Think Beyond? Think Back: How HP wanted Topaz to stack up against the iPad 71
On the eve of Palm's second attempt at a resurgence in just over two years, their new parent company is asking us to Think Beyond. Before we do that, we thought it would be good to Think Back... back to last fall when their parent company, HP, was eager to develop a 10-inch tablet to take on the iPad. We are referring, of course, to that massive spec drop we laid down for the tablet that was then codenamed Topaz. Above, you can see how HP hoped their tablet would line up against the iPad in several categories.
Will these specs pan out to be what HP and Palm announce tomorrow? We are thinking yes, but you never know. There's no new information here, but if you need a refresher, here's the scoop. The Topaz may sport a 9.7" screen with Oleophobic Corning Gorilla Glass, a dual-core, 1.2GHz Qualcomm 8860 processor, memory options ranging from 16 to 32 gigs onboard, 512 megs of RAM, WiFi, options to run 3G and Verizon's 4G LTE, a clever Touchstone docking system with some sort of content sharing, a front-facint 1.3mp camera, and enough battery life to last all day.
Competitive with the original iPad spec-for-spec? For sure. Whether it will match up against the widely-expected iPad 2 is another story, but let's focus on the positives. HP has marked their advantages in green above and if all goes well, HP is definitely hoping that some iPad owners will be green-enough with envy to make the switch (yeah, we went there).
All will be revealed tomorrow and we'll be liveblogging the whole thing.
71 Comments
Just won and iPad in a give away. anyone want to buy it so i can get a hp/palm topaz?
Everyone on ebay.
Exactly...
This seems like the Palm Pad is going to be the same as the iPad but this is old documents so hopefully these specs are much better.
yes I hope those specs get a big bump i dont want old specs is gonna be having a pre minus all over again
Wow, they refer to it as "iPhone OS" instead of iOS which shows how old this document is. If this is what is released, I will not buy it. I want something on the cutting edge and fast enough to handle a complex OS like webOS. I want to feel like I have the baddest device for at least 6-12 months, not 'negative 12 months'. It's gotta be future proof for at least a couple of versions, c'mon!
HP will release this. Then be quickly out done in terms of hardware by the iPad2. Obviously the amount of available apps isn't even worth talking about. Deja vu
I think it is a bit unfair to compare it to a year-old device
Is it me or the specs are not high end? How much do you think a device like that will cost?
By the way, i love how WebOS is written in bold-green ;)
I don't know if the specs are going to be high enough. One thing is for sure. If these are the specs they better be selling it for $300 to be able to compete with all the other tablets.
It is unfair to compare to older devices--that's why the Pre shouldn't be compared to the Evo, the Epic, the iPhone 4G, etc...come on, they are comparing it to the current industry favorite. When the iPad 2 comes out, the Topaz will have to stand up to the new guy on the block.
Specs not high end? Gorilla glass, dual core processor, ports, camera, & as you mentioned, webOS! Needs a better battery & a few other things, but when this was written...not too bad, IMO.
I really hope they arent releasing a device designed just to compete with the now 1 year old iPad. The original Pre could destroy the iPhone 3g in specs, but then Apple announced the 3gs and that all went away.
I have no doubt that this tablet will be awesome but its going to be competing with the iPad 2 not the iPad.
Nah. After tomorrow it's gonna be hard to sell. :)
I don't think specs matter
bottom line is: the device needs to work, and work well. That includes functionality, how they plan to interact all the devices together, and sadly, applications.
that being said, that mean nothing unless the device(s) are marketed properly.
the average consumer could care less what processor it has (or even know why it could be relevant) or any of those other specs
Actually, the average consumer is starting to know about specs and all that jazz. So if these are the specs then it won't sell well regardless of how well it runs.
Actually I think he's right.
The average consumer don't even look at the specs. They look for design, and how well the device work.
That said, having impressive specs would help marketing the device, but it'd come at a more expensive price tag.
I think HP is going the right way by releasing a cheap tablet.
I agree that he's right that specs aren't the main sticking point for most consumers as long as it works well without inadequacies calling attention to themselves. The Pre lags all the time without overclocking (and it lacks plenty of features/apps that would make that a bearable trade-off) while having had top notch specs for its time.
