limited embedded system.
 
For all practical purposes, though, your example says nothing about the lack of pragmatism involved that your comment implies.

The comment was aimed towards the notion of "why bother?". People have been "bothering" with Linux for a long time now. They have managed to squeeze the OS on just about everything. I bet someone said "why bother making a complete OS/desktop experience that runs on just 50MBs of space" yet someone did it. Plus you can take the source code for the kernel and recompile it yourself to run on a 486DX. I used to recompile Linux kernels all the time. I think there are a lot of folks out there who just don't understand what open source means or how Linux works. Head over to Distrowatch.com to see the sheer amount of companies/groups that "bother".

@k4ever THANK YOU_FOR TELLING IT LIKE IT IS. IF NO ONE BOTHERED AFTER THE CREATION OF WINDOWS WE WOULD_NEVER_HAVE_"LINUX" ! ! ! !

This does suck hard... I have been looking forward all year to putting OpenWeb OS on my touchpad.

Maybe it is for the best in the long run. We do need to get WebOS onto new devices. I love my touchpad but in the back of my mind, I want to know I can get a new, more up to date device and put (open) webOS on it when my touchpad finally gives up the ghost.

Looking forward to the community edition. The things done by webos internals and all the other developers both big and small since hp pulled the plug has been nothing short of amazing!

I am also disappointed in this news. As a Sprint Pre owner I knew I would not get this since I never received an update from 1.45.

I am very sad that the TouchPad & Pre 3 will not be able to work with Open webOS, but based on the complete rewrite because of proprietary parts in current devices we can see why they will not be supported.

We can see it, but we do not have to like it.

Given time our Home Brew community will amaze us with the community edition.

It's not obvious to me why the proprietary parts are a problem for Open WebOS, - somehow the CyanogenMod folks managed to overcome that obstacle.

Someone care to explain why Open WebOS can't work on the Touchpad?

This was expected. I'm a bit surprised that it wasn't assumed.

So are they really doing all of this work with Open webOS with the hopes that some manufacturer will pick it up and put it on a new device? How are they planning on convincing anyone that Open webOS is worth taking a gamble on (especially since HP didn't gamble very well with webOS)?

I would love to be able to transition from my Pre3 to a new device with Open webOS, but I have serious doubts that it is going to happen. At this point, I am counting on using my Pre3 and TouchPads as long as they last and then transition to another operating system. Which makes me sad since I have been with Palm since the late '90s.

I'm moving to BlackBerry10 -- unless MozillaOS is available in the states by then.

Well, understandable to think for tomorrow, yes. But not when they are not going to build (open) webOS friendly devices.

LONG WILL LIVE...oh, wait.

LOL...
You're enjoying this, right?!
Well, seeing it positively; whatever hardware gets to use open webOS will be better than HP's.
"The night is darker, just before dawn"

What the hell HP? You just keep crapping on the only people who give a shit about webOS. Proof, if it were necessary, that Leo was not the only asshole at HP.

WWW TTT FFFFF !!!!!!!

I love my touchpad webOS and was hoping for an OTA update with open webos updates but is seems It will not happen.
my grandkids don't even want to touch it they run for the iPad an so will I
adios hp
I will never get an HP tablet again

HP is testing the new OS on something. Hopefully they will reveal what devices they are using for testing/trouble shooting.

"aiming for support on future hardware platforms"
Are you kidding me? Wow.

And there we go again .....and again.................and again

Man, you guys are so easily surprised by news like this.

At least HP are consistent total fucking assholes! I mean, come on, you've only strung us along this far to now, today, cut the cord! You've obviously known this for quite some time so why didn't you just say so a year ago? One month before release too? FUCK YOU!

Seeing your company go under and gutted will be my greatest enjoyment on earth.

Android, here I come. It makes me kind of sick to say that but it's inevitable. Time to bury this dead horse.

chaosdivine;

I hear you and feel your frustration.. my Pre 3 broke 2 months ago and I bought a Samsung Galaxy s2. Nice phone, but, what a crappy OS. Seriously, especially if you love WebOS for its unique way of handling many tasks, multitasking interface, and ease/intuitive use of gestures and cards.

The only hopes we have left are that Windows Phone 8 is great, OR, that RIMM, who is copying many of WebOS"s features in their next OS, pulls a rabbit out of the hat and blows everyone away with their new devices in 2013.

