Should HP make a "Nexus" hero device for Open webOS? | webOS Nation
 
 

Should HP make a "Nexus" hero device for Open webOS? 108

by Derek Kessler Thu, 08 Mar 2012 6:05 pm EST

Should HP make a An interesting question was posed this morning in our forums by aia832003: should HP make a "Nexus" device? For those not familiar, Google has over the past few years commissioned a series of "Nexus" phones for Android, phones that are the launch device for a new version of Android and run "pure" Android, [mostly] free of carrier and manufacturer interference. They're also typically the state-of-the-art as far as smartphones of the moment are concerned. For example, the current Nexus device is the Samsung Galaxy Nexus, a powerhouse of a smartphone no matter which way you cut it.

With webOS going open source, HP's going to face two problems going forward. The first, and largest problem, is convincing another manufacturer to take a chance on webOS. The second will be controlling webOS - while you technically can't control an open source project, especially with HP's plan to go with Apache licensing, setting the example can go a long way towards setting consumer expectations. With Android, consumers have come to expect and differentiate between the experience offered by the skins of HTC, Samsung, and Motorola. Obviously HP will want to avoid that kind of fragmentation, and setting the example with a "hero" type device might do that trick.

That said, there are some potential problems with the Nexus-approach for HP. The first being smartphones - it'll be hard enough to convince any manufacturer to pick up webOS, it'll be even harder to convince the carriers to give webOS yet another chance after years of disappointment at the register. There is of course the tablet market, in which HP could easily do the Nexus thing. They're planning on making ARM-powered Windows 8 tablets, and that hardware engineering wouldn't be that far off from what an open source Open webOS kernel could support. Heck, HP CEO Meg Whitman even said she'd like for HP to get back into the webOS tablet game.

So what do you say, oh webOS Nation? Should HP take the lead and set the example with webOS hardware, or should they leave it to the professionals?

Category:

108 Comments

I think they will need to have some device that openWebOS will run on otherwise what are they optimizing it for? In my opinion without optimization we will be back to square one. There has to be a target for optimization.

I still do not understand their decision to completely kill the phone division. That said, they still have Pre 3 which is pretty reasonable spec wise (still better than most Windows Phone 7 devices) I would love it if my Pre 3 gets some love.

If not I would like to see EVO3D or some other phone get openWebOS ported to it.

I'd like to see Open webOS able to utilize the iProducts. There are tons (used) of them out there, and they ought to perform well. Likewise the Galaxy Tab's should be a coherent line of products to target.

OMG, WebOS is open because HP wanted out! They made brutal hardware when they were in, and now someone would pay them for hardware when they don't care? I'm gonna puke.

I wouldn't say they made brutal hardware. I would argue the only true HP webOS product was the TouchPad and while it's not setting any trends, it was a decent piece of hardware that was priced to high.

BRUTAL HARDWARE!!!!

In general, no expandable memory, way too much cheap plastic,. materials that cracked, scratched, or broke in general. Most devices had too little RAM, too little flash memory, slow booting, humdrum CPU's, GPUs that were difficult or impossible to utilize, small touch-screens with poor accuracy, tablets without gesture areas or decent cameras. Basically no high-tech look or feel, no use of quality-reserved material and often grabbed hold of Apple's greatest weaknesses and ran with it. BRUTAL.

Here is a phrase you never heard: "Great hardware, too bad the o/s is holding back this break out device."

But the opposite was found far too often.

I am the proud owner of four HP Pre 3 mobile phones... for a reason...they were better to use than any Android phone that I tried eg Motorola Dext and HTC Desire.

I think the main problem was that the Palm Pre alienated the phone companies by the infernal locking in of the Pre to the pre website at the same time as having all the phones locked to a carrier. If there was a WebOS phone which was UNLOCKED and with logging onto the HP Pre website as optional then we might get lift off for a WebOS phone.

The phone service companies might then just go along with WebOS once they see it is viable especially if WebOS has the option of all the Android software.

Why not they have to do something to help get things going. Manufacturers and carriers are going to be weary about webOS so this may help to show it can be a viable and successful operating system. But without a great phone to show it off it will fail. I love my pre 3 and it runs pretty smooth on that hardware how much better on a nice dual or quad core phone with a good camera and all the other stuff people look for.

In the immediate future the market for webOS devices is going to be so miniscule that if HP made a device (tablet or phone), that would scare off any other potential OEM. So HP making one makes no sense since they couldn't do even when they owned the OS lock, stock and barrel.

The only way an OEM would agree would be for HP to HEAVILY finance the device, and what would stockholders say to HP paying some other company to manufacture a device? Google paid lots of money for the first nexus device, it wasn't done for them for free.

Either way HP loses in this game, so I say "no" to a Nexus device. Either an OEM decides to make a device or webOS is doomed to hobbyist land.

OF COURSE!!!

i've been sending email to Meg withman asking for that!...

a flag device, spec awasome and good looking, like the pre3... this device will be made to show the real capabilities of webOS...

this are the kind of devices the developer love, desire and dream about, and eventually they buy... as my way of thinking... the strategy of releasing the HP Veer before the HP Pre3 was not good, because developers, lovers of great gadgets and people with money where waiting for the HP Pre3 because of its specs... so when they released the HP Veer MANY people decided to wait for the Pre3 instead of making contracts with the carriers or spending money they could use for the pre3...

is just like happened with the iPhone... first people who like "revolutionary" devices, and people with money bought it.... and then all the other people saw them and they also wanted it... this is how HP should have released the phone... first the Pre3 and then when people saw its AWESOMENESS, they have two options... buy an HP Pre3 or if they can't afford it, or wanted something smaller, they have the HP Veer to get an very good phone, the MAGNIFICENT webOS, and a smaller one... and still saving some money...

don't you guys think that?

i'm preatty sure that many of you guys were waiting for the HP Pre3, and decided to wait and not buy the HP Veer, like me... not because the veer wasn't good, but because the pre3 is much better... now i own one, but i had to wait for it to get to eBay...

RQ

I was waiting for the Pre3. I was super p1ssed off that it didn't materialize here in Canada. Like furious. I ended up waiting all that time to get kicked in the balls and end up with nothing. My TouchPad wanted a playmate so badly. Now it has a Blackberry Torch 9810 as a sister. I liked the portrait slide out form factor like the Pre...not nearly as intuitive as a webOS based phone though. It's not bad either, but it's just totally different user experience.

