Sprint considers HP to be down, but not out, still not likely to carry Pre3 | webOS Nation
 
 

Sprint considers HP to be down, but not out, still not likely to carry Pre3 184

by Derek Kessler Wed, 20 Jul 2011 8:01 pm EDT

Looking for more depressing evidence about the likelihood of the HP Pre3 not coming to Sprint? Just the other day a slew of reporters were brought to Sprint’s headquarters where they had a round table with CEO Dan Hesse and product development chief Farid Adib. After mulling over the future of their unlimited plans and hinting that big 4G news would come this fall (LTE, anyone?), they were asked about the rumors that Sprint would in fact not be carrying the next flagship webOS phone (having taken a pass on the Pre Plus and Pre 2). Said Adib:

“HP ... has been a lifelong partner of Sprint. We still have open dialogs, and work together ... a lot of our OEMS have had ups and downs, but we never count any of them out.”

Ouch. It’s pretty clear what Adib is saying here: HP has devices they want Sprint to carry, but Sprint’s not totally interested. If the fortunes of webOS turn around, Sprint’s open. But either way, we wouldn’t expect to see a Sprint Pre3 anytime soon. And we know that's not going to make many of you happy.

 

Source: PCMag.com

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184 Comments

Blah!

Don't care, done with Sprint. When Pre3 hits AT&T I'm porting all nine business numbers over and all four family numbers. I've done the math and with the discounts I am elligible for my costs won't be much more.

Sprint is acting like a guy who got jilted by a certain girl with brunette hair and won't ever look at another brunette again because of it.

Sprint: HP IS NOT PALM, THEY ARE LARGE AND WELL CAPITALIZED - THIS IS ONE BRUNETTE YOU WANT TO GET INTO BED WITH IF YOU CAN, STUPID!!!

yeah but they are still making the same mistakes. hopefully they can turn things around quickly...........

Actually, YOU are acting like the guy who got jilted!! Pastures are not always greener on the other side of the fence!

It is like being the children of a bad divorce between Sprint and Palm. We have to choose a side, Carrier or OS. We were once loved by both but not sure now if either parent cares. Maybe I need to emancipate myself and find new smartphone parents.

I finally quit waiting for the super OFFICIAL THIS IS IT WE REALLY AREN'T CARRYING THE PRE3 announcement. My pre had no volume rocker and the headphone jack sensor was acting up (as it had on my 3 previous pres). I'm not leaving Sprint with 5 phones on our family plan all with different contract dates.

Tried the Arrive but windows phone 7 is not ready for prime time just yet. I like the os. Very different. When the os update hits this fall, if Sprint has some new WP7 hardware, I'd encourage people to give it a try.

I used to think the evo was way too big, but it's so thin, that it actually feels very comfortable in the pocket. Still a little cumbersome to hold, but I am now a very happy evo 3d owner. The notifications and the touchstone are probably the two things I miss, but the hardware blows the pants off the pre (which I had been running at 1 GHz for a long time).

If HP does get their act together and devices do come back to Sprint I will consider them. But not for another 22 months...

How can they give the OFFICIAL THIS IS IT WE REALLY AREN'T CARRYING THE PRE3 announcement when the phone hasn't even been released on ANY carrier in the U.S.?

Have you heard any OFFICIAL THIS IS IT WE **ARE** CARRYING THE PRE3 announcements yet?

I'm in the same boat as turt here. My wife and I traded in our launch day Pre's and got Evo 3Ds after the last announcement here that Sprint wouldn't be carrying the Pre3. I miss the cards ( found Perfect Task Switcher), the launcher wave (found Wave Launcher) and the touchstones (no substitute!)...especially in the car but I'll be back if Sprint and HP start dating again. I still wish good things for HPalm.

I'll have to try that Perfect Task Switcher. I love the Wave Launcher. It reminded me of the Pre so much. I still miss the multitasking but with the upgrade in hardware, I don't miss it that much.

I finally quit waiting for the super OFFICIAL THIS IS IT WE REALLY AREN'T CARRYING THE PRE3 announcement. My pre had no volume rocker and the headphone jack sensor was acting up (as it had on my 3 previous pres). I'm not leaving Sprint with 5 phones on our family plan all with different contract dates.

Tried the Arrive but windows phone 7 is not ready for prime time just yet. I like the os. Very different. When the os update hits this fall, if Sprint has some new WP7 hardware, I'd encourage people to give it a try.

I used to think the evo was way too big, but it's so thin, that it actually feels very comfortable in the pocket. Still a little cumbersome to hold, but I am now a very happy evo 3d owner. The notifications and the touchstone are probably the two things I miss, but the hardware blows the pants off the pre (which I had been running at 1 GHz for a long time).

If HP does get their act together and devices do come back to Sprint I will consider them. But not for another 22 months...

As soon as the last "strong rumor" hit, I caved and bought a Pre 2 on ebay... Couldn't be happier with my Sprint FrankenPre 2!! PC was spot on in their review, this phone is what the original Pre should have been!

same here...waiting on delivery of my Pre2....like i said before..you can't stop what can't be stopped...i'm a two timer...i love sprint and webOS and will be damned if i can't have both...

Did you do the Franken-surgery yourself, or did you send it off to the place that offers the service?