:(

I recently moved to Android (been one week) and although I miss WebOS, ICS is pretty decent IMHO. I strongly suggest getting one of the few ICS devices to try.

That said: long live WebOS - in one form (open) or another (Duarte concepts). This news stinks but not a big surprise to me.

Interesting news.

Kinda puts the kabosh on any NEAR TERM hardware desings for WebOS, doesn't it???

One thing is for sure, though, this surely kills any continuity/loyalty from those consumers with current WebOS devices to anything new that will have to come no earlier than 2 years away, now; no one will touch this OS until it complete reproves itself all over again.

Sigh...

Go BLACKBERRY BB10 and get the best of both worlds!

...assuming RIM doesn't go under before it's released.

They killed continuity when they decided to ignore the largest base of WebOS users and left them at 1.4.5.1.

As an end-user I don't feel that this applies to me. I can't even get homebrew! So for the 1% of webos users able to get open webos good for you! I don't mean to undermine the work done by volunteer enthusiast developers but that is the reality for most of us. It's nice to be caught up on the latest news and wonder how many features palm/hp/carriers bricked upon their user's we miss out on. Until I'm able to send my phone into reputable hands to get updated: open webos, homebrew are just pipe dreams for the majority.

There is a lot of work coming up to webosinternals. Let's show our support for webOS by donating for the hard work they are doing in their sparetime, instead of running to android/windows phone.

cheers,
Proximity

I dont care. Going BB10 ASAP. I will miss webOS though. For sure not expecting much new here.

Perhaps openWebOS on a Galaxy S3?

Go on....
:-)

I'm ready and waiting for that. {Jonathan}

It sucks, but then again how long did we really expect them to support older hardware? WebOS hardware was never great to begin with, and maybe we will be able to use WebOS on some of the more recent android phone, that would be good, lots of options out there.

Sooo, does anyone know any current Andriod phones that meet these requirements?

Waiting for Open webOS was the only reason I didn't already abandon Sprint for a cheaper prepaid plan...

Is this really any different than Apple, or Microsoft? Do iPhone 1 users get the latest OS on their phones?

iPhone 1 users were updated to 3rd generation OS 3.1.1. (not free).

3.1.1 iss not outdated in that it works with all apps outside of specific hardware changes.

My wife has a 1st generation iPod touch from 2007 that OS wise, runs circles around WebOS 1.4.5.1 which is 2 years newer.

No, iPhone 1 users don't get the latest version of iOS on their phones. They did, however, get through version 3.1.3, and the 3G (released prior to the Palm Pre) got up to 4.2.1. Meanwhile, the iPhone 3GS (released June 2009, along with the Pre) will be getting iOS 6.0.

What version of webOS did the Pre (or even Pre Plus) get up to? Version 1.4.5.1. The Pre 2 (released Oct 2010)? Version 2.1.0 in the US (2.2.4 in Europe).

The TouchPad and Pre 3 released a year ago (bit less, actually, for the Pre 3). The Pre 3 will be forever stuck at 2.2.4 (versis 2.1.1 or 2.1.2 for the Veer), whereas the TouchPad is now stuck at 3.0.5 (with 3.0.5 Community Edition eventually coming out).

One can buy hardware running Apple and Microsoft hardware. This hardware comes with new features and benefits for users.

Where can I buy the hardware running Open webOS and what new features and benefits will it have for me as a user over the webOS in my current TouchPad?

(And yes, I'm being rhetorical with that question.)

My iPhone 3GS, which my son is currently using, is getting updated to iOS 6, and that is 3 years old and came out 2 months after the original Palm Pre went on sale on Sprint.

So the purpose of all this code is what? Is my question. I really like my pre3 and touchpad but with the lack of apps or even updates to apps its seems like there isn't any hardware for the future. its all looking like a write off for HP.

While everyone is saying that is understandable and was to be expected, they are missing the other big, important thing... there's no "we are making hardware" announcements or "we are partnering with company X to make hardware" announcements to go with this news.

So essentially we are left with hardware that is running end of life software and software that doesn't come pre-installed on any hardware.

Aside from the whole not having hardware for the software, they still have to figure out the chicken and the egg problem with the apps and the rest of the ecosystem.

Does this mean
Open WEBOS WON'T RUN ON MY ORIGINAL SERIAL#99 Palm Pilot! HP be dammed indeed..

