Sprint to get Pre 3 after all? [rumor and speculation] | webOS Nation
 
 

Sprint to get Pre 3 after all? [rumor and speculation] 202

by Derek Kessler Thu, 12 May 2011 9:11 am EDT

There’s been some speculation that the “V” at the end of the FCC ID for the CDMA+GSM HP Pre 3 meant Verizon. We can’t say that with any amount of certainty, as the straight GSM Pre 3 ended with an “N,” which we really can’t connect to “GSM” or “AT&T” in any manner. So we’ll call the FCC ID a wash (for what it’s worth, with Palm FCC IDs there was never any indication of the carrier, just CDMA or GSM – the FCC doesn’t care about the carrier, all they care about is the phone’s brain boiling potential).

So if the Pre 3 world phone isn’t necessarily a lock for Verizon, what about Sprint? As Sprint VP of Product Development Fared Adib recently told BGR, the network has “a longstanding relationship with Palm / HP.” It’s an interesting line, as Adib deliberately injected it into an answer about Sprint’s relationship with BlackBerry-maker Research in Motion, as if he really wanted to assuage the fears of original Pre and Pixi owners coming up on their two-year renewal. But we can’t read into that too much, he’s just one VP and it was just on sentence.

Where things start to come together is when we include the dozens comments we’ve received from readers who have had discussions with Sprint customer support. Now, we’re always one to recommend copious amounts of salt when engaged in conversation with any cellular customer service reps – you, the reader, usually know more about what’s going on in the cellular news arena than the person on the other end of the phone line, chat window, or email tube. But we went back through our emails and noticed an interesting trend: unlike with the Pre Plus and Pre 2, where Sprint reps often dismissed any notion of the newer webOS devices coming to Sprint, the word from the other side of the conversation has been generally positive about the Pre 3’s chances on Sprint.

In February, via phone:

“We will have it April, May, or June. I probably shouldn’t have told you that, but we will have it sometime then.”

Same month, via email:

“We keep launching new handsets. Currently, Sprint announced these handsets with HP using their webOS® 2.0: Pre3, Veer, TouchPad tablet.”

In March, via email:

“Thank you for contacting Sprint. I appreciate your interest in the HP Palm Pre 3 handset. The HP Palm Pre 3 is scheduled to be launched. However, we do not have any specific date that when it is going to be launched. Once it is launched, it will be updated on the website.”

And just this week, via email:

“Thank you for contacting Sprint.  I understand that you are interested in buying the HP Pre3 handset. Unfortunately, as of now, this handset model is not on offer. We are in the final stages of launching this phone and hope to introduce it very soon.  Once it is launched, you will see promotional campaigns related to the launch date and the features of the handset on our Web site and other promotional media.”

Of course, a collection of emails, phone call recollections, and chat logs a confirmation does not make. But it’s notable, the almost uniform consistency we found in looking back at all of our Sprint Pre 3 tips and forum posts. There are some outliers, of course, with reps saying things like there are no plans for new webOS devices on Sprint any time in 2011.

But it was that most recent email that got our hearts pumping. “We are in the final stages of launching this phone and hope to introduce it very soon.” Is it possible the Pre 3 could be coming to Sprint? Absolutely. Just because it’s a world phone doesn’t mean it’s destined exclusively for Verizon; Sprint too has a long (but quiet) history of carrying CDMA+GSM world phones.

We’ve heard rumblings that Sprint was ‘waiting for the right phone’ to follow-up the original Pre. Sprint has an impressive stable of powerful and capable Android phones, and it’s a lineup something like the Pre Plus or Pre 2 simply wouldn’t have been able to stand up against. But the Pre 3 with it’s 3.7-inch screen, bigger keyboard, 1.4GHz processor, and Touch-to-Share integration with the TouchPad (which might also end up in Sprint stores, if their selling the Wi-Fi-only Motorola Xoom Android tablet is any indication)? It could stand a chance.

Sprint and HP know there are a lot of hungry webOS users on Sprint. They may not make up the majority of webOS users out there, now that the phone is available on multiple networks in the US, Canada, and several European countries, but they’re the original and arguably most loyal webOS fans. And really, without a webOS 2.x upgrade coming to Sprint Pre phones, the only way to really “make things right” is offer to have a new phone available for those old and loyal fans - a Sprint Pre 3 may very well be that phone.

Source: BGR; Thanks to all who sent in tips!

202 Comments

A glimmer of hope?

I have had discussions with a friend who works for Sprint. He was told by an HP rep that the wifi HP TP will be available this summer for Sprint but no news in their pipeline tegarding a handset. This is just through their summer lineup.

Take it for what it's worth. I have no reason to believe this is false.

Sounds about right. The handsets have mad baggage. The tablet does not. Seed the latter like crazy and hope (and advertise) for the best.

Soooo. Let me get this straight. Sprint will carry a device it plans to make no data plan money off of and THEN not carry the handset that would magically pair/sync to it, which is one of TouchPad's selling points.

Yep, sounds about right and no reason to believe it to be false.

That's funny. I think Sprint felt the pain with the original Pre and is very skeptical about phones with vertical sliders that comes from former Palm. I hope this article was written because Derek knows something we don't and just can't say it directly.

If Sprint does pass on the Pre 3 I hope they are planning on carrying "StingRay". No hardware keyboard to worry about there...

If its a "Wifi HP TP" why would it be destined for Sprint? Without a cellular radio, it should be in Best Buy (or the likes). I can see one being in Sprint *IF* they are planning to try and push a WiFi HP TP ALONG WITH a Pre3.

