The State of the webOS Nation [webOS.O.S.] | webOS Nation

The State of the webOS Nation [webOS.O.S.] 120

by Derek Kessler Wed, 24 Aug 2011 9:40 pm EDT

My fellow Mobile Accomplishers,

Our community has been shaken by recent events. The past year has seen yet another rebirth and near death experience for Palm and webOS. The future of the webOS platform may be in question, but know this: our community has never been stronger. We’ve welcomed thousands of new and returning members to our community, and stand to welcome many more.

We stand on the precipice of an uncertain future. HP has stated their intention to cease making webOS devices, but appears to remain committed to webOS as a platform. It’s no secret that webOS has lacked both marketshare and mindshare, but the recent liquidation discounts HP applied to the TouchPad have helped to expand awareness of webOS as a platform among the general population.

HP has many options at hand for webOS. While they may not want to make webOS devices anymore, don’t think that doesn’t mean there isn’t a future for webOS. Google’s purchase of Motorola changed everything in the mobile space and opened the door for webOS from a new manufacturer.

Whether HP intends to license or sell webOS at this point has not been clarified, though most signs from within the webOS Global Business Unit point towards licensing. Of course, we have to keep in mind that that very unit was kept in the dark about HP leadership’s decision to axe webOS hardware until the information was already public. Even so, licensing appears to be the most realistic solution for the future of webOS. Device manufacturers like Samsung, HTC, and LG have been floated as possible licensees; all could do wonders for webOS. They have handheld manufacturing expertise, carrier relationships, and brand recognition with consumers in a space where HP has very little.

It will likely be months before any such partnership yields results. The combination of hardware and software development, testing, carrier approval, and a dozen other steps mean it will take several months for any new webOS device to make it to market. In the meantime, we’re going to have to make do with what we have now. HP has said they remain dedicated to webOS, which includes updates, backup and restore services, and the App Catalog.

Our community will persevere no matter the future. We have the best and brightest members and a staff dedicated to ensuring the environment is open and welcoming to new and old members alike. In the face of the unsure future for webOS, we have to remain open to all possibilities, while maintaining our optimistic outlook.

webOS is not dead. But we have to be realistic about the future. webOS may not yet be dead, but it is on life support. The future is dependent upon companies with which our community has no experience. The last time that happened – when HP bought Palm – things did not go as smoothly as we would have liked. It will not be easy, and it will not happen quickly. This is not the last time this community will be tested.

The people behind webOS are still a talented and dedicated crew. They are committed to making sure webOS continues to improve, that it sees success. Their goals are the goals of our community.

We must not forget about WebOS Internals. Their tireless volunteer coding has improved webOS in ways that Palm and HP could not. They depend on the support of HP and – more importantly – the support of this community. Without the community, WebOS Internals would be nothing. And without WebOS Internals, this community would be nothing like what it is today. The open source work of WebOS Internals has promoted optimism and camaraderie unequaled anywhere in the mobile space.

webOS can succeed. With the right companies behind it, strong marketing and developer support, and improved carrier relationships, webOS can take its place as a recognized member of the mobile ecosystem. Our platform of choice might be down, but as recent days have shown, webOS is not out. Far from it.

The webOS nation is strong and growing. We will persevere, and on the back end of these trials we will emerge with a stronger and more vibrant community than ever.



Glad to hear something positive even though every bit of news lately has seemed bad. :)

Idle speculation.

HP couldn't finish WebOS for their own products, how would they suddenly be able to finish it for a third party?

Three generations of products, not one can edit a simple Word document.

The thought of a former HP competitors giving HP money for an incomplete o/s, with pretty much no apps and none expected, and a poor reputation for advancement seems pretty silly compared to getting Android for free, a growing app selection and community, and a history of growth and upgrades.

We've learned a simple lesson. People can live with WebOS's shortcomings when you cut the price by 80%. Let's not let the success of the last five days, erase the stench of 2.5 years of failure, lies and disappointments.

If I were a potential licensee, the first thing I would demand is that HP increase the size of the emulator window for phone apps (or better integrate said apps). This would greatly enhance the utility of the app catalog.

The second thing I would demand is Leo Apotheker's resignation. Too much to ask?

This may be a little (very) off topic, but here's some nostalgia for everyone.

Yeah, this is the same video that was shipped on all Pre's. An MP4 file...

He's gonna quit. He quit SAP, and this is a much bigger disaster.

Androidmis free, but it uses other peoples patents and so every phone that gets released means the company making the phone has to pay fees to Microsoft etc.

That's pretty much true with most high tech devices. Patent licenses is just a cost of doing business. Sometimes it takes a court ruling to set them up, but often their pretty matter-o-fact for software assets and hardware design.

Nothing is ever totally free. WebOS has a long way to go before they could command a $50 o/s license from anybody. Windows is there. Android could get it, but they'd rather have the eyeballs than the money.

Maybe you need to realize that Android isn't free. Manufacturers have to pay MS royalties for the right to legally use Android. On top of that, Apple is having success suing Android phone manufacturers, and has already had a preliminary ruling in favor of a US injunction on HTC products.

When are folks like you going to understand that Android is in a very tenuous legal position and that manufacturers like Samsung and HTC have already shown interest in webOS licensing for this very reason!?

