TouchPad Go given more time in front of the lens, still the object of our rare gadget lust | webOS Nation
 
 

TouchPad Go given more time in front of the lens, still the object of our rare gadget lust 104

by Derek Kessler Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:12 am EST

It just hurts to look. We’ve seen the seven-inch HP TouchPad Go crop up here and there, but nowhere near everywhere, or in our longing hands. Over the current TouchPad, the Go packs a 1.5GHz processor (only available in the limited-release White TouchPad), GPS and cellular data (only available in the unreleased AT&T TouchPad 4G), and a 5MP camera that appears to have been lifted from the HP Pre3. In addition, it sports a just-as-thick but flatter design, a primary landscape orientation, and an oh-we-want-it-so soft-touch back. Apart from that, it’s a TouchPad, right down to the pixel count and aspect ratio (though on a smaller 7-inch panel). Over at Chinese gadget blog Palmjoy they got some extended camera-on time with the TouchPad Go, and while there’s not much more to say, we still desperately want one.

More photos after the break, and plenty more at the source.

Source: Palmjoy; Via: Engadget

104 Comments

Man, sad to see webOS go cause of an idiot named Leo

This one dosen't really do it for me. I love my TP and I love the size, if fact it could be about an inch bigger for my tastes. Still it's a waste though.

My sentiments precisely!

I can't imagine having a gratifying tablet experience on a smaller screen than the TouchPad's 9.7" one. Why in the world would I lust over a 7" screen device?

No thanks. I'd have never even given this product a 1st thought (much less a 2nd one) if it had made it to market.

Why are these pictures coming out three months after that decision ?
It tells me that Meg Whitman might want to continue the tablets business.

Or that there are a ton of these sitting in a warehouse in China.

They should release them!! They'd sell them so fast!!

It takes a lot more than just planting these devices on their website to sell all these that very well may be sitting in a warehouse somewhere. First, they have to support what they sell. Perhaps the build quality was worse than the TouchPad, or maybe even the original Pre- (I know, that would be difficult). Second, launching a product takes more than just amking them available if they want to sell more than just a handful -- even at firesale prices. Lastly, they can probably save more money by writing these off as a business loss than they can by selling at firesale prices.

"First, they have to support what they sell."
ekhem, ekhem... are we talking about HP/webOS here?

It must be the build quality then. A Touchpad-branded product at firesale prices will sell out.

people have said that about every webos devices ever released. Other then the first three weeks of the original pre launch is hasn't happened. And even with the original pre, an initial surge with the pre, people stopped buying them and that was a big problem.

My gut is that just like the other devices this is something that mostly only the palm fans would buy in droves.

And i'm not talking about at some cut rate price that has them losing another 300 million. I mean at a profit. if its gonna eat up 70+% of of PSG's profits i can't say the "should" release any product.

Yea. Especially if they bundle them with a laptop so that we can spend around $600 for a laptop and a useless tablet for which their are how many apps?

I doubt it. Though I am optimistic. I want to buy one.

Even if they had a few hundred thousands sitting that's dead inventory. I doubt how HP will sell them with no carrier providing support for these.

World ready units?

If Meg wanted to truly continue the tablet business she should have flooded the market with the second production run of Touchpads at the "firesale" prices and built a solid base and real buzz upon which to build.

If she needed to through some cookies to the retail channel to sooth ruffled feathers she should have just given them all some hefty trade credits rather than distribute the 2nd production run of Touchpads as value add-ons.

To what end?

There're two parts to "tablet business".

The second part - BUSINESS - means that they are in this to make money, and Touchpads do not make money. WebOS phones do not make money.

They would have to sell hundreds of dollars worth of apps on EVERY tablet just to come close to breaking even at these firesale prices. They didn't get that kind of app sellthrough with the phones, so how could they expect it to get it from people who only bought the tablets because they were cheap?

There's another dimension to the meaning of the word BUSINESS, that you (along with HP's decision makers) seem to be incapable of getting along with, and it is called TAKING RISKS. Especially when you have a new (and yes, still underdeveloped in some areas) contender, trying to assault the existing leaders.

It does not come cheap, nor easy, nor quick. And it is a SURE way to be in red with that product for a while, for the POTENTIAL FUTURE benefits.

Something that doesn't show in unit cost vs. item price "analysis". So please, pretty please, spare us your ubiquitous "they do not break even" refrain, we really KNOW that, and it is GRANTED they won't, at least for a good while.

Ok, what are the potential future benefits?

I keep waiting for somebody...ANYBODY.....to explain this.

Taking risks implies that a big reward awaits if you play it correctly. What's the big reward? They don't own ANY content providers, nor intend to. The HP Movie Store is simply a rebadged RoxioNow content store. They have no music content. They have no magazine content. All of these are provided via third parties. Their only ancillary streams of income are accessories and apps.

