Todd Bradley talks TouchPad - How HP is driving for success 136
We've heard plenty of talk from Jon Rubenstein (former CEO of Palm), Leo Apotheker (CEO at HP) and even Eric Cador of HP Europe about how HP plans to have a successful launch of the TouchPad this Summer, and now yesterday Todd Bradley stepped up with an interview from Bloomberg to talk more about the coming months at HP. It's pretty clear the direction that HP needs to go in the next few years. More and more of their buyers are switching from personal computers and large home networks to mobile devices and tablets, they'll need to get away from the Microsoft-Intel ecosystem if they're going to be switching in that direction as well. For HP to stay ahead as the Number 1 computer manufacturer in the world, it's going to need to have some early success in the mobile space; that's where the TouchPad comes in.
Want to know more? Hit the break below.
During his interview, Bradley addressed three areas where the TouchPad needs to dominate once it's released, and how HP is working to put the TouchPad on the score board as early as possible. The first point is easy to respond to: HP needs to create an ecosystem that rivals Apple in terms of ease of use and desire to use it. Since HP already manages both the hardware and the software of the TouchPad, they almost immediately get a big advantage on competitiors who are using Windows or Android OS's on their tablets.
Another area HP will need to dominate is in app availability. We know that there are a number of native TouchPad apps already in the works, but Bradley has given us a clear look at precisely how many there will be at launch. 300, he says, which is a far-cry from the 90,000 apps available for the iPad, but definitely looks better than the 50 that Honeycomb had after a month (and probably still more than what the Blackberry carries). Of course, they can't stop there, and HP knows it. They are apparently trying to convince other developers, like Netflix, to join the party by offering them featured listings in services like webOS Pivot.
As something we had not heard about before, he also mentioned a recommendation engine for TouchPad owners to find new apps that are related to their interests, though he didn't mention how those details are aggregated or in what manner those apps will be suggested. But with Pivot, a large number of native apps and HP actively looking for developers to fill gaps in their catalog, the TouchPad might quickly be on the same level as the competition with number of quality native apps, or so they hope.
Lastly, and probably the most important point, it doesn't matter if HP has the huge catalog or competitive ecosystem. If the devices aren't selling, they simply are not selling. As we've seen all along, HP is ramping up a nice marketing campaign for all of their webOS devices. Besides the "hundreds of millions of dollars" that they're spending on the marketing blitz with celebrities like Jay-Z and Manny Pacquaio, HP is also sending out representatives to 600,000 retailers (not including all of the Best Buy's) for training purposes, as well as using their 20,000+ sales force to focus in on large corporate customers to gain a foothold in the tablet world. Those are numbers not to be taken casually, that's for sure.
Even with all of that setup, though, there is still always a big risk with such large undertakings. As Rubenstein says at the end (in a much humbler fashion than his colleague at the EMEA), "We have a really good opportunity to become No. 2 in tablets fairly quickly. Possibly No. 1."
What do you think? With everything that HP is putting into the campaigns, the app catalog and the ecosystem, will they see enough success to possibly carry them over to the top of the pyramid? Or is it going to take more time than they have, since they're entering the game a bit late?
Source: Bloomberg; Via: PreCentral Forums
136 Comments
Looking forward to Friday!
I'm still looking forward to what HP has in store to "making things right" for those who are stuck on 1.4.5.
http://ws.hpwebos.com/WebOsChecker/serialnumber.htm?serialNumber=P5BE0&s...
doesn't even tell you anymore that they're planning on making things right.
Are you the kid I pushed down on the playground in the sixth grade? Get over it, I'm never gonna make it right for you. I moved on and so should you. Sheesh!
Relax Francis ..... uh I mean Wade.
I'm going to F you in the A Wade **** In-Son
I made things right for myself. I'm enjoying my 4th month on Motorola's Atrix and despite its shortfalls and the fact that I believe the WebOS is a better pure OS, the Android apps are great and the HW is very solid.
It's "right" for me to wait a year or so and see if HP offers something compelling. I would like to see them succeed, but now they have to earn back my business.
exactly!
i wonder how you can write rubinsteins name wrong.
Hp is making "some" of the right marketing decisions. As someone else mentioned consistent and pervasive advertising is what works and Hp needs to employ this tactic to get interest built along with the proper message of "Why HP".
The app issue is more of a gimmick but has some real play in the market. Telling consumers you have X amount makes it sound like everyone will be satisfied which is an old ad trick. The reality is much different as quality does not equate quantity. Study the Nintendo model closely. Seemingly they should fail but they consistently provide quality and a controlled experience which develops into loyalty, very similar to Apple's approach.
Hp has to do the following;
Control the eco-system from software to hardware and third party vendors
Create quality checks so user experience is impacted minimally
Generate interest and loyalty by under promising and over delivering on release dates
Budget more resources for R&D so new products for the eco-system grows at a steady manageable rate
The final strategy has to be a consistent message, product compatibility and back end reliability. This means in a broader sense that you develop a product, control quality, support the product for a reasonable amount of time, introduce its replacement as an evolution not a revolution. Revolution speaks of significant change which means your investment is worthless and loyalty diminishes because Hp is simply not focused on a product channel or family but the next big profit producer. This would be a huge mistake and Hp needs to realize that loyalty demands patience, long term goals and focused product roads.
The 'recommendation engine' sounds promising. Hopefully that will carry over to the phones as well.
How "genius" of them..