As for your "cheap tablet" comment - let's hope that comes true and doesn't end up like the Xoom at $799.
Yeah definitely.
1.2 GHz and 512 Mb RAM is not too shabby (although we definitely could use more RAM, fully using WebOS' multitasking capabilities), but the best way to attract new costumers is to sell a tablet cheaper than the competition.
That way, some people would buy it instead of the iPad or an Android, and fall in love with WebOS and spread the word.
That's what happened to me with my Palm Pre. I got it free with a 15$/month rebate on my contract
The average consumer cares whether or not it streams Netflix movies. BOTTOM LINE. Either you have that or get out of the contest.
I think the extent of that increase in knowledge is knowing that 1.2 Gigasomethings is more than 1 Gigasomethings, and that dual cores is more cores than single cores. The nerds and geeks (me included) will geek out over the specs, while the rest of the world will ask how many apps it has. That's the key to this whole thing: if HP doesn't have the developer support we're all hoping they have, then this tablet will be a hard sell. And if they do bring some big time developer support to the special event later tomorrow night, then HP (and the webOS faithful) better hope that the apps start flowing in at a higher rate than just a few a day.
This being said, I'm cautiously optimistic about tomorrow. My tax refund is burning a hole in my bank account.
He has a point about the average person not knowing much about specs. Just ask around. You know how many people to this day still think the iPhone 4 is 4G. We have a passion for tech so its a no brainer to us, but to the average joe, You mention dual core processors and gorilla glass and they will look at you like you just made that up. All they care about is how much room they have for junk in a phone and the camera.
excellent example with the iphone 4 and 4g. People just simply don't know. Apple could come out and say that their products are made out of maple syrup and i guarantee you people would storm around and believe it.
Specs only matter in the sense that it allows the device to perform the way it should. Lets take the original pre for example. Good specs for when it was announced. Did it lag? absolutely. However, i don't think that comes down to specs per se; to me that was more or less the software of webOS not being optimized for the release, and, quickly the specs became outdated due to advancements in software, and still not being mature enough.
You could talk and talk and talk about specs all you want, but at the end of the day, average Joe on the block will just look at you like you're an orphan from some different universe. It all comes down to how you market your product. 2 examples: 1 - Horrible horrible advertising winner goes to Microsoft and their "to the cloud" nonsense. I've had at least 6 people I know come to me and say "what the heck does that mean".. I don't know if the USA gets the same commercials as we in Canada, but they're gawd awful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lel3swo4RMc
2) Apple gets it. Simple as that. I've never owned a product, and never will in my life because I hate Apple, but I respect the company for understanding how marketing works. You don't showcase "specs", you showcase how the device works and what it will bring to your life to make you think it'll be better with their product. And even with Apple marketing specs by their "retina display" they still manage to dumb it down for the average consumer (because most are technically challenged) and relate it back to how your life will be changed lol
Iphone will come out in a month with a dual core a5, two cameras, 1gb ram, and even better display.
Hopefully HP is smarter than that
iPad 2 will not have a better display according to current rumors and wall street journal.
but it will be thinner, and that maybe why hpalm decided they might want to decrease the battery to make it thinner.
Wall Street Journal says the iPad 2 just went to production
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870436400457613264312516887...
in general i think specs don't matter. The specs just need to be "good enough" for whatever it has to do. in the same way desktop cpu are pretty much good enough form most things people do these days. Unless you're like editing video most processors are good enough. i think were getting to that point with tablet specs.
Most important is having good apps. People need something to do on it. Most people will say, "how do i facebook", "How do i netflix?", "How do i read my Kindle books?" etc. Like if you're a doctor, you're saying, "can it run such and such a patient management software blah blah blah?" If you're working a warehouse you ask, "well what supply chain management applications does it run?"
more the specs i think users and enterprise adopters will say "what does the device do?"
Yeah exactly.
