Report: Palm still facing return issues? 65
Changewave has just finished conducting a survey of 1,009 people who bought a smartphone in the past 6 months and in a newsletter they sent on detailing some of the results is the above dire news for Palm: 36% of respondents said they were likely, somewhat likely, or very likely to return their Palm smartphone.
We've addressed the contentious issue issue of Palm's return rate before and given the improvements made to the Palm Pre Plus line, we were hoping that the issue was well and truly behind us.
The survey also placed Palm is the middle of the pack when it comes to satisfaction ratings - at 45%. On the bright side, webOS clocks in with a 57% satisfaction rate, though that's still behind Android and iPhone.
Have you had to return a Palm smartphone or otherwise faced hardware issues?
Changewave Research, more info on survey results here.
65 Comments
I am on my 4th Pre Plus on VZW and am still 100% satisfied with the phone. The keyboard is a pain though. I wonder if the AT&T keyboard has any double typing issues?
Palm can't blame Sprint for this. Many people thought Palm's failures came from partnering with Sprint for 6 months. That is obviously not why Palm failed to keep afloat. I love WebOS but the phone isn't good enough to compete with what's on the market. Some people love the design of the Pre and Pixi but Palm needs to make a phone for other users that like a landscape slide out qwerty board and a phone that is all touchscreen about the size of the EVO or Galaxy S. One more thing is the updates have made the phone run more buggy so Palm needs to have WebOS run way smoother. If Palm can do this, and now since HP owns Palm I thing they can, then Palm will be way more successful.
I agree, I would love to see WebOS on competitive hardware. I purchased this phone for the operating system, but i am very disappointed with the hardware. I'm on my 2nd pre going onto my 3rd soon because of the oreo cookie hardware issue.
I know Palm is losing many many current and potential customers to the new HTC EVO. They need to realize WHY they are losing customers, which I think is because Palm's hardware is behind the game, and address the issue.
I love my PRE very much, but I've replaced it twice now. Once for a loose usb port and the most recent time (3 days ago) for a defective phone speaker (not sure what exactly it's called, I had to use headphones or speaker-phone to hear anyone I called, if that helps).
Like I said, I still love the little guy, but as everyone knows...and I know it's pointless to say it...but there are hardwate issues with the first gen (I'm on Sprint)
Now that that's out of the way, GO PRE!!!!
Whoops, somehow posted twice. GO PALM!
Not sure what 'return rate' refers to, but I have an exchange.
I am currently very bummed to be without my PP+ but hopeful. After having trouble unlocking my phone, the phone blocked. All codes given by ATT were unsuccessful, making the phone completely non-functional (7 hours of trouble-shooting by both ATT and Palm). I am having to get an exchange and am crossing my fingers that I will be able to unlock the new one. This has been really scary and I hope to be able to get all of my data, apps, wallpapers, etc. back into fighting form. I transitioned from a Treo 650 and all of this adjustment (i.e. putting my personal info on Google, rather than Palm Desktop) and product failure makes me nervous.
I'm still on my first but looking to get a new one, mine overheats frequently...
Compared to the competition I think sampling a little too harsh on Palm. If it had a bigger install base, I really doubt the numbers would be this high. You have such a niche crowd with the Pre and the Pixi and the casual user is probably the most objective in terms of opinion.
I've had my Pre since launch day and it still works perfectly fine, and no I don't baby my phone(many falls, many patches, Doctors, Meta-Doctors, etc. some scuffs, and plenty of invisible scratches on the screen(can only see when screen is off and light reflected))
Perhaps, but the sample still has meaning: when talking to the average smartphone owner out there, those with a WebOS device are currently more likely to reply that they are likely to return it. Whether that's 34% of 200 users or 30% of 2000, there's still an issue HP is going to need to address. Hopefully they'll find an effective way to do so.
(Though my own Pre Plus is still going strong, with nary a hiccup.)
According to ComScore, there were approximately 45 million smartphones in the US in 2010. Palm has sold probably about 2-2.5 million of them, so about 5%. If this sample is anywhere representative of anything that means that about 50 (yes, just 50) of the people surveyed here had a palm device. I would hardly call 50 users statistically significant. While there are certainly plenty of known hardware issues to factor in here, I'd say this survey tells us very little in terms of actual numerical data.
I dropped mine and it cracked at the top, so I became concerned about reception issues and had it replaced at Best Buy. But other than that, two Pre's, one from August and my current one from October, and I haven't had a single hardware issue of the many people report (screen discoloration, blown speakers, messed up headphone jack, oreo, power switch, keyboard, etc) and I do many things others classify as abuse: throwing it in the purse around keys, dropping it, only having a front skin on it, patching, themes, uberkernal, etc. But I still believe and don't fault those on replacement 3,4,5, and 6.
