Palm CEO: Pre would have done better than Droid if it launched first, 4th Quarter to be grim 154
We just finished listening to Palm's earnings call for Q3 2010 and while there's nothing that will blow your mind, there were a few tidbits we thought we should point out. First - we'll just say at the outset that our longstanding concern about passion and knowledge about webOS inside Verizon was confirmed and then some - CEO Jon Rubinstein alluded to the challenges Palm faced launching after Droid a few times. Our favorite was when he expressed his own opinion which is pretty much mirrors ours:
We had an arrangement with Sprint that when we launched with Sprint that they would invest in marketing and carry the product and for that they would get an exclusive for a period of time. That really determined when we could do our launch at Verizon. I agree with your premise that if we could have launched at Verizon earlier, prior to Droid, that we would have gotten the attention that the Droid got and since I believe that we have a better product, I think we would have even done better.
More analysis of the earnings call - including why the coming quarter is most likely not going to be great for Palm - after the break.
Given how poorly the Verizon launch of the Palm Pre Plus and Pixi Plus has apparently gone, Palm has obviously been dealt a blow in both marketshare and financial stability. To make things worse, Palm CFO Doug Jefferies announced during the conference call following the Q3 FY2010 results that Palm doesn’t expect the next quarter to be so hot either. A lot of the good news with regards to Palm’s cash burn during Q3 FY2010 came as a result due to shipments to carriers that arrived earlier than expected. Those revenues were expected earlier in Q4, so that income will not be accounted for during the results due in three months.
Palm additionally has a dual problem of inventories. Nearly half a million extra Palm devices ended up as unsold inventory at the end of Q3, while Palm barely sold 400,00 units during the quarter to end users. At the same time, carriers have both reduced and deferred to later dates their orders. Palm is putting increasing focus on selling this backlog of devices instead of shipping more devices to carriers. CEO Jon Rubinstein did indicate that there have been no changes to their planned carrier launches, but what carrier launches those are (if any) was not revealed.
All of this is going to conspire to act negatively on Palm’s expected revenue for Q4, which Jefferies predicted to be less than $150 million on non-GAAP reporting measures. In the just-ended quarter Palm brought in $366 million (again, boosted by earlier-than-expected shipments). At the same time, gross margins are expected to fall into the mid-teens due to increased manufacturing overheads, the aforementioned lower sales volume, and planned promotional incentives. That said, expenses will be lower during Q4 as compared to Q3, but cash burn rate will be higher.
Palm is focusing on cutting and deferring costs where possible to make it through this coming quarter. Jefferies admitted that though Q4 is not expected to be pretty, future quarters are expected to bring marked improvement. Palm has elected not to provide specific guidance as they have in recent quarters.
In short - there's a glut of webOS inventory in the carrier channels and until Sprint and Verizon can churn through those, Palm will likely have a grim quarter. Additionally, when asked if the Q4 numbers indicated that Palm might not get an AT&T launch executed in the 4th quarter, Palm declined to comment (naturally) - but it didn't sound like a crazy question to us.
Finally, Rubinstein refused to close the door on speculation that Palm would be purchased or would license their OS to other hardware manufacturers - but he certainly didn't seem coy or enthusiastic about the prospect of either. Bottom line: Palm's a public company, so Palm has to do what makes best business sense - but our sense from the tenor of his comments is that Palm continues to want to go it alone.
Leading up to today’s announcements, shares of Palm’s stock were up 5.21% and closed regular trading at $5.65. After the no-as-bad-as-expected financial results were announced after market close, after-hours trading of Palm shares continued at around the same level. However, once Jefferies revealed that the better than expected results were due to earlier-than-expected incomes and that Q4 would be significantly worse, Palm shares plunged in after-hours trading more than 12%, dipping below $5 a share for the first time since January 2009.
additional reporting on this article by Dieter Bohn
154 Comments
I agree 100%.
The Pre and Pre Plus could have beaten the Droid if it had taken a similar marketing campaign as the Droid. It should have touted the Pre as a kick-@ss device that does a bunch of things the iPhone doesn't! The Pre is a tech-lovers wet dream, and they failed royally by marketing to creeps and Moms, instead of targeting the 20 and 30-something males.
But the other way the Pre failed compared to the Droid is by taking shortcuts with build quality. The Droid, like the iPhone, is a solid, well built device. It feels like an expensive, high-end device when you pick it up. The Pre, not so much. It's the small details that count. Everything from the cheap plastic volume and power buttons, to the hinged microusb door, all seem awfully cheap. Pick up an iPhone by comparison and it's solid metal frame and glass screen just ooze luxury.
"The Pre is a tech-lovers wet dream"
not it is not... it still seems to be a beta device.
If you think that WebOS feels like a "beta", that I don't even want to imagine what that makes Android.
Aside from the obvious advantages in the UI, WebOS looks pretty well-polished to me. Using my wife's Droid, it really feels like I'm using a pre-release product. Poor UI, odd placement of controls.
At least the iPhone is pretty well polished for [i]what it does[/i], even if it doesn't have quite the UI advancements of WebOS. Android feels as though it's lacking in both departments.
Now that's not to say that WebOS couldn't use some serious improvements. However that can be said of pretty much any OS. This is a continually evolving platform, so there will never be some sort of "final product".
WebOS still feels like beta... and its sad considering how long ago the first phone was announced (over a year). My gf's pre still has "too many cards open" with just 1 card open. There is no way to kill off processes without restarting the phone (which sucks for her because of the shitty build of the device, her power button is non-functional, never dropped). All WebOS is glamour and no balls. There honestly isn't a single thing WebOS can do that Android cannot. On the flipside, there are still tons of things Android can do that WebOS can't. And everything is supported because it is a true open licensed OS, unlike WebOS. You still don't have any API's for voice recording, leaving anything voice recognition still a pipe dream. The video recording is subpar, no expandable memory. Bluetooth is still very crappy and doesn't support data transfer. The 1.4 update just seems like a flop because it took so long to come and only really seemed to bring video recording to the table. Apps DO NOT open faster, they just gave you an animation to occupy yourself while it actually takes longer.
Palm only has itself to blame for the financial position they are in. They honestly have nothing to offer anyone except patents, which I believe companies will gobble up at FireSale prices as Palm's stock continues to fall. They can thank their piss poor hardware and support departments for the fall of WebOS.
I completely disagree. Your entire comment is filled with all-or-nothing fanaticism and no proof to back any of it up. Half of your argument is that WebOS feels like a beta platform. This is your opinion and you're welcome to share it just as much as I am. You then attempt to back this position up with first hand experience on a single piece of hardware, and what I assume is the unspoken "evidence" of several blog posts that appeared on popular tech sites in June of last year... all of which are based on user forum posts from this very site.
Firstly, WebOS (beta or not) is a piece of software, and has very little to do with hardware build quality. Putting aside my nitpicking, I'll take it on good faith that what you're meaning is the Palm Pre feels like a beta device. I further assume you aren't including the Palm Pixi, the Palm Pre Plus, or the Palm Pixi Plus, which all run identical software, since there has never been as much or any buzz about hardware related issues. So your "beta device" opinion stems from a poor experience with one (did you return it? Maybe two?) device. Well, let me counter with the two launch day Pre phones and one mid-August Pre sitting in my house at this moment. None of which have experienced any hardware issues. I can add three additional co-workers who also have trouble free phones. That's 500% more "evidence" that there's nothing wrong with the Pre build quality. We both know, however, that there were many hundreds of thousands of Pre phones that were not included in our impromptu hardware survey. People like you and those who contributed to build issue threads have very real problems, and I hope they get resolved in a satisfactory manner (you deserve to enjoy the device as much as I do), but the people who have these issue will always be the vocal majority in an internet forum that is dedicated to a specific topic (visit an iPhone reception thread for example). This does not make your case a fact. When you have some "Returns and Refurbs" numbers we can talk.
