Touchstone v2 will communicate its identity, probably isn't NFC | webOS Nation
 
 

Touchstone v2 will communicate its identity, probably isn't NFC 28

by Derek Kessler Fri, 18 Feb 2011 9:40 pm EST

During the Think Beyond presentation, HP SVP Jon Rubinstein mentioned that devices like the HP Veer, Pre 3, and TouchPad would be context-aware of which Touchstone charge they were sitting on and what Exhibition behavior you wanted. We were puzzled by this, and were assured it wasn’t through GPS. Turns out the FCC filing for the Veer may have spoiled some of the magic.

As Rod Whitby of WebOS Internals uncovered, the Veer’s integrated Touchstone coils operate at the frequencies of 118.5KHz and 3.1MHz. That’s a lot of juice, but it’s curious that there are two frequencies at play here. Enter Joe Sacher, webOS community member and oscilloscope owner and operator. Mr. Sacher sat down and put the oscilloscope to work on his first-generation Touchstone, finding that its magical inductive charging voodoo operated at a frequency around 122KHz.

That identifies the 118.5KHz frequency of the Veer back as being the charging coils, and then there’s the question of the much higher frequency 3.1MHz coil. What’s that for? It was epiphany time: that’s a communication coil, and it’s how the Veer identifies which Touchstone it’s on. Reasonable speculation and conjecture follows that a Touchstone v2 dock would have a similar 3.1MHz coil to facilitate that communication, thus identifying which charger it is. Before you get fearful about that stockpile of Touchstones you have scattered about your daily existence, Sacher reasons that the old and new charging frequencies are close enough together that they should be interoperable, though older devices on new Touchstones won’t be able to receive the identifying communiqués, and new devices on old Touchstones won’t have anything to listen to.

We spoke with HP at Mobile World Congress and confirmed all of the above (minus the specific frequency stuff): There will be a new version of the Touchstone and while everything will charge everything else (excepting the TouchPad Touchstone and the TouchPad, natch), only the new Touchstones and the Pre 3 and Veer will be able to handle the location-specific Exhibition feature. We asked if this Touchstone identity technology was Near Field Communication (NFC) and the answer was no - an answer that makes sense given that NFC uses a 13.56MHz radio frequency.

While we wonder why HP decided against NFC for the Tap-to-Share functionality from TouchPad to Phone, we're also wondering why no Tap-to-Share from phone to phone? Android phones will soon be able to use NFC and Bluetooth for peer-to-peer sharing.

In any case, the new Touchstones weren't yet on display either at Think Beyond or at Mobile World Congress, so you have new another product from HP to look forward to in the coming months.

28 Comments

Another question is - will the new touchstones have a USB input that has the data lines enables to support synching to the PC over the "data touchstones"?

May not be as quick, but perfectly feasible now.

Interesting thought, but not unless they completely redefined how the TS works. Since a current TS requires the data line on the USB cord to show power so that the TS will turn on to charge.

As I have described before, this has nothing to do with the TS or the cable, but it is in the charging source (whatever the power plug is).

I would think for a USB data link, you would need two cords, one for power and the other for data. Although, 3.1 MHz radio frequency isn't really high enough to replicate anything but slow serial port speeds. So I doubt the "wireless USB cord" is going to happen.

LOL... I just wrote about the NFC issue in this post:
http://forums.precentral.net/general-webos-chat/276245-thoughts-after-th...

Great article Derek...

but i just ordered a touchstone on monday . . . . .

They will still charge Pre3 and Veer. Just won't do anything extra.

Me too :/ Oh, well. Maybe someone will write a patch/app for the phone:

If phone on touchstone: Get GPS coordinates

Do coodinates match predefined locations? (aka work or home)?
Set exhibition mode to work|home.

I wish I can do this :-) lol

I just hope they make one for the car. Sure you can rig one in your vehicle now but it'd be sweet if we had an OEM solution

Same here. I just want to buy a Touchstone to place on my windshield or dashboard without the need to do any DIY stuff.

great work Joe and Derek and Dieter, thanks

I knew webOS was a bet when I took it, but I figured it would either pay off by having a really good ecosystem for years to come or it would fail and I'd have to switch. What HP has done here is in the middle - I got screwed as an early adopter.

So much time, effort, and money went into my Pre-, only to find out I won't be getting the 2.x update, Adobe Flash, an update on Sprint in June, and the two Touchstones I bought aren't fully functional with the new system!