Even for market leaders like Apple or Google, this is a drop in the bucket of their income. The vast majority of billions that they earn per quarter comes from DEVICE PROFIT (Apple) and Google.com and AdSense revenue (Google). Apple just announced in October they paid THREE billion to developers since the dawn of the App Store, which they got 30 percent (or less than a billion dollars) from. iPad sales alone in just three MONTHS dwarf that figure. Nevermind iPhone sales. If HP got that much in app sales over 4-5 years (it took Apple just over three years), that wouldn't even cover the purchase price of Palm, and they continue to lose money on each device sold at these discounted rates!

That would be figuratively burning money.

Simply put, there is NO ONE in the market today banking like crazy from app and accessory royalties. Not Apple. Not Google. And never HP.

I defy you to show me how this could work.

...devices? I mean, like, FUTURE devices? Enterprise contracts/services/bundles (only AFTER they demonstrated they can survive in the marketplace, Enterprise sector will not buy on a whim)?

Their first and only priority for a time being should be broadening user base/app portfolio, from day one.

Thus, going a little bit off the beaten track (high release price, to bank on "early adopters", known as "suckers" otherwise, followed by the price reduction/s) would be in order, and starting the (completely, utterly mishandled) TP launch with prices, and HUGE communication EVERYWHERE, something along these lines:

"FOR LIMITED TIME ONLY! TP 16GB(regular price: $450), now for $350! Grab it while it lasts"

Do the same bundles they are doing NOW, give it for fecking free/steal with HP laptops, do the same for Pre 3 on contracts. That would bring some interest, don't you think? Can you imagine the reviews summaries, in such a parallel universe? The all-important sale-through figures, following, on which more cautious users/developers would build their perception of webOS' chances of survival, thus viability of investment?

Stop doing this whenever suits. Start making profits. I have yet to see a SINGLE PERSON who would be disappointed with webOS UX/functionality (empty app store aside, but if webOS was getting some traction, that would improve on its own)

They did temporary $100 off coupons, and then had $200 off with the Staples coupon bundle.

They had them on installment payment plans with QVC.

They permanently dropped the price to $399 (apparently a price point which would've lost them only more money according to the CFO).

NONE of them made a lick of difference. It just lost more and more money. They couldn't sell it for a profit no matter what they tried. So they gave up...WISELY.

You say "start making profits", but don't give them any way to do so. Giving it away with bundles is losing money. Cutting the prices further is losing money.

All of the other companies they're trying to sell it to that are publicly dismissing them (e.g. HTC, Samsung, Qualcomm) can see that. HP could see that, which is why they stopped in the first place.

Two companies and several billion dollars have been thrown at trying to sell these devices for a profit. It's a money pit.

you deliberately don't want to understand what I wrote, is that right?

I usually do not write explanations to my previous posts, I am assuming my writing is plain enough, but I will make an exception for you this time: I wrote "start making profits", just after "stop doing _this_" ("_this_" being bundles, limited time initial price offer etc).

You don't want to see a HUGE difference of "temporarily" selling something at loss, and then getting the price "back" up, when being comfortable that webOS is doing well in the marketplace, is getting recognition and the outlook is positive, vs. starting with ridiculously high prices, and then reducing them incoherently in panic here and there (OMG! What a disaster, "we have a better product", yet it doesn't sell! How could be?) without ANY COMMUNICATION to customers. Of course, every sane person would sit and wait.

And of course you are repeating your "permanent $400" price reduction hiccup, I am just sick and tired how many times you got the answer that at that price (again, NOWHERE to be communicated), it lasted only one week, until fire sale.

And of course, another universal refrain of yours, "two companies and billions of dollars, blahblahblah....". And why bother and try to understand the REASONS behind these figures. Which you are denying every time to be bothered with, so I guess I am done in this topic with you.

Dude, their coupon sales were broadcast or "communicated" across the Internet at Fatwallet and Slickdeals, and from what I remember, sales were brisk. People knew, so this rationale is laughable.

When the coupons stopped...so did the sales!

It's so odd that you don't realize that "the ridiculously high prices" they started at where the only price points at which they were set up to make a profit from these devices. They don't have the supply chain advantage of ordering parts in the tens of millions years in advance that Apple has. In fact, being the ONLY company using the same 9.7-inch IPS displays Apple did was a DISadvantage in that area.

But yeah...you should probably be done with this topic. I love how everyone on these boards has the vision to see the "goldmine" of WebOS, but the concrete steps to get there consist of doing the exact same thing HP was doing before, but charging less while spending more on materials and promotion. Brilliant!

It's funny to see YOU two arguing.