I was also really surprised and disappointed that HP released the Veer before the Pre3. They veered off course obviously (badda boom!) Such a grand disappointment for HP to bail out like they did. I am glad they're open sourcing this OS. Free its greatness from their inept hands. I will never buy another HP product again if I can help it unless they release a Nexus like phone. I've been burned twice by HP now, once with an orphaned desktop computer that was promised drivers for Windows 7 which never happened (got rescued by the hacker community though) and then with this webOS business. So we're back to the "hackers and part-timers" to save open webOS once more. Thank goodness for them! I hope you die a painful death HP...

Yes, HP should definitely make a "Nexus" device - just as long as I don't have to buy it if I don't like it and as long as they charge a competitive price no matter how much it costs them to develop and make it. They also should sell these devices to developers at an even lower price. Then, they should promise to stop making the device whenever some other company agrees to make it so that there won't be some unfair inside competition. Who says there isn't room at HP for profitless revenue? After all, the money isn't going to burn itself.

It's not going to happen, but it would be my next phone. Still rocking Pre-, due to Sprint not carrying anything I like. I've been fighting the 4.x screen size, but i'm running out of options. So now I'm ready for a Galaxy Nexus, but now i'm considering HTC One X or S. I would love to see webOS on any of the 3.

Thanks for featuring my post Derek! Our conversation via Twitter the other night on whether HP could really pull off the open source model got me thinking.

"phones that are the launch device for a new version of Android and run "pure" Android, [mostly] free of carrier and manufacturer interference"

Glad you said "mostly"...though anyone who owns a Galaxy Nexus through Verizon or a Nexus S/S4G would likely laugh him or herself silly at the thought of their device being free of carrier interference.

Still waiting for my Nexus S 4G to get ICS...how many months since it was introduced again? Four? Five?

I was pondering this not too long ago.

I think that they should have a flagship device, for others to try and best, where it may get an update every or every other year to make it better than everything else, but not have 500 versions where quality is severely overlooked in order to make every niche device possible... Other manufacturers should stick to a similar style of producing devices as well. The less crappy clutter, the better image open webOS will have.

And, they have to actually market it. They have to have MEMORABLE marketing for it, I mean. It has to be a desireable device to people and the OS to other manufacturers.

I have one suggestion though, no matter what happens, use the same feeling keyboard from the Veer/Pre 3. BEST keyboard on a phone that I have ever used.

I actually had a few ideas for a completely unique device, but I have yet to render it out. May start on that soon. (Who knows, HP wants to see logos imagined from the community for an open webOS, they may want suggestions if it ever comes to a flagship device to make.)

Heck, they could probably just release the Pre 3, (with a better camera[s], as it's the one true pitiful thing on it,) with a possibly better processor to be up with the times.

They should pay Samsung (for example maybe even ZTE) big money to make a device if they want open WebOS to happen outside fan-based work.

Yes PLEASE-PLEASE! Something. Anything. Not only would it be an amazing specimen (or example), but also an outstanding gesture on HP's part to the webOS community and the mobile world. Make it so! Sure, they're prolly betting heavy on Win8. But given their state of affairs and roadmap ('to do it right and in a big way'), there's no reason they can't spare more than just a little lovin' to webOS in every way possible within reason. Right?

If not, then give Rod W and the WebOSInternals folks the nece$$ary a$$ets to do it up real good-like.

That is all.

Hp should make a "Nexus" device Something Like webOS Diamond that set the standard higher than apple and higher than any manufacture!! Something with 2,720*2168 (297ppi) with a super Amoled screen form Samsung! with A quad core processor that has 2 extra smaller cores for keeping webOS from boggin/slowing down, and !!SIX CORE GRAPHICS!! that will blow everything out of the water, and the processor should be designed BY HP!!! :D

This would be a great project for the crack corps of webOS engineers....oh wait.

THEY FIRED ALL OF THE HARDWARE PEOPLE.

Maybe they can start up again, then stop again, then.....are you lot having a laugh about this?

This ridiculous question is predicated on the notion that HP WANTS to be in the smartphone game, which Meg Whitman has said they do not.

As for tablets...a "Nexus"-style webOS tablet is pointless. The Nexus devices have top-end specs and the top-end prices to act as flagship guidance for a specific version of Android that is brand new. They serve no real purpose to Google except to provide a pure Android experience as an alternative to legion of skinned devices from their army of manufacturers.

So you kind of need an army of manufacturers making skinned versions of webOS tablets to have this make sense. Won't happen. They're having a hard enough time with Honeycomb tablets. Their hardware plans for the next 12 months are all either ICS and/or Windows 8. Nobody is "waiting" on some niche OS. They need full ecosystems to have even a chance at making any money against the iPad, especially now that you can get a current one for $400 ($350 refurbished).

The Touchpad WAS the "Nexus" device.

Absolutely. Bringing back the Pre3 (or giving it a couple of spec bumps and calling it a Pre4) is a must. That could easily be the Nexus device. It is a great phone, and the phone that should have been released instead of that silly Veer. (The Veer is fine, and has its place, but shouldn't have been the leadoff hitter for a new string of devices.)

HP needs to do this if they even want to think about relasing another webOS tablet. How many iPhone users do you see carrying around an Android tablet? or Android users carrying around an iPad? People like to standardize on one platform, so it is important that there is another webOS phone, and an undefiled "Nexus" phone would be extremely desirable.

Brilliant idea. But before that, porting it on the existing Nexus makes sense.

I would buy one , here is my $ 500.00

No. HP clearly lacks the passion and manpower to do a hero phone right. If anything I suggest that HP work closely with an old Japanese electronics giant that is hungry to improve its smartphone offerings. I suggest that Sony or Fujitsu develop the open webOS signature device (phone first, then tablet).

unlikely to happen, but sony
would be wonderful. And they
have always had an eye for
clean design (still hanging on
to my vaio 505tx)

Let me preface this post by stating the following: I am an AVID webOS fan, follower, and most importantly (imo), developer.
In order for webOS to succeed in any manner, it needs an ecosystem. Unfortunately, being able to browse the internet, check your email, make phone calls, and have a few social media apps on your phone will simply not cut it, let alone compete with iOS or Android.
webOS will not get an ecosystem with the limited APIs that it (still) has. We need all of the APIs that developers have come to expect out of other SDKs. 
I'm hoping with open-sourcing webOS, that a team of developers more intelligent than me can make this happen so that I can put my ideas to work... 

This needs to be repeated over and over and over. People here don't understand that when Apple does a 90-minute presentation on a new iPhone or iPad, they spend maybe a third of it on how fancy the new hardware is and then....THEY SHOW AMAZING NEW APPS, CONTENT, AND GAMES TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT.