Why did that suddenly make me think of Wile E. Coyote?? heh
I am really hopeful for the TouchPad, and for HPalm in general. However, I think they need to take a bite out of the Apple marketing playbook or the original DROID marketing campaign. Early, often, and AGGRESSIVE marketing through multiple media. I have yet to see a TouchPad TV commercial. I've yet to see a TouchPad magazine ad. I've yet to hear a TouchPad radio commercial. I'm not saying they don't exist, but I haven't seen/heard any. I can only assume that the majority of the population (i.e. those that don't read P|C) haven't heard of this either. Unconvential marketing is great, but the tried and true is still necessary.
In both instances, they wait until the products hit the market before the real blitz hits. I've found it equal parts fascinating and depressing to see how so many fawn over celebrities but the attention is real. I believe this is why HP is using celebrities to sell their products. While I'd love to see other publications at the checkout in the grocery store but what do you see? Tabloids. It's a good strategy that's not new but proven effective.
Celebrities are effective at selling tech? Then, why was the T-Mobile MyTouch such an underperformer?
They are on their 4th iteration. It's hardly disappeared. Are you going to claim that the iPhone is best selling device on T-mobile next?
They are on their 4th iteration, yet they stopped using celebrities two or three iterations ago.
If this technique is so effective, why stop? I never see a MyTouch Device in the top 5 selling smartphones where the Droid X, Evo, and iPhones dominate. None of those products have celebrities doing ads for them. Neither does iPad.
So odd that no one leading in this space uses this marketing scheme.
The Apple name at this point is enough of a selling point for many people(not me obviously since I hate Apple). The Droid had those very cool advertisements and was the way for Verizon to combat the media hype surrounding the iPhone, and by extension, all Android based devices have profited by showing that there are other smartphones than the iPhone.
So, how does a company get attention? HP is known as a PC maker, not a tablet maker, and not a phone maker by the general public, so celebs work to get some attention, and once people are paying attention, they MAY notice that HP has some new products that compete very well with what is already out there.
...Or you could show what makes WebOS and its oncoming "ecosystem" of apps and content exciting in 30 seconds. There's always that.
Interestingly enough, I just read an article that says there are about 1 million iPhones running on T-mobile (~10% of their subscriber base). Pretty good for something that is not "official" on their network.
I don't doubt that but I can't help but wonder how nice the experience is. They're only getting 2.5G due to the weird band that T-mobile uses to provide 3G. The iPhone doesn't support AWS.
No arguments here. But you've got to admit, it's pretty impressive the number of people willing to use the iPhone on T-mobile despite a less than perfect experience (not that it is perfect for many on AT&T). I think it speaks volumes about the product itself.
I couldnt agree more. Before HP gets the love from customers they want, they need to be hated first. By this I mean not being able to turn on the TV without seeing something webOS. I HATED iPod/iPhone/iPad commercials, they were (are) on all the time, you cant get away. But they get ingraved in you. Same as Android. All over every channel, TV and radio. I dont need a celebrity selling it on TV once an hour. I need to hear 'HP webOS' and 'TouchPad' and even 'Veer & Pre 3' 20 times an hour even if its a C list actor. PROMOTE YOUR DARN PRODUCTS ALREADY HP!
This!
Precisely.
(Oh, and they need DEVICES out there, for customers to be able to buy them. Oh - and they need devices, that people actually WANT and NEED, and not freaking sidewalk-tile sized, iPad 2-priced stupid TouchPad.)
How about Pre 3? How about 7" Opal? On the contrary to what you think, HP, people want/need their phones bigger, and their tabs (if any,that is!!) - smaller, cheaper and lighter (jotter size). And for Gods' sake, put a main camera in that thing, if you ever really think about making it a productivity enhancement tool - and a memory card slot, too.
On the positive note - this is but a second interview (first was recent Apotheker's) with high-rank webOS official, that actually makes sense, and totally - shows the direction, commitment, and the strategy by CONCRETE examples, and not beating around the bush about "potential" and "biggest company in the world", and other corporate blah, blah, blabber. Now, execution of all this stuff - that's another story. Hope they will follow it through. Luckily it begins to shape as they are having a clue how big push is needed for webOS to make it sell. And no, unfortunately, I still don't believe TP is THE device to put webOS back on the map, and specifically not for it's price.
Hope you unleash your best key accounts after the most influential bloggers, and suck to them and charm them with everything magical that webOS/HP has to offer, otherwise the lackluster spec combined with high price will kill TP before you can say "Multitasking and Synergy"
Regards,
well they keep talking ecosystem but wheres the pre 3 that would complete the ecosystem. you cant have a ecosystem of devices with just a touchpad and a veer that doesnt have the firmware to support touch to share just yet.....
The success of the iPhone should largely be attributed to the Apple app store and iTunes. The iPhone would be just another mediocre phone in a crowded space without those two juggernauts.
Excellent point. Much of the ecosystem for the iPhone existed prior to the iPhone, due to the success of the iPod. Same with the iPad. I contend that if either one of those devices launched in a vacuum (sans ecosystem) they would have been way less successful.
As a comparison, look at the non-launch of the Foleo. It was announced before netbooks were popular (unknown market), ran Linux (Android and WebOS tablets), was WIFI only, had no direct email (hello BB Playbook) etc. It was the example of just about every risky move going bad at the same time. What kills me is that other companies didn't learn the lessons talk by this.
"Much of the ecosystem for the iPhone existed prior to the iPhone, due to the success of the iPod. Same with the iPad"
Hear, hear, HP! How it is, that average Joe posting comments on this site can understand BASIC stuff about why Apple can afford high price tags on their stuff, which is just a logical continuation and "step up" for the existing, extremely satisfied customer base, but you, in your biggest-IT-company-in-the-world wisdom, cannot grasp that very same truism?