The only reason for them to take a loss on hardware would be to build a customer base and make a market for developers. They could then start increasing margins once the ecosystem started adding value for the customers.

Taking this strategy would take at least a year to work. A few coupons or temporary price cuts wouldn't do it.

Maybe it wouldn't work at all - I had assumed HP had run the numbers and was taking that strategy, why else would they buy Palm? Now we all know it was just plain old incompetence.

HP's motto is "HP Invent". But aside from being an innovator in the printer arena, they've always been a copycat in the hardware and software worlds, and an accomplished commodity broker. Watching them "build" a customer base while handling a superior product in the wireless world, was painful. Thinking they could stick a price on something, advertise the heck out of it, then rake in the cash, was foolish. Phones are a necessity, tablets a luxury, they never had a foundation to build on and they pissed off their customers and carriers in the process. They didn't have the insight to do it right. And they didn't have the balls or stomach to do it wrong for more than a few weeks. Sad.

Thank you Drew & PreDogs, these are exactly my thoughts. Many of us assumed that HP knew how big of a task they were undertaking, when purchased Palm. We were wrong. They were incompetent & arrogant enough to think, that they will just release TouchPads the same way they release dozens of PCs/Laptops every year, slap some Apple-esque price tag on them, and everything else will click in place on its own.

HP definitely didn't "run the numbers" or do any research into this market before blundering in and **** up and Apotheker has to take the blame for that. There was no way they were going to enter the Tablet market, return to the smartphone market, and in one fell swoop with little effort, gain any traction. Plenty of Android Tablet makers made the same mistake of pricing their tablets at Apple price tags and expecting them to fly off shelves but it didn't happen. The first thing that Whitman should have done is attempt to regain the loyalty of WebOS customers by doing exactly what HP said it would do- Sell us the Touchpads at fire sale prices. Would they lose money? Yes, but getting those Touchpads into the hands of WebOS users would have gotten the attention of developers who would have seen an installed user base to develop apps for. While a hand full of people may be crazy or stupid enough to buy a full fledged laptop and a Touchpad on the premise that Tigeridirect.com will give them a rebate in a reasonable time frame, I seriously doubt they "sold out in three minutes". A week ago they were trying to sell a Touchpad bundle no one wanted and claimed to have "sold out". Now, with no new stock produced, suddenly, they have more Touchpads to sell in a bundle? It won't work. This was not the way to inspire WebOS loyalty. Kindle is going to eat HP's lunch with the Kindle Fire, The Nook Tablet will clean up the rest, meanwhile, Amazon and Ebay are still full of Touchpads going for less than these pathetic bundles and they aren't moving from there either. Way to go Whitman.

jerrydan (three posts above):
"They did temporary $100 off coupons, and then had $200 off with the Staples coupon bundle.(...)
NONE of them made a lick of difference. "

jerrydan (one post above, 47 minutes later):
"Dude, their coupon sales were broadcast or 'communicated' (...) and from what I remember, sales were brisk."

Dude :). No comments, as promised - just quotes from the master of in-depth analysis himself :)

Of course you would leave off that I said "When the coupons stopped, so did the sales", which easily reconciles the two statements.

That is why you couldn't find one at Staples when they were $300 (an unsustainable price point) nor could you find anyone to purchase any of Best Buy's 200k plus Touchpad inventory when they were $499, then $399.

I realize rational analysis is hard for you, but come on....

Showing someone else your TP and having them say "Wow, that's cool" is a far cry from getting them to buy one and keep one. There are warehouses full of consumer electronics that would satisfy most users yet they still fail.

How can you put the "empty app store aside" anyway? Is that a joke?

"How can you put the "empty app store aside" anyway? Is that a joke?"

qoute:
"(empty app store aside, but if webOS was getting some traction, that would improve on its own)"

Did you read the whole sentence? There's your answer, just after "the joke", like you put it.

webOS devices ver. current HAD TO BE A STEAL offer for end users to catch on. Only after they were a very good value, and it was slapped in people's face, consumers would took the risks of buying into (maybe cool, but) exotic OS/ecosystem.

Only after that, developers would follow. No marketing/developers relationship stunts can convince anyone more than the real trend in the marketplace (and this is actually why developer relationship at HPalm COULD NOT POSSIBLY succeeded, regardless resources spent - for all the blunders they were making acrross the board, no amount of sugarcoating would help).

And after developers would follow, app store would fill with apps to a degree, that it would be a viable option. Not a "number one plus", but VIABLE OPTION.

It really is quite simple. If they did the right things in the first place (which they obviously haven't), instead of doing one idiotic thing after another, and then paddling against the tide, and spending hundreds of millions on that.

What does it matter if developers followed?

