Sprint CFO on Pre: 'Didn't work out as well as we hoped' 67
File this one under "Stuff we knew, deep down inside." While discussing Sprint's future and the upcoming EVO 4G launch, CFO Bob Brust took a moment to talk about how the Palm Pre fared on his network:
"The Pre didn't work out as well as we hoped," he said. Brust said Sprint didn't have enough Pres to meet demand, which he said will not be an issue with the Evo
Not having enough phones to meet demand doesn't exactly jive with our memory of how the Pre fared on Sprint, but it's certainly the opposite problem that Verizon faced: too much inventory and not enough excitement. Either way, it's bittersweet to read that even the favorite network for most of our readers is now admitting they could have done better with the Pre. Let's hope we won't be waiting for a similar admission from AT&T in the months to come.
In any case, we're hoping Sprint can pull through and see brighter days, but we're not sure how much emphasis they'll be putting on the Pre now that they have their Android darling the EVO 4G. Add in Verizon's newfound love for the Droid Incredible and the anticipation for the iPhone HD on AT&T and it's looking like a tough summer for webOS. That HP buyout is looking sweeter by the day.
via @phonescooper
67 Comments
The HP buyout is looking sweeter. I just wish Sprint or Palm would give some inclination on if a new Palm device will be hitting Sprint at some point or not.
It also 'Didn't work out as well as we hoped' because Sprint's network and employees are a massive fail. I really hope Palm ditches Sprint in the near future.
I disagree. While my coverage isn't the greatest ever, I'll admit, but their customer service has gotten a lot better than it used to be. I also don't hope Palm ditches them, because I like having Sprint and I love my Pre. I'll take a tad bit less coverage for a huge discount in monthly expense. It works in the vast majority of places I need it to, except for in the basement at home. But I'm ok with that.
odd I have been with sprint for 10 years and have never had a coverage issue. In fact I have been with every carrier (usually through business) and sprints coverage has been better then all of them. Sprint is underrated, and if you look at sales to date sprint still sold more pre's, and pixi's by far. So it would be stupid for Palm/HP to sever their relationship with sprint. Sprint also advertised the pre, and the shortcomings, even stating they didnt have enough inventory tells you they sold alot (over 2million as of janurary). A new device when launched on sprint will sell a whole lot more, now not only that in my mind as you can see basic sales of android fad is settling, but alot of people out there have tried web os and prefer it over android, and Apples OS. A new device will be a success when its released on sprint this year mark my words.
I disagree too. I've tried and tried to evade Sprint coverage by driving hundreds of miles in all directions in California and I can't escape it no matter what I do. Calls are NEVER dropped. Unless you're in some really obscure place, I think its hard to argue that Sprint's network is a massive fail. Can't speak too much about employees though. I saw them on Pre launch day and they were extremely helpful. Haven't had a reason to communicate with Sprint since. Everything works just fine for me.
Try coming to the northeast, or at least New England.
I'm from New England, the only places I ever had problems were middle of the woods when camping and BuFu Maine, where I roamed right onto VZW.
When the Pre first came out, there were definite issues meeting demand for sprint and the need to wait for a unit to come in likely hurt salesof the Pre.
Just get rid of exclusives altogether.
Only reason up here in Canada why nobody except the few of us here on PreCentral uses a Pre because of Bell. Barely advertise or train their staff properly, horrible customer service, then phone gets thrown into the corner as a bargain basement text phone.
Look at GSM. You get AT&T customers, as well as the unlockers. End of the day, sales. And that's what Palm needs.
Exclusives are the price you pay to get the carriers to help with advertising and earn prime location in the stores and websites. Goods and bads with the deal. If Palm TV spots were to only exposure they got last summer, Palm may not have made it to January. Just because we were assimilated, doesn't mean we'd have company.
So, theChrisLake, what carrier do you use? And why would you wish they ditch Sprint?
Regardless of the network you use, why would you not want webOS on as many networks as possible? The more usage on a variety of networks the better for webOS!!
Here's a question that I don't know the answer to, but I think I can guess. Can you name a single phone that has been offered by so many different carriers?