Interesting. The iTunes leash is the only reason I *don't* want an iPhone. Phone management sans PC was a huge advantage for WebOS, imho.
Agreed! the Touchpad and Pre3 should have been released in the same timeframe... perhaps even the Pre3 released before the Touchpad.
...you bet that Pre 3 should be released before the TouchPad, and MONTHS (if not years - see Apple's example) before. People NEED phones. People don't NEED pads, they might eventually WANT one. But not overpriced, under-specced ones, much less so running exotic, incompatible OS (regardless how excellent).
But cat is out of the bag anyway. Hope that TP's (inevitable) failure will not be the last nail in the webOS' coffin, unfortunately, they can afford less & less fails with every passing quarter.
Friday, why are you taking so long to arrive!!!
Loooooooooooooser!!!!!!!!
No.
It's WOSer!
One must first look within, grasshopper.
lol!
300 apps v.s. 90,000 apps.
I know fanboys... it's about quality and not quantity and WebOS apps are ALL quality.
The even worse news is that HP is making most of these apps themselves. Oh well.
How many people do you know have bought more than 300 apps? How about 150? What about 75? Exactly none.
Even if they were all free, most users wouldn't even seriously consider more than thirty. With probably 20 those being free apps.
The best way to show developers and users what's possible is to have those who know the OS best create apps.But hey, maybe Apple is wrong? GarageBand would've been just as cool if you would've made it. And being so generous, you too would've sold it for 5 bucks.
maybe if they were buying on a os that they know would keep on getting support they would have. that's not us. i bought my last app 2 weeks ago and it was angry birds rio because we all just found out they are not going to support us legacy device users. to answer your question i do know several people who have bought 150 apps. guess what os they are using. ill give you a hint: they dominate the smartphone market and the tablet market. yeah they have the sense of security of a proven os unlike us.
People will fill their devices with apps. So the number owned will be pretty big. Now, how many of those are used on a regular basis? Few, beyond the native browser, email, etc.
You're hinting closer to my point. People will fill their phones with apps.Stipulation being that they're free. Most people spend their money on things they are going to use.
@MTV I can't see someone spending over 150 dollars minimum for a phone that cost just 50 dollars more. Impulse shopping isn't a new concept but it would be news if it wasn't considered a problem.
I know who Apple is. I also know that they can be beaten.iOS 5 is what is because Apple knows this too.
just because you cant see it does not been they're not out there. these people im talking about own just about everything that has and apple in front of it. every single accessory. every new app that comes out for it. these are some of the fan boys that probably have put apple to where it is along with good product development and support. these people are apple evangelists and every time i talk to him he has his ipad 2 out and is showing me something new.if only hp was capable of delivering a product with an ecosystem to attract some of these people to hp, then and only then i see hp reaching the number 3 or 2 spot......
and just how big is this apple base compared to the Global Market for Smartphones and Tablets??
So many marketing experts here, why not go apply at HP for Head of Marketing and see if they like your ideas, vs letting us all know here how smart you think you are.
IMHO.. and we all have one just like that anatomical part we all have called an As..h..e
Are you talking about the "potential" market or the global market? I ask because the global market for smartphones is known and it is currently dominated by Android, iOS and BBOS.
As for what the market could become (potential), who knows? However, the current trends don't show the current leaders slowing down much (though they seem to continue jostling for position).
As far as the Tablet market is concerned, many experts still agree there isn't one yet. People aren't running out to buy a tablet, they are running out to buy an iPad. Manufacturers (many of whom have reduced production of their tablets) are still struggling with ideas on how to change that mindset.
You forgot Symbian which still has a huge but decreasing share.
"Huge" share? You are joking, right? And what change makes officially dead OS, even if it indeed WAS huge, like, all of them Symbian users are just dying to jump onto another platform, that has yet to prove it's long-term survival chances?
I'd bet quite the opposite, they will be very careful this time around to put their bets on.
It's not about one person buying all 300 apps, come on. It's about variety and options. TouchPad will not have DirecTV app, Uverse, Timewarner watch now, MLBTV, NBC Nightly news, ADT, ALL Banking apps, WatchESPN, Ticketmaster/livenation, I could go on forever.
Point is it will have 300 apps and 20 of them will be different twitter apps. It will not have apps that interest people.
Apple makes apps for their own products, they do not make apps for other companies that otherwise would have nothing to do with them. Facebook makes an app for iPad, HP makes a Facebook for Facebook, since Facebook knows WebOS is irrelevant right now.
This debate is ironic to me, since the reason I didn't buy an Apple PC when they first came out was that they hardly had any software to run on them! Now they're the app (volume) leader! So I got an iPod Touch to run my entertainment system and started shopping for these wonderful apps, but I see a bunch of **** I got the app for my gym and it's useless. The app for my bank is not approved in my state yet. And so on.
There is no dedicated Facebook app for the iPad.
Did you see a list of apps available for the Touchpad? We'd like to see that too.
Apple has many of these apps as a work around to not being able to use Flash in the browser.
yeah, right...
This is silly reasoning that would only make sense if these "30 app" people bought the SAME THIRTY APPS.
Millions of users - and I assume that's what they want to scale to rather quickly - need more than 300 apps to choose from.
Apple is a consumer software company. HP is not. The only way HP would make a GarageBand is if they were emulating Apple who made it first. But I don't think this train is gonna get out of the station until they kill the fragmentation in the US. No carriers have the same set of devices, and multiple OS editions abound. Android has the same problem, but that's because there are at least 7-8 major manufacturers, none of whom own the OS.
What is HP's excuse?