You can do four finger pinches and other advanced gestures in iOS, but people don't buy those devices for UI fanciness. They want to do stuff with it.

For all of them emphasis on swiping and UI and DE-emphasis on apps that people place around here, you'd think that when webOS fans buy a PC, they never install an additional program and spend all of their time alt-Tabbing between Internet Explorer and Outlook Express.

I agree, but it's a vicious cycle. You can't have apps without hardware that people are excited about enough to develop for it. Good hardware brings good developers, and their apps, which in turn leads to future hardware and form factors.

I disagree. Open up the APIs and developers will start using them. The developer base is large enough and hungry enough to develop (still) for webOS. Myself included.

In around about way, they did build a "nexus" phone. It is called the pre3, which I'm typing on. I'm just an enthusiast and the pre3 will be my phone until it craps out. Then I would go back to my pre2 to Verizon's chagrin. The first keyboard/slab update will be mine.....even if I have to buy it on ebay. Does anybody have # of webOS smartphone units out there still activated from pre-,+,2,veer,3.....especially the pre3?

I think this scenario is a little "cart before the horse" type of situation. Have we all forgotten that there's been no mention that Open webOS is even going to be designed so that it can function on smartphones, just as WebOS 3.xx was unable to do so?

Listen, I want Open webOS on my phone just as much as the rest of you, don't get me wrong. But all signs from HP seem to point in the tablet direction for this operating system.

I am really liking my new Pre 3. I think HP needs to outsource the hardware and focus on the software. But I agree, at some point HP should do a Nexus phone. I'll buy one.

It's highly unrealistic that HP would develop a new phone in the short term, given HPs current and past skittishness about the smart phone market.

The best hopes for WebOS at this point are:
1. HP comes out with a dual boot tablet and WebOS runs better on that tablet than Windows AND/OR

2. There is a high quality port of WebOS to an Android phone and people like it so much that HP sees the benefit with diving back into the market. AND/OR

3. The licensing/IP issues for Android become so burdensome that hardware vendors start looking for an alternative. AND/OR

4. Enyo takes off and creates a demand for native WebOS devices.

I’m sure HP has considered all these scenarios and they open sourced WebOS so that they could leave these possibilities open for the future.

No. Because it won't make a profit.

This doesn't seem any different the what HP already did. It's HP making a phone or tablet with whatever specs it wants. That's exactly what they already did. The only people that made a webos phone was HP and Palm. They didn't need to make a nexus phone to show off what it could do. The Pre, Pre 2, Pre 3 where it's phone to show off what it could do. Calling it a "nexus" doesn't change that they've already done that and it didn't work.

Also remember that HP considered the Pre 3 to be a "powerhouse" or top-end device when they announced it.

A physical-keyboard slider. 3.6-inch screen. Single core processor.

Their idea of top-shelf doesn't exactly jibe with what others consider top-shelf. For Pete's sake, they're trying to explain away the terrible color reproduction of the new Envy 15's "Radiance" display by saying that they are working as intended, but just "different" than other displays.

So dreams of a quad-core Exynos, 4.6-inch Super AMOLED 3+ buttonless carbon-fiber and steel-type "super device" are just that.

The Pre3 was pretty powerful and competitive when it was announced. Unfortunately, it was released (for a day) 6 months later. In today's phone market, 6 months is a lifetime.

Powerful, maybe. Competitive....not really. Sub-4-inch screen size. Single core processor (tho, an admittedly powerful one). Slider form factor that few wanted. No LTE connectivity.

Keep in mind at CES 2011 a month before the Feb. 9 announcement, it was the dawn of the dual core big screen Android age. That's what the market wanted. There hasn't been a blockbuster slider - horizontal or vertical - smartphone in eons. Even the Droid brand has been hijacked by slabs, and the Droid 4 is the redheaded stepchild.

Last thing you want to do with a niche OS is limit it to a niche form factor, but that's just what HP and Palm did.

should.. but won't.

"setting the example can go a long way towards setting consumer expectations"
Yes. It's called 'agenda-setting' and any behavioral scientist or marketing specialist will tell you that it works.

Absolutely HP should get back in the game with 'nexus' devices! There has to be a reason to keep webOS alive. Just updating the software on our phones and tablets as they age and obsolesce wont cut it.

We already have a 'nexus' phone... the Pre series. If they can pull off the logistics, HP should create a Pre 4 to go with openwebOS (webOS 4?). Granted carriers wont touch the idea right now, but WE know what people think about the Pre 3 when they actually get hold of one, right? If HP can get the marketing right (Derek gave us some fantastic pointers on this back in January: http://www.webosnation.com/webos-deeply-flawed-point-fingers-plan-not-code), the Pre 4 will sell.

HP can create an unlocked GSM version (like the UK Pre 3) to release WITHOUT a carrier. It'll be expensive (what unlocked phone isn't?), but WE'll sustain it for at least a while (Who else here who bought a Pre 3 on eBay or elsewhere would buy a Pre 4 as your next phone? Huh? I will!). Can you do a carrier-less CDMA phone? If so, HP SHOULD.

As for tablets, again we have the 'nexus' in the TouchPad. However, whereas the Pre 3 might only need some updating (8mp, 1080p camera with zoom anyone?), the TouchPad needs an overhaul. HP needs to get the TouchPad 2 in line with the new iPad right away. In fact they should take an old page from Microsoft Word and just skip "2" and "3" and go straight to "4" to keep the name in line with the Pre. I would not be opposed to a completely new name.

Bottom line: I think HP has one more chance. They should take it.

they tried to set the example. The Pre, Pre 2, Pre3 was them setting the example. It's not like someone else made those phones inadequately. and its more then spec that will sellphones.

I agree that the Pre and Pre 2 were inadequate, but they were Palm. They were what HP inherited. The Pre 3 is the only one that HP had any input into (and even that was on the drawing board at Palm), and it has garnered the most praise by far.

I also agree that more than specs are needed to sell the phones. See the link to Derek's January article that I posted. He addresses that.

Wow, these comments are like a synopsis of PreCentral comments top 10 rehashed ideas:

Dual boot
Joint venture
Developer phone
Better marketing
Launch the Pre 3
Flagship device
Unlocked phone
Let webOSinternals do it
Outsource the hardware
Let consumers fall in love with webOS

It's strange that nobody has mentioned "elegance" yet.

Your comment was very elegant. And intuitive as well.

Coming soon....everybody on.