Of course, then there's the whole interface thing with Android. No thanks, I'll pass.


You said that HP couldn't finish webOS. What constitutes a finished OS? I see new versions of iOS, MacOS, Windows, Android, Linux, etc. coming out all the time. I don't think I've seen one company come out and say, "We're done... our software is complete."

As far as not being able to edit a simple Word document, I don't know too many operating systems that provide that functionality out of the box. Windows uses Works (or Word), I believe, but those are not part of the OS. You can get StarOffice or OpenOffice, but again, it's installed separately from the OS. PalmOS had the ability to edit Word documents, so are we going to call that a superior OS?

It's funny that you consider HTC, Samsung, LG, former HP competitors, but leave out the fact that they are now Google competitors (with the purchase of Motorola) using Google's operating system. With Google's history of hurting other competitors' business (MapQuest, Yahoo, Hotmail, 30boxes, etc.) and with them going full steam into the voice communications business (Android, Google Voice, Nexus creation and Motorola acquisition) it's like getting in bed with a black widow.

Instead you have a chance with a product that near every analyst says is superior and a large userbase (thanks firesale). The apps will be expected when the licensing deal is signed, solving that problem. The poor reputation for advancement? Well iOS is still catching up with OTA updates and notifications, so that's quite arguable.

People aren't learning to live with webOS shortcomings when the price is cut by 80%. They are stopping over people like Black Friday. The product was selling out at the $299 mark just a few weeks before.

Just because people are interested in buying Ferraris at $100 and someone is stupid enough to sell them at that price, doesn't mean that people are willing to live with the shortcomings of a Ferrari.

You have some good valid points. +1 to you.

Large userbase? The tablet userbase is a few hundred thousand people - many of which only bought it to resell it! There are thousands of listings every day, and lots more on Craigslist.

The phone userbase is non-existent since the vast majority of WebOS phone hardware cannot run 2.x and definitely not 3.x.

Developers are running AWAY, and it was already tied with Blackberry for the most developer-deficient platform before HP crashed and burned.

Lest we forget, Samsung has already turned down HP's PC business AND is releasing the flagship nexus Prime in partnership with Google in just a couple of months. The idea that they now would want to put a bunch of effort into WebOS seems...I dunno...unlikely?

HTC is going harder on Windows Phone and about to announce to souped up Mango devices with more to follow. That is their auxiliary platform. webOS would be a distant and unimportant third if they ever decided to dabble with it.

LG's smartphones are pretty much a joke, and a unpromoted, non-entity in the US.

You think any of these are "upgrades" from the pitiful phone situation with HP? Think again.

As you pointed out, there are listings on ebay and Craigslist....and they are finding end buyers. Granted, the userbase is not 5 billion but to say all the bought tablets aren't going to end buyers is ludicrous.

"Developers are running AWAY..." and you would know this how? There is a thread elsewhere in the forums where this question was asked TO DEVELOPERS and from the last postings I read a few days back, none of them said they were running away.

Developers are confused by HP's lack of direction but temporarily they are going to do quite well with the influx of new webOS users. It may help that many webOS programmers are either cross-platform or part-time developers with a fulltime job. I think bottomline is that the webOS is in a very precarious position with the sole bright spot of runaway touchpad sales. If you took that away, RIP webOS. Most of press has been positive about touchpad now that it's been discontinued. (IRONIC)
WebOS has a chance to survive if 1) HP's next few steps are good (like reasonably cheap licenses or cheap sale price) and 2) manufacturers get nervous about Google's acquisition of Motorola, 3) webos licensee(s) get making devices quickly. Future WebOS manufacturers will have be flexible with their phones sales to reassure leery carriers.


"You said that HP couldn't finish webOS. What constitutes a finished OS?"

I'll set the bar really, really, really low. (Jeff Foxworthy voice).

If your o/s maker makes multilple statements and promises that your o/s will do something "soon", but never delivers, YOU MIGHT HAVE AN INCOMPLETE O/S.

and by the way no software is every really complete


"and by the way no software is every really complete"

Now, you're a man that knows something about incomplete o/s's. Spot on buddy.

No software is ever complete, especially an o/s. So HP's history of giving up in eight months or less with no ota updates, refinements, enhancements, etc, up to the point where there is no practical user base or the device is absolutely maxed out, that would make an o/s incomplete when they don't continue to invest in the product, or the customers that are contractually bound for a two year ride. Thanks for backing me up on this.

My Nexxus S blows compared to my (as you put it "incomplete") Pre minus. Hardware wise the nexxus s is beatifull, but android is a joke. It's so poorly intergrated. Android requires too many steps to accomplish basic tasks. Androids' inability to allow you to close programs is in itself the most frustrating characteristics of the OS. I personnaly just hate the browser. If Web OS is incomplete, what do you say about a native email client that wont let you empty trash. I have countless emails in my Trash. Junk. You can't multitask, and no forcing you to do multiple steps to do what should be a single step is not multitasking.

Wow, I found a user who shares the same exact sentiment I have with a Nexus S.

Well ? Where are more touchpads!

I have my fingers ready for the buy button.

