Palm shares tumble 10% after foreboding downgrades 81
Tue, 23 Feb 2010 7:23 pm EST 
Today both Vivek Arya of Merrill Lynch and Phil Cusick of Macquarie Research downgraded their analytic opinions of Palm, with Arya moving Palm into the sell column, while Cusick took a more cautionary approach and advised not buying any more shares. What worries investors, however, is the reasoning behind their downgrades: sales of the Palm Pre Plus and Pixi Plus at Verizon have been less than stellar so far (though we do admit it is rather early in Palm's life on Big Red).
While sales of the Pre on Sprint were okay, they were clearly less than what Sprint CEO Dan Hesse had hoped. And the Pixi, well, how many Palm Pixi phones have you spotted in the wild? Verizon, meanwhile, is fresh off the launch of the Motorola Droid and HTC Droid Eris. From reports in our forums and the word of Arya, Verizon employees are pushing those handsets over the exclusive Pre Plus and Pixi Plus. All that in spite of the large marketing push from both Verizon and Palm.
The news has pummeled Palm’s stock, with shares down a painful 9.99% for just Tuesday, while the NASDAQ technology index dropped 1.28%. So far through February shares of Palm are down more than 21%; and down nearly 55% since hitting a high of $18.19 just five months ago. As a company, Palm is now worth $2.51 billion less than it was at the end of September, which is not so great when that leaves your value (including Elevation Partners’ 1/3 stake) at $2.08 billion.
The only way for Palm’s stock to hope to recover from this decline is for sales at Verizon to be spectacularly better than expected. While most Palm users don’t care about the stock price, it does matter. A higher stock price is indicative of investor confidence in Palm, and while some may think Palm stock isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on, investors and analysts do still seem to have some expectations for the company. Just not lofty ones. That lower stock price makes a takeover a much more appetizing prospect for any company looking to expand their mobile offerings or jump into the market. For stable companies like Apple or Microsoft, the stock price matters very little. For a company on increasingly shaky ground like Palm, every little thing matters - the value of their stock included.
81 Comments
so sick of doom and gloom.
And I wish the King of Doom and Gloom would be cast off to an island by himself.
At least let's make a rule where Derek CANNOT mention stock prices. He has no business doing so. Heck, even Jim Cramer has no business mentioning stock information, much less advice.
These analysts were wrong in August 2009! I don't trust them.
Note: They reported sales of 350,000. It turned out to be 600,000!
When the Palm Pre came out in June 2009, analysts reported in August that sales ending in August 31, 2009 would be 350,000 for the new smartphone. They were wrong! The sales ending in August 31, 2009 was reported as high as 600,000 for the Palm Pre. Who knows, maybe they want people to sell their shares so that they can buy them on the cheap.
very interesting,,I have faith,,when you put out a good product,good things will happen. Rome was not built in a day.
Well... Rome had a better marketing department...
Yeah, it was called the Roman Legion (a.k.a the Army)
And that's why it's TERRIBLY SAD that the Palm Legion is headed by Derek Kessler, who rarely displays any hope for his own Army.
PATHETIC.
Lets not shoot the messenger.Derek does an outstanding job.
And Rome didn't have a Super Power already in place? I could be wrong. Still, for Palm to come out with a limping PRE in the presence of an already killer iPhone was damn stupid. Did Palm think the iphone was going to sit iddle while they develop their new technology? (not to mention the media, Wall Street, and consumers)
It's like David coming out to confront Goliath, with a new revolutionary two-hand sling, but with his thumb up his ass and no rocks in sight.
IF Palm would have come out with a half ass product without knowing exactly what Apple was coming out with would have been understandable, but still careless; you are suppose to know your competition. But to do it knowing full well who you were stacked against was simply...I can't find the words! INEXCUSABLE! (to say the least).
I'm wondering, what would you have suggested they do? Not try to compete at all?
The thing is... every product's first launch (i.e. - beta launch) is going to be a half-ass product.
The iPhone was a half-ass product when it first came out. Let me remind you that. It was not FUNCTIONAL, compared to a Treo or any other smartphone.
IN FACT, THE iPhone WASN'T EVEN A SMARTPHONE UNTIL A YEAR AFTER LAUNCH!!
The definition of a smartphone is one that allows 3rd party apps to be installed. The reason that a dumbphone could sell so well, was because of the marketing giant that Apple is!!!!
This is the part that ticks me off. Palm is in a GREAT position... but Derek would rather not promote that position. He'd rather promote meaningless stock updates instead of technical benefits.
Palm waited on PreCentral editors and users to be their marketing arm... oh, ho ho... but they didn't see Derek Kessler coming. Think POSITIVE, Derek! *NEVER* NEGATIVE!! ... at least in regards to outlook. If you believe, then it will happen. If Derek doesn't believe, then we'll all start using Apple products like he does.
very interesting,,I have faith,,when you put out a good product,good things will happen. Rome was not built in a day.
a big +1
sorry about the double post,,not sure how it happened.
