Rumor: webOS update to fix app install limit due soon 64
Anybody who has read our articles on the way that Palm has chosen to limit app installation space has ended up shaking their heads. And it seems that some heads have been shaking at Palm as well, with multiple sources telling us that Palm not only is working on an update to fix the limit, but that the update is due in “a matter of weeks, not months.” Apparently the resolution is similar in nature to what the Fair Dinkum app managed and Palm is currently testing the update internally to ensure long-term stability.
Couple this with rumors we’ve been hearing that the “parity” update for European Pre phones will bring them up to webOS 1.3 and that it should happen in November (as in weeks away), hopefully this limitation will be gone in short order and we can start complaining about smaller issues instead.
You were about to note that we forgot to tell you to take rumors with a grain of salt, but ah! - we just did.
64 Comments
I wish it were days, not weeks. but hey, at least they are acknowledging this problem right? let's hope the fix will come relatively soon.
I usually go through great lengths to be patient and defend Palm, but I totally agree. This needs to be fixed YESTERDAY, not in a "matter of weeks."
... And where the hell is my visual voicemail?? LOL!
And with that update, the ability to add more pages for icons!!!
Visual Voicemail? You can't be serious. It will come eventually, but is not anywhere near basic functionality that has to arrive ASAP or else. Not to mention the licensing fees Palm will have to pay to Klausner Technologies to enable it.
Finally, a level-headed, informed blogger.
+1
I bet this fix only solves half the problem and the tiny partition will remain unchanged.
Exactly, the Fair Dinkum app doesn't solve the partition size limit.
Agreed, I have the same concern. Fast resolution probably equals no partition size change :( But, I will say the Fair Dinkum App Limit removed the problem for me, and I've not run into a memory limitation since then. If everyone gets that level of fix, it may be ok (for now).
Fast solution? Didn't you hear, the solution is weeks away because Palm is testing the long term viability of the solution. Plus I am pretty sure Palm has been aware of the issue for a while. And the fact that there are more WebOS devices emerging, makes me put my stock in a REAL solution from Palm.
I'm still hacking away at the problem. I'll take it on faith that Palm is smarter than me and figured out how to store the apps in /media/internal. But my gut tells me they're going to go with a kludge and so I'm still working on the problem.
Short explanation: Palm needs to add one of the encrypted FUSE filesystems to the device and ensure that apps like PDFViewer don't rely on file permissions in order to work. After that it's a walk in the park.
The partition size limit will remain, unless the reformat the flash. If they do THAT, we will lose all applications already installed, all stored music, video, etc, etc.
However, if they did that, they would need to work out a complex and flexible way of handling partition resizing on the fly, or virtual/user type filesystems. 'Cause if not handled correctly, we will just end up losing space on the USBstorage mountable partition.
make it happen palm!
i can't spend money on the apps that will make you money until you get rid of it
It better fix more than that. Why is it that independent developers seem to be able to fix many of the problems in days, and its taken Palm months to even get this far with the OS? I know, I know. Internal testing, etc, etc. Come on, it's time for Palm to man up and start really fixing things. All they seem to be doing is tweaking. The OS is nowhere near refined enough to be at the tweaking phase.
Independent developers can crank them out faster because if the fix does not work for everyone, there independent, what are you going to do? they are cut more slack if something does not work, palm does not get the luxury. If palm releases a update it better work for everyone, and if does not, they get hell for it.
In regards to tweaking: tweaking has a faster development period then substantial updates, so of course we are going to get more tweaks then new features. They very well maybe making new features, it just takes longer. New features also have bigger testing periods, because there is more new code to debug.
This is not to say that I do not want faster updates, but this is a brand new OS, and we're expecting it have features that other phones did not get tell 2.0 or later, or do not have period.
You summed up exactly what I wanted to say. Thanks for saving me the time. 8^)
you definitely took the words right out of my mouth lol.
I don't disagree about what you said. But the patches that have come out have all seemed relatively stable, and they have all been for major changes, not just little tweaks. Independent developers don't have the same responsibility that Palm does, which is why they can get them out in days. I am not suggesting Palm makes major updates in days, but so far we haven't seen any of the really big updates we've all been asking for since the phone came out (a decent e-mail app, better synergy functionality, on-screen keyboard, selectable system sounds, video recording, etc, etc). Heck, some of these things are already written into the code, and for some reason have not been activated yet (e.g. LED notifications).