I never along with no one else has ever capped the app total at 300 permanently. At least, I don't think that all the developers who are working on their apps are supposed to get them to market on launch day. Don't mind that though,I have silly reasoning apparently. The point is that no one owns every iPhone application. You've made the case for the reason why. You implied the need for variety. Saying that no two individuals will buy the same thirty apps is the same as saying every users will buy all the apps in the catalog. Both cases are just viable. In that they are not.
Things have calmed down now but when the iPhone debuted on Verizon guess what showed up with it? Fragmentation. Which version is the best? Will my case fit on the Verizon one? Why can't I talk and surf at the same time?
Apple didn't do a great job explaining things if they acknowledged them at all.
You're forgetting that the iPhone was and is a juggernaut with widespread acclaim, sales, and developer support....AND THEN it went through minor fragmentation on ONE American carrier.
HP has none of those things and has major fragmentation on EVERY American carrier (let's not mention the WebOS situation in Mexico or some other territories abroad).
I can't even follow what you're saying on the app thing. Anyone who thinks the app catalog and developers currently announced are adequate for the market-at-large is just mistaken. There's no rationalizing this away.
I haven't forgotten about Apple at all. The thing is that I scrutinize it the same way you scrutinize Palm/HP. Apple made a mistake and it's you that's rationalizing that away.
You haven't seen all the apps. You don't know what's on the way. That is what should be determining the credibility of the device not how many thousands of apps. The things I need the tablet to do will be available on launch day. The extra stuff I'm willing to wait and see about.
I'm not rationalizing anything. It's a definite mistake, but it's a minor one made after TONS of success worldwide. That's the difference.
No, I haven't seen all of the apps. I simply know that there is NO benefit to keeping significant app "gets" a secret unless you don't have them. Just like they waited until a week before launch to admit that Steven McArthur's "tens of thousands" of apps was a complete lie.
When launch is imminent, companies can't wait to "share the good news." When a company is silent about apps before launch, that's for a VERY GOOD REASON.
Well, not exactly "good" for potential customers....
Wish I saw your post before I wasted a few seconds stating the same thing. You are exactly right. I'm not sure where this "people won't buy more than 30 apps, therefore you don't need many apps in your ecosystem" logic comes from. In fact, it is not logical at all.
I believe the argument is that there are not that many practical and or useful apps that really interest people out there. If you take the top 100 apps from Apple and Android and have those developed in a reasonable amount of time, you could meet the needs of most (if not all) people. I think you would agree that at 90,000 apps there are going to be a vast number that are completely useless and or not used. I know you know that acceptable variety can be met within a few thousand apps not tens of thousands.
This is what HP would love for us to believe but it is NOT true. I've mentioned this before but HP is missing two big things with this line of reasoning:
1. The top 100 apps is a moving target and it does not represent anything other than what it is (a list of apps that are popular at a particular point in time).
2. Needs change all the time. A large enough ecosystem offers choices for what you need today AND much of what you may need tomorrow.
An example on #2 is what happend when I was redoing my back yard. I needed a rough estimate on the size of the lot so I could go get supplies. I simply downloaded an app that allowed me to measure distance by standing on one end of the lot and pointing my phone towards the other. It NAILED the calculations and caused me not to have to make two trips to the hardware store (once for measuring equipment and another for the actual supplies once the measurements were known).
Will I need that app every day? Nope! Did the ecosystem help me out. Yep! More importantly, I'm reasonably sure that the next time I need some unique, ad-hoc feature, I'll most likely be able to find it in the ecosystem.
My point: ecosystems are not about the top N apps; rather, they are about offering you what you need, when you need even when what you need changes.
EXACTLY. Whatever the top 100 was whenever the App Store launches was NOT the same top 100 6 months later. There was a time when no one knew Instagram was coming...or Hipstamatic....or Pocket God...or Garageband mobile....or....
Under the logic that the two of you aspire too there is no way any other tablet can catch up (which I don't believe to be true). I think that there may be some stability in the top 100 apps. The fact that a there is not an app to do the square footage on taharka's backyard (something he didn't know he needed) doesn't mean instant failure. If it was not there I doubt someone would say this ecosystem sucks. But for some core apps I think it does matter.
Look if you want to hate just hate but don't think pseudo logical arguments back up your hate. There is a possibility for any tablet to catch up and even possible take the lead once the devices become main stream.
"Under the logic that the two of you aspire too there is no way any other tablet can catch up (which I don't believe to be true)."
I cannot see they are saying anything like that. What you just did is a classic tactics: if you cannot argue with your opponents reasoning, put in their mouths something they never say, something that is obviously incorrect, and ridicule them "debunking" "their" points.
Of course there are ways to undercut market leaders. But overpricing under-specced hardware, is NOT one of them.
There is ONE Android tablet manufacturer that is ramping up production of their 10inch Hoineycomb slate. It is Asus with their Transformer. Check it's price. Other tablet manufacturers are slowing down their production runs, backing up from "the hottest mobile market" (hottest my arse). Guess what - they are all trying to sell non-iPad pads, for the similar price (or sometimes they are stupid enough to try even HIGHER price, LOL Motorola!).
See where TouchPad is heading, multitasking and Synergy and all?
Huh?
"huh" what?
Both of your arguments have points. The 100 apps do serve the majority of user's needs. However, having a larger and robust app market will generate the next big app and therefore is very desirable. (rather than waiting in vain for a port from a developer when they have the time) Having 100K + apps will let you find niche apps as well as apps that you personally might like over the top seller app from that category. So in OS, If you don't like quick office then maybe Docs to Go then.... From HP's point, it is a launching an new product and can only cover the important apps to make the device sell. From a marketing perspective, it has to minimize its vulnerability which is a small app base by deemphasizing the need for thousands of apps.
agreed
Sounds reasonable.