Next we get "All WebOS is glamour and no balls." I'm not even sure what this is supposed to mean. I think it's flame and fanboi bait. Congratulations, I bit. I also think you left out a word.
Then you "honestly" tell us that there isn't a single thing WebOS can do that Android can't do. Conversely, Android can do "tons" of things that WebOS cannot, of which you list two (voice API and expandable memory). Well, again you are mixing software with hardware, as expandable memory is something that requires a physical component. Fair enough, except Android cannot do inductive charging or off-screen capacitive touch (gesture area), so there's a hole in that statement. Comparing just the operating systems in a strict sense seems just as silly. I assume again that you're referring to the flagships: the Nexus One and the Droid. Otherwise, have fun when you have to wipe your MyTouch and G1 to upgrade to 2.1 which isn't OTA. Wouldn't it be cool if Android had something like WebOS Synergy? Hey! See what I did there?
A Voice API is certainly something WebOS developers would enjoy though. Although I personally wouldn't have much use for it. You know what I do have a lot of use for? Lock screen audio controls; another thing Android is missing.
Finally we get your declaration that the 1.4 update was "a flop" because your phone's applications launch slower. This is, again, contrary to my experience on 500% more devices than you. Which lead us right back to the same problem as above. Why not take of video of your apps loading and time it, then Web Doctor (hey, does Android have that?) it back to some earlier version and record and time it launching apps again? Post your results in the forums, and if what you say is accurate, perhaps some of the more knowledgeable members can help debug any issues, or you can gather other users who have had similar experience and help provide feedback for Palm.
The second part of your argument is your soothsaying of Palm's fiscal future. It's a closing paragraph of more opinions that I don't agree with. I would like to add someone to your list of people to blame for Palm's misfortune though: Sprint. Without the exclusivity agreement, maybe the Pre Plus and Pixi Plus could have launched on Verizon or AT&T or T-Mobile sooner and we'd be discussing something else entirely right now.
Well I do believe after being pwned in such an extreme manner, there is no coming back in that argument. lol.
I really expected a six page post by 'Thinker' explaining how all this is good news and Deutsche speculation is 'evidence' that VZ had somehow sold 50% more units than they'd even ordered!
Wednesday's visit to my VZ store found both devices coated in Dust Plus. One lady was there with a purchased Pre in hand with some undisclosed problem and the VZ girl seemed unwilling to even take the device in hand try and help.
ATT launch looks like it will be stillborne. Palm needs a partner.
Palm needs to package this webos into one of those new killer HTC phones that are big and nice and quite frankly killing the pre. the webos is the best thing about this phone by far. the actual phone sucks... come on Palm join HTC and make a killer phone. or else that Supersonic is going to make this pre go away. and i really dont want to start using another os.
Supersonic is the HTC-flavor of the week. Even as a 4G device, impact will be limited because service is so limited and runs on a different cost platform. All these Androids look good on paper, but never post numbers approaching their hype.
i agree... but i'm thinking more HTC HD2 size device running WebOS.... obviously a little faster and a higher resolution screen... so you can prop it up and watch a game/movie without squinting. say in your back seat of your car etc...
woooow
Ugh! no hint of upcoming hardware! Not good. I doubt my phone can physically last two years.
that's ok, they have plenty of extras if you need one...
Yes it would have been nice to hear something new and forthcoming, but then most of you don't remember Osborne Computers from the 80s who made the mistake pre-announcing the release of their next big thing and ended up going out of business simply because nobody wanted last years technology.
Either way, I'm am very pleased with my Palm Pre just finished upgrading my client's mobile tech to the Palm Pre Plus he just purchased from Verizon...btw his first smartphone. Excellent update when it comes to Palm Pre Plus hardware design and the keyboard and slide mechanism alone makes a huge difference. I'm looking forward to when the Plus arrives on Sprint, but I'm not expecting anything anytime soon. The only problem we had related to moving his Palm Centro Contacts and Calendar items from Palm Desktop to Gmail, but I was able to figure it out and now know why Palm no longer directly supports the Palm Desktop.
Either way, am I ashamed that I recommended my client upgrade to the Palm Pre Plus...heck no!!!
Why should I hesitate...I love my original Palm Pre on Sprint, the Pre Plus also rocks, and I've only had minor problems (most caused by me) with my unit. I'm thankful everyday I get to use and grow with what my Pre provides.
Do I need more apps...sure we could all use more primetime apps and there are a few specific I would love to have, but to be honest I can wait. I'm looking forward to webOS API adding additional features like audio input support, so necessary additions like hands-free calling and voice memo can be added by Palm or developers. Something new comes to my Pre almost every month (love the free gift) and last I checked...that doesn't happen on iPhone's, Google and otherwise.
Palm, keep your chin up, keep up the great work, and I'll keep referring your tech to my clients.
Sorli...
THANK YOU!!
I love how you mention the "audio input APIs".
It's a wonder to me that the microphone APIs don't exist by now... nine months after the release of webOS.
Rubinstein can get a one-up on "the Droid" by releasing microphone APIs!! It's no secret. Technical advantages/benefits are what SELL *any* product!! ... not just phones!
Android is so fragmented that it's virtually impossible for all the various platforms to standardize for 3D gaming and microphone APIs. webOS already has one of those down... but why so slow with the microphone APIs??
Sometimes I feel like everybody else around me is deaf, dumb, and blind. Use your senses, Palm Marketing & Sales Department!!
Allow people to create voice memo apps, call recording apps, voip apps, T-Pain apps, etc... and then the Verizon [and Sprint, and O2, and Telcel, and Movistar, and Bell, etc.] sales reps will actually have BENEFITS that appeal to them when trying to figure out whether webOS or Android is a better platform for their customers.
Microphone APIs are *key*. I feel like there's a conspiracy going on... or everybody's just really this blind to reality.
RUBINSTEIN... GIVE THE VERIZON SALES REPS A REAL REASON TO RECOMMEND webOS OVER ANDROID!!! MICROPHONE APIs ARE THE FINAL NAIL IN THE COFFIN...
THEN ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS "BLIND" "TASTE TESTS" OF PEOPLE USING webOS -VS- EVERY ITERATION OF ANDROID (hardware not necessary... preferably 5 devices behind one large piece of wood with 5 cutouts... the point is to break it down to the OS-level). You're already starting to realize that webOS is the real gold mine, not the Pre.... SO GET TESTIMONIALS OF PEOPLE WHO USE *AND* PREFER webOS!!
EVERY advertisement looks the same from EVERY phone manufacturer... Why not Think Different and literally show dozens of people freaking out at how awesome the card system is?? AND THEN you could show the *intelligent* people, who recognize the reality that webOS has features that Android doesn't have (specifically -- frequent updates across ALL webOS phones, globally... 3D gaming... microphone support... *real* Flash... not to mention the better UI & navigation)... basically, all the things that the sales reps SHOULD be teaching their customers.
YOU NEED TV ADS - PERIOD!! YOU NEED TO MAKE A *BIG* SPLASH IN THE POOL, IMMEDIATELY!! Get EVERYBODY asking about the things that DROID DOESN'T!! .. not just a few people at a few bus stops. You need a *NATIONAL* MAKEOVER, and you need it quick. Thank God that the Boob Tube solves problems like these.
These are things that REAL people care about. Why doesn't Palm management?? Is Rubinstein really an Apple mole, or does he honestly think that *waiting* for microphone APIs is gonna help him save face??
Educate people of the BENEFITS found at OS-level (forget the Pre, Pixi, & Touchstone, as amazing as they are), on NATIONALLY televised ads...