How hard was it to do the work yourself? I am tempted to go this route myself while waiting to see if any webOS devices ever return to Sprint.

I did it myself and honestly, it wasn't as hard as I was expecting. Only took about 15 minutes. I found this video quite good (aside from being grossed-out a little on the long fingernails): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q4BcyBt9Yw

The only problem I ran into was during the meta-doctoring, I had my phone hooked up through a USB hub and it kept failing. So that was my fault as it clearly says to hook it up directly to the computer.

I encourage you to give it a shot! I'm super happy I did.

Just did the same thing too. So far, so good.

Been with Sprint for almost ten years now, loved the concept of WebOS/Pre from day one. Jumped on board when HP offered the Pre for free, less than a year ago. Homebrewed my phone and love it even more... Having said that, I know I'm late to the party, but here's what I think... Up until Sprint offered the Pre/Pixi, most of the Smartphones that Sprint offered were basic and boring (in my opinion). They were falling behind the other carriers with their offerings. These Palm devices didn't do well because the weren't marketed properly, so they moved on to the new and upcoming thing, Android. Android has a multitude of manufacturers that can pump out a new device every other day it seems, and a lot of them are cutting-edge tech. That's what Sprint is looking for right now, cutting-edge tech. So far, all we really know about is the Pre 3, which isn't cutting-edge as far as the hardware goes. It's kind of run of the mill as phones go these days. Don't get me wrong, I love the form factor and would love to have one, but that's not what Sprint wants or needs right now. They are trying to be the innovative carrier right now, like AT&T was with the Iphone. HP hasn't shown that they are willing to go there, on the hardware side, at least not yet... Unfortunately, that sucks for all of us who want to upgrade soon to a new WebOS phone...

le sigh...

I don't expect Sprint to be any clearer that they won't carry the Pre 3. As an original Sprint Pre- owner, this isn't the news I wanted, but I can take a hint.

Being a little late to webOS by the time my contract is up maybe Sprint will be getting a 4G Pre4 ???

*I had to wait for a dumb phone contract to end on Verizon before moving to Sprint for the Pre, I have 16 months left on Sprint contract.

Big V.. here I come? :/

Damn you Sprint for making me switch when they get the Pre3 and you don't... I will miss my 25% employee discount.. but with Verizon I'll get 18% thru my work.. but still.. damn u sprint..

I think it's fairly obvious this is a business decision, currently the market simply isn't clamoring for webOS devices despite what ardent fans that post on this site think. I find this is a fairly telling indication they're getting an iphone later this year as many have rumored, and because of that they feel they're in a pretty strong position with regular consumers.

Yep, people seem to forget Sprint is a business trying to sell cell service. They will almost always bend towards the phones/platforms that will bring in the most customers.

Android activates more than 550,000 devices PER DAY! What's not to like?

4G, big processors, optimized CPU's, apps galore, bigger ram, bigger screens, solid hardware.

Vs. 3D, laggy, small, tiny battery, recently flash capable, and have spam bombed Sprints user pages across the net.

HP needed Sprint. Sprint needing HP, not so much.

Well the Pre3 has a big processor. I'm sure that HP would put a 4G radio in it, if Sprint wanted it.

Small is portable. the Pre3 has the same size screen as the iPhone - and I'm sure Sprint doesn't mind that.

Battery isn't that small. The 4G Evo with the big screen is only 1500 mAh - with the hardware of the Pre3 it should do much better.

I don't think there's been "spam bombed Sprint's user pages." Not sure what you are writing about. If you mean that there are people who are showing that there is demand, then it seems like a positive thing.

Sprint is already the distant third place carrier and with T-mobile and AT&T merging it won't even be close.

HP, with its other businesses, will be fine if it never sells another webOS device.

At the time they announced a single core 1.4, it seemed like a big deal. Six months later, not so big. But, please, learn from history. Time spent waiting on CPU is minimal. Time spent waiting on 3g vs a 4g radio is great. Performance hampered by carrying multitasking with only a 1/2 gig of RAM while leaner mean o/s's run on a full GIG of RAM.. no contest. A sloppy GPU implementation...WebOS suffers. It's these elements that combine to make droids F1 racers and WebOS an elegent but laggy classic Jaguar.

Sprint doesn't care what size the screen is, as long as it doesn't spend any time in a warehouse or on a tech table getting repaired or replaced, again.

Current Evo line products come with 1730mAH.

Sure, HP never played dirty pool and started campaigns to harass Sprint in public forums. They never set up hyper links and created FB pages dictating this. And they never promised Flash and 2.0 for legacy devices. And OJ didn't do it.

Sprint is the minor player, but on merger, I'm sure they'll see a lot of the TMO's as they come off contract.

Everybody like to believe HP is a powerhouse. They are profit poor, and the industry(ies) have been passing them by for several years. 1.2billion dollars was a lot of money to spend if they never sell another WebOS device. And they just did a debt issue, I'm sure break-even on the M&A is considered failure with bonds issued. They gotta start selling phones/tablets or convince PC buyers to accept new PCs with WebOS and avoid paying MS for windows licenses.

This isn't going well. The financial math sucks as badly as when Palm was preparing to drop the Pre. Elevation's goal was to make WebOS a strong enough brand, that someone would buy it with hopes of leveraging it into something even greater. HP's lever, looks like a wilted celery stick so far.