Well, it's no surprise the Verizon sales of the Pre Plus and Pixi Plus are low because of their lack of commitment; all the Verizon folks go gaga over the Droid series.
While I'm certainly not well versed in stocks, it seems like all stock market stuff is just a self fulfilling prophecy...Someone says "No, bad stock - sell" and as if by magic, the stock drops and everyone's shocked! Ugh.
i think the only people shocked are precentral readers. I wouldn't call it a prophecy. Most stocks have a few things that are a well recognized measure of the stock. For example, if you're judging a retail store like walmart or target, one big measure is called "same store sales." So if Walmart's same store sales are up 10% this quarter but Target's fall 10%, Target is going to get downgraded or at least won't have remotely the value of Walmart. There are other measures but that's one.
For cell phones when sales is is one of the measures. Sell through as well and if an analyst get's new news that sales are not what they expected the day before, They downgrade. Then the stock falls. But it's not someone saying that the stock will fall and then it does. It's someone saying the companies not going to earn what we thought it was thus it's worth less then what it's selling for. it's at $10, but it should be $8. Well then everyone sells. The problem is if there was actual evidence that sales would be much higher, that sales of the phone were going great, someone would be releasing it and you'd have tons of buyers after it drops cause the stock would be undervalued. And that could stillhappen. hell Palm could come out tomorrow and say actually sales are up 50%. They won't. but one indication is insider buying. If tommorrow you see insiders snapping up shares that could be an indication that earnings are better then expected. That or Palm is run by delusional insiders.
The claims about "sales" are completely immaterial. Neither Palm nor Verizon is reporting on sales, and the "spot checks" done to date (for the Sprint launch) significantly under-reported actual sales.
Remember, the "analyst community" also declared that Palm had halted all production of the Pre and Pixi and was on the brink of closing shop, based on a "factory spot check" that turned out to be a routine suspension of production for Chinese New Year.
"Spot checks" are not reliable data. They *can* indicate a trend -- but the real trend is the sales numbers Palm reports after a couple of quarters of broader webOS device availability across major US carriers.
that's ubsurd to say sales are completely immaterial to an investor. It is the measure for cell phones. that wasn't the analyst community that was one news report, debunked in less then an hour and the stock quickly rebounded. When palm has evidence to debunk a claim of falling handset sales the stock will rebound. it doesn't though until it has an earnings report so the stock won't rebound. And if a company won't release its sales numbers you've let it to speculators so this is what you're going to get, investors polling stores to see how they do. And investors don't judge mobile phone companies by waiting a few quarters then adding up the sales. They go quarter by quarter to look for positive growth. That is they want sales increasing consistently. Because investors want a consitently growing stable investment. That's why apple is at 200 and palm is at 8 something. cause apple grows at a much more consitent level where as nothing else has. Even Rimm took a hit when it's growth rate fell, then the stock popped up again with the last earnings report that showed growth again. investors thought sales are back to consistent growth and the stock went back up. They didn't go, yeah we'll wait 3 quarters and look for a raw bulk number of sales. But its utterly ludicrous to claim sales are immaterial to evaluating a stock.
as a stock Palm is a crappy stock. it's got inconsistent earnings, some declining sell through and it's not not growing the markets it's in by much. But Bad stocks don't always mean bad products. But, i'm 100% certain that the Pre and the Pixi are not good enough. Sounds harsh i know. Pre is a good phone. But it's just not as good as some of the other players and i think it's reflected in the sales and lack of penetration.
Personally, i think Palm needs to release two brand new phones with major upgrades soon. like by july. That's basically a year phone cycle. they don't make a good enough products to push the same old design and just that old design.
"But, i'm 100% certain that the Pre and the Pixi are not good enough. Sounds harsh i know. Pre is a good phone. But it's just not as good as some of the other players and i think it's reflected in the sales and lack of penetration."
Hmm... perhaps a stock Pre "isn't as good as some of the other players", but a Prewared/PreCentraled Pre is definitely the top dog.
AGREED
A stock Pre/Pixi is the only thing Palm sells and it's what 100% of consumers see in a Sprint or Verizon store. To the average consumer. Preware doesn't exist.
I disagree, the Palm Pre is awesome
the palm pre is not good enough.
This is what happens when you shoot for the middle, like Palm has been. The company is clearly firing blanks.
I can't directly quote him at the moment, but I remember Jon Rubinstein talking (on the Engadget Show and other media) about Palm's target audience: People who are graduating from feature phones to smartphones. This is the specific goal of the Pixi and the Pre.
The Pre, while more advanced, still to this day lacks blockbuster features people have grown to depend on.
Shooting for the middle sounds like a good idea; huge market and potential. But consumers don't want a middle-of-the-ground device. They want the most advanced phone with the best features that is cool, trendy and cutting-edge.