Sorry if this sounds naive, but the forums are abuzz with hacking Android to the Touchpad and getting webOS running on other tabs. If we're talking about some hardware manufacturer's timetable, what if they already have a qualcomm tab? Should it be that hard?

A big issue is with the comm "boards" and graphics chips, not so much the CPU interface at this point.

Allow me to say something about that. The Galaxy Tab is a really nice tablet, hardwarewise, that frankly hasn't even remotely competed with the iPad. Because basically, Android simply isn't as good on tablets. Now, the best thing about the TouchPad is...webOS. Because it sure isn't the hardware. The Galaxy Tab is a clunker as a result of Android, and you'd want to put that on inferior hardware?

No...the effort to try and hack Android onto a TouchPad is nothing more than an Android fanboy's weird, confused dream. It's just what they call a p'ssing match to see who can do it. Given all the apps Android's got going for it, that still didn't make the Tab sell. And the idea of dualbooting on a Touchpad is just goofy. I'd maybe use an Android emulator running IN webOS, but booting out and in would be a HUGE hassle. And devour a big chunk of extra flash.

The TP hardware specs are fine, even if the form factor isn't, and aside from apps, the higher end Android tablets have much faster web browsers. I tried the Xoom at Best Buy before buying the TP and it was super quick, confirming PC World's estimate that the fastest tablet browsers are more than twice as fast as the WebOS browser. I'm reminded of using Netscape 4 when surfing on the TP.

Nothing that can't be fixed with the an update though, so HP better get it out quick before folks start hacking it.

Try doing this first. It really does make a difference... Not sure why logging was enabled on production devices, but what the heck...

Woops, his first speedup is a little tricky to do because of the app he selected to do it in. Here is the original posting of his first recommendation that I've been able to duplicate many times...

Apples and oranges.... Turn off corresponding features of the browsers, turn on the ad blocker from prepare, turn off the logging as per numerous postings... And I think you will find the browsing experience comparable.

As of this posting, I'm running uberkernel at 1.5Gh and have turned off/on all the recommended features to speed this thing up.

I've been comparing it to my old laptop updated with Win-7 and Ubuntu and Chrome (w/ adblocker). ...when it comes to browsing and email and YouTube and facebook, I pick up my Touchpad.

When writing something long or using web office ( or google docs) have to go to PC for compatibility and real keyboard.

Here here!

Thank you for this. I was unsure of what I was going to do when my Sprint Pre contract ends on my bday at the very end of the month, but now I know what i'm going to do. I would have taken a chance on the euro Pre 3 with it working in the areas I need it too (as long as the coverage maps I've seen are accurate), but it seems to be too much work for a phone (even webOS) for me. So what I will do is get a Pre 2 and experience what "the Pre should have been" bc I have been happy with the Pre these past 2 years and despite what will happen with webOS, I will be just as happy with a Pre 2 for 2 more!

That's what I did. I found an unlocked Pre2 on ebay for $168, and the seller threw in a free Touchstone, so I jumped on it.

When it arrives I get to do some surgery again, like I did to get my Sprint Pre+, and I figure I'll be good to go another two years.

Given the excellent work of WebOS-Internals and UnixPsycho, the Pre2 clocked at 1.4 is really a very nice piece of hardware, even compared to newer Android devices - minus the gigantic, unwieldy screens, of course.

If I was to purchase an unlocked Pre 2. Would you or would you know someone that would be willing to convert my Pre- to a Pre2? I will of course gladly pay. e-mail me. Same name @

I really hope that HP can strike while the iron is hot (and there is plenty of buzz). If they can announce a major licensee or partner in the next couple weeks, it could be a huge break.

Though I was initially skeptical about all the Android developers and development, I think it's a really good thing - more open source developers joining or at least doing work that could aid webOS-Internals in their efforts is a good thing. An Android port to the Touchpad, for example, could ultimately lead to having Android apps available from within webOS! This would go a long way toward making webOS a much stronger ecosystem (which is widely acknowledge to have a great UI but lacking in the apps department).

Also, for folks who have suggested it - porting webOS to other devices is technically possible but in violation of HP's IP so we probably won't see that happen.

Realize that webOS has a debian/ubuntu Linux kernel underneath. In that regard it is as open as much of Android... It would not be hard for a 3rd party to build a "cards" shell for ubuntu and present an interface not unlike webOS. The mail, networking, word processing (libre) that comes free on Ubuntu are functionally equivalent or superior.... And as far as browsing, I'm running Chrome on my Ubuntu laptop.

HP finds itself in the same place AT&T (the old, real one) found when it attempted to license UNIX System V: get greedy and you WILL be made irrelevant. They better license webOS broadly and cheaply, else there will be some kid with a name like "Linus" who will rewrite webOS under a public license and turn it into a commodity.... Like the underpinnings of Android, webOS, Google ChromEOs, etc. (namely Linux!)

I wish they just f**kin released the pre3.. Ive been jonesin that phone sooo long.. and it would tie us over until they are able to license it and and we see new hardware..

if they made pre3 for verizon and at&t, they need to release em.. or fire sell them!

if not i guess i'll go iphone 5 on sprint..