Hmm, let's see, the biggest carriers are all on board with WebOS and HP yet the smallest carrier - the one in need of help right now - is not.

Sprint continues to make bad decisions - further hastening their downfall and/or purchase while the other carriers reap the benefits of WebOS.

That's just simple math and Sprint is failing at something the other carriers clearly get.

well said....if i was a pimp i would like to have all makes to sell...even the ones that don't sell as much...

"Sprint continues to make bad decisions - further hastening their downfall and/or purchase while the other carriers reap the benefits of WebOS."

Benefits? What benefits? The sales numbers were horrible for the pre and the pixi, and the build quality, especially with the pre-, and the Verizon pre+ keyboard, was even worse. AT&T and Verizon are much larger than Sprint and can afford to take a risk on the Pre3. If it bombs, they aren't really out too much. Sprint, on the other hand, has to be extremely careful in its decisions on hardware. They can't afford another flop, and with Android they have a proven commodity. Compare the Evo to the Pre and tell me which path you would go down with future devices.

I'm as pissed as anyone that Sprint won't be carrying the Pre3. I've had my unlocked FrankenPre2 since the hack was made possible, and I love the phone. But it still lags. It still gets caught randomly at 300MHz. Don't get me wrong, it is an awesome little phone, and as it's the best way to experience webOS on Sprint, my wife and I will be using them for some time. But webOS still has to be polished, and you can't blame Sprint for waiting on HP devices.

Six of my ten lines were using the pre. Now, just two are. The problem? No apps and **** hardware forced them away. Android has what people are looking for, and I don't fault Sprint for their decision. Even if it isn't what I want.

Dude I agree... I switched to the evo line evo 4g and now evo 3d and I cant blame sprint for jumping ship.. Hp/Palm has had a long time to come out with some killer hardware and think outside of the box but they keep coming up with the same old **** . They need to just license out webos.. Then they take forever to release the pre 3. It will be old news by the time it comes out... Android already has dual core 1.2 ghz devices. Web Os is being killed by Palm/Hp

Dude, really? Sprint is failing and other carriers are reaping the benefit of webOS? It is a business buddy and Sprint got burned by webOS big time, the Pre was one of the worst launched phone in Sprint history when it come to return/repair/replacement rates. If I was a Sprint executive I would make the same decision even though I love webOS. It is business after all.

@jdcats

How many Pre buyers, went iPhone?

How many Evo buyers, went iPhone?

Pre buyers churned, Evo buyers returned.

glad I already made the jump to AT&T earlier this month. Saw the writing on the wall pretty clearly.

c'est la vie sprint

AT&T's motto should be "We give you less for more $"
I am not leaving Sprint unless Verizon drops their prices to match Sprint's

Oh well. I'm gonna stay with Sprint but move to Android. Sorry to leave WebOS but this is really not working for me.

In other news, the sky is blue.

I gave up on Sprint and WebOS a long time ago. Once my EVO gets at least 1 year into contract, I am going to be looking at either AT&T or Verizon....unless miracles of miracles happens.

Need a phone to go with my TouchPad.

I'm not regretting getting in on Virgin Mobile's $25 unlimited plans yet. Guess I will be picking up a Motorola Triumph.

I love webOS, but saving $50 a month is going to go a long way towards Touchpad 2 or Opal tablet.

Good think I've been working on getting used to the idea of going Android cause I'll be staying with Sprint as much as I love WebOS.

Ditto, picked up a cheap droid tablet as a media player and training ground for their phones, ready to sign the contract for the Evo 3D as soon as I know the final specs on the G2. HP didn't make things right, but I will.

It's not the act of losing a customer that really hurts, it's the process of handing them gently to your competition. Net loss, two spots.

Off to AT&T (with 4 phone lines) by year's end.

Sprint expects to gain market share with raising prices to near parity with the big 2 and offering fewer choices (no webOS, no iOS)? That's not a strategy bound for success.

That sucks for your 4 lines.

Well if webOS is not selling what do you expect them to do. They are a business! Can we say killer slate phone Hp, Or perhaps a different slider.... The pre design is already stale.. LET IT GO!

I switch between an Epic and an EVO. WebOS who?

Which begs the question why you are even reading this site. I've never felt the urge to troll an Android or iOS site and can't for the life of me understand why anyone would.

I just read an article on one of NASA's space missions (and have an opinion about it) though I'm not an astronaut nor do I own a space shuttle.

How trollish of me.

/smh

taharka, the difference is that I bet you haven't gone onto NASA's site and posted your opinion all over the place. Your opinion is valid of course, that is until you try to inflict it upon the good people at NASA who are actually involved in the space missions.

Are you sure I haven't posted on those articles I've read? And no post here by anyone "inflicts" anything on anyone else. They are simply opinions in the comments section of an article. Neither diehard fans nor diehard opposers will be swayed by them.

Let me know how much you are willing to bet. I'm always up for easy money.

Taharka, are you the customer of a rival space program and talking about how their space ships are better?