Sent From Palm Pilot #99

So far it won't run on anything.

My Pilot was a U.S. Robotics, I don't know where you've gotten this "Palm" stuff from. :)

I can truly understand the frustration of a loyal user base used to being treated badly by a succession of poorly explained decisions. The reaction of many folks here is natural given webOS' past. But . . . I can't join in the negativity because I think we have what we will need to give webOS a future when Open webOS is released.

It seems to me that webOS CE will be the future for the Touchpad and, maybe, for some of the legacy phones (Pre2, Pre3 and Veer). The Homebrew Community is already stepping up with improvements that should keep us TP owners happy for a long time to come. Hopefully, the webOS Community will give webinternals generous support to do that. Maybe someone will figure out how to put webOS CE on our phones, too.

Open webOS will be the future for the platform on new devices and will benefit from the work done with webOS CE. It's only a question of when this will happen.

As for me, I'll be waiting for the webOS CE V1.0 for the TP.

I totally agree... And I'll be waiting for the webOS CE for the TP and the open webOS for my next phone with much better specs than the Pre3...

Yes, but who's making a sexy_physical-keybord_slider cellphone that meets open webOS criteria? Thing is, most of Palm/webOS user love physical keyboard, slider form, gesture area and more. So we are (or at least I am) saddened that we will have to settle on virtual-keyboard_no gestures-area_no-TTS and more devices? I have my Pre³ on 1.9Ghz and is a beast! Love it! My Touchpad on 1.7Ghz and performs awesome! I would like to continue using it. And while apps, ACL and more stuff comes, I don't see it reasonable to spend lots of money when my HP devices run almost the same of others. That's the bad taste in our mouths with this news, but we (I) still love webOS and will gratefully support webOS Internals in their intent of porting this to, either old or new devices. What HP says can't be done, webOS Internals prove wrong.
And yes! LONG WILL LIVE webOS!!!

"lernel"??? *hehe*

Well, this helps narrow down my decision making for the laptop I will soon purchase. No HP.

Epic dissapointment, epic mess.
HP need to get this os supported on as much hardware as possible if this is gonna make any sense going forward, doing deals with component manafacturers for driver sources etc, and surely they should start with the hardware that they built, right?
What is different in touchpad and pre3 hardware design to the htc android phones and tabs with their snapdragons and adrenos which are already running linux kernel 3+ ?
Makes no sense to me, and neither does purchasing any future hp hardware (at non fire sale prices!)
meh I give in.

.
In a primitive sense, this is ... wtf ....

In a technical sense, this really is no surprise. I've always felt the evolution of computing was only held back by the reluctance to make a clean break. Seeing it happen is somewhat refreshing.

The encouraging part to these "slow moments" in tech history, is how someone always seems to find a way.

I trust webOS is in better hands these days. Being open source allows for more "realist" advice, with strong community guidance. The software side of things gives webOS its' fighting chance - not the hardware. I for one will gladly bury my Pre and let my Touchpad fade away, if I can have webOS on suitable substitutes.

From my perspective, webOS just needs a tablet option to revive itself right now. Given enough exposure, the ability to tie itself into the phone market may be achievable in some future. With the principles that make the software side great, incorporated into a more adaptable version of webOS, one that is less constraining, this new beginning - minus the Pres and TP's - could be the way it was meant to be.

.

oh yes, there was a computer company, that was "breaking clean" with every hardware/software release, they were called Amstrad-Schneider, and went out of business in one quick hurry.

webOS was supposed to be the clean break from PalmOS.

Clean breaks are certainly easier to take when they come with announcements of new hardware and cutting edge features that consumers are interested in.

Both me and my Touchpad are very sad right now.

Woah woah woah, guys, everybody, hold the phone. Is NO ONE excited by the fact that they mentioned they're prepping the OS for new hardware? I personally think that this is AMAZING news. Yes it sucks that my Pre 3 won't get the latest and greatest, but at the very least, I might be able to wipe the dust off of my GS2 and load WeOS onto it. And hope beyond hope, maybe they know something about new hardware that we don't know.

The glass is freaking half full. Really it is.

By what sorcery do you plan to accomplish this?

