PreDoodle - Just Borrowing Ideas | webOS Nation

PreDoodle - Just Borrowing Ideas 23

by Jason Harrison Fri, 04 May 2012 6:14 pm EDT


Come on guys! You can't just "borrow" ideas like that...



You should make that wallet bigger.  I was invited to the samsung event, they stole from us and apple. Although apple will do something about it.

Filled with what? A $3.3 billion IOU? A bunch of patents they can't/won't fight over? Taco meat?

I could go for a taco wallet.

* Pinch to zoom
* Flick to scroll
* Physics-based scrolling
* iTunes Sync
* Fully integrated on-device application store
* 30/70 revenue split
* Integrated accelerometer

Come on guys! You can't just "borrow" ideas like that...


Good point.

Gee.. could you have picked out any more incredibly basic items to try for a point? Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't, huh? lol

Funny you didn't say that when an article stated Samsung ripped off the "river stone shape"? I mean, how much more "incredibly basic" can you get?

still reaching.... a smooth curvy design is a technological item now?

Nope. Which is why I question why you didn't call it "basic" when Derek mentioned it here: I suspect it is for the same reason you didn't bother to point out how "incredibly basic"
monday206am's "grid of apps" or "smooth shape" comment is just a post or two below. It's probably only "reaching" if it is not a pro-webos statement.

The point people are making here is that everyone is "borrowing" from Palm's point is that Palm was far from immune to "borrowing". They ALL do it.

Not sure how rounding the edge of the device is mocking the Pre's riverstone appearance. When the screen was off, the Pre looked like a big plastic rock from a river bed. SG3 looks like an SG2, but more rounding.

This whole "ripping off Pre or WebOS" thing has gone far enough. Pre had good ideas, but no execution. They were a generation ahead on a few things, but there is no reason everybody should have to skip that generation in their evolution.

HP's execution was not even close. When you have resources and a better product, and you still can't sell products, Darwin is your ultimate CEO.

Microsoft and Nokia have/had tons of resources at their disposal and look how they have fared in the smart phone market.

A better product? Millions upon millions of consumers have said otherwise. I know, I know they are sheep... unless, of course, they all were buying webOS blindly, then they wouldn't be sheep, right?

In recent history, MS and Nokia have not had a superior product. HP could not sell water in a desert.

No doubt...there is plenty of "borrowing" in the industry. However, Apple's strengths haven't really been in pioneering since the 80s. No question that they are good at marketing and refining technologies...and/or out right buying them (siri). Oh...and don't let me forget filing for patents...and aggressively defending them.

On the other hand, Palm was a pioneer from the beginning:
- Grid layout of apps
- Integrated media/music player
- Touch (pressure) screen
- Phone-integrated PDA
- Notifications

And they continued to be pioneering with the Pre. Sure there were some things that Palm borrowed (via Rubenstein?), but there were also innovations that were beyond the other current offerings:
- True multi-tasking (cards)
- Gestures (off-screen)
- Synergy
- Wave launcher
- Smoothed shape (one of the things I still love compared to the iphone)
- Wireless charging
- Slightly curved slide-out full QWERTY keyboard
- Notifications (integrated and improved on WebOS)

And this wasn't done over time (see evolution of ipod/iphone), the Pre had all this in one package from the start!!!

You made my exact point with your very first sentence.

No doubt...there is plenty of "borrowing" in the industry.

The (rhetorical) question is, why is everyone up in arms about it when other companies do it but are ok when Palm and HP do it?

The truth of the matter is simple. They ALL borrow ideas from each other and they ALL try to improve upon those ideas while bringing some of their own ideas to the table. Some things they pull off really well and others they simply FUBAR.

Oh and just to clarify a few points in your list:

- PDA was made mainstream by Palm but Palm was not first in it
- Grid layout of apps date back to where both microsoft and apple "borrowed" it from
- Resistive screens were around for years before Palm's first PDA
- Gestures on a capacitive screen was not a Palm thing (my samsung monitors and tv uses "off-screen capacitive areas" as well)
- The wave launcher was an improvement on the Mac's doc (and lots of javascript reproductions of this)
- Induction charging was not a Palm first
- Notifications, borrowed

To be clear, I think Palm did a good job at enhancing what they "borrowed". If you are going to claim that one company is not a pioneer because the technology they integrate into (and enhance for) their product first showed up somewhere else, then you need to measure Palm with the same ruler. Likewise, if you give Palm credit for being a pioneer by brining in other tech and enhancing it for a mobile computing device, then it's disingenuous to not give the same credit to other companies that have clearly done a great job at the very same thing.

And this wasn't done over time (see evolution of ipod/iphone), the Pre had all this in one package from the start!!!

1. They also had all the things I listed "from the start". So they still "borrowed" just like everyone else while "innovating" just like everyone else. They even took the "borrowing" to a nutty level with the whole iTunes sync thing.

2. Where is the rule that says innovation/pioneering only happens at the point of product launch? Is it no longer innovative if things are added later?

3. They also "promised" things like Push Notifications (another borrowed idea) "from the start". What ever happend to that?

Hey, at least some of webOS is going to stay alive!

Mockery is the best form of flattery (: This really irritates me , but it's true , mocking us is just a compliment

Wow, all this "We did it first" posts are getting a little annoying.

It's like the whiny kid on the playground and keeps blaming all his problems on everyone else.

Palm and HP failed, I know it hurts but you gotta get over it.

actually palm holds the patents for combining phone and pda. That is one reason nobody bothered to sue palm.

Nobody sued Palm because they have not been a competitive threat to anyone else in like forever.

Too bad that so called valuable patent did not do anything for Palm or HP when dealing with webOS.

So, tell me, again, how valuable that patent is.

Patents are gold. If you're a big market player, you need them to keep your competitors in check. You violated my touchscreen interface patent, so I can violate your broadband hardware patent and life goes on. Most of the lawsuits, have been over "appearance" of the interface, and its more of a defense of branding, than technology.

But if you're a major player and don't have a good portfolio of patents, you'll bleed dry trying to defend yourself. And even apple has run afoul where a nothing-entity that had a patent that apple infringed on, and effectively wins mega-dollar settlements or royalties, even though the little guy never brought a single product to the market place. They have value, but data phones will be homogenized, just like cars, televisions and salt shakers. Phones are moving into a commodity space with only weak differentiation between makes and models.

And if Palm and HP were still a major player in the smart phone market, what you said would be true. But, they are not.

Phones may be moving into a commodity space, but that doesn't include the iPhone.

Just look at all the generic PC's that HP and everyone else makes. Then you have the Mac that is the premium non-commoditized PC that stands above all the cheap stuff. The Mac has been around for over 28 years and it's still not a commodity product. I foresee the iPhone traveling a similar path.

Over the 28 years, the Mac/PC difference has been whittle down to nearly nothing. Mac's no longer command the astronomical prices they once did. The use the same chips, can run pretty much the same apps, same printers, monitors...

Within a commodity industry, there are generic bare bones hardware, and there are premium hardware on both sides now. And it's hard to make a case for iphone being a premium item within the phone industry. If anything, it's more commodity than PC's as they all use the same carriers, same fees, have the same apps, but the iPhone does function restrictions, so you may be right in the end.

Simple...the cheapest HP laptop starts at $299. The cheapest Apple laptop starts at $999. There is a $700 price difference there.

As for the iPhone, they could have used plastic instead of the glass and metal that's in the latest iPhone to make the phone cheaper. But, they didn't.