They're doing it with the Xoom- wifi tablet + Sprint mifi = more flexible 3G/4G internet.

maybe the wifi only TP tablet has something to do with the recent launch of hp data network piggybacking on sprint? even more of a reason to get excited? i think things r lining up nicely for original pre owners :)

That's funny. I think Sprint felt the pain with the original Pre and is very skeptical about phones with vertical sliders that comes from former Palm. I hope this article was written because Derek knows something we don't and just can't say it directly.

If Sprint does pass on the Pre 3 I hope they are planning on carrying "StingRay". No hardware keyboard to worry about there...

No, a thirsty man seeing the mirage he wants to see in the desert.

Was a glimmer until it died...

Ok honestly, where is the damn Masked Pre Guy? Or the team that went in and took out bin Laden? They seems to get stuff done, and maybe they can pull off another incredible feat here.

MASKED PRE GUY, WE NEED YOU!!!!

Oddly, no "us too" talk from Verizon to counter the Veer buzz. HP is too scattered for Sprint. Sprint might hop in if they see WebOS gaining traction at ATT or VZ. For now, they have a portfolio full of capable droids that satisfied most of our brethren. Wouldn't it be too funny if HP has NO TAKERS for the CDMA/World phone? That would be a very nice karma payment.

Uh...no offense, but how do you ignore the specific mention of "Verizon" in the test report associated with this device?

Click here, then click "Test Report"

Check pg. 21 (credit to emc350 on the forums)

Someone actually downranked me for linking to supplemental FCC documents? Wow...just...wow.

You know... Messengers and bad news... ;)

well...that could suck

Looks like that test was for Verizon, page 21 mentions VZ not Sprint.

Must be an extra slow news week for Palm related stuff P|C editors.

I love me some Verizon... I just hope they don't do an exclussive. HPalm really needs this phone on as many carriers as possible. I'm all for WebOS to explode. The Veer is 6 months exclusive so I hope and pray the Pre 3 will not fall in the same **** hole.

I'm hoping we see the Pre 3 end up on a bunch of regional carriers and not just on the national carriers.

I wouldn't say that's conclusive. There is no need to test the device on multiple carriers. It just so happened to be activated on Verizon in Nemo, TX if I'm reading that right. So what? Is there any doubt that Verizon is definitely getting the Pre3? Maybe the Outfit HP contracted to do the testing has an AT&T account and a Verizon account to activate devices on both GSM and CDMA networks. No need to test on Verizon and Sprint if its the same frequency and access method, right?

EUT stands for Equipment Under Test. The "equipment" in this case is a VERIZON DEVICE on an inductive dock with an AC Adapter. They refer to it as such on page 12 as well.

That's nice. However, the only difference between a Verizon device and a Sprint device for CDMA is their programming, not their hardware.

This was a Verizon-BRANDED device by all indication. They wouldn't simply take this same "EUT" and just flip it to Sprint.

The testing was conducted in Fremont, CA. Compliance Certification only has offices there and in Japan.

There also isn't mention of using an external tower that I can see, which I would think would be required in such a report.

How the heck did you embed a URL?!? I've tried a few different ways and have never gotten the front page to do it.

M.

Use HTTP tags: with "a" and "href" (Would show you exactly, but it would just create another link that is invisible and goes nowhere)

After having tried a couple forms of Wiki/Forum methods, I had tried it with standard HTML in the past, but admittedly it was before the new layout.

THANK YOU!

M.

Use <a href="url">Link text</a> and it works. For example:
<a href="http://www.precentral.net">Precentral</a>
That gives you: Precentral

I hope we can ALL enjoy the pre 3 with a simultaneous launch. That would increase it's chances of succeeding by a lot.

Another great article from speculationcentral.net

Let's pick up the pace Sprint/HP! It's a freaking miracle you still have users holding on to their scratched and dilapidated Pre's.

They put right in the title "rumor and speculation", it's not like they are reporting this as fact and yea, why not provide a glimmer of hope for those of us with the original Pre on Sprint? It's better than nothing.

Not sure it is better than nothing, it brings up more pain each time I think about it not coming to Sprint and right now it sure isn't looking good. The post does nothing for me (positive anyways).

The fact that so many users who have been there since the launch of the Pre on Sprint, myself included, is a testament to webOS. Are there faster, more powerful phones available from Sprint? Sure there are, but NONE of them have webOS. I am clinging to the hope that the Pre3 comes to Sprint.

i just received a promo email from sprint today offer a deal on the pixi for free. perhaps they are trying to blow out inventory?

my preOriginal (6/6/09) is still working but has begun falling apart at the hinges.

please please please please.

i know it doesn't have hinges. is only an expression. simmer down out there.

My 6/6/09 Pre power, silent slider, volume, and e,o,u keys all stopped working in the last few months. 2 days ago it stopped connecting to USB mode. I finally had sprint replace it yesterday (for free).

I'm in love with my Pre again - since I don't have to use the virtual keyboard for 6 letters (shift).

The sprint rep asked me why I still had it, told him I was waiting for the Pre3. He mentioned that they told back in Dec they'd get it by March, then April, then May...then he just stopped believing in it.

He used to be a Pre owner but traded it in for an Android. Bastard.

I really wish I had realized if you pay the insurance, if it's electrical - sprint will actually replace the phone for free. If it shows physical damage, then it's $100 through assurian. I had no idea - I would've done this months ago.

Those months are off, push them back by 2.

Also, now that I have my "new" Pre, I can wait a lot longer for a Pre3 on Sprint.