They should, but HP probably won't. They definitely need to get people thinking about webOS again, especially how openWebOS can run on any 'ol phone by any manufacturer...but if they do it themselves, I guarantee you're going to hear "Pre 4". Because they already did that.

They need a third party to sign up in a big way, and it has to be someone who is willing to put openWebOS on their own "recognizably" branded phone. Like, for example, Samsung or HTC.

No, but they should make a version that is easily installable on the Nexus. I would definitely dual boot on mine!

They absolutely need to make their own device. If they don't, then open WebOS would've been just a huge waste of time. No one else is going to take up webOS, unless HP shows that it is a viable option.
 
If they end up doing a Nexus device, it will have to be phones. They're too deep into Windows 8 tablets to do another Touchpad.

Don't forget, Google doesn't make a Nexus device. They partner with other companies who do the hardware work.

HP lacks the credibility to produce a phone right now. I think on the basis of reputation alone, they are not capable of it. It would flop just because no one would believe in it, no matter how good the specs. (Firing all the hardware engineers also could be a bit of a setback.)

HP needs a credible phone company to partner with. A Samsung, HTC, etc. Someone with a track record of phones that sold, who understands the necessary timelines (HP failed here), who has a decent relationship with carriers (HP has destroyed theirs). They need to provide support for the development process, and even some financial support as an enticement.

Don't get me wrong, I would love a new state-of-the-art phone from HP. But I don't think that is the right path for them.

for the love of all mankind; HP, if you are planning on making a device, PLEASE do not make it a slideout keyboard! We have plenty of those around and as you can see they did not take off. Give us a virtual keyboard slab already!

Seriously though, HP, consider this. If you want people to develop apps and test the latest version of webos on devices, I think it would be good to have something that has the latest and greatest hardware. It can be a developer's platform or a platform that anyone can buy and load webos on to use.

My pre 2 is at its end. I'm tired of it losing calendar sync with our exchange server, (I'll be posting it in the forums) and I need a new phone. There's nothing else out there that I really like so it pains me that I have to leave webos, but there's nothing else happening. I've held on as long as I can, but it's just time for me to move on. If you come out with something quick I might make a switch-back, but as it stands right now, I probably will be investing in another platform. The question is, which one?

What's really sad is that people are starting to understand how google is really out to watch your every move, so using their devices, to me, does not make me feel comfortable. Many are starting to wake up to apple as well. If you guys only stayed in the market, you could've been a differentiating player. Why oh why did you guys pull out. (spare me the reply posts that I've already read a million times)

The main problems with a webOS Nexus are the same ones that people keep pointing out. HP has no idea how to sell a webOS smartphone or tablet which is why HP already fired its webOS hardware people and open-sourced webOS. So it would have to be done by a third party which is also highly unlikely. So maybe the answer is for HP to create its own third party by bringing back the Palm brand and spinning it off as a separate company. Sure it would be wildly expensive but HP has already sunk tons of cash into webOS already and will continue to spend money on it through their open source efforts. So why not spin off Palm and give it enough cash to survive for two years? At this point webOS is just a write off for HP anyway, so why not bring back the hardware unit and let it go out with a bang once they've finished open sourcing the software?

We're all basically spinning dreams here, right? So allow me to dream a bit. Palm is spun off from HP and brings out a new family of tablets and dual radio, carrier free, unlocked world phones. They'll be expensive to be sure but maybe Palm can provide developer discounts they way they did for the Pre (and maybe get the program done right this time).

Other than its use of webOS, the new Palm would break with the immediate past and reach back to the company's glory days with its line of smartphones:

  • The Palm Centro - based on the Pixi form factor. A candy bar phone with a larger 3", 480x320 screen. This is Nu Palm's entry-level phone, priced at under $300. A dual-core 1 GHz processor, 512 MB of RAM, and 8 GB of storage.
  • The Palm Treo - based on the Pre form factor. A portrait slider keyboard with a 3.5", 960x640 retina display. Target it at a $400 price tag with a 1.5 GHz processor, 1GB of RAM, and 16GB of storage.
  • The Palm Tungsten - a traditional slider phone with a landscape QWERTY keyboard with the same price, screen, and hardware specs as the Treo.
  • The Palm Pilot - a classic name for Nu Palm's flagship phone. A thin slab phone with a 4.1", 1440x960 screen - beyond retina display. Give it top end specs with a 2GHz quad core processor, 1GB of RAM, and 32 GB of storage. Price it at $500.

Give Nu Palm's wifi-only tablet line some storm inspired names:

  • The Palm Tornado - Take away the Treo's keyboard and phone and scale the screen up to 5". Sell it for $200.
  • The Palm Hurricane - Take away the Pilot's phone and scale the screen up to 7". Sell it for $300.
  • The Palm Tsunami - Take the Hurricane's specs, double the storage, and give it a crazy resolution like 2880x1920 and a 10" screen. Price it at $400.

Give all the smartphones dual CDMA/GSM radios and sell them unlocked and carrier free. Make the tablets wi-fi tablets which easily tether to any webOS phone. Give all the devices, tablet and smartphone alike a micro-SD expansion slot. Run a standard version of webOS on all devices with as few modifications as possible. (Notice how all my resolution specs were multiples of 480x320?)

Yeah, I know. My post was just a bunch of unreasonable expectations. My specs and price numbers are probably wildly unrealistic. But as I write above, we're all spinning dreams in this thread and this is my dream. A new Palm risen from the ashes putting out great communications hardware running great software.

I am pretty sure everyone on this website feels this would be a dream come true... So many of us were screwed by Leo canceling the Pre3 on us.. and then it hurt even worse when Meg said she wouldn't build anymore cell phone devices..

So the real question is: HOw in gods name do we make this happen? Any internet protesting? Hunger strike? lol I donno

Yes. I just want to see new hardware. HP should contract another OEM to sell an existing phone with webOS installed (maybe cross-brand the way Google does with their Nexus partners) - for example, HP could contract Samsung to sell a version of their Galaxy with webOS installed. It wouldn't have to be Samsung - it could be any OEM (maybe ZTE or a 2nd tier vendor).

But I doubt this will happen. HP has little to gain and has already been burnt before so they are not ready to give it another go.

HP has said they might ship webOS hardware in 2013. After Leopacalypse, I can't say I hold much faith in that. The real tragedy of 2H 2011 was that Leo's shutdown of the webOS HW division left no bridge until open-sourcing of webOS was completed - once the existing devices were sold, there were no new ones in the pipeline. Yes, webOS hardware was not selling well, but, then, HP's Windows 7 slates are not selling well either and HP did not sack all the people responsible for the Win7 slates.