I got my Pre from Sprint as soon as they were being promoted. I had to wait on the waiting list for about a week. That was some time ago and I still have the same phone and it works just great. When my contract expires I will likely buy another WebOS phone provided that
A) It's faster
B) Has a form factor similar to an iphone (big screen,thin, virtual keyboard)
Without those things it will be a dealbreaker.
I love surveys and statistics since it never tells the story. I am on my first Palm Pre (Sprint) which is now coming up on one year my girlfriend is on her Black Berry number three. So does that mean that Black Berry is worse than the Pre? In our case I know that she is much tougher on her phones that I am on mine that is just nature of us.
I love the pre from a mechanic stand point (it feels real good n my hand) even if I can see some improvement that would make it even better and I am sure that Palm / HP can see them too. I think that the WebOS is real nice and with a faster CPU it would real rock. Now to the downside of the phone: If you are not ok or confinable with applying patches and stuff like that you have to live with something that should never been sold. Try to change an appointment from next Monday to the first Friday in next month ;-))
My hope is that when we hit this summer Palm / HP will release a Pre++ with WebOS 2.1 and some real application that one can use out of the box
OK if HP CEO Mark Hurd is correct is saying: 'We didn't buy Palm to be in the smartphone business' then those numbers does not mean much to any of us!
The only reason I need to return mine is because of a clouding issue with the screen, but I am expecting to get a new on in it's place. I am still in my 30 days - :)
I've had my launch day Pre up until about a month ago... i am now on my 4th.. i told everyone they are crazy that build quality is fine.. i was wrong. My First replacement had a spacebar in the down position.. 2nd had a screw fall out of the sliding mech and get stuck.. i have a pic of it in a post 3rd now has something "pressing" hard on the screen from behind.. when i slide the phone up in one spot on the phone it turns into a rainbow like when you press on a screen way to hard... so waiting on my 4th now.
I'm on my first Pre Plus from VZ. No issues at all hardware wise.
I can't see myself returning this for an iFail or Faildroid.
Palm made the bad=good but intern made the good=bad. My 755p was a solid phone but the software was very obsolete, My Palm Pre has awesome software but terrible hardware. With a list of defects a mile long. That is why hp is so promising to me. Hopefully with the financial backing Palm could make us a Web Os device with the build quality of an iPhone (however so basic, the bar style and materials hold up well). They did better on the Pixi's quality but the internals where way to weak.
Still on my first Sprint Pre, in a few days it will be a year old, no hardware or software issues, really happy with it.
I went through 3 Pres on Sprint- first one cracked within days of getting the phone, second one had really bad twisting, third one overheated trying to find service and ended up burning a light spot in the screen. For whatever reason, Sprint's service was abysmal where I live, so when the Pre Plus came out on AT&T I was all over that. I know people complain about AT&T a lot, but now I can reliably make and receive calls- totally worth it. The build quality on the Pre Plus feels way better too.
Since launch day (June 6, 2009) I've had to replace my Pre 5 times for various reasons, most frequently slider issues. It still sucks, but I love it.
On another note, I can't believe WebOS still lags behind iPhone OS and Android! I've used all three, WebOS kills the other two hands down. I am seriously resisting HTC EVO for this very reason - WebOS and the few excellent apps I've purchased (and gotten for free). I won't wait forever for Palm & HP to come out with something new though! (hint hint)
I just bought one on Craigslist. It has the crack above the USB port. I talked to Palm and they said they would fix or replace the phone for free. $140 for a Pre and having it replaced for free isn't a bad deal.
Oh, and I just came from Android and I'm not looking back.
We have 3 Pres on Sprint and have really enjoyed them, save some reception issues.
Of the three, I have gone through a total of three Pres myself, my wife has had two. All within the first thirty days, and all due to the "oreo twist".
Our current phones are exhibiting the twist again, but not as severe as the phones we returned/exchanged.
The only one that has been pretty much rock solid is the kids' Pre which sees more abuse than my wife's and mine combined.
Now if iPhone 4G comes to Sprint, it will be a very tough sell to keep us on Pres/webOS phones even though I think it a superior OS. It's all about the apps, and Palm's app store is just plain dorky in comparison. I hold hope for HP to put more muscle behind it, but there's this nagging doubt in the back of my head.
Is Precentral actually asking about this? It's been Palm's biggest problem.