And yet, the top two things I have needed the most have not been addressed at all by Palm, homebrew apps, commercial apps, nor patches:
* Audible reminder/nags for missed notifications (which should be relatively easy)
* Voice dialing/control (which would be difficult).
I love seeing all the patches, but the only one that I have found really useful (for me), so far, is the ability to add more launcher pages. And that Palm could have easily added.
(And Palm, if you do read this- if you DO add that option, please let us TITLE the launcher pages, and have an option for alphabetizing/auto-arranging the icons!)
Yes, TITLED launcher pages would be perfection
I think TITLED launcher pages is a lil tacky, and takes away from the "invisible" nature of the UI/OS. But the option of having it would be great for those who want.
I just don't get how Palm could have made the decision to take such a big step backwards from the Treo. Yes, we have multi-touch, and the cards system is great, but most of the basic things we loved about the Treo (which kept us buying them even when other operating systems were actually from this decade) are painfully missing.
App organization and page customization - Alllllll the more reason for Palm to get some sort of Desktop App! That would be nice 8-)
Ok, yeah, I would like to set my own partition values, but realistically 256Mb is plenty for me. That's a lot of apps, considering the big ones are 1Mb. (How many launcher pages will I need to organize 256 apps??? And, yeah, I know, there will be some that are bigger.) At least we won't be stuck with an arbitrarily low number, and will get to use the (almost) full partition.
This can't be a rumor. If Palm hasn't been tracking this in the last few days, then they are BLIND!
And, fwiw, I don't care what order Palm takes care of their operating system as long as the updates keep coming. This was a must do since the press/blogs had taken this story up in the past couple of weeks, and had slammed Palm for it, even in the wake of opening up the app approval process.
Palm is showing itself to be responsive to complaints. Can't be all bad.
Jeebus, you'd think that in a thread talks about how Palm is obviously aware of the problem and that there is a fix in works coming soon, people would lay off the whining, but I guess not (though to be fair, I'm somewhat worried about the fact that it doesn't seem like it will be as deep a solution as I expected).
In any case, here's a Reality Check (TM): they're releasing a point level upgrade less than 2 months after they released the last one, and about 5 months after the .0 release. This is honestly and truly breakneck speed, guys. Calm down.
awe geez already? I just got all my tweaks/mods in order.
+1!!
;)
I still don't get how that Fair Dinkum app works. What exactly IS the app limit? I thought the actual limit was the 256mb partition? How does Fair Dinkum get around this if it doesn't resize that partition? Which then makes me wonder what exactly is Palm going to to do to "fix" that?
that's a good question, and if you want the technical details, I would suggest that you follow the link through to Rod's post in the forums, and from there you can see the post in his blog as well. Basically, though, it has to do with the way the webOS installer checks for space on the partition, which would limit you to a certain number of installed apps, and it would count all of your homebrew apps, and patches in that number. You never even had a chance to use your entire partition. Rod's program simply changes how the installer calculates the apps.
I believe it is just modifying the way the installer calculates how much space apps are using. Thus, it makes better use of the space available. The real hard limit is the size of the partition. (At least, that is my understanding by reviewing everything)
The current installer apparently stops at 64mb when there's ~200mb of space in the partition. Looks like a bug (just overly cautious?), but Fair Dinkum lets you use more (all?) of the existing space. Not as good as 6gb, but a significant improvement. As someone else said, at an average of 1mb/app that's over 200 apps ... not bad.
And to top that off, I know _some_ of the apps are already putting a lot of their media files into /media/internal/.app-storage (Forbes, Short Covers, and Flash Cards are some on mine) which would cut down a lot on the size of the installs on the app partition. Hopefully some of the bigger programs (why does Who Wants To Be A Millionaire need 11Mb??? I am never installing that game just 'cause that is ludicrous!) will figure that out for themselves, and help us end-user types save some app space.
Oh yeah, and the installer _will_ still stop you when the partition reaches 90% (what it obviously was designed to do.) I would do the math on 90% of 256Mb, but I'm too tired. Nite Nite.