I think the the most likely hope for webOS is that Open Mobile's ACL(Android app compatibility layer) becomes a reality and a 2nd tier OEM decides to take a chance and start selling Open webOS as an Android skin or flavor and, somehow, it catches on and starts to build some momentum (say, maybe a top tier Android OEM has a falling out with Google). If you look at the long history of Unix versions and the history of computing, stranger things have happened.

Good ideas never die - they usually end up getting adopted at some point. For example, in the 70's, Xerox PARC pioneered the GUI, object oriented programming, and peer-to-peer network connectivity (ethernet). Though those concepts were never commercialized by Xerox and it took 25 years, eventually all of those ideas became the foundation for modern computing. We already see some of the key concepts featured in webOS making it to other OSes (cards, notification handling, synergy) and that trend will no doubt continue.

I think it is obvious that most of us want it, but it seems logical that it would be necessary for open webOS to succeed.

Why can't HP hijack the iPad3. I'm sure someone ... Or assembly of someones could pull it off.

WebOS is for phones. For the TouchPad they removed it's unique and best features like the physical keyboard, gestures, and the wave bar. Nothing is simpler, faster, or more versatile for phones. The TouchPad was not "special" enough.

Of course they should get someone to make a "Nexus". They could resort to only selling "direct" like the original Nexus if the Carriers won't carry it, allowing them to just provide wireless services without OS or hardware support. THIS MIGHT BE ALL IT TAKES TO RESUCITATE WEBOS! Once the latest and greatest hardware gets WebOS and then gets reviewed by those who set the trends, all bets are off! It could quickly be a hit if the hardware and OS work great together.

It would cost HP, though they wouldn't have to design, manufacture, or even support the hardware. Just do this long enough to give it a real chance (unlike last year).

The back-end WebOS servers are ready and waiting.

Yes they should! I think it is unlikely but it would be good for webOS.

I think they should if they do a nexus class device they should make two a phone and a tablet.

They are probably are already working on ARM tablets for Windows 8 so they could make a webOS version of that.

I want new webOS tablet most of all but I would be persuaded by an awesome phone.

WebOS officially died when they eliminated all of the hardware people. I know that is a tough pill to swallow but it's true. HP bought Palm for the patent library and when that exec made the comment about not buying it to break into the smartphone business (basically confirming what I just said) they did some major back-peddling and rushed out the POS Veer which no one bought (in an attempt to prove them wrong) and then the Touchpad as an experiment to see if it would sell. It wasn't a home run so they cut their losses and killed it. The tide changed at HP and they listened to the consumer outcry, but they sill have no idea what to do with WebOS so they chose to open source it to see if anyone else has better ideas but also retain control of the patents. We aren't gonna see any HP WebOS hardware for at least a couple years if at all and even then it will be something to cash in on what someone else did. If there was any possibility of new hardware any time soon those 250 positions would not have been eliminated. It's great that all of these people have all of this passion for WebOS but sadly it has lost it's niche. All of the things that make it great (multitasking cards, synergy, and web apps) are present in the Blackberry Tablet Operating System (or BB10) and overall done better, but with the full support of a major company willing to invest capital into it they are continuing to improve.

"it'll be hard enough to convince any manufacturer to pick up webOS, it'll be even harder to convince the carriers to give webOS yet another chance"

Oh guys, please stop thinking that any manufacturer needs a carrier to sell phones ! That may be the US way of thinking, but that was the original sin for Palm pre, having to deal with a second hand carrier when it was so simple to launch the phone, let everybody say "wooow" and ask their carrier to get it.

Here in France, the "phone-carrier" deal was broken twice. First when concurrency authorities forced Apple to sell the iPhone to any carrier, then in a second time when a new carrier, "Free mobile" was the first to offer low-cost contracts, that are low-cost only because... there's no phone with them. Any phone, any choice, guess what ? It's a huge success.

HP needs to unveil a new "nexus" phone, so new (and different from the pre-vious ones) that many will want it (see what samsung did with the galay note and s2) despite what carriers offer. Too bad Palm didn't undestand that 4 years ago !

The US doesn't work that way, and an unlocked phone really only works fully on one carrier here (T-Mobile is technically GSM, but they have an odd band for 3G that many unlocked phones don't support).

But remember, HP tried going without carriers (not by their choosing, mind you) for the first 5 months or so of the Pre 2. It was a failure like every other webOS device. I guess they could tuck tail and try being a Euro-centric device maker, but there's the matter of the (already crappy) App Catalog being very US-centric.

RETORIC QUESTION MR. KESSLER!

Off course we would love to see this happen!

WTF DarthRepublican?! You just summarized every Palm/webOS lovers utopia! Man I WOULD almost WORSHIP HP if they spun off and resurrect Palm from the far beyond dream land it's now. They have been -slowly but steady- giving some good steps into putting this whole project back in track, where it should be; so Meg should just say: "what the hell! let's bring back Palm to life and use its once unreachable_innovative hardware and bring it to the modern_high_every day changing tech world of today!"

They didn't do that on their own (as hp) so it's very unlikely, but one can only dream (max if you are a Palm/webOS romantic lover that has been only thought to do so by both companies).

SO COME ON HP AND BRING BACK PALM AS IT SHOULD BE (right hardware and marketing -the rest will be webOS work-) AND WE PROMISE YOU IT'LL SHAKE THE TECH WORLD ONCE AGAIN WITH WEBOS!!!

LONG WILL LIVE WEBOS!!!

Meg did state that HP doesn't want to play in the smartphone games, yet they may still make another tablet. That bothers me because this new generation of "tablets" are entirely based on an OS made for a smartphone. I don't really see how or why they would compete in the tablet market without doing so in the smartphone market.

They should go back to trying to follow Apple and put out at least one phone per year and a "Nexus-"type device would be a perfect fit. Open webOS is supposed to be completed by August, right? So, they've got all that time to make plans for ONE device (whereas every other OS, save iOS, has dozens going out per year per manufacturer). Just aim for one for now and get started SOMEWHERE while other partners are made.

So here's the thing, Apple Just announced the IPad 4 - to be available 3/15. HP/Palm could NEVER do that - at best it was 6 month after they announce a product that it was available. Part of the reason webOS failed.

And that was with a product they wanted to make money with.

Mozilla has a project "Boot to Gecko" that Engadget had an article about ( http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/28/mozilla-boot-to-gecko-hands-on-video/ ) - this OS reportable can be put on ANY android type phone.

This is where HP needs to focus on, Not hardware - that they contract out (and couldn't ship) anyway!!!