Without knowing the sample size of each smartphone group this survey as reported is kind of pointless. They might have that detail in the $1500 report but I'm sure most blogs will just repeat the investorplace.com report on this survey and make it seem as if the Palm return rate is worse than it is, or alternatively 36% might be better than it really is. For example a sample size of 100 (9.9% of the 1009 respondents) being in the Palm group would give a margin of error of almost 10% which is kind of high for ascertaining anything. A more valid survey for return rate would have a sample of around 800 or more for each group. That size group would give you a margin of error of little more than 3%.
My original Sprint Pre turns one this month. I've never considered returning it. I've had no seriuos hardware issues, and the software issues have mostly been resolved. Negatives: Oreo effect and two small scratches. Plusses: 50+ patches that make my phone do what I want it to do. Plusses outweight the negatives in my mind.
My pre is just about a year old, from Sprint. No issues at all; it's working great.
Had my GSM Pre since it hit Germany. Working absolutely fine.
On my 3rd Pre with Sprint. While it's been inconvenient, Sprint has been great about it & the Cloud has worked great, so I've never lost aps or data.
For this Pre, I have covered it with Skinomi & bought the Sprint leather pouch for added protection and have not had a problem since. Still in mint condition.
I would return mine if it wasn't too late. Love WebOS but hate this phone. I have owned literally dozens of smartphones and this one is a massive letdown in build quality and design. Every day it falls apart a little more. The slider is bad, it becomes very lose very fast and eventually starts twisting like mine, the battery cover is poorly designed and cracks insanely easy, the plastic screen is very susceptible to scratching compared to glass, the keyboard is squishy and a pain to type with. Its just an awful phone full of great ideas and horrible execution.
This platform on hardware like the droid's would easily be the best phone on the freaking planet. As it is now its a big let down. I can live with the speed as long as my phone dont feel like its going to fall apart in my damn hand.
Its sad to see such an awesome platform be held back by some morons idea to skimp on the hardware.
I wish I had good news, but I am on my 6th Pre in two months. I am so sick of the hardware problems. I love webos, but the Sprint Pre sucks. I hope that they announce a device with reliable hardware soon.
I got mine in November and I just got my replacement yesterday. I had the micro USB port fail. Other than that, no hardware problems with mine. Sadly though, when that failed, the whole phone had to be replaced.
I purchased my Sprint Palm Pre on launch day (06/06/09). I had to replace it on the 06/19/10 because after installing the touchstone back cover
I'm one my first Pre, from the day-after-launch on Bell, no real problems. There's only perhaps a little amount of wiggle in the slider, no real Oreo effect. The right hand side of the keyboard is perhaps a bit sharp. There's a bit of a colour difference on the screen in the bottom right but it's very rarely noticeable. I had to get a replacement Touchstone but the Pre has been pretty decent.
I think there are some major build issues with the Pre, I've been lucky but there are gonna be some really unlucky people too. Anyone who thinks the quality issues don't exist is mistaken but there are almost certainly plenty of people who don't have any problems. We're always going to hear from more people with problems than people without, if you get what you expect you're not that likely to tell the world about it.
Am I missing something or is this an opinion poll? It doesn't say they have returned their phone, but rather they may or may not? Also is there a link to show the reasons why they might return it? Is it hardware problems or they just don't like the phone, or want to try a different phone?
I'm on my 5th Verizon Pre Plus. I hate the hardware of the Pre Plus so much. I was excited about getting a hardware keyboard but at first it had the double type issue and with the update I now have some dropped letters. I know dropped letters aren't as but but my friends blackberry has NEVER had any keyboard issues and he has put it through hell.
I would've gone with Android if the platform wasn't so fragmented. I just don't want to get a phone and then after 6 month updates will no longer be supported by my phone.
If HPalm doesn't release something amazing I might have to leave WebOS for good...
I'm on my third +. The first one had a keyboard issue. When I got my refurb there was some discoloration on the screen. I got my third + and I'm okay with it. I love palm and won't switch to anything else :)
I just ordered my 4th one today from sprint customer service.
Pre #1: keyboard stopped working
Pre#2: slider problems
Pre#3: phone shuts off upon sliding the phone closed, plus constant headphone/earpiece/ear sensor probs.
Pre #4: TBD
I'm on my second Pre. I had to replace the first one due to getting the battery port cracking across the screen problem. Palm replaced it for free after a bit of debate. No problems with the second device other than two small scratches that appeared out of the f*cking blue one day. I'll live with it. I love Web OS.
The survey means less than it looks like. Consider iPhone and Pre ... I would bet a big wad of cash that the actual numbers are much closer than represented.
