Palm Facebook: 'Hold it any way you like' 84
by Robert Werlinger Mon, 19 Jul 2010 4:42 pm EDT
A good number of companies have been busy getting their shots in at Apple over the antenna fiasco such as RIM, Samsung, HTC, and Nokia, and many folks from the SPE Network. Now Palm is following suite in a more... subtle way.
Meanwhile, for a good take on how Apple is changing the conversation about the 'Deathgrip,' see Rene Ritchie's editorial on the subject. Daring Fireball also linked to this Palm Pre Deathgrip YouTube video - though to be fair signal was already pretty poor in that example. Have you experienced 'Deathgrip' with the Pre?
Source: Palm's Facebook page; thanks to Manuel for the tip!
84 Comments
NO "Deathgrip" for me :-)
Apple thanks you for the poll. You've confirmed that Palm does indeed suffer from this issue.
Carry on..
Uhhh, sort of. You can't touch the Pre with one finger and make it lose signal. But yes, of course, every phone has an antenna and if you block it sufficiently well it will lose signal.
Steve Jobs successfully diverted attention from a profound loss of signal from a single finger touch on the iPhone 4 to a minor fact of nature for all phones, as others have said.
"Nope, not at all, NO. 83.6% (3,517 votes)"
How so???
I just wasted my time trying to lose signal, no longer impartial towards Apple bashing! To blame the user's grip is also to blaem the user for purchasing the product!
I tried and could not lose signal. At some points in gripping my Palm phone the EV icon lit up as to say "Whaat!"! I've owned this phone* since it went on market and I haven't noticed signal loss by my body(use).
*OK, so this is my 2nd Pre, the first I fried the CPU.
Subtle, yet targeted. I love it. Little stabs at Apple (like iTunes syncing) make me happy.
How about better hardware instead?
That too would make me happy. I'm pretty confident that Palm will hook us up with something new and awesome before the end of the year. I really don't want to go to Android, but I could definitely use some new hardware.
I saw the video. It's BS. If you have miniscule signal in the first place, then you cover the entire phone with your hand, obviously it's going to lose all if not most service. Try starting the video with full 5 bars and then dropping down to 1 or 0. Then I'll believe it (at MillahTime's youtube joke).
Hurray for Palm!
I have tried to hold my Pre+ in different ways to try to get a signal drop and I can not do it. I had both hands on the phone covering every single part of the sides and the back and still couldn't affect the signal.
I actually get better reception with my Pre+ (Verizon) than I did with my Verizon Centro or with my other Verizon phones. I typically have the best reception on a smartphone (along with my Droid friends). At the EMS training facility I teach at, most the iPhones have very poor reception while us Verizon types are at full signal.
Long live HP/Palm and Verizon.
Happens to me with Palm Pre Plus on Verizon approx. 20 miles South of Chattanooga. 3-4 bars @ best @ home, hold the phone a certain way, the bars dropped to 0-1. N of 1 , I know, but it's how it is for me. Never happened with my Treo 700p.
what's a "deathgrip"? I've never seen such. It must be a wonderful thing like unicorns.
It's part of Apples magic.
It's when Jean Claude Van Damme screams in agony, while going through flashbacks and then he gets pissed off and kicks Chong Li's ass with his 'deathgrip'.
....Oh, it messes up iPhones too.
Being a bluetooth guy, I rarely hold phone to make calls and could not reproduce with the way I normally hold my Sprint pre. However after watching video and holding it as shown in video, I could get it to drop from 5 to 3 bars. Note: drop is not instantaneous, you have to wait several seconds for it to drop and recover but it is reproducible.
Lame poll. Why leave out other carriers, like Bell (which I am on) or O2, etc? Is this website exclusively American?
Anyways, I'm betting the ~85% of people who voted NO haven't actually really tried this, because not even Palm has figured out a way around the laws of Physics.
That's the point, if you have to try to make your phone lose signal by holding it in ways you'll never do naturally, then it's not really a design problem. However, if touching a small area on the outside casing while holding the phone naturally makes it lose signal and drop the call, then it clearly is a design problem.
Sorry the polling didn't include everybody, but you didn't say if you could replicate the problem. Did it effect your Pre?
I am one of the 85% who said they could not duplicate the problem & guess what, I COULD NOT DUPLICATE THE PROBLEM. I did try the death grip & I tried about 3 different types of death grip & I never lost a single bar of the 3 bars I had.
You shouldn't make assumptions about others actions before asking them. I was truly interested to see if I could get the Pre to lose a signal--even in a way I would never hold the phone. Apple's problem is it happens in a way people actually hold the phone in the course of a conversation. It obviously hasn't hurt sales, but I wouldn't buy the phone until the problem was fixed. As many other thing the iPhone may do, it is STILL a phone.