That's why phones like Droid and iPhone succeed. They both toss so many features at consumers -- EVERYONE can find something to like.
Then there's Palm. It's reputation is being defined by competitors, the media, unhappy end-users and stock market analysts. Not a good position to be in.
WebOS speaks for itself -- and while it receives high praise -- still contains too many hassles, and lacks too many features to put the platform over the top (or over the hump, in this case).
I love my Pre, I love Palm, I love webOS... but it should not surprise any of us that Palm's reputation is what it is.
I disagree that palm lacks "blockbuster" features...
However, I will say this... Palm needs new hardware. No if ands or buts. I absolutely LOVE webOS and think it's far superior to android and especially the iPhone. But when I hold a friends droid, it feels solid. I'm sick of these tiny keyboards. I'm used to it, but for as much typing as I do on here, I need something bigger...
webOS will make it if Palm can pick up the pace a bit. I know updates are coming quickly, but unfortunately I don't think quick enough. (and I'm talking about SDK updates and opening more up to developers). It'll be interesting to see what more the PDK will bring...
and I think the statement about verizon employees being all over the droid is true... Sucks, but what can you do?
What "blockbuster features that people have come to rely on" does the Pre lack and DROID have?
What hassles does webOS have that Android doesn't have? My experience with Android -- on myTouch 3G, G1, and HTC Hero -- is that it's woefully patchworky and filled with hassles.
For everyday stuff like Microsoft Exchange integration, web browsing, availability of *good* apps, ease of use, and ease of application switching (for multitasking), webOS totally dusts the incarnations of Android I've used.
For the middle market who wants a smartphone, there are really only two that would pass the "mom test" (i.e. giving one to my mother without instructions and asking her to use it) -- webOS and iPhone. People like my mother are the mass technology consumers.
In terms of a business device, for the corporate market, there are really only two solutions I'd use for business -- webOS and BlackBerry.
And for fun, there are really only two solutions I'd use -- webOS and iPhone.
webOS is the "overlap." It allows no-compromises productivity, easy use, and no-compromises fun (with the PDK). That's not a hurdle, it's a feat.
To the average consumer, the Pre doesn't jump out like the Droid might. They look at the 3.1 inch screen vs the 3.7 inch and think well the Pre is obviously inferior. Its sad I know. Having owned the Pre since launch day, I love my phone but to someone who is not familiar with webOS, Pre looks like a midlevel phone. Palm needs Nexus One like hardware. While I will not own a touchscreen only phone, thats what a lot of people want. A big screen and a thin body will automatically attract someone to the phone and then they will have a chance to appreciate the software which is obviously superior.
Blockbuster features that people have come to rely on:
VOICE DIAL. Hello! I had a Samsung flip with a non-color screen in 2001 with voice dial.
Video recording (yes, I know it's coming; nine months too late if you ask me)
Memo/phone call recording (found on simple feature phones)
Skype (not Palm's fault? It successfully courted Fandango & Flightview)
A REAL Facebook app (face it, it's a deal-breaker for a lot of people)
WMA/WMV Support (If you really want all of those Windows Mobile business users)
Touchscreen keyboard (all of my old smartphones had hard and soft keyboards)
Phone call duration in history
WebOS Hassles:
SLOW, SLOW, SLOW!
Battery life is almost comical. I have a charger upstairs, downstairs, one Touchstone near my computer, chargers in both cars and my desk at work. Absolutely ridiculous.
Touchstone did not come with a power/USB cord. Are you kidding? Shame on you, Palm. Shame!
"Buy a bigger battery?" Do people even know how silly they sound when they say it? I don't want a deformed, overweight brick in my pocket.
Patches: I get it! People love them. Developers put a lot of time into them. The average consumer DOES NOT WANT TO PATCH THEIR PHONE! Everyone, including Palm, needs to get that through their heads.
I agree with your overlap theory, and I wish webOS was able to pull it off, but it clearly can't be a good fit for everyone. If it were, Palm would be selling more phones and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
If Palm wants to compete with the big boys, it needs to grow up and act like a real player.
When was this year's CES announcement again? Jan. 7 or something like that? It's been ALMOST two months (yes, I know they said Feb. and Feb. isn't over yet), and still no update.
Great strategy. Make people wait. Make your customers wait and wait and wait. I mean, it's already been nine months. We can wait a few more weeks for video recording, right? It's so unprofessional. Clearly, they're announcing features BEFORE they're even ready. That's a dangerous game in business and people lose interest and patience very fast these days.
Yes, I still love my phone and webOS is awesome, but come Holiday time, Windows Mobile 7 might be looking pretty sexy.
Agree 100%
Come'on stocks who cares? Funny thing is the hype about the Droid. I don't think that in the end normal people will like the OS. But perhaps I'm alone with my opinion on the road?
I think Palm didn't make a good step forward with the pixi but the Pre is still one of my favourite phones on the market in europe. I won't lose my feith in Palm. GO YOU WILL MAKE IT!
