SFR outs the Palm Pre 2: 1GHz processor and 512MB RAM | webOS Nation
 
 

SFR outs the Palm Pre 2: 1GHz processor and 512MB RAM 437

by Derek Kessler Tue, 12 Oct 2010 8:22 am EDT

Palm Pre 2 Considering how tight of a lid Palm and HP have been keeping on details about the next Palm device, we were surprised to see it pop up on the website of French carrier SFR (who recently disappeared the Pre Plus). It’s official: the Palm Pre 2 is coming.

Yeah, you’re interested. Here’s what details SFR dropped:

  • 1GHz processor
  • 512MB RAM
  • Same design as the current Pre series, but with a “flatter screen” (we’re supposing glass) and “more refined design.”
  • Update: as arthurthornton notes in the comments - if you look closely that finicky USB door has been removed and replaced with a simple, exposed MicroUSB port. Looking more closely the finish on the edge is matted - so it looks like that crack-prone plastic we've been dealing with is a thing of the past.
  • Update 2: PreCentral member thomas92 notes via email that SFR also says that webOS 2.0 will bring a faster boot time. We really need to work on our French, it seems.

Additionally, our rusty French translation yielded this until-now unannounced webOS 2.0 feature: push. Specifically, SFR is talking about Facebook push integration (touting it as “the great innovation of 2.0”) with messages, events, wall postings, and chat. We’re not going to read too much into that, as we would hope that Palm would integrate push into more than Facebook. So either SFR is overreaching, or they’re not telling us everything about push and instead are focusing on what customers want to hear about, i.e. Facebook.

Of course, there are battery life and performance improvements, but if the way SFR is writing it, these might be better than the usual negligible bumps. And if you were wondering what the device codename could be, SFR’s given it away in their unedited image name: Roadrunner.

And, before you ask, no mention of price or release date.

Source: SFR; Thanks to JMM for the tip!

UPDATE: SFR wised up and pulled the page down, but we're the crafty evidence-preserving types. Screenshot after the break!

Palm Pre 2 on SFR

437 Comments

Wonder what Roadrunner HD is like.

Can we make it official that we call this the Pre Double Plus, with it's shortened version, Pre DP, appropriate puns and all?

There is another picture of it here.
http://palm.sfr.fr/news/

And Google translates the second to last paragraph as:
"Finally, the new version 2.0 optimizes the battery life of your Palm, which becomes faster and more powerful, especially at startup."

That second picture to me looks like like a more solid build quality. And while I know it is a "render" I much prefer the overall matte look to the finger print prone glossy plastic.

The carrier/(SSID if patched!!!) is in Chinese.

Those Chinese characters appear to be rendered well for being so small. Can the current resolution do that?

I am far to lazy to go looking for the post but if recall correctly, in addition to roadrunner logs, there were also roadrunner hd logs- with 640 x 960 screen resolution, in this tease there's no mention of those details, so I guess we'll have to wait.

I really hope Roadrunner HD is the US release and we'll all feel special again.

My strong suspicion is that we're looking at a market strategy for Palm-branded products that consists of five lines of portable webOS devices. Three with keyboards:
1) Pixie successors are the low end,
2) Pre successors (like this one) are the mid range, and
3) The Roadrunner HD (the next Treo?) is the high end.

There will also be slab devices:
4) The "mansion" with a phone, and small, and
5) The PalmPad without one, and big.

All will be on the market by the end of the first half of 2011, but not necessarily on your carrier of choice.

HP will release other stuff (printers, etc.) under its name.

I doubt they'd run 5 devices like that. My first impression was that they would run 3, a slider, a slab, and a tablet where they would continue the Pre line as the "low-end" and release a "high-end" to compete with Android and iPhone. After seeing the Droid Pro though I could see them doing 4 lines and continuing the Pixi form factor as well as the "low-end".

I'm hoping that they don't pull the same stunt they did with the Pre/Pixi and the Plus versions. If they do different versions this time hopefully those versions will just be world phones rather than upgraded hardware specs taunting those on networks not offering the upgraded hardware.

Well, it's pretty clear that the Pre 2 is a mid range device. They clearly need a high end device, too. Are you suggesting that that is the slab? Given that the Roadrunner HD is "out there" and the "mansion" is supposed to be the slab, and that there's no way the two devices are the same thing, that doesn't sound right.

Not that the roadrunner HD couldn't be some kind of Super Pre. That'd be consistent with what they have now (Pre+ is the high end, Pre is the mid range, and Pixie is the low end); that is, there are meant to always be two different specs of Pre. Perhaps the Roadrunner HD is the Pre 2+. Of course, there are two Pixies, too; that I expect to see come to an end.

In order to have only four lines at a time, they'd have to phase out the Pre 2 or the Pixie pretty quickly. Perhaps they are ditching the candybar...but given their heritage, I doubt it.

So, no, I think five lines it is.