The Galaxy S II uses a Snapdragon APQ8060...the exact same CPU as your TouchPad: it's going to have the exact same issue the TouchPad has - it won't be supported under Open webOS due to a lack of open-source drivers.

For *what* new hardware? The hypothetical devices it could run on, if anyone wanted it? Who's going to bother? If you want an open source 3rd party OS, Mozilla is working on one, and it's got a much better market penetration and name. {Jonathan}

I've never heard of any one using the MozillaOS and webOS is more than 3 years old and has been used by millions.... Just saying...

Because FirefoxOS (it's not called "MozillaOS") hasn't even been released yet. And they have a large number of hardware OEMs lined up and ready to support it.
 
So, uh, your point's kinda invalid and rather misinformed.

I know that it hasn't been released yet... that was my point. From what I've read about it, the project attempts to do what webOS has already been doing for 3 years.

While FirefoxOS may have hardware OEMs lined up to support it, my point was that it doesn't have better market penetration as Jonathan Ezor mentioned. It's penetration is zero as you mentioned as it hasn't been released.

Whether you think my point is invalid, it is accurate.

And yes this comes from a person who hacked the XUL of Mozilla 0.9 browser back in 2000 or 2001 or so.

I'm still finding it hard to believe this isn't some sort of wind up.

Posted from my HP Touchpad running CM9

My extreme excitement for this project was extinguished in the 60 seconds it took to read that post. I have an original Pre and a Touchpad and I don't want to rely on Cyanogenmod. Selling to HP was a death sentence. I sent them a letter earlier in the year vowing to never purchase another HP product...this seals the deal.

it doesn't make sense. Supporting old devices means Open webos can get a big pool of loyal users at once after official release.

Now, ... probably there will have no mass production cell phone running Open webOS on the earth.

Written from Pre3

Considering how HP has handled this whole WebOS/Palm issue is anyone surprised? As far as I'm concerned HP and Nut Meg can take their ball and go play on the freeway! Once my Pre & Touchpad give up the ghost that's that! I'm not tech savy enough to hack devices nor do I really want to. I'm more of the end user type, just open the box and enjoy!

if anyone has any more doubts that the whole "open webOS" stunt is anything but write down and PR damage control stunt, I'll call him a blind idiot

HP differs from flying pigs only by the letter "f". You will never, EVER get a dime of my business, HP, EVER!

Yeah I think after 1.0 they will place the project in the hands of the community, move the remaining employees to other divisions and quietly pull all support for it.

Just when I thought I recovered from the previous personal violation I read this.

Is Dick Cheney on the Board of Directors at HP?

If nothing else we remained true to our dreams and convictions.

Not really surprised. If Palm still owned WebOS this would not have happened. Hp doesn't care about us that are loyal to the Palm brand and WebOS. As long as my Pre 2 is going along with the aid of patches from the homebrew community I wouldn't even bother with their new Open WebOS Platform.

Pure hard core! Keep it on!

/)_-

I have gone through 2 pre minuses, and now have a touchpad and frankenpre2. I love webOS and love this news. My wife just went from her pixie to a GS3 last month. Holy crap - what a fantastic, fast, large screened piece of hardware! Isn't the dream to run our OS on equipment like that? For me it is! I love my frankenpre, but I want better hardware. How about loading open webOS on a $99 GS2? What if you could run Android apps using OpenMobile as discussed in March as part of openwebOS? I loathe HP, but this could fit the bill on all levels. So we are forced to go get better hardware to run it all - what's the problem? Most people get new phones every 2 years anyway...

Excatly... of course I was pissed at first, but I prefer running webOS on a GS3 than on my Pre+...

And my Pre3 was stolen so this just makes me decide that my next phone will not be again the Pre3...

Besides the GS3 now has somewhat of a Pre3 shape, hehe...

Coo-coo-cool! But the SGS3 doesn't support TTS, or Touchstone charging, gesture area, etcetera, etcetera. I was hoping for new hardware that implemented and improved this features we, webOS users, love. Probably I was hoping too much... my bad.

The last round of layoffs took place after the initial announcement. So the initial plan likely had to be drastically scaled back by the project managers due to limited resources. I would guess that after the 1.0 release HP will do another round of layoffs and have a couple dozen employees left in the division by years' end.

Tax write-off.