The big issue is that the survey is self-selected. In other words, people who had problems are much more likely to respond than people who had no issues.
"But doesn't that apply to the iPhone numbers, too?"
To some extent, yes, but Apple's marketing is going to heavily mitigate the number of survey returnees. I know many, *many* iPhone users who will never -- and I mean never -- admit that their iPhone has any shortcomings, but every Pre owner I know -- myself included -- is willing to own up to the problems with the Pre (and webOS, though fewer). It's just the "Apple culture."
I picked up my sixth Pre today. I bought it on launch day with Sprint. Each replacement has been due to hardware issues...and each was different. I've had a bad volume switch, a bad headphone jack, a bad ear speaker, oreo effect, and something else I'm forgetting. Anyway, it's quite frustrating. There is so much potential, but hardware issues are killing it for me. The EVO is getting to be somewhat appealing even if it is huge compared to the Pre.
What is the best way to get it replaced? I bought my pre 10/1/09 and I have the TEP but don't want to pay anything for a replacement. Other than some pretty frequent TMC messages and a little lagginess, the only problem is the random crack starting at the corner of the USB door and creeping closer and closer to the screen. Actually, now there's another perpendicular crack coming from the original crack. The ironic part is that I have 3 touchstones and never even use the USB port. Is it best to just walk into a sprint corporate store, call sprint, or palm or what?
i haven't had any problem with my phone. the only real thing that bothers me sometimes it wiggles in some points in the open and closing action. thats it. every phone is going to have issues. ours has few, with hardware and some build quality. this great we are revisiting this prior to the next generation coming out.
One thing I keep noticing in the above posts is that those who have had their Pre replaced end up getting their replacement replaced shortly afterwards, is this the fault of Palm's build quality or the Provider sending out original Pre's refurbished?
I only ask as I spoke to 02 and they said if my phone developed a fault I would be given a refurbished Pre ie not a brand new one! So are these refurbish Pres not really up to scratch?
I've had my Pre for 4 months now and no problems with build quality just a naff battery which 02 replaced for free.
They are definitely sending out refurbished phones and they each have different issues. I've had only two with the oreo effect but all four have had the keypress issues. The power button recessed on all four within days of getting it. One of them had a shitty speaker. The volume rocker fell off one of them.
Just face it, all the original Pres are confirmed shit.
I sincerely hope the Pre Plus models are better and HP/Palm sure as hell not come out with this shit with the next phone or WebOS will surely die.
I bought my first Pre from Sprint in October. It worked fine except for the oreo effect and the recessed power button until March when it started the double/nonexistent key press issue and the battery indicator started giving ridiculous readings. I've replaced it three times now and am on my fourth Pre. They have all been crap. I love WebOS but can't stand this piece of crap hardware. Sprint will let me replace the thing for a Samsung Moment or a Pixi but that's it. I didn't want a Moment to begin with and I don't want one now. I don't know what to do. I'm at the end of my rope. Any suggestions?
I am writing from my second Pre, the first one had keyboard issues, per touch onto a key, there were up to 5 registered keypresses.
The second unit works flawless.
By the way, the capacitive touch-display of my iPhone G1 also had an issue when i got it. It registered a touch when my finger was 0,5 mm over the glas.
So that both was first release hardware, and both had its problems.
So lets get the pre out of its childhood-problems.
to me that doesn't sound right because there you have account for sales...and we haven't sold that many...i mean above RIM?! i find it very suspicious and a little bias toward apple. i'm just sayin...
I didn't read all the replies so my apology if this was hit already. Palm had a policy that this phone needed to be replaced if there were any issues. I'm not aware of other companies being so liberal with this policy. I think it's great to have the phone replaced in the first year. Most other companies would force you to send out your phone for repair. That would greatly skew the return rate. Most people might consider a Palm "repair" a return whereas with another company they would consider it a repair. Does that make sense?
I didn't read all the replies so my apology if this was hit already. Palm had a policy that this phone needed to be replaced if there were any issues. I'm not aware of other companies being so liberal with this policy. I think it's great to have the phone replaced in the first year. Most other companies would force you to send out your phone for repair. That would greatly skew the return rate. Most people might consider a Palm "repair" a return whereas with anoter company they would consider it a repair. Does that make sense?
I'm still on my launch day phone - I have a bit of oreo effect, and cracks on both sides right at charger port level that only showed up about two months ago. Considering what I've put the phone through, however, I'm still happy with it. I would like to see something a bit sturdier for future release - I've held a friend's Pixi and it has a rock solid feel that is missing with my Pre. I know that the same rock solid feel can't be achieved with a slider in place, and I do prefer a slider phone. However, my old HTC WinMo phone (Wizard, IIRC) is still solid to this day. The few Pre Plusses that I've gotten to play with feel a bit more solid as well - now if only I could get one on Sprint.
tha Pre is a nice phone for first time smart phone users.