- frequent updates (rapid development)
- .. across ALL webOS phones, globally (consistency, equality, sane devel)
- 3D gaming!
- microphone APIs!
- REAL Flash
- not to mention the *best* UI & navigation for any mobile OS.
How can you sell something without a Unique Selling Advantage??
I've just named several that DROID DOESN'T... Why can't PALM get that across!?
"- frequent updates (rapid development)"
frequent updates, that just adds more errors :(
I think 1.4 was one of those bastard releases that Palm just had to get out there.
It's good in the long run, tho. Because they now have an even more refined list to stabilize the point release, which is precisely the point of the point release.
They just need to keep tweaking. But... I'm tellin' ya... microphone APIs will be the final nail in the coffin.
People will be regretting purchasing an Android device when they realize DROID DOESN'T and PALM DOES... accomplishing more in one year with webOS than any other mobile phone OS has ever seen. Just compare Palm @ 1yr -vs- Apple @ 1yr... and don't even include "the Droid", because it will NEVER get 3D gaming or mic APIs... at least not for A LOOOONG time.
"It's good in the long run, tho. Because they now have an even more refined list to stabilize the point release, which is precisely the point of the point release."
it's good to use your own users as beta testers? especially as you cant avoid an update -- at least not longer than round about 2 (?) weeks, when it get forced on the user.
"because it will NEVER get 3D gaming or mic APIs... at least not for A LOOOONG time."
I'm not that well informed, but I thought that android has an micro API. isn't the google navigation using it, where you cant enter your destination via voice. or am I wrong?
You're correct. The API is documented here: http://developer.android.com/reference/android/media/AudioRecord.html
From what I have seen...
There is still no *functional* call recorder.
Perhaps there are voip apps. But call recorders are serious business, folks. As well as the yielding of the dozens of other things you can do with SIMPLE Mic APIs.
IT'S AFRICKIN' PHONE, PALM!!
OK.... You win on point one. Like I said... I think they just need to keep tweaking. One 1.4 every once or twice in a lifetime isn't so bad to me, tho. Ya dig?
On point two... the Mic API deal I'm referring to is the overall yielding of call recording and voip apps. I will seriously go purchase a Moment tomorrow if I can get both of those... because that's amazing that Android could pull that off with all the fragmentation.
I'm thinking globally here. The all around effectiveness & efficiency of having Mic APIs available for whatever (ahem... similar to iPhone) to the overall Palm/webOS goal just makes it RIDICULOUSLY difficult to work for Palm Marketing & Sales, while having webOS w/ Full Mic API access, and not be able to sell it.
PEOPLE PUT UP WITH POOR PRE SLIDERS BECAUSE WEBOS/GESTURE AREA IS *THAT* GOOD.
WAKE UP, PALM!!
THE MEDIA WAS ON YOUR SIDE, BUT YOU COULDN'T EVEN HELP YOURSELF... OR ASK ANYBODY TO HELP YOU OUT.
Jon Rubinstein is no business man. I can show him how to do it if you pass my email address along...
buzzheavy ^a^t^ geeemail dizzle comizzle
Verizon got a deal with Skype VoIP, so the Droid and Blackberry's have it. "Call Recorder" pulled over 20 apps in the Android Market, some free to try, others $0.99-$2.99. Here's the description of a free one:
"Call Recording" is a software for recording the conversation. This software will ask whether you want to record the conversation when you call somebody or some one calls you. The publishers of this software will have no responsibility for all legal wrangling or other disputes that are caused by using this software.
Another:
Note: Will not record calls on Moto Droid, Nexus One or other 2.0+ devices (this means it will work on the Moment)
The Best Selling SA60 Recorder on the market is now available on Android! Record calls, voice notes, meetings and more. Record in various audio formats with flexible recording scenarios. Convenient app widget for home screen one-button use.
rufflez...
Very interesting.
I have done a simple search for "android call recording", and EVERY app that I find is NOT functional. Getting 1, 1.5 stars, etc.
I will have to look into this software for the Moment, but I'm highly doubting it's actually functional. I hope I'm wrong... tho, not for Palm's sake.
Yeah, I haven't tried any of them out, so I can't give a recommendation.
It does, or apps like voice recognition, shazam and voice translation would not exist on Android. Its available on all current releases of Android (1.5, 1.6, 2.0.1, 2.1).
+1 and add in missing basic functionality. Not cutting edge advances. Flash would be the first true advance from the run-of-the-mill. Replacement of the crippled phone app and addition of mike API's are prolly the foundation od 1.5 and 1.6. Neither is a selling point. :(
Flash and Mike APIs were the reasons I bought into webOS... in the promise of frequent upgrades.
They have simply had different priorities than me, and I don't necessarily disagree with all of them. But I definitely want to see Mike APIs in the next release.
I'm not paying for service, so I will no doubt purchase an Android phone in the next two months or so if there are functional call recorders, voip apps, etc. right now! Regardless of a Pre2.
Palm needs to go all-in...
Blitz mode...
- Remove head from ass...
- Save face by wiping it off...
- Meet your new teammates, the carriers...
- Fix the Mike API deal so that we can have a functional call recorder (among a plethora of other things I have to keep palmOS around for, just to use the Mike on a Centro - *facepalm*)...
- Brainwash w/ images of NOTHING but webOS/gesture area & voice over listing ALL BENEFITS OF webOS!!
- Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
- Sell BENEFITS. Sell BENEFITS. Sell BENEFITS.
- OVER. And OVER. And OVER AGAIN!!
*sigh*
The stock price WOULD reflect... especially if "Senior Market Analyst Derek" stopped compounding the bad days of analyst brewhaha.
*sigh of death*
i love webos n i knw the supersonic is around the corner which im also getting but I still have faith that palm is gonna come out with something stronger cause I don't really want to go another route but they better keep up wit the comp
I loved my Palm Pre when I got it on the first day it came out but, am bored with it. No good free apps. Everything is pay pay pay and they aren't worth a dime. The build quality is poor as I am on my 3rd one now. I will be moving to either the Supersonic or Nexus One come June. Sorry Palm, you lost another customer.
Yea I'm with you on that. I'm getting the Supersonic but I'll keep my Pre also.
John also talked about every Pre user going out and selling to 4 or 6 of his/her friends. (to make up for the Verizon idiots pushing Droids). So go out and sell people!
Doesn't it seem kind of irresponsible to try to sell actual friends on a product that's nearly dead though? I can't imagine them being too pleased 3 months from now...
I asked my friend who got a Pre recently how it was and he only said OK. Definitely not a ringing endorsement.
Hey, once that's possible in Australia, I'll gladly get my friends to buy one.
HINT HINT!
I'm also hesitant to do this. I love WebOS, but between the flakiness of the hardware and Palm's uncertain future, If I do recommend a Pre to anyone, it has to come with a warning. Not great for Palm, I know, but I'm also not going to send someone in blind, only for them to discover later that I "left a few things out" of my sales pitch.
Also, I'm not a Palm employee. No offense to them, but I think they need to be able to stand on their own two feet. Aside from having a fun device to play with, I have nothing invested in them.
My family and friends look to me as a early adopter on select tech items and a frugal cutting edge of cheap on more common tech (desktop computers, peripherals etc).
I picked up my Pre on launch day and realized in the coming days this phone wasnt there yet. With some light patching, I rather love WebOS and performance is fantastic.
Hardware on the other hand would cause my friends / family / co-workers to laugh at me thinking I was making a joke if I ever tried to sell them on the Pre.
The moment has come and gone. Unless they have a trick up their sleve, then start foaming the runway, were coming in hot.