Yeah. You've nailed it. /smh

How about used to be a customer of the U.S. space program and loved it. But the U.S. government ran it into the ground and decided to move to be a customer of a rival space program because they were investing in their technology, hitting their promised dates, taking care of their customers. They may not be better than the U.S. space program, just different. We long to be back to being a customer of the U.S. space program but all we see is further downward spirals. Therefore there is nothing wrong with making ones opinions known about the U.S. space program because that is where we would really like to be. But with the U.S. space program having no manned spaced program it is really pretty difficult.

you totally went to space camp didn't you? like in the movie lol.

Feel free to inject a different industry if you'd like. The point still stands. People will continue to read and comment. Some comments you'll like, some you won't.

oh i was just joking. i saw the cnn anchor Brooke Baldwin do a special on space camp and she said she actually went there as a kid. the space talk just reminded me of that.

sweet greggo, it's a jumbo jet crashing into 200 tanker car freight train. Can you really expect people to look way?

(Arrogant giant crashing into an uninspired market place) Good seats are still available. HP's top beta testers deserve to see every cringing detail after being on the freight train for two years. Is this news to you?

Just because you can't look away still doesn't #makeitright

11 yrs with Sprint,I love my phone and not interested in changing out,Please Sprint get the Pre 3 or Im going to find it else where!!!

I've been pretty sure I'd be switching to AT&T for months now, now it's certain. Just a question of whether it'll be a Veer or Pre3 and that's dependent on how long this original Pre will hold up.

Sprint is acting immature over this whole ordeal. You can't tell me they don't have other phones that have done worse than webOS phones. I've been with them for more than a decade but I'll be damned if I let a carrier dictate what phone I use.

I'll be moving to AT&T most likely.

Not many devices have received the same size investment and resulted in the same sized failure as the Pre. Why are people so shocked about Sprint taking a pass on this?

It's the middle of 2011 and HP doesn't even have a release date for their latest 3G phone. They just released a plastic tablet computer as incomplete as the Pre was two years ago. Fool me once...

I've been at ATT, no real world gain to go with the premium premium price price (Note, GSM echo is still free on ATT!).By the end of a Pre 3 contract, droid will probably be equal or better on UI. Enjoy the ride.

I'm shocked because this isn't Palm anymore, it's HP, and they are big, really big.

And when webOS gets as big as they are, carriers will probably pay attention again. Microsoft is big, really big, yet the Kin failed.

Oh, and "That's what she said."

The Kin had drastically reduced functionality and required a full price data plan.

The Kin and webOS are completely unrelated.

Never said they were related. My comment was about the suggestion that Sprint should go with HP simply because they are "big, really big". Did you really not see that?

They are not... Sprint is making moves from a business standpoint.. Im sure they like webOS like I do but with the same terrible hardware coming out with HP doing nothing to change it I understand where they are coming from.. Imagine the people that had a horrible time with hardware from the first pre, then they come see the pre 3 which pretty much looks the same.. They are going to walk right past it because even though they like the software they are gonna say it looks like the same piece of **** i have which the charger port is broke on, has slider wiggle, and cracks coming from my usb port.. Think ill pass.. I bet if hp came out with some exciting new hardware sprint would carry it!

You my friend, are one of a very few people on this site that gets it!

Seriously, will someone (hp or sprint) just come clean already??? I wish they would just stop dancing around the issue and say sprint will not be carrying webos anytime soon. What's the point of letting these stupid "a rep told me..." rumors circulate?? Seriously...sprint and hp, you both suck at communications!

Look at the history. Sprint has passed on *every* webOS device since the original Pre and Pixi. While this does not eliminate all doubt about the Pre 3, it does indicate a very low probability. How much clarity does one need?

They just bonked them on the head with a wooden mallet and said "Go away", and still, they ask the question...

As mentioned time and again, if HP wanted it on Sprint, it'd be there.

Either that or HP isn't willing to make Sprint a sweetheart (enough) of a deal to make them say yes. Considering what Sprint went through, they kind of deserve it.

C'mon HP open up the checkbook, make it happen. Make things right.. Having the third place carrier refuse to carry your products (which is what everyone will say or is saying) isn't embarrassing to you?

You seem to not comprehend the power that the US consumer has given to the cellular carriers. HP has no bargaining power of Sprint at all.

-- Rod

I don't believe that to be the case. HP is one of the top tech companies in the world. No bargaining power? HP just agreed to resell Sprint service back in may. http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/09/hp-launches-datapass-to-sell-prepaid-... This is just one of several HP/Sprint initiatives.

Bottom line, we still do not know who is doing what or who wants what in this case. Is HP happy with just V and AT&T? Did V stipulate it wants to be the lone cdma provider? Perhaps HP just isn't interested in wimax and thinks more globally ala Apple and wants to scale quickly via hspa+ & 3G cdma? Or the popular reason, Sprint wants nothing to do with webOS?

I don't think we'll get a straight answer. HP would definitely need a wimax phone to have a chance on Sprint. Perhaps they consider that (wimax) a waste of time when LTE is the future and 3G isn't enough for where HP would want to position themselves on Sprint.

I have to agree with Cardfan, there's got to be a price where Sprint has to agree to carry the device because it makes financial sense.

Microsoft lost money on the Xbox for years to catch up to the Playstation. At some point, it makes sense for HP to do the same if necessary.

What you and other people are forgetting is: Ready? HP DID NOT BUY PALM TO DOMINATE THE CELL PHONE INDUSTRY, got it? That's why they introduced the TP first, their bread and butter will always be pads when it comes to webOS.