230.4
the 10 or so feedback messages I've been leaving on palms web site everyday for a month must have done the trick :)
the 10 or so feedback messages I've been leaving on palms web site everyday for a month must have done the trick :)
the 10 or so feedback messages I've been leaving on palms web site everyday for a month must have done the trick :)
if they were at all like the three repeats you just put, I doubt it.
:P
we should start calling you johnny three-three-three?
I hope the App Catalog jumps out of Beta soon after this fix
the 10 or so feedback messages I've been leaving on palms web site everyday for a month must have done the trick :)
I'm so sick of Palms horse shit. They are really trying to save money and if anyone doesn't think so, then you're completely blind. They are doing it at the USERS expense. "But tntsniper, this is good news, they are going to release a update to fix the problem".. Ummmmm... has anyone else seen the pattern here? Palm screws up, WebOS Internals or some joe schmoe fixes it and then a month later Palm has a fix. This is complete garbage.
I've honestly never owned a phone that seemed SO amazing, yet made me want to spike it on the ground as hard as possible. Palm, quit with the games, get it done right, the first time. The apps are jokes, the GPU is useless with out you making drivers for it. This phone is turning into another Instinct.
Ummm hello, open source. That's what open source is let your actual users fix things they find to be broken.
Don't like it go get a winmo
Open source? Please. Palm may not be throwing legal punches at developers like Apple, but WebOS is far from open source. The SDK is very limited, as many have attested to, and the patches go beyond what the official SDK would allow. Palm doesn't really care because it shuts most people up in the mean time, which allows them to continue to drag their feet.
With all due respect to this poster...
With the complexity of these smartphone OSes today, how and why are we expecting any different turnaround on updates/changes/fixes to a complicated OS than we are from the desktop/server OS vendors? Sure we get critical updates for security items from them, but feature fixes and enhancements usually wait a LOOOOOOOOOONG time.
WebOS is no less complicated. It's broad reach in capability requires (as has been said ad nauseum) MOUNTAINS of regression testing every time they have a fix. And the comparison to the end user developers just plain isn't fair, equal, or justified. Anything you get from them is "user beware." No offense to them of course, many of them are doing brilliant stuff, but they simply aren't responsible for all of the OS like Palm is.
My own humble opinion? I think Palm's response to this stuff is quite remarkable, given some of the other players in this space. To respond to a challenge/problem from your user community in a matter of weeks, rather than quarters? Amazing I say.
As you say, and I wholeheartedly agree, this is an amazing OS. Give them more than 18 minutes to reach its potential.
I honestly just want a major performance update from palm. I want them to do something to improve to how the phone reacts to what the users do.
I must say that all the updates so far have not cost me anything. I have been using ubuntu for a few years now. And while they off paid and community support you can almost always find a fix.
that is support. And honestly I think palm is doing a nice job.
lets not forget about all the people doing homebrew as well. They are helping to show what the phone can due...approved or not. And on a selfish level they fill the need I have from my pre quite well.
so lets take a step back from the naysaying and enjoy our phones.
kk thx
I must say, it is rather frustrating. We have been reporting this app limit problem for weeks (months?) and only now Palm seems to be paying attention. *sigh*
I am sure they have a lot on their plate. Quite frankly, I would probably prioritize this issue rather low also.
They probably didn't expect such a huge homebrew selection so soon/fast. Also, most people really don't need to (or want to) install 40+ apps. I have installed every app I thought might be remotely interesting, and still have not hit the limit, myself.
We all expect they will improve the situation... at least there ARE rumors and talks about the app limit being improved/fixed, and even a patch to help (Unlike the things *I* really need, like yesterday, to make the phone work right for me, which have not been addressed or discussed at all.)
Derek - your getting good mileage out of my screen shot!
:)
Here are 5 pieces of chocolate for you because I see it will make you happy. I said I wanted it yesterday and it was 9 pieces that I asked for. Waaa....waaa....rain drops
Here are 5 pieces of chocolate for you because I see it will make you happy. I said I wanted it yesterday and it was 9 pieces that I asked for. Waaa....waaa....rain drops
in the words of justin timberlake.. cry me a river! hahahahahahaha!