I also agree with UTEY, I doubt my phone will stay in one piece until the end of my contract. My launch day Pre was sent in to Palm on Monday from BestBuy. Hopefully I get something that is built better than my original.
Good luck to Pre Owners as well as Palm riding this thing thru the high seas ahead.
AP69
Nah, let the cloud find 4-6 people. I spent my free time creating secure desktop synch and recharging this little POS battery.Old Palm devices sold themselves. If the cloud is better, the only thing on their shelves should be stacks of backorders.
Palm needs to get purchase by another company quick. It's going to get even uglyier.
I've been waiting for AT&T to get the Pre so I can ditch my iPhone (hate the virtual keyboard, lack of multitasking and lame contacts scrollbar)- and now this!I have a family contract w/AT&T and it will be too much to switch over my kids' accounts now that Verizon is requiring data contracts w/every phone except the really crappy ones. If AT&T gets one soon, I'm on board, even if it only lasts a little while because of hardware problems or -gasp- corporate existance. Palm, please take my money! Waaahhh.
Android Central just posted that SlingPlayer is coming to Android this summer. Bub-bye Palm Pre, hello Android!
Addition of flash to webos is supposed to come with SlingPlayer as well. A potent little combo, perhaps even a valid selling point, but with no ETA, my guidance for potential Palm buyers goes elsewhere.
Woulda coulda shoulda, Jon! The fact is your weird chick advertising left people saying "wtf?" instead of "omg i must have it now"
Yes you have the superior OS. Now put it in some superior hardware (call HTC PLEAS!!!) get some decent advertising (the latest one is a good start) and sell some damn phones!
Yes, this! Exactly, sweet greggo.
It's a great OS. Truly great. I don't want to see it lose out because of marketing missteps and bad hardware decisions.
Turn it around, Palm!
I will cry if palm gets absorbed. Why can't they just produce a new phone? That's what everyone is asking for. Or, are they waiting for the holdiay season, and after the iphones release to a new phone?
They are waiting to announce a new phone on the day before the iPad is released so look for something next week. ;)
Palm has no money for a new device.
I went to a couple Verizon stores to see if they have any good info about the Pre Plus and Pixi Plus. They were so negative about the Pre, saying that it was to slow and saying that Palm App Catalog is wayless than the Droid phones. I told both of them that you guys have no clue to what your are talking about. Most Verizon stores talk mess about the Pre's. And they are always trying to get you to buy a Droid. This has really hurt Palm.
but the palm app catalog is "wayless" then the droid phones. And i tested them side by side. The droid was faster in response time.
Most people in Precentral forget that fact that the reason why Verizon is pushing the Droid is not because its a superior product than Palm, its because the DROID is Verizon's brand. And its in Verizon's best interest to sell their brand FIRST before Palm. Palm should have known this the minute they saw the Droid ads.
I don't completely. Palms marketing was TOTAL FAIL for the Pre.
Iphone (pick your version) & Droid had marketing all over the place with real clever ads. They didn't have creepy girl ads targeting the inhabitants of middle-earth.
MARKETING FOR THE PRE WAS EPIC FAIL. Lets also not forget that the hw quality is the achilles heel for word-of-mouth advertising, even for a 1st gen device.
The Droid's keyboard seems to be a common gripe of the device, but they give the option to use an on-screen keyboard that is very nice, works in landscape and portrait.
Wow, this is tough.
Palm needs a new hero/halo device but needs to have it come out soon after it is announced lest they further hinder their ability to sell the backlog of phones that are sitting in inventory.
I still think it makes sense for them to release a new hero device (bigger, hi-res screen, faster cpu, more memory) that is in ADDITION to their current Pre/Pixi lineup (rather than replacing one of them). Just like Blackberry has multiple form factors, I think Pre/Pixi are solid for the niches they serve (Pixi - entry; Pre - entry power user/midline; New device = Mercedes). Folks who initially aspire to the high-end might easily settle for Pre or Pixi instead.
Hopefully the ATT launch doesn't slip and there hasn't been word of any other new international carriers lately. Was wondering if maybe the excess inventory might mean that ATT would initially ship non-plus GSM/HDSPA Pre (also depends on the length of the Verizon Plus exclusive - rumored to be 3 mos).
Still positive to hear that work on new products (plural) is going well. Only word of caution on that, though, is that Palm has in the past considered Pre Plus and Pixi Plus to be new products versus their non-Plus predecessors. Under this logic, the GSM Pre Plus could be a new product.
2010 is going to be tough for Palm and they're going to have to handle it carefully. Hopefully, they can continue to focus on new product development, new carrier launches, and continue to shine their crown jewel, WebOS, because those are the only way they are going to make their way out of their current predicament. I still think they can do it, but they really need their next device to be amazing and their cash flow burn next quarter might border on scary.
Being acquired still remains a possibility, though any potential suitor is probably waiting to see how low they might go and see if they can swoop in and pick them up for peanuts. I find it curious that there has not been any statement issued by Elevation Partners recently - in late 2008, they were exuding great confidence in their statements about Palm. Why aren't they now? Well, we'll see if CTIA has any announcements.
"In 6 months nobody will be using an IPhone" How'd that turn out Roger? 4x's faster? Can't wait for the phone Roger was talking about to show up!
"John also talked about every Pre user going out and selling to 4 or 6 of his/her friends. (to make up for the Verizon idiots pushing Droids). So go out and sell people!
"
Listen I don't work for Palm, so don't expect me to do their job for them. They already got my money on phones, best believe they will not be getting any unpaid labor out of me. I love Palm and their phones but if the big wigs don't know how to do their jobs, well then Palm deserves to fold. Simple as that, quit jock riding Palm and believing that little things you attempt to do will actually alter the course that this company is on.
+1
It is really pathetic how badly the Pre (and webOS) marketing initially was. Yes, the latest ad is an IMPROVEMENT, but for God's sake why isn't the Pre/Pixi being marketed as better than iPhone/Droid/BB? Im talking about going out and taking shots at the things those phones CANT do that Pre/Pixi CAN do. Motorola did it with the Droid...heck even iPhone commercials showcase multitasking better than any commercial I've seen for the Pre.
I agree totally. They f**k up not us.
.
Why does everybody say HTC should make their hardware?! I would cry if that happened. Every HTC phone I had has had the worst hardware!!! I'm on my second Pre, and so far this one has been great. First onbe had a slider issue. But nothing major, I'm just a little picky. I would love to see a slab device. Made by Palm. Hopefully a summer release for Sprint?
I agree with all you guys ,palm has the best os but harware not soo good I'm on the second pre in a few months what they should have done is partner up with someone that knows how to build phones . I love palm since the beginning always had a palm device but now there is soo much competiton out there got to do things right or else ..... Good luck palm hope for the best
I just hope they don't team up with HTC. I've had horrible luck with their hardware. The best phones were the old Treos. I dropped my Treo 680 in a pool (dried it off, worked fine), off my roof (on the grass, but still), and threw it at a wall (it broke the wall!)
my treo 650 was indestructible. Chipped, dented, still worked great. Had it for 4 yrs. Got my Pre in Aug 09, never head a problem with it. I don't know what some of you do with your phones to be on 3rd or 4th. Maybe it's the user? I admit it seems a little fragile and plastic-y, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the one simple fact: The Pre ain't your mommy's feature phone. It's a mini computer, so treat it with a little repect and it will last. Ask your BB and iPhone friends. They crack the glass on the screen all the time, chip things, break things. It's not just the Pre. If you give a gorilla a mini-computer it will probably break. If you act like an adult, it will probably be just fine.
