Round Table: Improving webOS | webOS Nation

Round Table: Improving webOS 167

by Derek Kessler Mon, 29 Mar 2010 1:38 pm EDT

Round Table

Welcome to Round Table, which is in fact not a table at all. Round Table is a continuing series on PreCentral where we pose a question to the staff and they provide their thoughts and insights. The question could be something simple like “what’s your favorite webOS app?” or something a bit more complicated, like “what was Palm’s biggest mistake in getting here today?” Or maybe we’ll just end up chatting about our favorite recipe for pumpkin pie, you never know.

Today, however, we're taking a critical look at our devices and webOS and asking, “If there was one thing you could improve about webOS, what would it be, and why?”

Derek: Memory management: I know that the solution for the anemic memory on the original Palm Pre is the Pre Plus, but for those of us stuck with a launch Pre we need some relief. Too often are "out of memory" errors thrown up when working in just one app, or when trying to launch just one app. We shouldn't need to be running stuff like JSTop just to have a functioning device.

Dieter: Email: Palm did a pretty solid job with the email client out of the gate: unified inbox, push email support on the major email providers, and so on. It's time to give it a little more love, though. Of course I want better Gmail support - labeling and archiving please - but I'd be happy with a few more likely changes. First: multi-select for deleting and moving multiple messages at once. I can't tell you how many times I've accidentally deleted the wrong email. I'd also like to see webOS synchronize starred folders automatically. I get so much email that it's critical that most of it gets auto-filtered into folders (labels) and out of my inbox - but unless I manually check (and wait!) those folders, I don't know if there are new emails in there. Hey - the ability to universally search all folders wouldn't hurt either. Of course, I'd also like to see speed and more speed.

Jason: Google Maps: I'm not sure if it was done by Google or by Palm, but it's bundled in the standard webOS ROM, and needs to be fixed. The webOS version of Google Maps really far behind the competing releases on other devices. There's no latitude integration, no street view, no advanced mapping feature that are incredibly handy on the iPhone and Android. Patches have shown latitude is easily feasible, so why not integrate it officially, for the average webOS users who doesn't use patches? There isn't even landscape compatibility. Ideally I'd love all those features in the webOS version. Seeing YPmobile with Bing maps being a viable alternative is a bit surprising, especial with all the features Google normally offers as standard.

Jonathan: Bluetooth: Keyboard and additional BT profiles should have been added months ago, and certainly should be moved to the top of the priority heap. Beyond those of us who lack only a full-sized keyboard to truly use our Pre phones for laptop replacements 90+% of the time, there are many other BT-enabled features that are both phenomenally useful and would instantly differentiate the Pre from its competitors. From file transfer to video streaming to printing, BT is a long-stable technology, is industry standard and is additional profiles are entirely software-based. Adding non-audio profiles would also help place the Pre firmly in the “for business as well as consumers” marketplace where it could more readily compete.

Keith: Email: But for a different reason than Dieter. 2-way Sync for Google as well as labeling / mass selection is a huge missing feature to me. I'd rather get to a computer to clean up my inbox with the Pre as my Daily Driver, where as on a BlackBerry or an Android device, I can do a nice job of tidying up on the go.

So there you have it, that's what we want to see improved. How about you?


I think Palm FIRST needs to improve the HARDWARE.


This would solve the 2 biggest problems of WebOS: Battery life and sluggish performance.

This!! all of the way, with a true multi-tasking OS you can't just have the hardware specs everyone else has. You need more because of the sophistication of whats going on in the background. If Palm focuses on putting webos on the appropriate device.. this would make it truly amazing for me. The rest of the requests can come from 3rd party developers palm has the basis there and the software... now just get the hardware right darnit.

ps do it before going bust please... kthxbye

Remember that it's not the app's fault, generally. All apps get their location info from the device. It's a very simple call. This is more likely a Pre issue, and I've noted it on several apps.

If by hardware, you ALSO mean GPS, then YES! I was in my car the other day, after downloading YPmobile and it was completely useless! I could not get a GPS signal at all. I'm growing very tired of all the apps I can no longer use because GPS just flat out doesn't work. Please FIX THIS!

First, to be helpful: This happens to me a lot with a number of apps. I find (on the Sprint Pre) that getting a fix via Google Maps then going to my other apps always fixes it. I suspect that on the VZW phones that the same works by launching their Nav app to get a fix.

Second... I've seen this bug on my old WinMo devices too. I don't understand what causes it, but please fix!

with Sprint Navigation, i had no problem getting it to work on this blackberry, but i didn't like the blackberry. there seems to be no way to get the voice to come on on the palm pre version of the app. i don't get it. also i had a really hard time figuring out the oddity of having to go back from the "getting route" screen to get to the map screen. on the blackberry when i tried it out it just went right to the map screen and started talking to me as well.

maybe that is just your phone. My Sprint Pre has a sultry digitized chick voice guide me with directions. Sometime "her" pronunciations aren't great, but I kinda like "her."

How exactly does that help the 1 million users out there? A software update helps ALL of them immediately. Therefore, doing that FIRST makes no sense.

How is it profitable for them to continue focusing so much effort on folks who have already purchased the product?

They have to keep innovating to keep people interested in their product. The largest flaw of this device is the hardware. Visual Voice mail isn't going to attract people if you're the weakest powered device on the block.

More powerful hardware to complement their already powerful OS makes more sense to me, than adding visual voice mail for the 1 million people who've already purchased the phone.

Because any improvement to WebOS (which WAS the question) will automatically improve ANY future hardware.

Basically, it was asked, what software improvements should Palm make and the response is FIRST HARDWARE. I submit that the opinion is stupid. Hardware can slowly fix things as people adopt it. Software can fix things NOW.

The ideal solution is both, but by saying hardware FIRST it is the same as saying do no software updates until new hardware is released. That is just dumb. The hardware and software teams are different. Why would they hold one up so the other can do work?

People want bigger screens, higher resolution cameras, keyboards with bigger keys, more memory, etc etc. Will an OTA update give these things that current and potential customers are craving for?

s +1
c -10

You fan boys sure are hard headed, huh?

oh crap i totally fooked that up.

i meant shijj -10
and caricatao +1

On that note, I also retract my previous reply to you.