The way I figure, that would give us the best of both worlds - the best Mobile OS, and the best and most current Hardware.

I think the more important question is can a manufacturer, be it HP or another, design and produce a smartphone that can run and switch between WebOS and say Android, at the flick of a (icon) switch?

This way the primary reason for buying such a smartphone would be that it had Android, with lots of Apps, but with the possibility for trying out WebOS and if persuaded by its superior user interface, to increase usage of WebOS.

Only then might there be public curiosity, recognition and potentially mass appeal for WebOS. Potential customers could not argue against buying such a phone, due to lack of Apps, and WebOS developers would then have a much bigger market to make it worthwhile to develop WebOS Apps.

At the moment we have a chicken and egg situation. Customers new to WebOS wouldn't buy a WebOS phone due to lack of apps, and developers won't develop for WebOS due to lack of customers.

Therefore we simply need something to break this cycle.

Do you agree?

In my mind what's there to lose from a "twin OS" smartphone?
It could capture WebOS enthusiasts, Android enthusiasts and all those other customers "undecided" or "open-minded."

Without question HP should make webOS devices, but let's face reality.

HP would never take this risk again without the support from the carriers and the carriers won't support webOS devices since most people decide to buy Android or (duh!) iOS.

I still hope for a high quality device that is open enough for open webOS. I'm going to miss the hardware keyboard, but that's a small price to pay.

Let's hope that HP opens webOS completely, including phone support. A Tablet is nice and all, but I also like to have a webOS phone after my Pre3.

It won't happen but it sure would be a great thing to happen. I would buy one or two.

Even if HP couldn't get them into stores, if they could get carrier buy-in, initially HP could sell them out of their store. For example, Verizon may not want to give shelf space but they may be willing to have it on their network.

Just thinking ....

I'm wondering what kind of HP webOS tablet would be considered a "hero" if it comes out a year AFTER the new iPad with its insane display specs, battery life, LTE, at the $499 price point that the competition was having a had time matching last year.

Also, I don't see how a hardware company puts out reference designs without having some prototypes built. It would seem that you would need a hardware department to develop the prototypes. What manufacturer would try to build a device that HP had not even made a prototype of? And if HP could build the proof-of-concept prototype why wouldn't they just go ahead and build the devices? They are a consumer technology hardware company aren't they? They are going to build and market Windows 8 tablets aren't they? They have economies of scale, don't they? They have great relationships with suppliers and an unmatched retail distribution presence, don't they?

And, I'm guessing that HP isn't going to give away the production designs of the Windows 8 tablets that they have been working on.

None of this makes any sense outside of this site..

HP needs something to prove and will always be tough on coming out because anything put out will be met with skepticism and mistrust. When that device comes out, we the WebOS Nation, needs to back it up!

Oh for sure, they should do that! I just upgraded to the Nexus S 4G from original Pre and the Nexus is an awesome device. It is solid, and has a smooth and fast experience.

These kind of posts depress me. HP already said they're out of the smartphone business. Heck, we're begging for a tablet yet alone a smartphone. It's not happening anytime soon. It'd be nice, but no.

You know what impresses me a lot.. Is the new tablet by Samsung.. The idea of bringing back the stylus is awesome. the fact that the stylus even went away was absurd.. I want to be able to draw high quality renderings w/ issue on my touchpad. I wnat to be able to write on top of PDFs, I want to have crisp precision so I can take notes perfectly w/ a stylus.

I not only want that on a touchpad, but on my pre3. (which is temporarily broke until i buy a new one)

But the fact of the matter remains... I'm sad right now because I am jealous of that thing.. I am growing tired of waiting. I love the pre3 to death, and I love my touchpad.. But WebOS needs to start thinking more about how to run 2 applications side by side. So I can look at 2 windows at the same time (any application) kinda like a desktop computer.. Unless there is a patch or application that can do this already? It would be nice to know about.

Man I hope HP is trolling these posts to see all the great ideas floating around!

Hahahahaha! Good one!

I couldn't care less about webOS on new hardware. I want to see webOS improved and optimized first.

I know I'm one of these old codgers when I say this, but please bring back the great features of Palm OS. Improve the Calendar, Contacts, cut & paste, etc. And please bring back a desktop app to sync with. And make webOS more customizable--without using a theme, you should be able to adjust font sizes, colors, etc. much more easily.

Oh and E-mail...holy crap does that SUCK in webOS on the phones. On the Touchpad it's marginally better...but not by much.

I'd rather be driving a Model T on a road that's smooth as glass, than a $$$ sports car on a broken, cobblestone horse path.

This article is a joke, right? Asking Precent...er, webosnation readers if they want a new webOS device? I wonder what they will say!!!

This would've been an interesting thought a year ago, when HP was invested in webOS. Should they shelve their own hardware development, and create a Nexus-like device in corroboration with another manufacturer. But now? Why would they consider doing it, when there is almost no incentive to do so? I understand speculative articles, but come on. This is just playing off people's extreme desire for a new webOS device. Is NOT going to happen. Sorry guys.

Be fair - this place has to fill column inches somehow, when you cover a platform with no real news and no buzz you end up with... articles like this.

Agreed. This and the article about the new iPad coming are the only ones that people comment on much these days - aside from the giveaways. And if it weren't for us trolls, the comment wouldn't even be worth reading. How many times do we need to read things like "Yes! HP should do it!" or look at someone's rendering of the logo of a platform that nobody has heard of.

This is a healthy debate that is fun to read. One guy says that he thinks that the webOS hardware engineers (who all got laid off months ago) are cooking up a surprise. The next guy says he has read that there might be a surprise coming. The guy after that asks when the surprise might actually show up. The next guy then says that it would be logical to do so right before the launch of the iPhone 5. The guy after that starts a countdown timer for the new webOS hardware.

The forum debate that kicked off this article is even funnier - with people convinced that a re-release of a unlocked pre 3 would lead to massive success for WebOS.

The purpose of the device is not for general public. Its just a showcase to attract OEM. And if they decide to sell to general public i.e. the few on webosnation, I welcome it and I will buy one.
I guess Derek should have said a "Lab" only device.

And now all of you naysayers backoff. Just BACKOFF.
Why on earth you guys are wasting time on this forum posting on a dead platform with no prospects of survival.

Amen!

First off, the purpose of a Nexus device is NOT to "attract OEMs". Android has plenty of them already. They issue Nexus devices because they want to release a pure Android experience tuned to a specific OS version. The Nexus One showed off Eclair and Froyo. The Nexus S showed off Gingerbread. The Galaxy Nexus did it for Ice Cream Sandwich.