I have seven friends with Centro or Treo 650/755p. Four switched over to Pre in June 2009. All four had hardware issues. I'm sorry but the build quality is crappy. Sliders not working properly, phone jack not working, cracked screen, USB door faulty, phone resetting when you slide the phone closed, etc... these are not gorillas in the mist poking at the phone like its some strange object these are long time Palm fans who attended the Sprint training workshops for the phone...
Centro/Treo 650/755p are considered smartphones too (granted first/second generation but still smartphones). APPS...there's not enough of the business/productivity apps on the Pre that the PalmOS is known for and having to spend almost $40 bucks on an emulator ain't cutting it. There are some PalmOS folks out there still clinging to their Centro/Treo 650/680/700p/755p/Pro... Palm needs to pull a DOMINOS PIZZA approach... have a focus group of PalmOS phone users who have not purchased the Pre or Pixi and ask them why??? And then DO SOMETHING about it. They have a inventory of phones still sitting there when places like amazon and radio shack are practically giving them away... you gotta start asking yourself why these phones are not selling. I know it's a webOS love fest and everyone is slapping themselves on the back about how great webOS is (and I'm a believer)... but if you can't sell the webOS concept to the average consumer you'll slap yourselves right into the poor house(creppy girl ad, tai chi synchronized dancing ad...although MosDef ad is a 200% step up ... should have been done in January 2009 or at least January 2010... oh well can't do anything about that now).
I'm a PFF (Palm Fanatic Forever)... and when my AT&T contract ends I'm going to get one... but I know at least three PalmOS people who have opted not be early adopters and are clinging to their PalmOS devices desperately.
Come on Palm! There is untapped group of PalmOS users floating in the Palm pool with their Centro/Treo 650-700p-755p life vests on... give them a reason to cast their PalmOS phones aside and grab onto the Pre (rock solid build quality, faster processor, market directly to them, visibility of major brand business/productivity apps on webos)... and how about make a deal with devil... the developers that have highest downloads for PalmOS apps... get them in a developers pow-wow and see what would inspire them to develop webOS versions of their apps right now ...hint DataViz... and other popular apps on PalmOS software sites (palmgear, palminfo center, etc.).
...just some suggestions from a long-time PFF.
My thoughts too. WebOS is better than Android, but the Droid hardware kicks the Pre's ass. I know that some find the square shape boring, don't like the landscape keyboard, and think it's too big.
But personally, I lust after a screen that big, expandable memory and the bigger keyboard (though I use mine with no prob's). If Palm rolled out something that offers the same basic size and feature set of the Droid this summer I would gladly use my one year upgrade option and get it. I love Sprint, and as a bonus, my Dad and step-mom are Sprint customers, so I could give one of them my Pre.
I will cry if palm gets absorbed. Why can't they just produce a new phone? That's what everyone is asking for. Or, are they waiting for the holdiay season, and after the iphones release to a new phone?
I'm with ya. I have had a Palm since I was 3 years old.
No need to cry over spilled milk Jon. Start thinking fast and hard you should have till the end of this year before palm is completely out the game. I think...
It seems Palm has finally learned that raising expectations and hype are not a replacement for good decision making. Bad decisions being the lengthy Sprint exclusivity and the very strange-goofy--downright sad advertising of the last 8 months. Let's see how lower expectations (or no expectations) coupled with better devices, more carriers and the OS we've all come to love in webOS fair in the next 6 months.
I'm still optimistic for Palm only because it would appear all the bad news is likely out in the open and the product, webOS, is still the best OS on the market. Add in a future of more robust programs thanks to the new PDK available for general programming (not just 3d gaming), more carriers and hopefully better hardware and maybe, finally, the tables will begin to turn. A turn for the better this time.
I will cry if palm gets absorbed. Why can't they just produce a new phone? That's what everyone is asking for. Or, are they waiting for the holdiay season, and after the iphones release to a new phone?
Those things cost money. Money that Palm isn't exactly bringing in.
I have no problem with trying to sell Palms to 6 friends. I've been telling and showing anyone who'll listen how cool and wonderful WebOS is. I figure if I can talk then into at least checking out Palm, I've done them a favor, really. For my needs and preferences, the Pre is absolutely the best phone available.
I love WebOS. It's slick, elegant, very easy to navigate, and I love the way it handles multitasking. Having said that, it pains me to say my next phone won't be a Palm device. Why? 2 reasons...
1) Apps - Most of big names in mobile applications will probably never (or at least not for a LONG time) come out with WebOS versions of their apps. The iPhone and soon Android phones simply have the sheer numbers to justify development, WebOS just doesn't have the base to make it worthwhile. Not a judgment call, just a financial reality for an app developer.
2) Hardware - I never had any quality problems related to hardware, so I'm not complaining about that. My problem is the lack of diverse products. I like the Pre, but I would also like a WebOS option for a larger screen, maybe a model with a software keyboard...at LEAST give me expandable storage. Maybe I'll be surprised, but I don't see Palm coming out with anything but incremental design changes to the Pre/Pixi platform for a while.
WebOS (though awesome) is just too little too late. Palm sat around for YEARS watching the market leave them in the dust. I think the combo of the iPhone and Android is just too much for it this late in the game. WebOS will hang on for a few years, then ever so slowly fade away.
Just such a shame Palm didn't get it in gear sooner. :(
hey may somebody help me I can't log in in Facebook app.
have you tried the forums yet, thats what they are their for
new phones announced and flash next week don't worry!
They need apps apps and more apps. The Pre Plus coming out here in the UK won't survive unless apps turn up and going by the quality of apps at the moment for us here paid apps need to bring some very very good apps, ones which rival the apps on the iphone but it wont
Palm Foleo phone FTW
WebOS is still amazing and I couldn't see myself using any other phone for the next 5 years unless its another webos device.
GO PALM GO
I hope your Pre can last then, but from my experience, it probably won't make it to its first anniversary.
Well, today was to be expected. I, however, don't think it was the Sprint exclusive.
I was talking with a Bell store clerk. I noticed that the store had a big sign for the Pre in the front door and lots of ads in the store. I asked how the Pre was selling. He said not good. He said that they have a new data plan that they offer and with it, you get the Pre, for free, with a $10 dollar discount. Not because they love the Pre, but because they want to get rid of their stock. Too many returns. I told him I still have a release day Pre and its as solid as a rock, and he said good for you, but the build quality for other phones has been bad.
So right now, Jon has to be dealing with a) brain drain, smart people at the company might be sending out their resumes, b) lack of resources, c) bad publicity.
They must be working on WebOS 2.0. They must have been for a while. The next device that they release MUST have better build quality. The software is good. With a faster processor, and more memory, it will rock and I honestly think that they can survive. But they really have to solve the hardware problem, or else...
In fairness to Palm, the build quality on the Pre Plus seems much better than on the Pre (fewer slider problems, etc).
However, in my own experiments, the plastic front of the phone still feels 'cheap' to anyone who's held both a Droid/iPhone and a Pre Plus, and that's a difficult first impression for folks to get past. (As a developer doing mobile stuff I have an iPhone, Droid and a Pre Plus, so comparisons like that are pretty easy. "Here, play with each of these phones and tell me what you think.")
You love typing "achilles heel" don't you? :)
You know what. I got a phone (+), it does what I need it to do and most of what I want it to do (+), I am actually satisfied with it (finally).
I figure I should stop worrying about the naysayers and enjoy my device./
I would love to see a tablet/slate device running webOS. If Palm makes it with features that the iPad doesn't have (SD card reader, USB ports, Flash support, etc) and advertised it right it would sell. Since webOS is web technology it should scale to a bigger screen just like a web browser and web page does on different monitors.
I also think that they need to do some great advertising, since Verizon isn't.
Any new device should be built sturdier and have a microSD card for expandable memory.
Palm has the best OS out there with webOS, but they need to show the world why it is so great.