Five sounds pretty plausible. Pre2 in 2010, a couple more handsets closet to CES and 2-3 more by June. This is HP, and they never "apple" themselves to a single form factor or homogeneous functions between devices. They could easily have a dozen distinctively different phones by this time next year if they have any success at on on sales.

I see this as a stop-gap phone. Something to keep them in the game until CES when they do a big launch. If this is it for the next year, that's bad. If mansion is the only other form factor before July, that's bad. I think Pre2 will address some of our current concerns. No, it wont satisfy the mouth breathers that need a 4.5" screen and streaming porn, but it should have the horsepower to and RAM to run smoother and faster, and run like Rubi promised us the first Pre would. I just hope they have a lot of the missing API's done. I dont want to see another partial device or O/S.

Big question, does the new OMAP do double the speed at half the battery? Or double the speed with the same drain? Still badly short on battery life I fear, but commitment to the formfactor might make it easier to buys a jumbo battery. Palm would do themselves a favor if they could offer a pro-grade battery with touchstone back.

i'm glad to see any device potentially be released right know, it's a step in the right direction. I hope you are right about the plan. I need a PalmPad & an ugrade Pre with better specs then Pre2 would be nice too!

Third Picture!!!

http://palm.sfr.fr/

And there go the funny Chinese characters and the 1x/3g bands.

Pre Squared (a 2 in superscript)

What? Nobody's noticed or complaining about the silver bar that seems to have replaced the original Pre's LED button? Do you think that thing is going to blink when you get a new message? And if I'm expected to shell out another couple of hundred bucks for a new phone, it damn sure as hell better have a different look to it then my existing phone (which is already overclocked @ 1 GHz.). Jesus HP/Palm, is it really that hard to come up with a little better/different design? It's called imagination, use it!

This is no different than the Pre Plus on Verizon and AT&T. It's actually nothing there. The button is absent all together. The Pixi is the same way. When it illuminates, what you called a Silver bar, and is actually an LED is displayed. And yes, this happens just like it does on the original Pre. It glows whenever there is a notification.

This looks to be the final final final nail in the HP/Palm/WebOS coffin in my opinion. Nobody cares about this phone anymore.

I have always felt a re-launch of sorts needed to happen with new hardware to erase the Pre(mom phone) stereotype away from the public's mind.

I think this is a horrible idea and will fail even with millions upon millions put towards advertising.

With 10 YES 10 Windows 7 phones coming out, Iphone 4 coming to Verizon Wireless this is what HP is putting out to compete?

Dreadful!

I hate like hell to swallow that pill, but I think you're right. I don't know if it's the final nail, but it's awfully close. All this time and they come up with something they should have come up with in the first place? I'm a loyal palm freak, but this is getting to be too much.

I think hp/Palm is continuing to try to be like the Iphone model where you keep the same form factor and improve on it i.e, Iphone 1,2 and 3...I think this devise will fail because the masses won't be able to tell the difference from old to new. It is good news for webos fans.

Windows Phone 7 is going to fail epically. Just watch, its gonna be fun. They came to the market too late.

you're a fool. look how late to the game xbox was and how much money they threw at that

Microsoft is going to throw enough money at WP7($500million) that it will end up being relevant in the smartphone arena... doubt WP7 they will be profitable for years. Microsoft needs to, is willing to, and can afford to... take a loss for awhile to get market-share. It's the same strategy they used when they entered late into the console market with Xbox.

@imgreenlantern2

That's your opinion and your def entitled to it but FACTS fly in the face of FUD.

Palm added 200,000 webOS users last quarter (to 2.6 MILLION) with the same old hw and no adverts. GIVING you 100,000 users defecting to other OS's (unlikely) that's STILL a 50% gain in users with nothing changed.

This...will...bring...the...noise. ;)

That's crazytalk.

You're entitled to your own opinion of course - but you make the mistake of assuming your own opinions are universal.

1) Plenty of people still care about this phone - otherwise this site would be well less lively.
2) There's no need to relaunch and erase any stereotype - mom or otherwise. Most people have never seen a Pre to begin with (fail marketing campaign combined with lack of resources for continued push)
3) This is actually a great idea as many current Pre fans got it because they did like it. The main problems are battery and lag and a non-negligable percentage of phones with build issues. Fix that and a Pre-like model is a great choice for many people. Even the current Pre still has untapped powers (3D acceleration hardly used).
4) The number of W7 phones announced is entirely irrelevant. We'll have to see if W7 will take off at all - let alone be a success.
5) It's obvious that there'll be a range of HPalm Webos phones next year. I'm sure there'll be at least one with silly high MP camera that serves no purpose except to make files huge - because resolution beyond 2-4 MP is useless and a waste of resources for regular pictures.
6) There's plenty of people that *don't* want a 4" phone. That's nice for watching movies - but otherwise sucks. Those who wanted that above all else already got an android phone.