I'm as loyal as they come man from day one numero uno....who can argue that? I agree with comment regarding bringing the pre 2 or the pre plus to sprint, it would not have compete with the flood of droids..i def would've bought one ..but my overclocked over patched pre still holding its own, kicking **** and taking no names - thanks to the guys who made preware possible - created my own droid terminator..with that said the only thing us webos lovers have is hope, so keep HOPE ALIVE and it will come to SPRINT.. :)

Hoping that it's both on Sprint AND launched at the same time as any other carriers getting the Pre^3-- the only thing that would suck worse than agonizing over switching carriers vs holding out for Sprint would be to actually make the switch, then get a Sprint announcement....

Just enough hope to keep me hanging on..BUT IT'S KILLING ME ALREADY!

As Dire Straits used to sing, "I want my, I want my, I want my Sprint Pre 3!"....

I suspect we'll know 'much' more in less then 2 weeks ~

I suspect we'll know just about the same amount in the coming weeks.

Well, I am absolutely certain we'll know more in the coming months.

i don't care which phone it is. as long as it has webOS on it and i can get it on sprint i'll take it!

I am a VZ user...and i dont mind if Sprint gets a pre 3...but i can tell you one thing for sure...sprint reps HAVE NO IDEA WHAT PHONES ARE COMING OUT....they are the LAST to know....if one Sprint rep had proof of a pre 3 it would be all over th internet...proof is when those units show in the ERP systems

I worked for verizon for 10 years...i knew nothing about upcoming products until the day it was announced.

Also, I was chatting with a sprint rep recently, and when answering my question about upcoming webOS devices, they tried to refer me to the Blackberry Style as a WEB OS device.

Saw the same responses with the Pre2 and then all the sudden it never happened. Sprint burned us before with the Pre2 and Im not getting my hopes up till I hear from from a VIP in HP or Sprint confirm it and prolly then wont believe it till I see it for sale.

This is no excuse to let up. We must relentlessly hammer Sprint to pick this phone up till the end.

palm.com/webos-info site still say for the Sprint Pre "We are working on alternative plans and will be sharing details in the coming weeks. Please come back to palm.com/webos-info to find out more" Of course the coming weeks has long since passed but they still say this.

Bringing the pre 3 to Sprint is "not making it right" . It's the only way to even have the opportunity to then make things right. Not bringing the pre3 or other webos devices to Sprint would, in fact, be the opposite as if to say: Loyal customers/users, please reach for ankles one more time and enjoy!

No, they need to offer the pre3 with some extra goodness. Discounts are nice and could work, but something a bit different would be awesome. Buy a touchpad from Sprint and get a Pre3.... sumethin'

HP is a corporation. You are a customer. There is no loyalty implied in that relationship.

that would be cool but, yeah can you actually see them doing something like that? Sprint doesn't care about WebOS - which really annoys me since I still have a Pre- but oh well the plan prices are way to hard to compare to and that is all that has kept me here on Sprint, wish it wasn't the case but I don't have the money to switch carriers :(

Yeah, they need to offer it on Sprint and then bring in some goodies for those who stuck with the original Pre.

The goodies could be a $50 app store credit, free touchstone, or $100 of a TouchPad (asking for more, because it's guaranteeing them another sale).

They should really make a Touchpad/Pre3 bundle that represents a $100 discount anyway. That's a big commitment to the platform.

Not that I'd mind, but why on earth would they do that? Aren't most of us on Sprint going to buy the Pre3 when it comes out regardless? I mean, for me it'll be 2 years in July that I've had this thing and I still love it, though it seems to be a bit tired these days.

Sprint doesn't need to offer free anything. Sprint could announce the Pre3 coming in June, but only to anyone who wears boxer shorts on their heads when walking into the store and I'd be right there in my Fruit of the Loom hat.

I know they said something ages ago about "making it right," but, honestly, for those of us who have waited this long, are we really going to say, "no discount?! I'm going to Verizon."

To make things right, not only should they release it on Sprint. They should offer the phone with a heavy discount for those that bring in their currently activated pre minus phones.

Also hoping this is true. My day 1 Sprint Pre is still kicking, only power button doesnt work anymore.

My Sprint store was able to fix that-- if you hit a store with a built-in repair center, they *might* be able to swap it out for you. Took em about an hour.

Just remember a book-- I reached for my Pre to kill the time about 100X...

It not that bad, I use Exchange for work so I got to slide open to enter password anyway (which wakes up phones). When replacing the battery I just take off power switch n can turn it back on using a pen.

Seriously, since you are already popping it off, cut a lil piece of rubber band using a razor blade, push it down in the hole, pop button back on, good as new. Had to do this to the wifes Pre a few months back after she dropped it, button is as good, if not better than my stock power button.

I am gonna add my 2¢ to the wishing well along w/ every other "Palm" Pre/sprint user and hope that our wishes do come true.

Someone please help me understand why all the negative outlook about yesterdays article of BestBuy possibly offering the Veer for free?

I can remember reading past articles on here about the Veer and lots of people commented that the Veer should be free because its not the flagship phone. It seemed like the consensus was that if the Veer was free it would be the best way to get webOs out to the masses and for HP to really gain some traction in the mobile phone market.

However when I read the comments about the bestbuy article I was shocked to read that a very large majority of the comments were not for this but rather against it. Why the 180 from the readers?

Because the Veer is JUNK. It will and already is getting horrible reviews. Releasing this phone first is baffling, whether it's free or $500. It just makes WebOS look bad!