Again, Apple has - BY FAR - the most successful and developer-supported online app store in existence. They have GROSSED - not netted, but grossed - less than ONE billion dollars in profit from it after more than three years of operation.

Google's Android App Market - which is far less successful, but exponentially more successful than WebOS ever would be - makes a fraction of that.

WebOS, in turn, would make a fraction of that.

So you're banking loss leading or at cost device pricing on recouping, maybe, what...one or two hundred million on the back end in five years? They had NO other income streams for WebOS.

I think the idea would be that they could increase margins on hardware once there were enough developers to make WebOS an attractive platform.
The Touchpad hardware isn't that great, they could come out with premium hardware in the next generation that has better margins.

Kind of like Palm did with the Palm III to Palm V. Palm would never have taken off if the first model was priced as high as the Palm V. It took a few rounds of Model-T style devices before they could build a premium device.

Honestly...who has a business model of setting a price level then only achieving profit with increasing price above that level?

Every iPhone gets more "premium", yet the launch price stays the same then only DROPS. And this is from a company that CAN command price premiums and customer loyalty. Same for each iPad iteration.

Samsung redesigned the Galaxy Tab 10.1 to be thinner and more "premium", yet the price point remained identical to the iPad as they always intended it to. Their Galaxy S II had a bigger and more advanced tech screen tech than the Galaxy S. Same price.

People would expect future Touchpad devices - no matter how much more Premium - to be at the same price points the current ones are. The only product in this industry I've seen inch upward in terms of pricing is LTE phones at Verizon commanding at $100 premium over non-LTE ones, and they get outsold right and left by their cheaper counterparts, especially the the iPhone 4 and 4S. AT&T isn't charging as much for their LTE smartphones (HTC Vivid, Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket).

I agree it would be difficult and risky. Maybe impossible. But I also think it was HPs only hope.

Other companies have used low cost products to enter a market, then increased margins and prices with premium products. Japanese cars come to mind.

HP pricing the hardware with a healthy margin from the beginning guaranteed failure.

Well, it works when you have a product people want like the Samsung Galaxy Tabs and Galaxy S and S2 family of phones. Samsung is making some pretty sweet amounts of money there, per their financials. HTC is doing the exact same....with phones, at least.

Not only could neither HP nor Palm seem to design a heavily-lusted after (other than for firesale price reasons) device, but WebOS itself largely retarded this because it was never coded to fully take advantage of device GPUs or have a native software keyboard on the phones or really support landscape orientation across the OS.

Spot on - and no amount of jingoism about 'potential future benefits' is going to change it. HP might have thought they had some kind of ecosystem in development with webOS but I think they very quickly realised it was all smoke and mirrors.

Apple, Google and Microsoft have the firepower to blow everybody else away - and only Amazon has a chance against those three (but they've yet to demonstrate they could actually make any money on those millions of Fire tablets sold).

Meg Whitman would be laughed out the room if she said HP were going to invest more billions into webOS.

That said, this 7" tablet looks great - it is the perfect form factor for a 7 incher. Those widescreen 7" tablets don't work for me.

"Apple, Google and Microsoft have the firepower (...)"
...and where was Apple's firepower before they have released an iPod, THEN it's logical follow-up, an iPhone, THEN it's logical follow-up, an iPad?

HP could easily start at the phone step above (both the potential market & benefits are much much broader/bigger than tablets), and then go to tablets. Or release them together with a robust phone, ie Pre 3. Releasing a tablet as a supposed flagship device, for an OS that is already struggling in the marketplace, (and mostly, because there weren't good enough devices available)? Well it is a sure way to generate loss. They got precisely what they asked for.

Once again spouting false rhetoric there Jerry. Again, (for the umpteenth time) the 16 & 32gb TouchPads were the NUMBER TWO and NUMBER SEVEN **BEST SELLING** tablets on Amazon.com at $299 and $399. Only the Transformer sold more (yes, it outsold iPad for that period)

Leo Apothefailure killed all that moments two weeks later with just over a month on the market and less than a week after 3.0.2 which addressed all of the complaints raised at launch. Cost him his job too (golden parachute notwithstanding)

Try....uh, facts. Maybe truth. It's good for you, I promise. ;)

-CK

So your hypothesis is that HP, one of the largest hardware companies in the world didn't understand their sales numbers killed the TP? Good luck with that. I'm sure they had better metrics than the Amazon.com best sellers list you are basing your claim on.

"So your hypothesis is that HP, one of the largest hardware companies in the world didn't understand their sales numbers killed the TP"

...my general hypothesis, confirmed with plenty of evidence from HP's clueless acts and statements, is that yes, "the largest PC manufacturer in the world" has their heads deep up their arses, with regards to mobile computing market, and with regards to what was needed to promote webOS and to make profit out of it.