Props for including Elevation's stake in the market share calculation. Also, if Palm even meets the lowered expectations at this point, the stock will recover. If they surpass the original expectations, it'll be at $15 in days. Not a prediction, mind you.
My guess is that they'll come in at or just under predicted quarterly sell-in. The sell-through is the number to watch, along with guidance for Q4.
ELEVATION PARTNERS- do something about it - your sales and marketing are obviously failing miserably - make changes asap! protect your investment and the rest of shareholders...
I know Palm is doing everything it can to be its own entity, even with its less than $60 million budget - but when the market place throw around numbers and statistics like these...its hard to keep a sensible mind. I have faith in Palm, but I believe that if they need financial help to make webOS triumph above all...they should take it. I think Intel can be their meal ticket. I've been following reports of Intel trying to enter the mobile chips market but they're looking for an "in" somewhere...I think Palm could be it. Can you imagine the power of Intel chips running webOS?!? And with the backing of Intel's deep pockets and name recognition, Palm would be able to produce a variety of devices in various form factors to cater everyone's needs. It would be a match made in mobile heaven...theoretically!
In my opinion, the analysts have been manifestly silly through the entire launch of webOS.
When Palm showcased the Pre at CES 2009, the entire concept was what it *enabled.* The media (and analyst community) transformed it into an "iPhone killer" and when lines at Sprint stores weren't around the block, they declared it a "failed product."
Never mind that Apple was selling phones in 100+ countries worldwide while Palm was selling the Pre in 2009 on one carrier in one country.
Now, fast forward to mid-February, and "spot checks" supposedly say that Pres "aren't selling on Verizon." Well, neither Verizon nor Palm are disclosing sales so far, and my "spot check" on Verizon -- where I bought a brand new Pre Plus today -- was great. They had a separate table just for the Palm products, located in the very front of the store near the entrance. Placement for Palm products was more prominent than either RIM or Motorola products (including the Droid).
The sales rep was very knowledgeable about the products, recommended the Palm to me without me asking, and they sold/activated two more in addition to mine at the store. No Droids sold in the same time period.
Now, that "spot check" is different from what these guys are seeing in their own -- which is exactly the point. "Spot checks" are anecdotes, not data.
*Very little* of the incredible hype and incredible downside about Palm is based on facts and data, in my opinion. It's all been a zig-zag from "incredible iPhone killer" to "dead company." In reality, it's in between. Palm is aiming to make a killer product, making incremental improvements to webOS and the handsets very quickly, and it certainly managed to beat the analysts' projections for shipments worldwide last year.
The analysts sealing Palm's doom at the open of 2010 are as foolhardy as the analysts who were declaring Palm would kill Apple at the open of 2009 (and in many cases, they're the same people).
its funny how some people shoot the product down,,say in not so many words it crap,,,and yet in the next sentence says I have one and I love it.. Am I missing something here?
Things are always darkest before the dawn boys.
This quote is taken directly from palms pdk info page
"Easy porting of C/C++ applications to webOS, including those that use OpenGL ES 1.1 or 2.0"
It looks like palm knows exactly what they're doing. They're going to release the pdk to the public in March giving iphone developers any easy way to port their existing iphone apps to webos in time for the PRE 2's may/june release. That means for better or worse we're going to see a bunch of iphone ports, ala gameloft. Hopefully palm can knock it out of the park with some new hardware(nexus 1 with webos please) and we can all cash in by buying low now.
In Short... a phone with no Video Recording Capability and No voice command .... is indeed lackluster material. To many without those features there is no need for the salesman to even talk further. However for the patient and studious user who actually understands the power of the "synergy" features of this phone, would easily see how it is far ahead of many other phones. Overall I agree with many of the comments above, PALM must be content with not standing out front. If sprint got the iPhone, it would be all over for Palm. Sorry!
lmao what you expect...
I have my palm pre since september and I am still waiting for it to be a full functional smaerphone... Voice meno no,video or audio rec no, killer apps some but real apps that stand out from apple apps no, does anyone from palm think that as a palm user iphone users will always compare what they can do with their phone and what you can do with your palm makes you feel stupid everytime...then there's always these promises I have so enough of it...you will have flash soon and then without one official statement there is no hope for flash till the emd of time then people talk about a new killer update well the last update made my phone more disappointing then ever... And when I go to sprint thinking that my phone is brooken they say it's because of the last update so even if I love palm they make it impossible for me wanting to stick with palm my brother just got himself a htc and even htc is miles ahead of palm the only difference is more reliable apps on web os bit otherwise the htc has everything I've been waiting for on the palm... Just give me basic phone functions a flash player and I'm happy but even that is a problem... So and then you have editors at precentral that have nothing better to report on palm then about there market shares and co who really cares it only makes me more depressed that I am stuck with palm pre... Where in anyway are you special that you have a palm cool that you can uuse more then one app at a time but what difference does it make when you don't have basic phone apps plus killer apps..I don't care about games I was hoping with a palm pre to step up my game... But no hope on that anymore... With the palm you always talk about what will or might come never how outstanding cool it is... Palm workers if you are reading this it's time to step up your game even the site where you can make your own apps is not accesable if you don't have a up to date pc... Give us some real happy feat. And your stocks will go up and you can keep your job... I want others to envy me that I have a palm and not laugh at me
If I'm not mistaken, both of those names sound really familiar. I think I read that at least one of them had declared Palm to be "dead" on an annual basis for the past 5 years. I'm sure he's getting rather frustrated about that by now.