I used my Pre to do a video recording of an orchestra concert yesterday. I got to say - it was AWESOME. Once on good speakers (or earphones) the video was remarkably clear and the sound was better than my digital audio recorder. I was very impressed.

Now, video or camera ZOOM - that I'd love to see.

BTW - I bought the Pre (and waited 6 months to do it) instead of the Droid because I didn't want a humungous sharp cornered box in my back pocket. The screen size is fine. I almost bought the other android phone that came out the same time (was it the HTC Hero lookalike) because it looked like the Pre and was way more comfortable to work with. But it had their old operating system on it.

That may be. However, it doesn't make the answer to "How should we change the software?" as "Hardware" any more justified. It doesn't help the discussion.

I'm not craving new hardware. I'm craving Bluetooth file and keyboard profiles. Will new hardware give me that?

I'll repost the question directly quoted from the post.

Well said! If the computer world were using sacherjj's way of thinking, we would be running our Windows 7 machines on a Commodore 64.

If you actually read my posts, you will see I said hardware and software are developed in parallel. New hardware will not fix many of the software issues. It certainly isn't the fastest fix.

If we were using your way of thinking, we would still be using BASIC 2.0 on massively over-powered machines. They would be incredibly capable machines with hardly any support for anything you would want to use them for. Would you really want to spend all that money on a 28" HD monitor when the OS only supports 16 colors? Hardware and software have to move forward together.

It is a given that Palm will have to introduce new hardware, and I'm sure they have already been working on it. The question from the article is asking about software improvements though, the best way to tell is that all of the responses given in the article itself are software changes.

For me, the first change to WebOS needs to be memory management, whether it is through improving garbage collection and fixing memory leaks, or a change in how multitasking works in general. Personally I hope they get garbage collection working right again. Second should be decreasing system lag. Then improving app launch speed. I know that having better hardware will solve my issues, but I believe that the current hardware is capable of running just fine. In fact at launch multitasking was working better than it does now. I remember being able to have 7 cards running all day long without problems. After 1.3.5 I can barely get through the day without getting the too many cards error. Hopefully 1.4.1 will show that the hardware is capable.

I reposted the question above, and again no where did it specify "software only improvements".

Your analogy is piss poor as well. I said improved hardware was where they need to start. WebOS is far more of a sophisticated OS than the hardware platform it runs on. Using a linux kernel backend which they're doing they already have the code base availble to support far more sophisticated hardware than what they have. So I don't concede your point.

Therefore: If we were to use my way of thinking we would be able to exploit features of the linux kernel that already exist to extract the easiest improvements to the overall OS.

Second, as for your suggestions for improvements.

If palm has a problem with garbage collection in their JVM, then they need to analyze their system and realize that they have essentially have a real-time system with a few non-real-time lower priority tasks. And should use already existing software jvms that employ real-time garbage collection like metronome to employ predictable timing for their core functionality.

Changing multitasking? Again how many concurrent hardware threads are there in an armv8? You can change a user threading library all day long but if there aren't enough hardware threads to support it, you're just going to end up spending all of your switching scheduling. I believe they should move toward a true multi-core architecture.. I'm not sure maybe arm 11 is a step back, but then they would be able to utilize a dedicated core for their real-time sets, "telephone functionality" and use the additional cores for the user generated tasks that don't have real-time constraints.

Decreasing system lag? They're running a jvm on top of a linux kernel to provide their user experience... You're living in lala land if you think software improvements are going to give a significant fix to that. My understanding is they're already using almost all of the tools they have in the standard arsenal.. aot compilation, and jit optimizations are about all you're going to see.

So again, if I were the owner of palm, I would be pushing for new hardware.

Thank you, this is the last I can respond to this.

edit I meant arm11 mpcore - standard arm11 is a step back from a8

Bottom line: Upgrading software will most likely not get Palm out of their current economic predicament (unless they do something radical like a whole new version of webOS, i.e. webOS 2.0, etc.). Upgrading hardware will have a more visible effect and will get them more money than upgrading software ever will.

They have to think of new adopters more than current owners right now.


We shouldn't need to be running stuff like JSTop just to have a functioning device.

Amen, brother!!!

Palm doesnt need to change a thing. They are dead. Their stock sucks and their Pre device is a lemon. I've gone through 6 Pre's ... SIX, and the earpiece just went out on it today. I will be selling my refurb replacement and getting an android phone. Stop fooling yourself. WEBOS/Palm will not get widely accepted. They should have just improved the old palmOS. I mean, I cant even natively sync my outlook contacts without a paid third party app, terrible. It's been fun lurking and sometimes posting to the forums. You guys have a great community and spirt, too bad you are all rallying around a sucky phone.


Am I the only one missing a FILE BROWSER (a.k.a. 'Explorer')?

To refer to some of the other items on my list that have already been mentioned:


-- FLASH (working now.. not "coming soon", Fockers..!!!);

-- did I say BETTER HARDWARE already..? My Pre is falling apart after just 8 months...;

-- A BETTER BROWSER that doesn't have issues with several Banking websites, for starters.. I don't give a CRAP about 'the fastest' Browser... I just want one that WORKS!!;

-- Also: I want a webOS with all the features we're adding by means of patches BY DEFAULT!!;

I have been sticking with Palm for some time now, but I'm getting tired/running out of patience....
I can't believe(!!) that I'm starting to embrace the idea of getting an Android- or iPhone instead. Even though Apple - and even worse, AT&T - SUCK ASS BIG TIME, at least they offer a phone that is working VERY WELL OUT OF THE BOX...!!!

THE CLOCK IS TICKING PALM. Improve quickly, or you'll lose another 'fan' to the competition... soon!

I guess nobody at Palm gives a shit about it, including my opinion, anyway. -- Well, I tried.. (sigh!)

VOICE this day with bluetooth headsets required almost everywhere for driving, having no voice dial is a MASSIVE oversight...almost a deal killer for me when I got my Pixi Plus.,..

Here here! Voice command makes the Bluetooth experience MUCH better! I hope they at leas start adding the support to the API's for the homebrew developers LOL!