Since there are NO "skinned" versions of webOS to distinguish from or even interested manufacturers, that very concept is ludicrous.

As for attracting OEMs, releasing reference hardware does nothing to accomplish that. This isn't an Ultrabook, and HP isn't Intel. Mobile Phone OEMs are attracted by HP or Google or Microsoft or Apple offering a well-bankrolled ecosystem with lots of apps and developer interest that will make carriers happy. They already have their own supply chain, preferred SoC and display tech, and design principles. Samsung isn't going to release a regular TFT display device anymore than HTC will use NOVA displays anymore than LG will use Super AMOLED Plus. And each has had multiple opportunities to buy or license webOS if they wanted or needed it so bad. Not one Android OEM has ever made a competitive bid. ZERO.

What they need is the app/content/integration ecosystem. Since HP failed miserably at putting that together even when they were spending billions, there is no way they will accomplish this with a skeleton crew, way less money invested, and more competition than ever.

Nobody is "wasting time on this forum posting about a dead blah blah blah". The OS will survive, but not as a modern commercially-viable product. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that. It's not naysaying to feel moisture falling on your head and to call it rain. In HP's case, it's a monsoon.

CGK, I don't think anyone said that. You're missing the point.

This is hilarious stuff. Is this for real? They're dreaming that HP might make some reference hardware for webOS?

Whatever for? WebOS has been running around with a fork in it for a long time. HP wants nothing more to do with it. Even Derek is writing for iMore claiming the Sprint iphone 4S is the best smartphone ever. No doubt he'll be first in line to grab a new ipad.

It's over. Your lead writer is championing another platform. HP (rightfully) wants nothing to do with webOS and has fired most of the staff that had much to do with it. No other hardware maker would touch it this train wreck of an OS with no ecosystem. It's only a matter of time before this site goes bye bye as well.

It IS playing off our desire, but heck, HP has back-tracked on everything else, why not this?

Gingerbread and then ICS = forward movement. What has webOS done in that timeframe? It's a floater and some day what made it once unique will be common place and in just a short time there will not be even any mention of webOS-inpired features. As far as hardware is concerned, HP could have launched the Pre3 or anythign else and knew they'd never recoup costs. I got my launch-day Pre- just like many of you. "It's dead, Jim". Move on.

webOS isn't dead... It's going to be open scource soon & will have a VERY slim chance @ even being mentioned by anyone... But I think webOS deserves another chance : )

It would be great, but HP has done too many steps in the opposite direction to hardware than having them making (or financing) a "nexus" for webOS is stupid.
But someone has to be the first one. The truth is that, in this case and all related with success storied around webOS, the "webOS hackers" (i.e. people who loves webOS and program for it, even the internals) will do the first webOS Open phone.
Actually I've said it wrong: they will adapt the first non-HP phone to work with webOS.
But let's be serious: why webOS could do some shadow to Android? Not in the Apps field, of course, but in the cost and performance. How much do you (as phone maker) has to pay to Android to use it in your phone? And how much will you pay for webOS?
Don't forget webOS is powered by Linux, the most versatile operating system in the whole world (yes, more than Java), and every day lot more. Android phones are build on top of Linux, so webOS has some advantage on leaving on Linux instead on top of it.
But only a powerful-and-free OS will shadow Android.
And how to shadow iOS? well, that's easy too: make it as much powerful and stable as iOS. iOS is the best tested OS for tablets and phones in the world. And it'sready for Intel PCs!!!.

...Linux, the most versatile operating system in the whole world (yes, more than Java)...

LOL

And how to shadow iOS? well, that's easy too: make it as much powerful and stable as iOS.

Easy? ROFL...I wonder why HP didn't just do that in the first place. They could have been #1+ by now. :-)

Simple: YES

BRUTAL HARDWARE!!!!

In general, no expandable memory. Way too much cheap plastic. Materials the cracked, scratched, or broke in general. Most devices had too little RAM, too little flash memory, slow booting, humdrum CPU's, GPUs that were difficult or impossible to utilize, small screens with poor accuracy, tablets without gesture areas or decent cameras. Basically high-tech look or feel, and often grabbed hold of Apple's weaknesses and ran with it. BRUTAL.

Here is a phrase you never heard: "Great hardware, too bad the o/s is holding back this break out device." But the opposite was found far too often.

Kickstarter.com or a similar way of capturing the community's commitment of actually buying the phone to me sounds like a good solution.

HP is on the fence about making any phone these days, mainly because it doesn't know how much the public really wants/buy this or any phone. It should simply put up a phone (even the existing Palm Pre 3 would be fine) and what $ amount per phone or number of orders it would need to actually make this investment profitable for them.

Perhaps those in the hardware division recently laid off by HP will start their own company to build a phone and use the free webos now. Just a thought I'm dreaming will happen as I sadly start switching over to a Windows phone.

Since this fantasy is repeatedly batted around these parts, maybe you all want to read up on Joo Joo and Notion Ink to see what the environment is like out there for tiny, independent companies releasing small batches of hardware using open-source OSes.

(SPOILER: Pretty damn brutal)

Interestingly enough, my words are being discussed in the accompanying thread in the forums. The same forums I'm not allowed in for whatever reason.

So responding to marcedhk's points:

1) "Please be advised that the manufacturing world is not comprised solely of those top tier companies, and that the mobile device market is only ruled by the carriers in a few markets. This skewed US/UK-centric view of what the market is like and what the possible routes to success are is seriously blinding some to alternatives that can be taken to get webOS out there into the hands of consumers."
and
2)"But other companies do put out reference hardware to attract OEM's! Please review the following video and listen to the the reasons given for why this reference design device was put out there (video of Snapdragon reference handset)"

1) Sure there are "alternative routes" to get devices in the hands of consumers, but do you honestly want some Joo-Joo or Viewsonic caliber-junk from a company that has no retail presence, even LESS global reach than Palm, no money to invest in promotion and will get panned by every tech site in the reviews before they even get to talking about the software? No, the US/UK is not the world, but you need to succeed here to be a real player in the modern smartphone world.
2) Yes, CHIPMAKERS or Corning Gorilla Glass might put out a reference design to show off a single COMPONENT they want other manufacturers to use. HP has no components to design, make, or market, so the comparison is invalid. They are selling an OS, and as Nokia said, manufacturers want ECOSYSTEMS. If they can't succeed at selling Android devices, then selling webOS will be way, way, way, waaaaaaaaay harder.