Right - remember when the verge had that inside webos story and this claim was made:

"And the software situation isn't much better: skepticism is high that the company will still be able to hit its target of September for Open webOS 1.0, particularly in the face of growing layoffs both inside Palm and throughout HP. Multiple sources tell us that there are specific tax benefits to keeping Palm "on the books" until July 1st, the second anniversary of the completion of HP's acquisition, and that Whitman could conceivably drop the axe shortly thereafter — the internal roadmap apparently extends beyond that date, but as always, those plans are subject to change."

So I'm guessing they get it out on Sept 1st and start pulling the plug.

Given HP is in charge, I'm not surprised. Sad, sickened. My next tablet will be a Surface. Bye HP.

Shame on the mess!

What about the app store. Is there much chance of that closing? I'm unfortunately kinda new here, and just wondering.

Well, with this news, I would think the prices on Pre accessories in the WebOS Nation Store should be deeply discounted (Hey Derek, hint, hint). The longer "WebOS Nation Store" waits to discount Pre accessories, the harder it will be to clear out the inventory. How may phones can use the Touchstone chargers. I think the Touchstone, with USB cable, should be $5.00. I would buy one for each room in my house! I since recently "overclocked" my Pre Plus, I could really use the Seidio Innocell 1350 Extended Battery. I am willing to pay $12.99 for the battery. Come on, WebOS Nation, who else is going to buy these accessories? Yeah, I am cheap. Think of the dad on the TV show "Everyone Hates Chris". That's me.

Mike

I like your suggestion. Just bought a Pre 2 for when my Pluses die. I'm going to use these phones into the ground with my 5g of free hot spot from Verizon. Yes I know the 2 wont get more than 2g. With deals on the accessories I would also buy another touchstone and large battery-sent from my Touchpad. Who knows by the time they die maybe WebOS will be available on different hardware.

Julius rocks! How much do the Touchstone cost? I bought 2 of then in 2010 for $5 when I bought my Pre+. Pity they aren't so useful since my Palm died....

Ok - I might be a little 'thick' here, can someone please correct me with what I'm missing....?

Open WebOS - Depends upon Linux Kernel 3.3

Linux Kernel 3.3 is open source

open source means people can add in patches etc

Cyanogenmod has just about all hardware working, bar the camera

Therefore, what's stopping some (ok - very bright person), taking kernel 3.3, adding in patches from the android platform (if they're not available elsewhere - eg. community), and porting 'OpenWebOS' to the current platforms.

Hmmm - 'Open' WebOS, doesn't that mean 'Open source'? - in which case there's nothing to stop this going - albeit a little more of a tortuous journey, to our hardware...?

- Or am I missing something here...?

Carl.

Here's my take:

You are missing the hardware side, which is the issue. Lets say all modern CPUs have compiled, close sourced/open sourced drivers that work with Linux kernel 3.1, which is not the kernel in Open webOS.

As stated in the article, There are no devices with drivers for the CPUs to run Linux Kernel 3.3. There is no amount of hacking that can make these drivers exist. They must be released by manufacturers and we don't know when that will happen.

All this talk about "Oh CM9 runs on all these devices. why can't webOS?!" Cause, just like the article explains CM9 uses an older kernel. This new kernel is not compatible with old stuff because there are no drivers. I think all these people freaking out don;t understand that these drivers could very well be released tomorrow, next week or soon after. As soon as we have the 3.3 kernel drivers for the Pre 3 chipset, it becomes possible to port open webOS.

I'm done. I own both the Pre3 and Touchpad - not because HP branding but webOS. I thought, and still do, parts of thr UI and gesture area are brilliant and feel natural. With this news i'm done. When this hardware dies, it'll be Android or Microsoft for mobile. As for selecting HP hardware, be it printer or otherwise, not likely.........

This is how big corporate a-holes deal with the people who make up their user base. Throw us a week old bone and then take that away and kick us in the guts. In reading all these comments I have counted many people who will not be buying HP products very soon. Hey HP guess what making computers and printers doesn't make you money, it is the buyers of your product that make you money. That computer or printer is a liability until someone buys it, then it becomes an asset in the form of money.
If Open webOS works on new hardware that will be great. I would like the big screen of a Samsung device running webOS. But if we can't even get open webOS to work on hardware that the software was originally designed to work on in the first place, how are we supposed to get it on newer different hardware not designed for it even remotely.
Thanks alot HP for screwing everyone here and not even being nice enough to give a reach around. You Suck HP.