I agree completely. I think Palm should make this a top priority and make it a Software App that they can sell for $100.00 to get all the die-hards like me. That way I would be helping them with cash flow and so would thousands of users who miss this app more than any other app. Voice Command was the number one selling app for the Treo if I am not mistaken and in California it is a law that you must have "hands-free" and I am in my vehicle all day and need to call people most of the day.

Next after getting a $100.00 from all the die-hards like me, then reduce the price to $29-$49 and get the others who are only not buying because the price is too high.

Then finally, reduce the price to $9.95 for the final group. Yes, I was in Marketing for many years and the above was common.

Also, the classic Marketing study in College was the Poloriod Land camera. They would have made a killing if they would have given away the camera's, because the money is in the repeat sales of the film. Most companies that sell printers have figured this out, and "practically" give away the printers just to have you keep buying "their" ink cartridges.

Cell phones are not much different...hence the "free" phones at Walmart...get more people on your phone and then you can have them keep "upgrading" for each new hardware release.....

Palm just may be getting it!


Voice dialing, PLEASE!

The need to keep releasing updates to facebook then start on other apps my wish ESPN to make WebOS the best at social networking and sports and you will have a big market available to them.

Visual Voicemail.

Most awesome feature IMO, and we need it.

So far I like Youmail it works well in a couple of updates it might be better than what palm could have come up with.

But it only works with american phone numbers, and here in canada, or for the fans in europe, and asia, we feel no love.

I second this suggestion.

Many better APIs for developers are what's needed most! Free up us devs, and great things will happen.

Direct access to the file system, proper canvas support, far greater control over network packets.... the list goes on.

Unblock us and we'll amaze everyone. And it'll cost Palm a grand total of $0.

VOICE DIAL +10. If palm doesnt get it in the next major patch or two, I might just hardware upgrade to a windows mobile device again. At least then, I would be able to sign into msn, instead of googletalk...

Surprised nobody mentioned speed, but I'm sure the comments section will get a ton of that.

I use Gmail myself as just a standard IMAP inbox, so the lack of labeling and starring features don't bother me at all, though I know many people would like those supported.

I hope memory management is improved as well, unless Palm wants to give all of us original Sprint users a Plus for free to clear out the stock of it. ;)

But mainly, the biggest thing I want is microphone and voice memo support officially added in the APIs. Hopefully they continue improving the APIs with each release, but the mic is the big gaping hole in their current SDK.

As for voice dial, I'm sure we'll get it soon enough, there's been hints about it in the files. I'd expect that to show up in webOS 2.0 by the end of the year, but that's just a guess.

Hardware! I'm going to be the 1st to say it :) But I want everything the EVO got in specs plus WebOS.

I'd sell a kidney if it meant I got an EVO running webOS and a physical keyboard...

I'd throw in a liver just to sweeten the deal... and maybe to get a track ball.


I wish the original Pre had trackball instead of stupid home button

I'd like to see them fix that '10px minimum before registering a drag' design choice. I think that would clean up the UI and make a lot of 'perceived' lag disappear instantly. Especially to those comparing the Pre to an iPhone side-by-side. Of course, these memory issues would be nice if they also disappeared...

More access to push notifications the mojo messaging service open that up and it will be great.

Personally, I generally think the hardware (minus the battery) is decent. Especially with the 720mhz processor *unofficial* update.

I'd love to see better battery life. I use my phone ALOT, and really don't like the fact that if I want to use my phone the way it's meant to be used. I have to go out and spend $70 on a new battery. Which is going to make my pre look prego. I love webos. I bought a pixi. 1.5 weeks later. I took it back to sprint, and upgraded to the pre. Very strong product line. Just HORRIBLE battery life.

I'd also like to see FREE visual voicemail. I went from the samsung instinct to the palm pre. Pre is light years ahead of the instinct in most aspects, but the instinct had visual voicemail, and it could also be dropped without breaking :-P

1. a faster processor

2. better physical keyboard build quality.

3. an onscreen keyboard for those times when I just need to enter a letter or two to search contacts or something.

4. More launch screens that we can name (like in the old days).

5. Docs2Go Professional!!!

And a way to control my PC from my Pre that is easy to install and use.

Having seen the CNET accuracy test, its likely a blessing they've not made a supported airboard. Not sure why airboards are in such demand, the screen is quite small.


Better onscreen keyboard
Docs2Go Professional please!
With Bluetooth Professional

MORE PRECISION ON TOUCH SCREEN!!!!! I'm entering data or a password and I have to backtrack to make a correction because the screen isn't precise enough for me to move the cursor there with my finger. REALLY annoying.

1. Homebrew solves that.
2. Can't argue with that, that's a hardware problem.
3. Homebrew solves that too.
4. Clarify . . .?
5. That would be cool, I must admit.
Thing is, 1 and 3 (the biggest one being 1) have been solved using Homebrew. Technically, since the processor natively runs at 800 Mhz (Palm underclocked it to 500), I'd think it a calculated risk that pays dividends (especially with the noticeable speed/responsiveness boost).

you can turn on an on-screen keyboard. check out webosqi.

for more launch screens? go to

I'm current using the nux penguin that is digesting the mac apple.

I'd like to see a reasonably sophisticated desktop syncable notes and to do program. MarkSpace/Missing Sync has been threatening to update their pre offering for months, but nothing and no idea when. I've resorted to using my wife's ipod touch with a nice app that sync's with Google Docs. Evernote would work but we need something that allows the notes to reside on the pre, not just available via the net.

Really sad when you think how well Palm did these things with Palm OS.

Amen to this. Frankly I'm surprise that you, pmgrady11, are the only one requesting a hierarchical note app, residing on the Pre and syncable to the desktop. I used Natara Bonsai on my previous Palm OS hardware. And I can't think of a more productive business tool. Now I'm twisting myself into a pretzel to use Bonsai on the Classic emulation app (this app was designed to be used with a stylus).

The fact that we are the only two people calling for desktop syncable outline notes, tells me that the corporate users have already abandoned Palm. Let's hope that Palm returns to its first love.

That was a priority for me, but Chapura Echo does a great job organizing memos.