But better specs = better (looking) games, like on PC
I think, as a 1st gen device, the Topaz needs to be attractive, not spec-wise
i'm wasn't claiming specs have no effect on performance. just that at a point, more specs don't impress people enough. And i'm not sure people even get the relationship between specs and what they want to improve. i sure don't. But like i remember precentral did a segment or story about how the added ram on the pre plus diminished lag. Like if i had gone into a store i'd never ever have even known what level of ram to demand in my phone nor that if the o.s. was slow i'd need a phone with more ram. But, as for specs, my example of diminishing returns of specs would be horsepower for most people. most people will take a 500hp engine in a car if the factory is just giving it away for free but they won't pay more for it cause you can only legally drive about 80 so the benefits of the added hp don't translate into a much better driving experience.
huh?
To sum it all up, tablets arent really as spec-tastic as desktops are. Its more about the ecosystem and UI than the specs.
I don't really care about the specs, the question is, will it sync contacts, pics, etc. with my webOS toaster?
Yes. And it will be able to toast your contact information onto sliced bread, english muffins, bagels, etc. to hand out as business cards. It will also be able to sync photos, which will be printed on your toast with jelly ink. The most delicious family portrait ever.
Not that Im a tablet guy (Im not), but, a huge advantage that any WebOS device has over any competing device to date is the ease of Multitasking use, and with this CPU, it should perform extremely well, if the OS is optimized properly.
It will be ALL about the user exeprience, and the aesthetic design/cool factor tomorrow, for all new devices.
Im going to go out on a limb, here, and say that these specs are outdated,and the actual device will imrpove on them - and that's why they (HP) leaked the old specs from last year recently.
:)
One key is How many weeks till these things are for sell in stores. Hopefully by end of month.
I don't really care about the specs. The question is, will it sync contacts, pics, etc. with my webOS toaster?
Is it just me or does anyone else feel like a kid on Christmas eve? You either wake up to a NES with R.O.B. in tow or you get some church clothes and a stocking full of walnuts. Excited but cautious.
Haha church clothes, I was about to reply with Sweater from grandma, but yours is better :)
Sorry, double post. ^^
I really want to see a new smartphone or two! Specifically I want them on Telus (Canada).
I have been cash strapped over the last couple of years and now I am finally ready to replace my something less than state of the art Treo 650! (So all of you complaining about your pre/pre+s...you don't get my sympathy)! ;-)
i hope they upgrade it really bad because i dont want a tablet that has old specs and bad resolution and HP make the battery last a full day
iPad is for the metrosexuals who doesn't care about the specifications. :P
as long as hpalm contiues to try and best apple, the more they'll lag behind. Whatever happenend to finding out what people want and need, and building somethimg that does it. That's how innovation happens. The more you 'try' to compete, the more you are subject to the ideas of your competition. Apple is apple because they didn't try to compete with microsft or anyone else really. Actually they did the opposite. They defied them, and now they are the most successful company in the world (according to fox business today). Come on palm, you have the OS. Now stop trying to compete with the competition and start defying them. These kinds of comparisons are counterproductive for a company seeking to innovate.
I think they are doing both, which is good news.
Are there any Palm people in here or just people from other platfroms? The specs are fine, it looks to be a nice device and it will be running an OS made for a pad, not an oversized ipod touch.
With the iPad, Apple has set the starting point to the "tablet wars" in a deliberately low point, holding back lots of specs, to be sure they can answer, specs-wise, all the bombing that's going to come from all the Android "drones" this year.
So the iPad 2, is probably going to be HUGE, having probably a 1,2 GHz dual core processor, 1 gig of RAM, 128 gigs of storage, 8 megapixel camera, etc...
So webOS, is going to be underfeatured on arrival, AGAIN!!!
hahah. You're crazy if you think that the iPad 2 will feature all of that and maintain the current price point or go lower.
Apple won't even reveal its specs. It'll take someone to tear apart the device to know the specs. Apple has mostly been evolutionary since it always gives them something to give the following year. Add 1 feature at a time. And they get aware with it because of their reality distorting field which is getting bigger and bigger.
Really HP has no reason to hold back. HP is going to treat tablets like its notebooks. HP's going to keep putting the latest cpu and features in there and update regularly.
I can remember when Macs started to become really popular. People were into them because they were functional, more functional than Windows computers. The specs weren't any different, they just had a much better operating system. Apparently the Ipad2 is going to have a similar if not identical display to what it has now. I can't see them making any changes that Palm can't trump or compete with. All of that being said, hopefully more people will go with Palm once they realize the beauty of the OS.