Seeing as how a new, larger, faster phone has been the one device the entire webOS community has wanted since the original Pre came out, I'd have to agree with that.

HP should sell unlocked GSM Pre 3's, and if AT&T doesn't want to activate them, give webOS Internals help in making the phones appear to be Pre 2's or something.

It would be a very decent thing for them to do...

I doubt that HP wants to support them at this point as they're getting out of the hardware biz.

The next device, the webOS Phoenix will hit the stores "in the coming months"

So how are those WebOs.O.S shirts coming along? I was promised a nifty shirt I will accept nothing less.

They're on the way!

Is there a larger resolution of the picture above? I want to make it the wallpaper on my touchpad and show my webOS love!

Stay tuned. :)

I would LOVE to get that image as my touchpad wallpaper! Any hi-res version??

Someone vote this up, this stupid Galaxy has issues and I meant to vote up, but it clicked down. We need an undo feature! Yes please Derek, make that wallpaper material so I can put it on this POS, and photoshop a caption saying "This is all Jodie Fisher's fault!"

Has anyone else seen this Tom Bradley interview? 600 engineers currently working on WebOS? I don't know what to think anymore! I don't know what to do. My Pre- is cracked and barely function but I keep reactivating it days after switching to anything else. Ugh! I am a WebOS junkie. Is there a 12-step group for this?

600 engineers, and still no TTS, no doc editing, no ability to make 2.0 available for legacy devices, no GPU optimization, focus now on laptops and printers...forget the talk, look at the results. A steady line of incomplete products followed by abandonment.

What has changed since Thursday when they quit two more products lines and warned they'll quit laptops and pcs?

Listened to the interview interesting that he starts out saying "over 4..." catches himself and then says 600 people are working on webOS. I wonder if that 200 discrepancy is the hardware engineering department of webOS or ?

Around four engineers sounds about right. That would probably keep them scrambling to do little pet projects for the big guys while ignoring all strategic and long term software issues.

I mean, they did say they are only stopping hardware production right?

-typed from my dirt cheap TP :-)

I just have to say that I am so disappointed with myself. I over reacted and traded off my TP for a Galaxy. I miss my beloved webOS! Android blows! I will promise, i will not become a troll, because I am a true webOS fan. I so want to find another TP I can afford to buy, but at this point I can only blame myself! Here, here to all who stood fast! Jump the fence, but the grass is a merky goo of sewage... (I was a day one, first in line for the Pre, and the TouchPad) :(

Ya, but you were a first day owner of the TP so your outrage was justified. It's too bad because if you had waited they would have given you the difference back and you'd have an awesome--and cheap--tablet on your hands. Well, I hope you get to enjoy your galaxy though. :)

Early adopter here... Newegg sent me e-mail asking if i want the difference credited back to me..... So of course I did what any sane person would do. Accept. Give me money!

Now I have 400+$$ ready to buy 3 more Touchpads should they become available again.


That's awesome.

Those are nice words but no matter how you look at it the cards (no pun intended) are stacked against webOS.

No Dev will ever come back to webOS without it first proving it can be a success.

And there are currently not enough Dev's to make webOS a success.

It's a check mate situation, the only unlikely thing that could save it would be a company willing to spend money on 100% of the app development and if HP was too scared to invest in webOS then nobody will.

Oh and not to mention there will be no devices coming out, so there's that.

I'm not convinced this is true anymore. HP clearly didn't plan out their recent decisions in advance, so they probably didn't reach out to any potential suitors, so I wouldn't be shocked to hear that some asian companies announce that want easy access to the tablet/smart phone biz via licensing webOS.

The issue is that HP/PSG needs to demonstrate that they're serious about improving the OS on both tablets and phones and show that they'll stick with the OS in the long term.

They've owned Palm for over a year. How is their track record on OS improvements and dedication to the OS so far?

Yes licensing to Sony and Access(an Asian company)worked out well in the past for Palm.

What if they get webOS on Samsung TV's. SmartTV a whole new market that's huge. Put a wii-like controller in the remote . . . Imagine flipping through the cards with your remote to find the DVR of your favorite show, then go back to card view to check on the weather. Who wouldn't want that. It's time to combine the TV with the Wii and WebOS is a great start.

WebOS meets samsung TV... interesting.
WebOS meets remote control app.... I like
Sounds fun to me!

Ahh finally I can comment from my touch pad I love WebOS because it has everything I need I am not much of an app junkie but I have used IOS and let me tell you besides the apps WebOS is its only true competitor in the market.

How many of these types of articles have to be written?

Gotta fill these pages with something and generate comments/clicks or get the Nokia Experts treatment.

Derek, let's write an article about what a WebOS TV would be like, complete with a keyboard and a Wii-like controller. Everyone is so stuck on phones and tablets, we forget about cars, TV's, and handhelds.

Are you serious?

About staying employed? Yes, Derek is.

About the sentiments in this article? No. It's just fan service like all of the other drivel he wrote to appease people around here for months, then promptly contradicted with his laughable and hypocritical "balls" diatribe.

You're delightful.

Seriously, and there seems to be a load of people commenting who I have no idea who they are.

These articles are fluff and speculation.