No, they realized after a month of crappy sales EXACTLY what was needed to make profit out of WebOS - selling it ASAP and/or turning into a giveaway for their computers.

The devices themselves will never be profitable (unless you are an eBay reseller). Many (Palm, HP, a kazillion different retailers and carriers) have tried to disprove that....all have failed.

"No, they realized after a month of crappy sales EXACTLY what was needed (...)"
...so unfortunate, they were not able to realize WHY the sales were crappy, I guess asking them to understand the mechanics behind the simplest arithmetic is as impossible task as asking you for the same.

"(...) to make profit out of WebOS - selling it ASAP and/or turning into a giveaway for their computers."
...yep, they are making a helluva profit out of it, your are right as always.

Speaking of facts, let's check the Amazon bestselling list right now:

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Computer-Tablets/zgbs/ele...

Oh look...starting at just $223 - NOT $399 - the Touchpad 32GB is at number three.Starting at $213 - NOT $299 - the 16GB is at number 13.

Neither price is one at which HP would do anything but lose hundreds of millions. If you think Apotheker's actions on WebOS cost him anything, you're living in dreamland.

Meg Whitman reversed the PC spinoff ASAP, and HP never stopped selling computers for a day. They killed off Touchpads as separate items ASAP, kept what's left of 'em as computer bundles, and fired a huge amount of WebOS employees. All supported by the current BOD including Meg Whitman who seems rather comfortable in her job.

There I go with those pesky facts again. You are beyond dense.

It's funny how stupid some of these webOS zealots can be.

I remember you asking Derek about his claim that "insane profits" could be had at the end. He couldn't answer you. They keep saying this **** but have no clue.

Apple relies on brand equity and ecosystem to enjoy huge profit margins. HP doesn't have years to build brand equity and certainly is adverse to spending what it would take to build any ecosystem.

There's no reward at the end of the idiotic notion of building up a base (and losing big time) by giving away Touchpads.

HP is a company that simply got confused about what business it's in. Happens all the time out there. WebOS will go down as a huge blunder.

"Apple relies on brand equity and ecosystem to enjoy huge profit margins."
...and they got there overnight, I got you.

"HP doesn't have years to build brand equity"
...well, then HP is in troubles, because if they don't (and I agree with you, they won't), then Asusteks of this world will eat them alive, "in the comings years" (probably not months).

"and certainly is adverse to spending what it would take to build any ecosystem."
yes, but I would add to that, that they apparently have no clue how to get this thing rolling, as even more important factor than being adverse to spend. They just don't know HOW to spend these dollars, to make a good marketing mileage out of them.

"There's no reward at the end of the idiotic notion of building up a base (and losing big time) by giving away Touchpads."

Repeat this until you learn it.

...there were SO many things that HPalm could/should do differently, to make webOS a success. Selling devices ver. current at break-even prices was but one thing of many, that they failed to grasp. But if you don't know this by now, there's a little sense in trying to convince you.

Oh and BTW, keep your orders for your mommy, or dog, or whomever cares about you.

that's one thing if you're giving a way heroine and creating addicts. Giving away tablets to people that aren't willing to pay full price for your device doesn't remotely mean, you'll somehow profit off of them later on.

i think it's easy to say just sell it, just take losses when people have no accountability. webos fans are not realistic from a business sense because most of the suggestions for how to make it profitable are not realistic. Its not an xbox where you sell games too. It's not an kindle where you sell 10 dollar books. and have people locked in. a product has to make a profit. period. and i don't see a path to profitability that's remotely grounded in reality at this point.

"Giving away tablets to people that aren't willing to pay full price for your device (...)"
first, I think it is in many ways similiar to these "heroine addicts" - in case of a system, that naver had too much of a brand recognition, you can spend loads of money on Russel Brand and whatever else ads, or you can spend a lot of money subsidizing it's sales, and thus getting it into people's hands. Spend a lot of money to ensure you are working closely and getting feedback from influential bloggers, long before release, get them into your boat. I'd definitely go with spending money on getting it into people's hands and influencing influential people.

"and i don't see a path to profitability that's remotely grounded in reality at this point."
certainly not at this point. I think even in the summmer, there were slim chances of success, but now?? Zero-to-minus.

But breaking even for manufacturing costs on current devices, was the best HP could hope for in 2011, at that stage, if they were about to save webOS for the future (and POSSIBLE future profits, from new, better devices, with an app store that would consist of more than three retarded apps, with some real consumer and developer traction).

Yep....that's the future Best Buy was banking on when they told HP to come get their junk out of their warehouses.

They could practically smell the (im)possible future profits.