Couple more apps and update to Shortcovers and Acu radio are now available. About 150 apps at last count.
People giving Palm flak for this saying that the webos internals people keep fixing things before they release a patch is really unfair.
The biggest reason here being that the fix is just a bandaid for the issue. The patch released substitutes a system command with a wrapper to return what the app catalog wants. This is not a real fix at all, it is just a work around to bypass limitations.
I would much rather Palm put time and energy into a solution and fully test it to make sure it works well. The hack might work well but its not really elegant or a long term solution.
Plus if it weren't for palm using an open platform in the first place nobody would be able to log in and fix ANYTHING. We would be waiting for Palm to do any little change you want to make, and in some cases things they never plan on doing.
I crack up at the comment that "most apps are 1MB or less." There are a multitude of apps that are over 1MB and some between 5-15MB! Have you looked at the App catalog lately? That eats up space quick. I don't want 100 apps, but I can't even add the one or two I want on top of the 30 I have. Even more frustrating is that I deleted over 10MB worth of apps and can't add a 1MB app???
It's ridiculous!
well, it's true. Most of the apps are less than 1Mb. I was actually surprised at the number of apps that were less than 100k. Of course, hopefully the large apps are putting their media in /media/internal, and not in the app partition.
Nice
and in the next update hopefully a full featured messaging app and not relying on email fuctions as much for dealing with attachments
The OS really needs a simple slider that we can adjust how much of the 8GB is devoted to USB----OS. If you have too much on the USB side, it just won't allow more adjustments.
KISS...Keep It Simple Stupid
You meant that ironically, right?
Are you joking? A simple slider? You cannot partition hard disks on the fly like that!
I believe there need be no partition at all between the app memory and media storage memory and somehow the apps directory be hidden, and somehow un-unhidable, during USB connection. That way the media and apps share the same memory.
Well, you could, but what it would take is to look at the entire volume a little differently. Let's say we we set 2 real partitions, one with 1.5Gb of space reseved for the OS itself (no apps, no nothing but the OS) and another partition with 6.5Gb of space for everything else. Then within that second real partition, you could set up virtual partitions to any size you want. This is kinda like how diskspace used to work back in the days of DOS 6 (anyone besides me remember that???)where the second partition was a compressed volume, and you could manipulate volumes within that volume however you wanted on the fly (and they would manipulate themselves depending upon the type of data you saved on them.) There was one major drawback though - one error in writing to that new volume meant the corruption off the entire thing, which is probably why they don't use it anymore. Of course, we wouldn't be looking to compress that volume, so if we could do it, it might be more stable.
And, of course, that would all be very hard, and way beyond my personal level of expertise! ;)
Everyone that complains that bug fixes, feature additions, and alterations should magically happen in days need to get a clue. It is not possible to to do everything that has to be done for these things in a matter of days. Seriously all ya'll need to go to college learn to be a programmer and then work in the field on a project of the magnitude of an OS so that you will shut up about things not having already been taken care of. A simple change to a single line of code can have unknown results in other parts of the software so in depth testing has to be done on every little change to make sure that problems aren't being caused by the change.
The alternative is to let the public be the testers and push out every code change to them. But then all ya'll whining about the stuff isn't pushed to the public yet would complain that the public is being used as the testers. It is actually amazing how much stuff they have done in the span of time they have had considering they don't have the amount of programmers that say microsoft or a big gaming company has.
But what really gets me is so many of the complainers are expecting webOS/pre to have everything every other non-smart or smartphone has in it from the start. And that simply is not possible for anything that is 1st generation. Otherwise the product would never hit the market. And by the time it included everything every other has at the time they started making it, they still would not have every thing that every other has because while they were holding out to add all the current stuff all sorts of new stuff would be out and need to be added. So they nor any other company has a choice but to added, modify, and fix some things after launch.
+1. Amen.
I don't understand, as I said in an earlier comment, why we would hold these smartphone OSes to any higher standard than we do desktop/server OSes. These smartphone OSes are arguably just as complex. and it takes FOREVER for a desktop/server OS to get an update out.
Just sayin. There needs to be a better grip on reality here.