IMHO - if HPalm gives us a better Pre and a few models to cover the range of tastes (candy, slab, way-too-big) they will start to eat the market (assuming a decent marketing campaign).

honestly i think his opinions are a lot closer to most consumers then most pre central readers opinions are. I mean if Palm was already offering what consumers wanted wouldn't they have bought tons of Pres and not have them on shelves? And if they didn't like that why would they like essentially just the same phone with a spec bump? I don't think they will. But we'll see. i kinda want them to release this exact phone as their only phone in the u.s. just to see who's actually right. To see if this will be a great success or will it get very little marketshare like the current pre and having reports of declining sell through and dropping sales just months after launch like they had with the original pre.

Consumer opinion shifts as quickly as the direction of a flock of sheep. If the Pre had been an epic fail then it would be a problem, but most consumers haven't even heard of it and so haven't built a negative association with it.

It's got a faster processor, more RAM (most of as still have Sprint Pre's) and looks likely to have a glass screen and improved build quality. What more can you ask for from a Pre2? There appears to be nothing about screen res so that could stay the same or be boosted. Ditto storage (a pretty easy upgrade). This could certainly be a 1ghz, 512mb ram, 32gb storage setup with the 3.1" screen bumped up to 300ppi (or higher since 300 is NOT the magic number for the human retina, it's actually over 400) running WebOS 2.0.
Ignoring my conjecture, It's not meant to be their next gen device, it's the next gen of the Pre form factor which is likely to be their mid-range device.

I agree. there's no wow factor for this. The same form factor isn't popular. i'm gonna assume it has hd recording even though there's no word of it but it be stupid not to have it. But i can't see more then people that just like palm buying this. I wouldn't. I can't see this being much more compelling then the current pre. This seems amazingly obvious to me. I have no clue why HP would think this would work. I mean for their sake i hope they have much bigger plans for the u.s. phone. But i don't think they understand, not what current pre users, but the majority of potential smartphone users are looking for any more then Blackberry did with the torch.

I won't waste my money on it because I'm not getting locked into another Pre for 2 years. I don't think the design of the original Pre was strong enough to copy it again. I may have understood it if they increased the screen size to at least 3.5 inches.

And why no mention of 4G capability? I definitely won't even consider buying this if it's not 4G capable.

Also, exactly HOW can the Pre's screen get any "flatter"?

Does Europe have 4G? who's to say the american version won't be 4G? and turn your Pre face down on a table, you will see that its not flat.

The Windows phones will have all the impact of the Zune and the KINs.

i am more interested to kno how fast webos 2.0 is. one of the other gripe the pre has other then the build quality was how slow webos is/was.

Maybe it's just me, but the icons on the quick launch look super crisp and full of contrast. Maybe this is the HD.

dude are you serious?

A - it's a render
B - it wouldn't matter anyway because you're viewing it on your screen

Eh, one can hope, right? I for one like the size of the current Pre's screen, so if it had a higher resolution paired with the previously uncovered specs, I'd consider this a worthy "2".

Interesting info from the EXIF data:

IPTC

* Model Version = 4
* Record Version = 3
* Caption/Abstract = Palm Roadrunner photo shoot
* By-line = Hunter Freeman
* Object Name = Palm Roadrunner
* Date Created = 2010/06/10
* City = San Francisco
* Province/State = CA
* Country/Primary Location Name = USA
* Copyright Notice =

Here you are webOS fans, your long fabled Roadrunner!! The filename is "185362_11_roadrunner_34_front_open_right_AZY_Wcmyk_R1_simp.jpg"

I guess Wiley Coyote finally won one and dropped the anvil on the its head.

how disappointing. we've waited how long for this?

I'm inclined to agree, I honestly expected more out of the successor to their flagship device. This is hardly what I expected out of a pre 2, more of a pre plus plus. They better get the marketing right this time around...

You're kinda my hero right now (i.e. my thoughts exactly)

If not, Enrique Iglesias is always a short phone call away. He always seems pretty eager to fill that role.

I can be your hero baby. I can kiss away your pain. I will stand by you forever. You can take my breath away.

Ooops, I actually meant this in response to the other person's post below....

Although, the Pre is not destined to remain the flagship device.

Disappointed????

So if this "Pre2 has the same processor chipset as the DROID X....what exactly are these people looking for in a "SUPER PHONE". (hate that moniker btw)

...And once more THE FIRST *THREE* IPHONES WERE "SPEC BUMPS" SO SERIOUSLY...lay off the damn meth!! O.o

The difference is that Apple didn't release a POS phone that falls apart every three weeks. There was real innovation each time a spec bump was released. Palm is about to release a phone with the same specs other phones have been carrying for months now. They're playing catch-up as opposed to doing something revolutionary which is what their loyal customers deserve. The Pre and its development has been lagging behind since its debut. How long have you been waiting for Flash? The unleashing of the GPU? Popular apps like Shazam?

Seriously? Apple makes one darn phone a year and they don't get half this flack. HTC has a new phone every 3.5 hours. Can't we fall a little bit in between? Can't we also be reasonable and understand that merging with HP had a greater impact on product plannign that we all realize?