In other words, sure HTC and Motorola have many different phones on many different networks, but has there been a phone like the Pre/Pre Plus that has existed as the "same phone" on so many carriers at one time?
palm needs to hire "secret shoppers" to check on carrier in store sales reps and store display management. ATT store by my house had months to prepare for launch... And no pre displayed, not a single sign /poster on launch day. All we can do as advocates for pre is stop in our local stores and voice our interest for pre. If they are not informing customers about webos... Voice your concern to management. Looks like pre gets put in the corner, not given fair representation it deserves
nobody puts baby in the corner..... Come on someone had to go there. Lol..
I've been with sprint for 10years through the ups and downs.. But unlike most people I actually travel alot around the country. No matter where I go I have reception.. And the few times I was not on the sprint network in 10yrs I was roaming.. But roaming is free at sprint so it really didn't matter I roamed for a few minutes while driving through some B.F.E. Area... But I had reception.
;-) I'm glad someone went there
its funny how we blame every carrier and their employees but not palm
they did a lot wrong with the pre and handling webos. if pre was awesome, carriers and workers would be more excited to support and recommend it. pre has 2,000 apps, it's not verizon or sprint's fault that they recommend something like android over webos for the app user.
announcing it 6 months early, small screen, bad hardware, this is all palm's fault. palms one of the rare companies that ends up right back where they were, drowning, after a year of super excitement and an innovative OS, and it's their fault, not sprint, verizon and now at&ts
verizons lack of support was not funny. Their bs mom ads were .... As bizarre as palm's ads . Verizon reps were all about droid at pre launch... And it crushed palm. Palm has been focusing on webos ....not apps.
droid has 50k apps... On inferior android os. I'm patient. I can wait for devs to port apps to webos. Btw - it was palm listening to us and constantly updating webos since launch that saved their ass. HP doubled down on it. Webos differentiates from the rest. With time, it will be the best. Then we will have a ton of apps. I can wait....because when it comes... It's going to be the bar to measure up to.
If the Pre had come out with all the PDA features ALREADY present in the Treo line, I guarantee it would have sold many more units. I returned mine because it is a truly awful PDA compared to my 6-year-old Treo 650.
your mistake was returning it. It has vastly improved since launch... And keeps getting better. Instant gratification is expensive... Locking yourself into another phone for 1 , 2 years.... Not running webos.... Is also another mistake.
None of the PDA functions have been changed, and I doubt they will. They are sub-par to existing 10-year-old applications. Being locked into a 2-year contract of a useless PDA is a mistake. I went back to my 650, bought a used 755p, and then decided to get a Centro. All are more useful than the Pre when it comes to basic PDA functionality.
I specifically chose not to recommend Pre because of the missing PIM features and carry over. And nearly ditched my own Pre until I rebuilt the feature set the hard way.
What are you using for a calendar and such? Are you able to map custom fields to the contact information? Also have you found an way to get a truly Universal search (a la PalmOS)? These are my main gripes about the Pre.
On the hardware side, the phone is too top-heavy when the slider is open, which makes the phone difficult to type one-handed.
Palm was lucky to get as much love from Sprint as they did. And their stores and staff have been top notch in working with customers and presenting the Pre, despite it's obvious shortcomings.
What had Palm done in the previous two years to deserve better? Sprint gets an A for effort and a B+ on result IMO.
palm lucky? Palm created webos. Webos is what makes the pre stand out from all other smart phones. I've been with sprint for 10 yrs. Palms stock rose to $18 via sprint ... I agree sprint A+. It got punished by verizon down to as low as $3. Looks like the same for ATT. ATT in bed with apple, verizon spooning google android.
When it comes to being picked up by your first carrier for a new device, you're only as good as your last device and recent sales.
Palm 800/850 were so lackluster, the Pre should have been paired with TracFone. Palm was lucky Sprint took them on and made Pre their champion. If anyone thinks ATT or VZ would have taken Pre and given it front and center in their mix, it's time for that Continuing Education class on basic marketing. I'm sure Palm asked both carriers, and I'm sure the most either did for Ruby was to validate his parking ticket.