I wrote off HP before the TP was released, when the price was leaked. I posted here that it was DOA if it was over $300.
It was dead as soon as HP put a $500 price on it.

It was DOA when HP realized they couldn't sell it for a profit. Dropping the price is just introducing a price ceiling they can't go above even if they make a future iteration better.

You ever see Apple try to climb back to the $599 (WITH subsidy) launch price of the iPhone even though it's the most popular device on the planet?

They did, by adding a bigger screen and calling it the iPad 3G. :)

You've got to be kidding me!

I get furious-er every minute!

Is this a nightmare or what????

If there's a ton of these in a warehouse somewhere, someone really needs to sell em. I mean, what a waste! Tell you what, I'll take them off whoevers hands they are in now as a favour, no quibble, no returns, I'll even give a few quid for them! Just send me an email (robert.woods@shop-pc.co.uk)!

Of course, if you happen to be reading this Meg, you could just start selling them through the HP site, ebay and other reputable stores! Come on, this is a killer device!

I'd definitely buy one, but HP'd better release it quickly, with more quad-core Tegra 3 tablets being announced daily, the Touchpad's old dual-core processor may just not pack enough oomph to compete with the modern tablets.

i was going to wait around for one of these, instead had to go crazy and get a 32gb tp at fire sale price. I was lucky to get 1, but man the GO is way more suited to what I wanted... Stupid LEO abandoning a good thing before it got going...

Is it cheating on a girl to lust and maybe get a little turned on over pictures of unreleased gadgets?

No. However it IS lame.

Didn't think I had any interest in a 7" (I have a regular ol' TouchPad), but the GPS makes me reconsider. This is a pretty awesome thing. Sigh.

Supposedly these things come with a free Navigon license too.

That doesn't make any sense to me either. It seems like someone would be saling the devices still locked up in the warehouse. That touch pad looks awful bulky.
www.geekchoice.com

Fantastic looking device. HP could compromise and put Windows 8 and webOS on it in a dualboot if they are still unsecure about webOS.

This thing is so awesome! The best webOS hardware is always the stuff that hasn't been released yet or was never released.

Well sure, unreleased products can't start falling apart after a week.

That is so nice. Love the GPS and camera. I would love this thing for the train commute. Mucho better than a stand alone Kindle. All HP has to do is make a TouchPad II that is lighter and thinner and they are set. I'll take this in the meantime. I love this screen ratio and design. webOS has been running smooth as butter on my TouchPad. Let's get some Netflix action too.

It makes me sad to see this device end up in the webOS graveyard.

Had HP stuck it out a little longer and released the TouchPad Go as scheduled - September or October, I think it might have made a real difference:

1) The GO has most of what the TP was criticized for lacking - speed, rear camera, gps, soft touch back.

2) The GO would have shipped with a newer webOS, v3.0.2 or higher, compared to what the TP shipped with. Reviews of webOS on the GO would have been much more positive compared to the buggy pre-release version on the TP.

3) The GO would have been released with a much larger app catalog than the TP had at launch - again, more positive reviews.

4) All these more positive reviews for the GO would have effectively been second-chance reviews for the original TouchPad, since the improvements in webOS and app availability would have applied to the TP too.

5) Not everyone wanted a full size ~10" tablet. The minute I first read about the GO I knew I would not buy the TP until at least being able to try both the 10" and 7" models side-by-side. To this day, I still believe the GO would have been the better fit for me, and I have a 10" TP only because the GO was canceled.

6) The GO and original TP would have carried webOS into the holiday buying season. How could HP properly judge sales with the holiday buying season just around the corner?

I'm not sure "speed" is something they could claim, most of us who have our TP's at 1.5 still complain about speed.

HP wasn't judging sales. They were judging their ability to sell these devices at a profit because that is the only way anyone in this industry makes money. Apple has four percent of the total cellphone marketshare, but more than 50 percent of the profits!

Nobody is making money selling devices as loss leaders (what you think HTC Watch, Google Movies or the Samsung Media Hub are profitable?). The most successful manufacturers are the ones who can charge the most for their devices for the longest time, hence why the top three cellphones STILL (more than 15 months after each device's debut) are the iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, and HTC Evo 4G. Samsung's Galaxy S and S2 variants have routine occupied the number four and five slots.

For HP to sell these devices at cost or at a loss would be suicide. It's a loss leader for what...app sales? Apple has over 120 million iOS devices and 18 billion downloads and they've barely approached ONE billion dollars in royalties for themselves in over three years. HP's wildest dreams might see them achieve a third of that. You would spend billions and cement a profit-free business for the promise of $300 million? That's just crazy talk.