Hate my post? Prove me wrong. Come back and comment with the great sales figures when you got them... I'm betting you don't, because this phone is FAILURE!

Reviews mean nothing. Pre had awesome reviews and it still didn't do too well. On the other hand Veer is intended for a different type of users. It's targeting people that like smaller phones not necessarily the most powerful phones.

By the way Centros outsold Treos.

This is what I tried saying yesterday... Seriously, the speculation needs to stop and let the numbers talk for themselves next week.

If it didn't do well, then they were right.

If it does well, then they were wrong. Period.

I agree the Pre had great "first look/impressions" reviews, but subsequently it got smacked around after the release. (The build quality and keyboard being the biggest complaints) Not to mention the atrocious mishandling of all the Pre Marketing, giving it almost no chance of success.

So the Veer is marketed (*what marketing?) at a different type of user granted, but who are these people? (Sienfield voice)
Are they first time "smart phone" buyers?
Are they "I like anything free" buyers?
Are they oops I tripped over a display at Best Buy and wow, that's a really a cute phone!
Does advertising/marketing make a difference to this group of users? Because I haven't seen any sign that this phone is going live this weekend, other than here at P|C.

It's destined to fail, and I say the sooner the better. We don't need it tainting the Pre 3 and TP's eventual release.

The Veer is marketed to 9 year old girls AND Jon Rubinstein........;-)

Hey buddy, it sound like you're having a terrible life. Why are you mad? Is life treating you bad? it's not that serious cousin willie. Some technology co. will make something for your need.

I think it's mostly the stigma against "free" phones. Consumers feel that it can't be a very good phone if it's free. There are some solid psychological studies on the phenomenon (Google: "Price Placebo Effect").

On one hand, you have consumers who will not choose the phone, because they'd rather pay the $200 to upgrade to what they perceive is a better phone. They are happy to do this because if they are going to spend $1500-$2000 on a contract over the next two years, the 10% more for a better phone is less significant.

On the other hand, there are people who like the free phone move, because free is price that most consumers enjoy ;-).

I'd like to see a couple of versions. A free version and one that comes bundled with accessories like a touchstone and an app store credit. Perhaps that would be $50 or something. It would be nice if they can think of enough extras to through in (maybe a Beats headphone upgrade) to make it a $100 Veer Bundle that has $200 of "upsell" extras in it.

They could market the bundle much better with a campaign of "When you spend $200 to for an iPhone you just get, well an iPhone. For half the price you get a HP Veer (or Pre3), high-end headphones, and $50 to spend on apps." I'll leave the exact message to the marketers.

All I know is that Sprint better get the Pre3 or they might lose my business after 12 years.

I understand people saying this, but think about it from Sprint's perspective. This threat carries zero weight.

Since they stopped focusing on WebOS, their financials and subscriber numbers have gone UP dramatically. So "all" of these people hanging on to old Pre and Pixi devices have no material affect on their bottom line. None. Their abstinence is not stopping growth. Not even slowing it down. Leave and take every line with you. Their quarterly numbers won't feel it. They haven't and won't.

If they go for WebOS again, they'll do it on their terms and on their time, as they should. Remember all of the drummed-up outrage around here on their Facebook page about not carrying the Pre 2? What effect did that have?

They are gaining subscribers because T-mobile is having financial issues and is losing their subscribers to mostly Sprint. It has nothing to do with WebOS at all. If that was the case Verizon would be losing subscribers as well since they have the biggest WebOS lineup.

Huh? They are gaining subscribers because the HTC Evo is still one of the top 5 selling US smartphones almost a year after its release. They needed a hero device. They got one.

And that is the point precisely. WebOS never created net growth for them. So if they lose however many remaining WebOS subscribers on Sprint, it won't be a net loss, especially with the Evo3D launching in 60 days or so.

Therein lies the problem, doesn't it? Pre 3 isn't a hero device. It's a device aimed at 2 very specific markets: webOS users (a number not even worth talking about according to Ruby) and international travelers. This is not a Hero device. The Evo 3D is a hero device. Pre 3 is a niche device. That is HP's problem. WebOS will never be a success without a cutting edge "hero" phone with a halo effect for the rest of the ecosystem. HP appears incapable of pushing out that type of cutting-edge phone.

I don't think HP is incapable at all. I think Rubinstein is, and as long as he is in charge of the phone part of WebOS and its hardware direction, it's going to be sad faces galore.

Given how HP just announced attractive and stepped up versions of their laptop line, they only need provide the same quality of materials and solid engineering to the phone line. When or IF they plan to is anyone's guess.

Sprint carries a lot of phones that aren't even worth getting for free. Not all phones offered are supposed to be hero devices. In fact Palm phones were never hero devices. They were never built for people to convert from dumb phones to smart phones. They are used primarily in enterprise and medical fields.

The reason it didn't succeed as well as they wanted it wasn't because it can't compete feature wise with android phones. It was simply because of bad hardware quality. Enterprise users need reliable handsets not handsets that do all kinds of little things that are hardly ever used.

Pre was the first version so it wasn't that unexpected to have hardware issues. The Pre2 on the other hand has a solid build quality. If they don't bring Pre3 they are just basically indicating that they are moving away from supporting enterprise users like me. Phone companies make money from enterprise accounts not number of subscribers. Sprint gained subscribers but they still had loss of revenue.

Wait...WebOS is the device OS of choice for enterprise users now? Reaaaaaaaallllllllllyyyyyy? Come on....