I am thinking about going back to my Palm Pre and putting my EVO up for backup.I miss the web OS.
I love my HP Touchpad.

I can relate to the feeling. I suddenly have this new found d love for my old Pre- now. As soon as I started using the TP I realized how much I like webOS. I really really hope they get something out asap from Samsung or HTC. I can't hold on to this phone forever :'(

I want a Pre3 for Verizon!

I'm ready to flip my evo 3d for a pre 3. I am over this thing I think

I completely agree, I hate my evo3d, it frustrates me every time I use it, I have to think too much when I want to use it, and the bugs... omg so irritating. Ya it's got a lot of apps... that I never use. I'd switch to a pre3 in a heartbeat if I could.

My EVO 4G frustrates me all the time, thanks to the HTC Sense interface. Still refreshing the HP Touchpad page hoping they return to stock for sale...

I want a Pre3 for Sprint sir. Wish it were more than a dream. Hopefully there is a deal and new line of phones by the time my contract is up. Pre3 could have made me switch carriers. A quality HTC WebOS phone will see me switch (if necessary.)


I want a Pre3 for any US carrier! I'll switch!

Here is my I have hope:
1. there are people at HP in the Personal Systems Group who believe in personal computing and mobile as a viable business venture (it seems silly that anyone could think otherwise, but oh well.) Ari Jaaski leads Palm software development and I highly respect his results on MeeGo. He believes in WebOS. Jon Rubenstein believes in WebOS. Stephen DeWitt believes in WebOS. Richard Kerris believes in WebOS. I think Todd Bradley strongly believes in WebOS. If those folks (and many, many others) go into a personal computer group spinoff that includes WebOS, WebOS will still have chance. If those folks go with WebOS to another company, WebOS has a chance.
2. We know that Apple, Google, and HTC and Lenovo all talked to Palm when they put themselves up for sale. If they were interested then, they will still be interested now. The worst purchasers would be Google and Apple, who would just be purchasing for Palm's patents and to put the only other real OS competitor out of business.
3. The Touchpad is an awesome device. I can't believe how much better it is stability wise from Build 16 on the demo units (with the terrible demo software) to 3.02 build 68. I've got an original iPad that I have used extensively. The Touchpad is better than the original iPad in my view, and it is really not close. Why? Because I'm a professional and I work on my device. Email is way better on the Touchpad than the iPad - not even in the same ballpark if you use lots of email. The calendar is better on the Touchpad. I can make phone calls on my Touchpad that work beautifully on speakerphone in my office. I can do other things on my Touchpad while talking to someone on the phone on my Touchpad. That is incredibly useful. I can play a few games when I have time, which is rare. Add office editing and it is complete. It can play my equal to my iPad with better sound. Pictures of my family work great. But 95% of my tablet time is email, calendar, and web access. And the Touchpad is at least the equal of the iPad 1 browser, though a tad slower than the iPad 2 browser. However, Flash evens that out. I can't count how many times I could read webpages on my iPad due to no Flash support. If it had 4G it would be perfect, and not having it is a big issue for me.
4. Smart tech users know how good WebOS is. People who have used the iPad extensively, who have used Android extensively, know that WebOS and actually the Touchpad is a great product. People like Anandtech, who said if the bugs were worked out it would be his favorite tablet. By and large, the bugs seem to be gone to me. Speed is a major issue but the Touchpad is completely useable now and I know that a team as talented as one led by Ari Jaasksi can figure it out and fix speed issues.
So there is reason for hope. Smart people see the opportunity with webos here. More people getting their hands on it are going to be impressed.

Speed is the big issue. I think people are fine with limited apps for now since the browser is more functional than the iPad's, but they need to speed it up. I've noticed occasional 5-10 second pauses in a number of apps as well, and improvements to streaming video need to made as well. It's all doable, and once in progress manufacturers should be interested in licensing it for future tablets.

Have you installed the patches that improve performance? E.g. Muffle System Logging, Remove Dropped Packet Logging, Unset CFQ IO scheduler. If not, try it.

How could anyone say "No" to the webOS community? We're just plain awesome. Let's get to it, people!

When the last of the hardware goes out the door – for HP that is (always an optimist) – there will be more fans of webOS then one could’ve ever expected. And for Precentral, that should bring more activity.

I’d be the first to say, that I had that Black Friday thought (next day fall-out) – Is this the end of Precentral? Do I have to become androidized?

Anything with roids in it, doesn’t sound pleasant though.

When my wtf moment lapsed, I realized that premature death was really more a case of Pre-maturing. lol

Since I’ve started with a Pre – Bell said it was a best seller – I’ve come to be a big fan of webOS. And of course, aware of the irony that a recommendation from Bell was the right thing for me.

Over the years I`ve come to believe this OS moves better when people experience it. You can massively advertise the **** out of it, with Get me to the Geek non-geek types.

Personally, I`d rather have used the Professor from Gilligan’s Island. With a little CGI magic, I’m certain a Touchpad could be made to wash up on shore – and have the “smart guy” figure out how to use it.

HP could've used word of mouth to do it’s bidding, and hope subjectivity was on its side. Although, with a software solutions capitano stumbling into unfamiliar territory, it only seems apt that hardware was toxic for webOS's health. Some tough reviews and simple organic infatuation elsewhere certainly doesn`t help.