"Lame poll. Why leave out other carriers, like Bell (which I am on) or O2, etc? Is this website exclusively American?"
either its a) inexplicable ignorance, b) they try to imitate the foolish-as-hell behavior of palm or c) CDMA network related.
lets hope its c), but i'm not sure...
I can understand why you'd be confused by this, because Palm has done everything it can to muddy the waters (and frankly, Precentral is feeding into it by posting "Can you replicate the death grip?" polls), but this is not just about the laws of physics. It's about a bad design decision by Apple.
See, everyone knows it's possible to block the signal of a cell phone. If it wasn't, you wouldn't see any difference in your signal when you went into a tunnel. If you shove any phone up your ass, you're going to get a weaker signal. (Kids, don't try this at home... ;))
The problem with the iPhone 4 is that you can hold the phone in a completely natural way (at least, for a lefty) and get the signal to drop like a rock, because of a conscious design decision that they didn't have to make -- and that other cell phone manufacturers had the sense not to make (by insulating their antennae).
There is a big difference between a death grip, and being able to disable a phones antenna by touching it with one finger. Apple has successfully fleeced everyone and turned there design failure into every manufacturers problem. I have yet to see anyone reproduce the signal drop with a single finger on any phone other than an iPhone 4. The iPhones problem is its alone.
I agree! I tried several different grips on my pre plus and could not change the signal strength but I did change it by pointing the phone in different directions.
Any one who knows anything about radio antennas knows that if you touch the antenna with another conductor it changes the attenuation and only one finger can do it. I could not touch the palm pre antenna without removing the back.
...and THAT my friends is Jobs "RDF" at it's finest. He has successfully managed to divert the attention from Apple to everyone else. The Force is strong with that one.
(still I have to chuckle at the fact the i4 now comes with a case. Aww to bad they have to cover the "ooh shinies" design of the phone.)
Worst poll, why would it matter what network you're on... surely the only factor might be how good the network coverage is in your area. (Forgetting Europe, Canada and Mexico, nice!)
I see apple fanboys are out in droves to defend apple.
what a bunch of losers.
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. There are plenty of Palm fanboys...
Well, this is a Palm blog, what else did you expect?
Perhaps, but with all of the hardware problems the Pre has had, I don't think fanboys have any room to talk. I am waiting on the shipment of my second Pre this week. Mine developed white spots in the screen and when it get hot, they turn yellow...
I see others on their 3rd, 4th, 5th and even 6th Pre... 6 Pres? Really?
I'm on my 4th Pre, which is working perfectly because it's not a factory refurb. I'm not pissed I've gone through so many of them because I went through at LEAST five of each of the three versions of iPhone's I've owned. First gen through 3GS..
*rolls eyes*
i squeeze my palm pre hard and cover the hole phone ,but there is no death grip :D problems
If I hold the bottom of my Pre, and not even hard, I will lose some service. If I "death grip" it, I can kill the bars completely. Granted I never hold the phone like that but my phone is in no way immune.
For any of you claiming you can't get the signal to decline TRY THIS:
The antenna is in the bottom half of the phone, so cup the back of the bottom half of the phone with your left hand completely. With your right hand, cover up the front and cup your hands tightly. Within 30 seconds, you will see the bars drop. I went from 5 bars on my Sprint Pre to 1 and back up again when I uncovered everything.
Now, this in no way recreates real world use, but you ABSOLUTELY CAN do impede the antenna and it's not hard to do.
Regardless, Apple sucks oranges.
You're right. I went from 3 bars to none with your test.
Something else I tried. I took off the back battery cover and tried to bridge the various antennas with my fingers. There was no noticeable impact with this method.
I did go from 3 bars to 2 bars w/your test. I did not lose the signal completely & as you said, I would never hold the phone like this in the course of normal usage.
Though it is not hurting sales, I think Apple & Steve Jobs in his "rebuttal" actually lost credibility. I know they did in my eyes & I own 2 MAC computers.
I tried to reproduce this while on Roam Only and getting 5 bars on Verizons network, and it didn't budge. On Sprint, it jumped around like crazy.
I can reproduce this in my strong sprint area, but I have to try really hard, and it'll lose one sometimes two bars. I never squeeze my phone that hard, but perhaps wile I'm on a call? Idk
DeathGrip? Hell I have DeathService. Thanks Sprint.
I tried this on my phone and I think having so many fingers touching the screen confused the heck out of it. It caused the screen to crash and then the phone rebooted.