I hate to admit it....and as sad as as I am for my current devices...I can only think that this move is one step closer to bringing WebOS to (actual) newer devices. Ok, so "newer devices" in this scenario only means tablets, but I just gotta think that HP has something up their sleeve. No way would they spend all this money to develop Open WebOS and not have an ultimate use for it. What that use will be is the real question. I don't care how many bad moves that HP has had, there is just no sense at all in developing an OS "just because" or for "the fun of it." There is a possibility that they are simply keeping it alive while they see what pans out with Windows on tablets. Another possibility is that they are developing with the intention of selling it, like a house-flipper fixes a house to sell it for a profit. Perhaps there is some other 3rd option. Given where HP is currently at in the tablet hardware arena...which would be nowhere...its hard to say how this fits in to their big scheme of things.

Only time will tell.

1st reason: Image. HP spent $ 1.2 ($ 3.3 with loses) billions on Palm/webOS, so it would have hurt more if HP would've cut it with no discretion. Lots of people will never purchase HP's products (me included...at least if they're not using webOS), imagine the chaos that a simple "plug off" would have done to their -already damaged- image?
2nd reason: Taxes. If keeping webOS (after July 1st, I think) would lower their tax payments, well, they rather invest a couple of hundred thousands (probably a couple of millions) and avoid billions in taxes.
So they are not doing it "just because", but they are definitely not doing it for us (webOS lovers). Or at least that's what I can assume by how they have manage all this matter. Would be nice if time prove us wrong though, but cannot trust HP on that nor anything.

The user base is small. HP is not manufacturing the existing phones anymore.

To make Open WebOS work on discontinued hardware for HP is a waste of time, because only a fraction of the small user base is going to hack this in on their own. Tweekers and hobbyists will, but a "citizen" handset buyer is never going to deal with it.

It's wasted resources.

Well.... At least we got ICS on the touchpad to forget about HP, I guess ICS on Pre 3 would be a nice consolation prize if device is not going to be supported.

Selling my Pre 3 immediately if anybody still wants to buy it.... Maybe giving it to charity, but that'd be bad of me to give a poisoned gift though :p

Honestly, it think this may be a good think for webos. It signals they are looking forward and not just a side project to work on old hardware few people have.

if they want it on modern hardware then that's likely because they'd like to make it as appealing as possible to potential manufacturers and likely none of them are gonna use old webos hardware. i mean maybe i'm wrong about that but i'd think that if you're gonna release even a lowend phone in 2013 it would have better hardware then much of the old pre hardware or at least different. but it may be a signal that they want to shop the os not just sit on it and let it be a tinkering thing.

...you honestly believe there is something, anything, possibly GOOD coming for webOS, from the enterprise loins of HP? Realy? Like, could you give just ONE single example from the past & present, that would support that view?

They are closing webOS shop, and trying to do that in a way that would be least damaging to the company/stock price. They are doing it since August last year, they only differ on the matter HOW to implement it - irrelevant technical details.

If it doesn't cost them much, to ditch their existing users, they'll do it without even blinking. They are killing any possible faith and excitement remain in the platform & it's supporters. (BTW they were doing this since the takeover). IT is NOT how you build the future of Open Source project, it is how you are killing it. They know that, but they just don't care, because they just want to close the shop, at smallest costs possible.

F* them and fed them fish heads. I hate you, HP!

Me? Do I believe? Honestly. Helllls no! I haven't believed in any of the hype for a long long time. I didn't believe the touchpad would sell well, i didn't believe the veer would sell well. I didn't believe HP's changes to webos like touch to share hit the mark. They've never solved the problem of having apps and sync software etc. They were destined for failure in my mind. And i knew HP's financial trouble because i was an investor before they bought hp so i had a keen eye to how much in losses they were wiling to take and as soon as they showed the veer and Pre 3 then how thin the ipad 2 was compared to the touchpad i knew it was over cause it wouldn't sell and HP never had the cash position to simply cover the losses. And Hell i didn't think any company short of Microsoft, apple, or google buying webos was ever gonna work simply because they are software companies so they have experience and they had the cash to deal with prolonged losses. Anyone that new HP knew they did not have that kind of cash. They needed it to be profitable immediately. That was clear if you were an investor well before they bought Palm. And short of Sony deciding to buy hp and also stop being an infighting crappy Sony company i don't think Webos will ever be more then what ubuntu is to pcs: a hobbyist toy for tech geeks and tinkerers that will take a shot at shit like dual booting a pc or adding a cyogenmod to a tablet.