Macs are not more functional than Windows computers. Better operating system? In what sense? I use both OS's and I can tell you Some Windows7 features bests OSX and some OSX features bests Windows 7. This statement is subjective. One things for sure, There ain't a gaming scene big enough on OSX to be of any worth to the OS.
Im thinking around 8 or so years ago. You can't tell me that Windows 2000 was a better operating system than whatever Apple had at the time.
The ipad2 will most likely only have 512mb of ram and JUST a medium quality front facing camera. Yes, a dual-core processor and upgraded graphics... but seriously guys... these specs for the palmpad, even if the "old" spec are accurate, truly compete with the ipad2.
The screen resolution will stay the same across the devices for the time being. May make it even easier for ipad app developers to bring their apps to webos. Good move hpalm.
The same way that the good ol' pre2's specs (screen size is more of a preference) compete well with the smartphones out at the time of release.
just my 2cents
For all of you who dont think specs dont matter you are wrong. Thats the one thing that should matter. We all know that webOS can go toe to toe with any os out their thats not a question. The average consumer buying any thing knows how to compare prices evan if they dont know what half of the specs are used for. Again we know how good WebOS is i hope HPalm give the rest of the world a reason to take a look at it. Their are going to be alot of tablets this year Xoom,Ipad2,ect. i hope HP give us some real ammo to go to war for them with.
Yes they matter, but I think the argument is about shopper perception. First thing they look at is the form factor, sleekness, and the intuitiveness of the UI and apps. They dont look at the fine print on the tag that says 1.2 or 1 or 1.4 or 1.6 blah blah.
Specs matter to marketing people and geeks. Do you think grandpa knows the difference between an A4 and Qualcomm anything?
HP does not have to beat Apple to be a winner. In fact nobody is going to catch and beat apple for quite some time they are simply too far out right now.
HP needs to be better than Andriod. That will give HP enough time to refine and recruit developers developers developers to then start go after Apple's market share.
Buddy, I totally agree. Every time I think about how HP is going to catch Apple, it makes my stomach drop. Apple is way too far ahead of the pack, and will not be reeled in any time soon. At this point, it's a race for second, a race which HP can conceivably win if it gets this market right.
First we get the devices, then we get the developers, then we get the marketshare, then we get the ladies.
You guys need to STOP the competition with a device that became an STANDARD to the public 1 year ago. Repeat after me.
"YOU CAN'T DESTROY AN STANDARD"
just a few samples.
Windows, the most heated OS on the world, but 80% of PC use it.
MP3, the most used audio file in the world, and there are more than other 30.
JPGE, the same.
As soon as something (iPad) the public consider it an STANDARD (for the last year) you can't destroyed it
P.S. Real important note I F...... HATE THE iPad, iPhone, Apple nad all iSomething.
I don't think the iPhone or iPad qualifies as a standard compared to the examples you have given.
Windows is used in schools, businesses and in homes everywhere. If you want compatibility you don't have much of a choice.
Mp3s are widely used for file sharing and most audio devices like car stereos support mp3s but not other formats. If you want to file share or play digital music in your car, you don't have much of a choice.
JPEGs are the standard image format for most digital cameras, you can convert but it makes life easier to stick with this format.
The iPhone/iPad has a lot of apps and accessories that are exclusive but there are a lot of alternatives especially in the Android world.
I wouldn't yet call iPhone/iPad a standard.
Sorry, but it's driving me nuts. It should be "a" standard, not "an" standard.
YOU CAN'T DESTROY AN STANDARD
Its not about being a geek its about being an informed consumer. So yes specs matter evan to grandpa if he ia savy enough to want one he is also savy enough to ask questions about one.
The bottom line is that success for our platform doesn't have to do with specs, it's all about marketing. Palm failed because of marketing (lack thereof). iPhone succeeded because of marketing. As long as specs aren't destructuve to use by the masses then the key is shelfspace at major retailers. We enthusiasts care about specs, but we don't really influence the success of the product the way we would like to believe. We're dealing with mass market devices where 90% of the market buys because they saw sometthing cool on TV or in the store or because a friend/coworker has one. It's media mind-share. People like android because of the marketing hype, not because they tested different devices and found it better than anything else.