Here, I said it!

Thanks Mr. Obvious.

You're in denial.

Considering how HP treated WebOS customers, I can see them bringing a buffet lunch to Sprint headquarters for a meet and greet, then sending them the bill for the food.

"But if you carry our phone, we'll pick up half the caterer's tip".

PreDogs has been on fire since he saw the light.

Then try bringing the Pre 3 in the Philippines. We've been waiting for WebOS device here for long years. We can be a help on boosting WebOS popularity. :)

Good Sprint...im tired of those little screens and lack of mainstream apps. Get ya game up HP/Palm. Glad I switch a year ago. I like WebOS but but I don't love it that much to pay more for a new carrier

My hope is that there will be a new webOS Envy phone for x mass. Doubt it, but I would not still be reading this site if I was not drunk off of hope and unrealized dreams.

It would be too late anyway. We'll all be on an Android phone. It's just not worth paying so much more to switch to verizon or AT&T just to have webos.

I'm ready for a straight answer.

We are left with three options.

Option 1 switch carriers and pay more monthly.

Option 2 switch to Android and reinvest in all the apps purchased and grind through the unintuitive UI.

Option 3 which is what I am going with is stick with the Pre- until a new webOS phone shows up on Sprint and hangup on all the Sprint reps that try to talk you into switching to Android.

That will send Sprint a clear message that we won't invest in a phone that you think is good for us and will keep our options open for switching carriers if we feel like it.

Seriously, mita? You are going to send a message to sprint by continuing to spend your money with them, no matter what? What possible message could sprint read out of that, and what possible motivation do they have to change?

I am not going to spend more money just because I can't get the phone I want. I will just stick with my Pre since it is still functional. Sprint or any other company out there doesn't like to have their customers on month to month basis. They want to have long term commitment because long term commitments bring stability and something they can count on.

If people like me refuse to sign up for contracts they would have to bring in a product that would entice us to sign up for contracts. It's a long shot but hey it's better than buying into an Android that I would just keep hating until I get my hands on a new webOS device.

I will actually consider doing that to a Pre3 if they come up with a solution for it.

This has been said a million times before, but this method will not work for the Pre3 due to chassis differences.

Still, the Pre 2 is a fantastic device. I've got mine sprintified and am totally happy to stick with it--probably for a long time, unless my new-tech lust takes over after the 3 drops :)

That is a good option - the Pre2 is a solid device and converting to Sprint is so easy a caveman could do it. If you're wary of that, then check out and use the Sprintify service from webosworld.

That won't send any messages to Sprint. Sprint doesn't care what phone you use. They care that you use their cellular service. When they call to offer you an Android, it's not Android that they are selling. They simply want you to re-up your contract.

The message is that I am not going to buy a phone and renew my contract until you bring the phone that I want.

But if you are still paying your monthly bill, will your "message" mean anything? Doesn't it cost the same monthly regardless of your contract status?

the problem is there are 40 people that will take an android phone instead for every one of you if not more people.

Webos market share is at what, just over 2.5 million phones or something. if we possibly incorrectly assume it's all in the u.s., much of that is probably on on verizon and at&t anyways. But even if half is on sprint. 1.25 million people? Look at that poll in the forums that asks if sprint doesn't get the pre 3 will yo leave. It's like more then 50% saying they won't leave. So now you're 1.25 is cut in half. So just over 600k subscribers.

Sprint couldn't give a rats a-hole about risking losing 600k subscribers on a risky platform.

Especially if they get an iphone 5 like the rumors and go lte. They'll make that up in a new subscribers in a month if they sold an iphone with unlimited data in septemeber or october. Especially going into the xmas season.

truth is there just are not enough people that think like you to scare sprint.

This.

I dont think that will work.. Reason being is there is simply not enough webOS diehard fans to sway sprint.. If there were that many the original pre would have sold enough to have them carry the pre 3... With all the android activations they will stick with whats selling.. I mean look at the Galexy S II... It blows Pre hardware out the water! WebOS' software is nice but it can only take it so far.

Hey Sprint, say goodbye to another longtime premier user here. As soon as the Pre3 comes out on ATT I will be moving my family plan. Cya!

Signed,

Your loss...

That's what I'll be doing, and I think it will send a message loud and clear.

Ive been with Sprint since 1998.

13 Years.

Adios Yellow.

Hello RED!

Good luck with those tiered data plans!

That's it!
I'm done.....!
Bye HP! It's been great, but I cant be stagnant any longer.

At least wait until the Samsung Galaxy S II. Which will be the best Android option on Sprint. It's an unfortunate situation, very unfortunate. :(

This evening my wife traded in her Pixi on an Epic 4G. She's staying with Sprint.

I don't know why someone minused my post. This is the reality for webOS right now. Faced with the choice of carrier v. OS, people who want or need a new device have to decide which they value more. In this case, retaining Sprint as her carrier was more important than sticking with webOS.

I must say that while the Epic is way larger than her Pixi, it is fast and she's adjusting to it well. The modern basics - email, Facebook, WiFi - were a snap for her to set up.

I recently called into Sprint to check on the status of my contract and inquire about the availability of the Pre3, Pre2, or Veer. To their "Was your Sprint issue resolved?" email I replied with a short "inquiry in writing" asking about the Pre2, Pre3, or Veer while pointing out that I may have to make the hard choice to move to a new carrier soon.