I just wish there was at least one tv spot that really showcases the pre's strenghts.
A paid programming advertisement infomercial would be an interesting concept to showcase WebOS. Especially now that WebOS is about 70-80% developed.
A half hour on QVC or HSN would be a novel concept as well.
The only way Palm announces new hardware prior to EVO release is if they are putting it on another carrier. Don't expect new hardware before August.
I'm a Sprint Premier member since I have a family plan that costs more than $100/month and that means that I can get a new, subsidized phone every year instead of every two. I've been hoping to hear about new hardware from Palm because a) my Pre is not holding up to normal day-to-day use (power button not working etc), and b) the hardware needs a revamp for more RAM and CPU Oomph. I also am incredibly disappointed at the lack of Apps. It's been a year and there are like 4 apps that I think are any good: tweed, GameCenter by GameFly, facebook, and engadget. I love the phone parts of it, but hate the hardware and applications.
Well, 4 out of 2000 isn't as bad as 4 out of 100,000 like you would have on the Apple app store...
right mikey... Like all 100k of those apps are useful. Don't make me post examples of pure garbage iphone apps. You can have your apps. I'm doubling down on the future os webos .
HP = deep pockets = bright future for webos.
apple users = sheep
Clearly you didn't read what Mikey posted
my apologies mikey... i agree 100%.
Either, they have to exhaust that glut of product they have in on selves, or they have to finalize the HP takeover. So July or August is the earliest we can hope for. Not that far off. HP can afford to eat a few units and maybe offer them as a bundle package. Buy a Preo, get a Pre for free on contract.
Psst, Dieter! "Jibe with," not "jive with."
I've consistently seen both forms of this word used, in addition to 'gibe'. So much that they are starting to become synonymous. Language is a living breathing entity whose words change meaning over time.
http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=20000711
gibe= to taunt or heckle
jibe= to be in agreement
jive= to fake or deceive
jibe is the only one that Dieter could have meant, but you are correct about seeing it all three ways on this site! :)
they didn't have enough phones or inventory. It sold out at most locations within an hour of the place opening. I purchased mine at best buy and they had two, they had to turn away at least 15 people while i was there becase there wasn't enough. Then people had to wait at least a month for another shipment to come in. I am not sure if anyone else remembers this hassle, but i do. i was certainly glad I showed up on June 6th and waited in the rain and the first one in line at Best Buy.
Although the Evo is looking pretty sweet and catching my eye as Palm really isn't doing anything right now except waiting for the buyout to be complete. I can get the EVO and serve my year on sprint and then be able to get a new Palm device as I am sure they won't be putting anything else out this year. Which in turn will keep hurting them - oh sure they may put out the palm pre Plus on Sprint, but hello it is almost the same phone I can live with less ram and memory in the meantime. i don't plan on paying another two bills for the same phone. So i certainly hope something new comes out but as it is now they are getting further and further behind the ball everyday while Android is getting bigger and bigger and could soon be leading the market. Goodbye WebOS and hello Android? to be continued...........
So the CFO is saying that the Pre did not do as well as hoped because Palm did not supply enough inventory for Sprint and not because Sprint customers did not want the Pre or Sprint/Palm marketing was mediocre?
Do phones only sell lots of units during their first 3 months, is that what the CFO meant, and if you miss that window then the phone doesn't sell (Sprint certainly had enough Palm inventory by last Aug, 2 months after release)?
Is the CFO making an argument for how to have the next gen Palm phone sell well on Sprint's network?
considering the poor performance of the Pre i don't think the CFO is making any argument at all about a next gen Palm phone.
I believe he's referring to the Palm's inability to meet initial demand and to capitalize on the buzz at launch. To that i think he's right that they didn't capitalize. I think however he's trying to be nice and just not say the phone wasn't good enough to impress consumers. Because demand fell sharply soon after launch. i think marketing had something to do with it as well. i think it was the whole package wasn't good enough for the average consumer.
those that are patient will be rewarded. As far as droid....for me... Nevr. My bro has it.... Does not compare . Homebrew is strong and impressive.
go buy evo... Goodluck! Android is a hardware competition. Evry week a new phone outdating the current ( nexus who?). Palm rewards it's users with software innovation. Small screen? It fits in the palm of my hand. It's a phone. I put it in my pocket. Maybe a bit bigger would be better, but not much more for me
Three months is a long time to wait for a new WebOS model. Nine months is a really long time to wait to ditch an Evo with its $10/month surcharge and get back into WebOS, finally done right.