I for one think this is great. I'd take one in a minute. If it is a better build quality that the current Pre, I'm all in. Because I LOVE, repeat: LOVE the size and form factor of my Pre. Maybe a hair bigger screen, but I don't want to carry a brick phone around like that darn iPhone / Epic / EVO set of phones...

But that is just me.

Seriously, though. Take it down a notch.

I want a new phone before Christmas!!! Love webOS!!!

I want a new phone before Christmas!!! Love webOS!!!

Fall in between? The Pre 2 follows 18+ months after the initial Pre release on Sprint. That's outside your 3.5 hour to one year range.

The impact of the merger? It took this long to approve a re-specd Pre? Please. And many claim that HP was taking time to get the next release right. Sure.

Yes, but in his defense "H"PALM has ~4 phones out within that 18 month time frame. But for this to be a new cohort of phones this looks like the Plus version for Europe.

pre - june 09
pixi - nov 09
pre plus - jan 10
pixi plus - jan 10
pre 2 - ??

First, no it isn't. In 18 months, we had the Pre, the PIxi, the Pre Plus, and the Pixi Plus.

Second, yes it ABSOLUTELY can have an effect on product roll-out plans. I say this from experience, having just gone through a BIG merger (different industry). But this kind of delay is COMPLETELY within the realm of possibility.

- Maybe Palm has to re-spec based on HP having a different manufacturing relationship. (plausible)
- Maybe Palm had to re-spec based on parts availability to that manufacturer. (if you understand anything about parts availability and parts exclusivity agreements and such, you'll agree this plausible as well)

All I am saying is: Given that in this particular case Palm is emulating the product version approach used by several other organizations, this is a good next step. Additionally, we know better phones are coming after this one, so this is a "throw them a bone" step. I'm on Sprint. I need a bone thrown to me. My wife is still using a Centro (and perfectly happy by the way), yet wants something like my pre but not so danged flimsy. In other words, this works great for me.

I agree. I think that HPalm is planning on more powerful devices next year. I think the Pre 2 is a device they already had in the pipe line before the merger, maybe with a few changes. I think they were possible dumping the Pre 2 to wait for new phones, but with all the current WebOS fans wanting something NOW and also to keep something in the market they had to release the Pre 2. As you said to throw us a bone.

I am a WebOS fan, I like just about everything about it. I also love the touchstone. But for the hell of it I recently tried the Epic to see if I was missing anything. Well I returned it and came back to my 1.5 year old Pre. I like using it much better. There were a few things I liked about the Epic (Android). I liked the autofocus camera, and the google voice to text. I kind of like the widgets (mostly as you need them to get to things easily). But using widgets drives the battery down fast. I also like having an docs to go, but we should have that soon. I found replacements on Android for all the apps I use on WebOS on a daily basis and found that most of them were designed better and more functional on WebOS, with a couple exceptions. So I plan on sticking it out with WebOS for a bit longer. WebOS 2.0 with more RAM and faster processor and more storage and I am happy. I would like to see an autofocus camera also. Think about it all the phones out pretty much have a 1 Ghz processor and 512 RAM, so its not all that bad. To me its more about added features to the OS and a few missing hardware features like the camera autofocus.

If they come out with a better device next year I will then give the Pre 2 to my wife and I will get the next one. Its all good.

pjjohn73 -- Couldn't agree more with your Android/Epic comments. I got an EVO 4G after having my Pre (Minus) drive me crazy with the TMC errors even after overclocking with the newest kernels (supposed to prevent TMC)... Long story short, after 1 week the EVO went back, kept my Pre (minus) and went and got another Pre Plus on Verizon for free w/2 yr. contract which I will cancel when I can upgrade my Sprint Pre here soon.
I'll pay the ETF on Verizon, keep the Pre Plus, use the memory from it and put it in my Pre (minus) and get the new webOS device on Sprint.

Okay, point being the Android experience was very mixed. Bottom line is that NOTHING, absolutely nothing multitasks or notifies like the Pre. webOS compared to Froyo is like going back to a really good version of Windows Mobile with really good apps.

These new phones, even this Pre 2, are just superior if for nothing else the OS. Add new and better hardware and it's a no brainer.

I completely agree with you. I'm loving the current Pre form factor and if this is better build quality (plus better specs), I'm all in. Don't need a brick in my pocket anymore...

You're kinda my hero right now (i.e. my thoughts exactly)

You're kind of a moron with this hero crap.

I agree with you but I hope you've got a screen protector with a moniker like that!

+1

+2

the flack apple gets it's 100 fold more then Palm which nobody outside of Palm central even pays attention too as evidenced by it's 0% mindshare. Apple get's flack for antenna, screen that trump what it gets on a little website.

but apple gets tolerated cause in the end it has massive customer satisfaction, where as Palm does not.