Is there ANY long-term perk to having supported webOS up till now?

Having used a great OS? I definitely agree that webOS 1.4.5 is getting long in the tooth now but it was a great phone + OS when it came out.

Would you have preferred a different phone when you bought it originally (i.e. iPhone 3GS, a G1, Hero, Magic, etc)?

What have G1, Hero, Magic or 3GS owners got going for themselves these days? The only thing they really have is apps they've purchased, their cases or accessories don't work with the current gen phones these days either.

Why does HP/Palm have to be held to a higher standard?

Couldn't agree more. I cannot tell you how many iPod and iDevices I have had to get new cases/cables/docking ports/stereo docking ports (iHome devices for instance)... every time Apple comes out with a new updated device, some peripheral no longer works. Oh, the connector is the same, but thats about it most of the time.

Unfortunately with these types of devices, there is a limited up-gradability to them. My just over one year-old Archos 5 tablet? No more Android updates for it. If I want to run the new OS, I have to buy a new unit. And none of the add-ons work with the new one.

How about my Nokia n810 tablet pc? Nope, no Maemo 5 for it...

It's unfortunate, but this is often just the case for these small devices. Built-in obsolescence.

i don't think it's being held to a higher standard. it just doesn't have apps and features other platforms have to keep people happy. Those apps they have going for them is plenty from my standpoint. The OS is only a big deal to the techies.

Would you have preferred a different phone when you bought it originally? Well actually yes. At the time i wanted an iphone. like the guy above i gambled that pre would match it. It just hasn't.But even in hindsight i wish i had gone hero or G1 or something because i'd have the apps and if i had actually gotten the g1 i'd be out of contract by now and free to switch phones and carriers and not locked into sprint.

"coming months".. as in 24 months?

Everything will be useless if HP continue to sell smartphones and tablet with old and outdated hardware and always too late...
:-(

no nfc. sad

technically its NFC as its using the magnetic(near field) rather than electric(far field) field to communicate. A efficient far field antenna at that frequency would be huge. The communication protocol is probably proprietry rather than conforming to an NFC standard though.

wow, the Pre2 can't use this and it just went on sale here? That's crazy, it's all mixed up in WebOS land.

Well this hasn't released yet... so the Pre2 releasing before this technology isn't really that odd/crazy at all.

I thought NFC would be related to Monday Night Football?

My question is: what's the damage?, i.e., how much are these new Touchstones going to cost?! It better not be the $60 they charged for the original when it came out!! (How about free with the device and less than $20 for extra units, HP, given all you've put us through?!)

When I first tried to get a Touchstone, they were like $70 at my Sprint store.
That was too much, and I waited.
Then I saw either Verizon or AT&T were giving them away with the new phones. What?!
Not only that, but when I finally got one for ~$14, I still had to go out and buy the back for it for ~$9.

I understand that they cost something, but $70 is crazy; especially when you have to spend extra on the phone back.

I hope all future webOS products come Touchstone-ready.

The three announced products (Pre3, Veer, TouchPad) all have Touchstone-compatible backs. In fact the back don't appear to be user-replaceable at all (nor the batteries underneath them).

I see a lot of speculation here. You and find the sam 3.1 MHz band listed in the FCC filings for the original TS covers for the Pixi and the Pre, so take from that what you will.

Also, in the FCC reports for the Veer, the part number for the TouchStone used in testing is Palm's part number for the original TS.

I would speculate that the capability for communication between the TS and the phone existed from the beginning. In fact, there is mention inf the FCC reports that the phone communicates with the TS to tell it when to stop charging.

So it is my opinion that the old TouchStones will work for location aware devices, and that the only thing preventing older devices from being location aware is software.

NFC chips are sensitive. For example, if you have two NFC chips used for payment on a smart card the reader will get confused and prevent the transmission. Since the most logical use for NFC will be mobile payments (see the telecom venture Isis) my guess is that the wanted to derisk the devices for a propraitery purpose.

Also might have to do with the distance and penetration of the device with NFC communication. You are not putting the devices coil to coil as you would on a TouchStone. You have one device's coil one the back side and still communicate.

I haven't looked into the technical details of NFC much, so I don't know the practical distance of reliable communication for it.

Only small correction to your article, Derek. There should be only one coil in each device, because the coils are resonant antennas at both 118.5 KHz and 3.08 MHz. So a single coil handles both communication frequencies.

But great job translating my geek speak to normal talk. :)