Before you trot out the bad hardware quality canard (and it was definitely a factor), keep in mind that WebOS sales only ever went down from launch. Each quarter of sellthrough numbers Palm reported until being acquired by HP was less than the last. So better hardware on Verizon and AT&T didn't help. And the Pre 2 is definitely not reversing the trend even though it's available on a carrier more than double the size of the carrier the Pre launched on.

I said Palm phones not WebOS. WebOS wasn't their first entrance in the enterprise environment. Palm has been one of the major players in enterprise for awhile.

WebOS is only the replacement for PalmOS. WebOS though definitely has the potential of replacing BlackberyOS in the enterprise world.

We're talking WebOS. That's where Sprint got off the train. Palm is no longer a major enterprise player.

And Sprint gave them every chance to realize that potential. Palm blew it with cheap hardware, badly-timed devices (the Pixi) and horrible commercials.

+ 10 on the horrible commercials

You're right about the Evo but your post makes it look like the reason for Sprint's growth is the fact that they stopped focusing on webOS. As if no one would buy a Sprint phone as long as they are carrying a webOS phone. The Evo and all of its variations are certainly one of the major reasons for Sprint's growth but every line lost to another carrier matters. That's how they add up.

How many lines and how much money do you think they lost with incessant refurbs, broken devices when people didn't have insurance, support costs, and mediocre ratings on Sprint.com?

It's a business, and there has to be a net gain. WebOS has been - thus far - a net loss for Sprint. The negatives outweighed the positives.

The Evo/Android business, on the other hand, has been a huge net plus. That's not to say they will never carry a WebOS phone. Just that it isn't a priority. Definitely not for their sales reps.

Ultimately, the reason they grew is because they stopped focusing on WebOS AND because they started focusing on a platform with an immediate future. It's up to HP to show that WebOS has an immediate future now. Who can blame Sprint for being slow to act without seeing that?

Wrong.

Sprint has still been losing subscribers. So your premise is absolutely false.

Sprint has been gaining subscribers through their pre-paid arms (e.g. Boost) and returned to profitability through cost cutting measures and raising fees.

My premise isn't false.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20110428005825/en/Sprint-Nextel-Re...

"Sprint lost approximately 114,000 net postpaid subscribers during the quarter, a net improvement of 464,000, or 80 percent, compared to the first quarter of 2010."

They have GREATLY staunched postpaid customer bleeding thanks to the Evo. Two WebOS devices couldn't do it.

Come on man. I have the Evo, so this is not me hating on the Evo.

There are a lot of reasons for the slower rate of decline. The Evo is a small part of that.

Let's not pretend like the Evo has iPhone like sales figures.

The top 5 selling US phones as announced about a month ago were all phones releaed early-to-mid last year. These are the dominant models, and they are NOT small parts of their respective carriers' good fortune.

Only the Droid X, iPhone 4, and iPhone 3GS sold more than the Evo 4G - and those phones are on carriers MORE THAN TWICE the size of Sprint.

"Hating" is irrelevant. The Evo was a HUGE part of Sprint's recovery. They're not doubling down on it with the 3D, Evo Shift, and Evo View tablet because it was a minor success.

Just have to say, long term sprint user gets a WebOS phone, Sprint user leaves Sprint, this can result in a net loss without receiving a net gain. Your theory in the above post is flawed. A device need not result in a net gain for the not carrying the follow up device to result in a net gain.

I also would argue it is incorrect to say Sprint didn't get a net gain with the Pre/WebOS. It may already no longer be a net gain compared to June 2 years ago, but at the time it was.

Personally being a long time Sprint user, from the first camera phones to Palm OS, to Web OS. The $10 per a line fee is going to make me and many others look at VZW before we sign another contract, that WebOS device on VZW combined with what will now be much closer contract prices may result in a large net loss for Sprint. These things aren't mutually exclusive, sprint raising prices combined with a limited number of phones that fit the needs of most long time Palm/Web OS users (physical keyboards). VZW does look like an option to many, even if it's just comparing all phones and plans.

AFAIR Sprint was loosing subscribers before they had the Pre.

So while the Pre didn't save them from loosing customers it wasn't the cause of that either.

Loosing a part of their customer base because they would rather follow their preferred os to another service then would affect their subscriber numbers (if by a significant amount is another matter).
If Sprint can keep them by offering 1 more phone model it would make total sense to do so.

Sprint is a carrier. They don't really care about phones either way. Selling phones is a means to an end. As long as they don't have to handle above average return rates offering an extra phone is not a big deal (and the personnel was already trained on webos before).

I never said the Pre caused them to lose subscribers. But it didn't do nearly enough to stem the tide and was a failure given the hype and marketing resources Sprint put behind the launch.

But remember...since the launch of the Pre, there have been three more generations of WebOS devices launched exclusively on other carriers (Pre Plus, Pre 2, Veer), and yet Sprint has merely grown. So from their perspective, they're not seeing a mass exodus that would lend credence to any individual threats of "I've been a customer for 12 years, and if Sprint doesn't get the Pre 3, we are THROUGH!"

Veer has NOT been released, since the phone hasn't been released Sprint wouldn't see that customer loss until Sunday at the earliest. We can then add to that WebOS customers are under contract until at least the beginning of June. Now I am not saying the Veer will pull many people from Sprint, especially with the carrier being AT&T.