haha +1
What these analysts don't take into account is that Palm does not have to win a huge chunk of the market to become profitable. I really don't pay much attention to analysts who use "percentage of the world market" and "compared to competitors" as a basis for investment decisions.
Palm (and really I'm talking about the management, i.e. Jon Rubenstein) have done a remarkable job about being realistic about their forecasts, understanding their position in the market, reducing debt, and managing to come out with some innovative products. While I feel that Palm's price has been overvalued, oh, since a year ago, I think that as a long term investment the prospects look good, and that is because of the management. Sales and profits drive business; market analytics, not so much.
If Palm hits $6, I'm all in! ;D
1. Stock prices are a concern for any Palm device owner. Stock prices, while not always true, can be an indicator of how a company is doing or if it might fail or get taken over. This could mean a lot for the future of a device you own.
2. Many stock analysts are not that smart. Just look at how well the financial industry has done.
3. Verizon employees need to push the Pre and Pixi more. They are great products with an awesome OS. Although the store I got mine at said they were selling pretty well.
4. webOS is beautifully designed, easy to use, and very powerful. It is a great system and should be more exposed. Everyone is amazed by it when I show them my Pre+. iPhone users hate the fact that I can multi-task and have a real keyboard. Droid users hate the fact that the user interface is so much nicer.
5. Having used an iPhone and Droid, I have to say that webOS is hands down the best so far. With more app support and increased sales, webOS devices will be tops.
I own Palm stock (bought it super cheap last year before the announcement of the Pre and webOS) and I've seen it go up and down. It's bound to go up again as sales continue, real sales numbers leak out, and webOS goes to more carriers.
I think it really is a marketing fail on not only Palm but also Sprint and Verizon. It seriously pisses me off that all those sales guys at these phone companies continually push android phones simply because they're biased...
When the iPhone was released, it didn't even have MMS messaging for 2 years. And let's not even begin to talk about video recording (which many iPhone users CAN'T EVEN DO with their 3G versions). The video recording function is only available on the much newer 3GS (3 years AFTER the original). Yet, the phone still sold like hot cakes at ridiculous prices simply because of good marketing.
Palm needs to flood the airwaves with some really good marketing. Not simply just billboards or product placement in TV shows (nobody pays attention to what phone the TV characters use), but QUALITY radio ads, TV commercials... everything. And it needs to be on every 30 minutes or something, like the Droid.
Of course, it's all a catch-22 since all of that requires $$, something which Palm has none of...
Palm doesn't need another handset, they need to shore up webos, it's WAY too slow. Get webos up to speed (no lag) and maybe word of mouth can help sales and marketshare.
I've read an earlier post that palm is shooting for the middle of the market, I hope that middle doesn't relate to speed also!
Try a Pre+ and see how slow WebOS is then
This is definitely the wrong approach... Of course a top-notch strong hardware performs faster than a lower level one, but considering the already poor battery life, I really do not want a stronger and more demanding hardware right now.
Also, I do not want to be treated as a second class citizen for having bought Palms promises and the product which, in the first place, is why they are still alive at all. Being a Pre customer, I have put faith in that company despite I knew that they opted for the "banana" approach: product ripens at customer. Now, I deserve to be pampered. At least a little. Please.
So, please, fix the webOS shortcomings, and quick, please. And for the "old" regular Pre, too. Specifically, I really miss:
* OBEX support for bluetooth
* a fully-featured SIP client for decent VoIP over WiFi and data
* full virtual keyboard
* calculator application which calculates correctly: 2 + 5 * 2 = 12, not 14... Come on...
* SyncML support
And lastly, I really don't understand why they don't open that app catalog for users outside of the US. Its current state is ridiculous, really.
Need to learn basic arithmetic. 2 + 5 * 2 = 14....not 12!
A basic calculator will give you 2 + 5 = 7 then * 2, which gives 14.
Scientific calculators will follow precedence, and do 2 + (5 * 2) = 12.
So it depends on what mode you are in. Try it with your Windows calculator.
so funny how people try to talk the truth down I don't care how the iphones birth was I want to have fun with my pre..nothing more nothing less... Get it working then the phone is capable of more seems nore like palm pre workers work on the side for apple then for palm
so funny how people try to talk the truth down I don't care how the iphones birth was I want to have fun with my pre..nothing more nothing less... Get it working then the phone is capable of more seems nore like palm pre workers work on the side for apple then for palm
Anyone wanna take a wild guess as to who's short on Palm??