Hpalm has to get it on the shelves and in the carriers promoted list; period. Palm has always been superior, but Apple gave the public the first exposure to the "cool" and so we'll always have to play catch-up. I'd love to see a device that out-specs the iPhone 4, but the public doesn't care. The media panders to Apple because of their "cool" reputation and will therfore make anyone else have to outmarket Apple to win a significant, though still minority, share of the market.
just my $.02
We as enthusiasts do influence the market its called mind-share which HPalm has non. Apple was successful not only because of marketing but apps and fan base also. All im saying is that people in general want the most for their buck.
Spec wise, I'd rather HP release the Topaz specs at $500 than Xoom specs at $800.
Also, Anandtech says 8660 is competitive with Tegra 2. http://www.anandtech.com/show/4144/lg-optimus-2x-nvidia-tegra-2-review-t...
Palmpad success will be dependent on the following for most people:
Does it look good.
Does the screen interaction keep up (unlike my gen 1 pre which gets laggy all the time). Hardware is important but so it the way the software is written. If you get good software which runs well on lesser hardware you are on a winner. You can compete with cheaper components.
Can I do the same kinds of things I can do with an iPad i.e. watch films, buy music, do email, browse the web, facebook, twitter etc. and does it do this without me needing to be computer geek?
When people buy a device like this they are buying the functions it provides. I think that finally HP have understood this and that is why I think that quietly in the background they have been forming alliances with many of the #2 providers that compete with the iTunes store to support this product with a proper integrated ecosystem.
The piece that's difficult to bolster is the App Ecosystem which takes a little longer to build that say an alliance with Amazon for MP3. However, what many people may not realise is that the Webos PDK was designed to allow rapid porting of IOS software. Therefore step 1 for HP is to show enough commitment to the platform to make porting from iOS worthwhile for developers and then we'll see a proliferation of the best apps available for WebOS. It may turn out to be a blessing as only those apps with decent market potential will get ported so perhaps we'll get less of the dross.
I really just want an upgrade to my slow as hell pixi
In the meantime overclock your pixi to 800mhz
As far as webOS tablet goes all I'm looking for is AT LEAST 1GB OF RAM and a DUAL CORE PROCESSOR...hopefully TI's OMAP 4440. Gorilla Hi Rez screen is a plus and battery life of more than 8hrs (constant use) would be nice! Like others were saying...it just has to work and work well. I can't wait for tomorrow! Come on HP - don't do what Sprint did and hype up crap. BRING IT HARD!!!
Tomorrow is now :D
I say specs dont really matter either. Android devices outdo iphone devices in specs and yet iphone is still most desired (there are arguments android is catcbing up but thats only due to carriers not having iphone imo) look at the iphone 3gs, same specs as the pre. That thing was smooth as butter and many people who still have i say it is still smooth, even after 4.2 the pre 2 is also said to be s
Ooth on 2.0 with 1ghz so a 1.2 ghz dual core processor i think people are worryint too much about numbers. Lets look at the lOok size and capabilities. I could care less how much ram or processor speed it has if it runs smooth :)
Perfect explanation :)
Hmm, according to Engadget, WSJ claims the iPad2 has a front-facing camera for video chat. What about the HPad?
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/08/wsj-ipad-2-in-production-features-fac...
I think it will all depend on how they market it, how many good apps it’ll have in the near future and if they provide a good flagship phone to go with it (and a couple more to suit other tastes), also in the near future
In any case, I think it’s insane to think they’ll sell near as much as Apple, and HP knows it. They probably never will, but they’ll eventually get closer. But it isn’t going to be this year nor the next.
Regarding specs, they might not be so important to the average buyer, but don’t understimate the average buyer... He may not know what a Ghz is, but he knows what RAM is, just like he knows what mp are in a camera.
But most important are the things above
I took the day off today for this, it better be good as I am retired and my boss (wife) will be PO'd at me for taking my netbook to Starbucks and aquiring a table for the rest of the day....
I had to promise her a new Palm phone as we both have upgrades waiting from Sprint for sooooooo... long now I cant remember when!
If this is a good day at HP, dont forget to go outside to listen for the screams and fireworks. if not a good day at HP, then I reccomend you stay inside and avoid all the crazy Palm fanatics that will be roaming the streets of your city....
just MHO....