Really? Have you tried the iPhone 4? Its heavenly, repeat: heavenly. Its super responsive and does not fall apart at the seams like the Palm preice of shit. (See what I did there?) I would rather be carrying that phone around then running to Sprint's repair center on a bi-weekly basis with my Pre. I had to switch to the god-awful Samsung Moment because I was not going to accept a 10th Pre refurb. Now Palm wants me to buy a Pre 2 cause they wrapped it in rubber? Go &%@! yourself Palm.

Seriously.

So, basically I can now buy my phone as it currently is, but with the addition of a flatter screen, for another contract and a couple more hundred dollars.

Wow, HPalm. Really knocking this out of the park there, aren't you?

Uberkernel = no more of that message.

Not on my phone.

Couple hundred? Is that what it's going to cost? Where did you get your information, do you have any more?

@deafinoneear

Uh, not really you don't. OC performance does NOT equal native performance...

http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=...

Nice try tho.

/facepalm

what a goddamn disappointment...

Clock speed is one of the most irrelevant factors in comparing processors. It should be at the bottom of the list of "specs" for how little it truly matters but it isn't. It isn't because it is easier to market that 1000 is 'better' than 500 than to say, "well one has a lower average IPC but handles 16b adds faster and even though the mults take 17 cycles they can be issued two at a time because of the structure of the ALUs and"... well, hopefully you get the point.

I haven't looked at the spec sheet for either of these particular processors but my guess is they are far, FAR different in order to achieve twice the energy efficiency.

Also, just as a quick hardware lesson:
-Processors have what is called cache, which is like RAM but is much, much, much faster. Your cache is where your program is run from, not your RAM. Data is moved from your internal storage (8GB, 16GB, whatever), to your RAM (512MB), to your cache (probably ~1KB), then run
-All RAM is not created equal. Some RAM will give you your data in 100ns, some takes 500ns. The amount of RAM is irrelevant until you have enough apps running that one app needs to kick another apps data back onto your internal storage (which is much much slower than RAM). Until someone leaks the particular RAM chip, or any other particular internals, you wont know if the new 512MB is better than the old 512MB

I'm sorry if this did not include enough details about the particular device, I'm at work so I need to at least pretend I'm doing a moderate amount of work. If I get bored later (or my girlfriend bugs me) I'll look it up and post more on this somewhere.

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OMAP):
"The OMAP36x is a 45nm version of the 65nm OMAP34x with higher clock speed."

While the Pre2 doesn't not for-sure use the 3640, that's the hot bet right now. And if that's the case, it's the exact same chip just smaller and therefore more battery friendly.

that does look like the case - it also looks like you can expect better wifi/bluetooth perfomance (shared wifi/bluetooth antenna)

actually, cache is to pre-fetch and/or temporarily hold instructions and/or data.

the OS and Programs run in RAM, not cache.

can't imagine where you found info to the contrary.

RAM is working memory, cache is temporary holding, and storage is non-volital to hold programs or data when powered off or otherwise not in use.

Sure technically, a program does 'run' from RAM. But it isn't 'executing'. And to most people, a process that isn't doing something is doing nothing.

Of course, its entirely possible I don't know what I'm talking about either. Do these processors have no form of I-cache?

edit: The layout of comments is a bit hard to follow...and if there is indeed a version with a better display (if not this one) I would consider switching from my trusty BB. I do like the form factor of the pre it fits both pocket and palm well

Hahaha....hp/Palm is a joke...lol.

I am a little disappointed the screen isn't any bigger. And why would I pay a couple hundred dollars more to get a phone with spec's I already have? Assuming webOS 2.0 is going to be able to run on my Sprint Pre, will someone please tell me the benefits of upgrading to this?

If you are only talking about the processor, this 1 GHz processor will be a lot better then your overclocked to 1 GHz processor. I still don't understand how people don't quite get that? First and foremost it will use less power at 1 GHz then your current processor at 500 MHz.

And you will probably have more RAM, a better display, no oreo twisty thing, more storage space...

I'll buy it.

@Brett Igbinoba

Uh, not really you don't. OC performance does NOT equal native performance...

http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=...

Nice try tho.

/facepalm

It's weird how much carp Palm is getting for Pre -> Pre2 when Droid -> Droid2 and IPhone3G -> IPhone3GS were essentially close to being similar transitions...

+1,000

Time between iPhone 3G and 3Gs: 1 year
Between Droid and Droid2: 9 months
Between Pre and Pre2: 16+ months

That's why people are disappointed. If we had this available (not just leaked or announced) 4 months ago, it'd sit better with people.

Time between Pre and Pre Plus - 1 year
Time between Pre Plus and Pre 2 - ~1 year.

Why does everyone skip a generation? (upgraded storage and memory plus some subtle design changes, a la iPhone 3 vs. 3GS).

The changes between a Pre and a Pre Plus were swapping a couple chips (RAM and storage) to use higher capacity ones.

3G -> 3GS
Faster processor, higher-res camera, upgraded radio, and added a compass.