This brings a whole new meaning to "death grip".
As for reception, yeah it dropped a bit but nobody holds their phone like that.
OMG my phone gets no reception when I put it in a Faraday cage!!!
lol...who the hell holds a phone like that anyway??
in no way am I defending it, but the iCrap 4 is just like any other 1st gen phone (or any electronic device)...it has it's flaws. What makes it so good is that it's...well...Apple! Jesus may have been perfect, but the 'Jesus' phone is NOT!
and just for the record...it don't take much to lose a GSM signal.
Uh... the iPhone FOUR is a FOURTH-gen device. In its fourth iteration, Apple managed to introduce a brand new flaw to hammer out.
Exactly, and how many people will line up to buy the "even more magical" iPhone 4 version 2.0? Apple always releases crappy first shipments of its portable products, so they can fix them with the next shipment and have everyone falling all over themselves to get the "better than ever" new product. You'd think they'd have people testing their products before they're released. I guess that poor engineer who left his in that bar didn't get around to making any phone calls before he lost it.
I agree. Palm releases 1.4.5 with a PDK jail bug that seems to have been caught by the users immediately. Apple releases an iFauxn with an antenna design flaw caught by the users immediately.
Who tests these products? How about employing something known as Beta testing?
Well the main difference is that the iPhone 4 is NOT a 1st gen phone. This is their 4th generation of the iPhone I believe since their "3G" was their 2nd generation and 3GS was their 3rd generation. It's sad they could make a novice mistake in their 4th generation design.
I made it happen on the Pre but was much easier on the Blackberry Tour... it happens. In Apple's case, it happens easier and more dramatically... if it had been on any other phone like an HTC, the blogs wouldn't have made as big of a deal of it...
I remember a time when all antennas were on the outside of the phone... from a long antenna to a nub to nothing... I remember cordless phone antennas so long they could be used like swords...
I have had a couple friends ask me about if its possible to death grip a Palm Pre and from what i have seen its really not possible.
No matter how many bars I have to start with if I totally cover it with both hands I cant seem to get it to drop any bars.
Taking it to the next level I have taken the back cover off and touched all three antenna with the flesh of my hands at the same time and can, at most, get it to drop only one bar.
I would say there is nothing to complain about here.
I tried hard but all I could do was move from 3 bars to 2.
I can make the Wifi bars go down by holding it a certain way, but can't make the cell bars move.
I believe the issue with the iFauxn 4 is that the antennae are exposed and in contact with the hand. Just like the GLASS back of the phone to match the GLASS front, I seriously question Apple's decision to go with style over function.
If I put my phone in the freezer, it drops down to zero bars!! How often do you use your phone in the freezer?
The poll could do with options for non-US Palm users . . . . .
With my Bell Palm Pre I can't tell if I'm losing signal due to the death grip or just cause their signal sucks at my house. I wish we could get an HSPA Pre so I could use it on Bell's HSPA network instead of the CDMA one.
I tried holding my phone every possible way and I actually was able to get all bars. But as soon as I let go and started using it in the way I usually do, it went down to two bars. Lmao! Now it's in between 2 & 3 and than jumps to all 5 and back down to 2! Haha. Funny. But the "deathgrip" didn't make me lose signal. Made me gain some. I have a Sprint Pre. Haha.
Lots of phones suffer from the DeathGrip. So what. That's never what this was about.
Merely touching the iPhone 4 in the wrong spot causes it to lose signal. Can that be replicated with even one other phone? So far, I haven't heard about any others suffering from the iPhone Touch Of Death.
After MANY attempts, I was finally able to replicate the "death grip", but I had to use 2 hands. I have Sprint had 1 bar with EV and was able to go to 1X by using one hand and my left hand holding over the top of the phone. I was only able to drop from 1 bar to zero bars once, and that was by using 2 hands wrapped around the whole phone.
Remove the back of your pre and touch the antenna.
The video is BS anyway. Does anyone's Pre actually keep a constant signal strength for more than three minutes? Mine's goes up and down a bar or two just sitting in place.
Correct me if I'm wrong Sprint Pre owners, I have VZW, but does your Sprint phone still use the "EV" logo? For some reason I thought everyone switched to showing "3G" with 1.4.
Yeah, it does, but there's a patch to make it say 3G instead that I use.
I can drop signals if I walk into thick metal boxes (usually elevators). Or if I remove the battery I guess.. but we can't compare that to Apple since they don't let users swap their batteries...
Palm's FB page also now says (Hello PreCentral friends!). Too cute!
I wanted to 'like' that, but you can't.