Your other phone examples fall under the still under contract with Sprint thing. I still stick with Sprints biggest mistake if they are not attempting to carry WebOS going forward is the $10 per line price hike for smartphones. They are bringing their prices up to the competition and people are arguing they won't lose subscribers... If prices stayed as they had been last year, and no WebOS device, I would have at least looked at Androids with physical keyboards on Sprint. At this point, launch the Pre3 elsewhere and I will be comparing carrier pricing before I consider phones.

They are not gaining customers because they stopped offering webOS phones. They started gaining customers because they 1) got a number of other good/great phones, 2) have the cheapest everything plan (this came out after the pre release) and 3) they were the first (still only?) company that allows unlimited mobile to mobile calling-this also came out after release of the Pre.

Any link to NOT having webOS and their numbers going up is a joke. I will also bet, if you ask any executive at Sprint, they will say they don't want to lose a single Spring customer. That does not mean they will make bad business decisions to reward x % of their customers, but the leap you make defies logic.

Dude....READ. I said that they are gaining customers because they stopped focusing on WebOS AND because they focused on a growth platform that accounts for almost all of their "good/great phones": Android.

WebOS hasn't taken off at any carrier anywhere, so Sprint would not have the turnaround they are having if they stuck with WebOS as a flagship. They just wouldn't. NO carrier has WebOS as a flagship platform. It's nothing personal, but it has never been a platform of growth. Sales numbers dropped every quarter it was out. Hardware has been plagued by both defects and delays. Palm got acquired.

NONE of this has any bearing on the software itself. It's just been dealt a bad hand and played it worse.

I thought the Pre 3 had a 3.6 inch screen, not 3.7!

3.58 inch, to be exact, but you'll basically be on par with a 3.7-inch Droid or Incredible. No major difference. All slightly bigger than an iPhone.

If you are bound to a carrier by a lower price can you really call it "loyalty"? That's like saying that I've been a loyal user of 83 octane unleaded gasoline for 20 years, now.

True. Sprint's loaded up with people with that bizarre mentality.

"I've been a loyal Sprint SERO customer for years, and if Sprint doesn't make the latest superphone available for free on my $12/month plan, I am LEAVING!"

As if their reason for being on Sprint was anything *other* than price to begin with...

You can't buy smartphones on SERO plans. Plus Sprint prices aren't that different than AT&T right now.

That's my point. Yet I know many SERO customers who want them anyway and point to their loyalty to Sprint as a reason they're entitled to it -- as though the loyalty is something other than low price. :)

Actually, I have done the math.

To get as close as possible to exactly what I have now with Sprint, AT&T is +$30, Verizon is +$15.

Unlimited Data
Unlimited SMS
7pm Night start time
Unlimited Night/Weekend
Unlimited to *ANY* mobile (VZW allows only 10)
1500 Shared Minutes (weekDAY calls to land lines is about the only thing that uses this)

Sprint comes in hands down the winner. Yes, I'm even factoring in my TEP to my Sprint cost and it's still the cheapest.

M.

Also consider the numerous folks that get an employer group discount. My 25% discount on Sprint would go to zero on another carrier.

You forgot the extra $10 per line for a new smartphone contract (reup of contract). Assuming 2 lines or more that savings is gone. I will be doing the math hard core when it comes contract time for us. We do have a %17 corp discount on Sprint, but I can qualify for a similar discount on VZW.

I would love to stay with Sprint, and 2 years ago it was hands down cheaper and was factored into the decision to go from Palm OS to the Pre. We are still happy with our Pre's, but will be looking at the options again for our next 2 year contract.

Don't forget Sprint Navigation--$10/mo on most other carriers though they may have a free app.

I don't know if it's a new thing or not but they wouldn't activate a Pre on SERO even if you bought the Pre.

Some of us are on Sprint because Sprint always was the first one to carry Palm flagship phones.

Yep, I was there too. I left when it became clear the center of Palm gravity had shifted to Verizon and AT&T.

I wouldn't say that. Their growth lately has been driven by a $199 Evo couple with the affordable monthly plans. But they've made the plans less affordable, and they are still growing more than they have in the past two years, so....

By growing more than the last two years you mean losing less subscribers than the last two years.

The subscriber growth for Sprint has been Boost Mobile.

Thanks for repeating, but it's growth regardless. In case you haven't noticed, a good deal of any Sprint store's on-the-floor lineup is dedicated to Boost and Virgin.

And yes, losing WAAAY less postpaid subscribers net is growth.

Definition of growth: growth = increase.

They have not increased, they have slowed the rate of decrease. Not the same thing.

Going from 10 to 8 is still a decrease, even if it is better than the previous decline of 15 to 10.

This is the most ridiculous word parsing ever. Whatever you want to call it, the Evo is responsible for it. WebOS is not. There.

The original Pre owners (such as I)definately have a "make it right" moment coming. No new Web OS phones, and no 2.xx software updates. I too hoped for the Pre Plus or 2, and felt shorted. My wife got me one on release date, and I am looking forward to getting one for Fathers Day.

The "make it right moment" for this launch party pre- owner is the moment the evo 3D or Samsung Galaxy SII come out. I'm tired of the bitter delays and **** hardware. WebOS is a superior platform, but why would I go from an antiquated pre- to an only-slightly-less-antiquated pre3?

I went to the Evo about 3 months ago. I upgraded my wifes Blackbery to Evo. I tried it for a little while and decided to get one since it had Flash player. Just about 3 weeks ago, I put my Pre back into use. The Web OS software, to me, is worth the smaller screen and no flash. Not to mention the battery life on the Evo Sux chicken innerds.

-I hope Sprint can get passed the awful reboot of WebOS with the release of the Veer.