I think it's ok for people to skip the Plus as a generation. Unless, of course, you also want to call the 3G 8GB and 3G 16GB phones separate generations too.

you're comparing the pre (1st gen) and pre+ (2nd gen) to a 3g (2nd gen) and 3gs (3rd gen). u fail.

how about u compare the 3g with the pre+ and the 3gs to the roadrunner, once it officially comes out, or at least an official statement is released.

I would expect more talapia

Troll...

The order in which devices are rolled out is irrelevant. You should NOT compare the Pre2 with a 3GS or a 3G. It did not launch in 2008 or 2009. It's launching now so we have to compare it with what is available. It's in a crowed with the iPhone4, the Droid Whatever (can't remember the latest device, don't care), WP7 models, ect.... Compairing this leap by Palm with something Apple or Verizon did last year, two years ago is irrelevant.

@jhoove09 You are completely right. More-so than anyone on this thread. We ARE comparing THIS leap by Palm with something Apple and Google did as far as two years ago... Isn't that sad? How can all you fanboys/girls still defend Palm? Are those people in Sunnyvale that incompetent that we are barely being introduced to a 1 GHZ Pre? BTW, the Pre to Pre+ jump absolutely does not count because they were on two different carriers. If I wanted to enjoy a Pre+ I would have had to break my contract to do so. Not the case with the iPhone and Droid phones. Don't purposely put on blinders cause the Treo was an awesome phone back in the day. Palm has been sucking the big one for quite some time now and we all know it.

If I ever see Palm in an a secluded alley, I'm going to *#!& him up!

Thankyou, people seem to forget that PRE -> PRE + was a memory AND storage update along with improvements to keyboard and build.

PRE Plus-> PRE 2 seems to be about the same as droid to Droid 2 and nobody is giving motorola grief about that.

I for one am happy for this. I would like other form factors but I think this is not a bad form factor and if the device is snappy and more responsive than the original PRE HPALM will have a winner on its hands. With all the improvements to original webOS and added new features webOS 2.0 will be the best mobile OS out there.

It's likely because Pre users are looking to be rescued due to the general unhappiness with the current phone vs Droid users who don't quite fit that category. Droid users also didn't have to wait that long and had plenty of other choices with the same OS. Not the same boat as webOS users (especially Sprint webOS users).

I think the plan is fairly obvious:

- get a new phone out in time for the holiday season
- take advantage of work already done by Palm pre-acquisition
- better build quality to improve build quality perceptions out there

Then announce new superphone next Jan at CES for delivery early Q2 next year, building on buzz from WebOS 2.0 and Pre2.

+1 People whining it's not their desired slate will get that soon enough.

Agreed. Exactly what Ive been saying. Its simple business.

I actually hope you're wrong, because I think that would lead to quite a bit of enthusiast backlash.

Look at how upset people were when Sprint did not get the Pre Plus -- which was just a spec bump, as pointed out elsewhere in the thread -- and how they commented here about feeling 'betrayed' that Sprint didn't get the upgrade, that the Palm-loyal early adopters were, in effect, being left out in the cold when it came to the shinier new device.

Imagine now if this Pre 2 comes out for the holidays on Sprint, and various Palm-loyal folks shell out for it in November. Now imagine that in January, HP/Palm unveils a Shiny New Superphone as you theorize. Wouldn't the folks who bought the Pre 2 feel betrayed at now having burned their upgrade credits or bought into a contract on a lower-end device?

This has happened before, after all. Look at the people who jumped on the original Droid -- The first Android 2 phone! So shiny! The new flagship! -- in November of 2009. Two months later, in January, Google and HTC unveiled the Nexus One, the new 'superphone' that had Android 2./1/, even higher than that crummy old no-longer-shiny Droid! Yaaay... except all the people who bought the Droid and were locked into a two year contract were kinda pissed off.

Android, folks sort of expect it from at this point. Buy a Droid Whozit, and five weeks later, they'll come out with the Droid Spectacular HD with three times the specs and a coffeemaker. In contrast, Apple people feel comfortable upgrading their iPhone when one comes out because they have a fairly good idea that the next iPhone will be out precisely a year later, the next summer. It won't be rendered outdated by some iPhone Extreme model six weeks after they've signed the contract.

I would normally agree with you, but there's one big difference. The Droid and iPhone 3G were both hugely successful. It makes sense that their next generation phones would be similar in style with upgraded specs. However the Pre was not a runaway hit, so I'm not sure it makes sense to release a very similar Pre 2.

Personally I think they should come out with a few hardware choices, one of which would be a vertical slider; however a bit larger than the current form factor.

People are mostly disappointed because they didn't address the 2 biggest gripes from the community: The screen, and the build quality.

The jury is still out on the 2nd one, but people want a bigger and better screen. If it turns out to be bigger, or if the release an additional model, then people will ease up.

Based on build quality, no one knows yet, but given that it's the same general form, our Oreo effect doesn't seem like it's gone just yet.