First, I think AT&T definitely is not going to sell a lot of Pre Pluses with all of the sales reps pushing iPhone.
Secondly, I think the main reason the Pre underperformed would be the early hardware issues and Sprint's bad reputation.
It's hard to get someone to take a chance on a device when the build quality is marginal and the network is stigmatized. Blackberry and iPhone were king and queen at the time, and Android is gaining traction because it's free and there's a lot of hardware variety.
My launch day Pre is, by far, the best phone I have ever owned. It will be interesting to see if my next phone will be WebOS or Android.
Well, I guess there is something in here if you read between the lines. If the Sprint CFO thinks it really went south because of not having enough on hand, he really is pointing the finger at Palm for the failure -- not Sprint.
Sprint couldn't do ANYTHING about not having enough product on hand. Sprint committed to the 6/6/09 date and could not move it without extreme backlash. It was up to Palm to fill their inventory. If that inventory was lacking, it truly was Palm's fault, not Sprint's.
In my situation, the Sprint clerk that sold me my Pre was very much behind the product, so I agree with this a little. I walked in, my ex-wife mentioned looking for a phone like the iPhone and she rebutted with "The Palm Pre. It destroys the iPhone, here it is, try it out."
I can't vouch for every Sprint rep, but the one I dealt with was certainly motivated about the Pre.
yeah i was at two sprint stores and a best buy on launch day and it was all about the Pre. They had special roping and carpets and several display models and people showing them off. My best buy even had a guy walking around with two live working phones letting people hold and use them. And you know best buy has almost no working phones. The rub is all three of those stores sold out. Best buy had one left at noon. And the sprint stores sold out before 1:30. So i think the early inventory was an issue. I just don't think it's the only issue.
agreed. Same here.
I got my Pre on release day.. Number 2 out of 20 or so people waiting at the Sprint store. I was excited for the Pre because of WEBOS. The hardware was mediocre at lease. I still fail to understanding the marketing behind the PRE.. especially at a time when people are going gaga over a locked down large screen software keyboarded phone put out by a communistic company. If Palm had put a WEBOS device which was a large screen software keyboarded phone, which was open for all to create for, then they would have scored big time! I will have an EVO on release day, which has a large screen software keyboarded open phone. Will I miss WEBOS? OH YAH! But, I am more excited then I was a year ago at this time... Even bought a Hero just to get a small taste of whats to come! I certainly hope the HP is more forward thinking with regards to hardware then Palm was...heck.. why can't my next phone (after the EVO) be an EVO style phone with WEBOS?
I worked an AT&T Store at IPhone initial launch. This was in Albuquerque, NM, not your thriving metropolis... and each of the 7 stores had 50 IPhones for Saturday launch, with 50 more phones for each store in a warehouse to be delivered on Monday. This was to create demand and fill demand. Each store manager was pissed that they only had 50 + 50 phones for inventory, as the APPLE store around the corner from the store I was working had 300 phones on Day 1 and another 300 for day 3 delivery.
So why did Sprint and Palm plan for a few phones per store and few phones for resellers?? Did they not think it would be a good seller, or was it an early to market device with known problems in HW and missing lots of features in SW and little to no APPS... Will we ever know? the answer filed in the same place as Who Killed JFK....
I think Sprint did the best they could with a bum deal. Obviously, Palm didn't coordinate their advertising like Motorola/Google/Verizon did with Droid, so there were just a bunch of muddled messages and print ads for the Palm Pre. Never good for a new commodity.
Palm also gave them insufficient inventory, as Sprint sold out quickly initially when they needed extra stock most.
Palm also gave them WebOS devices with insufficient memory, hence every other carrier getting 512MB of RAM. So Sprint users are stuck with memory errors and other issues.