I'd probably rather have this over my 10" version. Who wants to trade ;)

Why didn't they make this(TouchpadGo) instead of the touchpad? Hp has done a crappy job when it comes too webOS.They releasd the veer instead of the pre 3 and a slab phone.Then the touchpad with that stupid back instead of the TouchPadGo. So many dumb choices.Then they added two cameras!! Really,they couldn't do that on the 10' TouchPad?

The Kindle Fire is proof that this could have been a game changer because it the Fire not being touted as an ipad killer like the Touchpad was. It is purely a content gateway much like your cable box is connected to your tv.

The TP GO and the Touchpad could have been the same concept if pricing for the device and content was on par with the Fire. Couple that with Beats Audio and webOS would have been an easy sell. (WHY WASN'T BEATS AUDIO PRINTED ON THE F'N TOUCHPAD?!!!!)

If HP looked at webOS devices as a gateway to HP Movies and Music then it makes sense, but both the devices and the movies were marked too high to compete.

HP Movies need to be a monthly service like Amazon and Netflix, and or make movies affordable. $5 is too much for 24 hour viewing. They should be $.99 just like Red Box and bam! I would watch a movie at least 3-4 times per week and the kids would watch 2-3 per weekend.
Add more content services to the device and watch residual profits grow exponentially.

Sigh.

The Kindle Fire has nothing to do with the Touchpad Go. One is a content consumption device that is essentially a vending machine for Amazon products that YOU pay for.

The other could have functioned as a content consumption device, but only for (Waaaay more limited) content that HP doesn't own and can't profit from.

HP has no Amazon Prime. HP Movies is property of RoxioNow, not HP. HP has no music store. No book store. No magazine store. No comic book store. They are not a content company. The only consumer product they have to sell is computers and printers, and they are using Touchpads to spur those sales with cheap bundling already.

Just hitting a $250 price point with a 7-inch tablet doesn't equal GAME changer. If you don't believe me, watch the new Nook "tablet" sales vs. Kindle Fire.

What content does HP have, though? How many years is HP behind in content delivery when compared to Amazon, Apple, and Google? Seems like a lot to me. The only thing that HP has that can match these companies is sales of PCs and peripherals. So, they are bundling the TP with the PC. That's the only thing that makes sense - and it doesn't make sense for very long.

Thank you! Finally, some sensible talk 'round these parts.

Reading this = reading Playboy. Two things I can look at and appreciate but things I will never have. :-(

i think they can't release it even if there are a ton of them sitting in warehouses because if they did, then they'd have to support them, which would be a further financial drain for a product they obviously want to discontinue.

Personally, I would pay big money for one of these. I love my Touchpad, but a smaller size with all these added features over the first TP, worth it.

Amazon is reviewing patents for HP webOS.

Read and wonder:
http://www.sys-con.com/node/2062957

Man, they just blew it. And all at the whim of some moron CEO. How is it that one crazy person can just flush such a great concept and company down the toilet like this? AND that there was NO ONE there at HP to tell him he was off the rails?

A serious case of "The Emperor Has NO Clothes"

Blame the emperor for not having any clothes.

Blame the yes-men surrounding him for not telling him.

They should release them. What sense does it make not to? They are already made which means they are already paid for. HP can recoup some of the money they lost on producing them. They can't do that if they simply throw them away. If they produced, lets say 100,000 of them, release 90,000 and keep 10,000 in reserve for warranty issues. They don't have to advertise because this site, WebOSRoundup, Engadget, and others will pretty much do it for them. Sell them at around $200 a piece. They have more storage space than the Fire, cameras, and a cellular radio. I'm sure AT&T wouldn't mine the new customers (on contract, of course). Limit the release to two per customer to cut down on the Ebay factor and they should go relatively fast. HP needs to also release a statement that they will continue to support the device for 1 full year.

The big news in the business world, today, is that Warren Buffet has been secretly accumulating IBM stock to the tune of $10 billion this year. It's his second largest holding. It made shares of IBM jump.

What does this have to do with HP? Well, IBM sold off its hardware business in favor of IT services a long time ago and this is the model that HP is trying to emulate. Buffet likes IBM because they can dominate certain kinds of high-margin IT services. They don't have to compete in the low-margin hardware business like HP currently does.

Some of you guys are fantasizing that HP is going to jump into mobile hardware just for the **** of it. Well, that ain't going to happen. The more that they look into how far behind they are in the consumer mobile space, the less likely they are to jump back in.

Dream on.

The problem is that IBM was setting up for that for years.. Way before the spin off lenovo was making the laptops, it was just branded with IBM logos.
That is the difference there was forethought and planning put in place for IBM's step back from the hardware business. Also by the time IBM sold off its hardware division to lenovo, Services and Software was already a majority of its income(WebSphere, Lotus Domino, DB2, AIX, Content Manager, Global Services). HP does not have that kind of software portfolio.