"but people want a bigger and better screen"

Beep!

I understand that *you* want a bigger screen. I'm sure many others agree with you.
I'm also sure that many people *do* *not* want a much bigger phone than the Pre.

What neither of us really knows is the relative demand for either.
People whining here on the forums about screen size do not tell us anything of statistical relevance. People who are roughly happy about the current size will tend to post less.

Palm OTOH probably does have some info (market research, feedback from carriers) about demand for big screen vs compact phone.

That's because those other phones were decent, and not as in desperate need of new hardware as is the Pre.

that is because it only took apple 7 months for a spec bump. and they annually brought out new devices. Palm should get a lot of crap if after 18months they come out with a spec bump. I really want to see a new form factor.

THANK YOU!

Oh hell no.

What is with a lot of you guys and your twisted logic. How can you type and believe these words.

Pre already used the refresh card with the Pre Plus.

The reason people didn't complain with Droid->Droid 2 is (1)there are plenty of Droid options and (2)The Droid 1 is already pretty current with it's larger screen and capabilities.

The Pre was unveiled two years ago. It's still holding onto the same screen size which was small then - it's inexcusable now.

You're forgetting as well that the Droid and iPhone are huge successes. People don't want a complete change. The Pre was a flop. It can't afford to get a spec bump A SECOND TIME.

-2,000,000

The difference is millions of people loved the Droid and iPhone and didn't want radical changes. Plus, they were current with their large screens and specs.

The Pre is a flop and needs an overhaul, not a second spec bump.

Agreed.

Following successful phones with spec bumps makes sense. Following an unsuccessful phone with not one but a SECOND spec bump, doesn't make sense in my opinion, especially given that WP7 phones are coming with specs more akin to Android specs and the smallest WP7 screen is 3.8". Those who don't want a larger screen and like the same form factor, will like the Pre 2. Those like me who expected more, will of course be disappointed. My Pre Plus GSM was a free phone upgrade on AT&T. Since I already have it OC'd to 800Mhz and have a 2600 MAh extended battery, I'm not going to spend money on a same form factor phone with a slight spec bump. The battery life can't possibly approach what I'm getting with a higher spec'd battery. I'm sure new phones with higher specs and different form factors will indeed come sometime next year, hopefully. Meanwhile, all I want to know is that they will release WebOS 2.0 for the Pre Plus and I'll live with that until my next upgrade, which for certain is not going to be a spec bumped, Pre 2.

HP has already said new devices will be coming out early 2011. The only disppointment you should have is for all of the blind speculation flying around here the past week.

I just wonder how long it will take for us old Pre users to get our 2.0 update. Being that I am stuck with my original Sprint Pre until the iPhone comes to Verizon and I can jump the Sprint ship. Although I will say that I have not written Palm off because I love webOS. I am just taking a hiatus until HPalm gets their ducks in a row and are ready to fire real bullets at this smart phone market. Unfortunately I see this Palm Pre 2 as shooting blanks.

said I was going to wait for the superphone, but if I get one more two many cards error I may not be able to resist!

You are still getting TMC messages?

Then I assume you didn't install the UeberKernel?

I haven't seen a TMC since installing the UK with a fix for TMC.

I see them from time to time, if I open a 3d game without closing the browser, but I rarely have to restart, just close the browser and try again. also running Uberkernel 1000/500 screenstate...

I think this is a great step forward, especially towards getting everyone on the performance bandwagon that we need. I'll eat my hat if this is the only phone announced. I'm sure that we'll see another two announced at CES.

Perfect for me. I want a Portraid Slider like the Pre with better Hardware. I dont care for the Mansion but can see that it is needed.

The current Pre Plus can already be easily clocked to 1GHz, so the difference is....stock 1GHz with better battery life due to the CPU being a bit more advanced.

That doesn't strike me as a great option for those who have a plus version of the Pre, but for those on Sprint, due to the 512MB RAM, it may be worth looking at. This does NOT strike me as the true Pre 2 that many have been waiting on with larger screen and such.

If you overclock your Pre to 1GHz, you are overstressing the CPU (see Rod Whidby's comments on this in the forums) and you void your warranty. If you have a 1GHz Pre 2, you have the speed and no warranty issues, and should have no life issues for your CPU.

The difference is reliability, and the warranty that comes with it. HPalm will expect it to last the warranty period or longer at 1GHz.

I have clocked at 1 GHZ for sometime now and have had no major issues. However I do have insurance on my Pre, so let that mutha **** burn!

Did they at least give a little more room for the top row?

I thought that was already fixed in the Pre Plus.

It looks the same except a flatter screen... I could not really see any on Verizon grabbing this if it gets there... being GSM and all...

...because its impossible for Palm to swap out a GSM radio for a CDMA one... and because we have seen only the GSM version of the Pre 2 there is NO WAY in hell that a CDMA version exists. If I cant see it, it doesnt exist. Nice methodology.