Sprint, please take the AT&T HP Veer and wedge it under a door, now kick it real hard!
-I bet that feels real good.

Please consider bringing the Pre 3 and Touch Pad to Sprint. Yes the Veer is absolute junk, however the Pre 3 and Touch Pad are actually great, and show how WebOS is the best phone OS in existence.

-Kick that Veer once for me while you are at it!

My wish... If Google could give a free Galaxy tab to everyone at their I/O conference, why can't HP give a free Touchpad to every Sprint customer who trades in their Pre -. This would help "make things right".

That would probably cost them less than google considering the Pre- owners out there number less than the 5000 IO attendees. The downside is to google got great press for the slim, **** device. HP, on the other hand, is releasing a fat brick of a tablet.

If Sprint gets pre 3 I would wait a few months to buy... HPalm has a track record of coming out of the gate overpriced only to do massive price drops shortly thereafter. (see. sprint pre- & Verizon pre 2)

EDIT: Did someone seriously give me a thumbs down? Some people on here are serious d-bags.

I can agree with the sprint pre, the Pre 2 was bad all together as far as a launch. Phone that probably should have launched around the time HP bought Palm, but clearly do to the buyout could not.

We bought our Pre-'s the October after launch and IIRC price had dropped $50 from launch. I am pretty sure this was on the Sprint subsidy side, $50 instant rebate on top of the mail in or something. I have seen Sprint do this with other phones as well, especially with their subscriber loses over the years. At the same time when we bought our Pre's not only had they dropped the price, but they had just rolled out any mobile, any time, and right around the same time made the good changes to the S|P program (that they have since rolled back).

This site should no longer be called Precentral, I think HOPEcentral would be a better name. Most post are rumors, speculation and a little bit of desperation.

It was like this before Palm was sold, it was like this after Palm was sold, it was like this before any new devices were announced and, most damning, it was like this after new devices were announced.

WebOS is just sort of like a terminal cancer patient where we all hope it will go into remission but deep down...

(Derek, nice job.)

Having a Pre 3 available on Sprint does not make things right for me. It will take a lot more than that. Maybe a trade-up program or BIG discount on a Pre 3 will work. But giving me the privilege to pay full price for a Pre 3 is not "right".

I agree. Making things "right" by letting us pay the same price as non-webOS users doesn't really seem like much of a benefit.

Um, it has not even been 24 months since the original Pre was released. I cannot see how HP\Palm nor Sprint owe "Launch" customers anything beyond the subsidized price at this point.

If anything the only reason HP\Palm needs to "make it right" is because they wouldn't expend the gross resources necessary to engineer and over-the-air upgrade to the original Pres to 2.0.

Considering that noone in this thread is whining that their software sucks, only that their hardware sucks, I hardly see the point of HP making anything up to anyone. If Sprint (or Verizon for that matter) offers a new WebOS phone this summer then anyone who wants a new DEVICE will be able to get that device, subsidized.

I am just not convinced that the same people complaining\whining\crying on this thread that they deserve some sort of "upgrade" would forego the Pre 3 even if there was a over-the-air upgrade to WebOS 2.0 on June 1st. Those same folks will be standing in line for their Pre 3 because their 2 Year Cycle is up and they are due for an upgrade.

Simple as that.

Let me chime in with the troll brigade schizophrenia:

"Sprint won't sell the Pre3, so webOS is doomed as customers defect to Android."

"Ha! Sprint is selling the Pre3! This shows how desperate and doomed HP is by selling on the #3 carrier!"

Now that that's over with, I must say I still don't understand the entitlement view that people (especially on Sprint) have about HP providing them with free/discounted phones.

I'd love to see concrete carrier details and ship dates, but HP doesn't "owe" you a new Sprint handset for free or at some huge discount. Further, HP can want to sell you a Pre3 all it wants, but if Sprint continues to refuse to stock recent webOS devices, then HP's desires mean nothing. Sprint will NEVER activate a "non-approved" CDMA device on their network, period.

Because HP said something. If HP had never said anything about "making it right", the tone of the current user base would be much different.

http://www.everythingpre.com/hp-plans-to-make-things-right/2011/02/11/

http://www.webosroundup.com/2011/02/engadget-has-a-great-interview-with-hp/

The only reason that people are saying that we are "owed" something is because HP execs themselves said that they were going to "make it up to us" because of the lack of webos 2.x update for our Sprint Pres. And simply the release of a newer phone is not "Making it up to us"

Cry me a river.

It really sucks to be in a position where I've waited this long for a second webOS phone on Sprint. I'd hate to give up and leave sprint, and i'm not going to at this point. That is the really, really sad part of being a Pre- owner, webOS lover...

It's the downside of the CDMA technology and associated business model. If a carrier decides to stop selling a particular line of phone, you cannot buy your own and activate it.

The same thing can happen to any device line, BTW -- if Sprint decided to stop supporting RIM or Android, there's nothing the manufacturers could do about it, since it's Sprint's decision as to whether to allow your phone on the network or not.

The AT&T-T-Mobile merger is a concern as a result of this, since it creates a monopoly in the "open phone carrier" market and makes 2 of the top 3 network operators into companies that have closed networks.

I gave up, too tired of rumors, speculation and sliding delivery dates. I am now finally sync to a caldav server!

Besides I will be eligible for a new phone in two years, well before the Pre3 comes to sprint.