I show my Pre+ or my wife shows her Pixi+ and people ooh and ahh and love them. Palm needs to make commercials that show the ooh and ahh factor.
jk on the run also think Palm needs to make a tablet.
http://jkontherun.com/2010/03/18/its-time-for-a-palm-pilot-tablet/
palm doesnt need new or better hardware, they just need to figure out how to sell their product. you dont need the best product to make people think it is the best, no one here seems to know that.
Actually it's a combination of both. You can market a piece of sh** all you want, but if people are experiencing FIRST HAND build quality problems compared to the more solidly built competition it will be OBVIOUS that Palm's hardware is inferior. They DO need better hardware. Are you kidding me? It all starts with PRODUCT QUALITY first before you advertise it.
"you dont need the best product to make people think it is the best"
Yeah - if everyone was FIVE YEARS OLD. Tech savvy customers are not easily manipulated by advertisements. "BEST PRODUCT" is subjective anyways - BUILD QUALITY AND HARDWARE is OBJECTIVE.
Yeah, it's funny, just today, I was on a business call, memo pad open, out of the call, I needed to look up something on the internet, the page loads, I cut and paste some info into my calendar, and I was just loving the phone.
I love the form factor, (it's a really personal thing, but I like that it fits in one hand, and is smooth like a stone. I LOVE that.) It's solid, it multitasks like a beast, and its elegant.
Palm must be working on a new phone. They must be. I really hope it's a large screen monster with a huge battery, with a really REALLY solid build quality. It's not what I want, but if it sells really well, that means that my favourite phone will be around a while longer.
I like suger cookies.
which ones? the ones with or without frosting? Sugar cookies are awesome
For those of us that would like to see Palm bought out, be prepared for it to get really bad before that happens. More than likely, potential buyers are waiting until after the coming bankruptsy and Palm has unloaded their debt, unless someone really desparately needs a new OS.
Pre would have done better than Droid if it:
...was faster!
...didn't take a year for video recording ability
...had Flash support
...didn't "Oreo"
...didn't take 30+ seconds to recognize taps on frequent occasion
Anybody else feel like adding any more?
Don't get me wrong here I am definitely not bashing the Pre. It's the best phone I've ever owned even with all of it's quirks(see short list above).
This phone does everything and more than I could want in a phone/pda/micro-pc package(I love you OpenSSH).
Evol
I agree. New device nice, but push old device first. Although, half to admit, my Pre is cracked by the on button and is also cracked on the left side of the phone. Those were 3 foot drops mind you. I barely dropped it. 5 drops since owning it and it looks like i've had it for 2 years. Kinda wish the front face was replaceable. That would allow for better customization, forgivable build quality, and smaller return rate.... Correction of Errors for ya palm!
1. Patch it to 800mhz
2. Palm did it quicker than Iphone
3. What phone actually has true flash yet?
4. Oreo sucks, but stop messing with it. Don't pick your scabs and it won't bleed...
5. Once, again.... Patch it.
The beauty of WebOS is that 99% of issues are patchable.
1.1 I could also cook a hotdog on my Pre at the same time, Yipee! Who's got the mustard?
2.1 Who cares about iPhones because I sure don't; we're talking about the Pre
3.1 I'd settle for Flash Lite and that's already on a ton of phones
4.1 Maybe with a few well place spots of super glue I can turn it into a touch screen only Pre. Using the phone in a way that it was meant to be used is considered 'messing with it'? So you are recommending that I don't ever use the keyboard? I would like to point out that that was a rhetorical question.
5.1 I'm hoping you are referring to some, up until this point what I thought was mythical, GPU enabling patch. Please point me in it's direction.
I'd have to disagree, I bet it's more along the lines 92.53723% of issues are patchable.
Evol
Dang bro, chill. 800mhz patch speeds the crap out of the phone's GUI. And my comment about not messing with the oreo was that it's not really noticeable unless you are actually twisting the darn thing. In fact, in the open position the screen is nearly solid. Now, if you don't want people making responses that are actually condusive to good conversation then don't make comments. Try not to over react next time.
Patch it. Lol.
Verizon Salesman: Now this device doesn't seem as fast as the Droid, but don't worry all you have to do is patch it. Here I'll get you the URL to the site that has the instructions.
Customer: Whats a URL?
Bottom Line: Aftermarket mods will never drive mainstream sales. If the device leaves the store slow, it is slow. This fact is even stronger with WebOS devices, since they are usually a better fit for more casual smartphone users, compared to a typical techie Android user. (I said "usually" and "typical" which aren't absolutes).
"Palm CEO: Pre would have done better than Droid if it launched first"
Uhh NO FRACKING DUUUH!
Sorry for that vent but Ive been saying this for their Verizon long before we knew it was comming.
The next big race will be to get the first 4G phone on Sprint now. Seriously Palm cancel all the vacations, dont lay off peeps yet, and put it to overtime cause its do or die. Seriously!
Once you hit the bottom, there's nowhere to go but up.
I doubt it. The reason why the Droid sells is because guys eat up that Droid DOES advertising like hotcakes. Palm would have ended up in the same position it's in now, just two months late.
I will cry if palm gets absorbed. Why can't they just produce a new phone? That's what everyone is asking for. Or, are they waiting for the holdiay season, and after the iphones release to a new phone?
how do you people continually manage to break your phones? The phone is not that damned flimsy. None of my friends have managed to break their pres once, let alone repeatedly. Enjoy the phone and don't worry about what you think others think.
Well, I'm on my third, but both incidents were my own damn fault. First one got run over by a bus, second was stepped on and got cracked. Aside from those instances, the hardware's been mostly rock-solid for me (albeit for a little twisting, but not as major as the Oreo Effect).
The fact that I'm running lighttpd and serving a php gallery of the photos and videos I take speaks volumes to my hacker friends. My next mission is to get a TinyMUD and IRC server running on it.
"Where's your server hosted?"
"In my pocket."
phone 1 - started losing network & had to reboot to use (in high signal areas) & battery drained like crazy.
phone 2 - touch screen stopped working.
phone 3 - still going (3 mo later)... I did drop it the other day and my Skinomi worked fantastic!
I love absolutely webOS, but if this one breaks & nothing new with a decent build quality comes along, I'll have to move on when my wife & I are eligible for upgrades in June.
I talked a friend into sprint, because it saves her $30/mo on a better plan... & I was a bit relieved to see her with a Hero. I was afraid a pre would ruin her experience & I would be at fault!
there going to announce new phones and flash next week trust me and stop freakin out
source?
bingo! Biggest mistake was starting out on Sprint. Not to offend anyone here, but Verizon was waiting a LONG time for a good pda phone and certainly has a much larger customer base. He's exactly right that if he launched it first on Verizon before Android, the Pre would have been much more successful.
I'm still on my original pre from launch and it's working great
just saw new palm commercial during nba game. It's crap. They don't ever actually show the phone. Hey palm, you've got to be more direct.
I agree, it may look much better than previous ones BUT it still DOESN'T tell me why should I buy it! so again it is a WASTE of money!!! the things the woman does while working mean NOTHING to people who are not familiar with the phone. Specially when they dont even say what is she doing.
"were making great progress on future products" jon rubinstien
I have faith in palm, and it seems they have faith in themselves. I find it admirable, but now is as good a time as any to start making the right moves. palm knows what they need to do, I think it's just a matter of execution now.
palm is the underdog here. They have the potential to really burst out of the woodworks & take this smartphone business by the cajones. i'm hoping for a comeback, which they have done before.
when the going gets tough, the tough get going. kick some ass palm it's time for change.
The Pre would have sold like hotcakes if:
-Slate Device
-It wasnt GIRLY looking
-Rock solid hardware
-Better Marketing
WebOS will save them. They will announce a new ROCK SOLID phone very soon and people will start paying attention. IMO.