As hindsight is educating us, the price sale offered a case of objectivity and simple economics – featuring a 99 dollar piece of equipment (a pretty good one), that if you think about it, the Dollar Store would not be far from selling them.

IMO, webOS always had a life of its` own. It has a support group that keeps the patient alive, even while an ownership fails to take better advantage of what they had around them. Fortunately - with Leo and his 99 dollar idea - a fast and heavy dose of hardware should help spread the word of Pre.

WE6 OS IS 6ack... Look at all this traffic.. Derrick and the entire precentral staff deserve so much credit..just so happy to 6e relevant in the wireless world again... I am having to train people on how to use the gesture area and how to unlock it so it can access all of the internal goodies.. This is sooo fun.. And its only going to get 6igger... Hp did the 6est thing possi6le and didn't even know what's there move...

I'm in for the long haul. I think webOS is GREAT and can be the next big thing....yes...bigger then Apple. So I will stay the course to see what becomes of WebOS.

Get us a HD picture of the above "seal" for putting on our TPS! Also, those Tshirts really coming? Im up for some!

Nice, @richardkerris retweeted this link. :D

at first i thought that was a loaf of bread.

Have you donated to webOS Internals lately?

Have you mentioned webOS internals to a programmer friend lately?

Have you posted something encouraging lately?

Go. Go do these.

This whole fire-sale proves once again that HP doesn't have a feel for the consumer market. They didn't expect such a massive response. They are now holding back the remaining stock, re-evaluating pricing and apparently will only release the remaining Pre 3s to networks and not sim-free. What an irony (and how opportunists the bloody carriers are)

Was it that difficult? They should have admitted they were late in the game, fire-sale their 'old' hardware, building a user-base in the process and start working on the next models, making sure they are brought in time. Far better use of their marketing budget than spending it in silly adverts.

"We must not forget about WebOS Internals. Their tireless volunteer coding has improved webOS in ways that Palm and HP could not."

Truer words have NEVER been spoken. Without webOS Internals, the plug would have been pulled on webOS -- not by Palm or HP, but by the consumers.

**IF** someone picks up webOS (either through purchase or licensing) the very first thing they should do is either massively fund webOS Internals or acquire and allow them to work autonomously from normal development of webOS.

Sure HP gave them some hardware, but they need more than hardware to keep life in the seemingly lifeless body of webOS.

This is my no-duh moment:

I think HP originally had the best intentions in mind when acquiring webos from Palm. They really thought they could make a go with it.

The underlying issues is the Board of Directors at this point. HP mindset is completely askew from an innovation standpoint. HP is all about creating immediate shareholder value. Tech innovation mandates that companies like this need to be willing to exercise patience; they need to be willing to invest time and resources needed to create great awesome/innovative user experiences - which eventually lead to sales (and of course...the coveted shareholder value will come).

Apple - love them or hate them -works hard at innovating and fine-tuning consumer friendly technology and then watches as it spills out to the enterprise market (i.e. corporate, businesses). Technology/innovation, creating great user experiences - which drive demand (and sales, and of course shareholder value). Build it with the perception of greatness and they shall come.

The Lesson: Shareholder value should never be the focus when it comes to building/releasing innovative technology. HP had an upside down approach to Palm acquisition (and Voodoo, etc. etc.) from the beginning. Before Leo is canned - I think the Board needs to be removed and replaced with people who understand this.

Until then - HP will continue to stumble.

I can only hope webos has a different owner by then.

It wasn't just that. Bad project management was a big part. That could have been mitigated by better project management, by more staff on the project, or by upper management seeing there was a problem and putting better people in the right positions.

In all probability, there will be no new webOS hardware for at least 12 months. I realize that PreCentral needs to milk this for all it's worth, but things are getting a bit melodramatic here!

Time to take stock in what we have. I have a wonderful Pre2 smart phone and now a couple of TouchPad devices that my and my family will use for the foreseeable future. webOS is great. But the best way to see it succeed (if it has a chance at all) is simply to use it and enjoy it. If it is a tool that you can use right now, then it is successful. Why fret so much about what could be - when you have it in your hands right now to use?

Sometimes I have to remind myself that a little perspective is important :)

well i got my PRE3 in the post yesterday boy does it feel like a nice device. Its big so screen will be great to use and the slider feels good. Can't wait to set it up. I got it as i love WebOS so much that i wanted my upgrade until someother manufacturer can bring out a new device!

I try to find patches to set up a Greek keyboard layout for my TouchPad, purchased in the US on early August.

If I can not find the required software, I will send the tablet back to the US.

I have already asked Palm for support to no reply as yet. Please let me know your thoughts,

Thank You,


This is my no-duh moment:

I think HP originally had the best intentions in mind when acquiring webos from Palm. They really thought they could make a go with it.

The underlying issues is the Board of Directors at this point. HP mindset is completely askew from an innovation standpoint. HP is all about creating immediate shareholder value. Tech innovation mandates that companies like this need to be willing to exercise patience; they need to be willing to invest time and resources needed to create great awesome/innovative user experiences - which eventually lead to sales (and of course...the coveted shareholder value will come).