Voice dial

better Task/to-do functionality ie;
-integration of tasks with the calendar app.
-ability to add contacts to tasks and calendar events
-reoccuring tasks
-more sub levels of tasks, not just one

agenda view with calendar

ability to delete, edit, and reorganize the order of bookmarks in the tile view of the web browser

more search options and well as account availibilty in the you tube app.

and pretty much what everyone above me said

there is a nice agenda app in homebrew (though I also liked it as one of the native options on Palm OS calendar- it was my default setting/homepage).

and you can sort bookmarks on other setting, but tile layout would be nice too, not just list.


Whatever the issue is work it out. This is a major drag on sales. I've had 4 people ready to slap down their cold hard cash, until they realized DTG wasn't available.

The other amazing thing is the lack of interest from the "Editors", and just letting it go without any major follow up.

This is a major set back and hindrance to this platform.


MSN Messenger!!!

-AF camera
-larger screen

-more BT profiles (especially file trx)
-MSN messenger support
-more Launcher pages
-Google Maps/Sprint Navy landscape modes
-multi-select in email app
-improved garbage collection

I'm running a Sprint Pre.

blue tooth
docs 2 go
better memory management
hardware: better slider and larger screen and physical keyboard
faster processor, IO
external memory slot
even more RAM

Only fixing ONE thing will have no effect on the big picture position of WebOS in the market.

If you're going to do it do it right. Identify ALL the major things that are wrong hardware, software, appz etc and fix them ALL. Especially considering you're bound to get different answers from different people. Any notion that fixing one thing will have an impact strikes me as desperately flawed from the beginning.

In a perfect world, that's definitely the way to go. But since we, and even more Palm, are living a a world with LIMITED resources everywhere, how exactly do you suggest they do that?

They say they have cash, hire people. Personally i think they've screwed up their marketing so bad already that changes now won't have much effect. My personal opinion is doing it peicemeal won't change palm's future so either do what the public wants or don't be surprised when the consumer says we don't care what you've done.

Something else they could do is focus on software and license webos to save on the expense of manufacturing and supporting hardware.

I'd say look just at the fact that most of the responses list more then one item shows you you've got more then one issue.

Like my car right now is nice, but it's needs new brake pads, i have a nail in my right rear tire, 3 of the 4 tires have alignment wear and need to be replaced, and the car is way out of alignment. Only fixing one of those problems isn't going to fix what's ailing my car. for example, get new tires but don't fix the alignment issue and you'll just ruin new tires. Fix the alignment issue and don't fix tires and you then have tires with a wear pattern keeping a bunch of the tire off the pavement. I don't have the money to fix it all now but it doesn't negate the fact that it all needs to be fixed pretty close to at the same time to fix the steering issues in my car.

Now maybe they can't fix everything but they can address a lot. To think only one change will have an effect to me is nothing more then jaded wishful thinking.

I strongly agree, there might be things that we need but we need to give the developers of the system time to resolve any bugs. Just for info, since you are comparing the WebOS phones with iPhone, it took iPhone more than a year for them to incorporate most of their features on their phone, example, it took them nearly two yrs to have the yahoo email working. This only clearly shows that PALM is not doing anything with the WebOS since they have done this in less than a year. Just give them time and I know that will be able to satisfy our needs.

1) Battery life
The rest is secondary and not really urgent

2) Fix the memory leaks (too many cards error, ...)
3) Voice Dial (to use with my Bluetooth headset)
4) Decent version of Google Maps, seriously! Current version is just embarrassing.
5) MSN, ICQ, Yahoo and Facebook chat support in messaging
6) 100% compatible browser (90% is good, but Apple and Android a scoring 100 on ACID test. It's possible, so please just do it)
7) Audio and video codec support. (Fix the AAC+ bug, add other missing codecs, please. I just want my video and radio streams to play and not see an error because some codec is missing)
8) Adobe Flash support. Come on, talking about it for months, just release it already
9) Shazam... I just want that on my phone. Palm: Just give them a call, give them the APIs they need and ask them to do a WebOS version. (and while you're at it, also give Skype a call. I want that, too)
10) Camera macro mode / better focusing (I know, Pre has no autofocus, so add a software layer, that tries to improve on the focussing, so barcode apps, etc. become more feasable)

And as a last thing: Just get the current bugs fixed. Some of them are quite old and I've been patient, but now, I want them to be out of my way.
- Birthdates (for Exchange contacts) off by one day
- Spontaneous display brightness increase after switching the phone on
- Some browser bookmark thumbnails disappearing at times
- Lag switching on the device sometimes
- Spontaneous volume changes when switching on the device
- Time synchronisation and display (time sometimes off by a few minutes, different time displayed on top bar and standby screen)
- Touchstone 'battery charging' message that comes on spontaneously sometimes after the device has been on the touchstone for an hour or two


that's my point, too.

the small bugs are what aggravate me the most.

but i just know that palm has something big planned and will knock all of our socks off...

please fix that video player now. as i posted earlier i had this blackberry for a week and it would play a lot of the videos that won't even attempt to play in my sprint palm pre. it's better to have something play a little glitchy than not play at all. ya know?

and yes, get flash now! i feel like i'm part of a marketing gimmic to limit my online viewing to YouTube *!#$

Speed... 2 1/2 min reboot time, general sluggishness. I've missed calls because the phone app took too long to load.

Better way to handle conference calls

The DST issue

Clock mismatch issues @ lock screen

Email (hit refresh button -> have new emails! -> twiddle thumbs for 20secs -> emails finally show up)

Video recording sometimes hiccups and stops saving to the file, even though the recorder is still running.

I agree the small bugs are very annoying. You get the feeling that their firmware team isn't that big.

Hardware isn't as big a issue for me. Whoever designed the microUSB charger cover should still be fired.

EDIT: Make 1.4.1 a bug-fix-only release. Address all the bugs in 1.4.0 and fix them without introducing new features.

Flash for Pixi

I'd say the biggest thing is memory management. I'm still running ye ole' Sprint Pre, and I love it to death, but sporadic hanging, and Too Many Card errors are just frustrating. I'm not a big fan of the response delay when trying to dial a number in the stock phone app.

I don't use patches anymore, and it still has its moments of feeling overwhelmed when nothing is going on. Memory management, in my mind, should be more of a priority than a lot of the software things people have mentioned. We all know the Pre came a little underwhelmed out of the box with standard smartphone featues, but they're constantly improving on that front.

give Sprint a more capable device, or find some new ways to deal with running software on our current devices, so we don't feel in the dark ages compared to oir Verizon cohorts, whom we love to death (my girlfriend has the Verizon Pre and she loves it).