Agree. However, if HP is going to start pumping cash into righting itself, it certainly will not be by trying to compete in the consumer mobile space where they are even further behind than they are vs. IBM in the IT space.

Whatever HP decides to do with webOS, you can bet it won't be going after consumers. It simply would not make any sense whatsoever. Apple, Google, and Amazon have been cultivating this business for years, also.

Load them full of educational software - and give them away free to schools along with HP laptops.

BOOM - reputation restored!

Reputation for what? Mobile hardware that is usually given away?

Just a quick question. I see people posting that they are taking a loss if they sell the 32gb at say 300 and the 16gb at say 225, Does anyone have figures on how much it costs to make the touchpad. Once you have that figure then you can decide on what they would be taking a loss on or a profit on.

HP TouchPad Carries $318 Bill of Materials
July 6, 2011
ANDREW RASSWEILER
The 32GB version of Hewlett-Packard Co.’s new TouchPad media tablet carries a bill of materials (BOM) of $318, according to the preliminary results generated by the IHS iSuppli Teardown Analysis Service from information and analysis provider IHS (NYSE: IHS).

When the $10.00 manufacturing cost is added in, the total cost to produce the high-end version of the TouchPad increases to $328. The compares to a retail price of $599. The low-end 16GB version of the TouchPad carries a BOM of $296, for a total of $306 when the manufacturing cost is factored in. The retail price for this model is $499.00.

The table below presents the preliminary estimate of the TouchPad BOMs and manufacturing costs from the IHS iSuppli Teardown Analysis Service. Please note that the assessment accounts only for hardware costs and does not take into consideration other expenses such as software, licensing, royalties and other expenditures.

http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/HP-TouchPad-Carries-$318-Bill-of-Materials.aspx

and to think i was waiting to buy one of these at full price, but had to settle for a $99 regular TP :-( better than nothing, but posts like this just break my heart

Gah that thing looks beautiful, to bad I will never ever get to hold one. DAMN YOU TO **** HP

I still hold to the belief that a laptop + tablet + phone bundle would sell like crazy, especially if the os's were all integrated in such a way that they would follow on from one another (reminiscent of Joshua Topolsky's continuous client).

HP missed it.

It certainly might sell like crazy - among simultaneous buyers of notebook, tablets and smartphones.

I want one now!

7" TPgo would be perfect for reading medical docs and carrying in my white doctor's coat in the hospital. I prefer the aspect ratio of the TOUCHPAD/TPgo to widescreen, for reading.

Here's to hoping!

I agree that such tools must connect
HP got the concept right, but is incomplete with the execution
given all the resources they have garnered, I believe they can pull this off, perhaps better than any other company
The TP Go looks a winner
where can I pre-order one?
;-)

There are many webOS fans in China who are dying to get one of these. Unlike the current touchpad, GO has native Chinese language support, which made me doubt HP was planning to sell in Asia/China first, as 10 inch TP was never released in China, and has so support for Asian language so far. Too bad HP give up a 10000m race even before the first 400m is finished.

(sarcasm on)eh, "they were not breaking even", that's why, it is SO simple...(sarcasm off)

yeah, the whole "marathon" thing, they were expecting you running it by being carried in a palanquin by the... I don't know... peasants?

Who says these won't end up on a chinese web shop and later on eBay.

Yes, they should release it. And if they bundle it with a laptop, it will sell out in three minutes. LOL!!!

love to have a copy, thx

Just want a damn Pre3 on Sprint. Too much to ask.

Wonderful.

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That nonsense about turning HP into a software and services company was the failed vision of a guy who never should've been hired as the CEO in the first place. HP's board admitted that they didn't do any due diligence investigating the details of Apotheker's previous position at SAP. If they had, they'd have discovered that Within 7 months, he was ousted from the CEO position there, due to his lack of leadership skills, indecision, and clueless bungling. He barely lasted that long at HP. HP was leading the PC market until Apotheker's nonsense, indecision, and bungling made a laughing stock of HP. Now with this bundling nonsense, Whitman is making HP an even bigger joke. Maybe she'll come to her senses and sell this 7" Tablet, if they have built them and are sitting in a warehouse and maybe she'll have the good sense to NOT do this bundling nonsense again.

This week Google went and set the tech world abuzz by announcing their new Nexus7 tablet, the result of a partnership with ASUS. Recent success of Amazon’s Kindle Fire has given Google hope that the small screen, inexpensive tablet market is one worth pursuing. Anyone who has considered adding a tablet to their arsenal of tech gadgets but has balked at the price tag (or paltry performance of most low-end tablets) should take a second look at the Nexus 7. http://www.callnerds.com/sacramento/