A co-worker today said why do you have a girls phone?
It is all how the phone is percieved. The Droid is percieved as a great phone, being just an ok phone. The Pre is percieved as a mediocre phone, being a fantastic phone. People are too shallow to give it a try. If their first impression isnt great, they think to themselves, even if I think it is cool my friends might not. I dont think Palm thought about how shallow and weak the general public is, when coming up with thier hardware. They thought about how they could make the most functional/usable piece of hardware.
Its like choosing whether to date the hot girl with no skills or the ugly girl with a great personality.
Most people will choose the first.
WOAH, the doom and gloom is back! Yea! Seriously, I think there are paid trolls here whose job is to complain about something about Palm every day. Checking out the Microsoft YouTube ad, it was all too clear that most of the posts were by moles. They all said the advertising was great when in fact it's total crap. Well we have the reverse here. We have people paid to demoralize webOS users. It's just part of a wider smear and marketing campaign. It's been done before.
Many of the criticisms on this site and others don't even make sense. If the troll claiming to drop Palm reall had had a Palm phone, they would know about copy and paste or about upgrade X that fixed a bug and so on. The fact that the trolls are continually misinformed and always ready to throw a fit shows their real colors. They are not webOS users. They are just here to crap on Palm and discourage people from buying their products.
Now to the good news. I'm not worried one bit for Palm. They didn't execute perfectly, but they will now. They have no choice. webOS will be one of the major mobile OS in a few years. There's a shaken up right now. The OS is too good to just die.
What the analysts are doing is helping their buddies grab Palm for a buck. They want to make a hostile take over easy to perform.
Yes I agree...have to be trolls...who else has this much free time.
I'm completely amazed by all the Windows Phone 7 hype and motivation...I guess Windows Mobile has sucked for so long that they can only go up, but no multitasking, no copy and paste, yikes what a mistake. I have no clue why Blackberry still exists in the smartphone arena...do those users even look at what they are buying before they spend money. I've heard BB has great messaging, but what else do they have to keep me awake?
I'm not worried about webOS, it will live on for a long while, but Palm is a share holder business and has to be clear about every step it takes. Thankfully, they are finally moving in the right direction and people are beginning to notice. The Pre Plus was a excellent move and all 3 carriers will have them sooner then later.
I'd love a Pre Pad, 7"+ screen, webcam, extra storage, expansion, virtual keyboard, remote interface hub, and yes they should trump iPad adding native Linux OS with webOS frontend. Linux OS can definitely say it has an app for that...
Keep it coming Palm!!! Sorli...
Unsold stocks? NOT A PROBLEM!
Sell to Asia-Pacific NOW!
I am really sad about this phone...I LOVE it I have had it since day one. NOT ONE freaking problem. now we have the supersonic, storm 3 and nexus one to deal with. marketing screwed us and Palm
More and more, it seems time to exclaim, "UNCLE" and move on from Palm. I love this phone and the OS is simply amazing - much better than iPhoneOS or even Android.
At this point, Palm should start marketing itself, find a buyer right quick. If they want to make a hail Mary, get with HTC and design a Nexus1/Supersonic-esque device running WebOS.
If that doesn't sell, I don't know what will.
I think that even if Palm did go under, the WebOS internals and Homebrew community will support it for a long, long time. Palm has at least a year until we know where they'll stand in the end. That means at least 3 good years of support through Palm and devs combined. This all, of course, assuming Palm is destined to go under. I really doubt it though. This is just doomsday talk.
I concur.
But Palm Marketing better pick it up with comparisons to webOS & the Russian Roulette that IS Android.
If they just released microphone APIs... every negative thing ever said about Palm would virtually disappear over night. Once sales reps are eventually informed, thru word of mouth, that webOS has (a) voice memo apps, (b) call recording apps, (c) voip apps, (d) T-Pain apps, etc... THE SALES REPS WOULD CLEARLY FIND IT EASIER TO SELL A webOS PHONE TO MORE CUSTOMERS.
This isn't rocket science.
But I'm thinking there's a conspiracy against mic APIs or something. There's NO REASON Palm should be waiting for one, single Android phone to come out with apps that use the microphone before they get started on it.
GET WITH THE PROGRAM PALM!!!
Disagree. Software developers won't continue to spend time on a dead platform. At least not those that hope to make money. They'll be off in search of a platform that's growig, not dying.
Look at the P-OS software market. There are still a ton of Treos out there, being used every day, but I haven't seen a new piece of software or significant update since the Pre was announced.
I can't believe some of the shit on here.
did anyone do any reseach on this phone before they bought it? I know I did and I'm satisfied with what I have because I knew what I was buying.
all I'm hearing is:
waaaaaa!!!!
I hate my pre because Palm is broke.
stfu
good, go get a droid or an iphone. I'm sure these folks will be on those phone's forums crying about something new.
i'll still be here, enjoying me pre plus.
it'll just be better because I won't have to listen to the negative crying.
I can't believe some of the shit on here.
did anyone do any reseach on this phone before they bought it? I know I did and I'm satisfied with what I have because I knew what I was buying.
all I'm hearing is:
waaaaaa!!!!
I hate my pre because Palm is broke.
stfu
good, go get a droid or an iphone. I'm sure these folks will be on those phone's forums crying about something new.
i'll still be here, enjoying me pre plus.
it'll just be better because I won't have to listen to the negative crying.
I can't believe some of the shit on here.
did anyone do any reseach on this phone before they bought it? I know I did and I'm satisfied with what I have because I knew what I was buying.
all I'm hearing is:
waaaaaa!!!!
I hate my pre because Palm is broke.
stfu
good, go get a droid or an iphone. I'm sure these folks will be on those phone's forums crying about something new.
i'll still be here, enjoying me pre plus.
it'll just be better because I won't have to listen to the negative crying.
I can't believe some of the shit on here.
did anyone do any reseach on this phone before they bought it? I know I did and I'm satisfied with what I have because I knew what I was buying.
all I'm hearing is:
waaaaaa!!!!
I hate my pre because Palm is broke.
stfu
good, go get a droid or an iphone. I'm sure these folks will be on those phone's forums crying about something new.
i'll still be here, enjoying me pre plus.
it'll just be better because I won't have to listen to the negative crying.
"enjoying ME Pre Plus"? WTF did you learn English?
You'd better hope not too many people take your advice. Because if too many Pre owners, or potential owners, go get a Droid Palm will be gone, and so will upgrades, support, and any new apps for your phone.
There will always be crying, begging, praising, trolling here but I love it. I visit this site about 20x a day, spamming to see what news pops up.
I love my Pre and I can't see my self using any other phone. I hate Apple so I was waiting for an iphone killer! Pre is it. I agree that some of the mistakes that Palm had and still have could've been avoided if they only looked at some of the phones out there (iphone) (hint hint Mr. Rubinstein) to see what basics a phone should have and ad to it, make it better. Like the so delayed (video) feature, among other features. Oh well we'll see where palm is heading. As for me I'm using my phone and loving it.
Would any company that actually bought out Palm ever do anything with WebOS, or would they just shelve it and gut out the IP?
Have to comment !
Palm has certainly dropped the ball with the marketing with Pre, however I would say its more in the post release of the device, was the initial campaign weird ?.... It wasn't great but everyone was talking about it so I guess it did its job, did it convert into lots of sales ? not as much as it could have, the device and OS is head and shoulders above all devices out there ! Its a pity....c'mon Palm !
As a new Pre(O2 De in South Africa) owner (physicaly now, I have mentaly owned a Pre since release) I have to say the hardware is dissapointing and you feel that you are constantly looking after your device (its high maintenance) which is a new concept to me as I am so used to the rugged Treo650,680 Centro build which was certainly far more durable than the Pre.