Apple - love them or hate them -works hard at innovating and fine-tuning consumer friendly technology and then watches as it spills out to the enterprise market (i.e. corporate, businesses). Technology/innovation, creating great user experiences - which drive demand (and sales, and of course shareholder value). Build it with the perception of greatness and they shall come.

The Lesson: Shareholder value should never be the focus when it comes to building/releasing innovative technology. HP had an upside down approach to Palm acquisition (and Voodoo, etc. etc.) from the beginning. Before Leo is canned - I think the Board needs to be removed and replaced with people who understand this.

Until then - HP will continue to stumble.

I can only hope webos has a different owner by then.

Hey Derek, Can I have a HighRes version of that seal for my Touchpad?

HP is r e t a r d

Comment: It looks like HP is shedding its: "But you're a PC company" or "You're a Cell phone Company" image. HP sells high end multi-million dollar computer systems and services to go along with them. Fortune 500 companies, Fortune 100 companies and many government agencies. HP is a Global company in every country around the world. HP is far more than just a PC or cell phone company. My guess is HP does not want to be known as only a PC or cell phone or Tablet company. It is far more than that. And... Oracle may soon buy HP. HP could be positioning itself to be bought out by Oracle.

I just checked again this morning and it seems the TP stock has gone from coming soon, to out of stock. Anyone know what that means?

I heard there are waves of TP stock rolling in HP. Keep checking :)

anybody think that seal looks like ice cream sandwiches?!?

I think the seal should have FIVE stars!!

Sort of off topic - If and when HP does another "fire sale" round, do you think because of the demand they're going to jack up the prices?

Hopefully they wont, because all of the ebay sellers and craigslist sellers will be justified. If they keep the prices the same, maybe there will be enough of them out there to where everyone who wants one can get one, and those people are forced to hold on to their personal money making schemes that kept us others chomping at the bit to get one.

True. But I still wouldn't put it past HP.

I'm thinking the best bet now would be to camp out at Best Buy (since they're starting to get a few shipped this week)

I heard that Best Buy was the main retailer that was not going to get anymore in. They told me that they were not going to get anymore in. They dont want anything else to do with the HP TP, which is ignorant bad business sense to me. You still get the store traffic if you carry it. Advertisement is advertisement. We will see.

I received my touchpad yesterday but I'm utterly depressed today, mainly because of the giant black cloud over WebOS. I love the touchpad, but just knowing that there are really very, very, very few good apps for it makes me sad.

I'm still waiting for mine (from HPs site). At first I thought what's the big deal with apps when I can surf, email, look at pictures..etc.

BUT then I played with my wife's recently purchase Ipad last night..OMG! I was downloading everything and anything, and I'm almost certain I would pay to upgade a few of the lite versions I downloaded.

Hope HTC or Samsung jumps on'll help to attract more devs (and maintain the ones we do have)


Very nice article... However, i do feel that "God bless WebOS" would have been an appropriate last sentence :D

How We Can Save Webos (From my blog -

I believe the strategy HP is falling into by default at this point is as follows:

Liquidate all remaining webos device stock as fast as possible and get it in the hands of users

Maintain webos with minimal activity in the form of OTA updates and some continued encouragement of the developer community to maintain webos viability for 12-18 month period while the PSG group is sold or more likely spun off as a standalone unit

License webos to the newly spun off PSG, who will then either make devices that run it or partner with someone to do so. See the ZDNET article below on HPs master plan.

HP is all about the bucks, not the vision. In this scenario, for Webos to survive and not be sold off for its parts (patents), HP must successfully monetize it. This is where we, the community of users and developers, come in. We have to work together and with HP (much as we might wish they were HTC) to retain, indeed enhance the value of Webos as a platform. We all have a part to play. Time to make lemonade. Here is how we do it.

HP must do an all out press to retain its developers and should subsidize big name developers to create apps for the platform - Raw app numbers don't matter, but app quality and popularity does. HP must bring the most popular developers to the platform by any means necessary. if that means building the app for them, its what they should do. Get creative, offer bounties for certain app types, prize competitions like Netflix has done. Whatever it takes HP, get it done.

Webos developers must support and update existing apps and create new ones - the platform has to stay alive for 12-18 months without a hardware refresh. The key to that is keeping the ecosystem alive and that means developers must not orphan, shelve or deepfreeze their apps in the meanwhile. Developers must keep their apps alive.

Webos users must Buy apps - This is key. Its about the money. The firesale has put thousands of webos devices in the hands of new users and their numbers are now added to those of us still using webos. With no devices being made for 12-18 months, the platform will quickly wither for lack of developer support if they can't see any future return for their labors. The Webos community must buy apps. Not just apps we want or like or that are really good. We must buy apps simply because they exist. We must buy apps as a recreational activity. Buy $5 worth of apps a month. Whether you use them or not. Whether you like them or not. Just buy apps. We must subsidize our developer community through this period, so they can come out the other side ready to create new apps when hardware for webos comes back to the market.

User community and HP must financially support Webos Internals - Webos Internals is arguably as responsible for innovation and advancement of the Webos platform as its owners have been. We'll need them to continue their life giving work to this platform, so we must financially support their work and HP should enable them with equipment and bucks. They are a cheap investment in the life of the platform. HP, give them what you spent on the nearly worthless tv advertising, you'll reap far more return for it than the tv spots ever got.