Mine seems to jump around on its own, regardless of how I hold it. Sometimes it will lose EVDO and drop to 1x randomly, and wont come back until after a restart.
The Pre on Sprint has some pretty serious issues with the way it handles the signal, and Palm shouldn't be so quick to boast. The iPhone 4 makes the Pre look like a joke.
I don't think this relates to a Pre anyway. The bars are weird, they are like on-demand. They drop when there is no demand, but rise when it is pulling data. One of the first things I tell people is ignore the bars. If it doesn't drop calls or data we are good. Mine doesn't anywhere near other phones do. So I vote No.
Funny thing... I've actually found that by holding my Sprint Pre certain ways I can improve reception in low signal areas (compared to letting it sit in the open).
Seems backwards, but I've been able to reproduce the effect in specific low signal areas every time. Noticed it months ago.
Mine dropped, but we're trying to make it drop...
The Pre almost totally plastic, it would be very difficult to replicate the death grip, since the antenna is not around the edges as is the case with the Iphone, nor is it metal as is the Iphone. The cheap plastic of what the Pre is made of, serves the same function as the bumper cases Apple would be giving to Iphone customers. IMHO.. HAHA
the day that palm hp comes with new hardware i'll go camp really early so i can get that new sweet baby
i held my pre just like the yahoo in the video and i got MORE bars went from 2 to full. so thank you for a video that shows me how to get more bars.
Ha. Same happens for me when I cup the bottom of the phone with weak signal. Weirdest thing!
Yes, if I grip my Pre tightly with my wrist covering most left side, it drops from five bars to three. But that's hardly a death grip. And it's hardly the one-finger "death touch" I've seen demonstrated with the iPhone 4.
I can duplicate it, but I would never hold my phone like that - unless it was replicating this test. I do not lose any bars when I hold it normally.
Besides I have had the Pre for well over a year now. New Hardware Please!!!!!
I voted NO. To be clear I can use the deathgrip (wrap my hand completely around the base of the device) and see 2-3 bars less signal, but it in no way affects my call. In the last 3 years with Sprint I can count my dropped calls on one hand, I have been very pleased with my service.
Sanyo Katana 6600
Samsung Upstage M620
LG Rumor LX260
Samsung Rant M540
Palm Pre
These are my devices since Dec '06
normally i get 1 bar at best in my home. with death grip i actually saw number 2 light up a couple of times...eenteresting!
I managed to get a deathgrip on my VZW pre plus but only after a lot of messing around and I'm not even sure it counts since I can't even physically make a call on my pre while holding it that way (I have to wrap my fingers around the front of the phone so the back is totally flush in my palm(no pun intended)). I went from 5 bars down to 2 btw.
My service has always fluctuated between 3 and 5 bars, so when I tried this I was shocked when I dropped to 1 bar. I then tried to replicate it multiple times and nothing happened.
I currently have 1 bar and evdo just like the video. I did the "deathgrip" the way the video showed and lost absolutely no signal strength. I then even tried to wrap the whole Pre up in two hands, and lost no signal strength. Hand if someone trying to loose a signal with a "deathgrip" that is a bit different the holding on to a phone normal and dropping a call. But at any rate not loss of signal for me. I have tried before I seen this video after the apple news came out and have never lost signal.
Sorry for those that do....
I voted 'puppy' as I'm on o2 ;) If I wrap the phone in both hands I can make it lose a bar (4 down to 3). Cellular signal loss due to your hands is nothing new. But most companies design around it... ;)
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Why limit the poll to the Pre? Has anyone else noticed that the so-called "death grip" covers the microphone hole on the Pixi? Why hasn't there been more outrage over that design flaw? I demand a recall!?
:)
The reason for the "grip of death" is that the dummies Jobs hired designed the antenna of BARE METAL. So you are either shorting out the antenna, or your body becomes part of the antenna. Either way, it makes for a very inconsistent signal.
A Sprint guy once told me to always slide my Pr? open during calls because it exposes the antenna more. I rarely drop calls.
I couldn't recreated it. It seems the video is more "How to get no signal when you have almost no signal at all anyways". He only had 1 bar anyways, so it's not like he went from full bars and on a call to nothing.
Who in the world holds a phone like that when their browsing, playing games, and/or even talking to someone else on their phone. Yes of course... if I treated my phone like a captured terrorist prisoner, I'm sure it wouldn't give me a signal either. That video proved nothing!
I know several people who have shattered there iphone 3 just by one small drop I can't wait to see smashed iphone 4's
Tried it out on o2 in the UK but couldn't get a signal in the first place.