My point is, there is zero benefit to wasting money supporting the paltry number of people left over on old devices. There was zero benefit before worrying about them. But if they are putting all kinds of proprietary code webos then they'll have to pay to license that stuff which is a deterrant to anyone that wants to buy it or use it. Starting totally fresh is the best way to go.

It doesn't remotely mean i think it would work. My point was supporting old hardware is going backwards. It's worrying about people that sorry, don't matter. And if they are looking forward not back it's positive. It's futile but better then the way they've been before with releasing hardware that looks just like older hardware with no forward thinking designs. I simply think that HP or Palm never ever knew what "cool" or attractive devices were or how to appeal to the masses. and i'm closer to the masses then the average precentral reader. HP made a choice to dump a an OS that almost nobody wanted to buy. And if you didn't know when they decided not to support the pre minus with updates people are naive. The webos user base is so small as to be irrelevant to them. The don't care cause they don't have to care. Those people aren't helping their bottom line. Nobody on precentral is making hp profitable. And hell HP's PC sales are up 12% in 2012 form 2011. That's how much they care. Cause 100% of their profit comes from other non webos stuff. So when you and others are like fuck the. HP is like, "Do you guys hear someone talking?"

But to your point. Bottom line i think webos was done the moment they had their lackluster Feb announcement a few years back and i don't think anything good is coming from webos.

Well, think about it: we've been purchasing apps from the App Catalog for the last six months while they abstracted Enyo from webOS (so apps can be made outside of webOS), then gave us the "Community Edition" (no improvements, just more source code), and now this announcement.

We've bankrolled their Open webOS development (even with as paltry our contributions actually were) and now that it's almost through, we're told we're getting nothing more from HP for our current devices. This time next year, there will be some hustle about how to handle HP Synergy on legacy devices as Touchpad reaches it's 2nd Birthday. (Namely, when it gets shut off -- even if it's used for Open webOS, I wager improvements to it would be more possible without our data on it, let alone paying a CDN to hold it when most of us aren't using it anymore.)

Otherwise, that's it. We are the cautionary tale. This is what failure feels like. Breathe it in. I doubt most of the people here on webOSNation now are going to be a part of Open webOS this time around. There's pretty much nothing left to lie to us about.

I just reread the statement and I must say, between the lines there could also be somethig more positive: "aiming for support on future hardware platforms where SoC's [system-on-chips] support Linux 3.3+ kernel and where open source replacements for proprietary components are integrated. Existing devices cannot be support because of those many proprietary components, including graphics, networking and lack of drivers for a modern kernel". - This means to me they want to keep the kernel untainted of binary blobs. Wich is imho a good thing for an open source OS.

The last nail in the coffin for webOS!

I just had this epiphany: They don´t want us to upgrade our elderly handsets because they are secretly working on the release of the Windsornot phone for Q4, hence the rough treatment of the leaked images. This will come with vanilla OpenWebOS. I am so sure this will happen and now I´ll go ahead and marry the toothfairy...

But take no meaning that open WebOs doesn't support Touchpad and other Palm devices!

Why?

Because they can provide a non-free repo, like every gnu/linux distro, that contains proprietary driver and software, that's all!

So HP I suggest to have a non-free repo of WebOs! OK?

Okay, this is stupid. Most Android phones are using ARM processors. Android runs on the Linux kernel. The HP TouchPad has an ARM processor and can run Android. Because of this, why can't open WebOS be ported to the HP TouchPad?

Never buy your computer

I wish you fail

Never buy your mobile phone.

My Pre 3 was stolen 2 weeks ago and I decided to wait and see how open webOS was going to be managed as I feared something like this was going to happen... but I was even trying to develop an app which would make a siren sound with a special SMS for when I had again a Pre 3 lol...

Definetly next phone will be a galaxy 2 or 3... I will change to android and then see if I it's worth flashing open webOS to it... which frankly I do think so...

being honest, the reason I haven't changed to any galaxy phone was the OS and mostly its crappy multi-tasking UI, which yes, they changed now to something webOS-like, but it is not yet as functional as webOS, IMHO...