I think you may have missed my point. I didn't say not having a square footage app is a make or break. I'm saying a thriving ecosystem (meaning there is a high possibility I'll find what I need "whenever that need arrives") is a make or break. Simply getting the most popular 100 apps, does not a thriving ecosystem make.
Why is it that non-pro-webOS commets must somehow always be "hate"? And where did I mention no one can catch up? Did you perhaps reply to the wrong comment?
This is like saying that you should be able to do all of your grocery shopping at 7-11. They have probably a thousand items in that store. And who would use more than a thousand different food items in any given year?
This!
great analogy!
"How many people do you know have bought more than 300 apps? How about 150? What about 75? Exactly none."
This is such a ridiculous argument. There are millions of iOS users and not all of them want the same apps. It does not matter how many apps ONE person buys. Your ecosystem must have enough variety to support the different wants/needs of a large user base.
But what people do download does matter and if you shoot for the top few 100 apps then they will be doing pretty good for the masses. I think you know that.
What happens tomorrow when the masses want something else?
A dev builds that app tomorrow. What's your point?
...or never. Or HP builds it for him, "in the coming months".
In the meantime, users on other platforms, with diverse app catalogs, are happily chugging away, enjoying it's diversity and broad support.
OK what are you trying to say? That apps will never be built for the Touchpad? HP can't catch up? HP won't be able to build an ecosystem? Because of other diverse platforms no one will buy the Touchpad? You implied earlier that I was putting words in others mouths, so help me understand what you are saying?
(btw I think all of those things can be overcome, not easily but it is possible)
...because you were putting words in other's mouths?
and now you are PREDICTING that "dev will build app tomorrow"
so I took my freedom to PREDICT the opposite, can I?
"Because of other diverse platforms no one will buy the Touchpad?"
Yes - happy to see you seem to finally grasp the obvious. Not for the same (iPad 2) or significantly higher (Transformer) price, than established contenders, where there's ZERO risks to take, when bet on them. And some of them have better specification. And all of them boot at least 50% faster. And all of them are lighter & thinner.
Of course, HP can still throw a lot of money at webOS/TP. But as things stands, they are paddling against the tide, and are doing NOTHING, to turn the tide in their favor. Question remains, how long and how much money their shareholders would allow them to burn in most stupid way, as they are doing now.
My point is, without a thriving ecosystem, there is a reasonable probability that the list of apps won't keep up with the changing needs of the masses.
This is not made up stuff. It's happening right now with webOS. Even HP tried to downplay it by calling it "chasing fads". Palm, back in '09, also tried to downplay it by using the "quality over quantity" line just before allowing companies like Brighthouse Labs to spam the App Catalog.
... I sometimes wonder what you're doing on this forum. You seem to lurk around waiting to say what you always say in your very negative way. If you don't like WebOS then go away and chat on the forums of whatever os you are using. Please.
I am using WebOS Wade. So do I have your permission to stay?
But all that negativity must be draining you? Unless you're the Dark Lord it just takes so much energy to be negative like you are.
Did you just go Harry Potter on his a$$? LOL
LOL I honestly feel it is more energy to be so negative. There are definitely issues with HP to point out but I don't think the tone at times is needed.
Allow me to EDIT Office docs and we can start talking. This is supposed to be a business device for me. It doesn't feel like it if I can't change a Word doc or Excel spreadsheet.I am really conflicted as to buy or not.
"This is supposed to be a business device for me."
...but only in marketing materials.
in my opinion, at this point all everyone cares about is apps first, performance later. all of the performance and multitasking features mean nothing if they have no apps to use on the platform. no apps = no success. with 300 estimated apps at launch the future does not seem too bright for this touchpad.....
p.s.
when are they going to fix the mobile site so that i can post comments from my pre- running 1.4.5????????????
Not true, 300 apps could meet a lot of needs if they are the apps that people actually use. And I disagree with your order. Apple initial won people over with rock solid software (with missing features of course). If the OS is not rock solid no one cares that you have Netflix. If it takes 1 min to open Netflix you're not going to have customers long.
Big ideas and big dreams are cool. That's where it all starts. UnixPsycho has a plethora of FAST planes to choose names from for his Kernels. Well... if the Wright Brothers hadn't flown their rickety machine for 12 seconds a hundred years ago, he'd be out of luck.
My point is that HP has good ideas (pretty damn poor execution at this point, though), and big dreams, but they're not going to get this thing off the ground without casting aside fear. What is that fear? Microsoft.
"Huh? Microsoft?", you say.
Yes. Take this sentence:
"More and more of their buyers are switching from personal computers and large home networks to mobile devices and tablets, they'll need to get away from the Microsoft-Intel ecosystem if they're going to be switching in that direction as well."
MS has major deals with computer companies (HP, Dell, Acer, etc.). Have you tried to spec out a computer WITHOUT Windows pre-loaded? *IF* it's even an option, it actually costs *MORE* to have FREE-DOS installed. MS also has very specific exclusivity clauses in their deals as well.
What is HP (as one example) to do? Dump MS? Realistically, they can't do that. Windows is their bread, butter, the knives to cut and spread, and even the mouth to eat it. So that's not an option.
So how can HP get webOS (Linux - a windows competition) into the hand of IT folks without breaking MS clauses?
"That, detective, is the right question."
I simply don't see how. It's back to the fear of loosing a good portion of your business because you have to charge higher prices for your computers because you broke the deal with Microsoft to make them cheaper.