Anyone? Buehler?
I think everyone's comments are valid. That being said, here is my two cents. The bar has been raised, and while the iPhone or BB didn't have features when they launched, they do now...so... Palm doesn't have the luxury of making fresh tracks, they need to play catch-up. Web OS is fantastic, and has great potential, but flat out Palm needs to get into high gear, and with more than just advertising. Somewhere I saw a comment that Alan Mulally of Ford drives a competitors car home every night, while Jon Rubinstein has only used Palm devices. I think thats the problem, you cant have tunnel vision in the ever changing smart phone world (or car world). Palm Pre's biggest issues IMHO...cheap hardware-flimsy cheap plastic, and a small keyboard (how did this happen? No R&D?); slow OS (how many of you have been ever so frustrated just dialing phone numbers with software lag, that you want to throw the phone); lack of apps ( its been almost 9 months and we are just over 1,500. That's a hard race to catchup to Apple and RIM, but still?? ) I call these things the Palm roller coaster. I get my up's and get so excited and love the thing, but then I get my down's when I see the lack of moving forward at a decent pace, and find myself eyeing Sprints BB Tour2...On the trendy scale doesn't everyone have a BB nowadays?? Just MHO.
my two cents now. First people understand that palm is a small company so when they get bumps in the road there stock low seems very low, so I think people should just calm down. I have been over at wmpowerusers giving people work, because since palm decided to go there own way they seem to post the negatives every time speaking death death death. Over here it seems the same like a post above stated Rome wasent built in a day. F the marketing comment too you sound ignorant. In these times its more then just sink or swim, because Web Os is a successfull OS, but produced by a small company. Though you forget Palms been here before and been in it longer then the Apples, and Googles. This isnt new for a company like Palm to struggle a bit, they knew it would be hard when they released the pre incomplete on sprint last june. Hey did you even notice it hasent even been a year yet, though still people expect a miracle from a small company, and whats even sadder some of its own followers. In my opinion Palm and Web OS will succeed either solo, (like Apple did when they first launched the Iphone and remember there stock was at a poor 20 dollars a share and they were 3 times as big as Palm was back then, and people stated death to Apple then). Or Palm will sell the company to a Nokia and if something like that happens I hope they continue to work with Web Os which in my opinion they will. So F**k the stock reports, and yes they will release a better phone prob this year, and understand the pres and the pixies were beta tester model phones for a brand new OS that ONCE AGAIN HAS ONLY BEEN OUT 9 MONTHS ARE YOU LISTENING. Have faith in your investments, have faith in Palm and Web Os, and stop complaining about this and that and support this company in the good times and bad for once, and that goes for the editors of this website.
Good comment shaker!! Palm will prevail !!, WeOS, even though is not perfect, is the best operating system I have ever use in a mobile device. Palm needs more money, a better advertisement campaign, and to challenge the Iphone directly (after all it worked really good for the droid) forget about moms's market!!. We also need more support from the large developers as well. I am still waiting for docs to go and a better PDF viewer, so I can stop depending in my Ipod Touch. Jon Rubinstein is a brain, and he has great people working for him. Let's support Palm, after all we all love our devices lets keep it coming.
I agree with the above statement. It seems that this website is always negative on Palm. I am not sure why that is. Stand behind your company.
palm will be fine my friends. It's like how all the analysts picked the colts to beat the saints, even though the saints had a better team. Palm will flourish, trust me. There is nothing better than webOS.
The single reason stock prices matter is because the market says it does. If I ever find out who declared that the market should matter, I'll strangle their descendants.
My fortunately brief experience with the market was working for a Fidelity call center about ten years ago. After learning about the fraud that is the DOW, the absurdity of short selling, the inanity of trading options on indexes, and the general fickleness of the market I completely gave up on it.
There were days, after having access to very detailed, up-to-the-second quotes on any index or exchange you could possibly think of, that I would leave work completely ignorant of what the market did that day. Bliss.
Don't entirely agree with you, but LOL!!!
I'll probably regret asking this, and not that I ever thought my comment was bullet-proof, but, in general terms, what did you not agree with?
In this economy I can feel for Palm... Heck I can feel for my own job and cutbacks that have been happening.
The problem I see with Palm is market fragmentation and saturation...
The iPhone and HTC seemed to have come out with touch smart phones at the same time frame, but seems Apple had a bigger following when it introduced their smartphone with touch capability and a user interface that revolutionized what a futuristic smartphone could be.
When Palm launched Pre and WebOS, rightly or wrongly it was dubbed the "iPhone Killer", which proved to be not true and then that title graciously moved on to the next flavor of touch phone smart phone that came out.