Palm also gave Sprint the worst built out of any of the WebOS handsets.
Despite all of that, Sprint sold way more devices than Verizon who got lots of stock of much better devices with way more capabilities than launch Pre phones had AND a mobile hotspot app. All of that, despite having less than half the postpaid subscribers that Verizon does.
So why should Sprint be blamed again?
Sprint can be blamed for their disturbingly abysmal cell service and customer service between the years of about 2001 - 2007. It's hard to shake a reputation for dropped calls, no service, billing errors, and surly CSRs.
Don't get me wrong, I've had a great Sprint experience between June '09 and now, but they sure earned their awful reputation.
You are right on the money.
Palm should release their future devices on all carriers in all markets semi-simultaneously from now on.
Then be ready to increase promotion budgets by 10X's. The individual carriers will not spend a dime on ads if there is a chance their dime will send buyers to the competition for the same device. If Palm wants buzz, they'll have to fund it themselves and run the risk that the stores will bait/switch them to iphone, droid or N1.
I'm truly disappointed in myself but I'm highly considering the EVO; I've been a fanatic of WebOS but Palm is missing on a chance to keep customers at the moment, and with my Sprint Premier upgrade every year its tempting just to get something different and new.
I'll have to see if the usual hang-ups (lack of physical keyboard and great WebOS multitasking) end up keeping me from switching, but it would be great to get some info on something to look forward to from palm/HP so I don't have to switch OSes.
I like the pre...but is time to get the best hardware right now!!! HTC EVO 4G !!!
FYI, HP is notorious for big $$ acquisitions and then shutting down the costs to stay profitable. How's the 3COM acquisition going for ~2.7bn so far? . How about the LeftHand acquisition? My HP support for enterprise servers has gone off shore and the quality went down the tubes. Just because a big company comes in to save the day doesn't mean it will work in our favor as Palm fans. I hope it does well but it's not a given despite the large purchase...
I love my pre I have been with sprint for 10 years if they pull the pre off the shelves and when I need a replacement I will have to go to another carrier that has WEBos I have not had any problems with service in south florida.
All I can say is that no matter how badass the Evo is, I'm sticking with my Sprint Pre and never changing until a new WebOS device comes out. It's WebOS or nothing for me.
duplicate, sorry.
Ok... We learn from out mistakes Sprint, Palm whoever.. So what's ya next move??? You guys stop selling the Pre and Pixi @ Radioshack.. I was there this past Saturday and asked a manager about it he said that there was a new Palm coming out but of course didnt know the name of it.. Its about to be a year from the launch.. And if you guys are so aware of you're mistakes... Don't continue the damn trend by coming out with the Pre Plus and Pixe Plus on Sprint.. Cus that would just be f'ing DUMB!!!
I agree partially with the article, the lack of product availability and long wait periods in my area certainly has influenced my perspective on why the Pre was not nearly as successful as it should have been.
Here are the main reasons, I believe:
1) The main advertising the Pre got, was to be unveiled 6 months ahead of release, at CES. A place where ONLY propeller heads go, and to which ONLY propeller heads pay attention. Then there was some signage in the stores, some internet advertising and that's about it. Conversely, the iPhone was the subject of a massive, viral campaign (i.e., TV, radio, print, internet, you name it). Everyone heard about it almost daily, and wanted one before they even knew what it was. That is what the Pre, and every other "next big thing", needed to be successful, that's why the iPhone has not been unseated as the "IT" phone.
2) Supply was ridiculously low, and woefully mismanages. Stores with a history of selling more expensive smart phones received 2 at a time, and stores where people tend towards the free flip phone, got 20. Opening day, one store I went to had received 100 and I got one of the last 4. Also, it wasn't a few weeks until they were ramped up, it was MONTHS. So, you could rarely just walk in and get a phone, and, early on, if you needed a replacement, it could be a week or so before it came in.
3) Inconsistent product education. Many Sprint employees really didn't know anything about the Pre and those that did, or thought they did, had often already had one and gotten rid of it.