Just my two cents.
M.
I think I understand the possible issue but I believe they've tried to answer this question.webOS can be used to be the key differentiator between all other PC manufacturers. It can and probably will be used the same as Beats technology is used for HP.
They'll say you'll get the Windows experience you expect PLUS webOS integration. The apps on your phone and tablet work on your PC.The key is to make sure webOS is framed as a complement to Windows not a direct competitor.That notion has been the consistent talking point of HP when the question is asked.
Besides the "possibly number 1" talk I'd say bradley's comments are pretty reasonable
Absolutely! I am actually glad to hear all that.
And 300 native apps for TP at launch - it is still way better than I expected (I thought that about 100 native apps would be a realistic achievement for a launch day).
Sounds good.
The one question I have is - why haven't they started the broadcast advertising campaign yet. July 1st is the launch. This is not an instinct type of purchase. People have to see it; they need to know all about it and be enthusiastic about something like this. Right now - the only people that know about this is the well-informed tech community.
So I ask again - Launch date is July 1 - if they want enthusiasim right out of the gate - why is HP holding off?
Don't they NOW run the risk of having the early news reports say that HP launches it's new webOS tablet to much slower demand then originally anticipated?
Tim, how does HP have a big "ecosystem" advantage against Windows and Android?
Those platforms control native mapping applications. HP relies on third parties. Those platforms have native movie/music services they control. HP does not. What "ecosystem" has HP proposed as of yet to rival Apple's?
It's fine to be a booster of this OS as site writers should be, but don't drop statements like that without substantiation or qualification.
Tim dropped a lot of questionable statements in what he calls an article. If i had time, i'd go through some, but what's the point?
Ok..here's one real quick. "Todd Bradley (we like him)" As opposed to those you don't like at HP? This was stupid to include and looks juvenile. You think he looks cute or something?
Perhaps he meant the advantage of control, I think the advantage is multiplied like crazy with scalability of the OS. I to think (we like him) is a poor delivery.
Then, the idea of "dominating" app availability. A reasonable goal, to be sure. But one surefire way to help here is to stop letting execs promise thousands and TENS of thousands of apps available at launch, then claim you have 300 ready a week before launch. Expectations are a significant part of this game.
yeah, and "Apps Catalogue" bullet in the officially-themed TP page on Carphonewarehouse, claiming 15000 apps at launch... It is just BAD, stupid thing to do.
http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/ipad-and-tablets/hp-touchpad
Ceterum censeo: Where is the Pre 3 ?
still trying to get netflix, that means it wont be there for launch, I was hoping atleast it was in works, but they are still trying to woo netflix.
Actually it will available "in the coming weeks" after launch. Just be patient.
what happend to all the apps - the HP engineers were developing? I thought they had truck loads of internal people (Didn't Phil mention that) developing thousands of applications?
This is what I was talking about above. How many feet can a major corporation get into its mouth at the same time?
Unfortunately, they were all Flatulence or Flashlight apps.
(Apparently, the censors to not like the f-word, you know, f-a-r-t.)
when are you going to fix the mobile site so that i can post comments from my pre- running 1.4.5????????
After all the app talk over the past six months or so, 300 apps is pretty pathetic.
Remember, tho....unlike iOS and Android, these are all quality. Just like the 6K currently in the app catalog are 6,000 of the best around.
Even the eBook spam on WebOS is better than competing platforms. So raw numbers matter not.
I've read every spam ebook, and have loved them all!
That's all well and good, but you're not going to get many purchasers, especially for a new ecosystem, with the current form factors. Where's the thin, light tablet? Where's the 4 inch, slate phone? The current Touchpad form factor is equivalent to the first gen iPad and Android (Xoom), thick, heavy and unwieldy. webOS is clearly superior as an OS goes, but the hardware is clearly lacking. Your non-fanboy consumer isn't even going to consider these unsexy form factors. HP needs to get out their second gen hardware ASAP, no matter how hard the first gen fails.
While it's always nice to hear words from the people upstairs, it's getting close to launch and it smells like confusion. It's not _tight_ enough, this whole TouchPad effort. And from HP, the most awesomemest computer company in the whole wide world who sells 20 dying, mediocre PCs every second according their billions of claims. 300 is good, but judging from the leaks that we've seen, 300 of those apps _need_ to be all bigwig names, but they will not be. You will get your background apps, your calculator apps, but what you really need is big, big name apps. Kind of like what WP7 did before its launch. They hustled, they really did, and with the exeception of Angry Birds, they had an impressive showing of players at launch and it only got better from there.
Let's use the excuse that HP doesn't really know what it's doing yet because it's never had to launch a product of this...caliber. The Savior. Well, let's look at marketing efforts. Subway cars, tweet campaign, Youtube homepage banner--wait, is that for the Veer? The what? Oh, the TouchPad, yeah we are going to start that _after_ the launch, not before. There's nothing to hype up, so why bother, right? Is this an enterprise product? Oh, wow, it has Beats Audio, so it's a consumer product? Huh? What? Well, which one is it? Okay, well, hit all the balls you want and maybe someone will catch it.
WebOS checker on Palm's site no longer says that there will be alternative plans released in the coming weeks. For me it just says my device name.
Does this mean they are not going to make good on the "Make it right" promise?
Why are people voting this down? I would like to know the answer to the question.
I get negatives no matter what I write because I am not a fanboy and I do not wear the rosie-colored glasses that most people here wear.
But yes, it's interesting, I figure they are ones again lying to and Fuc*ing their most loyal users.