I love how some of them use the phrase "...to get webOS out there into the hands of consumers..." as if webOS hasn't been out there (and failing) since mid 2009. What year are we in now again? 2012? OK...maybe it's time to finally get webOS out there because, apparently, everything up until now has been a "soft launch".

Yeah, webOS has had its turn in the limelight when it was the flagship smartphone of one of the big three carriers, inherited the premier name in smartphones, and was the original "iPhone Killer" - back in 2009. It had a marketing budget back then, also. Every subsequent launch after the Pre has been less and less effective, mostly because the competition in all mobile categories got more fierce.

Now that 90% of the webOS work force has been fired - the real platform capital - there really isn't any possibility of any of this speculation coming to fruition. It's still fun to talk about but nobody who is reading this should think that there is any webOS hero device coming of any kind.

As far as webOS goes, since 2009, the naysayers have been right all the way down the line.

I have my fingers crossed the webOS Internals guys can get it running on new hardware (any hardware - phone, tablet, PC). That's the only hope it has. That's the only thing anyone should be working on at this point. Improvements to the OS are wasted effort if there's nothing to run it on. I love webOS, but it's go two feet and an arm in the grave and is sinking fast.

They should focus on getting running on Pre 2, Pre 3 Veer and TouchPad first, then porting it to "generic" Android style hardware. Then they should probably just persuade/ bribe ZTE or some other manufacturer to pump out phones for them.

I think HP should pay a company that DOESN't use plastic in their smartphones like Motorola ... Palm had a love affair with plastic & I want that love affair to end with Open webOS ... They should make a "Nexus" device for HP but continue a series that represents webOS: the "Pre" series .... I like the Pre name better

The name should be 'Phoenix' (WebOs like a phoenix from the ashes ;)
and they should hold on to the slider form. It is a representative design for WebOS.

I highly doubt HP will make a Nexus device for Enyo 2. Technically the touchpad is but that aint a good one due to some persistent hardware issues and warranty concerns. They are converting the platform to a linux standard which would make the current android phones compatible so my money is they want nothing to do with the consumer side of webOS anymore and want other hardware already out be their nexus device. Another thing to consider is does HP want webOS to stay in the phone/tablet market already drinched by android/iOS or do they have plans for it to go to other markets.

"Android tablet surge will be led by Google-Motorola, HP, Dell in '12

One HP source told me that the HP’s Slate 2 does not support Andoid but that the company has a plan to release a product that is similar to the iPad and that runs Android."

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/android-tablet-surge-will-be-led-b...

The chance of HP developing an Android tablet is probably higher than the chance of HP doing a webOS tablet again.

Help yeah, ID buy the prexus!

There are far too many monsters in the smartphone woods these days. Meg was wise to state their next webOS device isn't going to be a smartphone. (While being iffy on a tablet before 2013.). Too much risk for too little reward. Let it go.

If HP is to make a reference device, it has to make a choice-- chase Amazon down the cheap price rabbit hole with less and less refinement, or go after Apple again. If it's not after either goal, then what's the point of making a "hero device" at all?

The original problem with the Android/iOS fight is the same problem when the original Pre flopped-- if you can't beat either of them on user adoption or price, you have no dog in the fight to begin with. MS has yet to learn- HP shuttering webOS and RIM going near bankruptcy may have given Windows Phone third place, but not because of Microsoft's merits or prowess in development... Third place was merely handed to them.

I think Microsoft is learning this, actually, but like everyone else, they are unable to get products to market in an Apple-esque fashion. When Apple announces an iPhone or iPad, it's ready NEXT WEEK. The Titan II and Lumia N900 are beast handsets, but have been delayed far beyond CES. What's worse is that the announcements probably stalled existing handset sales as people decided to wait for the latest and greatest if they were going to commit to Windows Phone.

Now, there's talk of Sprint and Verizon getting dual-core WP8 devices this fall, so now customers experience even more option paralysis.

All of this underscores how quickly the marketplace is moving, and HP's execution speed seems to be slower than that, so they should continue to stay out of the smartphone game....pretty much forever. That leaves tablets, but they're facing a WAY more competitive tablet landscape this fall than they did last summer when the Touchpad dropped. I just don't see a way forward.

@Jessicatapley I agree with you about how quickly the marketplace is growing & how HP is being very pokey with open scourcing webOS , but I think they MIGHT have a sliver chance in the smartphone game. I mean look @ the unreleased Pre 3. It was fast & gorgeous. Sure it was just a single core processor , but it was & still is pretty fast. It was just that HP never had the nerve to even try & release the Pre 3 to see if it would have any possitive affect for them. They had a chance & that's what mattered but they blew it & instead let all those Pre 3's sit in a warehouse to never see the light of day. The Palm team is capable of making a great smartphone , so I think saying they should just quit on smartphones is not very true , but I do agree with everyhing else you said .

I'm not so sure HP had a choice in the matter. The assumption is "they let the Pre 3 sit in a warehouse". I'm not sure that is correct. There has been lots of talk of carriers simply saying "no". Remember when HP instructed fans to bombard Sprint with requests? They admitted that it was Sprint that didn't want them and not the other way around. Why would you tell your fans to "let Sprint know you want more webOS devices" if you were the one holding back on the carriers? No, you usually ask your fans to request something from the outlet that is blocking you. My hunch is that Sprint was not the only one that said no and THAT is why those devices sat around in a warehouse.

ohhhhh yeah sorry I forgot about that lol :)

The Pre 3 being "fast" and "gorgeous" doesn't mean too much. Microsoft had just released a bunch of "fast" Windows Phones with the exact same resolution in vastly more popular slab form factors at the end of the year prior. Carriers and reps still gave them - and anybody not Google or Apple - the cold shoulder when customers were looking for devices to buy.

The Palm team had a whopping SIZ chances to make " a great smartphone", and they never did. However great parts of webOS are, nobody lusts after the hardware on ANY webOS device.

that is true :/ HP/Palm lost all respect from carriers because they failed over & over again & simply throwing out a third riverstone didn't help the predicament . I mean look @ the Pixi back in 2009 ... Yeah it was attractive , but underpowered . I suppose you're right :)

Oh come on - webOS is dead and there will never be new hardware from HP to run the open source version. Never.

What's HPs motivation? I'm sure they would rather it just go away - their future is Windows.

If another manufacturer did pick it up it would be a branch and HP wouldn't be involved: @see the Amazon Kindle Fire branch of Android.

You can kid yourself on but with four major competing mobile OSes - and no ecosystem to speak of, who would make the investment?