To which they left me a voice mail which did little to assure me that they were listening. And so I sent them this reply moments ago...

Thank you for your initial phone call reply about my desire for you to offer the Pre3 so I can get one or two as my next phone(s)... but...

I have spoken to a number of HP and Sprint personnel who echo your unlikelihood of offering the Pre3. Some have mentioned that some other "HP Device" perhaps in "another form factor" may be coming to Sprint in the future. Another person hinted that perhaps Sprint would carry the iPhone some time this or next year. And I recently ran across this article, and have read many other similar ones which point to you perhaps not offering the Pre3 while not outright rejecting the device:
http://www.precentral.net/sprint-considers-hp-be-down-not-out-still-not-...

I would like to make it perfectly clear to you that I am not particularly interested in "some other HP Device" in "another form factor" coming to your network "some time in the future". I am also not at all interested in the latest iPhone no mater how popular it may be or how much your reps may like that device. I specifically want the Pre3 with it's vertical keyboard slider form factor and webOS environment. I do not want a slab device nor a 3d camera and i am not particularly concerned if it has a 4G WiMax radio or not, your 3G serves me just fine. I simply want to replace my ageing launch day Pre, which replaced my rock solid Centro, with the latest device in that family line of devices, namely the HP Pre3! No substitution short of the Pre2 or Veer will suffice, and I would be making a severe compromise settling for either of those devices. Quite honestly I would prefer to re activate my old Centro rather than use any other device that you currently offer.

My contract with Sprint is up in a month or so and I would really like to stick with you as my carrier as you have been very good in my opinion thus far. But frankly by not offering the single device in the evolution of devices I have been using for so many years while assuring me that "something else" might suit my needs is rather insulting.

Great letter, echoes my feelings exactly.... Too bad it has so many words and will probably never get read (retards don't like to read very much).... I know that was childish but man it felt good!

It sure is insulting when you ask them about when you bring a replacement for my current phone and they try to talk you into an Android.

When HP starts making some significant gains in the smartphone and tablet market Sprint will carry their products again. Easy peasy.

I doubt it as iphone has a significant market share and Sprint is only stuck on Android.

Isn't that more because Apple is only just now pushing beyond AT&T (starting with Verizon) in the US though?

Bingo. As soon as Apple offers it to Sprint they will take it.

It's pretty clear they have no interest in webOS right now. :( What doesn't make complete sense to me is why they wouldn't carry an HP device as the 3rd place carrier with a pretty vocal base?

My guess is that

The base is not as large (relatively speaking) as many here wants to believe

OR

They've seen enough of a trend that indicates they won't lose as many customers as many here wants to believe

OR

They are brining in enough customers with other devices/platforms to offset any loses caused by not carrying a webOS device right now

OR

All (or some mixture) of the above

Do you believe Sprint is doing that well that they can write off the loss of customers (even though it is probably a small loss) and or upset any customer coming off of years of being the worst in customer service. You may be right but the calculus in that is risky. Is the cost for supporting an HP device (which will be on the larger two carriers btw) so high that this loss in customers and good will is worth it? The answer is obviously yes but it's hard for me to believe.

I honestly don't think *any* customer loss is a good thing. But it's inevitable across the board. The thing is they were losing customers even while they had an exclusive with the Pre AND the Pre was a nightmare for them (or as one store manager told me "The Pre was just bad for business.").

Personally (and I have no proof of this) it seems to me that Sprint is not passing on HP per se, they are passing on webOS (for now).

The cost for supporting a device is very high if you're not getting good ROI. There's lots of money that has be be spent just to offer a device with proper support. If that device does not bring in (and hold) enough subscribers, it will be hard to continue offering it. Things get worse if that device generates lots of support issues, which are expensive.

They believed it was worth it to give webOS a solid shot back in '09 with the Pre and then later the Pixi. They lost that bet.

Is the risk of not supporting webOS right now worth it? I believe that *they* believe it is. My guess (again, no proof) is that *most* Sprint Pre users have already switched platforms and/or carriers.

What do you mean they lost that bet? Palm had nothing at the time but a hope and prayer (and a promising webOS). Sprint had nothing coming off an embarrassing dumbphone push of the Samsung Instink. These two were made for each other.

The Pre set a record for Sprint launch at the time. Sprint could have made that deal better..6 months was too short. Sprint could have insisted on a slab but didn't. They made the choice of no wifi for the Pixi.

Of course, we know how things went although Sprint had a silver lining in the Hero and another samsung phone they had. Instead of fighting to make things better, Palm started expanding carriers and basically left things alone at Sprint.

The rest of your response deals with costs. HP is huge. They can mitigate these concerns. They aren't valid.

I think it makes more sense to look at Sprint instead of HP. Would you target Sprint if you were HP? Sprint looks the mess. A unique 4G network that you have to concentrate development on. You can't exactly launch this wimax phone globally on several networks. It's temporary. Sprint has indicated they're going LTE shortly.

Is there a reason why Sprint doesn't have the iphone yet or an HP webOS device? I'd say neither want to fool with wimax. Although Apple could get away with 3G only and is rumored to be doing exactly that later. HP couldn't.