The smartphone segment is realigning and everyone is going to their corner with their phone, their OS, their app store that it is becoming so fragmented and saturated that Palm's attempt while good, is not succeeding because the other smart phones coming to market are being spat out at too fast a rate that it's hard for Palm's product to gain traction when released at Verizon or soon AT&T.
As I said, the perception of Apple being first, has left it near the top and it had a few years to make sales while Palm and other who were caught flat footed try to catch their breath while cathcing up. Apple took away from Symbian/Nokia and Windows Mobile. RIM/BB while taking a momentary hit has stabilized based on it's relationship as a "business" smartphone. Google's OS has entered the market and HTC is baking up smart phones by the dozen and the only thing slowing this relationship down is coming up with cool sounding names for the phones being manufactured.
Palm like others will have their niche following. The only concern for Palm is will that be enough? The powerhouse of Apple is their own eco system that enables the iPhone success - iPods for the high schoolers that then use Apple laptops for college, heck might as well use their phone also... Google - search engine, G-Mail, Google Earth, Google Docs, blogger and other cool stuff has it's own little eco system that it can mature their Android OS around that HTC and Motorola use... Windows Mobile 7 coming soon, and while dropping the ball and coming late to the party, MS has their OS, Zune, X-Box, eco-system to revolve around. Palm has what? A nice phone, web-OS, (some apps and third party case covers and the like, just like all the other phones have or will have), but what else is out there to propel Palm? What is their eco system that they can tie their phone to and develop for? For that matter Dell? Michael should take a cue from Colligan and stick with what he does best and when somebody finds that out, please let me know! : )
Palm CEO Ed Colligan was very short sighted and quite frankly arrogant, when he commented on Apple's iPhone by saying back in November 2006 when word that Apple was creating a phone, "We've learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone. PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They're not going to just walk in." He further blundered when he said in February 2007 just after Apple introduced the iPhone in January while waiting for FCC approval for sale in late June 2007, "I have great respect for Apple, but won't be easy to create a good smartphone that will functions on networks worldwide. Nokia, Motorola, and Samsung have worked on this for for 25 years and have only partially succeeded today. Our Palm Treo already has 90% of Apple's iPhone features at a much lower price. By the way, if this is an interview about the iPhone, you should talk with the Apple people instead." Let's see, one phone model with one chipset of radio technology used around the world, GSM, and the only one that was talking to Apple was Colligan and that was in hiring Apple's brain trust and talent, or a "few computer guys", for a phone for his company. It appears Colligan was the one who didn't know what the heck he was talking about, which is why in June 2009 he stepped down as CEO of Palm. My only worry is that he left Palm to join Elevation Partners, the equity firm that owns a sizable stake in Palm. Does Colligan have any input on the direction of things, since he has been so wrong and off course so many times in the past few years? If anything is out there that would drag Palm's stock price lower, it would be that!
It's funny while I started reading this post a VZW Pre + TV ad came on during the Olympics. Got to say VZW is doing a good job of advertising the Pre lately. Lets hope it helps.
what palm needs is the coolnes factor. That's why people buy ipod or iphones. I have lots of friends with iphones. They hate the one of them calls it the gay phone. Not even kidding. But back to my point.
if palm made a new phone (c40) that had wimax. Was made like the droid and had a advertisements made by people who wernt fucking stoned. Then palm would be living the dream with tons of money so heres what I think palm shoul do
make everything more black, everybody loves black and it looks sweet
make the camera amazing, this is happening on alot of phones and anything less then 5mp sucks
way bigger keyboard, that way you can get all the teens with rumors (like half the people on sprint have rumors)
so aweome ads. I mean I don't know if they did this but I mean come on. It's called the pre. Make somthing about the name. "nothing can come after" that's sounds great to me but idk.
maybe I'm crazy. In fact. I'm pretty sure I am.....
Anyone notice Palm Pre+ and Palm Pixi+ are now 40 and 38 on Amazon Cell Phone and service bestseller list. Haven't seen the Verizon phones on this list until today (tracks top 100 phones). Avertising helps. Also, the Sprint Pre and Pixi are 15 and 23 on the list.
toyota only fell by 2%!!!
Take note: http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/wireless/301187/ref=sv_cps_2
Palm pr
If you own the Palm Pre then don't forget to write your review at Amazon. People read those reviews to decide what phone to get.
I don't care if sales-expectations are downgraded and stocks keep falling as long as Palm don't care to offer this great phone to a very interested European customer, not happened to live in one of the very few countries where Pre is offered.
Don't just keep pushing Treo Pro as it should be relevant any more. Here is what's offered in the Nordic countries: http://www.palm-imc.com/en/index.html
http://www.mobileinfoplanet.com/blog/blog1.php/2010/01/26/what-is-wrong-...