Get this on Sprint now, please.

Can I get an "Amen"?

My contract is up on Sprint and that's the only way I would buy it; I can wait until Sprint carries it since I don't want to switch carriers.

I'm eligible for my upgrade starting this month. Don't want the EVO because of its age and I'm reluctant to part with webOS, but if Palm isn't releasing anything crazy I might have to!

I said I wouldn't get a Pre refresh, but if this were to launch on Sprint next month for a good price (hoping us original Pre owners would get some kind of discount) then I might actually just get it.

This is good news, I've always loved the Pre size and form factor. It just needed better internals and better build quality.

+1

I agree, completely. Build quality and 3d acceleration are my only real gripes with the Pre+. Well...and my hobbled GPS, but that one isn't Palm's fault.

I'll wait to see if Verizon hobbles the next palm device so I can switch to Sprint before locking myself in.

It looks (based on a VERY zoomed-in version of the picture) as if they removed the charger door and made the port be accessible without opening a port (i.e. pushed further towards the case edge).

Look for yourself.

i see it!

care about the battery capacity...

probably the same. they are betting on the more efficient processor and battery-saving magic of webos 2.0 to squeeze more out of the current battery.

it is the same, they are using the same battery

which hopefully for heavy users will get them through the later part of the evening without recharging! yay!!

Keys look great... But I still think for this 1.5 Gen Hardware, they should've shoehorned in a 3.5" screen... It's doable IMO....

Overall though.. Looks good...
(Lets not forget the iPhone has essentiallly looked the same for Years...)

Let's also not forget that Palm was on the verge of bankruptcy before being purchased by HP. What has worked for years doesn't work anymore and they have to design hardware that is going to appeal to the masses if they want success. I love WebOS and I really want it to be successful. IMO it is by far the most intuitive OS on any phone. However, with the speed that companies like HTC and Samsung release new and improved phone hardware, Palm has to do better than the Pre 2 to compete...or else license WebOS.

A small bump in the physical size would have been nice to accommodate a larger screen. I may have to pass, considering the WP7 units coming out. For business use, the Office and SharePoint integration are key for me.

Quick Office should be aboard what do you need for sharepoint?

I hope to god you never have to multitask or copy and paste at your business.

That's my only real gripe with the Pre Plus. No Outlook Synch from jump. That was my biggest love for the Centro and all others before it. And at my job, Outlook integration, calendar sharing, and share point are coming down the pike, so my next phone upgrade will need Outlook integration without me having to spend extra money for software to make that work. This is something that should be included out of the box,in my opinion and it will be a strength of WP7.

Faster = Yes
Better Screen = Yes
Same great Pre+ form factor = Yes, Yes

I want one.

ps: I wonder how high we can overclock this.

One hundred billion gigahertz.

Dang...I bet that will kill the battery life...

things we dont know that it still might have:

-Better build quality
-Better camera resolution

One point twenty-one gigahertz!!!

well played, Marty.

I never understood why they got rid of the orange key and the orange letter... it made the keyboard look much better and was easier to see the numbers.

If the Pre didn't sell like they (Palm) hoped, then what on earth makes them (Palm) think the Pre 2 is going to sell any better? Let's hope the rest of the specs for the phone wow us because if 1GHz and 512 MB RAM is it I will not spend money to purchase this phone...I'll wait out the rest of my 2 year contract and see what is available then. Not to mention the fact that I'd be pissed if I bought it and they release a real phone next year.

The Pre 2 (and Pixi 2) is probably the last phone on Palm's pre-HP product roadmap that will be released. Considering product development time, the future CES products will be born from the HPalm unit and be much more ambitious.

I plan to get a Pre 2 on Sprint if they get it.

the Pre didnt sell because of failed marketing. It had very little to do with the Pre itself. I think with good marketing this could sell.

says you. i say the product wasn't good enough. i settle. I wasn't what i wanted. I surely didn't want a vertical slider. it's advertising was bad but it's far from the only problem. to chock it all up to marketing is overly simplistic but i'm sure it will ease the troubled hearts of those that so want the smartphone market to be dominated by palm again.

+1000

It boggles my mind how many people don't seem to get the importance of marketing. We're a consumer culture fed on 30 second sound bites... Marketing. Is. King.
Palm's marketing campaign for the Pre was about as inept as any campaign I can think of and was way too low profile.

I completely agree. Palm really screwed themselves with the marketing of the Pre. They made a decent phone but unfortunately nobody new about it.

I for one love the design and size of the Pre and am glad they've kept it the same size. I like being able to carry it in my pocket and forget it is there. I think there is probably a large market for a smart phone that isn't the size of a brick.

My biggest complaint about the Pre is the build quality. I will not buy the Pre 2 unless it gets a passing grade on quality and sturdiness. I would rather get a phone that doesn't do as much but is built to last.

So IMHO I think HPalm can be very successful with the new Pre if they have a great marketing campaign and build a sturdy, quality phone.