The news blows, but alas it was expected and it is what I would do if I were the head of a company...

I feel really disappointed as a 3-year loyal-pre user... but it is webOS what really makes great all the pres I have used (actually just 2 lol)... so this just tells me that my next phone will not be again the pre3... sadly, but it was just a phone (IMO pretty great BTW)...

Not suprised . HP has not made a good decision in years. I just hope my TouchPad holds out until I can purchase a Surface. In short, I will NEVER purchase an HP product again.

RB

It's well demonstrated that platforms live and die on their apps. Transitioning existing WebOS users to the new version would kickstart that market long enough for new devices to come along. Not to mention keeping ahold of the enthusiasts who have been so critical for the survival of WebOS so far. (And by survival at this point I really mean the people running the life support gear.)

Not transitioning means there will be no Open WebOS apps until a manufacturer decides to actually release a device. In other words -- when it is finally born, it will be born crippled.

I think that is a huge mistake.

So let me get this straight - no Pre3 on Sprint??

I spoke to my a buy at Sprint rep at Best Buy and he told me that in the coming months...

From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; for hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee.

This is the end of the line. The existing user base is already too small to support application developers. They desperately need to grow the user base, and that means keeping support for all those existing devices.

If you thought there was too little software now, just wait. This is going to devolve into a little side hobby for a few die-hard enthusiasts. All the mainstream users are going to walk away.

Enjoy your TouchPads until they can't take a charge anymore. Then cut your losses and move on.

Nobody grows a user base by supporting a small number of discontinued devices when there are no plans for new devices.

Unless HP has a secret line of phones or tablets (which in that case, naming the OS Open WebOS would be silly), this is now an OS looking for devices.

Open WebOS isn't going to become popular because some gear heads figure out how to put it on existing devices, it will need to be on a successful handset or tablet for sale out of the box.

This is the key thing that no one focused on with this announcement.

If it isn't going to work on existing hardware, we need a new hardware announcement where Open webOS will be the pre-installed as the default (hopefully only OS).

It's crushing news for all those who are still behind webOS and keeping the spirit alive. Still, it does make sense that Open webOS should focus on standardizing the hardware architecture in order to make it more viable to more product (both new and existing). This would actually make Open webOS more readily available to end users across more devices than HP could ever offer (a good thing).

I do hope the community will be able to dive in and work out something that will allow Open webOS to operate on our existing products. As long as Open webOS retains the spirit and functionality of webOS, then it might be a good thing to step up to new hardware (like an LTE phone? or a thinner and higher res tablet?).

And HP said: "We're open!"
The problem is, nobody walked through the door...

And honestly, there's next to no Pre 3's or Pre 2s out their. And they were never gonna support Pre minus, or pixis or likely Pre 2s so though it's a bit of a surprise that it won't run on a touchpad it's not a shock it doesn't run on any phone.

Folks, please send your complaints to Yannick. He is in charge of the entire open webOS matter.

http://yannickpellet.blogspot.com/

What's the point? It won't change anything.

This was a really disappointing piece of news to me - HP really hasn't given the TouchPad much support and now that they've decided that it won't get open webOS support it's just another reason for me to re-purpose my tablet to run the CyanogenMod.

Yesterday, I read and posted some comments on this, but today, when I saw my Pre³ beautifully perform at 1.9GHz, sliding out that physical keyboard and responding naturally with multitasking and gesture area, touching to "share" (don't think is sharing indeed) with my 1.7GHz Touchpad and touchstone-ing to charge it, I realize, that unless someone develops a device with these features -with improvements off course-, my Pre³ and Touchpad will be the last one to work the way I do.
No, not fuck HP, no... fuck me for loving webOS! I wanted so bad a Pre4 with dualcore 1.5GHz, 1GB of Ram, at least HD Display (some retina-like wouldn't hurt at all), but for the most of all, I wanted a Pre4 for the same reasons/features why I have come to love the Pre series and webOS. I know SGS3 is a slick piece of hardware, but it doesn't behave like any Pre (I must say it has some great features, but still, no it doesn't).
I WANT A PRE4!!! NOT COMPLAINING OF AN SGS3 webOS AT ALL!!!

Too sad… looks like my HP Pre 3 and TouchPad Go finally become orphans and wish the foster parents, webOS homebrew community, will treat them well…