4) Not quite ready for prime time... To be a player, the Pre needed to hit the ground running at full iPhone GS level: Minimal bugs, solid hardware, working video camera, and tens of thousands of apps in the app store. Realistic or no, Palm needed to have been forging relationships with software developers behind the scenes, selling them on the value of WebOS, so they would be willing and able to have a fully stocked library in time for release.
And, the hardware really needed to be more solid. This isn't the first slider phone ever. There have been MANY. So, why am I on Pre number 8?
I love the Pre, and plan to stick by it for as long as Sprint will keep giving me replacements when they die. But I really think it's going to take a huge infusion of life from HP, from HP quality hardware, to massive advertising, to keep the Pre (or its successor) alive. Assuming they are not just in it to harvest the WebOS for tablets and other platforms.
"didn't work out as well as we'd hoped?" **
**translation: we did little more than order a bunch of phones when they first came out, shoved them in our store's display cases and then sat around to see what would happen...
gee, well let's see... i see pre+ showing up on most other carriers, as well as price drops, free touchstone bundles, other perks... maybe if sprint put some skin in the game they'd get better results.
Come on, now...don't be silly. Sprint spent a lot of money to advertise the Pre, and trained their reps better than any US carrier to date. They made an EVENT (at least at the corporate stores did) out of launch day, and publicized the phone afterward. They had bundles with accessories, and gave 20 percent discounts on top of that. That's all they could do.
I think their pricing - NOW - on the Pre is bonkers, but if they can keep selling them for $150, why should they drop it? They are much less able to take the loss than Verizon is, who can blow them out at fire sale prices on a dime, and in fact...they sell more WebOS devices than anyone else STILL.
Well maybe it was because the pre sucked epically, hardware wise. Basically people got turned turned off from the pre. That and there weren't any apps worth anybody's time. Unless HPalm comes out with something amazing I am probably going to ditch the pre soon. I have grown to hate it with its laggy performance, no lack of apps, TINY dimensions, and the fact that my 5th pre still has oreo twist.... I can see why palm got destroyed by the competition.
I know im going to get flamed, but dont get pissed off because i am hust saying what people are thinking
As a Sprint retailer I can attest that we did have huge shortages at launch, it took 6+ weeks to work thorugh all the waiting lists. Plus not all retailers even had them, Sprint Authorized Retailers (like me) didn't receive ANY shipments for almost 3 months, the supply was all going to Sprint corporate stores, Best Buy and Sprint Preferred Retailers, that means 1/3 of all Sprint stores didn't have ANY Pre's for the first few months. By the time my shipments starting coming in the Hero had just been launched and the last few diehard customers who were on my waiting list (loyal customers who only wanted to buy from me) started looking at other phones.
The cell phone guy at my local Radio Shack told me that Sprint is unhappy with Palm over the Pre launch and has basically cut ties with Palm, instead focusing on the 4G EVO. I didn't believe him, but was concerned since I am stuck on Sprint another year and will leave Sprint to stay with Palm in a minute, but the tone of this article kind of makes that more believable. I really hope Sprint is not stupid enough to cut off Palm, especially after the HP purchase, since I think a lot of Palm people will change carriers before changing phones.
The Pre didn't fare well because Sprint and Palm need to get their head out of their ass and make some awesome commercials (Im talking to you too Verizon) The creepy lade (Sprint) and phone for moms (Verizon) Might as well NOT sell the phone! Doesnt show the sweet potential of what people want in a phone. If you don't adevertise the content people wont know what the hell it is you're trying to sell. The Pre is NOT the iphone therefore people will NOT know what they're buying unless the companies selling the item tell the people what their selling.......woooo! that was a lot. I have the pre and I love it but I see it dying a slow death. So Im jumping ship to the EVO. adroidcentral.com for me in a few weeks!
Also, I think a lot of the clerks were pushing other devices at the time, in particular, Blackberrys. Aside from one particular clerk at the Sprint store I went to, there was a lot of apathy towards the Pre and when customers asked about the pre in the store, I did notice indifference in many customers toward the pre and a push towards Blackberry. I seemed to know more about the pre than the agents that were supposed to be selling them.
I'm pretty sure this happened elsewhere.