Can't say it enough apparently. No it's not palms fault devs don't know what their doing. When all those Explorers were having blowouts and crashing...was it Ford's fault? Or Firestone's for not manufacturing tires correctly?

I think it's funny how the main idea of the article is about IMPROVING webOS yet most of the people commenting speak of speed, HARDware, HTC's EVO, etc., which pretty are pretty much NON webOS IMPROVEMENTS. We already know Palm needs a newer blazing processor, more RAM, bigger screen (varied of opinions), and an overall better build quality (minimal plastic). back to the article:

How can webOS be improved? The only (OS) face of things I can think of are:

- Multiple selection/deletion via email.

- A revamped App Catelog w/ advanced search/sort capabilities.

- An upgraded Google Maps app that is equal to that of other platforms.

- A native task management tool.

- Visual voice mail and Voice dialing (safety first).

...that is pretty much all that I can think of for improving webOS on the OS side of things!

ps. The HTC Evo does have amazing specs, but it lacks 2 crucial things (IMHO):

1) webOS
2) physical keyboard

...and that giant virtual keyboard looks hideous almost taking over more than half the screen.

I'll hold out for "...the world's first webOS 4G phone!"


I think it's funny how the main idea of the article is about IMPROVING webOS yet most of the people commenting speak of speed, HARDware, HTC's EVO, etc., which pretty are pretty much NON webOS IMPROVEMENTS

This goes to Palm's decision to not only make the OS, but be the only manufacturer of the hardware. The two are very closely linked because of this, and they seem one and the same. If Palm licensed the OS and others had the ability to make the hardware, you'd see much less of people making this kind of comment.


I thought of this just now as I was walking to class...SENDING MULTIPLE PICS VIA MESSAGING! We can do it through email, why not text messaging?


They should just release the pdk and improve the browser.

Result: C++ and better performance overall since the OS is a browser and C++ tends to be faster than the html code that is normally used for apps.

PDK is released.

ADOBE FLASH! no "too many cards" no more random restarts. Speed, and hardware please!

ADOBE FLASH! no "too many cards" no more random restarts. WINDOWS LIVE MESSANGER! And improved battery please.

I'd like an "undo" function.


I'm takin' it back to the basics, the simple things that for some reason are STILL LACKING!

Why almost a year after release do I still need to have 23 patches loaded for small simple everyday stuff?

Sounds, notifications, ringtones, alerts, unread msg alerts, vibrate first then ring, call duration in the call log, battery percentage, Landscape PDF Viewing, the Date in the top bar, more launcher pages, timestamps in txtmsging.
Some of these should be made the norm others defaulted to off, but the option to turn them on(like blink notification).

In the Clock Application, when the alarm goes off, and in my no-glasses, tired, groggy stuper, press the "volume down" to silence the alarm, IT SHOULD SNOOZE, NOT SILENCE ALL ALARMS AND ALL FUTURE NOTIFICATIONS!!! (I can't be the only one)
Also the White Analog clock sucks.

Photos and Videos should have a better naming convention, like a date/timestamp.

(I can edit a video but not a Photo!!!!!1 WTF!?)

Auto-Refresh on the Browser needs to go. bad. (again I have this patched)

Why don't Sprint phones have the Mobile HotSpot software?
(yes this might be Sprint's doing but Palm should be pushing for this as it is a HUGE SELLING POINT. And isn't that what it's about?!)

The LED Torch or "Flashlight" should be standard. (debatable)

If my fingers are expected to use the tiny keyboard, then why are the launcher icons so large, why no options to do 4x4 or 5x5? They easily fit the 5 across the bottom on the Launch Bar...

Options, Options, Options, the lack there of.
This is a repeating trend with Palm.
They wouldn't need options if they'd just get it right in the 1st place.
It's the Little things.

New Hardware, some better apps, on screen keyboard, documents to go, and a better battery :)

A ton of my speed and "too many cards" problems went away when I unistalled Preware and the corresponding apps that went with it. I'm still running a theme, and 15 or so patches, but my speed increased greatly. Perhaps mine just wasn't installed right or something, but it worked for me. Maybe if I installed it again it would work fine, but I'd rather not mess with my good JuJu for now. Now that its running faster I typically have 5 cards up (sms, google search "agenda view, calendar, Cloud tasks, and email)and it runs quick - and when I open additional programs they open quick too.

That being said, and this may not be popular, I wish I would've stayed with the Sprint Hero. Now that 2.1 is almost upon us, and now that xda have a fully functional 2.1 rom available immediately, the problems I had with it will be mostly gone. Yes, android is for geeks, but I am one of those geeks. I think webos is fantastic, and I agree with Phonedog that it's the best OS, but it isn't getting the app support yet that Apple and Android are.

EDIT: It should also be noted that I'm using a Sprint Palm Pixi, not the Pre.

MotionApps Classic: This should have been included as part of the webOS core apps. In order to get mass appeal to the Palm Treo crowd, it would've gone a long way to know that your apps can be ported to such a new and exciting device. Also, multiple instances of Classic would be great so that you can run multiple PalmOS apps simultaneously (if possible).

Increased functionality for Contacts: Google Contacts allows you to group contacts, but this feature isn't in webOS (at least that I can tell). This seems like a simple feature that could be included in an update.

Contact Lists should be relatively easy, again something the Treo had but disappeared in the Pre. Other things on that same list include the simple ability to have many more OPTIONS for everything (ringtones, alerts, color themes, launcher view etc...), the general speed that a contact list is populated (way faster on my Centro), the ability to save text messages into a "Saved/Drafts/Templates" Folder,

But the most frustrating thing is the TMC Error (Too Many Cards) even if there is only one app open. The beauty of WebOS is multitasking, getting the the TMC error with ONE app open (ie. the Browser) is unacceptable. I also plead for Voice Dialing, more BT profiles, and a complete Do-over on the Google Maps app (again it worked faster & better on my Centro sans GPS)

How about a graphical Smilies menu in the Text Messaging app ? Press symbol twice and up pops a 8x8 box with 64 available smilies... (not just the 3 available today).