Most Android apps run just fine on Honeycomb tablets, even if not optimized for them. So, saying the TouchPad will have more apps available at launch with 300 is disingenuous at best, and patently ignorant at worst. I hope this isn't the kind of research that's driving HP's decision-making process.
Well so long as I can see a good amount of in your face advertising with the tone that they are really taking themselves seriously as the best out there they definitely have a shot. One thing they will have to do is have an aggressive refresh cycle of tech in order to keep the uneducated about WebOS from deciding to go with another phone or tablet because the megapixels on the camera are higher. They really need to make one generation... The next generation od WebOS devices much better than the competition. We are talking a dream list of stats, like th e eve did when it came out. Then if you give everyone an undeniable reason to pick up and buy a WebOS device over the competition just once then they will fall in love with WebOS as many do and then they just need to keep up going forward.
All I know is I want WebOS on everytion I use. It's just to awesome not to succeed.
"(...)to keep the uneducated about WebOS from deciding to go with another phone or tablet because the megapixels on the camera are higher."
What camera? Didn't you read here in the comments, that only idiots would want a camera in their pad?
( :) sorry just couldn't stop meself!)
Are all of your memories really this short-term? HP did the same thing with the Veer, starting up the ads only a while after the release date. Stop getting so excited about the prospect of the launch going badly...
HP is a big company that doesn't have to worry so much about boasting instantly huge sales figures. Unlike a company which is still getting used to the fact it's successful at something (which Apple really wasn't until 5-6 years ago), they have no need to instantly post propaganda. People know HP has been around and will continue to exist. On the other hand, Google's still only a few years into maintaining a hardware platform, and Apple has its "failure-after-failure" history in the 90s. Analysts whisper all the time about whether the success of iOS and Android will last.
Even in the last few weeks everyone's wondering what'll happen to Apple if Steve Jobs leaves. Nobody's whispering about HP suddenly disbanding, it's a whole different game. As a result, they don't have to market themselves so desperately, and have the luxury of actually planning things out and doing things right, in a slow and steady way that actually gets suppliers and support staff acclimated to their new platform in a comfortable way.
Gaining loyalty with retailers by not suddenly dropping products on them at the last second and banning employee vacations (like Apple does) is going to make stores actually want to carry their products, unlike Apple which regularly gets into squabbles with Best Buy and other companies over the silliest of things. HP is building loyalty at every level. Duh!
Try to calm down and think of this "launch date" instead as a "beginning of word-of-mouth advertising" date. Again, HP did the same thing with the Veer - they released a few models to most locales, enough that each loyal Palm nut per area would be able to have one, so that they could spend a few weeks showing them around. Most people don't care about features, they want to see and touch things, so those first few weeks of slow social permeation were actually rather useful. Friends saw devices, friends-of-friends heard about them, and the mass public wound up being a little more aware of the product's existence when the ads started coming out.
I'd say history shows that gently softening a group of people to a concept over time works far better than dropping it on them like a bucket of cold water. HP has the wits and experience that all of these relatively recent companies (and/or companies which only recently stopped hemmoraging money) can't afford to have, and it's wisely using it to forge long-term trust, intelligently ignoring the temptation to instantly boast about first-day sales and then have to deal with several weeks worth of bugs, long lines, fickle users, and other media-circus events.
We are HP's ambassadors. (We are also the only people who give two flips about the precise launch dates of this stuff to begin with.) This launch is for us, not the laymen. It's the day where we can go out, hand HP our money, rave about the product, and serve as a nice pre-show opening act to the rest of their marketing. It wasn't the end of the world when the Veer was launched this way a month ago, it won't be the end of the world now.
The fact that HP doesn't find it necessary to start a "launch-day cult" like Apple does is a *good* thing, it means the people who dislike Apple's intense heavy-handed marketing approach will see our little camp as a breath of fresh air.
Yep, HP is "Old Reliable". It's like the song goes, "Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years."
That's why HP is planning for a marathon.
"That's why HP is planning for a marathon."
Unfortunately for HP, so is everyone else.
Wait, really? Are you telling me that Android, iOS, and Windows Phone 7 are ALSO backed by hundreds of millions, way more developers, devices sold on the same carriers at the same pricepoints, and long-term visions?!?!
Noooooooooooooooo..........
"That's why HP is planning for a marathon"
yep. They are planning. And planning. And then planning some more. And then they change their plans ("oopsie, sorry, legacy users - change of plans!")
And then, they finally arrive at the start line of that marathon, (yay!) when all other contenders are already far on the horizon. Only to realize, they cannot run that far on crutches (crippled, limited specification and functionality pad), and pretend they are top-level athlete (price). Oh wait, and little later they realize, they not only moving slow, but also moving in the wrong direction! (PHONES first, not pads, please! REAL, PRODUCTIVE smartphones, and not cute toys, please! Everyone else does it, and they are doing pretty well).
OMG, it is going to be a looooong run, to chase everyone else up! RUN, and not casual stroll at your leisure, you dig that, HP?
If these are your hallmarks of "success" (soft launches, not caring about sales, spending hundreds of millions on celebrities to only reach existing WebOS fans), then no one wishes HP well moreso than Apple, Microsoft, Google, Samsung, HTC.....
"HP is a big company that doesn't have to worry so much about boasting instantly huge sales figures."
Oh no, they DO have to worry about boasting huge sales figures ASAP, they should have been worried ten times more than any other leading competitor.