My statement had nothing to do with Palm actually. When I said they lost that bet, I'm speaking about the bet that webOS would bring in AND HOLD new customers. This did not happen. Instead, they got rounds and rounds of complaints and support calls and demands for device replacements, etc. Again, store manager's words "The Pre was just bad for business." Listen to what the top Sprint people have said about it. Things did not go as planned.

Not sure how you can suggest that the costs involved with offering a device vs the potential income from the cell service they are selling is not valid.

On the Sprint iPhone thing, hasn't it not been carried because it hasn't been available to Sprint? I mean, it JUST opened up to a second US carrier didn't it?

I'd imagine those customers signed two year contracts with Sprint. Most probably stayed. Some still with webOS, some switched.

Sprint tested these phones. They knew the hardware and what they were getting. I still think things could have gone better had both made better decisions and formed a more longterm exclusive.

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Sprint tested these phones. They knew the hardware and what they were getting.
*****
In other words, they took a gamble (knowing the odds) and lost.

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I still think things could have gone better had both made better decisions and formed a more longterm exclusive.
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Indeed. One of the things that surprised me was when Palm did their deal with Verizon back in late '09, they seemed to not have put some sort of NDA (or at least enough of one) in there. Verizon was able to announce to the public "we're getting the Pre in January, no need to switch to Sprint" (not their exact words) and effectively kills what was left with the few remaining months of Sprint's exclusive.

As you've said, they (both parties) could have handled things better.

I agree with both points. It could have been handled better by both of them. It's unfortunate that consumers miss out on a good choice due to poor decisions.

AGAIN --- there's nothing that says there will be NO WebOS on Sprint . . . mere speculation and drama creating some buzz. I suspect Sprint and HP are glad the buzz is happening --- there will be webOS on Sprint again, maybe just not this product cycle ~

To quote the movie Billy Madison: "It's **** Again"

I need me some new Sprint webOS

I know many love the portrait slider as I do, but I have grown fond of the virtual keyboard. I believe we will see a return to Sprint once a slab is introduced. A successful slab will open the door to them accepting new sliders from HP. I'm stuck with Sprint and I miss WebOS. That slab can't get here soon enough!

My launch day pre - finally died and I could not do without WebOS. I jumped to vzw with a Pre2.

I just don't get it. Why wouldn't they carry the Pre3? I guess I don't understand this business. I don't see how it would cost them any money to carry the phone. They don't have to spend money to market it. They carry plenty of phones no one wants that they don't market.

Like you I don't want to switch, but I'm part of the 1% that will.

Signed,
Clueless

*****
I don't see how it would cost them any money to carry the phone.
*****

It costs actually. Think testing, training, support, marketing, subsidizing, storage, shelf space, etc.

All things HP could mitigate.

Where did I suggest they couldn't?

stavich said "I don't see how it would cost them any money to carry the phone."

I responded with examples of "how it would cost them any money to carry the phone."

What I've never understood is how this setup is the norm. It's good for neither handset manufacturers, nor carriers.

I should be able to buy my handset from *anywhere* and get it activated on the carrier of my choosing. Carriers should have two tiers of devices: the ones they subsidize and sell themselves, and the ones that are known to work on their network, but are supported and sold by 3rd parties, like HP. I don't get why all carriers don't just say, "Use whatever you want, just give us money."

Similarly, I don't get how the handset manufacturers will stand for 6 month (or in Apple's case, 2 years!) exclusivity deals that immediately cut off two thirds of the smartphone carrying population. By the time you're out of the exclusive deal, your handset is old hat, but it's extremely hard for any one company to push much more than a device a year.

First carrier to allow companies to sell their own phones for that network might gain an interesting edge. First manufacturer to have the clout to reject all exclusivity deals and make the carriers come to *them*... will probably not sell any phones, i guess.

But that first carrier would more likely have to be the largest of the big three, not Sprint, and the only manufacturer who *might* be able to make that threat work is Apple, definitely not HP.

We are heading that way, when all carriers implement LTE, we should get there one day.

It is not just about money, although it is. Let me explain, every time I was at the Sprint store after the Pre launch, there was at least one customer (Unhappy customer) returning or replacing their Pre. Customer satisfaction is not just about money, but it is. And that cannot be covered by the deep pockets of HP.

What I'd like to know is when the Pre³ will launch--especially an unlocked (North American) GSM one.

well this sucks... HTC EVO 3D here i come

Could someone explain what the cost would be to Sprint to pick up the Pre3? I can understand they would not want to take a flyer on another webOS device as their flagship at this point, but I don't understand how in a lineup that features phones like Kyocera Echo and the Samsung Replenish there is no room for the Pre3 as "just another option."

I openly plead ignorance when it comes to how carriers and manufacturers work these things out, but I'd be interested to know.

Think testing, training, support, marketing, subsidizing, storage, shelf space, etc.

yep. and i think they are buying the handsets upfront so if they don't sell they take the hit. Not to mention they are already subsidizing them. But yeah the training, commericals, promotion, the call support, the repair support.

I know everyone keeps saying it's a business decision, that the Palm relationship soured Sprint to webOS devices...

...but this is the same carrier that had a big press conference to announce the Kyocera Echo. Come on, really?! And they won't carry the Pre3?