Consistency. So many of the complaints are pretty random. I'm not a gearhead and don't know if it's a software or hardware issue. Maybe both, but the issues were so random...makes it hard to fix any ONE problem I'd imagine.

For Legacy Palm Customers:
1. Better Data Transfer Tool/Desktop Migration to Cloud (existing one can't handle recurring appointments, or years worth of data, or thousands of contacts, or memos, etc.).
2. Match PIM functionality of old Palm OS Applications (memos, recurring appointments with end dates, calendar that shows text for events in most views, beam events/contacts, etc.).

For Business Users:
1. Docs to Go Premium (or at least the ability to edit).
2. Bluetooth printer support
3. Ability to import events/contacts directly from email or bluetooth transfer
4. Improved email support with Exchange, Google
5. Ability to add real locations, easily, to events, based on contacts or locations of contacts or old meetings or present location, etc.

For Power Users:
1. JSTop or garbage collection improvement
2. Ability to group applications
3. Utilities to handle issues/patches - "dedup" like utility to remove extra contacts/events, etc.
4. Ability to beam free games/apps/contacts/events/etc.
5. Better Media Player!!!!!! Think Kinoma or better.
6. Core or Very Popular apps from other platforms - music identification, ebooks, remote controls, etc.

Aside from aforementioned precentral suggestions...
1. A compass for AR, or a virtualized one. Everyone else is having a blast with this whole AR thing, webOS shouldn't be left out. It can do this. I think webOS can virtualize one that would work reasonably similar to what's in the iPhone, though probably not as well unless it's a hardware addition.
2. Luna needs to get a little more multithreaded and handle threads a lot better. I know, it's probably as much a webkit thing as a Luna/webOS thing, and it would probably need more RAM and CPU, but it would totally make a huge difference from a user perspective. Background tasks would be a whole lot more functional and multitasking would be a lot more useful.
3. NOTES! They're not quite there yet for me. I don't want to have to use the keyboard to jot something down. I want to be able to scribble something down with my fingertip. Of course, it should accept keyboard input as well, but I should be able to scribble an address or a name down if I need to without opening up the keyboard. A built in drawing app would be cool, for that matter...I know some artsy types who actually are holding out for that.
4. webOS really needs its DocView to become a whole lot more powerful. It needs to be able to make edits and handle basic office documents better. The code is out there for openoffice, I'd be happy enough if I could just get something reasonably similar to OO to work on my phone. And no, I don't want to use Google docs. I'd consider using a cloud based document system if it were locked down in my Palm profile, though.

Consistency. So many of the complaints are pretty random. I'm not a gearhead and don't know if it's a software or hardware issue. Maybe both, but the issues were so random...makes it hard to fix any ONE problem I'd imagine.

Amen to multiple select, move and delete in email. This feature is sorely needed.

visual voicemail
voice dial
also ways to scroll to the bottom of a page like the page up, page down, home and end keys on regular keyboards would be nice for the browser.
would also like to see a feature like copying a address clicking on it and then it takes you to navigation or google maps.
multiple select on emails would be nice.
sprint tv needs a pause, rewind fastfowards capabilities too

new hardware!!!

Like I said in another post, I'd like to see Palm take a few pages from Androids book. Also, I agree with blackmagic01. While I in no way expect all this to happen, here's what I'd like to see in webOS...

-Visual Voicemail
-Voice Dial & Voice Search
-Modifiable Home Screens (as well as the ability to add as many as I want.
-Widgets to be added to said home screens.
-Scenes so I can have my settings different for work and personal life
-Ability to add different Launcher pages (without the need for a patch)
-Desktop sync identical, if not similar to what Apple has for the iPhone.
-All of Google's coolest apps natively (i.e. Voice, Maps (a better version, with street view and compass interactivity), Maps Navigation, Goggles
-Live Wallpapers
-Ability to add Contacts to a homescreen.

Put all of this in a device whose specs, inputs, and outputs matches or exceeds that of the EVO (and is built just as well, if not better), but has an OLED (so the sliding screen will be vibrant, ultra thin, and allow the rest of the phone's thickness to be used for parts and the improved keyboard. Lastly, please lose the USB cover, it makes me damage the phone.

I wouldn't mind if it looked exactly like this.
(note the keyboard)

I've seen that a few days ago. Looks like a Frankenstein Pre lol.

You CAN add contacts to launcher pages.

If they can just fix up the software (the OS) issues first, then the hardware not being up to par with the other phones won't be so noticeable. They can, and will, come up with a new device by the end of the year, but the OS issues need to be addressed first!

SlingBox (I had it on my Treo and loved it during baseball season)

Netflix streaming

Skype Video Chat(obviously we need a front-facing camera, but it's great to share a chat between the kids and the grandparents)

Agenda widget (yes, I know this isn't a widget phone, but maybe a couple on the main page would be okay)

Wholesale adopt most of the patches (Add/Delete Pages, 4x4, landscape capability for everything)

Up to 8 icons on main page.

Microphone/Voice Recorder - hey, how about Karaoke???

most of these are not os updates, rather 3rd party apps.

we should have a landscape menu!!

Why did they post this non-critical article while we are in a battle with the Blackberry Bold?

The very moment this article was posted (and the voting article moved below the browser fold - the blackberry started to pull away in the voting after the Pre was ahead. had the sense to leave their article up all day to get the word out.

Is precentral trying to throw the game, when we were about to complete the second upset in this vote (we previously crushed the Nexus One).

Vote, and move that article back up, please!!!

google map is really bad. In terms of loading speed, it can take up to 15 seconds.
ALL webos apps need to launch faster.

In 1.4 the new "pre launch"(PL) card pulses ONCE per SECOND. I guaran-damn-tee your PL card pulses ONCE (i.e. 1 second) and loads the full app with the exception of Google Maps, App Cat, and Music (if you've got a lot of files)

Palm Anti-FUD Patrol

We pulled ahead until precentral posted another article in the top spot of their home page. What?

Please turn on the social media machine at Palm to get the vote out. Please send a message to precentral to fix that.

The blackberry pulled ahead within minutes of that change!

The Pre came from wayyyyy back to grab the lead, only to have Precentral mess it up. Needless to say, the site left their promotion alone.

Go Pre!