A few thoughts for you all to ponder:
1. Analysts aren't government officials, they are baised, even though they say they aren't. 1st line proof is that they work for Investment banking firms.. which make their money when stock prices move, one way or another (amang many other ways). Their comments are MEANT to cause stock movement, despite thier "objective" claims. Do the math.. :)
2. Plam had a HUGE opportunity last year with the Pre. It was annunced at the right time and place.. Android was seen as a failure, no other smartphones had any innovation to them, and the old feature phones were aging rapidly, with tons of new users waiting to get a new smartphone. Palm failed to take advantage of this situation by partnering with Sprint as an exclusive. Remember, folks, 75% of the world phones are GSM, NOT CDMA. At the very least, they should have provided an unlocked GSM version simultaneously with the Sprint CDMA version. My bet is sales would have easily quadrupled (1 CDMA phone sold for every 3 GSM phones sold). HUGE mistake, IMO, and one they are paying for, dearly, now, in hindsight.
3. In light of #2 above, it is now over 9 months later, and WebOS is likely still the best OS out there, however, the phone is far from the best available. Look at the Nexxus 1, or the Nokia 900; at MWC, 15 rand new smartphones were introduced! The game has changed, and, the middle of that market PALM has targetted has become focused on by thier competitors as well. The reality is, PALM doesnt have to worry about failing, but, rather, ecause it is a pubically traded company, it CAN become a takeover target, as this is the downside of being publically owned.. you are at the mercy of the opinion of those who participate and manipulate the markets.
4. IMO, Palm has one shot, now, to still become a serious player, as a smartphone manufactuer, that is independantly owned: provide a completely advanced, state-of-the-art phone with WebOS on it, for the 75% of the world's GSM users to buy, by the beginning of this summer. The phone needs to be leading edge in features (3.5"+ amoled screen, landscape keyboard, stero speakers, 32g RAM, etc), rock solid in construction, a blazingly fast processor (Qualcomm's snapdragon at 1Ghz would be a starting point - imagine WebOS with a hefty brain to work with!). Such a phone would sell at profitable prices, as the iPhone has proven, time and time again. I would suggest that they repartner up with HTC to produce the phone, as they used to.. HTC has the capacity and experetise now to meet all demands, and the quality of thier products is exceptional.
5. WebOS has almost 1500 apps now, only 9 months after initiation. That is incredible! And, with Flash coming, and the possiblity of porting C++ apps to WebOS, this will be the biggest boost toany app store to date.
6. Someone, ANYone, needs to tell PALM marketting to show the use of WebOS in a commercial. One simple swipe of the finger to show an app being thrown off the screen would be a HUGE selling point. 'nuff said.
Final note:
Success is defined by the situation one finds themself in. PALM has defiend thier goals as being one of the final players in the huge smartphone market that is emerging.. KISS is the rule of the day here (Keep It Simple Stupid).
Make a GREAT product, and make it avialable and market it to the LARGEST group of users and you get your best shot at achieving your goals.
PS.. id have bought a PRE last year if it was GSM unlocked, at up to $700. I bet there are at least 30 million of the 2.5 billion GSM worldwide users that would have done the same thing.
-LCGuy
...32g of RAM?!? I've never heard of PCs with that much memory lol. I think for a webOS smartphone, 2GB of RAM would do wonders - especially matched up w/ a 2ghz Intel Atom (mobile) chip ;) My cries still stand...Palm should team up with Intel who is currently looking into the mobile market!
Whoops!
I meant 1G RAM and 32G storage capacity. Add in an SD slot.
It's a shame that the analysts think the outlook is so grim for Palm. I think that WebOS is the most innovative mobile OS in a very long time. It would be a real shame to see this OS die out. The multitasking is second to none and I don't see any other OS's that come close with this feature. I will keep supporting WebOS until the end. Heck, I just bought 4 apps yesterday. Keep going Palm.
The Analysts understand ONE important factor : BUILD QUALITY (TM)
yeah and if you have been a long time follower like i have since the palm pilots and treos Palm has never had a huge stock. There a small company and by percentages when nasdaq drops and a small company like palm is only worth over 2billion with a buy price of 18.00 or 5.00 it will always show. Why do you think we are the only ones panicing here, palms not. They have been here before and know how to handle the pressure. Also just for ish and giggles, has anyone ever thought about what if a couple more companys came out with a portrait slider too, would that be a issue. I myself am happy with the build of the pre, the problem is look around its the only phone on the market thats out there in the masses with that type of design. Every other company is either a single form factor touch screen, or a landscape slider. Hmmmm ever think about that, really.
Pre needs a larger screen.
Top class software will take you only so far, especially when the market says "smallish screen" and "smartphone" do not mix. You can install into a Chevorlet frame the finest Porsche engine and it is still a C______y.
And one of the heads of Palm patted himself on the back for never having handled an iPhone....
heres a statment from the stock reports most anaylist believe palm will bounce back:
I read a good article about what Palm should do... http://moconews.net/article/419-whats-palms-next-move/
I think Palm needs to Partner with HP. They would be a prefect match; Palm has great software and good management, and HP has capital along with the ability to make great hardware.
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