We just exchanged my wife's AT&T Pre Plus today after 2 weeks of use. It had daily resets and power on issues. So far my AT&T Pre Plus has been working fine.
well I'm on my 10th...thats right I said TEN, since launch day, non of which were my fault! I love WebOs....but the harware is horrible. Tried to get the new HTC EVO but they wouldn't give it to me. Instead offered me the PIXI or Samsung Moment. I laughed at the Pixi offer and after research decide Moment wouldn't work either. So I'll be going in to get my TENTH FREE Palm Pre!!!
well I'm on my 10th...thats right I said TEN, since launch day, non of which were my fault! I love WebOs....but the harware is horrible. Tried to get the new HTC EVO but they wouldn't give it to me. Instead offered me the PIXI or Samsung Moment. I laughed at the Pixi offer and after research decide Moment wouldn't work either. So I'll be going in to get my TENTH FREE Palm Pre!!!
well I'm on my 10th...thats right I said TEN, since launch day, non of which were my fault! I love WebOs....but the harware is horrible. Tried to get the new HTC EVO but they wouldn't give it to me. Instead offered me the PIXI or Samsung Moment. I laughed at the Pixi offer and after research decide Moment wouldn't work either. So I'll be going in to get my TENTH FREE Palm Pre!!!
I am on my third Pre. The headset issue really is irritating. The Sprint store in our area has to order one and you have to wait to get it replaced. If you aren't aware of the headset issue - when you plug in a headset to the jack and unplug it sometimes it will stop producing sound. I could only make calls on speakerphone or with a pair of corded mic'd headphones. This issue happened twice. Other than that it has been all good. So yeah there are some hardware issues, but WebOS is pretty solid.
We are still lacking in the app department I bet when Windows mobile 7 comes out it will have a larger app store from the get-go.
By the way still no editing of documents - it has been over a year. Still no flash promised to us in 2009 and there were demos too. Development is going too slow.
I'm on my 5th pre. Its been the a different problem everytime. I still think the webos is the best but the hardware isn't even close to the competition. unfortunately I moving on to the new Evo 4g...It's every thing I thought palm was going to have. I may come back for the next version.
Still using my launch Pre, almost a year old. No problems and webos is the best!
I'm on my first and only launch day Pre which is in like new condition and its been like a Timex but i'm not taking any chances on keeping it any longer then Friday, I will drop this phone like its hot. I buy a new phone every year and since there isn't any new Palm phone announced my Pre days will be history.
Statistic are such a horrible way to convey information. Unless I missed the key piece of data where it says out of the 1009 participants how many purchased PALM smart phones these sensational facts don't tell us much. If we accept that Palm has a smaller market share then Apple a survey where a static number of people where asked about their specific smart phone qualities then you don't have comparable data. I would hope in the $1,500 full ChangeWave research they disclose that fact. Too illustrate if only 25 of the 1009 people were Palm purchasers having 9 customer's likely to return their phone would give you that 36% return rate. Also in turn if 130 of survey participants purchase Apple with 7% return rate they would would also have 9 people like to return their product. I am not saying that survey doesn't say something but in order to compare between manufactures I think they should have sample the same number of phone owner's per manufacture.
so, here's a funny. I've ragged on the hardware quality of the Pre since I owned it. I dropped it twice, once on each top corner, from 4ft and cracked and chipped the sides. It has horibble oreo effect, and I had to get the headset jack replaced because of the speaker/headphone issue.
All this aside, I dropped my Pre 20ft to a concrete floor yesterday..... Not a scratch! I just recently put the touchstone back on the Pre, and I really think that's the reason it wasn't demolished. I still don't know how it survived the fall. The screen should have been toast. This is a 1st gen Sprint Pre too!
on my 3rd Pre w/ Sprint but still love the OS...thinking about trying out the EVO for 30 days though. Palm/HP is really going to have to step up their game!
Well, that's pretty much in line with the 4, count 'em, 4 Pres that I got and had to return in about 6 weeks at the start of this year. The first one developed spider cracks on the screen after 6 months, and 3 replacements after that had various problems from the touch screen just giving up to the power button breaking. The current one has been working for about 4 months, fingers crossed.
Personally, I think HP should just focus on WebOS and sub the hardware out to OEMs. It's not their strong point.