PLEASE HELP the Palm Pre beat the Blackberry Bold!!!

Palm needs your vote!
Call, text, e-mail your friends, relatives, coworkers to vote for the Palm Pre!

- Poll precentral and find out the top 15-20 patches and implement them into the base OS. Each optional, of course.

- Voice dialing, memos

- UI speed - sometimes can be a bit sluggish when it comes to registering clicks and drags

Those are my suggestions. =)

#1 Battery
#2 Speed
#3 Home Screen (Like HTC)
#4 Optional On-Screen Keyboard
#5 Voice Command ( Like Microsoft Voice Command)
#6 Better Google Maps
there is more but my battery is about to die.


A To Do list integrated with Google Tasks. What is the tried and true, step one in time management - a prioritized to do list! Palm has gotten so enthralled with its OS-ness and multitasking-ness, it has forgotten that what made it great was being the hands-down absolute best PIM anywhere. And don't get me started on Uselessversal Search (thank goodness for Google Account Search but it should have been unnecessary).

Jeff Hawkins carried around a small slab of wood for months prototyping what a great PIM would do. If Palm had done that prior to releasing the Pre we'd have a device it would be easy to produce an ad for about how it helps us manage our lives (and the stupid mic would be on the bottom of the keyboard slider and not mid-cheek).

1)A predictive text program would be great for people that type alot. The Nokia E71 has a great predictve text feature you can turn on or helped a lot with completing long words quicker and for misspellings....I also used it as a sort of word finder if I didnt know the exact spelling of a word by typing a few of the first letters I thought might be in the word and the program would automaticaly fill in the word or give me some suggestions. I found it to be extremely useful.

2)Another great feature was the voice dialing for bluetooth. Im a driver and its absolutely essential for safe driving.

3)Voice text was also a great feature I enjoyed on the nokia, it actually spoke out the contents of my text messages.

Subject and Flag

* recheck on Kadri *

Id say all these requests are rather outlandish in a way.

1. Just get the basics to be more consistent..

2. get the camera app to load up the same relative speed each time without black screening on occasion..

3. you improved the phone, now make it more improved. Remove that stupid option when i hit speakerphone that shows the volume toggle. it shrinks the screen when i select between speakerphone, sometimes even when speakerphone doesn't come on this volume toggle comes, it changes the screens focus and is a pain in the ass. Remove that and als allow universal search on both the call history and the dialer page. I shouldn't have to go back to the dialer to universal search

4. Merge the photos and videos together as one app and just call it media, i should be able to browse back and forth between both and not just when adding attachments

5. Add some patches into the regular update like adding pages to launcher, haptic feedback and a few others

6. Put LED Control to make it a flashlight.

7. Make all of the notifications customizable and controllable.

1. cpu - it works fine just as is especially with the patch. No need to add more juice. just make webOS perform better

2. Cries for Shazam - this app is only for hipsters that can't find a song because its too weird or nobody cares about it anyway. any normal person can hear 4 words in a song, google it and have the name in 10 seconds. This app is for hipsters, who listen to weird music that nobodys ever heard of, so they need this app just to name their idiotic music. (if you listen to symbals, while a woman screams and smashes glass in a tin can and calls it music then your an idiot, you deserve shazam)

3. More Ram - i still see too many cards even with the pre plus, just make garbage collection better.. if i close out an app, dont let threads stick around. Fix this and it will be more important than adding video in my book. Who cares if EVO or the new palm phone will have 1 GB of memory.. its useless if it will just fill up again with bogus memory hogs but not as fast

1. Better google maps support, this is no deal breaker but would be nice to be on par with the others

2. visual voicemail, this would be a nice feature, but not neccessary especially because i get less and less phonecalls and more and more texts/emails/msgs on some kind of communication medium

3. A new phone with specs on par with newer phones - again this is not needed if we just keep improving

webOS but for the spec feinds it would keep them at bay and not ready to jump at any new thing and call it the best sinced sliced bread

4. on screen keyboard

Ok now i guess people will yell at me.. i accept your opinions

actually I think that is pretty much spot on

I would like for WEB OS to included Calendar in the SEARCH as I use it to keep track of past events/completed recurring tasks.

Am I missing something? I've never, ever had a memory or card error and I am constantly doing lots and lots of things at the same time. I'm using a Pre Plus on Verizon.

My big mechanical worry is the headphone jack - which gave me my first problem the other day, but fixed instantly when I put it back in and out.

I think if there was one thing I would want on my phone it would be a official touchstone charger. Should not have to engineer one my self. Just would like something that wraps around the phone to hold it nice and sturdy while still being able to view the screen in order to take advantage of the navigation.

Should have had this from launch date and I am pretty surprised not only has palm failed to make money off a vehicle touchstone vehicle charger but no other 3rd party has cashed in on this slack.

I just want them to finish adding the advanced functionality of PalmOS. Lots of stuff my Centro does that my Pre doesn't. I know it might take some time, but that needs to be the focus.

Also for those who want a home screen like on the HTC devices, look at the new app Ultimate Wallpaper. It has your wallpaper and pulls in stock quotes, weather or rss feeds. These are the types of apps id like to see more of. If devs would start going the widget style route, we can have some fancy shmancy home displays. That shouldn't be an improvement to webOS though, that is a separate issue.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned it. Text selection for copy and paste needs work. The directional pad on my Treo 755p made this trivial. I can barely manage this on my Pre. I hope that something useful can be done with the gesture area to fix this.


Having a hard time with Option+tab eh there buddy boy? Cliff note version

-HOLD Option Key (Orange Pre\Grey Plus)
-Tap a word.
-Tap more words.
-Tap and drag over a word.
-Double-tap a sentence.
-Triple-tap a paragraph.
-HOLD Gesture, press: X=cut, C=copy, V=paste.



Palm Anti-FUD Patrol

uhm, on my Pre (sprint) I hold the up arrow/shift, not the option. Didn't realize before re double tap, that's cool

The google maps app is shite on the Pre Plus. It's so slow and takes forever even with Verizon's network?? It sometimes gets a accurate read, but sometimes its all over the map literally. I'm disappointed. That is a main function that needs to work for me consistently.

Lets be honest Android Google turn by turn directions rules all platforms right now and its free. Why is this such a struggle?