Stating otherwise, is only admitting how clueless you are about what drives the snowball effect and runaway train of technology.
glennbeck you should have known what right out of the gate. they are too busy trying to get netflix to make an app for the touchpad. maybe thats how they intend on making things right. i wonder if hbo go is in the talks as well. that alone would sell my wife into it. she would be able to see her true blood and thats all she cares about as of june 26th
I still think that it's garbage to say that PCs will be running webos. It just doesn't make sense for them to do that. What will Microsoft do? The biggest indicator was that in windows 8 they moved to HTML and CSS. helllooooo. the HP bigwigs just want you to have that utopian grand vision of every PC being exposed to webos and it just isn't there.
For me the device is about having portable browser, calendar, and e-mail. I don't have an e-reader either so I will probably use the Touchpad for that as well. Things that I will use 95% of the time. I would imagine this probably true for most people.
For editing documents or spreadsheets I can use either google docs or the Live Office through hotmail, so not having an app to do these things seems irrelevant.
I would like to see an HBO GO app as well as netflix but those are not deal breakers for me.
I have a pre plus on att. I don't care about hp making things right. I plan on buying a pre3 when it comes out. I don't use netflix. I don't use google docs. I currently have 1 app on my phone...angry birds. Which I rarely play. I don't have a use for a banking app. I use the website! My point is that there are some people, even if a small percentage, that only want a touchpad or pre line of phone because of what web os has to offer. By the way, micah912 is annoying.
I'm really rooting for the HP Touchpad but i'm kinda fearful it won't do so hot. for one the construction of the device isn't that solid. secondly, the app catalog only having 300 is really sad and the fact that Netflix wasn't a launch partner... that's really horrible. specially since he said we are trying to get them to join by offering promotional advertising for your app? I mean come on! PAY THEM!!! YOU NEED NETFLIX TO SUCCEED RIGHT NOW!!! and last but of course not least. It really worries me that they hadn't sent out any review units to tech bloggers to get the NEEDED hype up. Makes me wonder if there is something they fear about the Touchpad that they don't want getting released before the item launches. I'm really hoping that this is all oversight because i WANT one SOOO BAD!!!! Again though, I really feel like they might miss the target with this one. I really hope the Touchpad2 is actually ahead of the game rather than trying to match what came out w/ the iPad a year ago. that was a mistake. *fingers crossed for friday* I've been waiting for this tablet since it was rumored.
One of Apple's core issues for me began with launching exclusively on a poor network. I may have had a bigger issue with reception than many. It's not Apples fault. I think I'm a little bitter from that issue and it stems from not having options that worked for everyone. I would likely have a iPad right now if they where not so tight with ATT with the iPhone.
Besides the ease of use, WebOS's advantage is the synergy and integration with the phone. Ever since winter, HP has been loosing dedicated WOSians like flies... because of not providing them a phone that worked on Sprint... Where they started and hold their biggest fan base.
My original Pre has been on it's last leg for months... and if I have to replace it... It will be a couple of years before I'm back. Apple gets that "Most Contracts end in 2 years.... Maybe we should have a phone for them when the contract ends." I'm a die hard WOSian... but it doesn't matter how hard I die... when I'm dead.
If HP really want's to beat Apple. They really need a phone on every major carrier in the coming months. Just saturating the market like Android does... with all phones that can be upgraded for at least a year an a half. (Do this and apps will show up.)
They can't putz around like they have or their market will stall and we will be saying "The Amiga, Betamax, HDDVD, and WebOS where the best electronics in their class... but..."
Apps make the platform. I can see why everyone is saying the Galaxy Tab 10.1 will kill the Touchpad because of so-and-so spec, but the fact is that it still doesn't have very many tablet apps. Smartphone apps on a tablet generally don't provide as good an experience as tablet apps. If HP is saying that the Touchpad will launch with more tablet apps than Android currently has, that will be a strong argument to persuade people to buy Touchpad over Galaxy Tab 10.1. Google's had a head start of several months, and all they have to show for it is several dozen tablet apps. With the Touchpad launching with many, many more tablet apps, if they can maintain a higher rate of tablet app growth than Android, then HP will secure the #2 spot in the tablet space.
I`m getting tired of hearing about the TouchPad and not more about phones.So what the veer is out.They have`nt said much about that either. Only in commercials..I don`t care if they are trying to expand WebOS. The fact of the matter is if they don`t have phones to sell with WebOS I don`t think it`s going to work out. More and more people are getting into the smartphone market and the tablet market is more unfamiliar to consumers.I see all these interviews even before the veer was released and they were just talking about the TouchPad okay they talked about phones but only when it came to them working with the TP.They ddint speak long about phone period.
Oh hey, isn`t that funny. 300 apps at launch yet they figured people wouldn`t want one of those to be a youtube app.
Dear Pre-Central. Please use whatever clout you have to communicate to HP that despite this gigantic (and awesome) push to carve out a place in the tablet wars.... they are still failing on a critical piece, which is to provide widely available phones which are a natural gateway for wanting the tablet. It is no accident whatsoever that the iPhone came first, many years before the iPad.
Yes, I know the Pre 3 is coming, but by not announcing (and delivering) on solid dates, HP is hurting their own chances of success. Even worse, the modest-but-vocal # of people they have left essentially abandoned on Sprint can either prove to be the best and most effective evangelists of their ecosystem, or the strongest and most bitter detractors, depending on how spurned they feel by being left out in the cold for a phone upgrade after waiting for 2 years. Right now, this group is very much tilting towards the latter rather than the former.
The Touchpad is an amazing piece of hardware. But the buy in for apps, hardware, and accessories for a first generation tablet is way to high - especially when compared to people who already invested in the iOS ecosystem (hardware, itunes, accessories, apps). I can neither justify the price as a developer or user at this point!
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