I look forward to the future of Palm and they have mentioned being in for the long haul, so the ups and downs require we loyal Palm Followers to be calm collected and supportive of the comapany and products we enjoy !
Go Team Palm!
I was thinking the other day, the Palm pre has been out for a year. Other than the iPhone and different blackberry models, how many phones release and a year later they are still the flagship phone for that company?
if it hasn't happened for palm with the pre yet, Its not gonna happen. A lot of things has happened since the Pre has been release. For one, phones just have bigger screens now. 3.5 is the minimal standard for a companies flagship phone these days.
I mean I love my pre, and there are a lot of people out there that love their pre but we have to face it. nothing other than introducing a new handset will help. How is releasing on Verizon after the droid gonna help? how is releasing on att while there is still an iPhone gonna help? and to make matters worse, the nexus one will be on every carrier here in a few months and compared to the Nexus One, the pre is old news...last years news...literally.
everyone wants to blame marketing this and that but when every carrier has better, more popular phones and you try to push a year old phone...its just not gonna work. palm is trying to pretend they have an iPhone but in all honesty...they don't. they have a year old second tier phone....they have a Verizon voyager, an Samsung instinct, a lg envy...not a droid, iphone, or nexus one
"For one, phones just have bigger screens now. 3.5 is the minimal standard for a companies flagship phone these days."
and more important, the resolution is higher. so the fonts e.g. are looking better than on the pre.
forgetabbout palm it is until the end
One cannot despise the OS, it's great. The Hardware isn't outdated, it's on par. Build quality is point. That is a result of hardware quality control. Now palm has learned their lesson I hope and will come out with a device that makes the others look like donkeys...
And I just hope it doesn't take them another year to get on carriers around the world...it shouldn't be that hard?
And for marketing? Define your target group people! It's certainly not mum...at least mum would go nuts over the maintanance of this phone.
I hope Palm survives because every day I like my Pre more and more. I was a Sony clie TH 55 fan and still have it but slowly everything is migrating to Pre. I would like a better keyboard, slightly bigger screen, better build quality and bluetooth support for an external. But everytime I look at another phone I think my Pre has it beat. The only worry I have is the longevity of the company.
I had a Pre from launch until last week. I left sprint due to their customer service not coverage. I get great coverage with both Sprint and VZ. There are things I miss about Pre, the way it handled notifications, swiping to close, cards. The things i don't miss is the lag, frequent reboots to get it to work properly,and a lot of other small things. In the week or so I have had my Droid I like it a lot, the hardware is 1000% better than the Pre, I love home screens and widgets, I like Android OS, it is crisp and responsive on my Droid.
I do wish the my Droid would handle multi tasking more like the Pre, although i like Pre's notification system, I also like Droids. At the end of the day they are both good phones and OS. I wish I could I could mix and match their best features, then i think you would have the best smartphone on the market. Pre's major short falling is hardware and sometimes performance, which is a shame it is a awesome OS.
The problem with the Pre is not the Droid, it's the hardware.
I love my Pre. The Droid form factor isn't for me. It's totally personal, but I hate the sideway sliding keypad.
What I want is the next Palm device. I want it to be solid. I want it to have great hardware, and great software.
I have no idea what's happening in Jon's office, but I hope they're getting close.
im w/ you 100% on this.. if palm would just joing w/ HTC they could build an awesome device running webos...
Keep up the good work. I could not have said it better!
Bola | gadget
Rubenstein is clearly living in a fantasy world. The Pre needs to go a long way to offer the features and capabilities, and capture the buzz, of the Android phones. The Pre offers a slicker user interface, without question. But it still, close to a year after it's introduction, lacks features and capabilities that were available in Android 1.5 and 1.6, to say nothing of 2.1.
If Rubenstein is this blind to reality, it doesn't bode well for Palm ever catching up.
well he has never used an iphone so what can u expect?... I guess he hasnt used android either
It all came down to piss poor marketing and he has just admitted it. BYE BYE PALM!
Partnerships aren't to be scoffed at.
Especially ones with telecom outfits.
But Palm wouldn't know shit about business sense.
How hard is it to say..
"Let's do lunch!"
???
Seriously.
I had the Palm Pre for a six months and after having gone through three of them, Sprint was kind enough to let me get a 2-year upgrade price on a Samsung Moment. The Moment has awful battery life but the Android market is much better and many of the apps I had to buy for my Pre are free for my Moment.
The other reasons I gave up on the Pre are as follows:
1) Cell radio would shut off for no reason during my commute (50 miles along the NYS Thruway).
2) Speakerphone wouldn't work from time to time.
3) Application crashes requiring a full restart of the phone (both 1.3 and 1.4 versions of WebOS) (specifically accelerometer based games like "Labyrinth Lite").
I don't think a new device will be released until they sell off a good portion of the inventory that the carriers already have/ordered. How would Palm get the carriers to order a million more of their phones if they still have millions sitting on their shelves?
Palm is screwed if they can't sell off the Pre's and Pixi's. They should start giving them away at this point just so they could get new and improved hardware out there.
Novel thought: Take the GSM inventory (I'm guessing there's a lot of unsold units in the UK), unlock them and sell them directly on the regional Palm websites + warranty (palm.com, palm.com/ca, palm.com/au , etc...).
No carrier contracts required / no cash to develop or buy new units, etc...
Isn't this mainly about getting more units out there so people see what WebOS can do?
I'm guessing it isn't that easy, but, the way I see it: Palm keeps shooting itself in the foot: there are Palm fiends around the world that either can't get the device easily (eBay =no warranty) or they don't want to lock themselves to a CDMA carrier + contract.
From a technical standpoint Palm is in real trouble. The inventory is a serious issue and is preventing future sales of Pre and Pixi and very likely preventing future sales of future devices.
I suspect Sprint will get new hardware this summer as planned. I doubt they have the inventory issues that Verizon has due to the earlier product cycle. Sprint will not order order phones this quarter (which is why Palm is projecting less than $150M in sales) but Q1 2011 this summer will likely see something new.
Verizon - on the other hand - is probably not getting anything till Q2 2011 which is very very bad.
On top of this ATT is probably not getting the Pre or the Pixi. They are probably getting something else now which is why they are pushed out past the current quarter to who knows when.
This really really sucks for Palm. They are running short on cash and the prospects are not good long term.
The problem is that nearly very Verizon rep has the Droid because it came out first. They jumped on the bandwagon after years of Blackberry and they simply fell in love with a fresh piece of meat. They sell what they know and what they know is Droid and Blackberry, they know squat about WebOS. The ones who do know about WebOS love the phone and I can see why they would love the phone. The problem is that people who use the Pre/Pixi are mainly casual users...if you know how to use the phone to to its full potential then you would not want to go to any other device. There are so many shortcuts that it is ridiculous how seamlessly fast I can move around on my phone. I'm tired about the app catalog issue, stop complaining about it. It's funny how you can slap an "app" label on a link to website and people will call it a must-have app. There's a thing called the web browser and you can "add to launcher" any website...ta-da your very own espn mobile app. People tend to forget that Android has been around for sometime now and it was not until recently that it really took off. Anybody remember the crappy G1 that was supposed to be the iPhone killer though its 3G sucks more than AT&T. Basically Palm was right, it launched too late and now the Verizon reps are stuck with the Droid as their work phones for at least one year. I wouldn't say that Palm is in trouble just yet, WebOS is the gem of the mobile OS industry and when was the last time you saw a person with a pocket full of diamonds go broke?
palm is taking advantage in nowadays electronic market anyway, soon I'll be able to order research paper just everywhere from my palm