Convert new touchpad owners to rabid webos fans who buy apps - We have been gifted a new crop of webos users. We must convert them to die hard supporters of the platform and mondo app purchasers too.

Retain pre-, pre+, pre2 and touchpad hardware for as long as possible - There are a dwindling number of replacements. We have to keep using all of these devices and help each other as a community with creative ways to fix or replace our devices in the event of loss or failure for the 12-18 months needed to get to a new webos hardware cycle.

If we do all of the above and HP does its part, we can keep Webos on life support and retain it as a viable platform long enough to get to its next opportunity.

I can only say two things: F*** Palm and f*** HP! Firstly Palm had no international outlook - I never got access to the app store - focused on wrong markets and did not invest in marketing and I won't even mention releasing a product with that flimsy slider (you guys had no QA function in your company? fools!) and then HP is a big Microsoft pseudo monopolistic giant completely unable to innovate even though they had it all handed to them on a silver plate. This is a shameful moment for US economy as well and makes Apple look like wonderboys. I can't wait until HP will get their b*** kicked by Chinese competition, that company needs to be boycotted and be dismantled for criminal behaviour. Oh yeah, did I mention that accidentally my Palm just stopped working in the last couple of days. Phone offline, battery wont charge, a lot of functions disabled and it just died completely a minute ago. Wouldn't be surprised if that was a trick by the HP goons to dismantle all Webos phones in non-official markets (Im in Switzerland) I never liked HP but I gave them the benefit of the doubt, as their new logo had suggested they become somehwat fresher - yeah rrrrright - but that was an illusion. I am fed up with this s*** for real, **** all these managers, I have no respect for them. No vision, no strategy, no future!

Somebody please start an Anti-HP blog and go viral. These a******* deserve some serious reputation damage!

OK, Most of you here should know that @bmacfarland's post (WAY up there) was far off base, but I can't let it slide by. PalmOS NEVER had ANY ability to either open nor edit Word (nor Any MSFT Office) file. Ever. Period.

It was the result of hearty and healthy competition and innovation by resourceful programmers within a handful of firms that laid the foundation for this utility, NOW enjoyed by users of iPhones, BBs, Nokia's, iPad's, and, yes, TouchPads.

It's been a LONG journey since the first spreadsheet landed on the PalmPilots in 1997, and Office integration and relatively carefree "round-tripping" appeared a few years later. Those early years were painful.

We should not lose track of just how much we now take for granted!

As for the future- one way or another, webOS has influenced this segment for the better. Others will stand on her shoulders, whether through codebase enhancement, or-perhaps- simple immitation.

I believe that in the end, we will hold a winning hand as the consumer. It is simply a painful time of flux right now.


With Steve Jobs leaving day-to-day with Apple, knowing that the creativity is still in the pipeline, but without the instinct for flair any longer, I can't help but think HP just blew a huge opportunity.
They haven't shown the ability as yet, Microsoft will try sometime, and Google may be on to something, but is far behind where HP was a year ago.
Hope the best for Steve.

I have been with Palm for a good number of years. Have stuck with the Pre waiting for features I once had in my last Treo 755. What an exciting thing was/is WebOs. Am now using this aging Palm Pre Plus and was hanging on waiting for the Pre 3 and hoping HP would realize what a treasure they had in WebOs. Am deeply saddened to have to leave as I have played at length with the Iphone and Android phones and they, imnsho, have nowhere near the class, ease of use and just plain efficacy of WebOs. However, I have to have a phone that adequately meets my bidness and pleasure needs. My spirit will remain with WebOs/Palm is how i feel today and I will hope that it will be somehow utilized and emerge as the worthy competitor that it surely could have been under different circumstances. I have read this site assiduously and enjoyed it very much and will likely continue to do so. Just wanted to say something. Sorry if it sounds as depressed as I am. I hope i will have the chance to have another webOs phone someday...

Pre replaced 6 times. Speaker n mic just went out on my current one. Thinking about choosing a platform that does what is supposed to instead of choosing one because of brash loyalty...yea that sounds about right.

What worries me is these touchpads are great once patched updated and tweaked.

I have just done it to both mine and my wifes

Hp failed as much as a Vista fail, they should of shipped day one with theses bugs fixed.
Some problems like removing the ripple are down right stupid.
it seems rookie mistakes from anon rookie company.
probably a CEO that is not Tech Savvy as I am and I'm 47

once the dust clears and these pads are updated patched and new apps come out maybe the real value will be seen

Already I can name the value I can see

1. Decent browsing
2. Long battery life
3. Nice screen (same as ipad 2)
4. Email
5. Printing is easy
6. Nice photo browser
7. Flash (apple refuses to allow it and yes you need flash at times)
8. Music and can play avi mp4 videos
9. Ereading
10. Decent storage 16 and 32gb

Hopefully WebOs will improve and HP allows another to manufacture the touchpad I honestly like it

users: I am an old OS/2 USER AND A NEW WBOS USER

it looks like HP is going down as IPM OS/2