--HTC EVO

unfortunately you are prob right :(

I have butterflies!! :.D
I hope it is released on all carriers at the same time. I have tons of friends on Verizon and AT&T that I have sold on this phone hands down. Keep in mind I am selling them using my Pre- as the opener. Then they all say the same thing. "I need a bigger screen, this keyboard is kinda small, this camera sucks, I have 2 cameras on mine and a 1ghz processor." Then I show them the Pre3... FIREWORKS in their eyes!! "Dude this phone looks amazing, when does this come out!? I want one AAahh!!". I then answer "In the coming.."
I literally have about 30 iphone and android users drooling over WebOS and the Pre3.
Come on HP give up the goods we wanna buy them!

What a useless article. Nothing by speculation.

kind of hard to have anything other than speculation when HP is not giving out any details on their products.

which is why they should have waited to get some info before getting people's hopes up.

I SURE HOPE SO!!!

If there isn't any confirmation by the day the Evo 3D comes out, then, 99 percent I'm gone.
I figure that's the end of June.
And even then, it has to be 4G.
If Sprint is going to make me pay an extra $10 for any kind of data with a new phone, I may as well get the biggest bang for the buck.

Sprint Sprint Sprint... I reaaaaaally want to give you my money. Can I give you money? Let me give you my money.

Alls I ask is a new WebOS phone.

Come on... Let me give you my money.

that would be a really good thing if somehow the Pre3 decides to land on Sprint when it launches. There's been a lot of missed connections from HP to the public (Leo's remarks don't help, and Rubenstein keeps looking like the bad guy with the whole 'be patient' thing. I would be curious to see what this big reward is for the 1% or so amount of users who have been overly faithful in waiting out the wait and crossing their fingers for any news, positive or negative.

I know a lot of people will want to criticize HP's decision on having the big news event in February and then waiting a few months to have launches, but you have to understand that they needed to do it. It was a spark. Imagine the iPad2 being released, and the myriad of Android tablets making their way to the market. HP needed people to pay attention. But as a double-edged sword, they paid attention and now they are looking away and looking back, just to see if anything is on the horizon.

As we are days away from the Veer launch, you have to wonder, why aren't they jumping up and down? No teaser commercials on the TV, banner ads, advertising with partners, anything? Surely the Veer is supposed to be huge news when it comes to the newest iteration of webos. And while the Pre2 had a lukewarm reception (not because of the phone itself, but because of the February event), I fear that not enough will be done for the Veer to make it stand out from everything else.

Yeah, there's negativity here and there, but if HP doesn't hear this, then they will never be woken up from this dream. Because of companies like Apple, you have to be able to make it happen.

No one likes ragging on HP, but sometimes you have to wonder, is this the best they can do? The answer will soon be revealed.

Well put.

4G is wonderful, but at the same time I am on wifi about 80% of my day so it's not important for me. Also I have heard a lot about 4G really killing battery life. So, go ahead and get gobbled up by the marketing scam they call 4G.
Pre3 for me!! :.D

4g is great. Sure it takes up battery life, but that is why you have the charger. You might ride a desk all day, but some of us don't. You probably called email a scam too.

I hope sprint gets it so everyone will shut up for once about these pre- phones falling apart. lol.

it's not their fault but boy for anyone thinking on buying a webos phone and then comes on here and hears all this bad news and stuff would turn me off.

I didn't care about 2.0 but since Palm has said they are going to make it right then they should, Just bring a new phone to the carrier is not making it right, They are just doing what they were going to do anyways, So i really do think they need to give everyone $25 app gift cards if you have a active palm profile. If they just gave a discount on the phone it wouldn't help anyone out within their own ecosystem. this way it really doesn't eat into profits, It will actually promote apps more and is a WIN WIN for everyone.

"it's not their fault but boy"
- I initially thought you were calling complainers a butt boy

Maybe I was. HAHAHA

Greg, you are far too sensible and rational with your arguments. You will soon be banned and ridiculed!!! PS- I love the app idea. Doubt it will happen, but it's a great thought.

Could happen, now with the release of promo codes?

I know with the Pre2 here in Canada they were giving app gift cards to employee's of Rogers.

So the App Cards are out there all ready and this would would be the easiest way to "make things right"

HP sells computers at almost every electronics and office store in the country. They sell printers EVERYWHERE, including at the Apple Store. HP will put their phones on as many carriers as possible. The only reason the Veer isn't that way is technological limitations. But that will most likely change once AT&T and Verizon go LTE.

Plus, HP will evenually offer many different phone styles; some will be be available to one carrier and not others but every carrier will have an HP phone.

This is speculation, sure. But it is based on many years of watching how HP does its business. HP did not buy Palm to end up as a niche manufacturer. When HP bought Compaq, HP wasn't a major player in PC sales. We see how that turned out.

Once HP has Palm rolling at full steam, there will be more webOS phones on more carriers than you know what to do with.

It's not up to them, unfortunately. HP's "selling everywhere" did nothing for the Pre 2, and even when THAT eventually rolled out, Verizon treated it like a red-headed stepchild that just stole something out of Daddy's wallet.

The Veer is also on ONE carrier in the US, where Monday's launch is being preceded by...nothing.

But the Pre2 was a pre-HP Palm development. It is understandable that HP would only put tepid support behind it. Wipe the slate clean and start over. Obviously what Palm was trying to do wasn't working.

Don't forget, HP bought Palm for webOS, not the Pre.

As for the Veer, they have to start somewhere. It can run webOS 2.2. The Pre3 will most likely run webOS 3.0 (as it is supposed to come out after the TouchPad). Why delay the Veer until webOS 3.0 when they can go ahead and release it now?

what is the difference in features between webos 2 and webos 3?