No worries, it's their right not to carry it. Just as it's my right to take my line over to Verizon as soon as it gets announced, given that my contract is up with Sprint. After doing the math I'd only be paying $10 more for faster data and more reliable service...hmm.

All that and webOS too? Easy choice. So long Sprint, and thanks for all the fish.

that echo worked out well for them. and you want them to do that again?

honestly anyone with a brain could have told them the echo wouldn't go great.

The difference is, webOS has a vocal community - we just want more choices/hardware from HP. Even Palm/HP detractors agree that the OS on better hardware would kill.

Who the **** was even vaguely interested in the Echo?

being vocal is not important to sprint. Sprint wants a profitable community and there are not nearly enough profitable webos users.

And considering lack of responsiveness, lag issues, slow loading, lackluster things like a medioore camera app and some other things i don't think even better hardware would be a cure all. it's a good o.s. but it has flaws like all o.s.'s

In the end the consumer speaks; without consumers purchasing your products/services you have no business. The question is how to force the hand of a business to do what the consumer wants. (morally & ethically .. I'm not talking about showing up at Hesse & others homes with bullhorns (were not SEIU)It sucks because we are a small percentage of Sprints consumer base. Which means we don't have much pull. So how does a small albeit LOUD community make their voices heard? Its kinda like we're the opposite of Theodore Roosevelt's quote. How many Sprint Webos consumers will actually leave within the next 3 months to follow Pre 3 if another Webos phone is not announced on Sprint?

In the end the consumer speaks; without consumers purchasing your products/services you have no business. The question is how to force the hand of a business to do what the consumer wants. (morally & ethically .. I'm not talking about showing up at Hesse & others homes with bullhorns (were not SEIU)It sucks because we are a small percentage of Sprints consumer base. Which means we don't have much pull. So how does a small albeit LOUD community make their voices heard? Its kinda like we're the opposite of Theodore Roosevelt's quote. How many Sprint Webos consumers will actually leave within the next 3 months to follow Pre 3 if another Webos phone is not announced on Sprint?

I'll be looking to change to AT&T once the Pre3 lands. Sad - I switched from them to Sprint for the original Pre.

I switched from AT&T to Sprint for the original pre also. Sprint's monthly plans have spoiled me though. I used to pay AT&T $80 a month for 450 minutes and 200 text messages.
I pay Sprint $60 a month (Thanks AOL Discount) for unlimited everything, expect 450 minutes to land lines only between 7am and 7pm.
Sprint customer service has been awesome to me.
AT&T customer service were douche bags

I guess the time has come to un-frankenPre my unlocked GSM Pre2 from Sprint back to GSM-land and jump into AT&T without a contract and just wait till the Pre3 arrives. I mean how much easier can this be, since I did the comm board swap one into Sprint already. No more having to hack PRL updates, yay!

Again with these articles and the comments that are pure comedy.

If Sprint is letting you down and mistreating poor little ole' WebOS, then you should absolutely jump to another US carrier who does carry the Pre 3.

And that would be....?

Yeah. Exactly.

Oh, but it's coming to Verizon and AT&T! Those two carriers that have crappily released the Pre 2 and Veer, respectively? Can't wait to see their sales reps try to to steer you away from a Pre 3 too. That is if they even carry sufficient stock. But those guys rock and Sprint sucks, right?

Let's be real. No one here cares how a carrier treats WebOS. They can **** all over it as much as they want as long as they sell it to you. You'll be happy to subsidize any amount of abuse to this platform. That's Sprint's only real sin: Not belatedly launching and slagging the phones, but having the nerve to refuse to sell it until they felt like they could fully support it.

Yep.

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...until they felt like they could fully support it.
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...until they felt like they could fully *profit from* it.

Since when did Sprint suddenly have the luxury of being picky about the phones they carry, especially with their lineup generally lacking and much fewer customers than their competition? You'd figure one of their big brains in the office would have been like "Hey guys, I just found out people like variety!"

They're doing themselves a disservice by not carrying anything but their huge HTC phones. Maybe Sprint will get absorbed someday.

As far as the Sprint faithful here who argue prices... you're saving like $10 a month to stick with a phone that's probably taped together. I would rather revert to a flip phone at that point.
You're here for WebOS, not Sprint. Get into the right camp if that statement is untrue.

Last I checked there were Androids, BBs, WP7 and a slew of other phones being offered at Sprint. Seems they have "variety". What you're saying is "they don't have webOS." There is a difference between that and suggesting that somehow they don't know that people like variety.

Ah yes, the slew of phones.

HTC EVO 4G
HTC EVO 3D
HTC EVO Shift 4G
HTC Arrive

A few Samsung Android smartphones round out a deep and diverse selection pool that will cater to any taste.

... so, aside from Blackberries (which all carriers have anyway), the only other OS I see is WP7 on one phone.

My point still stands. HTC is Sprint's game.

Maybe I'm missing something but Sprint's service plans aren't better any more. At ATT.com I priced a Veer with 450 min, 2 GB data, 1000 text messages (all more than I use on Sprint) and it was $75. I am currently at $70 for a Pre- and if I were to upgrade I would be at $80.

I also have been reading that GSM has better voice quality than CDMA and less battery draining in weak signal areas. I'm actually kind of tired of the voice time lags on CDMA.

I may be changing to ATT when the Pre 3 comes out.