Beyond that:
- Faster and more snappy, I want all 600 of the processor to work without a patch.
- Some form of Photo app that allows simple manipulation and editing wtf?
- Voice functions and dialing
- No more double text entry
- battery life (should have just included a higher capacity battery in the first place)
- Scrolling on the web has checkerboard, I could do without that


The Google Maps app is shite. However, this is an article about how to improve WebOS, not apps that run on WebOS.

You're right, Google Maps turn by turn directions is amazing on Android. So, what GOOGLE needs to do is improve Google Maps for WebOS. This "is a struggle" because WebOS is Google's last priority after Android, iPhone, Blackberry, Windows Mobile, and Nokia.

Derek wrote about the lack of Google love for WebOS back in February.

by the time 2.0 comes out i'd like to see evo specs or better 10000 apps+, speed and bug fix

The more attention for the Palm Pre, the more Apps to be developed and improvements to come!

going on 4 days, no new apps. Also, will Palm ever get a good game that is not an Iphone ripoff. This phone has buttons! Please utilize them. I've been playing Madden Football on regular old phones for 5 years. Here we are 10 months into this grand experiment and no Madden Football. And even if it ever appears I'm quite sure it will be designed for the Iphone and not the Pre. Sad. Also, when will we get flash. I know......second half of 2010.......holding my breath

"Palm did a pretty solid job with the email client out of the gate"

Disagree. This is my biggest complaint about the Pre. I guess though, I'm spoiled by Goodlink and Blackberry. The Pre feels like 1990's hotmail.

It's slow and doesn't fully support the full EAS protocal. It also hacks the heck out of the typical Outlook formatting.


they need to fix the camcorder so it doesn't randomly stop recording. And we need the abiltiy to pause on the pre. I am a youtuber and I need pause on pre video for videos very bad. Check me out at McKhegans or WebOSCenter on youtube.


Err....During ANY video playback, TAP video, video controls appear...PRESS THE GD PAUSE BUTTON!!! C'MON ON WE EFFIN SERIOUS HERE WITH THIS!!??!!??

Palm Anti-FUD Patrol

threaded. gmail. conversation.


How about the ability to do a full sync so that all application data is saved on your desktop. Not just the Palm profile, but ALL application data. This would be such a life saver.


you're so smart. -1

Funny, after reading the lists and all the comments, there really is only **ONE** thing that has anything to do with the OS at all -- that is memory mgmt.

Everything else everyone comments on is applications (email, calendar, voice dial, etc.) or hardware (bigger screen, faster cpu, etc.).

So, all-in-all, I would say webOS is a HUGE success, they just need to clean up the apps that run on top of it, and keep improving hardware builds and introduce new models.

not like anyone is going to read the 120th comment in this thread but i basically agree with mikey47 and everyone that has mentioned the few important os level items:
1. memory mgmt
2. performance
3. battery
4. more apis

and from an apps standpoint, all of the apps need to be finished. since they are all missing customization options and/or useful features.

and let the hardware team focus on new devices!

What about improvements to the Messaging app? Has anyone ever tried to send a broadcast message to multiple recipients? And I'm not talking about just two or three, I mean upwards of ten. It's very poorly designed. Every time you select a contact, the contact list closes, and when you want to select your next contact, the list starts again at the top. The other problem with this is that as you select your contacts, your recipients all pool together at the top of the screen, but as you keep selecting more, it takes up more space on the screen until it almost completely conceals the contact list from view, making it impossible to select any more recipients. So you're basically limited to about ten or so contacts per message without having to start over. I love webOS and think it really has tons more potential for the future, but I find it completely ridiculous that it can't do something that my old phone, that wasn't even a smart phone could do with ease. Here is how I think it should change:

In the contacts list, check boxes should be placed next to every address for each recipient, allowing you to select which recipients will receive the message. Also, when selecting your recipients, the contact list should remain open until it is no longer needed.

As a side note, although I love having a full QWERTY keyboard, having predictive text as an option would also be nice.

You guys know you can setup Gmail to delete into the Archive right? Just set your Trash folder to All Mail.

Flash, a return policy on the app store, and what I call "family sharing," which is a way to install an app on multiple devices at areduced price.

CMON!!! Please VOTE in the Pre vs Blackberry laptop mag march Madness!!

Reading through the comments makes me understand why the nerds get beat up by the jocks in high school. ;-)

Palm needs to do better at tweaking the performance of the regular pre, they seem to be excited about the pre plus, but kicking original pre users to the curb.

Here's my list of improvements(regular pre especially)
-Memory needs to clear itself without reboot(pandora won't load if you use your phone for a couple of days without rebooting, which takes about five minutes for me)
-touchstone options in the launcher so you don't get stuck with your screen on whenever you charge your phone(i like to sleep in the dark).
-faster dialing on the phone app.

how bout email. On obsolete Insstinct coulld select multiple photos as attachments for emails.. On Pre have to go through multi step hell just to attach 5 photos to an email...this is a disgusting way of doing things Palm!!!! Sorry for mistypesbig clumsy thu,bs...too much wine

Visual voicemail, voice dialing, improved universal search, SPEED, camera zoom, more intricate emailing options, more apps, more interactive calendar options (map or GPS an address, invites), improved GPS functionality, some kind of improved document and spreadsheet editing, video conferencing, improved battery life.... That should keep them busy for a while! By the way Palm: keep up the good work! This is the best OS I have ever used by far!

Sure: battery should be the number 1 priority for Palm. We need around 4 more hours of battery life, that is like 50% more than current. Talk to Sony or somebody else that makes laptop batteries and get advice.

Second: Palm should make a new team dedicated to analyze which availables patches should be part of the core OS already. Patches does a great job on device usability, that is the real secret on selling more more and more. We have to make this phone a very success story, or Palm will be bought by somebody else (again!).

Third: Overclocking. Yes we need a faster device. Palm should study that area very deeply. The secret behind the Windows OS rise is that more resources were available upon a time a new OS version was released. Memory (internal, for OS basic tasks use) is another pending task, but much harder than saving CPU cycles. Many features can depend on faster devices, even new APIs can depend on this factor. Please go ahead!


Proxy support, cannot beleive we still don't have this most basic feature. Also BT file transfer.